What would you guys say is the most important skillset for "smart" characters in TTRPGs?>ability to make/build shit>perceptiveness>knowledge
>>97830485What setting worldbuilding?
>>97830485>The player not being a retard.This is why you should just stick to braindead Fightermen, OP.
>>97830906Yeah, came here to say this. Smart people can only be roleplayed by Smart people.
>>97830485A smart player
>>97830485The ability to make use of what they know. That's why Doom and Tony are better than Reed, he invents technology to could change the world and leaves it in a closet. He invented a fucking belt that makes someone the near equal to the Flash, and did nothing with it. Tony might not be as smart, but at least he actually uses his brain to do things besides indulge his hobbies.
>>97833077Yeah each of these has a downsideYou can be mega perceptive but glueless about how to apply your observationsYou can know everything but be helpless to change anythingYou can make anything but you're too autistic to see a project through to its full potential
>>97833077Reed gets paid a lot by companies to not release inventions, especially ones that would basically make them redundant overnight.
>>97830485Intelligence is the ability to find the decisions that have the highest probability of achieving your goals.If all of your goals are most efficiently achieved by violence, then you're intelligent if you're good at violence.If all of your goals are most efficiently achieved by talking to people, then you're intelligent if you're good at talking to people.If your goals require multiple disciplines, then you're intelligent to the degree to which your skill distribution is optimal for those disciplines.
>>97835075You've only got so many EXP points to work with.
>>97830485Intuition. Comic writers are generally midwits, or worse, and they believe that high IQ is like a magic power level that lets people manifest magic items with the power of their super brains. This is often paired with a warped version of savant syndrome where the fictional super genius can pull complex formulas out of their ass, while at the same time being a moral and ethical trainwreck who doesn't understand human emotions or why their planet exploding laser was a bad thing to build, because they were blinded by the orgasmic thrill of SCIENCE.Real intelligence is being able to understand and intuit new information, ideas, complex concepts with speed and clarity. This can be used for decision making, long-term planning, problem solving, and more.
>>97830485Adaptability.
>>97835723>>97835762Buzzwords. We're looking for objective skills.
>>97835146>Be Krog>Be biggest troll (lit-er-uhl) in land>Be strongest>Be fastest>Be toughest>Eat anyone who messes with me>Last guy me ate calls me a ment-uhl in-the-lid>Dunno what that means>Go catch and eat the smartest men in the land>Remember to ask what in-the-lid and read-tard mean>Apparently mean stupid>Krog mad, eat that guy too>Go on favorite treasure-gathering board>'If all of your goals are most efficiently achieved by violence, then you're intelligent if you're good at violence.'>Dunno what this means>Kidnap another smart guy>Wait for him to talk>Hope this mean I'm not dumb>He still trying to escape>Gotta eat him>Now me never know>mfw
>>97836027Who are you quoting?
>>97835723But the same midwit take will work for most TTRPGs unless you're playing with medical doctors and people with PhDs exclusivelyThe important thing is the appearance of realism instead of absolute realism, and for most people the baseline there is movie realism
>>97830485Critical thinking, something (you) lack.
>>97836846Says he's quoting >>97835146 right in that post
>>97830485Planning. A lot of the time, a "smart" character is just a character who took extra time to prepare. But an average person can achieve most of what a smart person can do just by spending extra time thinking something over and preparing accordingly. You can make a player of middling intelligence feel like fucking batman by implementing any sort of game mechanic that lets him make plausible retroactive preparations in response to things the player is only just learning about now. For example, if you're going through a cave, and only just learn now that there are trolls in the cave, then the GM might let you roll a Knowledge check at a high DC relating to trolls or caves to retroactively purchase a pack of alchemist's fire. This should be amazingly useful for all but the dumbest of players.
>>97840870Having played a couple of narrativist RPGs that do allow this to a limited extent, it's actually not all that useful.
>>97840870>>97841280Paradoxically, I find "retroactive action" mechanics to be a lot more useful in crunchier/simulationist systems (more importance on preparing properly) where these mechanics are also a lot less likely to exist.Meanwhile in less-crunchy/more-narrative games, if you didn't have many meaningful mechanics options in the first place, then being able to go back and change your choices isn't going to help much.
>>97841696Which system?
