This was really good. All his "guides to..." were pretty awesome. I really miss splats like this. Hell, I just miss a decent setting, period. Every single setting wotc has converted to 5e has been horrible. I got the Planescape 3 books package deal (I have a lot of nostalgia for that setting) about two years ago and it's still in it's shrink-wrap. I can't even open it. From what I've read they have basically massacred everything about it. Fuck wotc. It's the only 5e thing that I own and I'll never even open it. I remember getting a box set for a Planescape adventure and opening it and having it all read and mostly memorized before the weekend was up. Ravenloft was awesome, Dark Sun was awesome, Birthright was awesome. Wtf happened
>>97757573The Van Richten Guides to X were great, 2e/3e Ravenloft is the real Ravenloft not the 5e shit that raped the setting.
>>97757965Oh yeah. The guide to fiends was brutal. You have fought demons and devils but you haven't lived an adventurer's live until you fought Ravenloft fiends. I don't think we ever even defeated just one of them
>>97757573I also absolutely love this cover.
>>977575735e is much like modern video games, especially the casual ones. You have to pretend to be having fun.
>>97757573I think 5e eberron is their best setting, but even that was better in 3.5 when the rules were tailored to it
>>97757965FPBP.Most 2e/3e stuff was pretty good. Even the worst of it was >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 5e slop.
>>97757573Sort of. The idea of the setting was great, but it devolved into "low fantasy/human only slop" very quickly. With no options to play undead or a vampire. Very stupid for a whole setting that revolves around undead and vampires.
>>97757573>Wtf happenedHasbro.
>>97758339Every cover of that era was so badass.The Spelljammer ones are so clearly acid rock. Each setting had its own unique vibe aiming at a very different audience.
>>97758355I had fun playing the third part to a stranger things boxset, of all things. It was a murder mystery! I have really good DMs tho>>97758889
>>97758339Yeah it's bad ass. Those wings are wicked af
>>97759800I men, I can understand why. Vampires out the gate were minimum 15th lvl M-Us
>>97760234SJ was peak back then but only me and one other dude understood the atmosphere envelope rules, which is crazy because they weren't that hard to understand
>>97760514??? No they were not. They were 8+3 HD and might have the same abilities they did when alive. I think you are confusing them with Liches that were a minimum of level 18 M-Us before transforming.
>>97760234>Every cover of that era was so badass.This cover was bardass not badass.
>>97760234>badassThis cover was just bad. It really looks like someone phone it in, or painted with a phone instead of paint brushes.
>>97760234Nothing says badass like decorative glass blobs.
>>97760624I was thinking about 1e, maybe. I'm very capable of being wrong tho. Happens every day. Thanks for the info
>>97760638That's oil if I'm not mistaken
>>97760234This isn't bad, it's serviceable, but I wouldn't call it badass.To make this exercise interactive, look up the TSR 1992 product catalogue. Easley did a badass dragon and I guess some of the rock is okay It's a pity the dragon is in the background. Even more of a pity are the three figures it's behind which are done in a very different, much less skilled, almost amateurish style, and which are fringed with white to make them look like they were pasted in as part of a bad composite. A lot of TSR covers were badass but a lot were mediocre or worse.
>>97760638Dragonlance got kinda fucked over, didn't it?I like the the logo a lot, but I know the creators hated that they added a lance to make clear that Dragon Lance had lances.
>>97760644The cover sucks, but the logo is awesome. I could see someone who had no clue about D&D seeing it and giving it a shot (if it had a better cover pic or they just saw the logo somewhere)
>>97760736The late 80's-early90's had some weird artists trying to make stuff look "comic book" and failing to make a nice looking picture. I think current artists even out a lot through the internet now, there are guides and references and shit that you just couldn't get back then. Up to this point I was solid on defending at least the logo, I still think all the D&D settings got really solid logos that sold their particular tone. But your example is just awful. I can't see people buying that outisde of the bargain bin. I'm starting to accept that TSR was publishing more than they could properly develop at any step of the production chain.
