>two-handed does more damage>one-handed attacks with more accuracy>dual-wielding allows for more attacks>a shield inreases defenseThat can't be all. There must be more.
>>97765992you are not ready to wield the three-handed greatersword
>>977659923.5 has ya covered if you like two handing
>>97765992Historically, two-handed's crucial advantage is about reach more often than sheer force as you can manage a longer pole, one-handed is more complex precision and positioning stuff than basic "accuracy", while dual-wielding is typically about versatility of opportunistic "off-hand" attacks being better than bashing somebody with a buckler rather than routine aggression.As for additional considerations, there's many more features than basic hand occupation to differentiate weapons with, like having weight mean something more than your Encumbrance accounting or the many different profiles of penetrating certain kinds of defense.
>>97765992One-handed main advantage is, was and continues to be the fact you can use shield with it, nothing else.
>>97766154Do riot shields actually do anything? They look pretty flimsy.
>>97765992You're ignoring the individual properties of the different weapons within the context of the game.>Two-handed weapons have things like Reach to give you better melee attack range or extremely powerful Magic Items like the Vorpal Greatsword>One-handed weapons let you use a shield alongside them or dual wield, and many have Versatile for more damage when used two-handed or properties like finesse which let you use a better stat for damage>Dual-Wielding also grants you more on-demand versatility with your damage types, and many weapons that can be dual-wielded can also be thrown and have finesse>Using a shield lets you avoid damage and some feats can give you attacks with the shield itselfAnd then you have to factor in things like Melee vs Ranged, because having two one-handed weapons with one melee and one ranged gives you a shitload of combat versatility, or you can use a ranged weapon with a shield to have great defenses and a solid ranged option, and then in 5.5 you ALSO have to consider masteries which all have some sort of benefit that you take into account, and again some Magic Weapon types are locked to certain Weapons so that's something to consider as well. And as >>97766026 said other editions have more variance in weapons (though I'd argue it's to a point of tedium and there's a middle ground to be found elsewhere between the braindead nature of 5e weapons and the bloated nonsense of 3.5.)>BUT I WASNT TALKING ABOUTYes you are. You're talking about 5e/5.5e. We all know it.
>>97765992I like how PF2e does it. Two-handed weapons give you access to the biggest damage dice. One-handed weapons trade smaller dice for two main benefits: easy access to athletics-based combat maneuvers, and access to the Battle Medicine action, which both require having a hand free. It's a damage-versus-versatility deal. Wielding a shield gives up that versatility but provides two benefits of its own: access to the Raise a Shield action, which is by far the easiest defensive action to get ahold of and stays relevant up through level 20, and access to the Block reaction and its associated feats, which essentially just allows you to offload some of the damage from a hit onto the shield itself, until it breaks.Dual-wielding is a special case because it gives up everything else: the big damage dice of two-handers, the versatility of one-handers, and the defensive benfits of a shield, for a very specific reason: access to the Double Slice feat--which is probably the best offensive feat in the game--and its associated chains. Double Slice is one of the extremely few ways to avoid the game's multiple attack penalty, and the more you invest into it the better it gets. There's also equipment to fudge these lines. Putting spikes on your shield, for instance, allows you to to both use the shield defensively and as a dual-wielded weapon. Gauntlets count as weapons as well, meaning that you can potentially have a free hand for the purposes of shoves and grapples while still qualifying for Double Slice. There's a lot of crunchy stuff there, if that's your thing.It should go without saying that this isn't an attempt to replicate the real-world use-cases for these fighting styles, but when it comes to creating a mechanical niche for each style, I really like how they did it.
>>97765992>one-handed attacks with more accuracy
>>97766555Looks good enough for rocks, clubs, maybe a stray molotov until the shield itself starts burning. You're not gonna be fending off battleaxes and chainsaws.
>>97767093Then again, I must wonder how effective they are against whips like bike chains
>>97766555>>97767093>>97767099While standard riot shields won't do anything against stuff like swords or bullets, there do exist stronger, specialized shields now, picrel. Basically, imagine them as big ass bullet resistant vests (Bulletproof is generally a misnomer similar to silencer for suppressors). Maybe it won't tank a .50 cal but one of these things could probably stop a sword or axe once or twice, and could definitely take several low-caliber rounds.There are also proper, heavier, metal shields that are a pain to use (similar to ye olde tower shields) that could definitely handle melee combat to a competent degree.
>>97767082
>>97765992What about hand-holding?
