>>97714256
Some of AOS'S stuff does get tagged under fantasy instead, but also some stuff just doesnt get registered under r34. Thinking about it I never really even had a r34 account myself. Damn, thats a thought.

>>97714256
it was world of warcraft for an audience that liked Warhammer.

Is this all gay shit?

>>97715120
Unfortunately no

>>97714256
-It's a young setting
-It fucking sucks
-3/4 of the AOS characters are uninteresting

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>>97714256

It's a bunch of shifting and overlapping planes which means anyone can fight anyone and you can add in new factions whenever you feel like it. But it also feels like there's no stakes, especially since the Sigmarines literally respawn when they die.

Whereas the WHFB world has a sense of logic and consequences. The battles matter. If Ulthuan falls the High Elves are doomed. If the Border Princes are overrun suddenly enemies could attack Bretonnia and the Empire from the South. The Wood Elves mostly live in Athel Loren and have learned to manipulate their Bretonnian neighbors. You get the idea.

>>97714256
Does AoS have any major characters outside of its gods?

>>97714256
I have Flick and Mossacannibalism fatigue.

>>97714256
The name alone immediately makes people think of WHF, the aesthetics make people think of Warcraft, and the game makes people think of 40k.

>>97714256
No video games.

>>97715546
This is the crux of the issue, no secondaries
As shrimple as that really

>>97714256
Using any of the rule 34.pheal's as an estimate makes for shit estimate.
Pending on what site it is the images are most likely scraped from more competent archive site like e6, .dan and other art sites where you don't need an account to see porn, which often means art that doesn't really have anything to do with Warhammer say from a logo on a characters shirt or some crude stickmen on bases in the background gets added, often it's not even porn or rule 34 of the franchise but it's just there cause the scraper went by the tag.
There is also a significant amount of cannibalism and regurgitation between the different r34.pheals as the do actively scrape from eachother adding duplicates nobody really bothers to clean up cause there is no real community on these sites say from teens and spergs posting anonymously on in the comments.

Also goes without saying that a lot of the characters from fantasy is featured in AoS, so an AoS character can be tagged on both fantasy and AoS or just in fantasy cause who's keeping check?

>>97715330
Extremely retarded and nogames pilled.
In WHFB everyone fought everyone. The authors got tired of having to have stupider and stupider justifications for it. The fact that you don't know this shows the sort of secondary you are

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>>97715546
???

>>97715870
You completely misunderstood his post, making me question if English is your first language.

>>97714256
(You)

>>97715885
This game is actually brilliant in that literally everything they did was wrong except for graphics.
They picked the most boring factions possible, the most boring realm possible, tried to make it more 'tabletop accurate' with gameplay that doesn't work for real-time. The devs had neber even made an RTS before, they're Park Sim devs.
This is like if they made a new Dawn of War except the factions available were Marines, Genestealer Cults, Leagues of Votann, and World Eaters.
Being tied to AoS was the least of the game's issues.

>>97715927
It really was kind of a mess wasn't it. 2003 tier gameplay in 2023, and marketed to consoles to boot.
I think it says a lot that the only thing this game is remembered for is "being that one failed aos game"
Kind of a shame too because it did have a good amount of polish etc just in all the wrong places.

>>97714256
Only people who like Age of Shitmar have a scat fetish, so no.

>>97715587
Mega cope

>>97716192
I'm a coomer not a sigmar fan you obnoxious normie.

>>97715889
The point that had any relevance was the everyone fighting everyone.
The 'consequences' bit is peak retardation. Oh do you think they are going to kill off the high elves? Or ever let the Empire lose? Or permanently kill a model they are selling?
Of course not. They literally only did that shit when they killed the game, and even then, it took another seven years for them to finally say 'ok you can't use every single model from WHFB in AoS anymore'

>>97716437
> Self proclaimed coomer
Maybe it's time to kys

>>97714256
It's just Warhammer fantasy but gay and cringe

Any of it's cool elements are carried over from WHF

AoS suffers from the same issue that post 8th edition 40k suffers: Everything interesting is just taken from older editions(WH fantasy) Name a single good/interesting thing AoS has done that isn't just lifted from WH fantasy

>>97714256
They set fire to their own fandom by killing WHFB, made a game nobody wanted in a setting that reminded everyone who may have an interest in playing it that they killed WHFB for this.

True 5D chess move.

>>97714256
The setting is lame as fuck

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>>97717274
I quite like the ghosts

>>97717491
The Undead armies I wish were put in fantasy. Probably the best part of AOS

>>97716463
"Kiss your sister"? Based.
Also AoS is just a worse Fantasy with ~representation~ so there's no point to caring.

>>97715329
It's 10 years old bro

>>97714256
Most of the stuff in AoS that people would want to fuck (e.g. skaven, lizardmen) would just get classified under Fantasy
The only thing AoS has is like the centaur vampire lady and the giant psychic cat

>>97716463
You're on 4chan

>>97714256
No one wants to see a fat ugly gorilla mystery meat xir with clothes on, let alone naked.

>>97717821
There's been a big tend in the last 5-6 years not-really-rightoids who goon constantly to furry porn and cuck porn larping as anti-porn puritans.

>>97718066
Dont go on /gif/ then

>>97717652
first two editions don't count

>>97714256
Nu-GW can plunder the annals of yester year all they like.

They took out a lot of the nitty-gritty from their rules, their model kits are overdesigned mostly monopose shelf-warmers, and they killed their own Original Ur-Setting in a fit of pique, only to scramble up it's remains into a "flesh golem" that just stands around awkwardly reminding everybody of what was butchered to make it.

>>97718514
95% of the setting for 40k that has made it such a huge success was locked down in 2nd edition and it found it solidified it's aesthetic in 3ed, you can't build on a foundation of sand.

>>97717812
the warcry cat is pretty sex

>>97715587
It also allows AI stuff unlike the other sites you mentioned so stuff regularly gets bloated by some retard dumping the giant pile of near-identical slop he generated.

>>97714256
I think it’s because it’s easier to grasp fighting for your country and lord or fighting for your homeworld and Emperor than fighting for whatever is worth anything in AoS.

>>97722267
You are everything wrong with this hobby. Why do you think people have to "relate" to a faction in order to enjoy them?

>>97714256
It's because fantasy square plate pushers hated that their factions were deleted and diverged into another game, nulling all their progress and feeling deleted in general

mistrust that they will do it again made it hard to fork over cash for the 'new shiny thing' and they indeed make shit temporary there too, power creep included

now that 3d printing is a staplemark we can conclude that we're in the golden age of GW reduction and we can watch the fireworks from our front porch

>this is a pure 40k dude that knows this shit because of WHfantasy friends

You think the primaris-ifying marines was bad. Imagine being a vampire counts fantasy bro.

>>97714256
It's a silly setting

>>97715330
Yeah, it's this, I agree with all of it. I also think that WHF is smaller in scale which lets people to underand and appreciate it better and more easily.
Since when you start introducing "planes" and "dimensions", it just gets really messy.
And I think other thing that make WHF more popular is that it does take heavy inspiration from real life, like look at this map itself. It's the wrong word, but only way I can describe WHF factions is that they are "relatable", like Bretonnia it's basically a fantasy amalgamation of medieval England and France and it is very easy to picture that.

Unlike in AoS where you have lumineth realm lords, stormcast hammer shakers and whatever else. AoS feels tacky and I can't take it seriously. Especially the "world maps" they've shown which are all basically some random garbage that you'd come up with as a 6 year old "the death ghost chasm", "blood volcanoes".

And finally I can say that WHF getting killed off by GW, only to then get replaced by AoS just left a really bad taste in people's mouths, and that stigma and animosity still exists.
Also doesn't help that End Times was also pretty hated as well because it ended the entire WHF world in a shitty way, but since GW also just completely killed off the Warhammer World, you can't even go back to it.
Unless they do some timeline shenannigans saying
>"in X timeline the Warhammer World is destroyed and it continues into AoS"
>"in Y timeline the Warhammer World survivers the End Times and beats back the Chaos Gods and their forces, letting world persist on despite the apocalypse that happened"
I wouldn't mind seeing the Y timeline version, seeing how all the empires and kingdoms of WHF would rebuild and resulting conflicts from power vacuums and nation states shattering would be cool to see.

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>>97722761
>mistrust that they will do it again made it hard to fork over cash for the 'new shiny thing'
Not really, aos as a game was succesful from like 2016 onwards, more so than fantasy had been for years.
The thing is that being a succesful tabletop game doesn't mean shit when it comes to cultural relevance. Age of sigmar doesn't vidya to help it get known amongst "normies" like total war did for fantasy or dawn of war and recently space marine did for 40k.
I know it's >reddit, but taking a look at subreddit activity for example, the one for warhammer fantasy has about 1.5k contributions a week, the one for specifically total war warhammer has 4.9k, the same again for the generic total war one.
40k's generic subreddit barely gets more activity (16k) than the one for specifically space marine 2 (14k), a game that's 2 years old by now. 40k's subreddit isn't just tabletop related either, it's also for discussing the "lore" and the books and whatever the fuck.
(Aos' oscillates between 2.5 and 3k for comparison)
Even after the absolute explosion of 40k and to an extent tabletop in general, the entirety of 40k barely manages to edge out one (1) whole videogame in terms of discussion activity.
Tabletop remains very very niche, and unless aos gets a game that doesn't flop immediately it will remain niche, no matter how well it may or may not do in the miniature wargaming market.

>>97722746
Obviously if it’s understood what a faction fights for and why it fights for it, it’s easier to get invested in them and “role play” your dudes being a part of them or opposing them.

>>97715870
The "Stupider and stupider justifications" only become a problem if you write the factions too lilywhite.

In my lifetime, it was known that the High Elves used to sink Empire ships that looked to be approaching Ulthuan, or crossing the sea to Lustria, and that Humans were greatly desirous of the wealth of the Dwarfs, and that the Dwarfs themselves had avarices of their own, and that their books of grudges also had entries fingering their nominal allies.

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>>97722885
>Not really, aos as a game was succesful from like 2016 onwards, more so than fantasy had been for years.
two years are also years
>Age of sigmar doesn't vidya to help it get known amongst "normies" like total war did for fantasy or dawn of war and recently space marine did for 40k.
AoS have WoW

>>97722746
>Why do you think people have to "relate" to a faction in order to enjoy them?
Because thats how it works?

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>>97715546
as much as fa/tg/uys seethe and screech about their super secret club, secondaries buying space marine 2 or listening podcasts about the colour of fulgrim's toenails are what is really keeping GW afloat and lucrative. a bunch of smelly nerds coasting their 40s playing with action figures in their basement are NOT the target audience.

>>97724233
Maybe so, but those "Smelly Nerds" are the stock that comprises the generative power of the hobby.
The reason they are "Smelly nerds" is because they neglect the other aspects of their live, in order to build the spiralling passion-projects that provide fuel that drives the organic interest.

The loretubers worth their meagre salt are all grogs, as are the people who make the impressive dioramas.

The more you freeze out the "Smelly nerds" the more the magic goes away.
Because "The Smell" is a byproduct of magic being made.

