Is there ANY miniature wargame that isn't insanely expensive? I'm talking about things you can buy in a box and play immediately, not "print your own minis" bullshit or things where you're forced to use proxies cause official models don't exist.
>>97810757>I'm talking about things you can buy in a box and play immediatelyThat's corpo bullshit, so of course it's going to be more expensive.You can play most skirmish games with a book and a box or two of generic minis. And plenty of those books are free (intentionally or otherwise).
>>97810757Define insanely expensive.
>>97810814Expensive to the point it causes a bout of insanity in a non-wealthy individual.
>>97810757You've just posted it
>>97810814>Define insanely expensive."Warhammer-like"The reason for this thread was that I saw the TC thread where the starter set was 16 tiny models for 120 bucks (insane) and immediately after that watched a video about Warcrow, which was even more expensive. It seems to me that every company has chosen the model where they sell a pitifully small handful of plastic for astronomical $$$ and don't even try to offer good value.
>>97810757Battletech. The boxes are very reasonably priced, come with everything you need, and you don't need many models in the first place.
>>97810893This is the best answer
>>97810893>25$I should buy a couple of these and use them on my mecha rpg campaign
>>97810757Rock pile wargame >>97807246
>>97810757Brikwars
>>978107571/72 and 1/32 are cheap.
>>97811217>lego>cheap
Gaslands.You buy the rule book and play with the Matchbox, Hot Wheels or whatever toy cars you have at hand.
>>97810893Also worth noting that most BT players are fine with proxy models and the rules explicitly state the game is miniature agnostic; you just need a rock or a coin or something with a clearly-defined front facing and you’re good to go, as long as it can be recognized among your other rocks/coins. Standees and 3D prints are other popular options if you don’t want to shell out 35 dollars for a 4-pack of mechs that has the one mech you want.
>>97810757>Gaslands Refuelled would be my top answer. All you need is toy cars of any scale and it's not WYSIWYG so painting and adding guns is optional. Even then you could skip the painting and just add bits and have good looking guys. It's more like madmax than war though so you might not be interested in that.>Toy Soldiers like your pic relatedQuality has went down the toilet and the poses suck, also need basing due to instability. Good choice if you're into it. Weird scale though.>Print/2D flatsVary in quality and availability. You could play fantasy skirmish games with bought RPG sets easy. Doing your own prints is nice but requires some set up with cardboard, printer and knowledge of GIMP/PS etc.>Budget as fuck counters, chits, poker chips, JENGA blocksThe patricians choice. Pure imagination and actually can look really good on table if you know what you're doing with budget terrain.>granny grating/knitting mesh/hair roller armiesA sheet cost like $2, glue them to a base and some cheap paint and you can get huge armies for next to nothing. Roughly 6mm scale though.>>97810893>$25 for two minisWhat a shit answer. Battletech does only need 2-4 minis but it only needs proxies anyway.I personally have tried everything listed and what worked for me was 15mm minis.
>>97810893>>97810989This.The Beginner Box only contains two mechs and abbreviated rules though, I can't really recommend it except to someone who has never played a game. The "A Game of Armored Combat" Box, which has eight mechs and pretty much complete rules (along with mapsheets, a really useful quick reference table, cardboard standees and some other stuff) goes for 60$. That's a bit more expensive, but you get a complete game and you only have to find someone willing to play with you.Protip for if you're cheap: Since the game is hex-based, you don't even need miniatures to play BattleTech, just a hexmap and some markers. Get the Rulebook from the box or the BattleMech Manual (basically the same ruleset just with more special case rules, not important when trying the game). Just look into the links in the BattleTech General on here.
>>97810757Even if given games to play you would still find a reason to refuse it because this thread isn't about finding a game to play..... It's about shitposting.
>>97811330Is this really a wargame or jus tmad max racing?
>>97810757you can play warhammer with a bunch of pebbles.
>>97810757Pretty much every skirmish-level game. A single box of miniatures will usually have you set up to play.
>>97811387>>Toy Soldiers like your pic related>Quality has went down the toiletA while ago I found one of the ones I had in the 90's and the quality was incredible. I tried to look it up online and turns out there are dozens of plastic army dudes covering every single conflict in the 20th century. Like, you can play Mandela taking over Yugoslavia.
>>97811286>>97811774Pull whatever you've got out of the box of army-men, assign unit inches, scramble the armies and run vehicles as MOCs.
>>97811730Why would you? People like warhammer because of the setting and models. If you don't have either on the tabletop you might as well play a different wargame that doesn't have shitty rules.
