I love the Death Korps of Krieg I love the Black TemplarsI’m tired of bad fanboys giving them a bad nameWHAT DO YOU LOVE? Do you hate annoying fans?
>>97794383No I love annoying fans, especially if they play my army. If someone playing against me has a grudge against my army because of something someone else did, it does not reduce my odds of crushing him at all. Better still, he will be upset far more at getting shitstomped by Guardsmen if, all the while, he imagines that I am some insufferable HFY poster on 4chan.He gets to be angry. I get to win easily, as he makes mistake after mistake, allowing his anger to lift his mind from his skull like a hot air balloon, struggling to retain hold of his rational faculties, while I, as cool as a cucumber, maneuver my vast legions to smash the shit-colored Tau teeth from his cuckold mouth. For years afterwords he will seethe and slam his fat faggot fingers against the keyboard, seeking revenge to which he is not entitled against people who have done him no harm--but never will he find me. Never will he lay his hand upon me. I am invisible, eternal, and invincible, the dread beam of vengeance shall never shine forth upon ME, because I am nowhere to be found save when there is victim-making to be done.Be MORE obnoxious my brothers, secure for me more and sweeter victories in the future!
>>97794383i hate black templars and love krieg so if the imperial guard could kill these rogue battle apes i'd greatly appreciate it
>>97794473Based as fuck
>>97794473This is how you truly gatekeep
>>97794473
>>97794383>bad fanboys giving them a bad nameIf you don't like people indulging in fascist iconography and behavior in a game about a hyper-authoritarian neofeudalist theocratic empire then maybe you should find a different setting.
>>97794473Why do you care if he's angry?
>>97794383The new Death Riders book was actually pretty great.
>>97794383Those factions are popular because they're cool.
>>97794383You could always paint a nazi flag and have a huge circle with a X crossing it out in a different color.That usually sets the statement.
>>97795218Except the setting is about how bad those things are
>>97795606>Except the setting is about how bad those things areNo, it's not. It's about how those things are necessary for survival in the face of existential supernatural and alien threats that prey on things like freedoms and sympathy.
>>97795633By the Emperor, read a book
>>97795846You're the type of mfer that plays Helldivers and thinks the mass murdering Automatons, whom turn entire cities into something straight of Terminator's Future War, are the good guys because Earth is authoritarian.
>>97795342This guy >>97795606 is why. You can see the setup. "I'm actually a better person than you because I cannot suspend my 21st century luxury beliefs for this game about catholic space fascists fighting posthumans who worship the god of rape,"And all you need to do to have a nice, easy game, is say "Nuh uh the Imperium is Baste" or some paraphrasing thereof, and you will see the rage quickly build at their constructed prestige morality being depreciated in status, even in play.And then you rape them! And for years afterwards they will appear unwanted in every thread they can to seethe impotently about "media literacy" or whatever, but this is someone else's problem.
>>97796054This is exactly what the enemies of the Imperium do to the very people that refuse to discard freedom or sympathy. Your privileged standards of right and wrong betray you as the enemy weaponizes them. As tools of the enemy, those standards can no longer be classified as an objective good. The customs that protect you from those enemies can no longer be bad. If you can not mentally adapt to this then you will perish.
>>97794383Idk ask /40kg/
>>97796409I hate you
>>97796054I don't know, it sounds like you're making up a guy to get smug about your own hatred of him.
>>97794383I hate larpers who dont even own a single model posting about a game they dont even play. Like you.
>>97796488Well, that and attention whoring.
>>97794383>I’m tired of bad fanboys giving them a bad nameSucks to suck then because BT players are the dumbest fucking retards engaging with only the most surface level shit in the gameAnd i don't even begrudge them for that, i begrudge them because those consoletard trash fall over dead to a single pair of warriors and boggart every fucking stim in the level while i have to carry the game on my back
>>97795633Where did this meme idea come from? Since rogue trader and every edition after it’s clearly established that the imperium of man is failing because of its most inefficient allocation of recourses and endless superstitions and extreme worship of the status quo. But the whole setting is dialled to 1000 so everything is way more ridiculous than possible and that’s the appeal. Same reason it’s called grimderp and now you have people trying to justify the most cruel regime to humanity possible??
>>97797070Fuck off Lorgar
>>97797070>the imperium of man is failing because of its most inefficient allocation of recourses and endless superstitions and extreme worship of the status quoYes Anon, failing. Failing as opposed to having been skullfucked into the dirt and then its corpse raped with a thousand burning needles, unable to die from its wounds because death will never free its soul from eternal torment. Think of the fate of the Eldar, a decaying culture that either degenerated into complete sadistic horror or an ultra-regimented and fanatically conservative species-supremacists that will sacrifice anything to avoid consumption by the Prince of Pain.Why do you fight so hard to pretend that concepts like tolerance and equality can't be weakness? Why is the idea that what you consider good and right could be turned against you so alien that you refuse to accept it when it's right in front of your face?
