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>printing

>>97766613
>what's your least favorite disadvantage for a player to take?
Weirdness Magnet. I think it's only appropriate for a handful of game types, but there are some playoids who just take it every single time no matter what because they just see it as free points.

>>97766613
Pacifism(Cannot Kill)
just turns into a depression spiral when its a campaign with any sort of weapons

>>97766613
>what's your least favorite disadvantage for a player to take?
Secret (Child molester; possible death)

Is there an argument to be made for why skill rolls shouldn't be random? If traits don't require rolling, why not skills?

>>97766613
>TQ: what's your least favorite disadvantage for a player to take?
I dislike the whole disadvantage system

>>97766613
TQ: Trickster.
A lot of campaigns just don't really have an opportunity for it to trigger, and it requires creativity to work and make sense, much more than other mental disadvantages.

>>97767117
I like pacifism (no innocents)

>>97769946
Your opinion is wrong. Disadvantages are not only needed to represent reality, they actively help role-playing.

>>97769946
Why the fuck are you playing GURPS then? Your games must be boring as fuck.

>>97769932
Because that is retarded, anon. If you do that, you might as well go write a book with your friends, as nothing interesting will ever happen.

>>97770001
I get that. I only had one player take it, and the trick was just tying another character's shoes together for him to fall down.

>>97767117
Pacifism (Cannot Kill) really does blow. Cannot Harm Innocents is a better one, or Self-Defense Only. Cannot Kill works great for Cleric characters if you rewrite it, though.

>>97770095
This implies skill failure is interesting.

>>97771513
If there's no risk of failure, you're just telling a story, you don't need a system for that. Just tell what happens.
Go to literally any other rpg general and ask why the system has dice rolls. The answer is going to be the same for all of them.

>>97769932
Traits often do require rolling, but yes, in many cases skills are a matter of 'you are at this level or you aren't' in real life. You either know a fact or you don't. A task is either within your capabilities, or it isn't. I don't have a 2% chance of being able to repair a broken internal combustion engine or something else I don't know anything about, I have basically a 0% chance of doing that. Likewise, I don't have a 98% chance of being able to routine tasks at my job, I have a nearly 100% chance of being able to do them unless there is something causing me serious issues like a major distraction, sleep deprivation, etc.
This can be represented by the 'this one goes to eleven' optional rule if you like, where there's basically a skill level which makes a task guaranteed to succeed but anything under that is guaranteed to fail. This is especially true of knowledge, where most people either know a fact or don't.
There are several problems with that approach:
It makes things too predictable. Both in real life and fiction, a lot of tasks aren't actually certain. There is a possibility of both failure and success. This is especially the case for unusual tasks being done in difficult circumstances. Even simply remembering a fact can sometimes fail, or be achievable through some weird 'stroke of luck' where someone who doesn't know much about a subject just happens to recall the specific detail from some book or something.
GURPS skills are really too broad for it to be a simple binary whether someone with a given skill level can just do a task or not. In reality, such a skill indicates competency at numerous related tasks, and two people with the same skill level might be good at completely different things. Rolling gives you a sense of variable competence between supposedly similar characters without having to get into the ridiculous detail of listing every single thing the character knows.

>>97771513
Failure is inherently interesting. If you don't find it interesting, don't play a game where there is any probability. Go try playing Texas Hold'em, but all the money that gets put in the pot goes to whoever the "storyteller" chooses after dictating what happens.

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Best place to start for 4th edition mecha or like, tank combat in general?

>>97771702
Py. #3/120, Describing Vehicles and GURPS Spaceships 4 (or whichever the mecha one is)

>>97771576
You clearly have not read the manual. GURPS explicitly says you can skip rolls if you stat is high enougha fter applying modifyers and there is no tension involved. You don't need to roll for driving to the supermarket if you are average at it, only if you are winging it or you "know" how to drive yet you just are incredibly inept at driving (student that didnt get his license yet, for example).
Please hang yourself nogames.

