Just move on man. It’s just toys, grow up. Stop chasing your false dream.

>>97866150
Ignore this guy.
Cannibalize, refit, play, test, and eventually, rewrite and rebrand.

>>97866150
>STOP PLAYING GAMES
Weird take to bring to /tg/.

>>97866133
Has the 3.5 battle bible project died?

These are the ones i know of
Pepsi hammer
>3-6th best of with custom tailored codecies
Pro hammer
>3-6 best of (rulebook only), play with your favorite codecies.
AA Hammer
>Go to alternating activation. Has codecies.
Custom 40k
>a different alternating activation with a touch of the 'tism.
40k reforged
>tourney trash
Long war project
huge unit conversion from modern into HH2.0?

>>97866419
It did, I was the only one posting and when I stopped the threads died. It was a sad case of "who will help me bake this pie".

>>97866419
It finish transcribing the codex of third into an easy to read and print pdf.
The issue is the guys working on it have .txt levels of knowledge regarding editors so it got stuck

>makes a thread about alternative 40k rulesets
>does not include THE alternative 40k ruleset
Bait thread, you should have stayed in /awg/

>>97866610
I know you're playin me, but I still want to know.

>>97866572
It was also just an attitude of complete unwillingness to learn anything new. The amount of posters who would poke in and say "I love what you doing Id love to help oh but I can barely use a keyboard lmao I could never possibly contribute" was disheartening to say the least.

>>97866631
I did some spell checking and try to help, but god damn a bunch of faggots just went there to be assholes.
Like some how if that project actually worked 10th would die or something. It was insane to watch the amount of schizo posting in favor of modern 40k. I do not recall seeing it in grog or anywhere else.

>>97866631
>>97866651
I assume the 4ed core rules were never fully transcribed?

>>97866682
The BRB was finished (as far as I know) but not a single codex got finished. The project stopped with all the codecies transcribed into super barebones word documents that looked like butt. It never crossed the point where someone would choose to use them over just a pdf scan of the original book.
>>97866651
Yeh a few grifters were very negative, but the passivity and apathy was worse imo.

>>97866150
You realize what board you are on, correct?

>>97866709
Do you happen to have the BRB file?

>>97866749
Best I can offer, looks like the mega is still up.
https://archive.4plebs.org/tg/thread/97278656/#97278656

>>97866419
the idiots didn't know about battlescribe or battlescribe files and were weirdly locked in on transcribing codeces when a majority of that work was already done. so much time, energy, and momentum wasted.

>>97867039
We knew about faggotscribe and faggotscribe files, we just aren't faggots who like peen in the bum. Actual wargamers reference documents and construct their lists on A4 paper with pencils.

And eh >>97866419 yes and no. It's not been updated in a while but the work that was done is still done and the discord occasionally shows signs of life.

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>>97868074
then youd know that all the rules are already transcribed. you couldve vibecoded an xml2pdf formatter with it if that's your goal.

your obsession with homosexuals and genitalia has been noted

>>97868391
>an xml2pdf formatter
so you know nothing about battlescribe format AND pdf authoring? shamefur display. and i'm not even a grog, came here to laugh at grogs who are so out of touch they don't even know what rulesets people actually play.

>>97868391
>>97868737
Alright lets cool the shit flinging, I only get to enjoy one of these 40k homebrew threads like once a quarter.

>xml to pdf
In theory that could have been done, sure, but the barrier to entry was already really high. Peoples ability was limited to what they could do with notepad. I also think we looked and there wasnt a battlescribe 4th ed (only 3rd ed). We had an anon in the thread who was working on a 4th ed one, but somehow it got corrupted and I dont know where he went from there.

>>97866728
board of no games?

>>97868748
The xml to pdf is not complicated but very tedious and may not work very well. I’ve been looking into the battlescribe internals since the developer came back from the dead (only to disappear again) and they are quite complicated and the data is usually encoded in a way that is not very conducive to creating a human readable pdf. So nothing too complicated about the tech itself (xml and pdf) but the data itself may be. Definitely something I don’t expect the average anon to be able to handle.

> t. professional software engineer

>>97869091
Ive thought about what it would take to do something similar. Essentially what we are talking about is parameterizing everything, then using a template to format it. I havn't done it myself (for my own homebrew) because honestly I spend to much hobby time on it and not building minis as it is. I know latex, so the way I think of the problem is "how do I get from a database to latex?" The way I would go about it is write a python layer to generate latex code to typeset. But there are so many exceptions, even down to simple shit like list formatting for available upgrade options.

>>97866133
Which alt ruleset gives marines 2 wounds?

I don't like a lot of modern 40k, but one thing I do like is marines feeling actually durable, and for marine armies to be smaller and elite.

>>97869949
You’re the reason 40k went to shit

>>97869954
Taking bait when it's obvious is a form of kindness I suppose. You should be less kind.

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>>97866133
10/10 thread

>>97869962
It's not bait. I stand by it.

>>97869954
Tell me how cunt.

>>97869949
"custom 40k" and "alternate 40k Rules" do

>>97866133
Jesus christ just play a different fucking game at this point.

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>>97870100
>just go play some random literally who garbage instead of the best setting ever created with dozens of cool and distinct factions
No

>>97869949
Marines never needed 2 wounds.

https://github.com/Kothra/Warhammer-40-000-4th-Edition-for-NewRecruit

>>97869949
They don't need 2 wounds when damage isn't bloated to fuck.

>>97869091
>>97869303
Not that i'm too invested in the subject, was just lurking, but an XML parser can't be that hard to do surely?
It's not like it has to be a generic one-size-fits-all, just do all the hacks necessary to deal with the battlescribe format.

That said I would never use Latex, it's horrendous for large formatting imo. I've used it for uni work and wanted to shoot myself once it started going past 15 pages and had to do special formatting and wait for it to render. Typst is a fairly nice alternative.
Though I suspect if it's going to mainly be used by non-techie users then you might want to stick to something like Affinity Publisher or Indesign.

Haha oh boy here we go again, tire fire that the fourk was didn't teach you anything huh

>>97869949
Space marines didnt need 2 wounds because 2 wounds only makes them move durrable to small arms fire, which they didnt need. A unit of guardsman kills like 1 space marine in a round of shooting, that is a fair amount of points. Space marines were too vulnerable to anti tank weapons because 40k has no meaningful way of distinguishing a las cannon from a sniper rifle. AP2 pie plate that ID wouldnt care about an extra wound.

why are none of these based on second edition? I want something that leans into unique mechanics either like second edition cards or like command points ( but better )

>>97870563
I think when it came down to it, making a formatted unit entry requires you to type out exactly how you want the thing to look. So whether or not you are specifying where a bunch of data pulls get placed, or just typing out the words, its kinda a wash in the amount of effort. The one thing I wish I had a data structure for is pretty much just the summary table at the back because I have to type all the weapons again manually. Its a cool idea I just never got around to it. For a homebrew project I also would need a better way of interacting with the database, I was playing around with that too. The real trick would be working out a good way to making lists, like, does the option replace one of your exiting items, can you take only one from the list, are things mutually exclusive. That would be the first step to working it out I think.