>>97797091Your argument hinges solely on the fact that the setting has not moved forward to the collapse and frankly it’s a childish argument that misses the point. GW is not going to end times their most profitable game because of financial reasons. It has nothing to do with their own made up lore. Everything in 40k is stretched to fantasy levels of ridiculousness even the fall of man as it has been going on for 10000 years which yeah is really fucking long but then again numbers don’t make sense in 40k be it fluff or rule wise..Your libtard tirade is a non sequitur but also unhinged lmao. GW is making 40k less oppressive with each iteration and that only feeds into retards thinking the iom is justified in its modus operandi. Sad!
>>97797184>Your argument hinges solely on the fact that the setting has not moved forward to the collapseThen you're not listening. Failing is a descent.>and frankly it’s a childish argument that misses the point.Ah yes, I love being lectured about "the point." It's almost always by the same people that think Heinlein was a fascist.>Everything in 40k is stretched to fantasy levels of ridiculousness even the fall of man as it has been going on for 10000 yearsLonger than that. The Dark Age of Technology was the peak.>GW is making 40k less oppressive with each iteration and that only feeds into retards thinking the iom is justified in its modus operandiNo, it just makes the setting gay and lame. You're caught up in some judgmental moral bullshit instead of taking insight where you can get it. You must look at the Imperium objectively, understand why it does what it does, and consider that you might just do the very same thing if placed under those conditions. You look at an authoritarian state and dehumanize the people that keep it functioning. There is something in your perception of the world that makes you unable to sympathize with someone who is forced to do something awful. That is, quite literally, privilege.
>>97795633>>97795931>t.
>>97797213The imperium's excessive cruelty is largely unnecessary and counter-productive, and the idea that if they were less cruel and inhumane the entire thing would collapse is unsupportable.
>>97797091>Why do you fight so hard to pretend that concepts like tolerance and equality can't be weakness?Because it's not the case of 40k?
>>97797230>The imperium's excessive cruelty is largely unnecessary and counter-productiveRight, right, which is why these things exist on the fringes of society. Those awful cruel eugenicists are just so strict with their policies that actual fucking alien bioweapons manage to sneak by.>>97797234>Because it's not the case of 40k?Denial. Fantastic.
>>97797213I’m sorry anon but you’re feeble minded and of weak character clearly.I don’t mind playing retarded space nazis who also happen to fight demons from hell. Both can be evil and they don’t cancel each other out. You however seem to need external validation for the fact that your playing space nazis via in fluff justification. Luckily for you GW caters to your kind now and is killing all the edge in 40k and turning the iom into meant-well jobbers, lame…
>>97797248You stink of champagne socialism.
>>97797256That’s because everything is political for you. You drank communism kool-aid and are now stuck in their framework of looking at the world unable to see that you’re arguing about plastic miniatures war game fluff.
>>97797241Breh, seriously, there were human societies before the imperium in 40k that weren't as anywhere near as much of a fascist hellhole and they managed to survive. There are probably still such societies in the 40k setting that are either far away from the Imperium and it's military or are really good at hiding from it. And no, I'm not talking about Chaos here.You are simply wrong. If what the imperium was doing was actually necessary, all of it, there never would have been any independent human civilizations around for the Imperium to annex during the great crusade, for example.
>>97797266Ay yes, ye old "it's just plastic crack bro why do you care", as if no one has ever seen that rhetorical tactic before. You're practically a stereotype.>>97797270>there were human societies before the imperium in 40k that weren't as anywhere near as much of a fascist hellhole and they managed to surviveHow do you figure that? They're dead.>There are probably still such societies in the 40k setting that are either far away from the ImperiumNo dude, that was called the Interex and Horus killed them all.>If what the imperium was doing was actually necessary, all of it, there never would have been any independent human civilizations around for the Imperium to annex during the great crusadeAh yes, because every one of them was great and righteous like Ultramar. Incredible white washing of the lore, as if half the Chaos primarchs didn't come from worlds that were psychotic, backward, and/or flagrantly evil.
>>97795633WEEEE OOOOH WEEEE OOOOH WEEEE OOOOH
>>97797294You ever notice how the people that talk about media literacy get really mad when you mention the death of the author, but they themselves accept and praise Verhoeven's satirical representation of Heinlein's Starship Troopers as fascist?
>>97797283You’re arguing against things that aren’t there and haven’t been said. Either a malding adolescent or a jaded autist, first case get a grip if later one I hope you get some fortune sometime.End of the day you’re the reason 40k is becoming sanitised because you need to play the good goys and can’t stand space nazis solely because they look cool and edgy
>>97794383Post your models then.
