I've noticed that significant percentages communities that form around pieces of tabletop media (wargames/TTRPGs) that aren't the most popular "faces" of their respective mediums tend to develop a bad hybridization of a hipster/superiority complex.>examples:Just about every wargaming community that is around what aren't the Warhammers. Nearly most TTRPGs that aren't DnD or Pathfinder. What really causes this sort of thing to happen so much among autists?What are the current biggest offending communities of this sort of thing?
>>97858782Why the fuck would they not feel superior? Even if you (wrongly) think they aren't better games, they've necessarily put some actual thought into what to play unlike most of those that just play the most popular game and never consider alternatives.
>>97858782You are being gatekept because you're a faggot. Gatekeeping is always a moral good.
>>97858796Your premise, then, is the less popular something is, the more morally superior its playerbase for not choosing the more popular alternatives?>>97858799>>97858816Bot responses? These don't seem to have anything to do with what OP posted.
>>97858796Has there been a noticeable uptick in Warhammer and/or DnD threads/anons speaking ill of the alternatives that I've missed before making this thread making this all a matter of bad timing?Your post is proving my point of a prevalent amount of hipster/superiority complexes that seem to develop among TTRPG media consumers when they get into the alternatives. It isn't a good look for the alternatives.>inb4 Warhammer/DND autismThe thing that gives both communities leeway in this is the size of their followings which means that if one community "branch" is bad to be around then there are tons of other "branches" on the tree to jump to.With communities with smaller numbers there are less "branches" to jump to on those trees. This is usually the thing with alterantive wargames/alternative TTRPGs.I understand that the alternatives have more financial incentive to put out a better product.That doesn't mean those alternative products are exempt from criticism and/or judgement on the quality of those products.>>97858816>gatekeptI've never had an incident where people of a different wargame/ttrpg wanted me to go away. If anything they are always aggressively looking for newcomers. Sometimes in an obnoxious way like the OP pic.>>97858824>Bot responses. Probably. I hope they are. Maybe this is just angry hour on this blight-site at the moment. I don't want to assume the worst.What I'm hoping for is answers based on my observations how this mentality develops and maybe a reasonable way of dealing with and/or working around.I should have added that perhaps the negative mentality does spring up from reasonable grounds.
>>97858871Define "speaking ill". Mainstreamers treat other systems with more of a casual disregard than any active hostility. Light ribbing at their expense is the most thought given to them.Hard to not feel superior when you finally crawl out of the shit, spray yourself down, and look back at the unwashed masses who by their own laziness are still choosing to wallow in the filth
>>97858824No. I can't understand how you could take it that way unless you'd already decided that was the response you were likely to get and just glossed over the actual words.The person that simply accepts whatever product is marketed at them is inferior to the person that does not.>>97858871>It isn't a good look for the alternatives.It isn't good to be superior?>That doesn't mean those alternative products are exempt from criticism and/or judgementNor does it mean they will get you a girlfriend or make you live forever. But what's the point in rebutting things no one says?
>>97858895>Define "speaking ill.">Mainstreamers treat other systems with more of a casual disregard than any active hostilityThe second line somewhat.The casual disregard is what I mean more often than not at least here done in a textually communicated manner.The biggest talking point I see is often referring to the alternatives as a "graveyard" of sorts or "dead games" and sticking with the big boys of their mediums because of a higher chance of getting games going. I'm not saying that games are impossible to have with the alternatives at all. It is just bigger number mean bigger chance of games which supports and feeds on itself in a cycle.>>97858897>It isn't good to be superior?It isn't good to be a piece of proof of superiority complexes being prevalent in alternatives to the big boys of their tabletop mediums.>Nor does it mean they will get you a girlfriendI don't know what you're trying to communicate with that or how it is related, but it isn't saying what you want to be said there.>But what's the point in rebutting things no one says? To show that one's observations of certain communities might be wrong instead of proving them to be correct at best and a bigger problem then they are at worst? You seem frustrated with this passive aggressive way of communicating. Is this a common topic brought up constantly? I don't want to conclude that you're being a troll or a Warhammer fan larping to make those who enjoy alternative wargames/TTRPGs look bad.
>>97858824You’re retarded. The premise that most popular == best is false, and your argument is that the opposite of that is also false
>>97858949>I don't know what you're trying to communicateAre you retarded?No one says niche games are or ought to be exempt from criticism. "Rebutting" that is therefore not only pointless but idiotic.Why the fuck would you play a game if even the people that did play it didn't think it was better than the mainstream alternative? It'd be pretty damning if they didn't feel superior.
