The evil cabal that owns DnD is putting YOU, yes YOU in charge of redesigning the class system for their next edition. You have total freedom, what changes do you make?Hard Mode: Make it so it's still 12 classes total, because 12 is a very good number that is pleasing to my brain.
I can't make changes I want without changing other parts of the game.But if I were to make one change: Paladin uses Wisdom for spellcasting.
>>97751168>I can't make changes I want without changing other parts of the game.This, and LOTS of other parts would have to be changed.
>>97751168>>97751234go for it, what would you change?
>>97751273Oh, just you wait.This is going to take a WHILE.
>>97751141We got back to 2e, with kits.
>>97751141Why would we redesign it? I would simply pull stuff out of splatbooks and make it work with the latest system.
>>97751141Progression for Subclasses is now 1/5/10/15/20 for ALL Classes.Quarter-Casters are now Half-Casters, and their Progression for Feats changes as they get their features at level 1 (all Half-casters have the same feat progression now, fewer than martials, greater than full casters).Bard becomes the Rogue Half-Caster. Arcane Trickster is removed.Artificer is now a Core Class.New Martial Feature: Martial Strikes. These are given to Barbarian, Fighter, and Paladin (Fighter gets one more). These are 4e-style AoEs for Martials they can use Once per Turn in place of an attack (cannot be used alongside other attack-focused features like Divine Smite). Fighter, Monk, Ranger, and Rogue now get Maneuver Dice and Maneuvers. Their dice are d6s and do not increase, fighters get additional maneuvers and dice, battlemaster gets more and scales.Martials get Martial Talents, think Warlock invocations but for martials. These are given to Barbarian, Fighter, Monk, and Rogue. Two are gained at level 2, and +2 at levels 6, 12, and 18.Clerics lose Heavy Armor entirely, and must choose between cantrips and weapons at Level 1. War Cleric is the only one that receives full Martial Weapon proficiency.Paldin smite goes back to how it was in 2014.Clerics and Paladins must now - baseline - worship a god or pantheon, and there are actual rules for falling and what happens when a character falls. Same with warlock patrons.Monk loses Stunning Strike, but gets a d10 hit die and that Tasha's feature to pick weapons to use as MOnk Weapons. It also trades its extra Flurry attack for a third Attack with the Attack Action at 11th (paladin and Ranger also receive this feature).Full casters have their niches made more concrete bar subclass spells. Cleric gets buffs/healing, Druid gets elemental damage and healing, Sorcerer is a blaster, wizard is about utility spells rather than damage. All fullcasters share the same progression.
>>97751141>12 classes in totaleasy -just name and fluff them as you want, but keep the rules consistent.STR-martialDEX-martialCON-martialINT-martialWIS-martialCHA-martialSTR-caster DEX-casterCON-casterINT-casterWIS-casterCHA-caster
>>97751524>keep the rules consistentSo make an entirely different system, got it.
>>97751273I mean, the only thing even resembling D&D would be tangetial relation through being fantasy, having character options that only vaguely resemble the 12 classes, and using the D20.Everything else would be changed or removed.
>>97751447I like it. Do you have any suggestions for altering the skill system? I personal really like 3.5's despite the fact it is janky.Also make an artificer subclass give more attunement slots. and make>must choose between cantrips and weapons at Level 1apply to them as well.I think sorcerer's should regain some metamagic points on a short rest and have subclass specific uses for itMonk stunning strike could be integrated as a maneuver (albeit nerfed)Should Ranger be more of a Druid/Rogue, Druid/Fighter, or a Fighter/Rogue?I would make paladins able to follow a "martial order" instead of a full blown religion (think knights of the round table). It would still have a code it would just add a little versatility
>>97751141Eldritch Knight is removed as a Fighter subclass and rebranded as a core Spellsword class.
>>97751897NTA, but I think Ranger's BASE identity should be Fighter/Rogue with any Druid stuff being given/expanded by subclasses
I remove most of the classes and start having sub-classes and archetypesNo fucking barbarian. No ranger. No paladin.You're a fucking fighter with primal spellcasting or divine spellcasting subclass.I'm fucking tired of this "bmx bandit class" garbage that mmorpgs has resulted it. The whole point of a class is to be an archetype, not some dudes random set of superpowers.