Corporate properties burn themselves out by overextending.
Like the expansionist empires of yesteryear.
The smelly nerds are the only ones left after the fad dies down.

And when you chase away all the smelly nerds, you are sabotaging your own longevity, or the chance to blossom again after the inevitable winter.

Short-termism is the death of all projects that court public investment.

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>>97724171
>two years are also years
They sure are

>>97715509
How much do you jerk it to their stuff??

>>97724983
Flick is a disgusting russo, but mossa is based.

>AoS is just Warhammer but with changes everyone hates, apart from the target audience who still doesn't give a shit because it's not actually 40k
>Why does it have no cultural relevance?
What does it have that isn't inherited from Warhammer? Sigmarines, and they're shit.

>>97714256
Here is TRVKE Fantasy (and 40k as well) is also mostly written poorly.
However unlike AoS WHFB and 40k had short period of time when GW wasn't obsessed with controlling every single piece of their IP and bending it towards selling models and some decent writters were allowed to work on the lore (most of the good parts of both settings comes from tabletop RPGs, side games or addons to the main game).

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>>97714256
No one, especially AoS players, give a shit about the fluff of AoS.
It doesn't help AoS figures have more bullshit on them making them more annoying to draw.

>>97714256
All I'm getting from this is OP is big mad there's not more images of Big Black Stormcasts plowing his waifu

Warhammer already had limited enough identity that people looking from the outside have trouble seeing any difference between it and generic fantasy. Tossing it out for a new setting is an easy way to have bad blood right off the bat.
So you've lost some of your existing fanbase, how about the new guys you wanna snag? What's the hook for AoS? Looks like Warhammer, but there's some changes we can put front and centre! We got Space Marines (but no guns or tanks... nobody into tacticool army men care about the gear, though, right?) and we got some multidimensional shit. Nobody hates Dota, do they? Now we've got our STRONG identity that clearly has oodles of appeal unlike the old smelly grognard shit we're dumpstering, we need a real solid name. How about Age of Sigmar? Sounds like all those fantasy books I see in the airport bookshop but have never heard of anyone reading!

All this, and the result is people who aren't Warhammer fans still see "that generic fantasy version of 40k" and people who are into Warhammer are still mad because of either Stormcasts, their armies being squatted, or End Times.

>>97715927
>nighthaunt
>most boring faction
WUT

>>97715330
Its a shame cause it kinda great for fan creations in the way 40k can be. You just say this is my region of this realm and its basicly like a planet or a system. I kind of have this idea since there are supposed to be minor realms of creating a self contained setting where things do matter more because, you know what little sub realms connect to one another because there is only 2 to 5 gates tops. If realm blank falls you know the implications of that.

>>97736666
That's the best way to make something meaningful of it, clearly.
But also I'd dispense with this Named Canon Character malarkey that just kills the "Your Guys" vibe that makes your force personal.

>>97714256
>there's more R34 of Primarchs than all aos stuff
lol, lmao even

>>97717652
Out of 10!

>>97737004
Who is the most popular primarch? My guess is Magnus or Sanguinius.
I dont think its not Fulgrim because its too obvious and half his body is a snake now for some reason.

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>>97714256
>TOWddlers judge how good something is by how much porn it has
lmao, truly these children are brainrotted beyond repair, but what else can you expect from furries?

>>97737016
I decided to count them
Lion 31
Fulgrim 121
Perturabo 46
Khan 12
Russ 55
Dorn 105
Curze 68
Sanguinius 92
Ferrus 51
Angry Ron 33
Guilliman 117
Mortarion 33
Magnus 177
Lorgar 29
Vulkan 23
Corvus Corax 39
Alpharius 26
Omegon 17

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>>97715330
>The battles matter
Evidently not, since you throw a tanty about the End Times and the consequences thereof. TOWdders don't care about the "logic and consequences" they use as a post-facto justification for their mental illness, they just care that TOW is in the video games they play and AOS isn't, therefore AOS bad.

>>97737076
I knew it, the galaxy shall kneel in front of BMC!

The thing that surprised me the most was that I disliked them killing off fantasy and my Bretonnians, and then got back into total war right at that time when TWW launched on my potato laptop. Then in 2020 got into arguments with fags on the TWW forums because I said sigmar was shit andn couldn't believe anyone liked it. Then I realized it was trannies, sigmarxists, redditors and sunk-cost ultrapaypigs who desperately want gw to constantly release new thing to buy who were into it. Not really my kind of people. I don;t care now, but the fanbase it developed was purely current thing abominations and consoomers who refuse to take a step back and ask why they need a refresh for a refresh so they can spend another 300 bucks.

>>97715330
some of the army names also make no sense on this same logic
>cities of sigmar
would imply great, long settled capitals and metropolises. I know they have some, but the concepts clash with each other- the infinite realmzone that doesn't matter, and the fixed cities that do matter.

>>97737124
also since consoomers love to post
>YOU'RE JUST POOR
I have over 6 figures in assets/cash/investments I just don't want to blow it all on fucking plastic lmao.

>>97737070
The actual worst part about this is that GWiggers will never put out an ARABY army with Southlanders (negros) because they're too busy putting female negros in the Empire for some insane reason.

>>97737089
Lol the cope. The end times is literally them ignoring the consequences of their own grand narrative game Storm of Chaos. You cant pretend like WHFB fans are ignoring consequences when our actual consequences were reconnecting completely and your setting is literally built upon the idea that nothing matters

>>97736989
You know, I kinda wanna put together. That sort of mini setting for fans. It will not even be that hard to justify. Aos has lore about how before the fall of the age of myth the dwarves have the ability to create mini realms to harvest resources out of.

>Some ancient Karak prospers under realm craft
>Creates a device that can constantly produce new sub realms and the gates between them to harvest or colonize.
>Chaos begins invading mortal realms
>Dwarves gather all the refugees they can and to stop it from being found taken they yeet it into one of its its own sub realm.
>There is now, no way in or out of the system.
>The machine is damaged in this process.
>locks the realm it's in away, but keeps producing new ones.
>No one's controlling what it makes any more, things get weird sometimes.
>Spirial galaxy of chained together realms with new ones always appearing coreward
>gates flicker cause broken machine for centuries.
>Groups isolated for generations
>Gates suddenly open again.
>oh shit race to conquer is on.

>>97737124
>>97737131
>TOWddler admits he has never touched a mini in his life and his "love of brettonians who I totally wanted to support and buy honest" came entirely from TWW
lmao, it's every stereotype rolled into one post

>>97724233
>afloat
Worth more than the UK fishing industry.
t. America Fisherman

>>97737355
I have bretonnians, ogres, wood elves, the dwarfs and goblins from battle of blackfire pass etc. and some new tomb kings stuff, most of that I bought in 2009.

You are a faggot. You are everything wrong with /tg/ and warhammer now.

>>97737342
kek dwarf webway would be better than what they ended up doing with the setting.

>>97737417
Don't even have to say its dwarf stuff.

Could say it's old one bullshit they found. They are old ones you don't have to explain anything

>>97737089
This anon kind of has a point, there weren't really any stakes in whfb either, precisely because the the world was so fixed they were afraid to touch anything. The whole storm of chaos thing just ending up ignored in favour of the status quo, tamurkhan's whole invasion getting stopped the second he reaches one (1) important city, etc. It was always 5 minutes til midnight, but you knew nothing would ever change whenever gw did one of their narrative events, so everything felg kind of toothless. The stakes were too high, which ended up meaning there werw no stakes at all in practice if you catch my drift. Well, until the end times of course.

>>97737410
>I-I totally have models... honest! But they live in canada, no you can't see them
Well I'll give you the benefit of the doubt, congrats on being the first and only TOWddler to actually buy a mini!

>AoSfag laughs at own delusions
Tragic.

It is kind of funny how buttmad anons on /tg/ can get whenever a circlejerk gets some pushback from the local contrarian

>>97738394

>Thamurkhan getting stopped at 1 major city.

You see, I dont normally get caught by these bait threads, but oh boy howdy you fucking got me good.

>Thamurkhan's final battle takes place outside the gates of Nuln.
>NULN

As in, the Gunnery Capital of the EMPIRE. Where most of their cannons, rifles, and hellblasters come from.

Not even to mention the fact that, No, he didnt just stop at 1 city. The giant fucking swathe of the Border princes he set to light is testament to that.

Read the fucking book you Moron.

>>97738565
Yeah I know buddy, it's a perfect illustration of what I mean. Nuln is so le important to the empire, of course it didn't fall. Because nothing meaningful can ever change, so as soon as they get to the actually important places all the suspense is gone. Oh but he laid waste to the fucking border princes, wowzers!

>>97738394
Didn't Tammy destroy Pfieldorf too? Plus, Tamurkhan and everything related to him was Forge, so they probably didn't have the authority to do too much anyways.

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>>97716458
>>97738394
*laughs in Star League English*

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>>97714256
Last warhammer fantasy publications that mattered were all in the 80s and were for the battle wargame and RPG setting although fair play for that company trying to revive the RPG which is not games workshop but cubicle 7. peaked with 2nd edition battle and pic related for the RPG.Have the cubicle 7 starter set but have not opened it

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>>97738836
>>97738836
>Last warhammer fantasy publications that mattered were all in the 80s and were for the battle wargame and RPG setting although fair play for that company trying to revive the RPG which is not games workshop but cubicle 7. peaked with 2nd edition battle and pic related for the RPG.Have the cubicle 7 starter set but have not opened it

Everything after these two was just milking and games workshop was in full slop mode by 1990 (turns out being slop vendors of crap is more profitable than giving a shit)

>>97738836
Something about all those expressions just kills me.

>>97715957
Making a console RTS at all is insane, doing it in 2023 was beyond all reason. Then its also the most boring shit ever as well.

>>97715329
How many years has to pass for aos to stop been young?

Aos is in the perfect place to be "universo beyonded". No one cares about the setting and its more costly to keep writers trying to give life to a world only 1% of aos players care. Just make minis of different ips with aos rules and cash it out. Give one piece or starwars minis with rules.

>>97715478
Yes, every main character from old world was grave digged to aos. >>97715927
>did everything wrong
>made it tabletop accurate
What did he mean by this?

>>97740008
>rts game
>tabletop accurate
Mhmmm why might this be a mistake
Do you really need help with this? He spelled it out for you

>>97714256
>>97714284
Part of it is probably the fact secondaries think it's all 40k

No joke there's an Elspeth image on r34 and one comment is talking about Cadians and the next about Grey Knights

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I would posit that it's due to three factors. First, the fan base AoS has accrued. Put simply, they're the kind of people who really like World of Warcraft and Star Wars. They're video gamers before they're wargamers. You could also compare them to current-day Magic the Gathering players. Normalfags, or at the very least relative normalfags. Normalfags are boring. They don't have the vitality that makes them interesting. No-one who makes a lasting impact on "the culture" is or wants to be a normalfag. Make of that what you will, and before you REEEEE at me, both 40k and modern-day Warhammer Fantasy (or should I say TOW?) have this same issue. Second, either GW has kept their artists on a leash for the last ten years or they simply haven't found talent that can produce properly evocative art that captures the imagination of prospective players. AoS players are already bought in, they'll like anything that has to do with AoS. People who don't like AoS yet need to be convinced and GW hasn't figured out how to do that. In other terms, the aesthetic sucks at drawing in new blood. You can make the argument that current-day WHFB is no different (and you would be right, the game lost its way aesthetically in 2007), but the fact remains that AoS is for AoS fans and no-one else. Third, and even die-hard AoS fanboys have realized this, the entire setting has been hamstrung by both corporate overreach and a constant barrage of (in some ways and in some ways not) merited vitriol. That the AoS fanbase, such as it is, has reacted to the former with adoration/worship and the latter with seething anger is telling in the extreme.
Anyway, the problems AoS has are the same problems GW has right now. The people who knew what was up either left the company or died and the people at the wheel right now just don't get it. 40k is succeeding off of inertia alone and has stunk since 2014, AoS has stunk since 2015, and I would argue that TOW stinks too.