>>97859004>Are you retarded?Nah just under the impression that the girlfriend analogy was incel projection because of how out of left field it came from. >No one says niche games are or ought to be exempt from criticismThe actions and responses to the concept are saying that even if the words aren't specifically doing so.>Why the fuck would you play a game if even the people that did play it didn't think it was better than the mainstream alternative?To try it out to see if it is genuinely bad or actually a diamond or to just try something new. The trying something new part is why I was fine giving Cyberpunk 2020 a go and enjoyed it quite nicely rather than saying "let's just use homebrew DND" or something similar.>It'd be pretty damning if they didn't feel superior.It is natural for people to feel good about enjoying a superior product.That still doesn't really seem to explain why superiority complexes develop quickly in niche game communities. Superiority complexes breed toxicity and then reflect badly on the community.
>>97859033>The actions and responses to the concept are saying thatBullshit. At best that's putting words in someone's mouth.>It is natural for people to feel good about enjoying a superior product.>That still doesn't really seem to explain why superiority complexes develop quickly in niche game communities. I do not understand the distinction.>Superiority complexes breed toxicityI fundamentally don't agree. In the context of non-40k wargames a sense of superiority is not only fairly well justified by how poor 40k is, but psychologically necessary to have a community at all rather than just giving it up and playing 40k.
>>97859073>At best that's putting words in someone's mouth.Fair enough actually. It still doesn't mean that communications can't be conveyed when one is trying to set the "vibes" to be a certain thing. If I were a door to door salesman I wouldn't want to give off a crackhead kind of vibe. If that helps illustrate what I mean.>I do not understand the distinction.When I talk about superiority complexes I mean a kind of toxicity of believing that one is better than others that can genuinely drive away new potential members. In the case of wargaming I'll explain the pattern:>find out new wargame with sizable wargaming community that isn't the warhammers>wargaming community is toxic in a "stick up ass" way in believing they are better for liking a different product>move back to the warhammers to not deal with toxicityThat last part is because the warhammer community is so big that there are plenty of branches to move to on the warhammer tree. With alternative wargames and TTRPGs the tree does not have many branches to move to so might as well find a better tree.>In the context of non-40k wargames a sense of superiority is not only fairly well justified by how poor 40k isIt doesn't justify the toxic baggage that superiority complexes come with to be honest. Many times at the LGS alternative wargame autists try to get non-warhammer games playing and a big reason why (not all) some of them fall out is because of toxicity and constant unprompted shitting on 40k. It could just be an issue of autism but I think it is a bit more complicated than that. >but psychologically necessary to have a community at all rather than just giving it up and playing 40k.The toxicity superiority complexes have drives newcomers to give up and return to the warhammer games. It really is part (not as big as smaller companies dropping the ball hard like Privateer Press did with WarmaHordes) of why GW stays on top.
>>97859121I've never had the impression that /awg/ thinks non-40k games are above criticism. Maybe, "If you're still playing 40k then I don't think you're worth listening to.">constant unprompted shitting on 40kI've certainly seen this though. Arguably it's not quite "unprompted" as 40k is so prevalent that /awg/ lives in its shadow, but it's still daft and annoying.Otherwise I think "toxicity" is doing all the work in making your description negative while being too vague to tell me anything.
>>97858782>superiorityanyone who has tried games other than the mainstream (even if they came back to the mainstream games afterwards) is, objectively, superior to the people who do nothing but play mainstream games, who simply do not have the knowledge needed to be able to understand the conversation about those games in the first place.
>>97859212>I've never had the impression that /awg/ thinks non-40k games are above criticism.A good number of fights have broken out over it there. I can't be arsed to go digging in any archive though.>Otherwise I think "toxicity" is doing all the work in making your description negative while being too vague to tell me anything.Toxicity these days is not limited to physically harmful material. The word is now used to describe negative social related things. I assume for less vocal cord effort or it is just slang that organically or inorganically evolved beyond slang usage.I just don't why you think I'm being vague.This whole thread is about superiority complexes developing in communities of alternative tabletop stuff and so far I haven't seen anything here that says what I have been seeing is incorrect.Maybe it is all autism at the end of the day, but it is counterproductive to the longevity of tabletop thing that isn't 40k and/or DND. Because outsiders will look, see superiority complexes, not want to deal with that bullshit and look elsewhere or go back to the big shots of the tabletop medium.
>>97859241>I just don't why you think I'm being vague.Because nothing you've said is specific. Complaining about "toxicity" doesn't tell me what anyone was doing, only that you didn't approve of it. That's what "vague" means.
>>97858782If TTRPGs weren't just "edit to taste" and were about actual structural quality, there might be some merit to grandstanding; but as they are, it's just comparing one subjective experience to another, and flinging shit at each other over it.The only sense of superiority one should feel in the TTRPG circle is from spending the least possible amount of money, given that you're expected to come up with the rules yourself if something you desire isn't in a TTRPG product.I don't know anything about war games, but I assume those can be analyzed in terms of their objective quality, given they can be ruled in official tournaments. A player of a well-designed war game would certainly have precedence to claim superiority, given their participation in a game of superior quality.Still, it's really stupid, and a waste of time. Why brag about what you play, when you can just play?