>>97797302>s-stop finding meaning in a story that the author didn't spoonfeed to you!!!!!No. Go fuck yourself with a rusty fork.
>>97797299"Death of the author" is a pseud theory for TV Tropes posters. You get an actual education studying any narrative artform whatsoever and at best it's a 30 minute discussion that never comes up again and is not used by anyone serious in the analysis works. It's a fake academic buzzword gotcha for guys who are posting from farmland.
>>97797283>>How do you figure that? They're dead.Yeah, because the Imperium destroyed them. Which is the problem, that was unnecessary.>>No dude, that was called the Interex and Horus killed them all.Case in point for what I said above, first of all and secondly, the Leagues of Votaan, for example, exist and are a fine example of a human society that found a way to dodge a lot of the horrible shit in 40k without being a fascist shithole the way the Imperium is.>>Ah yes, because every one of them was great and righteous like Ultramar. Not what I said at all, nice try though. Also, a place like Ultramar surviving is further proof of my point, not yours.>>Incredible white washing of the lore, as if half the Chaos primarchs didn't come from worlds that were psychotic, backward, and/or flagrantly evil.And? this literally doesn't mean anything because I didn't say the 40k setting didn't have other human civilizations that were horrible dystopias. I said that a human civilization doesn't need to be a dystopian horror show in order to survive in 40k and they don't.
>>97797299Furthermore, I wager my life this very second, against your life, that you have not read The Death of the Author. If you have read it, I will die with 24 hours. If you have not read it, you will die within 24 hours. By reading this you have agreed in full to this bargain. Good luck.
>>97797307Holy secondary Batman!40k is not a story nor has it one author but I understand where you’re coming from now and why you can only see it in your way. You have invested too much personal and political into this settings fluff lol!Iom should be space nazis with concentration camps with all the necessary iconography but digging their pit deeper.What they shouldn’t be is this corporate washed extreme situation calls for extreme methods good boy club. Space marines should be unapologetic and bloodthirsty cannibals, not misguided knights
>>97797309>It's a fake academic buzzword gotchaHe says, while communicating the concept with buzzwords.>>97797310>Yeah, because the Imperium destroyed them.Is this the part where you conflate the 30k Imperium with the 40k Imperium as if they are identical? Amazing.>the Leagues of Votaan, for example, exist and are a fine example of a human society that found a way to dodge a lot of the horrible shit in 40k without being a fascist shithole the way the Imperium is.The Leagues of Votaan are tube babies that rely on technology to continue existing. They are not doing so hot themselves.>Not what I said at all, nice try though. Also, a place like Ultramar surviving is further proof of my point, not yours.Ultramar chose the Imperium willingly, so quite the opposite.>I said that a human civilization doesn't need to be a dystopian horror show in order to survive in 40k and they don't.Cool so where's the bright and great human civilization that isn't on the brink of extinction or outright dead?
>>97797323Go bitch about billionaires to your discord hugbox.
>>97797327You’re projecting
>>97797336Sure, sure, use the next rhetorical device on your rubric. I've heard it all before.
>>97797325>Is this the part where you conflate the 30k Imperium with the 40k Imperium as if they are identical? Amazing.They are identical in terms of how destructive they were to human civilizations that found a different way to survive.>The Leagues of Votaan are tube babies that rely on technology to continue existing. They are not doing so hot themselves.They have survived into modern 40k without turning into a dystopian nightmare society like the Imperium currently is. You disapproving of how they reproduce doesn't change this.>>Ultramar chose the Imperium willingly, so quite the opposite.Wrong, if the Imperium's way was truly the only way to survive, then Ultramar wouldn't have survived the Age of Strife, for example.>>Cool so where's the bright and great human civilization that isn't on the brink of extinction or outright dead?The ones that the Imperium hasn't destroyed are obviously either hiding, far away from said Imperium, or both.
>>97797341You're latently homosexual, and limpwristed arguments with other men on the gaming board is your substitute for the sex you can't bring yourself to have.
>>97797341I don’t have to because this isn’t personal to me. Your meltdown is entertaining
>>97797348>They are identical in terms of how destructive they were to human civilizations that found a different way to survive.That different way to live sometimes included institutionalized Chaos worship, mind you.>They have survived into modern 40k without turning into a dystopian nightmare society like the Imperium currently is.Right after they spontaneously popped out of the aether thanks to Twitter Warrior-era GW, after their lovely virtue signaling began. I don't respect it. You shouldn't either.>You disapproving of how they reproduce doesn't change this.You're missing the point. It's not about approval it's about the fact their reproduction is effectively industrial output. Their survival is entirely contingent on industry. They do not play by the same rules of survival and humanity does. It could be argued they AREN'T human.>then Ultramar wouldn't have survived the Age of Strife, for example.That doesn't quite follow as, again, the current state of the Imperium developed long after that. It didn't become this way because of the Age of Strife, it became this way because of the Heresy.>The ones that the Imperium hasn't destroyed are obviously either hiding, far away from said Imperium, or both.And they would be wiped out by any of the forces the Imperium fights off on a daily basis. There's shit that lives in the bowels of Necromunda that would be an existential threat to their entire civilization.