>>97740835
Your third point has some substance to it but the first two are almost exactly the opposite of what is actually happening, it's like you're posting from some sort of opposite bizarro world, no offense.
>the fanbase of the game with famously 0 good secondary media are actually all video gamers first
>the game which is basically entirely made to attract normies is "struggling to attract new blood"
These two statements are genuinely baffling.
The true reason why aos has no cultural appeal is simply no (good) vidya. That's it. Tabletop players are a fraction of vidya players. I bet if you take a look at the warhammer fantasy porn in question it'll be 99% total war or vermintide related. Wake me up when people are out there drawing rule34 of brunner or maria-luise von walfen or some shit.

>>97738565
>Not even to mention the fact that, No, he didnt just stop at 1 city. The giant fucking swathe of the Border princes he set to light is testament to that.

The Border Princes are a fluff only sub-faction that exists to get beaten up to show how dangerous threats are. They are the equivalent of naming a new vampire dynasty that got wiped out to give a group of vampire hunters enough credit that the Von Carsteins appear threatened.

>>97740970
Secondaries are secondaries because they were attracted to secondary media produced for settings that had already gained some amount of cultural significance. To argue otherwise is to argue in circles. AoS doesn't have video games because it doesn't have cultural significance and it doesn't have cultural significant because it doesn't have video games. I'm sure you can see the problem. Wwhat even is the operational definition of cultural significance here? fa/tg/uy cultural significance? Normalfag cultural significance? My understanding of "cultural significance" may be different from yours, which may be why you think I'm living in opposite world.
40k established itself in the culture (which culture, though? wargame culture?) long before normalfags (Which definition of normalfag are we using here? Normalfaggotry is always relative. 40k players are normalfags in relation to Fantasy players, for example.) got into it and long before Dawn of War came out. Fantasy did too. It existed for thirty years before being killed, remember?
So, why hasn't AoS gained cultural significance? If it is, as you said, "entirely made to attract normies"... why hasn't it? Why hasn't it gotten that video game that will surely attract millions of normalfags? It's gotten video games. They weren't good. Why weren't they good?
As for why I think AoS players are video gamers before they're wargamers, I should have been more clear about that: They're specifically League of Legends and World of Warcraft players. You know, animals! Video gameists, if you will. Normalfag video gameists, or perhaps failed normalfag video gameists would be a better term. Go read /aosg/, you'll see what I mean. That they constantly cry out for AoS to get a video game that would appeal to "normies" is proof of this. This isn't to say Warhammer Fantasy or 40k haven't also been infested with these types, by the way. The sheer state of /wfg/ or /40kg/ tells you all you need to know.

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>>97740970
My post was too long so I had to separate my final point out in another post.
Why do you want that big video game in the first place? To correct the record? To convince people that they're wrong and that AoS is actually super great? Is cultural significance (a term I find to be vague and retarded, if that wasn't clear in my first post) really that important? Do you want normalfags infesting your game? Because I wish Warhammer Fantasy hadn't been infested with normalfags. I've seen the terrors such a thing has wrought. I've seen what TOW is. I've played it. I don't like it. I may not like AoS for a variety of reasons (skirmish, zero customization, over-emphasis on GW-named characters, multi-monopose models, plastic, the playerbase, I could go on...) but I wouldn't wish normalfaggification (a word of power if there ever was one) on AoSfags. Though it could be said that AoS has already been normalfaggified, or that it was normalfag bait from the very beginning, but one could say the same about anything at any point in time. I'm sure people would have said that the 4th edtition of WHFB was normalfag bait relative to 3rd or that 40k 2e was normalfaggier than Rogue Trader if these terms had been in use back in the day! It's all fucked, is what I'm trying to say. Be careful what you wish for. Do you really want the same kind of Total War retard who's been shitting up Warhammer Fantasy for the last decade to start shitting up AoS? Because they will. And you won't be happy about it even if AoS does wind up being "culturally significant", whatever the fuck that means.

>>97741174
>>97741215
I'm still not entirely clear on what you mean by these video gameists to be honest. Now me personally? I'd like a good aos game, but not because it will "convince the normies" or anything like that, as you have correctly pointed out that's fucking retarded and not somehing you should want. But to put it simply, I like vidya, I like aos, I'd like aos vidya that isn't shovelware. For me, not for the hypothetical normies so to speak.
As for the larger discussion on what exactly cultural relevance is? Yeah that's a bit of mess, like most things it's very relative. I think of the three big gw systems 40k is really the only one to actually come close to being "culturally relevant", at least among the wider geek-cultural-sphere. Like you'l see references to it in other media, y'know a "for the emperor!" achievement in some random unrelated game, or like how "space marine" is sometimes used as a term for "overpowered units" by people who haven't even heard of 40k stuff like that. You won't really see those for fantasy, let alone aos.
Again, this is all relative. Even though nerd culture has in large parts nestled itself within the mainstream zeitgeist we're still ways off from being able to make 40k references in normal conversation the way you might be able to do with say star wars or game of thrones.
Does any of this make sense? I feel quite schizo typing all of this. I don't know how regular schizoposters do it.

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>>97714256
Because it's corposlop at its core. AoS only ever existed to de-Tolkienize Warhammer Fantasy so that GW could trademark it. So the IP is rotten at its core. And then from that legally-distinct seed, GW then proceeded to let the staffers from the wokest period in human history design all of the aesthetics, thus making AoS the opposite of timeless. AoS resonates with no one. It's not generational. It's a flash in the pan and I cannot believe there weren't any marketing professionals at GW who didn't stop it.

>>97740970
They have like 3 video games and none was good. How many more shitty games they have to make before people realize the issue arent the games but the ip?

>>97741334
Yeah man I'm sure realms of ruin would've been a real smash hit if it was set in whfb

>>97741344
If aos fags want video games of their setting they would be happy for getting realm of ruins. Vermintide was full skepticism before released for been a melee fps, total war warhammer took years to become what it is and remember fantasy 3ed ttrpg was shit. But for some reason aos fags dissapear when they get a third party product.

>>97741446
Adding to this, mordheim was shit, but it manage to get a dlc. Realm of ruin was just forgot ten by aos fags. Fantasy grogs may be pay pigs but they show up to every diarrea they can get so when one of those manage to be a gem they can support that cultural victory.

>>97740970
>I bet if you take a look at the warhammer fantasy porn in question it'll be 99% total war or vermintide related.

The biggest percentages are furry. It is ~20% is Skaven, ~15% Lizardmen, and Beastmen at ~8%. Chaos Daemons are about 5%. Vermintide's characters are only about ~10% of the total (with Kerillian being most of that). Miao Ying by herself is ~8% with the wood elf twins being 2.5%, but a good percentage of the art of named female characters from WFB seems to be based on the Total War designs.

I'd say that roughly half is related to Total War or Vermintide, but a good portion of that might be furries using the setting to "legitimize" their stuff by tying it to a popular IP.

>>97741446
>If aos fags want video games of their setting they would be happy for getting realm of ruins
I’m ngl the only warhammer game that was honest to goodness good was dawn of war 1 and chapter master. Total war just seems like an investment game than anything else.

>>97741511
And still most 40k fans not only got most dow1 dlc but they also got dow2, they also got all the shitty shovelware and they probably still play the card game.
Same shit for fantasy fags, they probably also got the old rat game or the wizard dungeon crawler.
AoS fags cant keep saying "we just need games" and when one came out they are "not like this" and expect magically to gain a cultural victory. Even realm of ruin which is the only aos game people can mention isnt the only aos game, but most people cant mention the others.

>>97741446
Those games didn't get big because loads and loads of fantasy fans bought them genius, normies bought them and they made fantasy get big.
Realms of ruins is just not a good game I'm not sure why you'd expect people to paypig for it just because it has a stormie in the cover.

>>97741292
Let's just call "video gameists" a composite word that illustrates my perceptions of the people who post in /aosg/ and move on. Any point I would have wanted to make isn't worth making at this point.
If we're talking about cultural relevance the way you are, then I wouldn't even say 40k, as in the wargame setting, is "culturally relevant". The perception that normalfags have of 40k is not really true to what 40k really is, is it? Space marines, maybe, but there's more to 40k than just space marines. Comparisons can be made to touhou, vocaloid, or really just role-playing games and wargames in general. Normalfags! They think they know about things, but they really don't!
Anyway, no, no it's not making sense, but that's okay. Few conversations on malaysian post-modern basket weaving forums do. Communication matters and I think we've had a fruitful exchange. For what it's worth, you've been far more pleasant than the other AoS people I've spoken (typed?) to. I hope you get the AoS video game you want, anon. I hope it doesn't have negative consequences for the wargame you like too.

>>97714284
the only reason to have an account is to block disgusting tags like scat or urethral insertion

Tßh drawn porn needs to be whimsical to work. Warhammer settings lack whimsy.

>>97740835
Accurate, all mainline gw products are soulless, but 40k and fantasy still have enough freak-appeal from the old days to keep cultural oomph, while aos never ever had ensouled gw working on it so it has only every attracted guys who want a break from painting their star wars legions models. No one with the soul of whimsy that drives an autistic man to make his own space marine chapter and write a novella of lore about them, no one that lives and breathes the setting so much it corrupts their soul and they start jerking off to it. It's a purely commercial plastic thing, like apex legends oor

>>97740970
Midwit IQ thinking, you are able to put together two clear facts and assume a total relation, but unable to percieve the hollistic reality. Sad!

>>97742393
Yeah I agree, all cultural relevance is, well, relative. Enjoy your weekend my groggy friend.
>>97745818
Pot, kettle, etc etc

>>97715927
The game would have been okay at least, if they had included all factions.

>>97714256
>No Vermintide hot babes
>No Total War hot babes and some guys
>No skaven
Why even bother

>>97737089
I want *my* game to have consequences, not some gay lore book.
>Don't worry about failing the save on your Crypocastellant Aethyre-Generalqueen, because it's just going to respawn in the Realm of Sigmaflight
>Oh you should read the Novel where that nearly got switched off but it got saved at the last minute, it's great that they're moving the setting forward isn't it?