>>97771702
Use Spaceships series, with rules from Alternate Spaceships (Pyramid 3/34), especially the Armor and Volume rule, to design them.
Alternatively, use Modular Mecha (Pyramid 3/51) for the mecha. I think the result ends up being a bit stronger than Spaceships builds, but can't remember for sure.
Combat rules don't really need any change, except tactical combat hexes should be scaled to typical vehicle size and weapon ranges (ten yards per hex seems reasonable for a typical mecha game and is easy to translate from normal weapon stats, etc.).

>>97770033
Disadvantages in a point buy system suck ass unless you're using templates
Otherwise players will just game them for points unless you hold their hand through character creation

>>97772320
First of all, get better players.
Second of all, this is how gurps works, you have to curate every single aspect of character creation, otherwise you get players with 20 DX, trained by a master and psionic powers in a realistic medieval game. If you believe a disadvantage won't get any play in a specific campaign, you shouldn't let the players grab them.

I want to make a game in the vibe and tone (and era) of the The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen (the cheesy movie, not the serious comic book version with the rape and stuff); what books would I need?

>>97772675
Basic Set and High-Tech (plus non-GURPS research materiel) covers pretty much everything you need. Steampunk series (including the 3rd edition Steampunk and Screampunk books) will be helpful but not essential. Powers and Supers might have a bit of stuff you can use, but aren't really needed for LXG. Hot Spots: Victorian London could be helpful but isn't out yet.

>>97772675
GURPS Steampunk
GURPS Cliffhangers
GURPS Monster Hunters

>>97772612
My players are very good about not taking outlandish shit but they will have every -5 point disadvantage
I think that trait should be a named disadvantage too

>>97772320
Yup. The first instinct of all players is to game the disadvantage system. Experienced players will learn to hide their munchkin nature through "appropriate roleplay" and "justification through backstory". Then at the highest levels of skill you learn that having a good time with others is what the game is about, not bean counting itself.

>>97772320
>Otherwise players will just game them for points unless you hold their hand through character creation

Cool, how about playing the game before complaining about it, retard. You have never built a character in GURPS (or even read Basic) if you think taking disadvantages is "gaming it for points".

>>97773054
Lowering your Per and Will to discount IQ is gaming the system.

>>97772320
Disadvantage limits are RAW recommended and solve this, btw. The RAW recommendation of 50% point total is ass though. Just tell your players
>No more than 30-50 points in disadvantages
>No more than 2 disadvantages that involve Self-Control Rolls.
Etc. etc. simple as.

>>97773114
>lowering will
Uhm, what? Do you not use disadvantage limits or fright checks?

>lowering per
Do you not use surprise encounters or make players check for traps?

Just say that you've never actually played the game, anon.

>>97773215
NTA, but I've never seen a reason to use Fright Checks, or rather they've always seemed excessive in their consequences.
Will rolls have seen use for physical effort and to avoid flinching after getting injured.

>>97773215
I'm not a GM. I only ever play GURPS.

>>97772790
>>97772798
Thanks
>victorian london
any idea when that's gonna be out? that's very ideal for my game

>>97772900
That's why there are disadvantage limits bro. Evert single "worked example" of gurps (dungeon fantasy, discworld, action, monster hunters...) has a disadvantage limit. Players going overboard is both a player problem and a GM problem, not a system problem.

>>97773266
>>97773281
>>97773114
Will rolls should be constant in realistic campaigns with combat, and in non-realistic campaigns a lot of magic shit is will-based so will (alongside HT) is a very important stat for anyone that wants to survive.
Per is fucking vital lmao what kind of GM lets players get away with low perception, this isn't even a gurps thing, even D&D will punish low perception characters (enjoy stepping on every trap and falling for every ambush)

Also lowering will and per is not gaming the system, it makes LESS sense to have every single scientist, wizard and sage be great at spotting ambushes, but that's a different argument.

>>97773266
Fright Checks RAW (in Basic) kind of blow, but they have some good use. I think Horror is pretty good for them.

>>97773281
You're still a retard. Find a better GM if you are allowed to buy IQ at 10/pt due to buying down Will and Per. Genuinely, your problems are because either you or your GM do not know how the rules work.

>>97773502
Personally, I decouple Per & Will from IQ for that reason. And make Charisma & Magic their own thing.
t. smart guy that cannot talk to women or cast spells

>>97773438
Sadly, not until 2027.
Honestly, Victorian London is well documented enough that you can just use pop-history books for the background.