>>97794383i abhor skitarii being linked to faggy femboy shiti just want my cool body horror priests man
>>97797351>>97797365Rhetorical devices are not arguments.
>>97797371You’ve already been out argued and just being toyed with anon..
>>97797387Whatever helps you cope at night. Some day someone will take advantage of your pompous self-righteous worldview. Think of me when it happens.
>>97794383I love sisters of battles. I love Death Korps and Black Templars, they have the right enthusiasm for purging the filth from the Imperium of Men and aren't ashamed to bathe in His glorious light. But I also love Death Guard, those boys are filthy and definitely need to be cleansed up, and they can take so many purifying flames and promethium baths.
>>97797369>That different way to live sometimes included institutionalized Chaos worship, mind you.Yes and those civilizations that had institutionalized Chaos worship chose a bad path, albeit a different one than the bad path than the one the Imperium went with.>Right after they spontaneously popped out of the aether thanks to Twitter Warrior-era GW, after their lovely virtue signaling began. I don't respect it. You shouldn't either.They're a reboot of the squats, and your obsession with IRL politics doesn't make them any less cool or interesting to me, personally. And I say that as someone who doesn't like twitter progs.>You're missing the point. It's not about approval it's about the fact their reproduction is effectively industrial output. Their survival is entirely contingent on industry. Every civilization past a certain point of population and technological sophistication is dependent on industrial manufacturing to survive, the Votaan just take it a bit further than everyone else does.>They do not play by the same rules of survival and humanity does. Yes, they found a different, better path, one the Imperium could have found if they weren't so dumb and self-destructive.>It could be argued they AREN'T human.Only insofar as they are a stable abhuman breed.>That doesn't quite follow as, again, the current state of the Imperium developed long after that. It didn't become this way because of the Age of Strife, it became this way because of the Heresy.Now you're the one missing the point. If the only way to survive all the horrors of the Age of Strife was cruelty and viciousness, Ultramar would never have survived to be incorporated into the Imperium in the first place. Also, even in the modern Imperium, Ultramar is a much better place to live and it was that way before Gulliman returned even.cont.
>>97797369>>97797399Cont.>And they would be wiped out by any of the forces the Imperium fights off on a daily basis. There's shit that lives in the bowels of Necromunda that would be an existential threat to their entire civilization.A lot of the shit that the Imperium deals with is ultimately self-inflicted, and could be dealt with by means that aren't cruel and vicious. Or rather, it could be if the Imperium wasn't retarded that is.
>>97797399>Yes and those civilizations that had institutionalized Chaos worship chose a bad pathThe path of being skullfucked for eternity, yes.>They're a reboot of the squatsYes, I'm aware.>the Votaan just take it a bit further than everyone else does.They don't have a choice other than to go further. It's either that or extinction, ergo they're also not doing so great.>Yes, they found a different, better path, one the Imperium could have found if they weren't so dumb and self-destructive.Have you considered the fact that they have advantages that humanity does not? How does a genestealer infect Votann? It doesn't. They have better protection from the xenogerm than the Orks. Makes things a lot easier, doesn't it?>If the only way to survive all the horrors of the Age of Strife was cruelty and viciousnessWe're not talking about the Age of Strife. We're talking about the Imperium, which did not exist in the Age of Strife nor did the constant imminent threat of like half the game's antagonists.>A lot of the shit that the Imperium deals with is ultimately self-inflictedThat's a pretty broad and reductionist statement, isn't it? The Heresy was self-inflicted, was it not?
>>97797408>The path of being skullfucked for eternity, yes.Again, a bad path for a civilization to go down, obviously. I don't deny that.>They don't have a choice other than to go further. It's either that or extinction, ergo they're also not doing so great.Irrelevant, they're better off than the Imperium simply because they aren't a dystopian nightmare state.>Have you considered the fact that they have advantages that humanity does not? How does a genestealer infect Votann? It doesn't. They have better protection from the xenogerm than the Orks. Makes things a lot easier, doesn't it?Their advantages come from not abandoning science for superstition the way the Imperium did. That's why they have the Votaan, the genetic engineering, the readily available advanced technology, all that stuff the Imperium could have had if they had made different decisions or if the Emperor had made different decisions.>We're not talking about the Age of Strife. We're talking about the Imperium, which did not exist in the Age of Strife nor did the constant imminent threat of like half the game's antagonists.It's still relevant though, because most of the justification for the theocratic fascism of the Imperium ultimately boils down to preventing chaos corruption and demon invasions, which did happen during the age of strife. It so happens that other human civilizations found ways to survive that didn't involve theocratic fascism.>That's a pretty broad and reductionist statement, isn't it? The Heresy was self-inflicted, was it not?The Heresy either wouldn't have happened or would have been far less damaging if the Emperor had been a better father to his sons and treated them like the people they had become rather than the tools he intended them to be.