>>97810757Literally the game that started the entire genre of all games on this board, Little Wars by HG Wells. Designed to be played with any toy soldiers you have around as well as a functional toy gun of some kind. In our day and age, a box of toy soldiers and a foam dart gun of any brand will do fine.
>>97812146>the game that started the entire genre of all games on this boardyou mean chess?
>>97812146When I was a kid my brother and I would take turns throwing a single marble back and forth at each other's toy army men. The dart gun isn't even needed. The most OP troops were the ones in the prone position
>>97810893The new core rule book, starter box, and core box are coming out this year. The old Total Warfare book has been holding back the game since it was published. I swear every player I run into claims that they use that book, but they just make up house ruled bullshit because they either never read it, misunderstood it, or don't use 99% of the rule set anyway. I am so sick to death of this. The A Game of Armored Combat core rules and box set are peak though and are a fantastic standalone game.
>>97810889Again, define expensive.You spend $100-200 and you can basically play forever. Alternatively, buy the bucket of green army men for $5, and private some pdf with rules. And if even that is not cheap enough, use cardboard or paper tokens for miniatures with your pirated rules
>>97811286>LegoAt this point (2026), bricks from china, Poland and the US are not only cheaper, but also better quality than Lego. Even the prints on the fake Lego minifigures are better than the originals, for a quarter of the price. Official Lego is dead and only the equivalent of GW/40k "collectors" would buy it
i really like battletech. minis are cheap and not necessary, and the big box is chock full of all you need
>>97810757Where does this weird mindset come from, that a hobby should be as cheap as possible? Do you enter RC cars with "which one is the cheapest option possible?" Do you approach car tuning with "which brake disks are the cheapest I can get?" I don't understand it. Pick rules and minis according to your taste, and then see how you can get those particular things for the best price possible, but don't got for whatever game/minis as long as it's cheap. Because if all you look for is cheap, chances are you won't stick to the hobby anyway, because you are not attached to it in any way. You don't like the lore, you have no /yourdudes/ in your mind before your first purchase, because you don't even know anything about your future hobby yet.. only that you want it to be as cheap as possible. And then you sit at home, with cheap stuff, and you realise that you should have picked up game xy for slightly more, because you actually like the lore, and people are actually playing it in your town.
>>97812390>Do you enter RC cars with "which one is the cheapest option possible?yes, absolutely. when entering a hobby, you should get the cheapest gear you can, use it until it breaks, and then if you like it, but the most expensive you can afford.
>>97812390>Where does this weird mindset come from, that a hobby should be as cheap as possible?The current economic depression
>>97812390Hello paypiggy. All high quality hard plastic kits have the same production cost. There is no reason that GWs prices should be 10x higher than Perry Miniatures or Victrix, especially because their volume of sale is so much higher
>>97812390is this pasta?
>>978107571/72 scaleLots of choice (except for sci fi)About 10-20 USD for 50 figures
>>97812407>Buy cheap, buy twiceYeah.. thats what retards do.Ideally, you look what your local scene does or plays, and then go for a good beginner hobby set/item/tool, which is never the very cheapest shit, but obviously also never the high end stuff.
>>97812465You seem to have no concept of "entry level"
>>97811721Both, really. It's an excuse to give beaten-up toy cars a new life by converting them into post-apoc monstrosities, and also an actual game. Surprisingly fun, too.
>>97810757Historicals. It's amazing what inability to copyright a setting or rough miniature design does to prices.
>>97812429Where in that post was any brand mentioned? Buy Perry miniatures. They are great. But they are not the cheapest option. And what game will they be for? Without knowing what is played in that area, no purchase makes sense, because of the nature of the hobby. So again, going for the cheapest will not result in a happy hobby experience, because OP needs others to play with him. So instead of blindly buying a box X (Perry or whatever brand), just because it's cheaper than Warhammer, he should figure out what is played there, and which of those games he likes the most.And then, he should look for the cheapest options for that game in particular. Or maybe he should just buy those green army men and show up in his local hobby store. That will be a success, I'm sure.
>>97812477Cheapest possible is never a good entry level. You want good value for money, so that you can learn from it without breaking it immediately, and also you want to be able to sell it for a somewhat decent price if you realize you do not like the hobby at all.
>>97811632Why do you think every post is ignoring him and instead just sticking to the topic at hand? We already established he was a faggot on the first reply.>>97811721Yes, you can do racing (which has car combat) or you can do deathmatch, ctf and other modes of play. It is a dice and tape wargame.>>97812018Link pls?>>97812166I laffed>>97812326The minis aren't cheap. They're overpriced at $5+ each. I've got some at <0.50 each though.>>97812390>>97812508You are retarded
>>97812239How is TW holding the game back if nobody ever reads it? Battletech is really one of those games that your buddy teaches you, and then you reference the rulebook if you ever want to do something weird. Honestly Battletech could go another 40 years just coasting as it is.