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>>97715870
>stupider and stupider justifications for it
Alliances are self-explanatory even between normally opposing factions. How and why are Lizardmen fighting Bretonnians? Use your fucking imagination. Some Slann half-dreamed that the Old Ones wanted them to hurl Aquitane into the sea, so he teleported over with a warhost just in case he wasn't just dreaming.
AoS is a shallow, low IQ setting for newfags and trannies with no lore, no depth, and its only interesting characters are literally just ripped from WFB, even characters that died in the supposedly canon ET. Nu-GW is completely creatively bankrupt and incapable of writing good new characters. Even in 40gay, their most interesting spehs muhreen character in the last two decades is some autist's OC from a fucking Sega game.
>>97737070
Like the other anon said, they will do fucking anything but just give us Araby or the Southlands, so the black-obsessed soilennials at nu-GW have no other outlet than shoehorning Africans into the Empire. Even Savage Orcs are forbidden because modern GW sees them as black caricatures, fucking hilarious irony. Imagine looking at picrel and immediately thinking "holy shit, is that a black man?!" and then calling someone else racist.

>>97714256
It has about as much of a setting as the stories on the back of a cereal box in the 90s.

>>97747471
The Lego Castle factions have more depth and lore than all of AoS put together, and more interesting, too.

>>97745818
Good post, this gets to the heart of the matter. AoS is cynically-made, soulless, generic slop built on the looted and defiled grave of a beloved and rich setting, handled by an incompetent and malicious millennial faggot dyke team who hate their core fanbase because the old guard fans are White and male. That's why they shoehorn in stronk womyn and browns into the afterlife of a 100% White HRE empire's religion, which might be forgivable if they were capable of making a single one of those characters likable or interesting or even memorable. But again, the intent is purely malice toward the old fans and greed-driven cynical marketing toward the prospective 'new' (which never happened), not to tell a story or create interesting factions or a good setting. Great recipe for a successful new game, retards!
It's also very telling that every single one of the factions that actually sells well is a 1:1 rip straight from classic Warhammer, like Lizardmen, Skaven, and Night Goblins, but even then they can't manage to make anyone give a fuck about the setting these factions are in, and they've yet to introduce a single interesting new character for any of them.

>>97747345
Titus is carrying 40k by himself rn, what he wont endure in the name of the Emperor!

>>97714256
No far more successful RTS and later MMO franchise to rip off the initial premise, give it an artstyle with greater mass appeal (cope about it and I'm not saying it's objectively better, but the sales figures don't lie) and bombard normies buying into it with constant, constant End Times-level events that keep resetting to an RvB status quo to create the illusion of both stakes and investment in the setting's cosmology and conflicts.

Say what you like about World of Warcraft, but it sold so much harder than Fantasy that ultimately AoS is just GW's attempt at recreating WoW without understanding any of the appeal.

All the models sucked. Literally not one faction that looked cool.
The rules were also shit.
And it was born out of the destruction of something much better and more beloved.
Better question is why it's even still around.

>>97747870
Sunk cost fallacy. The real mystery is why they're handling it the way they are. Broken Realms was, from what I can tell, really popular with that crowd...so naturally, GW decided to never do anything like that ever again and essentially froze the timeline in place.

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>>97747751
AoS was made by oldtimers like alan merret, jervis johnson created the rules, blanche provided concept art, and guys like paul dainton created a bunch of art pieces for it. Not to mention the whole thing was ordered by tom kirby, who was there since the eighties even if nobody like him by the end.
This narrative that muh warcraft millennials are responsible for aos is pure cope by (fake)grogs, it's the same old boomers that did everything at gw.

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>>97749188
>AoS was made by oldtimers like alan merret, jervis johnson created the rules, blanche provided concept art, and guys like paul dainton created a bunch of art pieces for it. Not to mention the whole thing was ordered by tom kirby, who was there since the eighties even if nobody like him by the end.
>This narrative that muh warcraft millennials are responsible for aos is pure cope by (fake)grogs, it's the same old boomers that did everything at gw.

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>>97749312
Quote and Cope about it all you will, doesn't change the facts friendo

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>>97749442
>doesn't change the facts f
Such as..?

>>97749471
Can you not read?

>>97749484
>still no argument

>>97749188
>>97749442
A shame they couldn't get any of the old sculptors back.

>>97749575
That's a no then. I accept your concession.

>>97714256
40k has more secondaries, age of sigmar players don't care about the lore, just the models and the game (spearhead). AoS players are true modellers.
40k is burdened by the cancerous growth that is games and lore videos. It collects mouthbreathing retards better than my jumper collects dog hair. These secondaries would rather alternate between jacking it to SoB tits and playing SM2 than bother engaging with the actual hobby. It's their fault that 40k is so enshittified these days.

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>>97749601
>still cannot form a cohesive argument

>>97749653
Oink oink

>>97749692
The argument seems pretty simple to me, he says aos was a creation of gw's old guard and not the millennial boogeymen.

>>97749692

>Another animation where the helmetless Stormcast is a black woman
I’m getting really tired of this. If you went purely off the animations, the Stormcast would be majority women.

>>97749692
Wtf the Bolt stay in position after shooting?
Brilliant miss hammer.

>>97741506
Excluding furry in general takes out over 40% of the total art for WFB, and like you said a lot of it is just somebody's fursona cosplaying. And then you actually hate yourself enough to dig through it, a not insignificant chunk of what's left is just furry porn that hasn't been tagged properly.

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>>97750247
>he says aos was a creation of gw's old guard and not the millennial boogeymen.
Yeah about that...
Meanwhile according to Gallager they had no idea on what they were working when GW issued them to make AoS art.

I know nothing of the show or DnD but tbf I really like Critical Role smut. Bit disappointing that the tiefling slut is Russian in the animations but other than that CptPopcorn's works are pretty good.

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>>97750593
>>Another animation where the helmetless Stormcast is a black woman
You do realise that picrelated was the very first helmetless SCE?

>>97750830
Maybe, but I'm going to assume jervis johnson, alan merret, and tom kirby did.

>>97750866
>tom kirby
Sure thing, LMAO

>>97750870
Yeah? He waa ceo at the time? Am I missing something?

>>97749188
>>here's some old timers who did it
>>if you call it warhammer you're a fake grog, it's a cope.
This is incoherent.
It's also not the same old boomers, no Byran, no Rick Priestly (he expressly asked to come back and was refused), sure as hell no-Kev, No diaz, no perries, No Adrian Smith. it's the last old men.
Now i like Jervus and i think your rule system is good enough for what it is. but nothing you said actually maps into aesthetics.
Concept art by Blanche has nothing to do when you actually see the models.
It is very warcraft, bulky, wide, big paldrons, fisherprice weapons etc. the same is true for this. furthermore blanche did the concept art for 40k during the period and doesn't make it aesthetically old hammer either.

But i'm going to further because you're a fucking retard.
That it was made by the old guard, or the last of them doesn't preclude it from being the things mentioned. it can still be a highly corporate affair while being made by passionate people, for instance all of warhammer was in the fucking firstplace.
IF i accept all you've said you should be mad, The old men were pushed out or left and the shepherds of your game are not capable of breathing the level of depth into it that other settings have. you're left with a half finished game, heavily geared toward tournament play with very little oldhammer elements but a lot of pieplates on battlefield for you niggas to fight over like it's 40k

>>97750866
the impression i got from hewitt's interview was that it was extremely stop start, with them crunching wildly.
didn't seem like it flowed smoothly.
Oh and rick's own testimony was that the Chaos dwarfs were supposed to be end times causing that reset but they chickened out suggesting things went wrong.
>>97750247
Something he doesn't mention in any point is the actually sculptors anon.
you have jervus - rules
Merret - writing
Blanche - concept
Rick - cuckchair

>>97749188
Anynone who stuck around in nu gw probably has the problem a lot of old creative guys do, where they get lazy and uninspired in their 40 and beyond, resting on their laurels from when they had the real belly fire and success of their youth. A few odd blanche doodles aren't enough to fix it - I've posted that very image with comments along the lines of "man if they actually made stormcast look like this they might have been accepted".

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>>97752240
>your game
Don't get is twisted, I've never played an aos game in my life. I've painted up some of the models and enjoyed them, but I'm not some aos player if that was your impression. I'm just kind of interested in the general time period since the behind the scenes of it all seems like it was a fucking mess. Amyway, I agree that the sculptors were obviously not the oldhammer guys we know and love, but honestly it hadn't been for a while, since whenever they started doing digital stuff. Like 2008 or something probably?
Anyway, my point is mainly that aos was created by the same boomers who'd been running the show for ages at that point. Like yeah ansell and priestley weren't there anymore, but in the former's case he wasn't there since like the early nineties, and anything post, what 3rd edition? he wouldn't be involved with anyway. Priestley's a different matter but he was always more of a 40k guys anyway.
Spot on in regards to the sculptors though, they'd been phases out for a while at that point though ever since gw adopted digital sculpting, which was earlier than most people think. Probably around 2008 or something? But yeah in tbat aspect aos is the most divorced from oldhammer, though I'd counter that models are hardly the biggest problem with aos, y'know personal taste aside.
Disagre on blanche's concept art not mattering, for stormcast maybe, but for the other faction his stuff ends up being really close to what the models end up looking like. Kharadron, nighthaunt, and especially gloomspite.
Corporate? Absolutely? Muh millennials? Hell no.

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>>97714256
Bad aesthetic
Only good minis are from Fantasy or iterated on Fantasy
No setting
No characters

Pure onions.

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>>97750247
Yea, the issue isn't that it was made by 32 year olds that infilitrated the company or whatever, it's that it was made by men who had lost sight of what made their work a cultural successs.It was a succesful attempt to cast off what they saw as chains holding them back. Unfortunately, they didn't actually have anywhere they wanted to go when the chains were broken - they just had grown to hate the feeling of the chains. There wasn't some grand creative vision full of the passion and energy that drvies people to get invested in a setting, it was just

>I hate not having space marines to drive sales
>I hate not being able to make whatever I want
>I hate having all these complex rules that potentially hold back sales
>I hate having to keep all these gay old grogs happy
>I hate having to model minis so they rank up

And they got rid of all that succesfully. But for what...? No grand project. It was so they could make little individual projects with no grand vision or driving energy unifying them. Someone decides to make bull-elves, someone decides to make slayers a whole thing, and so on. There's some significant soul in some of those individual projects, but exactly zero oversoul. Zero sense of what the "AoS Mood" is. Just individual model ranges that either hit or don't. Nercomunda is a great example of the opposite from inside gw. Every single part of it is clearly contributing to the grand whole. Bloodbowl too. Without that sense of mood you can't find real deep fans.

>>97753028
>Nercomunda is a great example of the opposite from inside gw.
Completely lost me there.

>>97753038
There is absolutely a necromunda mood. There's a couple outliers that kind of feel like they don't quite belong, like the van saar or ty onmyodo, but the reason people argue they don't belong is because there is something to belong to. No one ever says "oh sylvanneth don't fit AoS!" everything fits AoS, because AoS is nothing.

>>97753107
>There is absolutely a necromunda mood.
If you need to assure yourself of that, be my guest. But newcromunda isn’t coherent, and not in a fun realms of chaos fashion. Blood bowl itself is corporatized slop with its latest editions book telling old players who were trying to keep the game alive to fuck off.

