>Hey guys check out my SORLOCKADIN!So how come DND during 2000s-2010s was all about roleplaying but now it's all SORLOCKADIN this and SORLOCKADIN that?
sorlockadin nutz
>how come DND during 2000s-2010s was all about roleplayingIt wasn't, theatre kids doing voices were always vocal minority that seemed bigger than it really is by the virtue of being vocal.
Multiclassing should be removed from DnD. It serves no purpose. All it does is allow for stupid broken rules glitches and builds that have no in-lore explanation. No, your fighter cannot suddenly learn wizard magic, and we all just agree retroactively that you were studying it the whole time. You weren't, your character had no interest in wizard magic, at least not until you saw some YouTube videos about some combo that now you want to try it. Wow such deep roleplaying! Actually fuck you. You and everyone who hides behind "muh Stormwind Fallacy" except it's not a fallacy, kind of slippery slope isn't a fallacy, it's not conclusive in itself but there is a pretty strong indication there that there is a tradeoff between the roleplay and the optimization, and multiclassing is a PRIME example of that. It is done, 90 percent of the time for powergaming (inb4 some ">citation needed" cockscker chimes in, I'll kick your fucking ass, your website is a woke SJW circle jerk anyway, hiding by a veneer of academic rigor that is entirely a charade). So because of that, we can justify getting rid of multiclassing entirely. Except maybe something like fighter rogue multiclass but that might as well be made into its own class. And that's another thing, anyone who talks about "taking a dip" into another class, should be forced to "take a dip" into molten fucking iron irl, it's gay as fuck, retarded stupid shit that doesn't exist in any fantasy story out there. Maybe Lord of the Rings has Merry and Pippin start taking fighter levels after a point? Yeah that's about it. No one builds their character around the story though, except maybe to more easily BTFO the DMs monsters with constant metagaming. What other function does multiclassing have? It doesn't, and it should be removed entirely. Maybe add back dual classing, if you really want those archetypes, and don't let these little autistic faggots microfuckingmanage every level they take in 3 different classes with tweezers.
>>97792049
>>97792161Nah bro, you're wrong.
>>97792161Virt please get a grip, these are elfgames and the point is to have fun
>>97792049Because in 5th Edition the Sorcerer, the Paladin, the Warlock (and the Bard but people sometimes forget him) have really good synergy if you multiclass, so you can mix and match any combination of them and make a strong character.
>>97792161>No, your fighter cannot suddenly learn wizard magicI hit level 3, It says right here in the fighter-features-by-level table i can. Maybe you should read the rules more, and fight culture wars on 4chan a bit less?
>>97792161I agree that dipping is cancermulticlassing should be at a cost, not something there for minmaxing fags
>>97792990Good then pick Eldritch knight, don't fucking take levels in wizard. Also you should have to decide on that shit from level 1.
>>97792049Back in mid-to-late 00s I used to play a lot of 3.5 with a guy who used to drive a lot of people in our group crazy with his minmaxed builds. He'd go through the sourcebooks and come up with all kinds of broken combinations, frequently ones based on multiclassing, often ones that didn't make all that much sense from a role-playing or in-setting perspective but were mechanically powerful. He was a great guy otherwise, a good friend, nice, thoughtful, always really into our games, but just that focus on builds and minmaxing was infuriating. Weirdly enough, he was fine playing mudcore rat-catchers in WHFRP 2E, he was fine with games where character creation was more about rolling than building, but when he had the opportunity to build he just went outright manic with it. The point of this blogpost obviously being that while specific builds have changed, people coming up with broken builds was a thing in the 2000s-2010s as well.
>>97792161All that text to tell everyone you far too retarded to play tabletop games or really do anything other than eat dicks all day.
>>97792161>anyone who talks about "taking a dip" into another class, should be forced to "take a dip" into molten fucking iron irlmegakek
>>97793582>you should have to decide on that shit from level 1.It's pretty normal for DnD players to have their entire build planned out from level 1, since you can't go back on your choices and you're usually fucked if you don't make synergistic choices that work.
the problem is printing a bunch of classes that hyper scale off of charisma when the comparably far less common int and wis classes barely scale off those stats at allthe stormwind fallacy only applies here beacuse the rules are trash
>>97792049I've been playing since the 90s and brought in many new folks over the years. Frankly, the idea that there's dramatic shifts is overstated. Games play out more or less the way they always have, in my experience.
