V5 was a failurewod is better dead
Bloodline 2's failure isn't just due to V5.But yeah, it probably contributed.
>>97707554>The Swedish firm admit that the game missed it "commercial expectations"That's pretty sad given that the expectations cannot possibly have been that great to begin with.
>>97707608they would need negative expectations
>>97707598I don't think v5 had anything to do with bloodlines 2's failure, it mostly has to do with the fact that they took years and years and years to release a really shitty game that really only shared a name with it's predecessor.
>>97707554This is what happens when you listen to cancel culture.
>>97707642Explain, in detail, why cancel culture made bloodlines 2 a disappointment.
>>97707554>wod is better deadI feel like WoD was just too tied to the countercultural zeitgeist of the 90's. They had a chance to revitalize the brand for the 2000's, but missed their mark, and now there's just no point to the idea of some secret, shadowy world of monsters. Reality's far worse while being far more banal.
>>97707554>deadDude it's a collection of books. No one has done jack shit to mine. They're on my shelf, I've got dice and my friends and I play them sometimes. Fuck everything released after 2004--who the hell needs it or cares? It's a book. Get a copy. New things don't matter.
>>97707608Bloodlines is a beloved game people still play today. I think the expectations were probably sky-high. it was anticipated for years.I have no idea how they fucked it up so monstrously. Give me VtM Skyrim. That's all you had to fucking do to sell three bazillion copies and have an active modding scene that'd keep the game alive for the next twenty fucking years.
>>97707688>It's a book. Get a copy.old editions are not printed anymore sub 10 iq cocksucker!
>>97707688But I must consooooom! How can I plan a game if new books aren't constantly being released for it?
>>97707656Cancelling the first version and re-starting the developloment from scratch wasted time, effort, budget, and goodwill of the potential customer base that were then sorely missing in the final product.
>>97707693V20 is readily available.
>>97707696What does that have to do with cancel culture, aside from the word "cancel" being involved?
>>97707693A. PDFs are freeB. Print-on-demand reprints are maybe $40C. Ebay has plenty originals for about $60
>>97707698v20 can fucking blow me. What a god damn abomination.>Here's literally every option and clan derivative ever released in the countless splats that drove the brand into the ground in the first fucking place, presented as if having them all as player options wasn't exactly the fucking problem
>>97707702Isn't cancel culture all about canceling things?
>>97707634While I agree that its failure is more tied to story being retarded and written by woke faggots, reducing clan uniqueness and general blandness of the setting is definitely tied with V5 retardation.
>>97707690you said fuck everything released after 2004, but v20 was released in 2011. get your facts straight cocksucker
>>97707554V5 had nothing to do with killing the WOD, the absolutely medicore vidya game did, take it from me, a faggot that actually bought and played it.
>>97707712And I also said "v20 can fucking blow me." No idea why you think I like V20. I hate it.
>>97707711I think if it had the gameplay that people wanted, it still could have been exactly what bloodlines was, a solid 3.5 game. It's like the anon up thread said, if it was vampire Skyrim in Seattle, even to a lesser degree, people would have been all over it. Instead it's a railroad with shitty gameplay and a horrible character switching mechanic.
>>97707717apologies anon that was for this guy >>97707698
>>97707703>This chair making company is dead>"No it isn't! My chair is still in my room!">I mean you can't buy chairs from them anymore>"Well you can make your own chair with the same design or buy second hand chairsWhat are you fucking blithering on about you room temperature IQ mid wit. What is with arguments these days boiling down to one of the parties just pretending to be retarded until the other person gives up as they can't be bothered to explain basic concepts to the pretend (or real) retard.
>>97707656Culture war bullshit made and shaped V5. This has been already talked plenty of times so hit the archives and inform yourself instead of dramabeg on this thread.>>97707707Can I ask what specific parts of V20 you don't like? I've been hearing it was a pretty decent face wash without so much retardation included in it. And what's your favorite edition of the game then.