>typst vs latex
I have heard of typst but its still in infancy, you just cant do what latex can do. Latex has decades of libraries and problem solving for it for weird niche things. But also I just dont know it, so I use latex. I was well into my now decade long homebrew project by the time typst came out, I have custom classes and templates for latex.
>afpub
I think they had a means of using a json to feed templates, but the anon who was in charge of the BRB wasnt interested in it.

>>97866150
0/10.

>>97870655
2nd edition has a battle bible already, google it you will find it.

>>97870571
You can't kill the idea when it's what the people want. Just because execution on it failed previously means nothing. Everything great went through many failures before the successful breakout.

>>97870571
To be fair the time to present the idea was pretty good as people wanted to move away from GW as much as possible while still enjoying 40k due to the femstodes drama.
The time to advertise the idea was good and it was a reasonable gamble to take.
Obviously the gamble failed.

>>97871024
And it didn't even fail as badly as people claim it did. Most of the "oh my god looool fourk was such a dumpster fire!" posts are revisionist trolling from the same guys who were trying to sabotage it and make it fail from the beginning. All that happened was the main contributors slowly lost steam and stopped showing up and it died from lack of momentum.

>>97866447
Where can I find Pepsihammer?

>>97870601
Plasma cannons would care.

>>97866133
Looked at "The Long War Project" because of you OP, you have my heartfelt thanks.

>>97871252
Here anon
https://mega.nz/folder/2YdghLzL#w0KOILlS1lrM1AeE4jcG-Q

>>97872081
Sure, but I also think a plasma cannon should 1 shot a space marine. Its a plasma cannon. Im sure there are exceptions and quirks, but le'ts not forget it took GW literally 3 finish bandaid patching making space marines 2 wounds. They chased their own tail for like 8 years over that one.

>>97869303
I was going to answer you and then got distracted with something else. The key problem in my opinion with battlescribe is that the format allows for some funky stuff. You can do real time modifications of unit entries as the user edits their roster (hiding or showing options, changing selection limits, etc) which means that in some cases what you see in the data files is too abstract. A good example I’m familiar with are the 30k files. For instance, the entry for a plain old Tactical Squad has all the options available to all the legions in one shared entry. Then the legion specific options are enabled on the fly based on what legion you created your roster with.
Long story short, a bsdata2pdf pipeline could be feasible if the source files do not abuse those shenanigans. The file format itself is not that hard and is somewhat documented thanks to some people in the community (i.e. https://github.com/BSData/schemas but is not up to date with New Recruit’s specific features). The difficulty lays on making sense of that data to fill out the LaTeX (or whatever) template for generating the human readable pdf.

cc
>>97870563
>>97870658

>>97866150
But those false dreams were fun! I want to recapture those fun times, just a few times more before I die.

>>97866447
>40k reforged
No fucking way I'm joining D*scord to have access to rules.

>>97872159
NTA but my God does it look nice and comfy for the eyes. Most of the fanmade rulebooks are such a sore to read.

>TG has a hombrew 40K rules thread again
Neat! Hope this lasts, here is a link to AA 40k https://mega.nz/folder/EqRzATpY#veXSXgaGG23c462K4ppDJg which was mentioned earlier, I really like playing it with my friend, the games are reasonably fast (Even if he spams orbital strikes in all of his lists) and the Tyranid codex has rules for the Malefactor that I just printed so it gets extra points

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Hey, convenient. This is the anon behind AA40K, I just finished and uploaded the release version of the Dark Eldar codex. You can find the link in the post directly above this one.
I burnt myself out for a bit hyperlinking the main rulebook. That will probably be what I finish next. I had to step away for a while, but getting this codex done was a nice palette cleanser after jumping back in. After that I'll be working on Grey Knights/Deathwatch and Necrons.

>>97874169
Glad to hear you're having fun with it! Any preferences on what I can work on next that would be helpful for your group? Also, if you have any commentary or issues with the system I'd be interested in hearing about it.

>>97874787
>Any preferences on what I can work on next that would be helpful for your group
A points cost calculator would be nice (If it's not too great of a task). We homebrew units quite often because my friend is a marine piggy who refuses to even consider a normal dreadnought so I had to whip up rules for the fuck huge nu dreads and gravis armor and I got him into the hobby by splitting the leviathan box with him so I had to figure out how to run a unit of 10 flamers without using the flame template 10 times. And I also have an admech army I'm trying to write a codex for so some reference on points costs would be nice

>>97874787
Anon I beg you, edit the art by adding blurred edges or any kind of simple frames. You did such a great job but the visual aspect is a bit lacking and even such a small change would make those books look so much better.
Btw is GW not targeting you for use of their art?

>>97874787
sweet!

I guess AA stands for alternating activations?
Except for that, could you tell me some key differences of your ruleset in comparison to the official rules?

And since we are at it: can someone give a little bit of insight on what Pepsihammer does different?

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>>97874843
I'll be completely honest. I'm very much a vibes based points-coster. I'm sure whatever you come up with will be fine, just play games with it and adjust as needed. I tried coming up with one when I was writing the first couple of books, but there are so many weird rules/weapons and factions with varying playstyles that I couldn't come up with anything I was satisfied with.
What I do is use certain units as baseline reference points and then adjust based on the faction. The 18 pt tactical marine and the 6 pt guardsman are two, the ork trukk, leman russ and land raiders are vehicles that I look at, etc. You can also take a look at the Tau Auxiliary unit for an idea of my process, just be aware that they are purposefully overcosted because they exist to paper over gaps a player wants to cover in their army.

>>97874894
I'll look into it and see what I can do. Here's a quick sample you can compare to page 5 of the main rulebook. Is something like that enough or do you have any suggestions?
>Btw is GW not targeting you for use of their art?
If they don't like it they can blame google for hosting it.

>>97874900
>I guess AA stands for alternating activations?
Correct.

>Except for that, could you tell me some key differences of your ruleset in comparison to the official rules?
I really wanted to make decision making an important part of the game during play. I hated seeing those games where the only thing the players did was take their two overcrowded battlelines and smash them together in the middle of the table. I tried to include lots of little things that emphasize this, such as the cover system affecting to hit rolls and improving armor instead of giving a distinct cover save, or reintroducing overwatch as an actual out of turn action instead of shooting when you get charged.
I'd recommend checking out the battle report in the rules file. It should broadly still be accurate to everything on a rules basis, but I should probably make a new one soon. You can also check out the starter rules for quick rundown of how a game would be set up and what tactics can be used.