>>97773502
>Will rolls should be constant in realistic campaigns with combat
I've been thinking about running a campaign that's as 'hard realism' as I can make it. That being said half the PC's having a panic attack and gaining a phobia from seeing a dead body after combat sounds less than great.

https://baseds-cosmos.blogspot.com/2026/03/a-new-take-on-magic.html
Posted some ideas on how to change up Magic.

>>97774829
My suggestion would be to replace The Rule of 14 with something like:
>If the final, modified Will exceeds 16, don't roll and instead consider the Fright Check to have been passed.
and also give generous bonuses for low-stress situations, warnings, etc.

>>97775633
Pretty cool, anon.

>>97775674
Thanks, anon. I have been working pretty furiously on my house rules and stuff comes up that I enjoy throwing into the void.

>>97775640
I do this with my "Morale" system. Party gets bonuses over time for doing actions (e.g. fucking women at brothels, bathing, eating fine meals, getting drunk) as well as penalties (e.g. death in the company, no pay, only one type of food). If there is enough good stuff happening, the group has less chances to retreat in combat, unless there is truly bad shit going on. This is probably already somewhere in some book and I just didn't read it because I don't have time for that shit.

>>97773576
Oh you homebrew. Why should I give a fuck about your opinion, you don't play real GURPS.

>>97776843
>he thinks homebrewing isn't 'real gurps'
retard alert
the entire system is designed to enable and allow for easy homebrew
if you want an anti-homebrew system, play dnd

How do you guys handle important 3rd party organizations that aren't specifically enemies or patrons/contacts/allies?

Just treat them as background color? No interaction or monitoring unless players directly interact with them?

>>97777210
They don't need to be purchased as a relationship to interact with the PCs. Enemies, allies, contacts, etc. are specifically relationships which that character has in addition to any stuff which the GM throws at them. Just like you don't need a player to take Enemy (Wandering Monsters) or (Bandits) before springing an encounter on them, you can simply have NPC organisations which can be helpful, hostile, or whatever.
The rules for organizations doing organization stuff and in Boardroom and Curia.

>>97777210
What >>97777226 said
You're really overthinking it, if an organization is neither supporting nor opposing a PC there's no good reason to have mechanics for it.

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>>97777226
Yeah, I've had it cracked open for a couple of days.
>>97777246
>You're really overthinking it
Probably. I get that PCs don't need to take Enemy for every zombie that shambles across their path but I still feel like quantifying the capabilities of the local orgs could be useful.

>>97777175
I understand you want to customize GURPS. You need to purchase "GURPS Power-Ups 9: Alternate Attributes" if you're going to mess with that shit. I don't trust you to know better than the actual game designers.

>>97773449
It's less about the points limit and more about the number of disads becoming absolutely unmanageable
That said I will do the opposite of the TQ and nominate a favourite disad: Phobia. Clear-cut, no bullshit, adjustable and it still affects you if you make the roll. I like all the BS -5pt disads the least like Minor Addiction and trash like that

>>97777311
>purchase
I don't think so

>>97777338
My favorite disadvantage is Bloodlust. I already want to kill everyone who stands in my way so it's free points for being myself.

>>97777342
Go seed your torrents.

>>97777377
Are there even any GURPS torrents up

>>97777175
Come on Anon, that was really lame bait to fall for.

>>97777338
>the number of disads becoming absolutely unmanageable
So just set a low point limit
If your max disadvantage is -25, they will get at most 5 [-5] disadvantages, which is perfectly manageable.
My current campaign everyone has lenses that give them -15 points worth of disadvantages (usually one -10 and one -5), and they can pick -15 extra.

>>97777511
If you need to ask you don't need to know.

>>97775633
>spell damage based on an attribute
check out the Changes to Missile, Melee, and Other Damaging Spells section of college ritual book magic, it might fit what you are trying to do.

>https://noschoolgrognard.blogspot.com/p/blog-page.html

I just realized. Almost all punches IRL are aimed at the face.
In fact, it is more natural to punch at the face when you're both standing in front of each other, and body blows usually come once the fight gets in real close like a grapple.

How should this be represented in GURPS? No one wants to go for the -5 when doing melee attacks, unarmed or not, unless they're really confident on their skills.