>>97707759As much as you people bitch and complain about v5, it's a successful game. It keeps getting releases, the core book is in probably it's fourth or fifth printing. The ttrpg being something you don't like, and the videogame eating shit are two unrelated things, and the fact that you cannot parse that is the reason why you're always going to be a deeply unhappy person
>>97707741Ah. To clarify, I said >>97707688 and >>97707707The anon advocating V20 is someone else. I hate V20. I've been playing VtM since the 90s and, for me, what killed it was the End Times splats. All the mysteries were revealed. All the rumors confirmed or denied. There wasn't anything magical or occult or mysterious left in the setting. The history of vampires started out being as occult as the masquerade was supposed to make vampires themselves be. And then they wrote it into the ground, exploring every inch of the setting until there was no mystery left.>>97707752TTRPGs are games you play with your friends from rules you read in books, anon. They aren't chairs you sit in. You read the books, then play the game together. If you can still read the books, the game hasn't gone anywhere--you have.>>97707759Was typing an answer to this as you asked! I prefer 2nd edition honestly, but Revised fixed some of the fuck-ups in the rules, so Revised is what we play. My problem w/ V20 is that it takes at face value that all the splats were true, all the mysteries are revealed, and here's a compact edition you can have every answer in. Our current game is set in 1915 and I was very clear that the only material they should assume is true is what's in the Revised rulebook. We're rewriting the rest. And the chronicle is about the rise of Pentex and their weary participation in it. It's been hella fun, so far.
>>97707759His problem with V20 seems pretty clear:>Here's literally every option and clan derivative ever released in the countless splats that drove the brand into the ground in the first fucking place, presented as if having them all as player options wasn't exactly the fucking problemIn other words, his problem is that he cannot comprehend just saying to his players "by the way, core Camarilla clans only" or "I'm not gonna allow combination Disciplines" or the like at the start of a Chronicle. He imagines that players will revolt and scream bloody murder if not allowed to be able to play Baali or True Brujah or whatever.Now, players who act like that - and Storytellers who let them - are indeed a problem. But that's a problem with them, not the game. The game is not bad for providing options.TL;DR - Anon is retarded.
>>97707783Or I can just use an edition that doesn't present all the bullshit in the first place, dipshit.>Well use this one and just tell them to ignore this half of itIs a stupid solution, when the other thing that doesn't have it in the first place exists (and has better art).
>>97707752The worst part is that is not even true. The core rulebooks for classic editions are not available for print on demand because companies need to push their latest shitty product.
>>97707690>Bloodlines is a beloved game people still play today. I think the expectations were probably sky-high.Not once gameplay details started to emerge...
>>97707794But does it have rules tweaks and fixes?
>>97707804V20? Yes, it has rule changes. That I don't want. Your argument that I should use V20 and just alter it, instead of using the version that doesn't need altering, is absurd.
>>97707688Well yeah it's not a problem if you're never going to play it with anyone outside of the four people you know (until they get busy or die) and/or refuse to engage with any other fans, but for the rest of people who are not retards and understand we're part of a broader ecosystem, it's a bad thing.
>>97707795It's actually only vampire that doesn't have POD for 2nd or Revised edition, all the other WoD game lines have a PoD option. Pretty annoying.
>>97707771Having read both Revised and 2nd edition I agree that the best game produced by white wolf are in the line of second edition.>what killed it was the End Times splats.The problem I think is that by the year End Times dropped VtM and WoD got captured by people who hated the game. They saw themselves above the nerds they were working for. > I've been playing VtM since the 90sYou seem reasonable so let me ask you some questions.When did you start to notice things went wrong with VtM? You just keep playing until ET or you were getting angry before that? What changes specifically got you feed up with the game?What was the reaction of other players around this time?What were your favorite books and parts of VtM before the whole shitshow went down?Your other favorite splats and why?
>>97707837Hahaha. You're a moron. Two of my players had never touched it before, but were interested in VtM. You think what, that they said "well I don't wanna play if you're not using V20 because Anon on 4chan likes that edition best!" Please. You're a bufoon. Like what you like but it has fuck all to do with other people.
>>97707846He never made a claim that your players weren't retards, anon. Your group fits perfectly within his proposed system, silly as it is.