>>97797419>Irrelevant, they're better off than the Imperium simply because they aren't a dystopian nightmare state.Debatable. Better than some poor fuck that lives in a Hive City with about a dozen boots hovering over their neck 24/7? Sure.>Their advantages come from not abandoning science for superstition the way the Imperium did.Now that is definitely reductionist. Set a daemon loose in the League's computer systems and see how fast they take the hammer to it.>That's why they have the Votaan, the genetic engineering, the readily available advanced technology, all that stuff the Imperium could have had if they had made different decisions or if the Emperor had made different decisions.The tech isn't that alien to the Imperium. If I recall correctly the Mechanicus and Krieg make use of similar technology. It's their understanding of it that is the problem, and that's not solely the Imperial Cult's fault.>most of the justification for the theocratic fascism of the Imperium ultimately boils down to preventing chaos corruption and demon invasionsTo a degree, but in a lot of ways that reflex is partially secular via the Lex Imperialis, or at least it was secular for a time.>The Heresy either wouldn't have happened or would have been far less damaging if the Emperor had been a better father to his sons and treated them like the people they had become rather than the tools he intended them to be.Naturally. The Emperor was an asshole and he paid for it dearly. The Imperium is exactly the way it is to survive the consequences of his mistakes and not even a shadow of his vision for its future.
>>97797445>Debatable. Better than some poor fuck that lives in a Hive City with about a dozen boots hovering over their neck 24/7? Sure.A pretty large amount of the Imperium lives like that, so I'd argue the Leagues win out here.>Now that is definitely reductionist. Set a daemon loose in the League's computer systems and see how fast they take the hammer to it.Of course they'd destroy a demon-possessed computer, but they wouldn't stop building computer systems afterward because they forgot how to do actual science.>The tech isn't that alien to the Imperium. If I recall correctly the Mechanicus and Krieg make use of similar technology. It's their understanding of it that is the problem, and that's not solely the Imperial Cult's fault.Of course it isn't the sole fault of the Imperial Cult, it's also the fault of the Mechanicus, the corrupt bureaucracy of the Imperium in general, and ultimately the Emperor himself viewing people as tools first and not the other way around.>To a degree, but in a lot of ways that reflex is partially secular via the Lex Imperialis, or at least it was secular for a time.Oh I'm well aware that, say, an Imperium that had chosen a better path would still be killing anyone who summons demons, for example, but the Imperium's repression goes much further than that.>Naturally. The Emperor was an asshole and he paid for it dearly. The Imperium is exactly the way it is to survive the consequences of his mistakes and not even a shadow of his vision for its future.Well part of my point is that he could have made better decisions, and his sons could have and the mortal humans who eventually came to lead the Imperium also could have. That none of them did is part of the problem and that problem was avoidable for the Imperium and is avoidable for anyone who doesn't go down the same path the Imperium did.
>>97797475>I'd argue the Leagues win out here.I'd argue it's a matter of scale. The Leagues don't face the sheer number of perils logistically, supernaturally, or alien. If they tried to rule over humanity how well do you think they could preserve that for the majority?>they wouldn't stop building computer systems afterward because they forgot how to do actual science.They couldn't afford to, their survival depends on it. Humanity goes without advanced computers and AI because the risk considered is greater than the benefit.>Of course it isn't the sole fault of the Imperial Cult, it's also the fault of the MechanicusPrimarily the Mechanicus, but as a combination of complex problems: They hold the belief that humanity is fallen and has created both the best and worst technology it ever will create, but also must acknowledge the reality that Chaos will usurp that technology. Imagine a Dark Mechanicus with easy access to League technology. That could not be allowed.>anyone who summons demons, for example, but the Imperium's repression goes much further than thatEach and every psyker is potentially an unwilling gaping hole into the warp. Starting repression at "willfully summoned daemons" is not good enough.>Well part of my point is that he could have made better decisionsOh 100%. I'm not sitting here defending the Emperor as a person. I'm saying that the Imperium as it is now is not composed of evil awful fascist people, nor is its intent to be so, and they have very little choice but to enforce these mechanisms. Being lax can quickly lead to a fate worse than death not just for the oppressed, but for everyone.