>>97766555>>97767093>>97767099That plastic is not the shit you make to hold soda, it's pretty fking tough. Even a chainsaw is gonna take some time grinding thru it. And you wear riot armor and a helmet because of shit like bike chains. It's almost like the chumps who choose to stand that thin blue line put some thought into being able to go home afterwards. The only thing that keeps rioters alive is police restraint (and god bless their ability to do so).
>>97765992In reality, 2 handed weapons are faster, stronger and more accurate, but come with the obvious disadvantage of having to employ both hands.1 hander allows for shields and more range by lunging. And you can grab shit during battle.Dual wield gives you good counters
>>97767708I dont think thats true. There are countless examples of police forces in full gear retreating or otherwise refusing to engage any rioters willing to actually overrun them. At the end of the day, a shield you hold with one hand wont work once an enemy pesant grabs it with two hands and pulls it away. Will you still be able to fight once pulled to the ground? Will your armour still work in that state? If by restraint you mean not showing up with rifles and killing everyone then sure, but that cuts both ways with protesters having the restraint to not sit on roofs with armour piercing rounds or thrown incindiaries, since no ammount of shield or armour can stop you from being on fire
>>97768371The shields are only one piece of the "less than lethal" riot control strategies. They only hold the line while shit like rubber bullets, tear gas, sonic weapons and mace keep the protestors back.
>>97765992What wespons are there in your setting?
>>97768382Until determined rioters also bring ballistic shields, soft body armour and enough respiratory protection to throw back gas grenadesNeither side wants that fight to escalate, but if it does the cop gear and training advantage will never offset the defenders getting to entrench and their 500:1 numerical superiority
>>97765992What?No.That's almost entirely wrong.>two-handed does more damage2-H weapons consider the target's Critical Range higher than 1-H ones; so instead of +1 for blunt force, +2 for cutting, & +3 for thrusting, it's +2, +3, & +4 respectively.So sure, there's a better chance to injure your foe, but they don't inherently "do more damage".>one-handed attacks with more accuracy"Accuracy" tends to disappear into the abstractions of endurance, fighting stamina, & luck in the chaos of battle, when the hit location & defense checks are rolled. You can use the "focus" skill to choose which feature you want, but you can only choose 1 focus target per turn & you become more vulnerable to any other hostiles on the field & less reflexive against them.There aren't any skills that are distinctly more accurate than another. Hit or suck AC wastes too much time.>dual-wielding allows for more attacksThis is true to a point & not exclusively for dual wielding.Unarmed strikes are king when it comes to follow-ups & repeating attacks, higher level skills are empowered depending on the user's chain of attacks. Lighter weapons do have follow-ups & repeat chance, & this is helped by dual wielding, but if you really want a style revolving around multiple strikes, unarmed is the way.>a shield [increases] defenseNot necessarily, but they do offer more defensive skills. General rule of thumb for weapons design is the larger the surface area & the lighter they are, the less they penalize the wielder's reflex rating; & reflex is integral to the defensive skills that negate damage, it's true, but "increases defense" is a vastly reductive way of explaining it.Additionally, shields can offer plenty of offensive options; round shields may be cast like a discus for a ranged option if the hero lacks others. Heater/kite shields have powerful smites to move opponents around, & tower shields can cause quakes and full-body damage in addition to zoning abilities.
Bless the anons that bring actual games up.
>>97765995Don't underestimate my power.
>>97765992>long stick pokes further away>short knife or knuckles good in a brawl>nets, tanglewire, etc. can trip or contain >clubs, saps, etc. knock people out from behind>some weapons are better at penetrating certain kinds of armordid you even fucking try? the list just goes on and on
>>97770110Succor?I barely know 'er!
>>97766555>Riot shield>FlimsyAsk me how I know you never been to a single demonstration or a football match.
>>97770608I don't think that is the flex you intend it to be.
>>97770533Yeah, that joke sucked.
>>97765995Can six people dual-wield two three-handed greaterswords?
>>97770533The game is a bit of a keyword salad, but also pretty damn atmospheric.
>>97781218I read that as six armed people and it got me thinking what the best way to hold them would be
>>97765992>dual-wielding allows for more attacksThis one always puzzled me.Aren't off-hand weapons mainly supposed to be used defensively?My fencing knowledge is somewhat limited.
>>97781968Yes, in real life. However, in fiction, and in terms of gameplay, it is better to have them give more attacks or reduce the penalty for multiple attacks depending on the system.Sure, you could give them some sort of reactive defensive bonus instead, but that's not the fantasy people generally want out of it.Of course, if you're running a simulationist or realism-focused game, they should be defensive tools. That much is obvious.