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>>97753135
If you aren't able to distinguish between not liking how nucromunda departs from oldcromunda, and it not having a mood at all, you are blinded by nerd rage.

>>97753166
>you are blinded by nerd rage.
That’d be neat rather than being enamored by something void among newcromundas machinations.

>>97751577
>Am I missing something?
A lot my boomer friend.

>>97752935
oink-oink

>>97753395
Everything he says is correct and he isn't even being positive, you're a retard nigger.

>>97752935
>Corporate? Absolutely
I hear that AoS actually has less corporate meddling in it than 40k has (these days at least).
It obviously started as a corporate push to erase fantasy, but these days the designers have a lot more freedom to do what they want when compared to the 40k designers. This is due to the fact AoS doesn't sell as much as 40k, so the IP doesn't need to be micromanaged to hell.

>>97715330
This. There's no sense of place, which is important, if not essential to a fantasy world. Oh, the Empire? It's next to the World's Edge Mountains where the Dwarfs live, and to the West is Bretonnia. Mordor? The south east, surrounded by dark mountains, and Gondor all around it. Aquilonia is south of Cimmeria, Cyrodiil is in the centre of Tamriel, Winterfell is in the North and to get through it you have to go past, etc. etc. There's a reason to fight over things, and reasons for why you can or cannot go somewhere else in the world. What does AOS have? Where is Hyish? Where is Azyr? Why should I care when or where the Skaven attack when it can happen at anytime? I have not seen a single map of Age of Sigmar that is immediately intelligible where I can point to where things are in relation to each other. It might as well be one big arena.

According to recent news from trust worthy leakers, Aos is being squatted, so it seems like gw agrees and is trying again!

>>97753660
>the red-headed stepchild doesn't get as much supervision as the golden boy
I think that's called neglect anon

>>97715330
Fucking this. One of the prime reasons I could never get into AoS like I could WHFB or even 40k.

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>40k porn is mostly terrible
>WFB porn is mostly terrible
>I forget AoS exists so I don't even bother looking for it

>>97757916
Whfb i get but seems virtually indistinguishable from 40k to me

>>97738400
Uh oh stinky, looks like your setting just got squatted. Shucks, right?

>>97749188
Blanche is talented enough to make Stormcasts look cool. What a fucking chad.

>>97750247
>>97750830
I don't understand the millennial meme since primaris were designed to appeal to zoomies, when people talk about 'fakegrogs' they're complaining about 30yos who weren't around for 1st edition but talk like they were there in the 1980s. Then you post a white woman in her 40s and say "fuck millennials (people in their 30s)". Zoomers need to shut the fuck up. And so do roasties with ugly zoomer kids.

>>97757979
40k is space so it has 3d warfare but still projects certain things on a galactic plane, so certain worlds like Terra, Macragge, Necromunda, Sclopiopippio, Cadia etc. have or had importance as lynchpins to the imperial strategy at keeping chaos aids contained and keeping tau-kroot from shitting up the eastern fringe and keeping orks and tyranids from overrunning the galaxy. Segmentum solar is a 'place' in space comprised of the worlds within a jillion miles of terra and mars etc.

>>97758059
>in her 40s
This is why everyone hates your faggot generation, you literally deny reality constantly. That embarrassing genetic refuse is your peer, own it.

>>97758083
I don't see how that'a any different sorry. Like terra is an important place within the larger 3d space of the galaxy sure, but so is azyr or hammerhal or whatever. It's the same "finite on paper but infinite in practice" type setting to me.

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They are killing AoS?
>Warhammer: Age of Sigmar is dying in the most literal way imaginable. According to leaks, poor sales and a worse reputation for the game are pushing Games Workshop to push the "End Times" button again and reboot the setting. But that's not the funny part.
>They're going to kill off Sigmar, humanity's god in the setting, and split his faction in two. One half his the "evil" half that worships Sigmar. The other is the "good, progressive" half that worships Taal, a different Warhammer fantasy deity.
>It's the definition of insanity. Just keep blowing Warhammer Fantasy up and making it worse each time, hoping that THIS TIME you'll attract a new core audience.

>>97758203
Don't tell me you asked chatgpt to write a shitpost for you anon. Is nothing sacred?

>>97758203
>>97758207
This just reads like storms of chaos or 40ks 8th edition

>>97752935
>he wasn't there since like the early nineties
That's generally considered the oldhammer cutoff, once you get to about 2nd to 3rd. but it's about the character of the game, it lacks a lot of the people but also the drive of the time. you're hardly going to be the same person 10,20,30 years on.
i needed to squint between interviews to see the oldhammer in AoS and that's because Jervus wanted it to focus on narrative and edicts indicated it had to be rules light.

>blanche,
this is where we need to butt heads a bit more. Someone has to communicate these designs from concept to printable prototype and also there's going to be corporate in the way. If you know the Perry twins they were notorious for butting heads with their mini-designers and served as an aesthetic grounding for the universe. being massive history autists, Byran and others were notorious for forcing heir preferred aesthetics into the setting.
There's a reason why there's a back and forth about how much meddling/oversight the sculptors have compared to 40k.
I think you're right generally though about blanche's being followed a bit more but when people talk about warcraft they are talking about the extreme high fantasy and human designs.

>the models are hardly
that's a bit more of a grey area.
the original goal was very oldhammer, narrative driven games just with light rules (also sell more minis -Byran) but i mean i'd say that a game system as it is now, definitely nuhammer in the extreme. it's always sold to me in competitive terms, when i see it played it's often with big fuck off circles on the ground making it look like 40k. customization is nearly non-existent.
all of these things are to me required for oldhammer, from the gamemasters required to the light RPG elements, etc. it's entire design aligns with GW's corporate vision of the game.

>>97753028
i think it's more accurate to say it was made by tesco managers and investors. everything else was the old men doing what they can.

>>97758326
>2nd or 3rd
I might be confusing things here but wasn't whfb practically unrecognizable in those days? Like slann with human slaves kinda shit? 40k regularly bleeding into fantasy and stuff?

>>97749188
None of those people made the rules and Blanche didnt make concept art that is art made with 2nd edition after GW commissioned him

>>97758349
40k, i mean 40k
others indicate 4th for fantasy or 3rd, i know guys who swear by 3rd.
and yeah, the looser, less defined period.
also realms of chaos is good as hell, i wish my copies were so god damn fragile

>>97714256
>multiverse slop
or
>richly detailed fantasy world

AoS was designed by committee to reach as many new customers as possible, which means its bland and undeserving of anyone's long term engagement.

>>97758203
Please tell me Taal is a black man in AoS, that's the only way that'd be funnier.

>>97758420
His worshippers in the old world rpg seem to be black. So it’s possible there.

So how are you going to act when the leaks aren't true anon? Which personality will you take on?

>>97758390
Oh my bad

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>>97758372
>gw commissioned concept art from john blanche after they made the range
Just how retarded are you

>>97758159
Boomers hate us because they're mad abotu being old, zoomers hate us because they're mixed race no-muscle tranny abominations who steal all our memes from 2005 and say "I was born in 2004 so clearly I made this", I don't care what genx thinks because those fuckers were team #fuck boomers 10 years ago until they became eligible for pensions.

We are the movers and shakers and rapers and you revolve around my dick.

>>97714256
Because it's getting a soft-reboot in the future. AOS is killing, get ready for Warhammer:Age of Not!Fantasy

>>97715330
AOS is now on it's 4th edition. Fantasy didn't even have a coherent map till 6th. And only got it's major factions cemented in lore and design in 4th. If Fantasy first edition come out today you would cry about it even more than AOS.

Answer me you larping faggots. >>97758488

>>97758556
>didn't even have a coherent map till 6th
That's not true. Pic rel, the map found in the core rulebook for WHFB 3rd edition, released in 1987. 6th edition would be released 13 years later in 2000. If you're going to say things, at least do the bare minimum of research first.
>inb4 you say this map isn't coherent

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>>97758721
I am a fool! A buffoon who forgets to attach pictures to his post! Point at me and laugh, but know that I am an idiot who happens to be right!

>>97758556
Also also, the only army that got a major shake-up after 3rd (with the exception of VC and TK being split from Undead, but that doesn't count) would be the Lizardmen, and that was in 5th edition, not 4th, and even then there was already a proto-lizardmen army in the form of the Slann list found in the 3rd edition Armies book. Do your research before posting about Oldhammer, especially if you don't know anything about Oldhammer.

>>97758734
They quite literally changed 70% of this map in later editions. The new world and Naggaroth are separate places. Naggroth is in the chaos wastes instead of being a continent. Albion is larger than Norsca etc.

>>97758781
Bro they changed so much in the lore in 4th edition it isn't even funny. Elves used chaos runes before it.

>>97758796
That's cool, but is it a coherent map? And was that map published before 6th edition? The answer to both of those questions is yes. They changed the map later, sure, but that's not what this discussion was about.

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>>97758781
>and that was in 5th edition, not 4th,
HASHUT
HASHUT
HASHUT
ZHARR NAGRUND

>>97758796
you are highly overstating the changes
nigga it's literally our world map but confuzzelled.

the map is a side point, the issue is that realms of magic are not well but designed to be large broad locations to facility the design crew doing whatever they want.
this can be seen in interviews.

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>>97758806
Witch elves were still wearing the mark of Khorne prominently as late as 5th edition, see the 5th ed dark elf army book. What is your point? Yes, the game and the setting evolved. No, it didn't take until 6th edition for a "coherent map" to appear and it also didn't take until 4th ed for the "major factions" to be included or cemented in their lore and design. Look at the 3rd ed armies book. Read it! Literally the only "missing" army is the lizardmen, and the Slann are close enough.
>>97758829
Chaos dwarfs existed as units in the RoC chaos army lists, though they weren't exactly the chorfs you seem to know and love. They did get their first (and only) army book in 4th though, correct. Do they count as a "major" faction? I don't care to argue that point. You'll have to excuse me for forgetting about them.

>>97758859
>major faction
i didn't see that stipulation.
they also got a full army list and supplement in the lead up to endtimes.
Though, allow me a bit of time to add to your arguement.

Warhammer's missionstatement and resources are highly different to AoS
AoS has a lot it could have built off, the 10 year cope doesn't really work.
fucking 40k for instance took 1 edition to basically solidify all of the fluff and the world. 6 years or so and by 9 it was effectively complete until like 7th.

AoS should have a lot more resources to build a compelling world, with access to authors (BL started after), stronger corporate infrastructure and not being slightly half assed to encourage people to buy more dnd minis.

>>97758781
Forgot the chaos split

>>97758949
Doesn't count (see Undead) and was a mistake (unlike Undead, arguably).

>>97758949
in fluffterms that wasn't really a split.
Undead being divided into TK and VC isn't the same as us getting CD, BoC and CW

>>97758930
>with access to authors (BL started after)
BL is actively detrimental to "creating a compelling world"

>>97758964
A shame isn't it.
with all that money, with all that ready access to talent, the can't do anything with it except pay aid's victims to write dogshit.