>>97812522>They're overpriced at $5+ eachyou cant buy $5 worth of 40k, BT lets you do baby steps
>>97812143There's a pic that goes around of guys who were stationed in the sandbox playing oldhammer with rocks.Nobody ITT will ever be that OG.
>>97810757>not "print your own minis" bullshit or things where you're forced to use proxies cause official models don't exist.this is the solution thoughevbeight
>>97812684What does that have to do with my point? It's still overpriced.>>97812239>I swear every player I run into claims that they use that book, but they just make up house ruled bullshit because they either never read it, misunderstood it, or don't use 99% of the rule set anyway.Yes, BT rules are made to be modular. The intention is you pick and choose what rules you want to use and you are free to houserule whatever you want. The writers ultimately don't care in what way you want to play with your toy dudes. It's not a game for WAACfags.It's not ideal for pickup games with randoms down the LGS, but that's the point. It's a game for friends/clubs.
>>97813021>It's still overpricedbecause i can go spend $5 on BT and have fun and not spend $50 for less.if im wrong or dumb i get it i still love you
Battletech allows you to use a bottle cap and draw MADCAT on it as long as you know what it is, and where it's facing. It's the correct answer.
>>97812465>Buy the most expensive "in" to a hobby>End up not liking it>Money wasted
>>97812018>you can play Mandela taking over Yugoslavia.>WHO DIED IN PRISON NOW, MOTHERFUCKER!
>>97812465t.paypig
>>97812239>new core rule bookWelp, BT has no future. Fortunately your can just stick to TW and there are 3D prints for every mech after the property goes under again.
>>97810757Any historical
>>97810757
>>97810757Dwarfshttps://em4miniatures.com/collections/plastic-fantasy-miniatures/dwarvesOrcshttps://em4miniatures.com/collections/plastic-fantasy-miniatures/orcsCan't get cheaperAs for rules, you can get those anywhere, or else invent your own.
Almost every single one except specifically the GW main line games and conquest.
>>97810757No
>>97810889You can play Necromunda with just one box. Likewise for Blood Bowl. And MESBG could be one box and a couple of heroes bought cheap second hand. Pretty sure one single troops pack from Victrix would be all you need for SAGA or Frostgrave. <10 minis for Dracula's America or Ronin o En Garde.Yes, there are plenty that are cheap. You do not have to ride GW's paypig scheme in 40k & AoS.
>>97813328TW is the 5th core rulebook. The first core rulebook was the Battletech Compendium, which collected a bunch of rules from box sets, including the 2nd edition core box.If you're okay with playing the seventh iteration of the game, I don't think you'll have too much trouble with the eighth.
>>97812499>, a Bazooka and a pair of knives SHOULD be equally free...A bazooka rocket launcher? Its one shot, the knives work forever. Besides, neither of them do anything if you dont have a 1ü guy to hold them
>>97811434The beginner box is 25 dollars for two mechs, so 12.50 per mechThe core box is 60 dollars for 8 mechs, so a pretty reasonably 7.50 dollars per mechA 35 dollar booster pack with 4 mechs is 8.75 per mechIf you only want the mechs, the beginner box is actually the worst dealThe core box has the most cardboard inside it, coming out as the best deal overall by a wide marginUnless you really want a vindicator, you are better off buying a booster with your favorite mech inside and downloading all the manuals or just go with the core box
>>97814812>A bazooka rocket launcher? Its one shot, the knives work forever. Besides, neither of them do anything if you dont have a 1ü guy to hold themExcept the Rocket Launcher can have as many reloads as possible and are a ranged weapon that does AoE Damage, where the 1ü guy with the knives needs to close the 10 inches to literally touch the bazooka 1ü guy...And nobody will pay 40 bucks for a hardcover that just tells them "I dunno, figure it out for yourself!"
>>97812317Say what you will about GW, but their model quality is fine and their production is reliable. Overpriced? Most definitely, but it beats the hell out of the majority of the knockoff/3D-printed shit.
>>97815243>their model quality is fineNot really, they're still back in the nineties injection molding tech wise, and have been steadily going more mono-posed with few to non-existent options.Even the chinks CGL has assembling their gummy, bottom barrel molds at least cut them out and glue them together for you.
>>97811721There are several scenarios and campaign rules.
>>97813224How does "not high end" translate to "most expensive" in your rotten retard brain?