>>97767154>could definitely take several low-caliber roundsWhile an extreme case that squirts the limit of the definition of a "shield", the ramses shield was used during the 2015 french terror attack by anti terror force in the assault, tanking around thirty AK shots
>>97781995NTAI always considered unarmed attacks to be best for both multiple strike barrages and reactions, with progressively heavier hand equipment progressively having reduced ability to strike consecutively or react quickly; and I don't even care about "thimulathionithm" or realism or what other people's fantasies are, I just care about making and playing a game.
>>97781995Oh, OK. Thanks.I mostly play old Stormbringer (RQ II) and Hawkmoon so dual weapons are hardly a thing there,
>>97765992>forceful strikes better versus armored>skillful strikes better versus unarmored
>>97766131>Historically, two-handed's crucial advantage is about reach more often than sheer force as you can manage a longer poleThis only applies while you wield a polearm, though. Lunging with a one-handed weapon will frequently give you more reach than swinging a two-handed sword - which were often specialized for tasks such as crowd control or breaking pike formations.
>>97765992>light one-handed weapons vs heavy one-handed>unarmed strike>weapon and shield style for shield bashing while retaining defense bonus>thrown melee weapon specializationMaybe ain't much but it's something
>>97783115Meant to reply to>>97766555
>>97783127?
>>97782125Okay but what KIND of AK. Are we talking legitimate Russian AK-47s with rifle-caliber ammo or are we talking some chinese bootleg firing an intermediate cartridge?
>>97784265>legitimate Russian AK-47s with rifle-caliber ammo or chinese bootleg firing an intermediate cartridge?
>>97785089a true blue AK-47 fires a full-sized rifle cartridge. Most "AK-47"s are actually later variants that fire a smaller caliber or bootlegs of said variants, namely the AK-74. China loves its shitty bootlegs and so does the middle east.I'm asking you if the weapon was firing 7.62×39mm or 5.45×39mm. There is an important difference here.
>>97785339>>97785089And yes, 5.45×39mm is an intermediate cartridge similar to 5.56mm NATO. Not identical, but it's in the same "class" similar to how 7.62x39mm is in the same ballpark as 7.62mm NATO (.308).
>>97765992Well. There's Unarmed.
>>97785339No idea if it's trustworthy, but https://www.academie-medecine.fr/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/P.705-712.pdf seems to indicate 7.62.But to be fair the ramses shield is more of a wheeled wall
>>97765992Who are you quoting?
>>97766555You're right, they were invented and are widely used because they are completely worthless. You cracked the case.
>>97765992Area/Burst: These features work like the Pros of the same name. For ease of reference, you can assume that all Burst weapons have a 30-foot diameter area of effect, except for Stun Grenades and Entangler Grenades, which have a 15-foot diameter area of effect.Armor Piercing: This feature works like the Pro of the same name.Binding: The weapon is used to capture targets rather than hurt them. Although the weapon doesn’t inflict damage, it can still be used to perform grabs, holds, and combat stunts.Braced: The weapon is too heavy to use effectively unless braced or mounted on something. If you have at least 6d Might, however, you’re perfectly capable of using this weapon in two hands.Dazzle: The weapon works like a version of the Dazzle Power with a Power rank equal to your attack rank (your Trait plus the item’s Weapon Bonus).Ensnare: The weapon delivers an attack that works like the Ensnare Power with a Power rank equal to your attack rank (your Trait plus the item’s Weapon Bonus).Flexible: The weapon is flexible, like a chain or whip, and can be used to perform grabs, holds, and combat stunts as well as to inflict damage.Irritant: The weapon works like a version of the Irritant Power with a Power rank of 3d plus your net successes on an Easy (0) attack roll (using your Agility plus the item’s Weapon Bonus).Launcher: The weapon fires grenades. Select the grenades separately. Although they have identical statistics for game pur- poses, these grenades aren’t the same as those tossed by hand.Line of Sight: This feature works like the Pro of the same name.Penetrating: This feature works like the Pro of the same name.Readied: This feature works like the Con of the same name.Shield: The weapon serves as a shield and provides a +1d Shield Bonus.