>>97758961
>Doesn't count (see Undead)
Why? You can't just ignore things that go against your argument, you gotta give at least some justification

>>97758976
Do you think dividing chaos gods into their own rulebook is some how a new lord shake ip?

>>97758992
Yes
But I was more asking for undead

>>97758976
A) that split happened in 7th, long after the period we're discussing, B) nothing about warriors, beasts, and daemons changed, fundamentally, it was purely a rules change because GW wanted to make more money, and C) because I say so

>>97758996
I'm a bit buzzed so i'm making spelling mistakes.
if i take chaos right now, and make a rule book for each god, and nothing else changes, that's a fluff shake up?
so just by organizing all of the khorne worshippers into A SINGLE BOOK-
the fuck am i doing.
nigga is giving OaC their own rulebook outside of ravening hordes a Fluff shakeup?

>>97758996
Oh, the Undead split was a 6th edition thing and is arguably a little different than the Chaos split, but I still don't think it counts because you could run a VC list before the split and you could also run a TK list too. See points A of my prior post, but also note that technically the Undead split did lead to VC becoming way more focused on the eastern european vampires thing and TK going from literal bandage-wrapped mummy models to less bandage-wrapped mummy models with stone constructs. Also, see point C. They're still Undead at the end of the day.

>>97758203
>>97758207
I don't follow Aos lore what do they mean by more open and progressive stormcast?

>>97759001
>nothing really changed after 3rd edition
>oh well this doesn't count because it happened too long after 3rd edition
Huh?
>>97759016
It's an IP changeup yes. Giving trolls their own army would impact the ip.
>>97759019
I don't see how it doesn't count. Using the troll example again, you can run a troll list right now but if tomorrow gw came out with a separate troll army with different units, different fluff, different characters, then that's a change. Seems pretty simple to me honestly

>>97759224
They're not talking about stormcast they're talking about cities of sigmar.
Which was basically a garbage bin of a faction for most of aos' history where they dumped 90% of the empire, dwarf, high wood and dark elf models so those players had an excuse to keep using their models in age of sigmar. In universe these were justified as bastions of order where the different races in question more or less put aside their differences and worked together in order to survive in this harsh world. However slowly but surely most of those subfactions got squatted from the range, either because aos itself brought out a defacto replacement (lumineth as their own faction as high elves 2.0) or because they wanted them back in tow and aos wasn't really doing anything with them anyway (dwarfs, empire). In 2022 cities of sigmar finally got actual new aos miniatures, but it was notably human-only (plus an ogre buddy I guess) and pretty different in aesthetic to even the previous humans who were of course empire models. The cooperation aspect was still there but took a backseat to focus on the new models of course.
Anyway, according to the gathering storm : age of sigmar edition, the reset will make Cities of Sigmar more of a fantasy version of the imperial guard than they already were, and make them paranoid xenophobic zealots. Except for I guess a handful of cities who follow taal for some fucking reason, who will be more chill, hence progressive.

>>97759346
The undead army became 2 undead armies in 6th edition, yes. Let's say it counts, what's your point? They're still undead armies. They were already established in 3rd and as for chaos, it's still chaos. We're both nitpicking at this point. The fact of the matter is that WHFB had already established most of its identity within three years. That's what this discussion was originally about. Yes, it changed going forward. No, that's not what this discussion is about. I don't know what point you're trying to make here, so either get on with it and write something coherent or stop wasting my time. In summary, making 2 undead armies out of 1 undead army and making 3 chaos armies out of 1 chaos army is A) not a big deal, seeing as the sub-armies were already fleshed out (sort of, TK only really became TK in 6th) as of 3rd edition, so whatever point there is to be made here is both moot and gay, but I repeat myself.

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>>97714256
nobody wants to look up "aelven_female" tag

>>97759441
>I don't know what point you're trying to make here, so either get on with it and write something coherent or stop wasting my time
But I like nitpicking. I'm not even the guy you started this conversation with, I just chimed in to tell you you forgot chaos.
I also didn't waste your time, you did that all by yourself. Though come on, wasn't it at least a little bit fun to talk about some old bullshit that doesn't matter?

>>97758507
Since you cant read you are clearly the only retard. Its not concept art. I literally pointed out those are not concept art. Its art he made for GWs Stormcasts Podcast in 2019. Aos came out in 2015

>>97758507
That piece literally from years after AOS came out and from a white dwarf which does not say its concept art but a piece he did afterwards

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>>97760276
>>97760352
>One of John Blanche’s first concept drawings
(which you can see below. -Ed) presented a
hierarchy of the Kharadron’s society
[...]
>John’s concept explorations produced the initial silhouettes – many of which included the spherical shape that would later become the buoyancy endrins
Maybe read before you write next time lmao

>>97758193
nta
While I'm not a big fan of it, consider the big plot moving forward moment of 40k - sure Chaostards frollicked around the Galaxy before but it wasn't until 13th Black Crusade and the fall of Cadia that shit got really bad for Imperium. People fight everywhere and teleport everywhere, which isn't truly that different from WHFB inventing bullshit reasons to have everyone fight everyone everywhere at once, but uranography remains static (with notable and important exceptions like Ullanor) and thus events and people have their own places within the world that interact with each other - Huron Blackheart raids Imperium out from the Maelstrom, the Octarius War is FUN for everyone involved and Tau sit in their shitty little slice of space. Within Imperium specific sectors of space, not only individual planets, can be heavily shaped by where they are - Segmentum Solar is rich and old and even the shitty places like Necromunda have tons of Archeotech, Segmentum Obscurus is heavily militarized and focused on containing the Eye of Terror, Segmentum Pacificus has sector-wide rebellions every other week, Tempestus is in the process of being eaten by Tyranids more than others and Ultima contains everything else. A specific (and honestly only right now, 40k does not like fleshing it's world out too much outside of wargames) example of a location defined by it's circumstances is the Koronus Expanse, which exists as a region mostly cut off from the Imperium as a whole because there's only one way in and out. There's also the whole Imperium Obscurus shit but honestly that amounts to much less than it probably should.

Shameful amount of multiverse- and dimensionposting ITT. Why say anything at all if something as simple as the realms filtered you? I’m not saying the setting is great but there’s no multiverse or dimension bullshit going on at all.

>>97760508
Personally I don’t mind dimensions, it’s time warping shit that’s fucking retarded. Which I think only 40k has done (with tzeentch albeit, as far as I know) among the settings.

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>>97760508
>the not-solar system that filtered millions

>>97760551
This is not even a tenth as enjoyable or imagination stirring, as a nice piece of cartography full of evocative place-names weird little geographic fancies and a healthy dose of "Here be dragons"

>>97758032
John Blanche could paint children trick or treating, and make it terrifyingly baroque.

>>97760827
You get that with the maps of locations/continents in each realm. You’re looking at a map of the entire cosmos. Do you look at a 40k map of the galaxy and also think it’s boring as hell? I mean, yeah probably, it’s just a sea of stars where things happen on planets.

>>97760856
And herein we may approach the second issue;
These maps are by FAR less interesting than a map of The Old World for the same reason 40k planetary maps are; even more of the place names are just names with no lore, and there's 0 chance any of them will ever be GIVEN lore, because that map becomes irrelevant as soon as the featured theater of conflict is cycled out.

I can look at a map of The Old World, and trace the campaigns of Sigmar or Grimgor Ironhide across the face of it.

How many times has Helmgart been sacked and rebuilt?
Probably at least as many times as Armageddon.

Is there a single place in AOS with the history that place has dripping from it?

Brettonians and Orcs coming down Axebite Pass burn it to the ground basically every Marktag.

There is nothing in AOS that has that feeling.
And there never will be, because they're going to "End Times" the whole shebang.

>>97737089
End Times was hated because the characters all die abrupt and stupid deaths.

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>>97760827
>This is not even a tenth as enjoyable or imagination stirring, as a nice piece of cartography full of evocative place-names weird little geographic fancies and a healthy dose of "Here be dragons"

>>97749188
>alan merret, jervis johnson created the rules, blanche provided concept art,
You mean the people who have no choice but to work on what they are told did their job and besides those 3.... 99% of all the orginal people are gone including the father of warhammer priestly who is working on a new game. Hell even Blanche left after being forced to work on AOS. Congrats after being forced to work on a stupid setting literally the people you are claiming support it all left.

>>97760433
You claimed he did concept art for AOS 1st edition and all of AOS. This is 2nd edition. This is still several years after AOS came out. So where is the pre first edition art

>>97714256
/tg/ users don't make IPs. Secondaries like /twg/ do.

>>97761695
>april 2017
>second edition
It's actually impressive how little you know. Like every time you try to state something you end up embarrassing yourself further.

>>97761273
See, that’s all well and good but that wasn’t what your original comment was about. You can say the maps are shit and to a degree I agree with that opinion. I was just pointing out that treating a map of the cosmos as something to criticize for the lack of geography and here be dragoning is silly, because of course none of that is going on in space.

>>97759401
i see, thanks!

>>97758438
Wut? There's enough southlanders or pygmies for them to be notable? Seems my decision to not give a shit about the "Old World" lore drops has been right. They had a scent of AoS about them.

>>97714256
Because it's trash

>>97760276
>>97760352
I think you two owe >>97760433 an apology

>>97761922
The RPG has a couple of Black dramatis personae, one of which is a priest of Taal, but I think it's explicitly stated they are foreigners and not from the Empir,e which applies to all the Black NPCs in TOW RPG

I'm a blood bowl fag who is casually into WHFB and not much else. I never got into AOS because it looks like some marvel-dc superhero setting with multiverse stuff, and I find that kind of world building lazy, uninspired and unfulfilling.

I don't know what's going on with it nowadays, I don't pay attention to things I don't care for.

Vermintide, TWW, and Gotrek and Felix carried warhammer

>>97762123
There is no multiverse. There is one cosmos. Disliking something based on false premises is retarded, anon.

>>97762214
It is kind of hilarious how many people get it wrong though. No wonder they're changing it, the great filter is too powerful.

>>97762223
Yeah that’s what I think too. It’s what gives the leaks the most credibility for me. AoS is not a complicated setting but the first thing about it is needlessly complicated for someone entirely new to it. I get how simplifying it into a single planet would help draw in those who have been filtered.

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>>97762335
Ultimately I think it comes down to GW having no fucking clue what they were doing in 2015 and having 0 quality control leading to stuff like picrel. It's still what a lot of people picture when they think of aos' geography, no matter how many actual normal maps gw makes. I think this is them trying to very loudly state OKAY GUYS ITS DIFFERENT NOW, even if doesn't end up looking that different from the solid normal maps we already have of like the ghurish heartlands and stuff.

>>97714256
It's gay and retarded.

>>97761798
>1st edition 2015
>2nd edition 2018
What was said is 100% correct if the difference is literally barely a couple of months

>>97714284
>so culturally insignificant that your characters get tagged under warhammer fantasy and 40k labels
Big oof.

>>97762512
>what was said is 100% correct if you just ignore that you're wrong
LMAO yeah I guess

>>97737070
You're the real deal. An honest to god faggot.