>>97775640
>>If the final, modified Will exceeds 16, don't roll and instead consider the Fright Check to have been passed.
Do things normally modify will that high though?

>RAW: If you take a template labeled "62 points", you MUST spend 92 points, and you MUST get −30 points from disadvantages to compensate.
>House rule: If you take a template labeled "62 points", you MUST spend 32 points, and you MAY spend an additional 30 points and get −30 points from disadvantages to compensate.
Yea or nay?

>>97778988
if you don't want disadvantages on the templates to be mandatory just modify the templates to not include them. The point of templates is to make it easier to create a character, and that includes picking appropriate disadvantages.

>>97778988
I think that makes sense. That’s what I do already in my games if I force a template (I explicitly state all disadvantages are optional). The only game I don’t do this in is a Dungeon Crawling game I run.

>>97778717
Will check it out, thanks anon.

>>97778374
Well I don't really, I got mine and fuck everyone else

>>97778360
>they will get at most 5 [-5] disadvantages, which is perfectly manageable
You can make gameplay perfectly tedious with everyone having 5 disadvantages

>>97779327
I disagree, since I regularly run games with [-50] worth of disadvantages and it all works fine. A disadvantage doesn't have to come up every single session you know? It's only "free points" if it's never going to come up, like ones that gives penalty to reaction rolls when you never use reaction rolls.

>>97776843
>>97777311
Tell me you've never interacted with GURPS designers without telling me you've never interacted with GURPS designers.

>>97778831
GURPS assumes that you are aiming for center mass. If you want to assume that blows are to the face, make your fighter use telegraphic attacks to the face, for a -1 penalty.

>>97779363
>ones that gives penalty to reaction rolls when you never use reaction rolls.
Don't those typically affect all social skills? They don't need to never come up to be tedious, with a character who has Disciplines of Faith (Ritualism) and is a chain smoker you're essentially playing a minigame around that one guy to see if you should penalize him or not

>>97780314
>minigame
just a couple of rolls per session at most

>>97778831
>How should this be represented in GURPS?
Preferred hit location. Also keep in mind most untrained fighters, which means most people who have ever thrown a punch, are pulling all-out-attacks and defensive maneuvers, without much in between.

>>97780351
>>97779931
The average boxer's jab is a defensive punch to the face. And I don't think they're telegraphing a jab.
At -5 this means that they're going to be missing 50% of the time or so.
Are most boxers are spending points in technique: targeted attack (box punch to face)?

>>97780446
>The average boxer
The average person throwing a punch irl is not the average boxer, anon.

>>97780476
Yes but I want to talk about what the average boxer is doing. Like unironically, every single martial art, combat sport, and so on trains to punch people in the face, so it feels weird that skill 14 pros are trying to punch at skill 9 and this is the optimal thing.

>>97780521
There may be some modified charts somewhere in the rat's nest of rules and supplements called GURPS to reflect that. If I am throwing punches at you, then most of my blows should land on your upper arms, upper chest and head and the to hit modifiers should reflect that. A similar thing should happen with kicking. Kicking someone in the thighs and legs should be the default and kicking someone in the chest should be more difficult. Don't ask why it is harder to hit someone in the skull with a sword than their foot. GURPS like every other RPG has its own silly rules.

>>97780780
>kicks
I do have a house-rule that removes the penalty to hit legs when you do a kick. Maybe I should have it so punches have a reduced penalty to hit the face compared to other forms of attacks.

>>97780446
>Are most boxers are spending points in technique: targeted attack (box punch to face)?
Probably yeah. Though they're probably also evaluating and doing Committed Attacks for to-hit bonuses.

speaking of boxing, is there any perk or technique to remove the "-3 parry vs weapon swings" from brawling, wrestling or boxing?

>>97781275
Knowing GURPS I imagine there's something to represent training in parrying that you could buy off the -3 with, but parrying weapons with boxing and those other mentioned styles is just naturally difficult.

>>97779931
Which GURPS devs are bad at their job?

>>97781578
All of them

>>97781275
Pretty sure it's somewhere in LT or MA that if you fail your parry by 3 or less you can choose to either let it hit your parrying arm or the intended hit location.

