They're often treated the same way as if they were one thing, but they should not be. Magic is the bending of reality contrary to the law of physics, even in its own universe, while psionics is bending the material and spiritual world with the power of your mind. Unfortunately, game designers and writers lack nuance and creativity, leading to magic and psionics being interchangeable terms, i.e., Star Wars. But what do you think, /tg/? Should they be different or just different ways to use the powers in the setting they're in?
>>97862647I think they should both be a kind of "magic", but in such a way that psionics can only be countered by psionics and same for magic.Specifically magical effects can be hit with things such as "Dispel Magic" or whatever, but for psionics you'd need a different psionic caster with "Dispel/Counter Psionics". Something like that, anyway.
>>97862647Anima beyond fantasy makes them different.
>>97862647The thing is (possibly unfortunately so) is that neither magic nor psionics exist.This makes them fantasy concepts.And as fantasy concepts, it is up to the creator of a work of fantasy to establish their function(s), if any; this is moreso important to a game.A creator can make one usable and the other inaccessible, or vice versa. A creator can make both inaccessible or completely accessible. A creator can make them both the same, or make one be anathema to the other.I personally enjoy the anathema approach, because that's one thing to further enforce the fact that they're different powers in my works; I like to have my different powers be represented by the fact they function differently, after all.But in fantasy, the only "should" is that you should make things suitable to your preferences. That's what fantasy is about, making what you want. In a genre predicated on creative freedom, why would there be only one correct way to do things, an obligation to do things only that one way?
>>97862647They have strong overlap as concepts without either adding much that isn't touched on by the other. In any particular case, they seem more like an aesthetic for supernatural abilities, rather than a solid framework to base things on. Like even super-science sci-fi bullshit usually has gadgets/serums/weird physics that can be retooled or directly fucked with physically, but magic and psionics both generally sit as 'inviolable unless you play by our rules' box.If you want to make them distinct, they have to have very clearly different outcomes and ways of achieving a result, and that difference has to be clearly visible to an outside observer. The simple solution is very different mechanics for how those powers operate (like how >>97862764 brings up with the Anima example), but personally I would like something more, like specific sorts of abilities being unique to one specialization or another.
>>97862647The idea of psionics and magic being separate things never made sense to me. Things like telepathy, telekinesis, and other shit has always been mentioned as powers various wizards and divine beings in various forms of mythology.If you want them to be different for whatever work you have that's all well and good but no sense in some spurg having a prolapse trying to force the idea of them having to be separate.
They differ only in aesthetics.But that's of course the only difference that matters.
>>97862988But they should really be different in power as well.
I think it's not really magic itself that overlaps too much with psionics, it's the idea of what D&D calls sorcery. If all the magic is "external" to the caster, setting up special preparations to either call on some entity or activate some kind of dormant "cheat code" of the universe that technically anyone could do if they knew how (but learning how might be the biggest hurdle), then that can be different from activating some effect because you yourself have a special ability to do that. But sorcery or intrinsic magic that you can just do because you are special is very similar to psionics, so then you have to start making weirdo distinctions on why something is one and not the other.
>>97862647I feel like having both in a setting is just clutter. Giving Lovecraftian horrors mind powers that defy explanation by the setting's magic system is one thing, those beings are meant to be unknowable, but it's another to give the option to players.
>>97862647>Magic is the bending of reality contrary to the law of physics, even in its own universe, while psionics is bending the material and spiritual world with the power of your mind.Anon, that's a retarded distinction. You just said the same thing but with different words, with the singular difference being that you stipulated mind for psionics (which a lot of magic is done through anyways)
>>97862647This argument is usually made by the "All the other classes use magic in various flavours, I want my magic to be special and unique!" with a side dose of "And you can't use your magic to detect or stop me using mine! Hahahaha!" and that's shit for game balance.Psionic supremacists are as bad as Gish supremacists.Nothing wrong with liking either, but keep your shit balanced.
>>97863547Bro, I'll take psonics being limited on what effects it can do, but being able to do those limited effects fucking well and more.
Psionics has its origins in 20th century ESP research, theories, and pseudo-science It should be treated the same as UFO's and FTL travel and the like. It shouldn't be put in a fantasy setting in the first place.
>>97862647"Psionics" is just a sciency sounding name for magic used by people that wanted to research them without looking obviously stupid.If you want distinct sets of magical powers you have to make your own boundaries.
It's literally just a kind of magic. A flavor of it.One that is sometimes associated with sci-fi and horror, but then again so is occult magic stuff too.It's dumb to pretend psionics are fundamental different from other forms of magic.It's not.
>>97863603I'm not on the up and up with current scientific progress; is there a theory that proves plausibility of psionic powers, and could you link a credible source citing plausibility?
>>97864788There is nothing wrong with establishing magic and psionics as different powers if the maker of a game wishes to do so, especially if they take the effort to have them fill different niches and function differently.
>magic Slower, requires preparation and education to use but can do a much wider range of things.>psionics Faster, requires little preparation, no education and can do specific things exceedingly well.
>>97862647
>>97862768>>97862779>>97862964This board is for shitposting. Refrain from earnest discussion, please.
>>97865385No.
>>97865533Yes.
>>97865385Hmmm, I like this idea, though it runs the risk of magic just overpowering psionics easily with prep.
>>97865385>>magic>Slower, requires preparation and education to use but can do a much wider range of thingsSo, a Wizard?>>psionics>Faster, requires little preparation, no education and can do specific things exceedingly well.So, a Sorcerer?
>>97862647I like how GURPS does it.Magical spells are skills with rigid effects that you learn in preset prerequisite trees. They cost energy to cast, and this cost goes up the more power you need, and goes down as you become more skilled. The effectiveness of magic is also affected by local mana levels.Psionic powers are customizable traits that you learn in no particular order and have flexible effects that you improvise on the fly. It doesn't cost energy by default, but pumping in energy can give extra effect or let you improvise new effects. Generally, powers are more expensive XP-wise, but have fewer restrictions and are a lot more flexible.However, that's just the default. You can easily tweak things so that spells work like powers. That's called Sorcery.
>>97863603Fantastical concepts definitely belong in fantasy, and nowhere else.