I don't know shit about 5th but my change is pretty agnostic so I'll apply it here.Remove Monk and make any classes be western by default. The Monk is replaced by a non-magical unarmed equivalent which reduces MAD greatly.
>>97751141>Remove all classes that aren't simply Fighter, Mage, or Thief>Remove cross-classing>Make it so that you have to roll a nat 20 on str, dex, or wis if you want to play. Anything less is an innkeeperThere. I have streamlined D&D forever.
>>97751897Personally I prefer 5e's proficiency bonus system. It's simpler, and works with how 5e is constructed. The way I'd change it is to give everyone a free choice of proficiencies when you take your Class. Rogue gets six skills, fighter gets five, Monk and Barbarian get 4, the half-casters get three, full-casters get two. Warlocks get to keep being weird and get three as well. Rogues, who now have bard as their half-caster subclass, get Jack of All Trades at level 1, with expertise at level 2. Fighters, Barbarians, Monks, Rogues, Paladins and Rangers also get a main stat boost to certain Skill Checks to further push martials as being good with skills.If you were going to go back to a points-based system, you would have to institute a hard cap of something like a max of +10 to a skill, and have Expertise do something like give a scaling bonus based on your Character level to avoid players rolling with more than a +20. As is, the maximum modifier you can have to a Skill in 5.5 is 19 (Level 20 Barbarian with Expertise and 24 Strength, only applies to Athletics). Skills would have to cap at +10 from Skill Points, with a max of +7 from Attribute (I'd give every class a similar feature to Barbarian where their main stat gets a boost and cap increase at level 20) so IMO the ideal play is to make Expertise give a bonus equal to half of the ability modifier (Rounded down, minimum 1) of the skill. So if you have a +7 in a Skill's Attribute, and 10 points invested into the Skill itself, and Expertise, you'd have a +20 to the Skill's checks.The thing about Artificer is that it's a Half-Caster. It doesn't have all the raw full caster potential that Clerics have, and would have a more limited spell list, so I think robbing it of weapon use would be a step too far, especially since most of the subclasses heavily rely on weapon use.
>>97751897>>97753401Sorcerer should get a selection of subclass-specific metamagics really, options they get as they progress alongside the generic ones. I think 5.5 sorcerer already has an ability to regain sorcerery points on short rest at around level 3-5?I don't think Stunning Strike is healthy for the game. In fact, Stun and Paralyze need to either be completely overhauled or removed as conditions because of how broken they are. It doesn't need to be part of monk's kit, especially with how many attacks it now gets and its d10 hit die.Ranger to me has been to Druid what Paladin is to cleric. There's a symmetry there I like. I think the animal friend should be core to Ranger as a mirror to Druid's Wild Shape with scaling and customization (a unique statblock rather than summoning an actual fucking animal because summoners are cancer in any TTRPG), and really should be more Rogue/Druid with their focus on exploration, nature, and hunting those who would do nature harm and all that. Also, hunter's mark shouldn't need concentration, but should only be able to be cast on one target at a time.Again, I've always seen Paladins as a sort of martial/warrior partner to clerics. Clerics are the voice of their god, paladins are the hand. It also adds more flavor to the class to have a Paladin have a god. I like the divine casters having to rely on the divine, it's more interesting than "My paladin believes in himself/his cause so much he randomly manifests divine powers".
>>97751141Fighters: Fighter (Defense), Barbarian (Offense), Ranger (Support), Rogue (Control).Clerics: Paladin (Defense), Cleric (Support), Druid (Offense), Warlock (Control).Mages: Wizard (Control), Sorcerer (Offense), Artificer (Defense), Bard (Support).
>>97753299What, we don't refluff Monk as gothic monastics? Beer 'n faith based skills rather than kung fu?
>>97753495Refluffing the Monk doesn't really sort the issues the class has. You could always have Gothic Monastics as an alternate feature to my generally simplified core class idea for a generic unarmedfag that minimizes MAD.
>>97753522They had the opportunity to do that with pugilist but it's liquid shit that ends up as being even more MAD if you end up picking the wrong subclass
>>97753540That is incredibly unfortunate. Generic unarmedfag should be the easiest shit in the world to not fuck up.
any idea on how to make it so clerics aren't just another spellcaster?