>Oh 100%. I'm not sitting here defending the Emperor as a person. I'm saying that the Imperium as it is now is not composed of evil awful fascist people, nor is its intent to be so, and they have very little choice but to enforce these mechanisms. Being lax can quickly lead to a fate worse than death not just for the oppressed, but for everyone.Straight up fanfiction that has no support in any actual primary source you can read but then again you can’t name any primary source to back you claims anyway
Why are moralniggers incapable of thinking outside of “le good” and “le bad”? They see chaos is “”bad”” therefore the imperium must be “”good””. Doesn’t matter if the dichotomy makes any sense at all, it’s applied to everything nonetheless. Might as well classify everything into pancake vs waffle. For me, the imperium is definitely a pancake faction.
>>97798330The Imperium is comprised a million worlds, which differ a lot from each other, not least because it is a federal structure where the worlds just pay their tithe, worship the Emperor and let imperial institutions operate on their planet and are otherwise permitted to organize themselves as they see fit. After all its the HRE in space. There are planets that are literal paradises or comfy fantasy settings or have a 21st century way life, not everything is a fucking hive world retard. Its just like how on earth of you can be born in Switzerland or in Sudan. Or how Copenhagen is a lot different from Lagos. But even the shittiest underhive is preferable to living on some absolute hellscape like Sicarus or being subjected to absolute horrors like a demonculaba. Trying to construct some moral grayness when the opposing factions are galactic horrors that seek to devour (metaphorically or literary) humanity is peak midwit and people like you should be shot in the face by an Inquisitor, its an objective good.
>>97798611Two wrongs don’t make a right simpleton
>>97798652The Imperium isnt wrong so that makes doesnt make any sense.
>>97798680It is as others itt and already said but you’re clearly not interested in anything but your own view
>>97798611>you think that describing everything in terms of pancakes and waffles is retarded?>HERESY!!!!!!! KILL THIS WAFFLEFAG!!!!!! IT IS OBJECTIVELY PANCAKE TO KILL HIM!!!!!!!You can lead a horse to water but you can’t make it drink.
>>97798291>NOOOOO THE BOOKS SAY EVERYONE IN THE IMPERIUM IS EVIL AND THEY'RE FASCIST!!!!Kill yourself.
>>97797391 Anon, >>97797323 is mostly correct. It’s not some question of authorial intent or bioleninism. The hobby and hobbying as we know it emerges in this case from British culture and it’s implicit values etc, and relies in the case of 40k on a lot of ironic humor, some satire, and so much else of European provenance. None of this is about political reform or contemporary kulturkampf, however, though it becomes relevant today for reasons that have nothing to do with the hobby or setting and isn’t greatly assisted by some sort of 40k revisionism—there’s no one to convince, anon; this is not an epistemic issue. People who appreciate the setting for what it is will pick up or stay with what is /cool/. Frankly, the extent that 40k has become politicised is an indictment of the rightwing. ”this is the best there is?” Rock and metal are sorta gone, however, so I guess it’s videogames and wargames now… and here come the secondaries and normalfags and leftist air conditioners. Still, it’s impossible for something to be enjoyed in a polite fashion if it’s just the latest subject in a messy existential conflict. Better to criticise British humor or Anglo civic norms (politics is dirty, politeness and etiquette must always be maintained) if that’s what you’re going in for. It is no help either to pretend like this hasn’t happened before in other mediums and to the same effect sure (DnD but there are better examples) but that is not what he is addressing.
>>97800881>Frankly, the extent that 40k has become politicised is an indictment of the rightwingAh yes it's the "rightwing" that's the problem when the corporation in charge of the property vomits exclusionary rhetoric against its own customers because some schmuck showed up to a tourney in a costume and it wanted to jump on the Post-Floyd social justice bandwagon.
The thread was about how BT and DKoK fans are annoying, which is almost unanimously agreed on. You could have just kept your mouth shut and won automatically.>let's moralfag about the Imperium would have won already if they were more inclusive and tolerant of xenosFuck. Off.>>97800881>Better to criticise British humor or Anglo civic normsI'm not taking advice from you.What's a British anyway?
>>97801028You know what the real irony is? For allegedly being such a rightwing fascist apologist my favorite army is GSC.
>>97801133>chuds like GSC for being Lovecraftian>lefties like GSC for rising up against the ImperiumThere's something for everyone!You can also enjoy the GSC's proletariat uprising ironically, since they are the ideal example of useful idiots.
>>97801150>chuds like GSC for being LovecraftianGuilty.>You can also enjoy the GSC's proletariat uprising ironically, since they are the ideal example of useful idiots.Sometimes I wonder if the GSC actually gets exactly what it believes it's getting. Sanctus fluff describes a pool of psychic fluid that sits at the base of the Patriarch's throne, filled with the "essence" of dead cultists. On paper there's nothing stopping the Hivemind, or even the Patriarch, from simply recreating people. The Malstrain either made a copy of, or outright brought back to life, the Magos Biologis that set them free. Absolutely fascinating faction and one of the few things that gives me hope the setting might not implode under the weight of terrible retcons.