Makes it a bit more interesting.

>>97780780
>harder to hit someone in the skull
Honestly, I think it's just game balance. You could say that it's easier to duck, flinch and jerk your head (thus making it harder to hit) than with a leg or foot, I guess

>>97781578
You're an actual retard, anon.

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>>97781578

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>>97782894
kek

How much would a Code of Honor: Boxer disadvantage give?
>Only use your hands in combat
>never strike someone below the belt or on the ground

I didn't find any way to remove the -3 to parry swing weapons from boxing :(
I want to parry melee weapons unarmed but also be able to fight in heavy encumbrance
Would a "fantasy boxing" that is hard but doesn't have penalties to parry weapons be unbalanced?
Essentially it's karate but trading kicks for no encumbrance penalty to skill.

Compare:
>karate
>+one-handed parries
>+parry and retreat
>+arms and legs
>+big damage bonus
>+no penalty to parrying weapons
>-encumbrance penalty to base skill
>-hard skill

>boxing
>+one-handed parries
>+parry and retreat
>+big damage bonus
>-arms only
>-penalty to parry low line attacks
>+-average skill

>>97783456
>Informal and applies only among your peers: −5
>Formal and applies only among your peers, or informal and applies all the time: −10
>Formal and applies all the time, or requires suicide if broken: −15
This sounds like −10 to me.

>>97781275
>>97783690
You can make a custom defensive technique with the rules on Martial Arts p. 91. Difficulty should be Hard.

>>97783703
makes sense, thanks!

>>97783728
Time to read on how custom techniques are made, I skipped that part when reading martial arts before.

What books do I find the gun-fu rules in and do they work with single action revolvers so that I can make a character like revolver ocelot?

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>>97783861
>What books do I find the gun-fu rules in
GURPS Gun Fu

>>97783861
>What books do I find the gun-fu rules in
GURPS Gun Fu, duh
Tactcal Shooting also helps, and high tech for the stats of the Colt Single Action Army ocelots carries around.
Also yes, they do work.

>>97783927
thanks

>>97783916
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y897tozJeg8

>>97782130
I do HEMA and most hits, regardless of weaon, go for arms, shoulders, neck, and head. The chart makes sense when it comes to shooting, not realistic hand to hand combat.

>>97784375
Correction: this applies to cuts. When thrusting, the chest, belly and shoulders are mre likely targets. A solution could be having the chart change depending on the attack (swing vs thrust) and weapon. The type of alternate rule you would see in some Pyramid magazine.

Ahem.

Kill Realm Management. Behead Realm Management. Roundhouse kick Realm Management into the concrete. Slam dunk Realm Management into the trashcan. Crucify filthy Realm Management. Defecate in Realm Management's food. Launch Realm Management into the sun. Stir fry Realm Management in a wok. Toss Realm Management into active volcanoes. Urinate into Realm Management's gas tank. Judo throw Realm Management into a wood chipper. Twist Realm Management's head off. Report Realm Management to the IRS. Karate chop Realm Management in half. Curb stomp pregnant Realm Management. Trap Realm Management in quicksand. Crush Realm Management in the trash compactor. Liquefy Realm Management in a vat of acid. Eat Realm Management. Dissect Realm Management. Exterminate Realm Management in the gas chamber. Stomp Realm Management's skull with steel toed boots. Cremate Realm Management in the oven. Lobotomize Realm Management. Mandatory abortions for Realm Management. Grind Realm Management fetuses in the garbage disposal. Drown Realm Management in fried chicken grease. Vaporize Realm Management with a ray gun. Kick Realm Management down the stairs. Feed Realm Management to alligators. Slice Realm Management with a katana.

>>97778831
It doesn't help that the GURPS wants to separate head into face/eyes/skull hit locations. An average human head is like 18" in its longest dimension for -4 to hit, or -3 if you give it the +1 for being an elongated sphere. But instead of just letting you go for the general noggin, the game forces you to take additional penalties for aiming for specific parts of the head for some reason. If you wanted to make the head more practical, you could roll at -4 or -3 instead of -5 to hit a general 'head' location and from there roll a sub location randomly.