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>>97875050
Nice, this is already enough to make the art looks like... well... art. I was always a big fan of those themed fancy edges applied to art in 7e codexes.

>>97874085
Pepsi here. Thanks anon I worked really hard on it.

>>97874787
Good to see you’re still around AAAnon.

>>97874900
>quick run down
Pepsi hammer is about playing like you remember, but trying to fix all the rough spots you might have forgotten about. I basically cherry picked the best versions of things from 3rd to 6th, and when nothing suited my fancy I made something up to fill the gap. I have very thourough rules and guidelines for how all sorts of terrain works which was notably (imo) always a weak spot for 40k. (That’s actually how the project started, as an expansion for 6th and 7th).

For example one new mechanic I have added called Overpower, which replaces Instant Death. If your attack is 3 strength greater than the opponents toughness they will take 1 extra wound and be at -1 armour save. I have a blend of classic AP and modern armour rend that I use where appropriate. I’ve also got a new set of rules for psychic powers that I’m super proud of, and a new vehicle damage chart.

I also strive to have really fun codecies, and do my best to balance them. Flavor is the most important part for me so I worked really hard to try and make units feel and behave on the table like I (and my play group’s) expectations. But also some the majority of the rules are pretty similar you can really use any codex from the era with minimal on the fly tweaking.

>>97875281
Cool. I'll mess with that to see what looks best and start updating the files as I go along.

>>97875410
Same! I'll be checking out your updates later today.

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>>97875410
Where are SoB, Pepsi-san? Where are Daemons?
My gf refuses to play any army other than her SoB. I don't mind playing with something else, but Daemons are my main army since forever and as shameful as it is, they are my only fully painted army as well.

>>97875486
>My gf refuses to play any army other than her SoB
kwab

>>97875486
Cap. Tyranids and Orks exist.

>>97875609
>tyranids
i don't think his gf is female (female) (female)

>>97875609
>Tyranids and Orks exist
Your point? She doesn't like horde armies and even her Sisters are not really infantry-heavy.

>>97875486
Rip. But yeh I started with all the armies my friend group has, and have made a few more. At this point a combination of witch hunters and the Deamon hunters books (cause I don’t know if I can be arsed to make two…) is all that’s left for what I’ve always though of as “real factions”. But I’ve also considered doing admech and squats. And my brother in law just bought a fuck ton of GSC so now I gotta deal with that. And sub-faction units too, I’ll need to make supplements for those. I don’t think I’ve ever even looked inside a Deamons codex, I forgot they split them out from CSM.

>>97876074
>I don’t think I’ve ever even looked inside a Deamons codex, I forgot they split them out from CSM
I would rather see them sharing the Codex with CSM honestly. In your case going with the HH approach may be more reasonable workload-wise. Instead of having separate profiles for Plaguebearers, Bloodletters etc., GW simply split them into more generic groups like lesser Daemons, Brutes etc.

I've reposted the Dark Eldar book with bordered artwork and resized covers. Let me know if there is anything that should be changed.

>>97875486
I've got those armies completed in my AA ruleset if you're just looking for something new to try. I didn't include all of the new Sisters units from their refresh, but all of the vehicles should be able to be fielded.

>>97875410
>Pepsi here. Thanks anon I worked really hard on it.
Just downloaded it and will pitch it to my group, looks kino, appreciate your efforts.

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>>97876423
>I've reposted the Dark Eldar book with bordered artwork
Truly, a world of difference. My autism is content, thank you. Now I will try your game.

>>97869949
3.5 base rules as long as you are playing Thousand Sons ;^)

>>97874169
Hey anon, if you're still here, do you have any of the army lists your group has used saved that you could email me? I'd like to look over what units you guys are taking. Also, if you've been playing Tyranids, what are your thoughts on the army? In particular, what do you think of the available level of customization and the synapse rules?

>>97876448
I hope you guys like it! And Im always eager for feedback. - Pepsi

>>97866133
There's also games that "aren't 40k but easily allow for 40k model reuse."
I asked about this on /awg/.

The two standouts (due to being free) are StarBeach and No Limits.
That's all I know. They seem like passion projects by a hobbyist who made making wargames his hobby so expect some really broken rule buried somewhere as tournament play doesn't seem to be considered in the rules writing.

There's also Renegades as a Kill Team alternative.
Also free.

I've never played these games because I can't find anybody to give them a try.
So I cannot comment on the quality. Only say they exist and are free.

>>97878477
Sorry for the late reply, I'll post the list here to bump the thread and to spark discussion, this is one of the less creative Tyranid lists I run, I lost the others I use (For example the 120 Gaunts +30 gargoyles one)
Tyranids 2000 points | Synapse (15)

----HQ----
+ Hive Tyrant [135]
- Twin Linked Devourer [20]
- Pair of Boneswords [15]
- Extended carapace [10]
+ Broodlord [115]
- Acid maw [8]
- Genestealer Brood [70] (Retinue)
- 5 Genestealers [70]
+ Guard Brood [50]
- 2 Hive Guards [100]
- Tyrant Guard [30]
- Crushing Claws [45]

----Elites----
+ Carnifex [150] (Screamer Killer)
- Scything Talons x2
- Tusked [10]
- Bio Plasma [15]
-- Bio Engineering --
- Exceptional Size [24]
+ Venomthrope Brood [45]
- 2 Venomthropes [90]
+ Zoanthrope [65]
- Leach Essence
- Warp Blast [5]
-- Bio Engineering --
- Exceptional Size [13]

----Troops----
+ Genestealer Brood [70]
- 5 Genestealers [70]
+ Tyranid Warrior Brood [90]
- Scything Talons
- Spike Rifles
- Venom Cannon [10]
+ Tyranid Warrior Brood [90]
- Scything Talons x2
- Adrenal Glands [12]
- Leaping [15]

----Heavy Support----
+ Haruspex [190] (Toxicrene)
- Scything Talons
- Toxin Sacs [8]
- Toxic Miasma [10]
+ Haruspex [190] (Psychopage, minus the Psycho part)
- Rending Claws [5]
+ Carnifex [150]
- Scything Talons
- Rending Claws
- Spine Banks [5]

What rules would you change or revert to 2nd edition for HH 3.5 Ruleset ?