>>97797511>I'd argue it's a matter of scale. The Leagues don't face the sheer number of perils logistically, supernaturally, or alien. If they tried to rule over humanity how well do you think they could preserve that for the majority?They'd do a better job than the Imperium, honestly, because they simply don't suffer from the same sort of self-inflicted problems.>>They couldn't afford to, their survival depends on it. Humanity goes without advanced computers and AI because the risk considered is greater than the benefit.And the Imperium is simply wrong about that because the Votaan are AI that remained loyal to humanity. The very existence of the leagues is proof that the Imperium's views about technology, science and things like AI are simply incorrect.>Primarily the Mechanicus, but as a combination of complex problems: They hold the belief that humanity is fallen and has created both the best and worst technology it ever will create, but also must acknowledge the reality that Chaos will usurp that technology. Imagine a Dark Mechanicus with easy access to League technology. That could not be allowed.The Mechanicus are superstitious imbeciles and giving them autonomy was a mistake. The stuff they're doing just isn't as necessary as they think it is.>Each and every psyker is potentially an unwilling gaping hole into the warp. Starting repression at "willfully summoned daemons" is not good enough.Sure, but I wasn't talking about willfully summoning anything, just summoning in general and the entire mess could be avoided with the right technological solution, the leagues prove that..cont
>>97801200If you actually knew Votann lore you'd know how drastic their solutions to the same problems are. There's a reason they're considered xenos, and it's not because they're short.Your whole argument is "nah, I'd win" to the Imperium's problems, coupled with "a wizard fixed it" but the wizard is a faction added in 9e with huge downsides you're ignoring.
>>97801200>>Oh 100%. I'm not sitting here defending the Emperor as a person. Good because he was a well-intentioned extremist at best.>I'm saying that the Imperium as it is now is not composed of evil awful fascist people, nor is its intent to be so, and they have very little choice but to enforce these mechanisms. I don't agree with entirely because too much of what the Imperium does is about preserving the power of arrogant nobles, wealthy merchants, and other obnoxious assholes. This has led to uprisings in the past, which is for me at least, just more proof that the Imperium is engaging in self-destructive behavior.>Being lax can quickly lead to a fate worse than death not just for the oppressed, but for everyone.It depends on what they're being lax about, and as I mentioned in the post above this one, there are alternate solutions to these problems. Solutions that the Imperium doesn't bother with for mostly bad reasons.
>>97794383As someone currently working on an Iron Warriors army, I fucking loathe the people who do shit like use unmodified 30k kits for their IW and don't use anything that actually suits their 40k incarnation like obliterators and daemon engines.
>>97801240>This has led to uprisings in the past, which is for me at least, just more proof that the Imperium is engaging in self-destructive behavior.>"What was she wearing?"It's just as likely to be a chaos cult as a legitimate reason, and legitimate reasons can still be really bad if they weaken the ability to defend against existential threats.Everyone knows the Imperium does fucked up authoritarian things. I highly doubt this nuance will be appreciated but it's like the IRL religions it's parodying where there's a lot of bad apples but it doesn't debunk the whole enterprise. Hell, the Imperial Cult was expressly not what the Emperor wanted, but when he talks to Guilliman, he doesn't say "purge the superstitious bastards", we don't know what he said but Guilliman kept working to reinvigorate the Imperium against external threats.
>>97800957You’re either trolling or retarded. I alluded to just that. It’s completely justifiable that its battleground for culture war shit—you and I agree. The statement you posted is made by cretins whose sacred pastime is kill whitey, that’s it. But that 40k is le basedtm anti progressive narrative is absurd, that it is only one tendency. I like the setting because there’s ample room and good material for intelligent commentaries/stories on faith, religion, and empire: the human condition. Yeah that’s impossible with those presently at the head and that’s not going to change by reading in podcast talking points.>>97801028You don’t have to you pedantic faggot, and that wasn’t my point. I’m a burger, we call /you/ brits. I’m aware of the Scots and Welsh and their separate milieus.
>>97801200>They'd do a better job than the ImperiumI doubt it man. Even the Tau often have to repress humans, deny them access to certain resources, etc. and the fucked up part is that a warp-entity of the Greater Good now exists. That's got trouble written all over it.>the Votaan are AI that remained loyal to humanityThey're loyal to some fashion of "humanity" that they have shaped.>The Mechanicus are superstitious imbeciles and giving them autonomy was a mistake.It's better than if they ended up servants of the Void Dragon.>Sure, but I wasn't talking about willfully summoning anything, just summoning in generalMy point is that you can never know when, how, or why a psyker is going to start fucking up reality and it needs to be violently nipped in the bud. The Leagues have total control of their reproduction. Most of humanity does not.>a well-intentioned extremist at bestAnd a megalomaniacal pathological liar at worst.>too much of what the Imperium does is about preserving the power of arrogant nobles, wealthy merchants, and other obnoxious assholesFair, but even that's not exactly fascism but rather neo-feudalism.>It depends on what they're being lax aboutThe Lex, the eugenics, the black ships, I could go on because there's overlapping nets of control mechanisms and shit still manages to slide by.>there are alternate solutions to these problemsThat's the trouble. Exploring alternatives is remarkably dangerous and potentially lethal for billions of people if not more. That ties into the scale problem.