>>97778831
Also, use Conditional Injury. With it you can't reliably tickle people to knockout with general torso shots anymore, you have to target the face or vitals to fish for Knockdown & Stunning if you want get knockouts with jabs.

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>>97783861
>>97783916 is basically the secret to everything MGS. They talk like they're playing Tactical Shooting, but it's really just Gun-Fu all the way down, with the occasional TS rule when it looks cool.

>>97787571
>>97778831
I'm a retard and should have spotted this right away but the figure I found 8cm, not 18in, and that's width. Actual greatest dimension is typically height for 9" or so, give it +2 for being roughly spherical and that gives you to -4 for a general 'head' hit location.

>>97787599
how much DR is that armor

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>>97788056
Depends on how deep into the weeds of the tech tree you want to get, with all the upgrade levels of both weapons and armor, and how they interact with the aggressive scaling of infantry health between different skill tiers. They're applique plates on top of the basic sneaking suit, which already provides damage reduction over basic fatigues. Assuming equivalent gear levels, the typical post-game supersoldier you find guarding FOBs is 1 or 2 shots with a full-caliber* sniper to neutralize in a sneaking suit, plus 1 more for the up-armor. They do the vidya thing where snipers do more damage than MGs in the same caliber, so we'll chalk that up to ammo. Cutting a lot of fast and loose number crunching, I roughly figure that the sneaking suit amounts to an Assault Vest but full-body with a bunch of Covert Ops or Ultra-Tech add-ons to make it thermal-regulated and less noisy, and the plates count as Trauma Plates, but again full-body. If we assume our rifle is running SLAP+P rounds over a base 7d damage, that gives us an average of about 10 damage per torso shot in the full armor, or 16 in the sneaking suit. Those roughly fit with the target number of shots for an all 10s baseline human, though ST, HP or Hard to Subdue purchases that throw that off fast.

*For some reason known only to Kojima, 7.62x51, x54 AND x39 are all interchangeable in the weapon customizer with no modifications to damage. That's not a noguns thing, 4 and Peace Walker got it right before. Doing it is basically required for FOBs, because shoving an AK mag into your custom Dragunov abomination also gives you 6 spares instead of 4 8-round mags.

>>97788421
Make gun abominations was the most fun part of the game
>running around with a silenced automatic shotgun with a drum mag and underbarrel grenade launcher

>>97788497
I mean, it's alright, but there's absolutely no match for the adrenaline rush jankfest that is FOB PVP.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UAycvPd8omQ

How could you give the humans a fighting chance in a Cowboys vs. Aliens scenario?

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>>97788833
make the aliens gay and retarded

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>>97788833
Like the other anon said, gay and retarded

>>97788845
Did not expect UFOPORNOOO in my GURPS thread

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>back to bumping the thread from page 10
grim

>>97793475
where is this from?

>>97793475
Well, this thread got made pretty quick after the last one died. It didn't have much time to ferment.

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>>97793605
The Football (Pyramid vol. 3 iss. 112)

Is there a good table or chart of ammunition in any of these books?
Its mainly acc, holdout, weight and such that comes from the firearm itself
and then the damage and range from the ammo type right?

>>97794282
Technically in GURPS all of it comes from the weapon
The ammo tables only have cost and weight per shot

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>>97794282
GURPS Vehicles (for Third Edition) has pic related.
>Base damage = bore size * modifier for barrel length * modifier for propulsion (gunpowder, electromagnetic, or gravitic) * modifier for TL * modifier for gun power level
>Different ammo types can modify the base damage
But I don't know how applicable this is to Fourth Edition.

>>97794509
So, for example, a gun with 9-millimeter bore can do anything from 2.7d (3d − 1) to 10.8d (10d − 1) depending on how long its barrel is. And then you can go all the way down to 0.675d (1d − 1) for a 9-mm gun with an extremely short barrel AND an extra-low-powered cartridge.

>>97794509
>>97794545
>>97794461
Intredasting

>>97794282
There isn't a table like that in the books, due to barrel length affecting both damage and range. You can make your own using Gun Stats though. It's pretty clear if you use that book that those two stats are ammo-specific.
3rd edition stats really don't line up with 4th edition ones, and the barrel length modifier in Vehicles is particularly bad at its job. Cartridges have limits to how much more velocity they can develop out of a barrel.