>>97879945
>>97878477
As for my marine friend, I'm not sure on the details but it's something along the lines of
Terminator captain w/ orbital strike
Terminator Librarian
2 basic bitch tactical squads of 5
2 ten man terminator squads
Nu dread with lasscannon and missile launcher
Predator
Veteran Squad in a razorback
A devastator squad with those weird new flamers
We run the new dread as a heavy support and I tried balancing it around the contemptor dreadnought from the csm codex and the leviathan dread from the first edition of Horus heresy. As for the Tyranid customization, it's great, I have a few converted models/ ones that don't have rules so I can just build them from something else, the synapse rule doesn't come up in our games that often, I keep my HQ's in the back until the last round most of the time

>>97879969
The push for shorter and shorter games is the thing I hate most. 4 turns? Thats ridiculous. 6 turns minimum and random up to 9 like Rick and Andy intended.

>>97881177
Didn't it got deadlier with v3, so games end up faster ?

>>97881564
More like 3500 became the new standard, which at 4 turns already makes for a 2-3 hour game on average for experienced players. And that’s assuming you focus on playing and don’t spend half the time just hanging out with your mates with the minis on the table and take half an hour to go to the corner store to grab food and beers (which we do a lot).

>>97881564
Deadlier faster is the opposite of what I wanted the from the game. I want long games that actually have enough time to flex and re-strategize to react to your opponents. 4 movement phases is just not enough for me to be interested in even bothering to read the rules.

>>97881885
>>97881177
Agree completely
And its obvious this change is the influence of tournament play because they're trying to pack many short games into one day

>>97879976
Thanks for sharing. Good creativity using the armies to run the Leviathan units. Hopefully the Malefactor works well for you.

>>97881564
No, they made the game shorter because they added a bunch of additional timewasting bullshit like the Challenge system so while it's now only 4 turns the amount of *time* you spend playing is the same as before. And also because with progressive scoring on most if not all missions(I've not bothered to keep up with the trash they've been sharting out in the microbooks) will settle the outcome by the 4th turn no matter what else happens so there's little point going further.

4 turn games are a symptom of the many, many, many other terminal problems with 3.0, not the disease itself.

>>97882582
Random game length is one of the best and most powerful tools for keeping waacs at bay.

What's the best fan rules for the culmination of the Classic Era, I just want the nostalgia of my third through fifth edition days, other stuff is good but fourth end fifth was my introduction to the world

>>97876074
Please promise me that you don't bring modern 40k into this mix and stick to the classic interpretation of the GSC and Squat facti6

>>97878477
Regarding tiranids, you can do a lot of builds but, for the most part. Hormagaunts are to expensive compared to genestealers and termagaunts.
More termagaunts is better than better termagaunts.
Termagaunt+spinefist are great because they are half the price, you use them to asault and block units.
TL devourers are incredible on monsters.
Melee carnifex are absolutely useless.
Barb+venom carnifex are your only reliable AT
Your range attacks are probably better than your melee.
Lictors are super expensive their role is not to kill but to keep busy the long range guns of your enemy. One per army is more than enough.
Imperial armour profiles are ok.
Third and 5th edition special characters are fun and feel compatible and balanced.
You have 3 versions of the trigon, the 5th edition one is the most usable, it's quite balanced (Im cherry picking because heroes and the trigon are quite isolated additions that work ok with the 4th edition codex but don't over do it, other profiles can cause issues and brake the game)

One of the strongest lists is this one, ripers are meant to shield your carnifex of melee troops, the hive t deletes any unit with range attacks.

Clasic nidzilla:
HiveT wing 2xtl dev, shield, tox 186
Broodlord70, carpace 10, hook 3 = 83
11x gene 16 carpace or claws 4, hooks1 = 231

riper 6 60
riper 6 60
riper 6 60
riper 3 30

dakafex 2 tl dev senses 113 (or a single lictor)
dakafex 2 tl dev senses 113
dakafex 2 tl dev senses 113

gunfex ven/barb can senses 148
gunfex ven/barb can senses 148
gunfex ven/barb can senses 148
1493

>>97866133
AA Hammer link please, esteemed colleagues?

>>97885118
Literall just play 4th.

>>97885506
It was already posted in this thread
>>97886145
If you want tips for the current edition you should check out the 40k general thread. Also I checked my scan of the 4th edition witch hunters codex and holy fuck 10 repentia would have cost you 210 points back in the day and they were a 0-1 choice and now you can get 10 for 160 points, point cost deflation is real. Also I know you're not asking for 4th ed but I think Novitates would make for cool Zealots

>>97886260
Which is funny because repentia could melt any unit in the game, if they got to hit.
Which you wouldn't unless you were fighting terminators or a vehicle, or spent miracle.

>>97886260
Aww shit I thought I had gone into the 40k general. My bad!

>>97886132
I thought it was 3rd with 4th codex that was gold standard though.

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>>97866133
Is OPR not liked for some reason? I havent seen anyone mention it and I kinda like their grimdark future rules

>>97886488
It's more of an AWG game, despite the creator treating it like 40k with the serial numbers filled off it really isn't, sorry for the le epic food analogy but 40k is kinda defined by the "fat" on it's meat and OPR is lean

>>97886510
fair enough, I mean the main selling point is literally that you can fit the basic rules on a single piece of A4 paper

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>>97886488
For some reason a few schizos in /awg/ claim OPR is a carbon-copy of "Warhammer" whatever that means, but whenever you ask them to name examples of similarities between OPR and any of the multiple edition of 40k, AoS or WFB, they start to spout buzzwords and make weird faecal and fag sex wordplays. It is a weird kind of mental disability that makes you come to alternative wargames thread, look at the alternative wargame played with alternative miniatures and be confident that you see """Warhammer""". Some of them even insist that you may as well play """""Warhammer""""", in an alternative wargames thread.

>>97886820
what the fuck are you trying to say.

>>97885118
3rd - 5th
I mean, I would say pepsi hammer but I’m not at all biased or anything. It’s designed to be what you described, because that’s exactly what I wanted it to be, playing like how you remember but smoothing over the rough spots you forgot about.

>>97886473
Other way around, 4th with 3rd ed codecies.

>>97885213
I’ll be honest, I haven’t ever even opened the codecies for these factions so I know next to nothing about them. Can you tell me some of the highlights and differences? I happen to have saved a randomly found fan-made 7th Ed squats book port that I don’t even know what it’s from but 7th Ed is inherently already compatible so I could just use that lol.

But along similar lines in case you are curious, I do back port units where I feel it is appropriate. Mostly this comes down to “does the unit fit the design space of the era” and whether or not I think the unit is actually a fitting addition to the codex, or just bloat. Not every faction needs to have every answer to every problem. Far too often new units end up filling purposefully unfilled niches, or being too similar to existing units, in which case one always ends up better than the previous.

An example of a back ported unit that I did use was the Necron canoptic reanimator.