>>97751141I'd go back to fighter mage thief, would get rid of archetypes, and would expand the background system to give a little more than just a feat so that you can have combinations that feel like Clerics, Bards, etc from the get go.These classes would go only to lvl 4, then at lvls 5, 10, and 15, you get a new class from a list of classes Shadow of the Demon Lord style.No, I wouldn't balance anything beyond the first 4 levels.
>>97751447You mean 0/5/10/15/20
ArtificerBarbarianBardDruidFighterMonkPaladinPriestRangerRogueSorcererWizard
>>97751141Base Classes FighterClericThiefWizardAdvanced Classes:Paladin (Fighter+Cleric)Assassin (Fighter+Thief)Battle Wizard (Fighter + Wizard)Friar (Cleric + Thief)Druid (Cleric + Wizard)Bard (Thief + Wizard)
>>97753601this>>97751141split them into traditions and hybrids>Arcane: Wizard>Divine: Cleric>Expert: Rogue>Ki: Monk>Martial: Fighter>Primal: Druid>Arcane/Divine: Warlock>Arcane/Expert: Artificer>Arcane/Ki: Wu Jen>Arcane/Martial: Magus>Arcane/Primal: Witch>Divine/Expert: Exorcist>Divine/Ki: Shujenja>Divine/Martial: Cleric>Divine/Primal: Healer>Expert/Ki: Ninja>Expert/Martial: Warlord>Expert/Primal: Ranger>Ki/Martial: Samurai>Ki/Primal: Shaman>Martial/Primal: BarbarianYou can throw in other shit like psionics too I guess
>>97753425>I don't think stun and paralyze are healthy for the gameFair enough they are kind of shit. How about daze (on your turn you can only take a bonus action or an normal action) or restrain? I must admit I do like the flavor of punching someone so hard they get debuffs.What do martial talents entail? Since most warlock invocations are "you can now cast a spell" or "improve eldritch blast."I entirely forgot artificers were half casters.I have half a mind to write this down. This is fun.
>>97751141I'd refuse the job on the grounds that it's not worth doing, and show them my copy of 2e AD&D, pointing out that they would simply be asking me to undo 37 years of changes.
>>97751141Fighter - gets some mechanical bonuses when attackingWizard - gets access to some spellsPriest - gets access to some different spellsAdventurer - gets some mechanical bonuses when doing things besides attacking that they specialize in>Hard Mode: Make it so it's still 12 classes total,No.
>>97751141There's no need to redesign anything. D&D is in the best shape it has ever been. The game is incredibly popular and sells like crazy. Any changes would only hinder it's success.
>>97755981I mean... 2024 does seem to back up your claim. It's as solid an argument as any other.
>>97751141>You have total freedom, what changes do you make?Return it t >Fighting Man>Magic User >Thief >Cleric and have prestige classes for each of those that can be taken at starting level and alter the class abilities and level abilities. >Barbarian, Ranger >Sorcerer, Warlock >Bard, Assassin >Paladin, Druid each has distinct advantages at cost, none of which make them strictly better than the base class. Weapon and armour proficiency are dictated by class Skills are keywords linked to class. Attempting basic activities with a keyworded skill is an automatic success. Electric shock is applied to any player rolling for a skill without being told to roll by the gm. Feats are back on the menu. Each class has a list of feats they are restricted to, prestige classes change this list. Race adds another list. The list is short, no trap choices. HP is reduced so shit doesn't take forever. Combat rounds are 10 seconds again so each roll is a series of attacks and combat. Grid combat with granular combat is sold as a separate splat with a variety of new miniatures and maps like mtg as a cash cow. Only retards use this but it funds the rest of the game.
>>97751447>Artificer is now a Core Class.Kill yourself
>>97751524>STR-castersounds like it would be more of a thrower
The big change I'd make is giving every class an easy mechanism to adquire skills. I like how wizards can pretty much exchange gold for spells, as long as they stole from another wizard or got a seller. Give that to every class. The fighter can steal techniques but it takes money to properly train them, the clerics and palladins get a boost if they converted people. Give them a class based way to get mechanically better by interacting with the world.