>>97785745Shock: The weapon inflicts damage and also delivers a carrier attack that works like the Stun Power with a Power rank equal to your attack rank (your Trait plus the item’s Weapon Bonus). Stun: The weapon does not inflict damage, but it delivers an attack that works like the Stun Power with a Power rank equal to your attack rank (your Trait plus the item’s Weapon Bonus).Thrown: The weapon can be thrown at targets within Close Range (or farther, depending on how strong you are, as discussed in Chapter 4). When dealing with small ranged weapons like grenades or throwing stars, you carry enough to avoid worrying about running out in the middle of a scene.Two-Handed: This feature works like the Con of the same name.Versatile: The weapon can be used in one or two hands. Increase the item’s Weapon Bonus by 1d when wielding the weapon in two hands, as this affords you more power and better control.ACCURATE/VERY ACCURATE1 to 2 Hero PointsA personal weapon with this feature is more accurate than usual. This grants you a +1d bonus on your attack rolls when targeting an enemy using an active defense against your attack. If you spend 2 Hero Points on this feature, the weapon is Very Accurate, granting you a +2d bonus instead.BONDED1 Hero PointAs a result of something like genetic coding or a mystical evaluation of destiny, lineage, or worthiness, the item will only work for you (or perhaps for you and a select few).COLLAPSIBLE1 Hero PointThe item can be collapsed into a small and easily portable form.CONCEALED1 Hero PointThe item is concealed in another item or disguised to look like something else.
>>97785748FITTED2 Hero PointsThis feature is added to Bulky or Rigid armor to eliminate the penalty to challenge rolls involving acrobatics, stealth, and speed. The penalty still applies when swimming in the armor.HARDENED2 Hero PointsThis feature is applied to armor to make it especially resilient. It counteracts the effects of the Armor Piercing Pro. The Penetrating Pro, however, works normally against this item.MASTERPIECE2 Hero PointsAn item with this feature is exceptionally well-crafted and constructed of high quality or materials or parts. This lets you reroll one challenge roll per scene when using the item.POWERFUL/VERY POWERFUL1 to 2 Hero PointsA personal weapon with this feature is more powerful than usual. This grants you a +1d bonus on your attack rolls when targeting an enemy using a passive defense against your attack. If you spend 2 Hero Points on this feature, the weapon is Very Powerful, granting you a +2d bonus instead.REINFORCED2 Hero PointsThis feature usually indicates that the armor is constructed of especially damage-resistant materials. It increases the Armor Bonus provided by the item by 1d.SILENCED1 Hero PointThis feature is a version of the Subtle Pro that applies only to ranged weapons. It means the weapon makes much less noise and lacks the usual visual signature like muzzle flare. This feature is more effective than ordinary silencers you can obtain as gear (assuming you can find one for sale).UPGRADED2 Hero PointsThis feature increases the Armor Bonus provided by armor, the Shield Bonus provided by a shield, the Weapon Bonus provided by a weapon, or the core bonus provided by any other item by 1d. This bonus stacks with that provided by other features.
>>97785753PROS AND CONSAs physical objects, every piece of gear has the Item Con. Apart from that, many other Pros and Cons can be applied to a piece of gear to make it unique. Pros and Cons cost the same when applied to gear as when applied to Powers. Regardless of Cons, no piece of gear can cost less than 0 Hero Points (in other words, no piece of gear will end up granting you extra Hero Points). Pros and Cons commonly applied to gear include Area of Effect, Armor Piercing, Build-Up, Burnout, Carrier Attack, Charges, Delay, Fuse, Independent, Line of Sight, Ongoing, Overkill, Overload, Penetrating, Phase Shift, Readied, Recharge, Selective, Subtle, Toxin, Trap, Two-Handed, Unreliable, and Weak.
>>97785339>>977853417.62×39mm is an intermediate cartridge, retard.
>>97785727>thinking the government wouldn't enforce dogshit onto the populace even to the detriment of the people having to deal with it
>>97781611I get it, it was a bad joke, I'll take the L.
>>97785339>>97786461Well, there technically is an AK variant chambered in 7.62x54R, it's called PKM
>>97786852PKM has nothing to do with the AK other than Kalashnikov designed them both. That's like saying M63 is an AR-15 variant because Stoner designed them both. You're probably thinking of RPK, but that's chambered in 7.62x39 like the AK-47.
Dagger is more a parrying weapon when dual wielding according to most classical swordsmanship texts
>>97786879Would you consider Saiga an AK variant?That's 12 gauge.
>>97765995Amusingly this is a thing in 3e D&D rules-as-written, a one-handed weapon one size category larger than you is wielded with two hands and has a -2 penalty to hit due to the size. A bastard sword can be wielded two-handed, or one-handed if you have exotic weapon proficiency in it, as such someone with exotic proficiency in a bastard sword can wield a large bastard sword with two hands.So technically, the fullblade is a three-handed greatsword.
>>97786499Retard.
>>97781995No, it isn't better.