>>97886488
One page rules is a cute concept, but the game doesn’t actually stand on its own foundation of solid rules. It can only be played because the audience already knows how to play warhammer; the whole game is just played on assumption. Nothing wrong with that really, I’m sure almost all of us could play a game of 40k and just guess at how it’s supposed to work and get it mostly right. The whole point of wargames is that the rules are Meant to match your assumptions, but OPR just leaves it entirely as an exercise to the reader.

>>97886858
>other way around
Then what the fuck was fourk doing with their SRD being based on 3rd? Clownshoes.

>>97887084
…the F in Fourk literally stood for Four anon…
Fourk was “let’s play 4th edition with a cutoff date of September 2006”.

>>97887129
It was not a bad idea, 4th edition with 3rd codex. That way everyone gets the toys from 3rd, but an updated rulebook.
But it was like 4 guys doing work and the rest just trolling.

>>97886993
I see where you're coming from, but I think thats the whole point of OPR desu. I mean their whole marketing schtick is "warhammer for people that dont want to play warhammer"

I do think its funny though because OPR is supposed to be warhammer but stripped down to the bare essentials, when stripped down warhammer already exists, written by Rick Priestley too, it just happens to be a WW2 historical game called Bolt Action lmao

>>97887129
Okay that one is on me then, straight up I wonder why I thought it was 3rd rulebook. But the MEGA is still up and you can download the last updated version of 0.98 from June 2025 still. What does it even need to hit 1.00? I also see the guy who was doing it left an email to contact him, wonder if he still checks that.

I'd probably play with 4th codex though, I liked that for Nids. The mutations and shit was a little out of control in 3rd and too exploitable and wonky.

>>97886839
That OPR has no place in the discussion of alternative 40k rulesets just like Infinity or StarCraft. The game itself has a quite big following considering next to no market presence but the reason for that is you can use your Warhammer collection without playing Warhammer. All the games mentioned in the OP are remixes of the existing 40k rules and try to mimic them while refining them at the same time.

>>97866133
>all those games in the OP.
I know it is silly but how about some science fiction miniature agnostic games that have armies that are 'coincidentally' eerily similar in naming and stat conventions to make it 'very easy' for 40k armies to be inserted in?

>>97888341
And by that you mean?

>>97888475
I mean games mentioned in this archived post:
https://desuarchive.org/tg/thread/97555597/#97588194
Things like that.
The Star Breach and No Limits wargame.

>>97888542
Maybe? The thing is most people in this thread WANT to play warhammer 40k, they just want a version with features that suits their needs. For example, I want to play 40k with alternating activations, I can play Custom40k or AA-40k, I want a pseudo retro feeling (After playing a few games with terminator armour and Carinfexes that save 3+ on 2D6 I can't really live without it as otherwise those units feel way to squishy and I dislike wound bloat) so I play AA-40k

>>97866133
>Prohammer has multiple, overlapping rules from various editions stacked next to eachother with no care making them unified
>no codex's
well thats garbage. is there any other "classic" edition 40k unified rules? Pepsi hammer is looking good for that still, its Custom 40k good?

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>>97888790
>Custom 40k good?
It looks fine, as for the classic part, judge by yourself by looking at this profile

>>97888790
it is probably what you are looking for. They are actively working on the rules, are open for suggestions and having games in tabletop simulator

>>97887400
When people say "4th ed with 3rd ed codexes" they dont mean literally every 3rd ed codex, you use the 4th ed ones for Marines, Nids, Tau, and Black Templar (and maybe one or two more I missed). All the ones before the design change. It's the period from 3.5 to 4.5 changeover.

>>97886488
OPR is basically what you get if you take the problems of nu-40k (everything "streamlined" to the point of being stripped of all interesting flavor and options) and crank them up to maximum, it's the exact polar opposite of what people want who are trying to go back to older 40k.

>>97888910
That's my exact problem with it as well, I'm sure that as a game system it probably plays much more smoothly than 40k but I just can't get over how sterile and lifeless it all feels. I like having a whole ton of options and little quirks born from someone trying to fit the fluff into the crunch so I just play 4th edition.

>>97888790
Pepsi here. Prohammer deserves more credit than that, I know because I have proof-read his entire 80 page rulebook. It’s very clear to me that the author puts care and a lot of thought into it. And his philosophy of “if people are interested in and willing to play a homebrew project, then we can reasonably expect them to self govern and be capable of balancing cross editions” is correct. I particularly like how he handles deep strike.
>not unifying rules
He does. His vehicle structure points rules are brilliant to the point I wish I could say that I came up with it.

But obviously I like to vouch for pepsi-hammer.

>>97888870
Some people really do mean only 3rd codexes, but that's not what the previous 4e project here was.

>>97889155
>Some people really do mean only 3rd codexes
No, I don't think anyone does. It was always shorthand for saying "the period of time up to circa 2006 when the new designers started shitting the bed and the codex layouts changed", nobody prefers, for example, the 3rd ed Space Marines codex over the 4th ed one.

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>>97888870
Ah well sure that works great then. I might as well ask here though, I am writing up some profiles for nidders that released after 4th and marking them down as "as many points as my opponent thinks is fair". Some are patently just existing ones with specific combinations of biomorphs some mutable genus already has, those are whatever. I'm more concerned about the others.
Some sketches in no real order
>Venomthrope, ask for what a fair price would be on letting a Zoanthrope have Toxic Miasma instead of Warp Field
>Tyranid Prime, like a Broodlord version of a Warrior with its own retinue and use Alpha Warrior?
>Parasite of Mortrex, stat it like a Winged Warrior with a couple small biomorph enhancements to stats, and give it a retinue of winged Rippers?
>Tyrannofex, start with a Carnifex and let it have a Melta?
>Neurogants, cheap as dirt Hormagaunt with no Leaping and basic as shit CCW with no Rending nor Scything?
>what fucking combination of biomorphs or current and later psychic powers for shit like Norn Emmisary (basically just a Tyrant in my mind)

Some are easier, others are harder, like Pyrovore, but there's a lot of biomorphs and shit from other armies to look at you can sort work something. Shit like Psychophage and Hive Guard are going to be more tricky for me. Keeping the feel right is a balancing act, since I want it to be fluffy and fun for me and get to use it with just local guys who already know I'm not trying to slip in some busted shit.

Would love suggestions if you (or anyone else) would enjoy chiming in.

>>97889217
To start, many of the things you mentioned already have compatible unit entries in the 5th and 6th and 7th Ed tyranid codecies, is there any reason why you don’t just start there? In case you do isn’t know, the core system for 3rd to 7th changed so little that practically speaking the codecies are all cross compatible.
>neurogaunts
Dumb bloat unit that doesn’t need to be shoehorned in. Their existence dilutes the code and makes it worse. And I won’t lie I feel the same way about practically every tyranid unit released past 5th edition.