>>97792049>>97792065>>97792161>>97793721>DNDYou're all retarded. Say it properly
>>97793613>you btfo my shitty RPG practices therefore you don't actually play Shut the fuck up bitch. I've run more sessions of RPGs than minutes you've spent playing. Typical bitch cucked virgin zoomer who has probably played like 2 sessions ever before the campaign was cancelled by (((social anxiety))) and then got posted on /rpghorrorstories/ board on reddit and then turned into a YouTube video. Shut up retard. You don't get to lecture me on shit.
>>97792049so are you going to use a system that doesn't have this problem?
>>97793582Try and stop me lardass
>>97794820DND
>>97793607why would you use a system that is known to have broken builds?
>>97795241Nice projection nogames tard.
>>97795369>>97795264You have no response except for copy pasted buzzword mockery. Your only involvement in this hobby is copying what D-list influencers tell you to. You're a spectator and a follower. You contribute nothing. You don't even contribute to your own enjoyment of what is ultimately a DIY hobby. So pathetic. The only response the redditors on this board have is "no games" when roll20 stats have proven the average "campaign" of theirs lasts 6 sessions cause that's the longest they can get a night off from watching their wife's son to actually play the first chapter of Curse of Strahd before "life happens" and their forced to work overtime to pay for her abortion from when she went clubbing with Jamal. Fuck off faggot. I've run campaigns that have lasted almost 200 sessions and played in ones that lasted almost 300. You think that's hyperbole or impossibility and that shows why you're a fucking poseur here. Fck off and go kill yourself.
>>97797060 mad and fat lol
>>97792161HE’S TOO BASED TO BE LEFT ALIVE!
lol replied to himself
>>97792049D&D 5e's character building is overall pretty shallow, but it's simultaneously hostile to improvised advancement at any level of system mastery above "kids table at the game store". You pretty much need to know your build from level 1 because there's no Retraining rules like in previous editions and multiclassing has very clear break points where doing the swap one level too early or too late cripples you for the rest of the campaign.Optimization autism is pretty much inevitable in a system that does not forgive chargen mistakes.
>>97792049>So how come DND during 2000s-2010s was all about roleplayingYou were not there. Neither was I, but I at least read some of the forums of the day. It is EXACTLY this period that was the PEAK of prominence for mechanics-oriented play.>>97792161>is unique on 4plebsOh boy, fresh meltie!>Multiclassing should be removed from DnD. It serves no purpose.Economy of design space.>No, your fighter cannot suddenly learn wizard magic, and we all just agree retroactively that you were studying it the whole time.And if like the Blackmoor Scholaress of old there's a very blatant diegetic reason for a change in career path, or the person did in fact take Magical Training first?>there is a pretty strong indication there that there is a tradeoff between the roleplay and the optimizationOnly when the rules of the world and of character building have large tensions making optimization diverge from any diegetic pursuit of power, like artificially chopping up still-compatible functions between thematically-incongruous sources so early that it's actively a good idea to take advantage of no requirements to reconcile them.>it's gay as fuck, retarded stupid shit that doesn't exist in any fantasy story out there.TTRPG campaigns have never tracked especially well with the narrative fiction, due to the constraints of resolution mechanics.>except maybe to more easily BTFO the DMs monsters with constant metagamingHave you never considered that the characters are allowed to identify trends in their threats and prepare accordingly?>>97793754>the stormwind fallacy only applies here beacuse the rules are trashCorrect! Personally a fan of having D&D-style "class" be a 1st level lock-in of a competency floor for otherwise very open character generation.>>97795276Chargen freedom of having builds at all, and popularity to actually get a playgroup together.
>>97792161>Multiclassing should be removed from DnDMulticlassing is fine in principle, it's just the way 5e does it is retarded. People love to bitch and moan at 4e, but it has like 3 different approaches to mutliclassing and each one makes more diegetic sense than 5e's level assembly line.
>>97797259class as a competency floor - you mean like elder scrolls or dark souls where its just a starting package? I hate this shit, gimme rigid class identity bottom to top ( and by rigid i mean 13th age is acceptable. Branching Classes ala Seiken Densetsu 3 or SotDL are fine too when well implimented) . Feels like the entire cross medium genre gave up on class identity after Worlo
>>97797285That's because "class identity" is fucking retarded
>>97797385Its not, it leads to depth of gameplay that you do not get without it. You see this even in odnd with race as class
>>97795276Because 3.5 was, for all its flaws, pretty fun, because while balance matters it's not all that matters, because broken builds were only a problem with that one guy who was otherwise a good guy and a good player, and also because 3.5 was what we knew the best back then.
>>97792161I had a DM require players find a mentor or relic in universe that would allow you to take levels in the class you wanted to multiclass. As a DM, you can make the rules.Although the irony is that the kind of people that would refrain from power gaming for narrative consistency would the be theatre kid "freakshit playing" types that /tg/ hates so much.