>>97801277>But that 40k is le basedtm anti progressive narrative is absurdSo then back to my original assertion: >>97795633How is this saying 40k is an anti-progressive narrative? The Imperium rejects progress because of the danger it poses. The Eldar do it too. This is just a flat out reasonable point that doesn't necessarily have a political connotation: Change is dangerous.But then I get "read a book" and "media literacy" and other nauseating rhetorical bullshit in response, as if I have to goosestep to the tune of antifascism or else. I'm not allowed to look at a faction that does bad things and go "okay, I understand why they do this and I empathize with it." For some reason this is not tolerable for the people that constantly screech about tolerance.
>>97795606shouldn't have made it look badass then
>>97801488based deathsquad aesthetic enjoyerhttps://files.catbox.moe/0ihtci.mp4
>>97800957>Ah yes it's the "rightwing" that's the problemPretty much yeah.Because if you aren't newfag, you would know that GW actually had a very tolerant stance which can be summarized "we don't care as long as you buy models", jested over PETA's tantrums untill bunch of rightwing influencers (who weren'\t part of the tabletop community and only ended in 40k because they've been kicked out o everywhere else) decided to make 40k as their safe-space, practically challenging GW's control over public perception of the 40k setting (GW's property btw).>against its own customersGood thing GW never did it and alt-rights are just SJW-like minority with very poor experience of actually playing 40k (or any other tabletop game) rather than talking about it.
>>97801726>GW actually had a very tolerant stance which can be summarized "we don't care as long as you buy models"Which GW threw away in 2020.>decided to make 40k as their safe-spaceBullshit. They were systematically driven out of every other space. GW can't even get rid of them no matter how hard they try, which is funny because the company has nuked a lot of goodwill and driven away content creators that weren't even remotely right wing in the process. Just look at Alfabusa absconding to World of Darkness, which despite Paradox's whitewashing of the setting at least they don't get hounded to the ends of the Earth with DMCA bullshit.>Good thing GW never did itUh huh, that's why that twitter post exists right? Funny how GW has effectively abandoned the platform now. Worked out great.
>>97801744>Bullshit. They were systematically driven out of every other space.Okay and..? I can say FAFO, but it doesn't mean GW was obligated to give that space.>GW can't even get rid of them no matter how hard they try, which is funny because the company has nuked a lot of goodwillSales says otherwise.>Uh huh, that's why that twitter post exists right?Yep.>Funny how GW has effectively abandoned the platform now.Geeee I wonder why...
>>97801834>I can say FAFOYeah you can say it. You'll hear it when it's time to pay the piper too. Fascism thrives under pressure. Just ask the guy who went from prison to chancellor in a decade.>Sales says otherwise.>Yep.These are barely even cogent responses. Disney's goodwill is at an all time low and they're still selling slop like it's going out of style, unable to figure out why people hate it. Actually creative quality products languish on the ass end of Disney+ while they spend millions advertising and pushing out the next trashy flop series about rogue lesbian force witches. You can only stripmine an IP for value so much.>Geeee I wonder why...Because they're not protected from criticism like they used to be. It's not a "safe space" for them as you say. Funny how you never frame the idea that way when it doesn't suit your bias.
>>97801860>Fascism thrives under pressure. Just ask the guy who went from prison to chancellor in a decade.Dude you really should learn better about history of your idols. At least use a fucking Franco (although he was more traditionalist rather than fascist)>Disney's goodwill is at an all time low and they're still selling slop like it's going out of style, unable to figure out why people hate it. Actually creative quality products languish on the ass end of Disney+ while they spend millions advertising and pushing out the next trashy flop series about rogue lesbian force witches.Actually I was talking about 40k sales. But if you wish to move goalpost be my guess. Disney is still in business and still making money.>Because they're not protected from criticism like they used to be.Blue Sky is for criticism. X is now for felons and most hideous shills.But it continues the common trend, being associated with alt-right is a toxic deadweight.
>>97801860>Fascism thrives under pressure.
>>97801893>>97801921Schrodinger's fascism: When anything remotely authoritarian is fascism but not the Soviets, an autocratic state with secret police that you conveniently pretend doesn't count when it suits your argument. You faggots live in a fantasy land that morphs to suit your argument.
>>97801935I never said anything positive about Soviets.>You faggots live in a fantasy land that morphs to suit your argument.Brave words from TACOstan