>>97858782>I've noticed that significant percentages communities that form around pieces of tabletop media (wargames/TTRPGs) that are the most popular "faces" of their respective mediums tend to develop a bad hybridization of a hipster/superiority complex.>examples >the Warhammers >DnD >What really causes this sort of thing to happen so much among autists? >What are the current biggest buzzwords around this sort of thing? Its some mix of contrarianism, Oppositional Defiance Disorder and shitposting. You've missed that whatever shallow red vs blue thing you're stuck on is just the same thing you're complaining about from the other side
>>97859628Do you mean specific as in examples?I've tried to be neutral but I guess that came off as vague. I really hope you're not trolling through pretending to be dumb. It would be a bad look for both of us. Two big examples of the superiority complex comes from the Trench Crusade collective. And WarmaHordes back when in it's heyday before pic related happened.Their biggest things were taking pride in being niche, ignoring the mistakes of their companies (whether they were real or not in retrospect doesn't matter to be honest) until it could no longer be ignored in WM's specific case.And generally ignoring any possible flaws in their games or waving the flaws away as a smaller deal than they were.I don't know what flaws are in the Trench Crusade game. But no game is perfect as there is always room for improvement so there's probably some flaws.In WarmaHordes there were "game legal" ways to stomp players worse than 40k's turn two tabling. In WarmaHordes' case the community's superiority complex was off the charts to laughable degrees that things like the OP pic were made. But to be fair I think the OP pic is more making fun of those who worked for free for the "Privateer Press Gang" projects.Cheaper prices is a given for practically all competitors of 40k. But most WarmaHordes players even at the LGS almost always took it too far.
>>97859903>Shrek's cringe compilationThat takes me back so many years man. I miss those. >contrarianism>ODD>ShitpostingThat's pretty good and simple to understand after a few web searches.>You've missed that whatever shallow red vs blue thing you're stuck on is just the same thing you're complaining about from the other sideI know Warhammer fans and especially shitposters speak badly on alternative games. Haven't seen much from DnD or pathfinder, but I'd imagine that's there too. Maybe next time I make this thread again I'll acknowledge that Warhammer players do this sort of thing too. I'm just curious as to how contrarianism develops so much in the alternative games part of the tabletop space. The only other medium I know of where this kind of contrarianism develops is Linux users vs Windows/MAC. I don't know any others.
>>97859241>I just don't why you think I'm being vague.Because you aren't saying anything but taking up a lot of space to do so. >>97859907Oh you're talking about fanboys being retarded. All things have that once they get past a certain amount of users. The fanboys form identity around the product, so any criticism of the product is a criticism of them and are ill equipped to deal with that. Most western males are poorly equipped to deal with criticism. Its not game specific.
>>97859930>The only other medium I know of where this kind of contrarianism develops is Linux users vs Windows/MAC. I don't know any others.Music scenes man. They're almost entirely based on this or BIG SPECTACLE. Lots of folks really like it when the thing they like and thus themselves, are special and different. It sells well to idiots. Idiots are vocal so they leave the most impression. That being said, there is, although it feels less and less so over time, a playfulness to the bantz, jibes and shitposting. Its just easy to get worked up about if you take things too seriously. I find silly pictures help sometimes.
>>97859956>Because you aren't saying anything but taking up a lot of space to do so.I don't know how I'm doing that. I really don't. Thought my stuff was coherent. I don't mind being spoonfed solutions and examples and a recreation of my style so I can learn to be better at this sort post making.>>97859975That's actually good.Had a "why didn't I think of that" moment when reading your stuff after you mentioned the music scene. Reminds me of the born in the wrong generation meme phrase about people liking older music before their generation(s).So with that said what is the term for this kind of mentality if a specific one exists for this sort of thing of idiots making something arbitrary in the grand scheme a piece of their identity and thus reacting as if a critique (even if a deserved one) is a physical attack on them?
>>97859907>I've tried to be neutralCalling people or their behaviour "toxic" isn't remotely neutral.>WarmaHordesNever cared for it, but I gather the focus was always on competitive play, so it's no surprise that extends to meta-competition over playing the "best" game and related shitposting. And finding wombo combos is a feature for some people.>ignoring the mistakes of their companiesAs if GWfags and WotCfags aren't? Most /tg/ companies are either miniscule or known to be some flavour of shitty. For a lot of people it's easier to pretend that isn't real than admit they like a product made by assholes.I think I've over-edited this so it might not be very readable. Basically it's understandable: many people have a chip on their shoulder over 40k's popularity compared to "their" game, and being poorly socialised nerds express that in obnoxious ways.