>>97846563GURPS has a trait in the Basic Set called Gizmos, which lets you bring along useful gear that you did not specify you had previously, but would be plausible for you to be carrying. For example, declaring that you have a holdout pistol in your pocket. Pyramid #3/53 then extends this trait to all sorts of situations with the Foresight trait, which lets you call friends in advance for assistance, set up traps in preparation for an ambush, perform weeks of research on a subject in advance to acquire in-depth dossiers, maps, psych evals, etc. The article also gives options to players to perform retroactive actions without Foresight by spending Impulse Points (think of these as Fate points or Luck points in other systems), using Divination spells or traits such as Precognition, or just simply rolling really well on a mundane skill (e.g., using Scrounging to pull any sort of random bullshit from your backpack, or Tactics to preemptively maneuver allied forces to counterattack an ambush that you as a player had no way of knowing about until now.)
>>97846640>GURPS
>>97830485>>perceptiveness>>knowledgeI have genuinely never seen these make a tangible difference on a campaign even once. People always shill for every variation of the Perception skill but it really doesn't make any difference.Crafting on the other hand depends on the game, but it does matter a lot when it works. Like in 3.PF it can set you insanely far ahead of the curve.
>>97846640>Tactics to preemptively maneuver allied forces to counterattack an ambushI need to read that because it would actually make Tactics useful
>>97830485Charisma, to keep other people on your side and doing your bidding.
>>97846887Perception useful because it is usually the skill used to detect traps or ambushes, and is thus a supplemental combat skill. You don't take perception to roleplay, but a failure to roleplay generally doesn't kill PCs or cause a bad narrative outcome like failing a combat does.As for the actual topic, I do have to agree that having a smart player piloting the character is the most important skillset. There's only so much that stats can do to overcome an idiot behind the wheel.
>>97848880Tactics in just the Basic Set is pretty lame. There are a few optional rules I use to make it more attractive:>Martial Arts has rules for mapped and abstract tactics. You roll a Quick Contest of Tactics with the enemy leader at the start of combat. Winning lets you choose where exactly on the battlefield you get to place your allies (if using a battlemap), or gives you a number of free rerolls your allies can use depending on your Margin of Success (if not using a battlemap).>Tactical Shooting has expanded rules for Ambushes, which lets you substitute Tactics for both Stealth and Perception for the sole purpose of determining Surprise at the start of combat.>Dungeon Fantasy lets you take a maneuver and roll Tactics to advise an ally, which gives him a +1 bonus to Attack and Defense rolls for the turn on a success, or +2 on a critical success. I spice this up by allowing you to advise multiple allies per turn at -1 to skill per ally after the first. So a squad leader with a decently high Tactics skill can give an effective +1 to rolls for his whole squad just by forgoing his own turns, which is not too shabby on a 3d6 bell curve.
>>97835144Ok. So give the Flash bet to Ben and make him the most dangerous fighter on Earth. But he doesn't, because Reed is useless.
>>97830906>>97830915>the smart player walks in with 5 int on his sheet
>>97835146No it isn't, that's stupid. >>97836027 demonstrates why.
>>97859598I’m smart and I do that
>>97835146You are not a smart man
>>97830485from my experience 'smart' characters tend to work best with a builds focused on utility. be the guy that remembers to bring torches, ropes and a long stick. also practice some puzzles you find on the back of cereal boxes.
>>97830485Knowledge. If your character is ignorant, then what's the point of him having a high INT stat?
>>97830485Having a high iq player.>buh buh I’m retarded and want to play a smartypantsProblem solving under time pressure. You have many minutes to deliberate over what your character should do in a few seconds.
>>97867027we're talking about skills here, retard
>>97867030Intelligence implies no skill other than being intelligent, retard.
>>97830485depends on setting. However, as people have said on here. Unless you have a SMART player or a GM or friend willing to help the dumb player playing a smart player. It's not going to really work out. Unless you just let them do whatever they want then praise them like a toddler who went potty on their own, since having a smart character means knowing what smart means.
>>97830485The ability to listen and pay attention.