>>9775114112 classes>Rogue - A stealthy fighter that gets bonuses when far from allies.>Thief - A stealthy item-focused class that always has the right item for the job, and skillmonkey potential too.>Catburglar - An elegantly stealthy acrobat who can freely move about the battlefield.>Highwayman - A stealthy controller who can shut down enemy movement or punish them for repositioning.>Mugger - A stealthy damage dealer who specializes in disarming attacks and exposing armor.>Mobster - A stealthy charismatic leader who can control the battlefield with his companions.>Ninja - A stealth master capable of using mystic techniques like smoke screens and substitutions.>Outlaw - A stealth-focused gunslinger that balances blade and sidearm. Can take on risky wagers by placing a 'bounty' on himself for a combat buff.>Pirate - A stealthy seadog that can strike from below water at no penalty and grapple about with ropes.>Guerilla - A stealthy revolutionary that uses ranged attacks from cover, and who can build traps in the blink of an eye.>Doorkicker - A stealthy aggressive initiator who gets up in the enemy face and shove them around with ease.
>>97751141>5th editionJust throw that trash out basically. >BarbarianDitches Rage, becomes a reliable lightly armored skirmisher who is surprisingly sneaky, diplomatic and hard body>BardHonestly I kind of hate them, and I feel like they have 0 fucking consistency or product branding outside of Dndism. Ditch Bards entirely, Throw Bard music bard inspiration, etc into Clerical. Many Pantheons have a musical god and now you can have a musical priest>ClericsGive these guys an absurd number of build options with a core of useful but not nearly as flashy spells. Bards, Druids, Rangers, Paladins, Warlocks. Cultists all live here. 'Divine Gifts' are chosen to supplement a lackluster spell list with shit like magic music or shapeshifting. >FighterKeep the core idea, High HP High Armor and give a reasonable amount of skills, sort of the urban equivalent to the barbarian, skilled in warfare not just battle. Class Feature is going to be an ability to store Overkill damage and Armor Mastery>MonkRenamed to Pugilist and most of the wuxia stuff dropped. Several Styles (Including asian kung fu styles etc just not crouching tiger rolling panda before the fire nation attacked the nations were at peace bullshit). >RoguesComplete the Fighter / Barbarian / Rogue triangle. They are excellent scouts and ambushers but better thieves and spies. Urban, tons of tricks to make the local lord's life hard, connections to powerful organizations, fences and the like. Rivaling even the local lords perhaps (rogues might be rebranded darklord or even edgelord). >Sorcerer/WizardThese guys complete the Sorcerer/Wizard/Cleric triad. These guys all cast spells. Spells dissallows armor (except by benefit of a divine gift of the clerics). Sorcerers are the '20 min workday' of the group and generally are considered scoudrels who don't do have of what they should do because of said 20 min workday. Also the most fraudulently copied because said 20 min workday lends itself to lying .
>>97751141 >16 classes>0 soul
>>97763712*36 classes
>>97751141no classes, only racesBarbarian: OrcBard: Dark ElfCleric: Humanoid avatars of KirinsDruid: NixesFighter: Humans, with paladins being just lawful fighters.Monks: Ogres/TrollsRanger: ElfRogue: HalflingWizard types: Swan Maidens or other bird humanoid-shapers.
>>97764973>Monks as Ogres/TrollsI wasn't aware Ogres and Trolls were heavy into mysticism.
>>97765159you never had any interest on it
>>97751141>Wizard, Sorc, Warlock, and Druid are all now one class that is given different titles based on which school(s) of magic they specialize in. Spells are less potent in general.>Cleric and Paladin are combined into one class. They get a different kind of power that doesn't work like magic and are typified by their allegiance with a specific deity and a need to do that deity's or church's bidding.>Fighter, Monk, and Barbarian are combined into one class that differentiates itself based on what kind of fighting style or combat specialization the player specs into.>Ranger, Rogue, and Bard are likewise combined into a new class called a Specialist. Like the rest, speccing into a certain skillset to differentiate their abilities>Subclasses are no longer tied to each class. They are instead separate progression paths that further augment and add new abilities to a character. You only get one Class, but can obtain multiple subclasses. If you want to be a swordsman who can enchant his weapon, that's a subclass. If you want your character to have good survivalist skills, there's a subclass for that. >Prestige Classes are back. They require combinations of subclasses and attribute scores. These also have in-game achievements attached to them. You're not able to become a renowned Bard whose songs are known all across the land if your character has never performed in a single public setting.>Backgrounds are tied to class and root your character to the world. Characters will have someone or some organization that trained them or that they studied under and those things exist in the world.