>>97794602
The setting that I want to use the rules in, Deadlands, has a lot of different ammo types, every other firearm has proprietary ammunition. Then there's the different types of propellants, black powder, smokeless, Ghost Rock blended ammunition.
The general rule for Ghost Rock blended propellant seems to be +20% range +2 damage, the ghost steel for weapons and armor and such seems to be 20% lighter and 20% harder too.

>>97795188
High Tech should provide most of that stuff

>>97795297
Yeah, I've been relying on High Tech regularly.
That 3rd edition formula seems like it might be helpful though

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Got a friend who wants to use a flamethrower in a TL6-7 World war-esq game.
However, flamethrowers (and any sort of white-phosphorus) kinda sucks.
>WP/fragmentation damage barely penetrates armor
>being on fire is -2 and fright checks are nice, but it doesn't really kill.
>Flamethrowers themselves are heavy
>Can't reload
>easy to take cover from
>etc etc
Am I missing something or do we need to futz with things for this firebug? Tried looking into dragonbreath rounds too and that didn't seem useful either.

>>97796166
Realistically they deal large-area injury and should deal that damage unless the target is completely sealed

>>97796188
Like 2 burning damage across multiple body parts per second?
That'd be like 2 or 3 seconds until incapacitation or death for most human targets wouldn't it?

>>97796196
Refer to High-Tech pg 178

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>>97796203
Large area attack (Averages DR of highest+lowest)
+
Unsealed armor only being 1/5 useful

basically means flamethrowers are basically bypassing most DR that you find on an average soldier. Pretty good

But why is WP so dogshit? Feels like with any decent armor you'll just be on fire forever with no penalty besides 'distracting'

>>97796236
Generally speaking in modern times you won't have enough armor not to be hit by WP somewhere unarmored

Do you just rule it hitting unarmored? I'm using the Large Area Attack rules (b400)

>>97796236
there was a blog that detailed the rule about being set on fire to account for the fact that you'd be breathing air so hot your lungs would melt.
Something about how fire should also be a respiratory agent or something.
I can't find it though. It had an example of how long someone in cloth, light and heavy armor would survive when stuck in a firepit.

>>97796236
https://x.com/afvrec_/status/2037590538908549459?s=46

>>97796245
The hot frags hit locations instead of large area so you might get a frag somewhere that's not armored

>>97796236
>>97796739
Basically, despite the memes, WP isn't really all that great at killing infantry. It is phenomenally good at dislodging them by making the area very unpleasant to be in. Part of the reason why using it that way starts getting into warcrime territory is because there's not really much of a reason to huck WP at them when you've probably got HE rounds for the same gun sitting right there next to your smoke rounds.

>>97797410
Well the explosion should probably also follow the unsealed DR rules that flamethrowers do

>>97796166
Well flame throwers are also absolutely terrifying and can cause routs.

>>97797410
Isn't it however very effective at incapacitating? The fragments can't be put out so if they embed in your skin or clothes, the latter will catch fire and the former is excruciatingly painful as your flesh chars

I had written down that one of the benefits of gunslinger was
>Fast-Firing: semiautomatic weapons can triple RoF! Choose your desired RoF and attack at a penalty equal to the RoF used.
But I have no idea where I got this from, it's not from gun fu and not from tactical shooting.
You'd think I made it up but I wouldn't write that "!" when describing anything so I'm pretty sure I copypasted this from somewhere.

>>97799104
It seems unlikely that SJG would publish a different version of a well-established rule under the same name. Could you have copied someone else's house-rule?

>>97798995
Part of it is time scale. It's easy to lose track of how fast GURPS runs because there's no processing lag outside of a very dedicated GM controlling how much information the players have. That clip is 18 rounds long from burst to when the camera breaks line of sight, so roughly 2 ticks of damage. At an average of 7, that's already on the borderline of Reeling, and another 40 seconds to go gets into death saves territory. The only thing I'd really add on is fright checks, which are rarely called for explicitly, in order to let the GM manage the tone, but I generally put the risk or reality of being set on fire in that category.

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>>97799104
High-Tech, page 84. The move from double to triple sounds like a house rule to change it from trigger spam to proper near-cyclic bump firing.