>>97889292
Because costing varies wildly? Different design ethos? Different assumptions because the army got re-written to be shittier every time from 5th onwards? The point is "if this was being added in 4th from the start, how would they have done it". Because it's a fun project for me and me alone, but maybe some anon could stimulate my thinking and open my mind on an example that interested them.

Duh.

>>97889170
>No, I don't think anyone does.
I do. There's no reason to intentionally powercreep certain factions.

>>97889330
The 4e Eldar codex is objectively a better designed book than the 3e one and I'm tired of pretending it's not.

>>97889315
Ok my mistake. Here is my quick 5 minute guide to fit the vibe and theme of the 4th ed book / era.
Venomthrope
>delete, malanthrope cooler and unit overlap of that degree is bad.
Malanthrope
>copy paste from IA 2nd edition and replace stealth shrouded with fixed 4+ cover save so it won’t stack with terrain (cause that was aweful to experience)
Psycophage, harauspex, the big phat MC zoanthrope with 4 legs,
>slop, delete
Exocryne
>keep it apoc only, ap2 large blast plasma just is not appropriate for normal games.
Tyranofex
>copy from 5e, double the attacks on the flesh border weapon profile and give the flamer torrent if it doesn’t already have it. Limit to 1500 points or more.
Hive guard
>copy from 5e but swap no LOS to -1 cover save or something like that.
Vonryan leapers
>hard one, I’d go with a t4 hormagaunt with +1 attack and 5+ save, make them beasts. 20 points.
Norn emissary, trygon
>too big, apoc only.
Barbgaunts
>2 wound gaunts with pinning deathspitters? 20 points

>>97889410
Sounds like someone lost to 3 shot star cannons one to many time lmao.

>>97889330
Yes there is, the fact that they were very underpowered by the end of 3rd. Also not all of those codexes are more powerful, some of them are just better designed and more flavorful. It sounds like you weren't even around in 3rd/4th.

>>97889414
Imagine a grimace. All noted I guess.

>>97889414
This guy gets it. One thing you can do if you want to include some of the models that don't fit the theme is change how their rules or wargear work. I was initially going to drop the Maleceptor (fat four-legged Zoanthrope) but I decided there was still a gap it could fill. Since Tyranids eat everything on a planet, I figured that it could be a creature that eats psychic energy and retooled how it works.

>>97889427
You can make all the excuses you want, but using 4th edition rules with 3rd edition only codexes is a perfectly valid position.

>>97889414
>calling a Haruspex slop
You realize that thing existing literally predates Tyranids having a 40k codex, right? It was in epic before it was in 28mm. Existed in lore the entire time before it got a model. Even had armourcast rules in late 2nd and 3rd. And Chapter Approved 3rd ed allows the creation of big beasties like it.

>>97866133
I wonder if Chain of Command is viable to use with 40k
use characters attachable as junior/senior officers
morale level based on LD

>>97889447
If you want to do that sure go ahead, but the original point was that basically fucking nobody ever means that when they say "4th edition with 3rd edition codexes" you are just a unique contrarian edge case I guess. 99% of the time, anons are talking about the period in time halfway through 4th ed before the design style of the codexes changed, after a small handful of them had already been released.

>>97889470
Someone did that already. For Horus Heresy only.

>>97889470
I've thought about it before and even wrote up some test rules, but the thing is that CoC really only properly emulates how command would work for Imperial Guard and nobody else. You would basically have to write extremely detailed and drastically different command rules for every faction to keep to the lore and it's a lot of work. Could be cool if someone wants to put that much effort in, but a very, very demanding project.

>>97889414
>Barbgaunts
>>2 wound gaunts with pinning deathspitters? 20 points
When warriors with a regular deathspitter and scything talons is 26? What are you making worse? You think Synapse is worth 6 points?

>>97889544
To cover my own ass, I did say I wrote that in 5 minutes. Im home with the codex now, let's try a bit better. How about give them slow and purposeful, thats seems kinda fitting with their poor 3 legged parasite body. That makes them 2 wound t3 1 attack vs the warrior 2 wound t4 2 attacks. Their guns would also be one less strength I think. Synapse is pretty good, cause these will need some zoanthrope to babysit them or something. Id also give them heavy indirect fire to better capture their design, and to distance them a bit more. Maybe 25 points?

Warrior, 28 points
>t4 w2 a2
>s5 deathspitter
>+1BS
>scything talons (3 attacks in melee)
>synapse
Barb Gaunt, ?? points
>t3 w2 a1
>s4 deathspitter
>bs3 already
>slow and purposeful
>barrage if they dont move

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>>97889436
My issue with the maleceptor is entirely the model design. The inherent universal truth is that, long before the heat death of the universe, all good things will eventually become ruined by bean counters. Bad things, models, rules, both have negative impacts and damage the experience and artistic atmosphere of the game. The zoanthrope is such a perfectly designed mini, its purpose built huge head and its diminutive body are perfectly designed to capture and convey its battlefield purpose to the audience. Its shriveled body and even hold itself up, its practically is just an appendix. But it doesnt need to, cause it just uses its brain power to hold itself up. Then comes in the maleceptor, and its design just spits all over this. "Haha what id we had a psychic carnifex" was just not a question that needed to be answered, and its presence is harmful to the experience. But a bigger, more preposterous zoanthrope like creature is something I can get behind.

>>97889463
Yes and? That model is the literal definition of caddie slop, like you look it up in a dictionary and thats what you see, uninspiring trash. The new mini just doesnt live up to its namesake. Its an awful looking bastardization resulting from Kerby mandating dual build kits. I wont lie the original model did not age, but at least the concept of a giant slug monster fits the bill of
>for the sole purpose of eating, and are deployed in the latter stages of a Tyranid invasion to consume biomass at a rapid rate.
A monster that does this needs to be made in a way for it, where is it going to put all that biomass? The original giant slug thing that glows and grows as it feeds was a good pairing, but such a unit would also inherently just not be a viable combat creature cause its gotta drag all that biomass around.
The haruspex is a background creature that belongs in art and doesnt Need to be in a codex, its like support / logistics vehicles; they just dont really fit within the design space of a 40k game, but sure put them in a supplement. But not the codex.

>>97889915
This is solid actually, I like it. Genofixed species you say?

Also I know you hated Neurogants, but what if they were dogshit Tyrant Guard, a different retinue option which still does the shieldwall thing but is w1 t3 Sv6+ and extends the Tyrant's Synapse range by 6" or something. Some kind of tradeoff. Maybe you can take more than three since they are more disposable.