>>97765159>trollsYes. Its why WoW trolls are jamaican>ogresthe japanese interpretation very much so
Three classes (Warrior, Adept, Mage), and three archetypes; Scoundrel, Mystic, Bravo. Scoundrel manipulates luck, Mystic uses magic, and Bravo uses willpower to push themselves beyond physical limits.Mages and Mystics pick a power source; Arcane, Occult, or Primal that is its own spell list. Theoretically, a Mystic Mage could pick Arcane AND Occult, but this is intentionally sub-optimal, you're almost always better off doubling up.By combining these, you can make any classic archetype from multiple directions; a Warrior (Mystic [Occult]) makes a Paladin, but Mage [Occult] (Bravo) makes a slightly more caster-y Paladin. Adept (Scoundrel) makes a Rogue, Mage [arcane] Scoundrel makes a bard.
>>97751141Some classes are dumb or redundant dnd-isms, or should be subclasses. And a lot of them aren't particularly unique or could be subclasses.>Warrior (Fighter and Barbarian subclasses)>Rogue (Thief, Outlaw subclasses)>Ranger (Monster Hunter and Beast Master subclasses, no more spells)>Cleric (Priest/white mage and Paladin subclasses)>Monk (Punch man and ninja subclasses)>Wizard>Magus (replaces sorcerer, bloodline magic, lots of spellsword features)>Druid (Animal Druid, Shaman Druid, Pyromancer Druid)>Warlock is now a prestige class for other classes that fuck around with dark forces when they really shouldn'tThere, 8 real core classes down from 12. Core classes provide base features while subclasses start at level 2 and determine the direction you want to take your class. Bards are lame and don't need representation. The weaboo classes like monks and ninjas are better than bards.
>>97751524Trying to shoehorn every ability score to be useful to every type of character leads you to garbage like Pillars of Eternity's universally hated "strength wizards" system.
>>97768545Magus and Warlock are redundant. Cut them.Ranger should be either a Fighter or Druid subclass.
>>97753601>any idea on how to make it so clerics aren't just another spellcaster?Why shouldn't they be?
>>97769482Casters study and practice magic. Clerics are gifted abilities by their Deity. These should not be the same thing.
>>97771331This.Different sources of power that are described as being different should function significantly different. They shouldn't (metaphorically) amount to just a variety pack of watered-down juice boxes.
Reading this thread makes it quite obvious just how shit most of you fuckers are at game dev. Not a single change in this thread would make the game better in any fashion, with pretty much all of them making it far worse. I didnt think it possible but holy fuck the D&D devs are genuises compared to you retards.
>>97771744Nah. All of these ideas are great. Especially the ones focused on cutting down extraneous and superfluous classes that exist because they are legacy sacred cows that only exist because of Lifestyle Brand Identity™
>>97771784I get that the retards who prefer hyper minimalistic RPGs would like that, but you'd utterly destroy the game instead of making it better. Most people love the number of classes, and clamor for more classes. The idea that cutting the number down so you retards can actually remember what each class does is the very opposite of what people who play the game want. Youre contrarian weirdos who have no idea of what actually makes the game so popular.
>>97771868Why are you conflating popularity with good design?
>>97771744Nah. My change was objectively good.
>>97771868It's not about being hyper minimalistic, it's about there being an arbitrarily large number of classes some of which are redundant. Why are fighter and barbarian separate classes? They both hit things. One of them gets to get angry and add proficiency bonus to damage. The other gets to use more equipment, which most people don't really do in my experience. As much as I like barbarians, they feel more like a set of tropes that could be covered by a better background system than an actual class. Other classes, like ranger, have way too much shit packed into them, and actually would benefit from being simplified. If you make the ranger into "wilderness survival man" and give him a monster hunter subclass and a "I'm just a man hunting with my dog" subclass, that covers a lot of tropes without a bunch of unnecessary spells. Give the druid a druidic warrior subclass if you really want nature magic + martial ability. I genuinely think the game would run better if it was cut down from 12 classes down to around 8 and then you just added more subclasses to cover unique character ideas. While I enjoyed playing 3.5e the vast number of classes (many of which were shitty) didn't help game design. You can always go find a 3.5e group full of grogs if that's the type of game you're looking for.