>>97761643I used It Came Fro The Late Late Late Show as an example of bad art in a comic book style. I think the game has some really interesting meta concepts that I'd like to see reinvented without all the old game bagage.The concept is that you play a character in a cliche horror setting, but you also play the actor playing them. So instead of XP you earn fame that you can invest in acting skills that help you get better movies, like stunt actor training or languages. But you can also burn it to break out of character and insist the director changes stuff or ruin the movie creating a lost scene that will make you less popular but you are safe from the danger. It's a really interesting meta coin that works with the concept of the game in a unique game. It's awful to play but it had really interesting ideas about what ttrpgs could be.
>>97759800Requiem you absolute scrub. Try doing more than parroting some fagtuber about it.
>>97761620I have always liked that logo tho. I would bet good money that Elmore designed it
>>97761626That was the standard 2e logo I do believe
>>97761658Damn. The premise sounded good too. I would have sprung this on my players. I bet at least one of them would like it. They're weird enough!
>>97762187Chiding ppl for not knowing an obscure 1 off for Ravenloft is retarded. You are retarded. Stop posting forever
>>97762304Aww, what's the matter scrubby? Mad that your fagtuber didn't mention the boxset when telling you what to think? Awww.Your mom still thinks you're kewl.
>>97762314>Anon has fags on the brainVery telling
>>97762187Requiem is an adventure module that treats undead condition like a disease to be cured. If the player character actually becomes a full vampire or undead it says you must kill him. You would actually know this if you had read the slop you're trying to defend, secondary.
>>97757573I mean, to be fair TSR in the 90's was hemorrhaging money. But there was definitely still a sense of fun and wonder. A willingness to take risks. Books with lavish art that were fun to read, like the book about Waterdeep written like a tourist guide or the Ravenloft campaign set in 1890's Earth.With 3E you can see the influence of CCGs from Wizards of the Coast. Each splatbook felt like a CCG booster since they included new feats and prestige classes.
>>97762909That is a bad ass picture of an ogre magi. Thanks for sharing
>>97759800Because it was a setting for "vampire hunters". That was a bit of a thing at the time's pop culture, and when you think about it, it's more badass. And as >>97762187 pointed out, that eventually happened.>>97762304It was kind of a big deal when it came out, RPG magazines outside of Dragon mentioned it and all.>>97762909This a Birthright cover, right?>>97761643>>97761658This game looks like an absolute blast.
>>97764172Yeah I knew about it but I'm a forever DM.
>>97764172Read >>97762874 and stop being a secondary who is pretending to be an oldfag.>it's more badassBeing a moralfag goody two shoes is the opposite of being a badass.
>>97764640That's funny because I don't recall a cure in it, and I used to own the box (not just a module btw). There IS a "clock is ticking" thing with the alignment chart, so you better find a way to resurrect the party, but vampires were never as simple as a "disease" on AD&D.Also, that's just how it goes on Ravenloft. You don't get to have fun forever being a monster, it's not supposed to be "cool", as that's just not how gothic horror goes. It's a horrible campaign to have a curse.Hunting down monsters in Ravenloft is also always punching up, so you're not only coming off as new, but too wet behind the ears to tell what's badass.
>>97762299>>97764172It's realitively easy to find, I think it's on scribd. Someone once shared a trove with all the expansions in the share thread so you can look it up. They added cowboys and kaiju and stuff.The game itself is not particularly fun, you'd have to do a surgical job to extact the good bits and inject them in a better core system. But it's a strong concept.
>>97766018I cbf to convert anything anymore. It's a lot of work that no one will ever see
>>97766018Thanks for the heads up!>The game itself is not particularly fun, you'd have to do a surgical job to extact the good bits and inject them in a better core system. But it's a strong concept.Aw, that sucks. It is a great concept.
>>97767480If you make something good enough you can show it as your own thing and sell it or get other people to make content for it. You can't copyright mechanics so do whatever you want.I once saw a really dumb and awful system for B-movie style things that had the great idea of making the stats bad things. So the bimbo being chased by the slasher in the beach has to roll over her clumsiness, the hot life guard has to roll over his obliviousness to recognize her screams, and so on. I made a 6 page zine, those you fold as a booklet, with a super distilled version of just that and I give them to people as a joke gift. I don't think anyone has ever ran it but a handful seemed to have a blast. Making stuff is fun, even when it's stealing.