>>97762528
Did Kharadon exist at AOS release in 2015? No
Did they come out literally as the malign potential and 2nd edition was starting? Yes

day #1000000 of secondaries simping for a game they never played (and still dont even though its back)

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>>97762568
>john blanche didn't do any concept art for age of sigmar!!
>no that's not concept art he drew that AFTER they already made the range!!
>okay well it's concept art but this was for SECOND EDITION
>yeah well it was it for first edition but that doesn't count because... uhh....
KWAB
Also do you think because the faction came out in 2017 he drew the concept art in 2017 too?
Looking forward to your next cope!

>>97762645
Never said he never made any art for them ever fucking retard. I'm pointing out, however, that art that came out multiple years after the setting started is not concept art for the setting itself. It also takes the man like 2 minutes to make an art piece. Thank you so much. If this was something planned from the beginning, why did it not come out in 2015

>>97714256
It tried to ride the World of Warcraft wave about a decade after WoW peaked in popularity while also trying to have the same scale as 40K despite the original fantasy setting never being designed for such scale to begin with.

>>97762645
Given how uninspired AOS is I would be surprised if they didnt think of most factions thr year they are released. Basicly no lore and boring models

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>>97762660
>>97760276
>Since you cant read you are clearly the only retard. Its NOT CONCEPT ART. I literally pointed out those are NOT CONCEPT ART. Its art he made for GWs Stormcasts Podcast in 2019. Aos came out in 2015
>>97760352
>That piece literally from years after AOS came out and from a white dwarf WHICH DOES NOT SAY IT'S CONCEPT ART but a piece he did afterwards
It's incredibly. It's like you're a robot programmed to only say wrong stuff that can be disproven in 5 seconds. I've never seen anything like this. You just keep doing it too, which is the funniest part. Keep on keeping on little buddy.
Do you think kharadron are not part of aos or something? That they're not part of the setting?
>it takes the man like 2 minutes to make an art piece
You're oh so correct buddy, but taking that concept art and turning them into miniatures with rules etcetera all the way to a product sold in boxes takes a little bit longer than 2 minutes don't you think big man?
>why did it not come out in 2015?
Why didn't they release the 7 or so new armies they had planned for 1st edition over the span of 3 years in a single month instead? Real head scratcher that one.
You are by far the funniest poster I've had the pleasure of interacting with on /tg/ in ages.

reminder that it says 2014 next to the signature of john blanche.

>>97762711
>Do you think kharadron are not part of aos
The claim was Blanches helped create the setting. Concept art is pre release. Anything post 2015 is not concept art for the setting.
>takes a little bit longer than 2 minutes don't you think big man?
It doesn't take years. This is not 1980s we have software to make models in literally hours. Heck trench crusades turn around from art to stl short and they are indie. So its not gonna take the biggest mini producer in the world 15 fucking years like you seem to think
>Why didn't they release the 7 or so new armies they had planned for 1st edition over the span of 3 years in a single month instead? Real head scratcher that one.
Literally all of them had names in first edition core book and models. Literal none of the starting factions are missing. Granted most of aside from storm cast are just grouping old units into new factions but hey that was GWs choices. When the entire Fyreslayer faction in the 2015 core rules is like 3 models XD the they got updates later on but they released and had their first stories in the very first terrible core book. Not until night haunt and kahardon did a new faction get created.

It really is amazing how terrible the whole thing started and continued as

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>>97762921
>Anything post 2015 is not concept art for the setting.
Good thing it's from 2014 LMAO

>>97762807
>>97762921
>>97762979
Is this some kind of humiliation ritual? Why does he keep trying?

>>97763028
discord trannies have been raiding warhammer threads for years now. they get off on ruining discourse.

>>97714256
>age of smegma

>>97714256
what fucking characters would you even make porn out of in aos

>>97763091
Mostly furry and Bara.
Can't say AOS doesn't know their audience.

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>>97762979
To be fair on that one. GW does itself consistently get roman numerals wrong they have on numerous times said VIII is 13, you cant really trust them to even spell check published books let alone check random art concept art. So unless its written with Arabic numerals who know what GW thinks that number is.

Heck in front of their building they have a clock that says IIII for 4

>>97763091
There is the female sanguinus, the hunter woman, and.... i think COS has a female character with a model.... yeah thats about it for characters who were not also in WHFB

>>97763316
gw sure, but I'd like to think blanche is a bit less retarded. says 2015 on his gloomspite stuff as you can see here, to provide an extra example >>97752935
also I'm pretty sure IIII was pretty widely used as 4 alongside IV, that's not really a gw thing

>>97762406
>it comes down to GW having no fucking clue what they were doing in 2015
I'm reading the Realmgate Wars campaign books just because it feels so much like a parody. You're bombarded by literally hundreds of extremely bland names and nonsensical characters or places that feel like AI and at the same time you get huge and detailed art pieces every few pages. There's been so much work in this shit it's both funny and depressing

>>97763091
I guess Morathi technically has a new form? Everyone else was just Fantasy, from Bone Pope to Neferata. Stormcasts are less popular than making r63 custodes or marines or primarchs.

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>>97763091
the gay NuDragons

>>97714256
Because it's shit garbage for gay faggots

>>97715927
>This game is actually brilliant in that literally everything they did was wrong except for graphics.
A good metaphor for AoS in general. I still find myself wanting AoS models once in a while, mostly if there are nice sculpts of chaos or undead. Despite them being AoS, not because of.
>Marines, Genestealer Cults, Leagues of Votann, and World Eaters.
Votann is literally the only bad pick here.
>>97736300
>we have ghost with scythe, ghost with chain, ghost with lantern, big ghost, and ghost with chariot (ok that one's actually cool)
>>97745818
There are AoS factions with whimsy but it proves the point because they're WHFB factions. Gloomspite, Maggotkin, Soulblight, Skaven, they're all good, none new.
I would say FEC are the only good original faction.

>>97766863
>Votann is literally the only bad pick here.
When he says world eaters he means 40k world eaters not your idealized version of 30k world eaters where they are an actual complete range. Also ew to thinking thats actually a good roster.
>Maggotkin
that's completely Aos original, even the blight kings were a prototype for aos for the range. Id argue for gloomspite but Im not as invested in goblins despite my love of mushrooms as id like to be.

>>97752240
>the old guard
Alan Bligh did a lot to ground 40k too.
>>97752935
>Don't get is twisted, I've never played an aos game in my life.
Wow you're so disinterested and objective, you must be right.
>Anyway, my point is mainly that aos was created by the same boomers who'd been running the show for ages at that point.
Yeah, during the slump where 40k was carrying GW on its back due to sheer momentum.
>Kharadron, nighthaunt, and especially gloomspite.
Kharadron and gloomspite weren't fully original to AoS in the first place, Blanche was essentially doing a cover of his own song. He's also to credit for anything good about nighthaunt but he couldn't save it.

>>97766914
>he means 40k world eaters
I know, the unga bunga marines.
I'm not saying it's the best, I'm saying it's not bad. GSC as combined arms chaff, and WE as a strong but asymmetric enemy.
>that's completely Aos original
It's a completely natural evolution from WHFB Nurgle daemons and chaos warriors. It's Death Guard without guns, admittedly sculpted a little better.

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>>97766940
>Kharadron and gloomspite weren't fully original to AoS in the first place
Gloomspite sure they're just night goblins and friends, though I'd say blanche's concept art for them is a lot whackier than what we eventually got. His versions was more psychedelic and mutated, but that's just some trivia.
Anyway, how the fuck are kharadron not wholly aos original? Sure engineers and whatnot existed, but that's still a far cry from kharadron. Closest you get are the gyrocopters (the shitty 8th edition ones) but even then they're not really very similar beyond "tech dwarves"

>>97715330
>But it also feels like there's no stakes, especially since the Sigmarines literally respawn when they die
That's normal to GW. There's as many Elves as a story demands. Characters get newly introduced in 40k as having these offscreen conquests nobody has ever heard of. Planets that were just invented for the backstory get destroyed and have as much value as WHFB villages the writer poofed out of nowhere.

>>97722850
>WHF factions is that they are "relatable", like Bretonnia it's basically a fantasy amalgamation of medieval England and France and it is very easy to picture that
Jesus what the fuck am I reading. It was overly Arthurian slop after Stillman raped it. They made peasants inbred to insanity and the noblemen inexplicably unaffected even though they have to fight wars as knights errant to inherit property, property itself passed through family. It used to be more than 3 times in the country's existence but they made it over the top satire.

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>>97766863
>Votann is literally the only bad pick here.
>mfw

>>97761273
>can look at a map of The Old World, and trace the campaigns of Sigmar or Grimgor Ironhide across the face of it
I can't. They changed the maps so many times over editions that I can't keep track which is which edition.

>>97758193
This is 40k and even whfb in a nutshell in my experience. Finite on paper but infinite in practice.

>>97768196
Reminder that you can destroy infinite Imperial worlds and the writers will keep creating new ones. Destroy as many as you want, the Imperium will always have more. So long as it's not an actual plot important place like Terra or Ultramar, the Imperium can suffer any number of losses because the worlds you destroyed literally didn't exist before the story that destroyed them.

The Imperium is unstoppable. The Emperor has already won.

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>>97768184
It's retard fantasy Europe filled with retcons and completely unrealistic, ahistorical, Monty Python jokes. If you're not trolling then you're exactly the mudcore slurper who fundamentally misunderstands WHFB and even the /vg/ Total War general would shit on you.
Also fuck what they did to Bretonnia. Anyone who likes Stillman's Bretonnia is literally a child, at least mentally. It all reads like the most generic and fluffy children's book with a title like "My First Book About Knights" or something. Not saying Reynolds boring grimfest was any better, but dammit at least it had the big tweest of Bretonnian leadership being literally WElf plants. Controversial though it may be amongst HFY fans (I don't really mind it personally). Stillman's Bretonnia deserved being forgotten for providing 0 reasons for a player to engage with the army beyond "me likey the colourful horsies". Indeed most players I met who started Bretonnia in that era (2 guys but still) both painted their Brets as historicals (HYW Burgundians and Bretons respectively) and basically ran with their own fluff based on medieval France.
IMHO the best official stuff we ever got for Bretonnia was the KOTG sourcebook. /wfg/ hates it because it continues the hated plotline of WElfs controlling a lot of Bret society indirectly, but I quite like it. It does a lot to diversify the previously very one tone fluff with loads of examples that make the country actually come alive instead of being a thinly veiled ad for plastic miniatures.
Finally I just want to say that the French WHFB community had that shit down way better, I remember back in the days on the forums you had entire novels worth of fanfivtion about the baudy bon-vivant drunken knights of Bretonnia stealing wine from each other and massacring peasants by mistake.
obligatory pic of my Brets lest I get called a secondary

>>97768199
This in a nutshell. There's as many planets between each two important locations, random fortresses and obstacles as the writers add. And they often do.

>>97768201
Sorry, meant for>>97722850

>>97715330
That's a laugh. What mattered about Storm of Chaos?

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>>97714256
It's a testbed for 40k rules. What cultural significance? Nobody gives a shit besides what rules are tested and ported into 40k. This is part of why ToW has even less value, it doesn't contribute to the game that actually matters in any way.