>>97815250Nobody has advanced past that technology for tabletop miniatures, because there simply is no need for it.
>>97815250isn't assembling/customising the kits part of the hobby.maybe it isn't for trains, i wouldn't know>>97810757any miniatures-based hobby becomes cheap when you know a guy with a 3d printer
>>97815285>because there simply is no need for itBuddy you should have seen the black magic Bandai was pulling in the 2010s...>>97815307>isn't assembling/customising the kits part of the hobby.I mean it can be, but there is an entire spectrum of hobbyist who gravitate towards different aspects.People who like playing the game might not be big on assembling or painting their army, and then you have those who are only in it for the crafting side.James has this weird niche where they want to be predatory on the Crafting end, but as far as Modeling goes their actual molds are mid at best.And as we know game wise, they really suffer from their predatory marketing behavior.
>>97815354Wargames as they are played as of today do not need plastic models of bandai tier quality. It's completely unnecessary. Just because it's possible to make incredible kits does not translate to everything else being bad. Why would a GW space marine or a perry knight or a victory viking need an articulate internal skeleton and several coloured armour pieces?
>>97815469even when comparing it on game pieces, gundam assemble has warhammer quality sculpts at battletech prices
>>97815469>Why would a GW space marine or a perry knight or a victory viking need an articulate internal skeleton and several coloured armour pieces?Honestly they probably wouldn't, but it might be something nice to have on say, a Knight Titan.Honestly the Perry and (I'm assuming) Victrix sets look to be a great value, 38 models for approximately $30 USD and 60 models for approximately $60 USD respectively, but GW is charging the same prices for a half or even a quarter of those models for no readily apparent increase in quality.
>>97815489Gundam assemble is the perfect example why this level of craftsmanship is enough for these type of games. It's made by bandai, and they still went with monopose miniatures, because it's simply what the customers want.
>>97815692but it shows that warhammer is lagging behind, since bandai can get comparable sculpts at lower prices
>>97815554Shifting goalposts? It's about the sculpting and engineering of the molds remember. GW might be stuck in the 90s, but so is everyone else in that market, even bandai themselves does not sell "better" figures for their own skirmish wargame. This has nothing to do with prices, it's just not needed for a wargame, and that is why nobody, including bandai, has ever made articulate robots or mechs or knights or whatever. This is action figure territory, and if you wanted to have a movable knight, joytoy has it. But within the wargame "Warhammer" it simply has no place, similar to how you do not need tank models with full interior and hatches to open, or workable individual linked tracks for a wargame like bolt action. These things exist for scale modellers or collectors, but they do not matter for wargaming
>>97815702Bandai is lagging behind, if they can not make the same amount of money as GW, for a similar product.
>>97815719>This has nothing to do with pricesAgain, GW is charging the same prices for half or even a quarter of the plastic you get from the other companies, which considering the sculps and engineering don't look better makes me question the premium price.>and that is why nobody, including bandai, has ever made articulate robots or mechs...Do you not know what Gunpla is?>>97815728They can outright bury GW, the issue is there just isn't a big enough market for tiny plastic statuettes, let alone at the ridiculous mark-up James charges.
I cannot speak to the cost of 40k or similar games about throwing around multiple platoon strength units. I would recommend Battletech. Unless you intend to recreate the Battle of Tukkayid or something similarly inadvisable you are unlikely to field more than two or three Stars of mechs in a normal tumble about the Circle of Equals, perhaps slightly more if you play Spheroids but then again, whatever it is they call Stars are smaller, and weaker, much like they are.
People claim they want this but ignored Command and Color games and Battlelore.
>>97815785Who gives a shit what they charge. The fact remains that that tiny wargaming market wants exactly what GW (and bandai, and victrix and all the others) provides: non moveable plastic figures. It's up to the customers what they want to pay for them, and as long as GW is making money, their prices can't be wrong. It's a free market after all.
>>97816436and has been shown, you could provide comparable quality at lower pricewarhammer is simply so dominant that it can afford to be worse because of sheer inertia
>>97815785>Do you not know what Gunpla is?Reread the post, and you will realise that it's about wargames, otherwise I would not have used super detailed scale model tanks as comparison to wargaming tanks. Of course gunpla exists. Is it a wargame? There is your answer. Bandai can do crazy shit. Why don't they do those super detailed gunpla models for Gundam assemble? There is your answer why GW will never even attempt to bother - no market for that stuff in their niche. They have the licensed joytoy stuff to make the action figure guys happy.