>>97771868That's a wonderful pile of words that don't actually refute why people believe the classes should be simplified and combined. You even had to make up an argument that wasn't proposed just to deride it because you are genuinely fucking retarded.
>>97771868This >>97772059There's very little point to having both Sorcerer and Wizard if they're just going to be minor variants on the same mechanical function of a robed spelllcaster. If people are clamouring for new classes, it's probably because the existing ones all feel really samey and boring because there's so much overlap. Cutting down on the number of existing classes means that adding in new mechanically distinct ones becomes far easier to justify. The introduction of subclasses into 5e made it clear just how pointless a lot of classes actually are.
>>97772059>arbitrarily large number of classes some of which are redundant12 isnt large. And none of them are redundant. You're just a retard who doesnt understand the differences or the ways to actually make the classes interesting. You are the hyperminimalist retard who sees only the massively reductive idea of the class and thinks that should be the be-all end-all of what it is.>Why are fighter and barbarian separate classes? They both hit things.Because they do so in very different ways, alongside having features that further differentiate them, namely the barbarians rage and its expanded powers. They dont just hit people, a massively reductive idea of what the classes do, they hit people in different ways with different protective means, and using different class features to do things besides hitting people.The idea that the dude who turns into a giant/dragon/animal/etc when he gets angry (and further features to emphasize and enhance this) and the dude who swings swords/maces/etc really well (with various combat maneuvers), are the same fucking class is asinine and retarded.>the ranger into "wilderness survival man" and a "I'm just a man hunting with my dog" subclass, that covers a lot of tropes without a bunch of unnecessary spells.Congratulations, the PF2e ranger covers your every need and then gives them spells as an option they can have too. And the game still has more classes than fuckng 5e while still adding more. And each is mechanically different.>>97772328>little point to having both Sorcerer and Wizard if they're just going to be minor variantsWell its a good thing sorcerers have their bloodline and metamagic features alongside being spontaneous casters and wizards have their tradition feature and nominally prepared casting to differentiate them from each other. This retarded dismissal of what actually makes them different is why I say youre all minimalist retards unable to remember what makes them different.
>>97772563>spontaneous castersRetard
>>97772563>Spontaneous castingReta--oh, >>97772626 beat me to it.
>>97772563>12 isnt large. And none of them are redundantLolLmao even.
>>97772626Yes, spontaneous casters. They do not require a spell book and do not prepare their spells for the day. This has been the definition since their inception. Even with the weird shitty 5e wizard alterations making them closer to PF arcanists, they are still prepared casters and sorcerers are still spontaneous.The only retards here are you and >>97772643.
>>97772799That is just pathetic.
>>97772799You're right, anon, we're sorry. More classes is better. Forget 12, the game should have 60, so that players can search through pages and pages of class features to find the class that meets their fantasy rather than being able to pick a more general archtype and build what they want through gameplay. 5e truly is the perfect game, it's just not big enough in scope.
>>97751141Roll Barbarian and Ranger into one. It plays like Barbarian, but is powered by raw, primal nature magic. Split Druid in two. One class is now Shapeshifter, focused purely on shifting forms and transmuting their body with claws, thick hide, etc. Other is all about being a white robe wearing celtic druid that controls nature and beams down celestial magics via stonehenge-powered astronomic calculations. Expand fighter with signature ability or abilities depending on the weapon fighting style you choose. Fighter should be a universal platform to build anything from crackshot sniper to sumo wrestler. Roll Sorcerer and Warlock into one. Plays like a Warlock, thematically is Sorcerer. Call it Sorcerer. Give rogue actual combat skills that focus on proper fighting. Honestly just rip tactics die from Fighter and give them to rogue and call it guile dice or something and make the abilities sound like its dirty tricks. Abandon the Oathslop for Paladins. Here's the radical change - make Paladins the class for every kind of magical frontliners. Sauron? Paladin. Death Knights? Paladins. Eldritch Knight? Evicted from Fighter, now Paladin. Some tribal shaman mothafucka with flaming ungabunga enchantments? Yeah. That's a Paladin. And ofc trad Divine Warriors are also Paladins. If it wears heavy armor and uses magic to boost martial combat, its now a Paladin, and your choice is to pick which divine or magical source they use. Cleric loses most explicit support for melee combat and tanking, don't touch Paladin turf! Now is more about calling down bursty and flashy miracles from the heavens and be goodboys for their god (Paladins lose oaths, Clerics gain them)Add Beastmaster class. Sorta replacement for Ranger. Its all about controling a permanent companion character and executing combos between you two. Sub builds for ranged, melee or rider.