>>97707771>game is set in 1915 and I was very clear that the only material they should assume is true is what's in the Revised rulebookVampire game overlapping WW1 sounds interesting but having to build all the lore and keeping track how historical events reflect in the supernatural (and vice versa) must have been a lot of work.
>>97707871>Well I'll call you names if you don't like MY favorite editionThat's nice little buddy. Isn't it about your nap time?
>>97707843>You just keep playing until ET or you were getting angry before that?I'm not really angry--just being hyperbolic on 4chan 'cuz it's kinda how we are. I don't know when, specifically. At the time that those were coming out, we never played them. We'd already had a long-running chronicle going. I don't think I even read them until a few years after the series was complete. I think it was the release of Demon that really made me feel "they wrote too much."
>>97707875I am obsessed w/ San Francisco in 1915 (the World's Fair) which is the setting we're playing in. So I know most of the history that's relevant pretty well. Here are the four jewels from the World's Fair's tower of jewels (the building in this photo) that are on my bookshelf. I love it very much and the whole chronicle is just an excuse for me to play in it.
>>97707815>That I don't wantEven when they make the game objectively better?
>>97707982So far you've tried calling me names and now are pretending that your value judgements are "objective facts." Anon if you wanna talk about VtM and the different editions, I'm interested. But I'm not interested in babysitting you.
>>97707937Yeah, I'd imagine it takes so much dedication there might be a reason beyond just wanting to run a game in that particular year. Convergence at display of world's grandeur and America's prosperity while most of Europe keeps busy marching into machine gun fire sounds like good place for vampiric shenanigans.
>>97707937>>97707887>>97707769Cope harder faggots, it's shit and people like Galliard Group and Dice Scum keep exposing this hollow husk of a game
>>97708060Sounds lame
>>97708377>Can't follow thread>Doesn't know what he's trying to insult>Plugs some "content creator" blah-blahShill elsewhere?
>>97707666>I feel like WoD was just too tied to the countercultural zeitgeist of the 90'sThere is indeed something deeply sad about the edgy, bomb-a-logging camp version of white wolf assimilate and become corporate safe-neolib white wolfMajor sellout vibes
>>97707554yes but fucking christ what did you expect, the edgy dudes who wrote the first version were replaced by infinite jewish lesbians
>>97708919The failure of bloodlines and V5 has nothing, at all, to do w/ your "wokeness" bogeyman. The design mistakes were structural--not content.
>>97709006They have to propagate the stupid "go woke go broke" nonsense because their cultural bosses told them to.
>>97708580Nope lol
>>97709006>>97709186Go back to /co/umblr
>>97708678They always were, see the morality tracks.
>>97709351>Reee you don't belong in my safespace if you don't agree with me!Eat a dick.
>>97707843>VtM and WoD got captured by people who hated the gameSo the original writers? They used dots instead of numbers because numbers are too gamey
>>97707841Huh. What a stupid, petty move. I hope it doesn't spread to the other games.(As a side, those hardback core POD prices are, adjusted for inflation, cheaper than buying the Revised cores back in the day. It's like if they were only $16.)
>>97709595What's bizarre is a lot of vampire revised and 2nd edition sourcebooks *are* available for PoD. It's always mystifying to me what publishers keep in POD and don't. Like, if c7 put Dark Heresy 2nd edition as a PoD, even if it was 80 or a 100 dollars, it would go best seller immediately.
>roses are red>violets are blue>if Nazis aren’t welcome>neither are you!
>>97709618I mean kinkos and officedepot exist. Everything is print on demand.
>>97709623>nazi seething againlol
>>97707696Pfft, ehehehe
>>97709618Only a lot of revised stuff is available on PoD. Most of them aren't for 2e.
>>97710070>my product failed b-but it's you that is seething!lol!
>>97710200>unprompted seething>get laughed at for it>YOU ARE A DEVELOPER OF THE GAMElol, what a retard
>>97710222>product fails>laugh at failed product>REEEEEE NAZI!!!!!!!lol!
>>97710261>Seethes nazis aren't welcome>continues to seethe when made fun of for itlol, gave up on me being a developer already, eh?