>>97816445gundam assemble shows that warhammer could afford to lower prices without sacrificing quality, they just dont need to because customer brand loyalty lets them be lazy
>>97815785>Again, GW is charging the same prices for half or even a quarter of the plastic you get from the other companies, which considering the sculps and engineering don't look better makes me question the premium price.For GW product you're paying for marketing. Lore is marketing, cover art is marketing, online tutorials are marketing. Their line of novels used to make a minimum of revenue, but they might make good sales now for all I know, in any case they're marketing. But people like the lore, the art, the novels, etc. That's why many will pay extra for an Ultramarine compared to a generic heavily armoured space soldier, because they don't have a book and a bunch of cool art to tell them that the generic soldier is equally awesome. The fantasy is a big part of playing with toy soldiers, and gw is selling a very attractive fantasy. Once they hook you to the idea of an Ultramarine being cool they can basically set their prices based on the willingness to pay among their fans.That's why GW prices are divorced from cost and physical quality. It's the marketing. Their models are competently made, but you can get that for a fraction of the price if you don't care about the marketing.
>>97816452Yes, they could. And it would be stupid from a business point of view. Why would they literally waste money by lowering their prices? It would be idiotic.
>>97816556this goes back to the original point, GW can get away with being lazy because they have no competitionplastic injection molding has gotten way better over time so they could make far better models for the same price or lower the price on existing modelsthey just choose not too because they know 40k fans will pay whatever they want because they dominate the market
>>97816284>you are unlikely to field more than two or three Stars of mechsAs if Tubbie, your broken tech can easily reach 10,000 BV for only 5 Mechs, and we all know your too attached to your 'One v one, brah' ways to want to field any more than that.>>97816443>and has been shown, you could provide comparable quality at lower price>>97816452Exactly, your Average High Grade kit gets you the same amount of plastic as a Knight Titan for... AT LEAST half the cost!!!Holy fuck, a Armiger Helverins kit cost $100 USD, and is only three sprues per model!Please tell me that it at least comes with the alternate weapon options!So yeah, if James' contemporaries are able to stay afloat charging half as much, Bandai could torpedo the entire market on a whim.>>97816527...Because they could do the EXACT same shit, for cheaper, and still make stupid profit.
>>97815277It can either be cheap, good or fast retard. Learn how the world works
>>97811774...is Brikwars forbidden?
>>97815243>their model quality is fine
>>97816644Apparently...
>>97814078Seconding Blood Bowl. A single box can literally give you years of value.
>>97812160>not Kemet
>>97816646Lol the guy was hedging his bets to pander to faggots like you by saying "fine" instead of "good" or "great" which realistically is the truth about GW's models, but still of course you take offence because you're a disingenuous fuck who can't even acknowledge one good thing about anything he disagrees with - you can't just say "the lore is gay" or "it's overpriced", you have to make up lies to augment your true beliefs. Pathetic.
>>97816452Actually they could not becsuse they're already stretching their manufacturing and supply chain extremely thin and have current products out of stock for multiple consecutive months. If they reduced prices they'd have an increase in demand that they couldn't capitalize on and would just lose money. As a publicly traded company they'd find their CEO getting replaced very quickly.
>>97816722I don't know why I typed this reply to be so mean. Sorry.
>>97810757Once you leave the Shithammer scam sphere it's really not that bad. You can make a 100 figure army with Oathmark figures for a little over 100 USD. Smaller battle games like Pillage or Frostgrave also allow you to spend even less. There's also the big Barons War starter box that you can split with your bro for a measly $65 per person.
Hey guys, remember Mage Knight? HeroClix? You didn't know what you had...
>>97810889Search up "Firelock 198x". It will be on ichio, free core rules free army books and free printable tokens (the only expense will be prinying on a regular 2d printer).
>>97816751People with little understanding always assume if you half the price, it just magically more than doubles the sales. If that would be so easy, why don't all those luxury car brands or clothing brands just reduce their prices. The amount of sales will clearly boost their profit.. all those companies must be led by economical imbeciles because they could make so much more money.
>>97817089I think they are still making HeroClix despite Crisis Protocol being a thing.
>>97816751If only they werent technologically stagnant and able to use the same technology that actual hobby companies use to meet far higher demand with far higher quality
>>97817200Again, why should they if their customers do not ask for it? Which wargame would require such miniatures? What purpose would it serve?Even bandai, who have the knowledge and skill on how to make posable gunpa kits decided to not do that for their own wargame. Why should anyone else?
>>97811387>Toy Soldiers like your pic related>Quality has went downI feel like the quality was better twenty odd years ago when they were basically slightly smaller knockoffs of Airfix/Matchbox germans and british paratroopers. Now they are all copies of copies of copies.