>>97767641Oh I agree it's fun. I write a lot for my games and 90% ends up in a box where it'll never surface for air again. This goes back to 1985. That's a long time to give a shit when your players don't. I still write but it's just extremely relevant stuff. No detailed history about a sage that studied magical swords. It's useful stuff if the players ever decide to investigate "who wrote this book about my awesome sword?" But they never do. They don't even write down the sage's name for future reference. I've caught them up in some shenanigans this way but it's an easy gotcha that I never enjoy. I write stuff down pertinent to my character but honestly, I only know you guys and me that actually do that. Real forever DM shit. I can post some 2e stuff I made if you would like to read it, a sword I named Spellsinger. It's not a long read
>>97759490Champions of Darkness was pretty bad.
>>97765253>it's not supposed to be "cool"It's not supposed to be moralfagging either but I guess the developers of Ravenloft didn't gave a fuck about that.
>>97773750What are you even trying to say? That Requiem was moralfagging? That it wasn't? Do you even know?
>>97773787The whole setting of Ravenloft is.>you can only play as the goody two shoesIs why the whole setting felt shallow despite some good elements.
>>97774320Players are fully expected to end up a bit cursed or/and a bit marked with madness or horror across the campaign. But if they go too off rails they'll just be more monsters. There won't be much to follow up on.I mean if you wanted to play gay vampire cliques, Vampire the Masquerade was right there across the street.
>>97757573New Ravenloft book coming out for 5e, pretty exciting stuff.
>>97776774Yeah, I saw that. The new stuff is too homogenized for me. It's lost a lot of quirkiness. I forget what they did to the Vistani but I didn't like it. I liked the "People of the Veil" and now they seem generic. I might give it chance to read and if it's worth a damn, I'll get it but my hopes aren't high. I'm gonna run a game at an lgs and it's probably gonna be Ravenloft but I'm going to use almost exclusively the old lore. I might even get paid for this game idk. I hate the idea of monetizing a game but I'm disabled and on a very limited budget. D&D is something I'm actually good at though I will wince inside every time I get paid
>>97776799Yeah I see what you mean, I was excited for Spelljammer and didn't get it when I heard how bad it was.
>>97776820I liked it but they neutered the shit out of the rules. A lot of the lore was dropped and hell, that was some of the most interesting stuff about SJ. I got the 3 book Planescape set and I've never even opened the shrink wrap. I'm literally afraid to see what they did to it
>>97776774>pretty exciting stuff?>>97776928From what people said, they did the usual... California.
>>97778778California? Wdym?
>>97778966Oh you know, the world outside your* window, happy mind flayer food carts, gith pride parades or whatever.
>>97779122Oh gotcha. They dumbed down the fantasy elements seems like what that means. Ah, too bad. Planescape had great potential to be any kind of genre game you want
>>97760638>levels 2-4 God, so many memories of just getting swamped by certain modules because there's a big difference between 4 level 2 characters and 5 level 4 characters. I mean, in hindsight a lot of them were originally meant for big convention games and so need to be modded for groups that aren't 6 people, but as a kid I assumed they were thoroughly playtested and not to be messed with because they were written by The Experts.
>>97779262Monte Cook never playtested anything he ever worked on and it shows. That hack should have never been given a job. He couldn't catch a cat at a zoo
>>97757573>I hate what they did to Planescape so much that I'll buy it and not use it
>>97760644>Treasure MarsIt's a space pirate adventure? That sounds cool.
>>97757965>boo hoo, 5e ravenloft is bad because there's female representation and I'm an incel, boo hoo hoo
>>97779312It was a gift, you fucking retard. Things outside of your scope regularly confuse you, I bet
>>97779354Yeah, it's awesome. You get to have unprotected sex with curvy martian sex pirates with big titties and wet pussies. Their assholes shoot out shurikens and d20s. You should pick it up
>>97779376It's bad because it's been neutered to hell and back. I don't have problems with any women representation in any gaming products whatsoever and never have.
>>97779376No, it's bad because they destroyed the core and made it about weekends in hell instead of a consistent settings where nations and darklords plot against each other.
>>97757965Real
>>97776030Then just say you enjoy the moralfagging aspects and pegi-13 Disneyland part of the setting, instead of changing the goalpost 3 or 4 times.