I figure there is still a decent amount of stuff you can either backport as a new datasheet or by adding different biomorph options to existing mutable species (eg. let flamespurt be an option for Biovores to get one with a flamer template instead and allow hardened carapace if not taking spore-mine launcher, Pyrovore done), even after culling all the shit that should be banished to Apocalypse games. So thank you for taking this one (Barbgaunt) seriously, this is really nice.

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>>97890025
Yeh genofixed for sure, I cant think of a more specialized niche unit except the biovore.
>Retinue
Could you just imagine how strong it would be to have a hive tyrant hiding behind a 32 man ablative wound gaunt unit? Nah if I was forced at gun point to include them, I would make them exploding suicide units. I do not know why, but I cannot look at the neurogaunts without seeing those exploding lava monsters (lambent wretches) from gears of war 1.
>Pyrovore
This is one of those units where I am on the fence. On one hand, that new mini is so good. On the other hand I believe it helps (hurts) to round out the tyranid army too much. It feels like someone at corporate said "what tyranid unit can we make now" and the result was it not being driven by design intent, but as outcome (money). But I think the 5th ed unit card is probably over costed even, Id make them have the +1 wound biomorph for 3 total at 40 points. Its a 6" moving heavy flamer. Give it fleet too, those things look fast.

Hey, guy, the wiki has a typo. Are we just leaving it like that?
https://warhammer40k.fandom.com/wiki/Timeline_of_the_Warhammer_40,000_Universe#Devastation_of_Baal_(ca._999.M41_-_Unknown_Date.M42)
>reclaim taht half of the Imperium

>>97890125
>Could you just imagine how strong it would be to have a hive tyrant hiding behind a 32 man ablative wound gaunt unit?
Oh for sure, you'd want to limit the fuck out of it, I was thinking 3-6 so the same amount of wounds as the tyrant guard but their utility came from the bonus to synapse and less their ablative wounds. 32 would be fucking retarded. Exploding suicide units, with or without access to Without Number? Just exploring your perspective more on that alternative.
>Pyrovore
Speaking of exploding. There's a lot of ways to make it. I think at bare minimum it need to be very short range, but also have a way to survive long enough to get into range against its preferred target big fat groups of shit infantry. The chain explosion bullshit from 5e was also retarded. Minimum expectation, good odds of getting up close and personal with guardsmen-tiers, but not so durable that they can threaten something more sturdy. The new mini is impossible to pass up, gotta come up with something.

>>97889471
Whatever you want to believe, buddy.

>>97890422
At this point I think you're just trolling, here's your last (You).

>>97890447
Yeah, me disengaging and going "whatever bud" is trolling.
Epic troll. u mad?

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Let's talk about stratagems, no not the shit kind where you have to get CP to shoot twice, the kino kind where you draw cards at the begining of the game. I think they are cool and games should have them, maybe every army could get their own deck of strategy cards + generic cards like reinforcments, look out sir, etc

>>97886260
yup found the link thanks!

>>97891193
Are you just taking a look at the system or do you plan on playing some games? If you do end up playing, my email address is in the folder and feedback always helps. Copies of army lists too, especially if I can see how your builds change over time.
Have fun!

>>97881580
But do you still have enough units alive at the end of turn 4 ?

>>97881885
I have some ideas to make shooting attacks less lethal.

>>97882582
I'd rather the fix be narrative oriented than for tournaments

>>97883469
What are the other problems ?

>>97883469
>progressive scoring
This is one of the biggest cancers in modern wargaming, I'm trying to fight a battle not play fucking sportsball. You either achieve the objective by the end or you don't. No general ever "scored" his troops on how long they stood on the hill or bridge he wanted captured, all that matters was if you were still standing on it when the battle was over.

>>97893926
nta but one of the other problems with 3.0 was the huge loss of options and customization, and the overall writing of the ruleset seem to have some odd choices, like the challenge system, now not only legions, in general, lost some special rules but they were replaced with challenge stuff same with most special characters (half the special rules from primarch and named character are challenge related)

>>97895116
Challenges are a good mechanic in theory imo, the writers of 3.0 just got completely lost in the fucking sauce and overcomplicated the shit out of it for very little real gain.

>>97895050
Eh, I dont think turn based scoring is the root of the problem. My friends and I have been playing with homebrew missions that include some with turn-based scoring for like years now and its great. The real issue is more that 40k rulebook missions have just always been utter trash. In 4th and 5th I think every mission is just the same "move your units on to the objective at the very last turn and you win lol". 6th edition only had one single good mission, the relic. The rest were trash.
>all that matters is if you were standing on it when the battle is over
If it helps you theme the mission, its easy to explain away as some sort of time critical thing like a data uplink, or AA emplacements, where by the end of the battle its too late. I actually think its the opposite, where holding objectives at the end of the last turn is harder to theme. It needs you to make up some event that brings about the end of the fight, and unless that involves annihilation of the enemy forces as part of the theme its a little hard to rationalize why everyone just stopped fighting.

But, I think even worse is when you combine progressive scoring with fixed turn length. Being able to calculate that you have lost by the half way point is super lame. A combination of random game length and both sorts of missions is best.

>>97895746
I've found a good way to run progressive scoring objectives is to give each objective a set points value which 'drains' as points are granted to a player. So whichever player holds it each turn earns 10% of its VP value and whoever hols it at the end of the game gets what's left. It encourages fights early to take as much from the objectives as you can but also rewards the player holding one the end of the game with big vp boosts to help prevent foregone conclusions.

>>97895839
>hybrid approach, mine more minerals
Thats a really cool sounding mission actually. And I think it just goes to show that there are multiple ways to go about the problem and none of them are inherently bad. Variety is really the way you want to go here because it means you cant lock in a winning strategy (read list building) to bring to the table every time. 10th edition has like 11 missions, but all but 2 of them are just classic capture point with some lame twist.
Ive got a pretty rounded selection of missions that encourage all styles of play. I think this just goes a long way towards keeping the game fun and interesting.

One of the more harmful changes in modern 40k I think is OC. I think having a tie state is very important, and having weakened units be capable of doing so keeps their importance up which is fun for gameplay.

Along a similar lines, an approach I take (which is built to encourage well balanced armies) is that you build the table, build your list, roll for mission, place objectives, and then roll for deployment type. I find this is a great way to end up with balanced scenarios. Knowing what the table looks like before you list build means no one feels like they get too shafted, but not knowing the exact mission parameters keeps you from being able to min-max too hard.
-Pepsi

I just got done making q force in Custom40k and you know what? This is the best god damn ruleset I could have ever wanted out of 40k as a setting and game. Bravo to the man who made this

>>97891106
I hate the notions of strategy being randomly drawn from a deck. There is nothing strategic about that. They should be something built into the mission specifics, or hesitantly, something as part of list building / chosen during deployment.