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>>97799274
>the one time I don't check the thumbnail to make sure that the image overwrote correctly

>>97799248
>>97799274
>>97799282
I must have copied this house-rule from someone and forgot I guess.

>>97799253
Honestly, major reason GURPS isn't my favorite system. 1 second turns is way too fast, especially in gun fights, but then again the most cumbersome of melee weapons attack every other turn so not even that slow, and your 20 turn fight is a measly 20 seconds of narrative time.

You can't even have a minute-long holdout without it taking ages since it's a whopping 60 turns, nevermind anything longer than that.

>>97799584
Believe it or not, that's actually one of the points where Phoenix Command shines. Despite being able to granularize down to tenths of a second, it does have tools (hidden away in the vehicle combat system) to get all the way up to 8-second turns by coalescing things into squads. You have to swap back down the time scale for close assault, but you can actually run firefights outside of 100 yards range in a "reasonable" amount of time, especially when you also add on the rules for how long it takes to come up with and disseminate a plan, so you can move through a lot of time with just "check for who's winning the firefight, check for casualties, next turn".

>>97799649
>>97799584
Just adapt the rules from starships 1 (has rules from 10 seconds to 10 minute turns) for ground combat. Starships 3 has tactical combat with hexes of 10miles to 10k miles.
Would unironically be pretty easy to do.

>>97799700
This has already been done in Action 2's chase system.

>>97799649
>Phoeshit cummand
Absolute meme. Just use Aces & Eights if you want tens of seconds combat

>>97799700
The thing is, one second turns are good for everything else. Picking up items, rummaging in backpacks, using levels and shit. I just think that attacks should take up multiple seconds. Or attacks are still one second, which makes sense, but with a base penalty unless you evaluate, with evaluate not being a single second. Yes, one second is a long time in many ways, but I struggle to believe that in the middle of a brawl or a gunfight you can assess stuff in just one second, or whip up a feint.
That's probably why it feels, to me, awkward to have one second turns. Awareness is instant, finding weak spots is instant, feints and flourishes are instant, and tactical shooting perception rules are a bit cumbersome.

>>97799700
If the smaller 10 mile per 20 seconds scale isn't good enough (10 mile hex is a bit too large for walking characters); 1 mile hexes could work, according to the (probably wrong) napkin math I did, you more or less run 1 mile per 20 seconds per point of move.

>>97799782
Action chase uses abstract rounds which is "time enough for both sides to try something cool", I prefer to know exactly how long each round takes. Also it requires both sides to be in constant move, once someone stops you start the regular combat.

>>97798995
>excruciatingly painful
GURPS pain status effects are a bit poorly defined

>>97799801
>Absolute meme
A surprisingly playable meme once you've sat down and done it a couple times. The key is abstracting upwards as much as possible. You CAN work at 100ms increments, but the only time you NEED to go there is if two characters are shooting in a way that interacts within the same 500ms window, which only happens if they're doing it within the same 2-second window. It's much less rounds-based and more action-based, and then marking the timeline for when it resolves.

But, fair, it is still pretty intense. There's a reason why I'm in here talking about my group's lightweight alternative.

>>97800708
PC problems aren't initiative or actions, it's everything else. Bloated mess of rules and needlessly complicated charts for firearms and combat. At least rollmaster is fun, PC is just boring and mistakes mind numbing charts and numbers for "realism"

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>>97800747
>basic skill
>aim time
>range
>stance
>visibility
>target size
>target movement
>convert from sum of modifiers to % hit chance
It's really quite simple at its core. The weapon charts only look intimidating because they have several points of reference for damage instead of the 1/2 damage cutoff of GURPS.

>>97800863
Yes, needless granularity. I'm not trying to simulate a bullet in ten foot increments, nor elevation or width or whatever else. It's pointless bullshit. Gurps gun stats and its range/speed table are plenty enough.

>>97800876
>Gurps gun stats and its range/speed table are plenty enough
FOR YOU

Did yall see that in PU7 there is a little guidance about not allowing the same skill to be affected by both Talents and Wildcards? Did anyone here understand the logic? I read it and just felt like I was seeing a non-sequitur