>>97751141-Spells are reduced and any thematically/mechanical similar ones are put together to reduce bloat. Certain schools of magic will have specific attribute requirements and skill checks where appropriate.-base subclasses like champion and Hunter are carved up and molded back into the base classes. It should be an option to not have to take a subclass.-Skills shape who your character is regardless of your stats. You don't have to be a bleeding retard barbarian if you don't want to be.-Paladin and Warlock are deleted. Oaths and Pacts become special feats that level up along with your character.-Druid Primal order would change the class dynamic: Warrior is a half caster but has more combat options with their wild shape. Magician gets more unique options with wild shape such as changing into a swarm of an animal-Cleric divine order gets a similar treatment. Protector becomes a half caster and inherits some of Paladin's kits-Fighting styles will have it's own level progression. Fighter automatical can use all fighting styles.
>>97772799>This has been the definition since their inception.Do you have an argument that doesn't rely on sacred cows?
>>97773084He believes that D&D is popular because of those sacred cows and that those are what make D&D good, rather than accepting that WotC has included them for decades because that's the brand image they've constructed.If they created a new edition of D&D where the classes were simpler, but exponentially more customizable, the younger D&D fans that started with 5e would probably love it, because making a custom character that is tuned to do the specific silly shit the players wants to do is the actual thing that they like about D&D.
>*bong rip*Do it like Gamma World 7e. Roll a couple of times on a big table filled with class stuff and combine whatever you get. Fuck it, put the races in the same table.
>>97751141I revert back to 3.5 and keelhaul every nigger that disagrees.
>>97777777
>>97786732Wasted.
>>97751141I issue the very simple directive that video games should be inspired by D&D, not the other way around.I also make sure everyone working under me has read books from at least 3 different authors on Appendix N which aren't Tolkien and Lovecraft before they even pitch any ideas.Then the actual class design:>Use the four broad class groups 2e had as a baseline to design the classes>Warrior(Fighter, Paladin, Ranger)>Rogue(Thief, Bard)>Wizard(Mage, Specialist Mages)>Priest(Cleric, Druid, Monk)Every class plays a role and the class groups help define the broadest archetype. Current game design trends focus hard on making every class have unique abilities, giving you a lot of fiddly rules across multiple rulebooks which become harder to remember as more are added. Prime requisites will also be back.>Remove warlocks, sorcerers, barbariansThese classes either overshadow another class or feel thematically superfluous. Don't need 'em.>Remove CHA castingINT is the arcane casting ability. WIS is the divine casting ability. CHA should be reserved for managing hirelings and making sure that paladins and bards have standards>Roll primal/nature back into divine magicDivine spheres will dictate what spells each priest class can use>MonksInstead of being designed as a flanderized Shaolin monk, these guys should be a priest class who master their minds and bodies as part of their faith. If bards are the arcane jack-of-all-trades class, monks should be the divine jack-of-all-trades class. They still have unarmed and unarmoured combat abilities, but not so good that they are dedicated front-liners. They are able to cast divine spells, but have a funky mix of spheres, so they don't make for good dedicated support casters/healers in combat beyond early levels.>Bards.No healing magic, unless you count bard songs accelerating healing outside of combat.
>>97786774>on Appendix N
>>97786774>fiddly
>>97786774>feel thematically
>>97786774>flanderized
>>97786989Good on you for picking out my minor spelling error. Unfortunately, you missed my use of>funky mixBetter luck next time.
>>97787063That didn't sound as completely retarded as everything else you said, so I left it alone.
>>97751141Ok, hear me out.FirstI take the money.ThenI shit on their desk and run.