>>97779683Show us on the doll where the bad Ravenloft touched you
>>97779697None because sexual jokes are not allowed in pegi-13 settings like ravenloft
>>97779934If you want to play FATAL, just say so. The satanic panic fucked things up for years. Hell, it's still going on in parts of the country
>>97780101Damn, even FATAL rapes Ravenloft?
>>97780313Not at all. I'm js. You can make Ravenloft as brutal as you want, with werewolf rape, ghost fucking, vampire gore, whatever. It's your game, not anyone else's. My games would never be approved by wotc and idc. My players like them and that's what matters to me
>>97778778Well if what the say isn't corpo speak, it looks like they are going to try making D&D deeper, harder to get into, more reason to stay. I've heard people talk about how the new Ravenloft book will likely carry more domains of dread.
>>97780433The IP belongs to Hasbro and WoTC and they're very annoying about it. They're the ones who decide what is canon and what is not. If I'm going to make my own game in my head that has nothing to do with the poorly written setting that is ravenloft because is devoid of any real dark themes then I don't need the setting to play it. But I already grew tired of this conversation because since the beginning is clear you don't have anything interesting to say because you probably didn't read the setting (reason why you seem to think the game exists in your head rather than in books and supplements).
>>97780525It has a lot already. I wish they would just focus on what's already established instead of inventing 20+ new things hardly anyone will even use. Wyatt writing with Darkon? Blutspur?
>>97780647Oh I'm just versatile. I have read it all. I just don't like you. You're a pedantic bitch. Bool! The end
>>97780525Considering what they did to the domains and lords included in the main book, I don't see how that's gonna be exciting, but good luck there, man! For real.
>>97757573Loved those 90s ADD settings too.These days if I want a good setting, I go to indies, OSR or the JC for Glorantha. Lots of digging around involved, but the good stuff still exists when goods writers who are passionate about what they are doing are behind it.As for the rest… it’s just corpos killing nerd culture, as usual.
>>97779376It's bad because it tries to sell itself purely on vibes, while asking too much of the GM to put those vibes into practice, while simultaneously not actually giving the GM any shit to work with (because the mechanical granularity of 5e ends at attribute check and advantage). This is the case with every single 5e product, but especially with their setting overviews. If the book is advising me to write it myself, then why the fuck did I buy this fucking book? Why would anyone? This is not the case in 2e.It's actually completely insane how good 5e Gothic Earth is in comparison to how utterly dogshit Ravenloft is. They could have just ripped that shit off and added more on top of it, but no, they needed to replace it with nothing instead, lest their college dropout ghostwriter creative spirit be restrained. I don't want to know about what the gender of this elf is nigga, how about you tell me how horribly cursed he is and what the various ways of his curse being lifted are.
>>97784717It's Gothic Earth third party stuff? Sell me on it
>>97784730It's just pretty much what every splat is supposed to be, setting-specific rules rather than trying to make your dragonborn monk work in Birthright.- completely different class system from core 5e, more fit to the setting- various rules adjusted, spells behave differently, available feats are different- dark powers check and table, big focus on ritual magic, magic has repercussions, being a magic user is a commitment (you will die horribly or get NPC'd)- fleshed out city of London to start inhttps://fraternityofshadows.com/Library/Gothic_Earth_Primer_v1.0.pdfJust steal the pdf and check it out, I guess. The only thing I have a misgiving with is that Cantrip-like powers really shouldn't exist in Gothic Earth, but for a short campaign it's completely fine. (It gets a pardon because 2e gothic rules for magic are completely retarded anyway, ten rounds casting time for my fireball? enlarge person causes a system shock not to die? sign me the fuck up, not.)
>>97784717>It's actually completely insane how good 5e Gothic Earth is in comparison to how utterly dogshit Ravenloft is.What I found funny was the 5 Minute Workday treatment of Ravenloft proper (being basically just a conversion guide for 2e/3e shit). Since Wizards were dumb enough to put everything RL-related on 90% discount when VRGR released, you could get all the 5MW conversions plus Domains of Dread for something like a third to half the price of the 5e book.
>>97784789Ah, that does sound good. Thank you, anon! I will check this out posthaste. Always looking for me things to incorporate into my games
>>97780433Using WotC's content in a way they don't approve of is literally rape.
>>97784789uhhh city of London?
>>97786669It's not literally anything you fucking mongoloid