>>97797285>class as a competency floor - you mean like elder scrolls or dark souls where its just a starting package?More a "vertical slice" of a few clear things that keep pace with the level benchmarks, then non-class resources like skills and feats constitute the bulk of a character's options tangentially to the class so you don't NEED stuff like the dozens of permutations of "Guy Who Swings Sword And Does Magic" 3.X racked up.>I hate this shit, gimme rigid class identity bottom to topNo, that's a retarded straightjacket for actual role-playing.
>>97797060Why post all that when you could just go be retarded somewhere else?
>>97794820DNDFIGHTFIGHTDNDFIGHTFIGHT
>>97797273>>97797259>>97797259>Only when the rules of the world and of character building have large tensions making optimization diverge from any diegetic pursuit of power,You mean like in D&D 5e where this "sorcadin" and "sorlock" and other faggot portmanteau build names by tryhard queers who can't get sex with women so they troon out and tryhard at D&D instead of losing weight so a woman will actually want to fuck them? Because that's exactly the problem here. Diegesis and character build meta don't line up and the rules don't have any relation with that anyway. There's no in-game action required to take specific feats. Because powergamer snowflake freakshitters would cry about it, and lazy DMs would cry that they actually have to be involved with the characters builds. And it wouldn't sell as many books, which is the only thing that matters to (((Wizards of the Coast))).
>>97798858tl;dr look at me be a retarded nogames faggot.
>>97793006You mean like, if, for example, taking only one level of something when your main class is level 6 had a penalty, but if you actually had the classes at equal or within 1 level of each other like you're actually trying to be both you wouldn't have a penalty?
For me, it's Rogue/Warlock
>>97792049>So how come DND during 2000s-2010s was all about roleplayingFalse. That was the 3.X era, and 3.X was the edition that made "builds" and character optimization a permanent disease upon the hobby. It turns out Gygax & Pals were very intelligent by not giving the players many character options at all: when you do, designing your character becomes the whole game.
>>97798866Everything he said is correct though.There is absolutely no action required from the player to pick a feat, other than writing it down on your sheet.
>>97798858It sounds like you're just in a state of perpetual meltdown about Current Popular Thing, then, because this does not actually track with the previous arguments for illigitimacy of multiclassing in itself.How many of your complaints of character generation structure evaporate to the 3.5 UA "Test-Based Prerequisites" variant?>https://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/campaigns/testBasedPrerequisites.htm
>>97799962Said by someone wrong and stupid.
>>97793582So you support planning your character in advance? Seems a little close to build-fagging to me.
>>97792161Is this pasta? This is very good pasta.
>>97797285classes are shit, sorry.
>>97797385>>97800261Nogaems snowflake
>>97797549nope, more depth without it.
>>97797665no, bad rules are always a problem.
>>97798858mad and fat lol
>>97799947Optimizing is good and improves roleplaying.
>>97800076Obviously stupid on its face. The game rules literally physically exist in the fiction and anyone can tell what character options you have by looking at you, up to and including your exact experience point total.
>>97800268Reply to this post if you agree classes are bad.
>>97792049You were nogames during the 00s and 10s. People have ALWAYS minmaxed and found busted ass combos. Cleric+Fighter or Layering Prestige classes. 4th ed had Ranger+Rogue combos or STILL had a Paladin+Warlock which was still very similar in spirit to the modern Sorlockadin.
>>97792049Character building is roleplaying.
>>97792049Because your GM doesn't know how to build around and/or reject bullshit
>>97792049>>97792161The problem is you're looking at classes purely as identity. A character isn't a 'fighter' he's just a guy that's generally good with melee weapons and comfortable wearing heavier armor. A 'wizard' is just someone who uses studied magic and so on. When you're mixing classes together you're essentially creating someone who in universe spread out. Like what's stopping a Wizard from learning how to use a sword? If Farmer's son can become a Fighter with just a bit of practice a wizard could too.
>>97792054heheh
>>97794820DnD
>>97792049Coming from an ADnD player, Roleplaying in 1st ed was not as big as people think. The game was largely a dungeon crawler, and there were two different FORMS of multiclassing available.
>>97800274depth of choice is not the same thing as depth of gameplay
>>97800880Who said it is?
>>97793613Hi fishfag
>>97800372>Cleric+Fighter or Layering Prestige classes. 4th ed had Ranger+Rogue combos or STILL had a Paladin+Warlock which was still very similar in spirit to the modern Sorlockadin.All of these are shit in 3e and 4e.
>>97801563You've never played these games. Try again.