>>97768199
The saddest truth about any GW writing is that. Empire has functinally infinite villages with how much writers write new ones. WFB towns, 40k systems, none of them matter unless it's Ultramar or Terra or some name brand location.
You also forgot to mention characters. They introduce characters that way too like a new dreaded Chaos Lord who killed the deadly Sir Just Invented or braved the dangers of Location Made Right Now. Didn't a writer for WFB say there's as many Elves as a story needs when asked how he writes stories where they die by the 1000s and brush it off?
>>97768201
Seconded. Stillman really thought he had something there and bulked the book with pages and pages of the blandest writing known to man. It features the most bowlderized arthurian style tale with the absolutely milquetoast progression of "brave and honourable knight bravely and honourably fights until he becomes a GK, end of story". If this wasn't warhammer branded I don't think it'd ever even make it onto the back of a cereal box, nevermind a whole 50 page bound paperback.
The whole thing was clearly written for an audience of under 12 yo boys, can we please stop pretending ye olde 90s WFB was some sort of work of artistic genius?

>>97768196
Mhm definitely yes for 40k but not do muh for whfb. It is really finite, but that creates another problem where gw is afraid to do anything since the evil guys destroying this or that inportant city actually matters, so it never happens. Or they just destroy the npc regions over and over again, like kislev. See also tamurkhan's big boy invasion getting to nuln and immediately getting btfo because nuln is actually important.

>>97768199
>>97768227
I think the reason the Imperium doesn't feel like it's declining is because we never actually see the Imperium lose anything important. Sure, sometimes some no-name marines might die, or a planet nobody has heard of will fall, but when was the last time an important character died or a famous planet was lost? Cadia's been replaced by New Cadia and it's not like the Cadians themselves got squatted or were at any risk of losing prominence in lore to other IG regiments. The galaxy cut in half mostly served to bring Votann into the setting by ruining their good spots so they're forced to find new mining zones. Who actually suffered in a tangible way other than losing an arbitrary number of never before seen worlds?

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>>97768233
>but not do muh for whfb
NTA but definitely for WFB. Every other Chaos Lord like the Glottkin are introduced with an Empire village being destroyed And I suffer from >>97768192's problem with how many times they change the map. The important places are recurring named cities like Nuln and Alfdorf but anything that isn't goes either way.

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>>97768248
Older map btw

>>97715330
>especially since the Sigmarines literally respawn when they die
Finally a non villain faction has that.

I'm tired of excuses why Imperial named characters survived losing whenever they do because plot.

>>97768253
Speaking of Imperial Plot Armor, IG competence is one. Basically the original lore for the Imperial Guard was that any time there was a problem that needed manpower, the Imperium would start grabbing people from nearby worlds and dumping them on the problem

But no one wants to read about how the Imperium won a battle by spamming millions of soldiers from a dozen different planets they have never heard of before

So most of the time, when the Guard appear in a novel, codex fluff, etc., at least some of them are from regiments that people have heard of before, like Cadians, Catachan, etc., even if the battle is nowhere near their home worlds. Also, they show up in laughably small numbers, yet still win anyways because plot armor

So you end up with two tiers of Guardsmen, the "PC tier" who can go man-on-man with anything short of a Space Marine, and still win if the plot demands it, and the "NPC tier" who suck as much as the plot demands it

>>97768255
Name recognition. People care more about Cadians or Krieg than Xth Fodder Regiment.

>>97768261
And models. This is a tabletop game.

I think >>97768233 says the same thing. But to >>97768233 I think that's >>97768196's point about infinite in practice too. They're happy to destroy NPC regions like Kislev or make up new places within the Empire to be destroyed. Nuln's comparable to Ultramar in 40k IMO in that it's got tons of conflicts even into the present but is too important and iconic that you can guarantee there's no true risk of destruction. And any damages they take will likely not stop their appearances in future stories.

Made a mistake, meant to write Nuln instead

>>97768268
>Ultramar in 40k IMO in that it's got tons of conflicts even into the present but is too important and iconic that you can guarantee there's no true risk of destruction
And if they lose any planets, it's npc planets

>>97768276
Redirect to
>>97768272

>>97768279
That's just GW writing. They want stakes or big effects but also don't have the balls to threaten locations anyone knows in meaningful ways. Not even
>But the production likes for weapon X are destroyed
to justify an edition squatting a mini.

>>97768283
*lines

Tonight I'm making too many typos.

>>97768283
In AoS they justified squatting some armies with their primary city lost or they took too many losses like the Beastmen to be a separate thing and not units already tied to a mono god army.

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>>97768294
Great, 40k is so lacking in balls that anon can give me game-meaningful consequences for locations being destroyed rather than
>CADIA IS GONE BUT THEY ALREADY HAVE A NEW CADIA AND CADIANS STILL CONTINUE SHOWING UP EVERYWHERE

Un-fucking-believable.

>>97768294
>>97768295
I think 40k's just too big. Cadians are too iconic for example. Fans would riot if Cadia's destruction didn't squat them but made them headily decline even if 100% justified.

But yes, this means factions or subfactions themselves are in no danger whatsoever even if they lose a home planet. It's worse than that time Gav Thorpe said there's as many elves as the story demands because it's like if Ulthuan's destruction did nothing to stop High Elves. I know ET is a thing.

Just chiming in, my take is GW has overused the whole Tolkien style offhand background lore reference or padded resumes of characters with victories nobody's heard of to the point it's desensitizing. I understand /yourdudes/ but it really gives the feeling nothing matters. it's like playing a video game with procedurally generated levels. It might have meaning to the individual but it's literally a dungeon the game made so you can clear it and clearing infinite levels like that might get you tons of EXP and items but you're not anywhere closer to places that matter by doing them. It's less than reputedly clearing Bethesda radiant quests because at least those locations themselves get reused and enemies respawn rather than poofing a location just for clearing.

>>97750247
>, he says aos was a creation of gw's old guard and not the millennial boogeymen
Clearly not the case if we are to go by the blocky ass models and millennial ass tranny face sculpts

>>97768320
Tolkien does it for world building too and sometimes we see them like how Gandalf mentioned
>not even Ancalagon the Black's flames can melt the One Ring
who was in the Silmarillion he could've released if he survived.

In most GW writing, we never get any. The most is if it's major enough or the character is important enough to show up in Horus Heresy. GW padding resumes are hollow in comparison.

>>97763316
>Heck in front of their building they have a clock that says IIII for 4
anon, are you genuinely blind?

>>97768295
Well to be fair they're always going to build in some backdoor for why those units are still around if they're not actively squatting them, they don't want to fuck over some dudes' army fluff for no reason. Models>lore is all.
>>97768338
>blocky ass
Aos? Blocky? If anything the sculpts are too dynamic at times. Or look at early models like fyreslayers, sculptors got too excited since they didn't have to have their units rank up anymore and went for retarded ass wide poses that made them all symmetric.

>>97768338
>blocky ass models
NTA but AoS models are one of the few things consistently praised among GW properties. I've had lots of anons at 40k threads say stuff like "Man why don't we get those?" with responses like "They have to actually try unlike 40k being so secure".

Strangely, I'm not fond of most times GW does a not!history. Cathay I find less flavorful than TK's Egypt because it's too bog standard China, the most difference is it's more Imperium. I liked Bretonnia more when before it wasn't nothing but Arthurian monty python jokes. IMO they're shit and not even GW flavor shit. Just generic shit in a way even fucking WoW is at least WoW flavor shit. I don't want 3 new human factions in this fantasy setting. Give more Elves or something.

>>97768593
The last thing either aos or whfb would need are more fucking elves. Aos has what, like 5 elf factions?

>>97768598
Then Dwarfs or zombies. It's a fantasy setting and if they're going to give anything alike Nippon, they might as well bring back Pariahs so Necrons can have their own GSC. As someone who spends time with WHFB but more in 40k, recently much more vidya and currently disappointed with TW WH 3 (and 0 expectations for TW 40k to be good because console RTS), the last thing I want is for more humans because I'm sick to death of Imperium armies being 99.999% of everything in 40k. There being 5 elf factions would make Eldar (especially DEldar) fans weep in envy.

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>>97768619
They tried to give 40k more eldar twice and it didn't work
(Seriously why were they their own codex?)

>>97768647
Well yeah, and Ynnari was a wet fart too. But that's one thing I praise WHFB and AoS for. Empire isn't the end all be all faction in WHFB the way the Imperium is. And when I saw Sigmarines being pushed back, that was what I wish more 40k players did. 40k players eat up Space Marines so much that when I say 99.99% Imperium, at least 90% of that is Space Marines. The attention AoS non-human factions got, fans of Xenos wish they got. When I saw pushing aside Vampire Counts for TK, having Beastmen (the least popular Chaos army), and Bretonnia (of all factions) while Dark Elves and other more WHFB popular factions didn't get starting roster? My first thought was
>Oh shit, we're fucked. We're appealing to a crowd that's not what greater WHFB majority.
Now if AoS is starting to do more human factions now and possible squatting or souping non-humans? It's a double "oh shit' from me.

40k's the way it is partially due to corporate and writer pushing armies, partially because the fans eat those pushes up. Xenos get jack shit compared to Imperium. I really hope neither WHFB nor AoS is heading that direction especially when I've seen non-human armies be among the most popular in ways Xenos wish they were.

I just wanted my spiky edgy elves. What the fuck are they now anyway? Witch elves are a separate entity ruling....what are they ruling anyway? And dark elves are....just random mercenaries or something? Fucks sake, how do you fuck up a simple concept like Dark Elves so bad?

>>97768672
From what I can tell,. Morathi is major while Malekith is planning but hasn't done much. Morathi straight up dived inside Slaanesh to eat up past Phoenix Kings for power to ascend to full godhood. Now she's not just absurbed but replaced Khaine too. The standard Dark Elves haven't done as much but Morathi Dark Elves are more monster-y along with Witch Elves.

>>97768660
And now Eldar get books by Mike Brooks. So yeah, shit sucks when you're an elf enjoyer.

>>97768255
Fifteen Hours, one of the most recognized IG novel, has two different regiments you never heard of before in a long stalemate against orks on a backwater planet who barely get the minimum military resources to continue producing promethium.

>>97766863
>>we have ghost with scythe
observe how this applies to other factions
>we have dwarf, dwarf but chain blades and dorf on salamander
not only do you have no taste you cannot fucking even communicate it.
the execution of the nighthaunts is extremely fucking good.

>>97715329
Excuse me, I'll have you know that being a genderless automata with a fancy gender name that they could just swap with 'millenial' is peak character development. Actual character development is probably racist or something.

AoS was just them realising that it was easier to mske fantasy more like 40k if they killed it first.

>>97772047
I do think there's something to be said about the nighthaunt silhouette being generally very samey across the range, except for the heroes I guess who get to be a bit more unique like bigass olynder or kurdoss on his throne. But yeah most of the infantry really is just bedsheets holding different weapons. They also don't have the luxury of different armour designs to differentiate between those samey silhouettes. It's my only criticism of an otherwise excellent range.