>>97849816>or gives you a number of free rerolls your allies can use depending on your Margin of SuccessI would prefer this even on a battlemap
>>97835146Nononono. "Intelligence" Is about your ability to take in and accurately process information and then make goal oriented actions according to that information. That's why spies and the like are called INTELLIGENCE agencies. In practice this is accurately taking in a situation, understanding what's going on, and THEN making a decision that best reaches those goals, but the analysis comes first.So a "high intelligence" person would be>attentive to detail>have knowledge regarding said detail. He doesn't have to be an encyclopedia, but it helps.>Finally doing something that a person without the attention to detail and knowledge would have no means of doing.If you want to be smart, start asking yourself questions and get more and more complex as you understand things. Overthinking is ok here.
>>97870164>>attentive to detail>>have knowledge regarding said detail. He doesn't have to be an encyclopedia, but it helps.>>Finally doing something that a person without the attention to detail and knowledge would have no means of doing.Depends on the game, I guess. In a system that differentiates Intelligence from Perception, Academics, and Wits those are all compartmentalized to those other stats.
>>97830485Depends on the setting and what the party needs. A smart character in a party of idiots who does not gain anything by being there would just leave.
In my experience characters who obsess over wanting to be intelligent (specifically being perceived as a genius-level intellect) are all incredibly dim, narrow-minded, and incapable of expressing themselves in a manner that reveals a capacity to reflect and intuit outside their chosen field.
>>97866241neither of those anons, but Krog's goals weren't best fulfilled by violence. If he learned to read, or at least be able to negotiate with people instead of threatening and killing them, he'd have a better time learning new words which was his stated intention.
>>97870858>Be Doctor Jordan Cross>PhD in astrophysics, biochemical engineering, and cybernetics>Advisor to governments, winner of nobels, educator of professors, general swell guy>Want to learn how to speak Italian so I can get discounts by charming the barrista at my hotel during the Italian convention on cybernetic advancements>Pick up an Italian-to-English dictionary and memorise it, I only need one read for that>Tell a joke to barrista in Italian and ask if it's worth 10 eurocent>I don't get a discount, he says young people only like jokes about skibbidy toilet now>I R OF THE DUM
>>97846887I've never seen a lore/knowledge skill meaningfully affect a campaign either.
>>97830485In-universe knowledge is what I'd consider the most important role for a "smart" character. Being able to make shit often has dedicated crafting rules or can be done automatically with some class feature or magic or profession skill or whatever, and is more of a game balance thing for that specific game whether crafting is amazing (3.5e, Pathfinder 1e) of fucking useless (Pathfinder 2e) and even then crafting might not be considered an intelligence skill. Perceptiveness is usually governed by completely different attributes because otherwise you run into wolves being able to do calculus. I'm not saying I've never seen games where awareness or perception is governed by intelligence but it's extremely rare, it's almost always the equivalent of wisdom or is a dedicated awareness (like mutants and masterminds) or perception (like in vampire the masquerade) stat. The "absent minded professor" who's a brainiac genius but clumsy and lacking in awareness is a popular character archetype most systems want to make playable.
>>97873283>Perceptiveness is usually governed by completely different attributesBut it's still, ultimately, something people associate with intelligence. Fictional ace detectives are highly perceptive and are going to be considered smart even if they're not a walking encyclopedia or engineers.
>>97846563nta but there's a Pathfinder 1e feat that lets you retroactively buy shit and have it on your character by setting aside a pool of gold and it's extremely useful for the reasons that anon described. Because Pathfinder 1e is a very mechanics focused game and there's thousands of random items and pieces of adventuring gear with niche interactions, being able to have your Batman utility belt moment and pull out the exact "AHA! I PACKED BAT-SHARK REPELLENT KNOWING WE'D ENCOUNTER A POOL OF HUNGRY SHARKS!" lets you bypass a ton of annoying encounters with a silver bullet item that you'd never bother carrying around otherwise.https://www.aonprd.com/FeatDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Brilliant%20Planner You can even pay for mundane services ahead of time, like saying you chartered a boat or hired a horse and carriage as part of your getaway plan, or you knew the dragon's hoard would be too big to carry so there's a bunch of half-orc teamsters instantly showing up to haul it away. 50 gp per character level is dirt cheap in terms of wealth by level but it's a huge amount to spend on nonmagical adventuring gear and services, the average skilled laborer only earns like a few silver pieces a day,
>>97830915hehe me smart play smart build
>>97870858Understanding words was more of a hobby for Krog.