>>97789565A compelling case, but the Pinkertons come after you, and you die.RIP
>>97751141I'd multiply by 10 the feats higher level Martials are able to do.No reason a level 15 barbarian can't knock down a castle wall by himself, or a level 13 fighter jump 30ft high.
>>97751141Stats are rolled.Charisma is no longer a main spellcasting ability for any class.Sorcerers have a 7th ability score simply called Magic they use as a spellcasting modifier.Psionics are back and you get to roll a 7th(8th) Psi ability score if you get good enough mental stats and get lucky. A warlock uses charisma and persuasion/deception, with wisdom and insight to negotiate spells and warlock powers & debts with their patron, to actually use the powers they'll use intelligence like a wizard. A warlock can have low cha/wis and still be powerful, just less versatile and likely have more debts since they signed a shitty contract. Debts include unsavory quests and loss of magical items. No Barbarian, no MonkTheir archetypes can be found under subclasses of fighter and rogue. Especially if you're psionically gifted.
>>97751141>Fighter (Includes Fighter, Barbarian, Paladin)>Rogue (Includes Thief, Bard, Ranger)>Cleric (Includes Cleric, Druid, Monk)>Magic User (Includes Wizard, Warlock, Sorcerer)Done.
>>97789955Monk can just be a subset of Fighter. Paladin should be a type of Cleric. Yes I know Monk was originally a variant of Cleric.
>>97790237There is a certain irony to knowing Monk was a Cleric derivative yet not referencing the same era where Paladins were Fighting Man upgrades.
>>97751141>Four classes - Fighter, Rogue, Caster, Hybrid>BAB is equal to HD, Save bonuses are 1/2 HD>Skills are reverted to 3.x's Skill Points>What 5.x has as subclass and class features are now feats with class/level/stat/other feat prerequisites>Gain an additional attack in your attack action for every 4 HD, at a cumulative -4 penalty per attack>Caster Levels (CL) are now standardized per pool, and when you first gain a CL, you pick your pool - Arcane, Divine, Ki, or Psionic>Scaling stat differs by spell>Arcane and Divine casters use spell slots; Divine casters get more slots, but fewer spells known, while Arcane casters get Metamagic and a greater number of known spells>Psi and Ki get significantly fewer known spells than traditional casters, but has a pool of Energy Points (EP) to cast with; Psi users get more EP, metamagic, and more spells known, but only recover EP on a long rest; Ki users recover EP on a short rest>Fighters gain 1 HD per level, 1 Feat every other level, 5 + 1/2 Int Skill Points per level, and 1 CL every fourth level>Rogues gain 1 HD every other level, 1 Feat every level, 10 + Int Skill Points per level, and 1 CL every fourth level>Casters gain 1 HD every fourth level, 1 Feat every other level, 5 + 1/2 Int Skill Points per level, and 1 CL every level>Hybrids gain 1 HD, 1 Feat, and 1 CL every other level, and 5 + 1/2 Int Skill Points per level>Other currently existing classes and subclasses are represnted through progression trees of feats tied to their respective class
>>97790237You don't understand. It's not a subclass. It just doesn't exist. If you want to play as a monk, then all that is is a flavor of cleric.
>>97790237Actually, the original monk class was a thief variant. Gygax based it on Shaolin monks he saw in a Chinese martial arts film and wrote them into later printings of OD&D. Monks as cleric variants didn't appear AD&D, but you had to dig into setting books to find them.
>>97791591>didn't appear UNTIL AD&D,Please excuse me, I am retarded.
>>97791591It was Cleric subclass in the 1975 Blackmoor book, though.
>>97751524>Barbarian>Ranger>Fighter>Rogue>Monk>Paladin>Musclemancer>Warlock>Druid>Wizard>Cleric>Bard
>>97771650One take on Clerics I've seen is making their divine abilities passive or context-based. No spells or spell slots, instead your God has a list of blessings based on their Domains and a set of Commandments that grant greater abilities when conditions align so the Cleric is in direct alignment with their God's goals.
>>97797317hmfeel like I'd want a table for how to measure the limits for that for most thingsCould be really funny though>elf cleric of Shevarash>god of hating drow>offensive spells against drow can be cast at will
>>97751141Personally I'd get rid of sorcerer and warlock and replace them with pugilist and gunslinger.