>>97858782The problem with hipsters is they detest popular things.
>>97858949Idk, I don't hang around with many 5ers so can't comment on their discussion. I would hazard a guess that any ill-speaking is actually recessing, in fact, based on d&d's waning popularity. It might still be the go-to, but getting a game is less of a sure bet than it was five years ago.
>>97860021Its okay dude. We figured it out. Didn't mean to be so hostile. Its easy to get caught up in decontextualized text posting. Thanks for clarifying. I tend to refer to it as fanboyism or fanboys but its likely an antiquated term. There might be a more contemporary psychobable term for it, I'm under the impression >autism is close enough given how broad its become.
>>97858782
>>97858782>Another never-game thread about Platonic ideas of made-up situations
>>97861988>>97866385I think OP has a valid point.Yeah Warhammer fanboys can be quite arrogant, but there's also the crowds of games that aren't warhammer too. It can be off putting to newcomers.
>>97861039Liking things for their popularity is just as stupid as disliking them for their popularity.We have over 130,000 words in the English language, it isn't that hard to articulate why you like or dislike something, and it certainly isn't hard to describe observable faults with a thing.A huge problem these days is people tend to embrace positivity, even to a fault, while they'll dismiss any criticism, legitimate or no, as "hate".
>Anons incessantly bitch and kvetch about people who get into systems like DND and Pathfinder and then try to turn them into games the system isnt designed for>Individuals develop settings and systems more tailored and fitting to these alternative tastes>Cultivate a fanbase of those who were looking for this sort of framework and gameplay style>Fanbase tries to celebrate and expose others to these ideas, (rightfully) feeling that many arent aware of these alternative games and systems because of the long standing popularity of more mainstream games>OP; "YOURE ALL JUST SMUG HIPSTERS REEEEEEEE"I really well and genuinely hope you kill yourself OP. It saddens me to know of all the sperm in your dads nuts, you were the one to win the race.
>>97861039>Popular = goodMcDonalds must be the pinnacle of cuisine, by your logic.
>>97870058OP hereI don't think that was a very good deconstruction of what I was getting at.To me it is about why those who enjoy alternatives in the tabletop medium that aren't the most popular ones develop superiority/hipster complexes. It may all just be autism and nothing more or less. The superiority/hipster complexes are not a good look for any medium's community even if they are inevitable. They can be off-putting and stifle community growth and turn away potential newcomers which can harm the longevity of something in the long run.There's nothing wrong with enjoying the most popular thing or enjoying something that isn't the most popular thing. Being insufferable through arrogance from it is what can make it a problem and lead to more problems. Your post only validates the observations I have been seeing about the superiority and hipster complex impressions I've witnessed when visiting discussions about alternative wargames/ttrpgs here and elsewhere across the internet.It probably isn't the only one in this thread too if I'm being honest.
>>97870099>anyone disagreeing with me just proves I'm rightYou still haven't done much to even describe the behaviour, never mind that it's common.
>>97870185>anyone disagreeing with me just proves I'm rightNot everyone.Just some. I haven't described much because I tried to be as neutral as possible.But through doing that I ended up as someone said being vague. I think >>97859903 said it best in the spoiler post. >>97859975 too is on to something with the mention of music scenes. It was never my intent to come across as rude and condescending as the people I accuse of being condescending. I should have written in the OP that Warhammer players also have the same problems but for different reasons like being a part of the most popular thing therefore feeling correct.
>>97870099As the other guy said, youre just making up people and relegating all criticisms against your super narrow world view as "bad faith" or whatever other stupid buzzword you can pick to discredit the opposition. Your choice is clearly calling everyone who disagrees a "hipster."Now I will concede and agree that anyone who hates on The Popular Thing Because Its Popular is an obnoxious faggot, but these people are few and far between and at best a silent minority you are blowing out of proportion.
>>97870504>youre just making up people and relegating all criticisms against your super narrow world view as "bad faith" or whatever other stupid buzzword you can pick to discredit the oppositionI know some might just be trolls. But I get what you're saying. Part of it is my fault in not saying that Warhammer fans don't have a superiority complex. I should have covered that in the OP. I might cover it next time I bring this up at a later date if I decide to. That's a big if. >Now I will concede and agree that anyone who hates on The Popular Thing Because Its Popular is an obnoxious faggot>but these people are few and far between and at best a silent minority you are blowing out of proportion.I think I am now that you mention it. Usually the vocal minority of any collective of people tend to be loud to seem like the majority. In your opinion, what causes some autists to develop the complexes I have talked about whether it is for a popular thing or unpopular thing?
>Gen Xer douchebag beardThis is a painfully 2000s image.