>>97898663
I think it has a fun factor as something your commander and his troops came up with just before the battle or a result of variables that change quickly, for example comms clearing up enough for the commander to order a bombing run. The idea of them being built into a mission sound cool, a mission where the attacker can play reinforcements and the defender has something like booby traps is a neat idea. Being able to choose them in list building would just reduce them to a few meta picks

>>97898825
>a few meta picks
You’re likely right, but if I had to choose between that and random I’d go with that. I still think mission specifics is the time for strategems. Standard ‘pickup’ i.e. narrativeless games don’t need them.

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>>97866447
>>97873986
I'm actually rather fond of 40k Reforged. I appreciate their enthusiasm and their attempts to make wargear work, among other changes. They do seem to be in that weird niche of correction-projects where they tunnel into the project itself and go insane a little? It's the same with the Starcraft Broodwar super-mod 'Cosmonarchy'. The names for the units are absolutely atrocious. They even renamed the Protoss Scout into the Panoptus because they said 'Scout' was a bad name and didn't reflect the unit at all. ignoring the flavour of the fact that Protoss are so advanced that what they considered a scout was a air superiority fighter to normal races.

>>97899496
Irving Finkel is one of the rare few likeable brits.

>>97895746
>all that matters is if you were standing on it when the battle is over
It's not about "theming" the mission, it's about what makes an enjoyable mission to play. Last turn capture is superior because it permits *actual tactics* like drawing your opponent off and then using mechanised units or outflanking reserves to swoop in and capture objectives on other parts of the board. It forces you to choose between concentrating defences or spreading yourself thin and potentially losing an objective to a focused thrust. And the tactics required can be varied in the different missions by simply altering the number and placement of the objectives. With progressive scoring you either get your arse on the point asap or you lose, so everyone just leaves a token defence on their "home" objective and everything else turns into a mid-table moshpit.

>>97866932
>Oh sick he even included the affinity publisher files!
>but not for the last version
Bruh.
nuSRDanon fucking wake up and post the latest version of the fucking affinity file so I don't have to redo work to make it look nicer. 0.98's PDF has fucking typos I want to fix.

I've been playing small points games of 7th edition with friends recently,just using the standard detachment. Are there any 5th edition list builders out there? We play 7th bc thats what newrecruit has

>>97900996
Why not just open the codex and write out your lists on a piece of paper with a pen? Genuinely. I get that it is objectively more convenient to not have to write it yourself, but it's marginal. And since it's marginal, if there isn't one you can just click options on, it's not really appreciably more complex to just write it out by hand. Right?

>>97901017
yeah just convenience, and its easier to get people to switch if its more convenient. Gotta track down all the old codexes too, the only ones i have from when i was younger is space marines and guard

>>97901026
>7th edition
Can I convince you to try pepsihammer? I don’t have a list builder, but all the rules are here >>97901026 and I put in a lot of effort into my typesetting to make things easy, pleasant, and familiar to read.

Hey everybody, looking for suggestions.

I need to think of a name for my singular faction of 'free' Necrons. I despise the current state of Necron lore as a whole, but I'll admit that there are plenty of kernels of good ideas for them from their 5th edition revamp onward. Most importantly, I'm switching the current power dynamics in my write up - the C'tan were still broken into shards when they were at their weakest before going to sleep after the WiH by a faction of Necrons that managed to slip the control they established in the bio-transference. However this didn't free the other Necron forces from their control and now the remaining C'tan led Necrons are at war with each other and the rest of the galaxy as each woken shard attempts to gain full control.
So what I'm doing is taking all of the named Necron characters and rolling them under the banner of the Sautekh Dynasty. My problem is, all of those 'Tech' names are stupid as hell, and not in a way that I can enjoy.
So what should the name of this faction be? I had tried a few options that were close to the original name so new players would know what they were right away (Sautak Dynasty, House Sau'tarr) but none of them are clicking for me. Thoughts?

>>97903188
Perhaps make the names Greek or Latin instead of being Egyptian-sounding. It would reflect the modern state of it, and getting rolled into a bit of a separate thing.

>>97903188
Maybe just go with free Necrons? Go ultra nerd and call them Necrontyr? Also I have two small questions : Should the Imperial Ordanace be able to take Two coaxial wyvern mortars? becasue that's 8 shots, second will you be making a Codex Inqusition or adding Inqusitors to the Codex Imperialis?

>>97903549
Those are good ideas. I've actually been taking a look at some Babylonian naming conventions too. For the individuals themselves, I plan on only having them known by their titles. So you won't have 'Imotekh', you'll just have names like 'The Stormlord' and 'The Infinite'. I like the boogyman quality it gives them.

>>97903745
Just 'Necrontyr' is pretty good too. They definitely call themselves that. It would be a good fallback option.
Regarding your questions, the wyvern mortar should be two shots base, four shots total. I wrote the weapons into that book before the units, so it became a coaxial weapon later and I forgot to update the prodile.
I do plan on writing an Inquisition book. Once I get the Grey Knight and Deathwatch joint book done, that will be my next Imperial project. The current plan is to allow your army to be from one of the three major Ordos and then choose whether its a Puritan or Radical army. Those choices will affect your unit and wargear options and allow you to bring in units from the Sisters of Battle, Deathwatch and Grey Knights (and instead, possibly some Chaos units and wargear for Radical Ordo Malleus armies).

>>97903188
>I dislike nucrons
As a nucron hater myself, I also cooked up some new lore, you should read the into paragraph from my Necron codex and tell me what you think.

In terms of naming, do you dislike the sounds? Or just the silly spelling. I take it Sautek is off the table? Reading this I couldn’t hear anything but the scene from one punch man where Genos says “incinerate”in Japanese which is pronounced “Shyokek” or something along those lines.

>>97904060
I just dislike the pun in general. If it had been maybe a one and done thing, maybe I wouldn't have been as bothered, but Ward was never a clever man.
I liked that bit of lore you wrote though. You've put into my head the idea of the Necron's puppeting the lifeless 'corpse' of a C'tan into battle, it's living metal husk remembering a whisper of its former power. I think I'm going to write up an Elite unit for the free necron faction based on that.
I dig the phase out and everliving rules leaning into the undead themes. Feels much better than the old one which punished you for taking the expensive toys and not more warriors.

Ok, I've uploaded the rough draft for Codex: Necrons. If anyone wants to give any feedback its appreciated. Also, I've only given it one pass over since finishing it, so there may be issues, let me know if anything stands out. My preferred method of balancing this will be by adjusting points values, so if something is overpowered, I'd rather make it more expensive first before trying other changes.
The high points I had while writing this - making everything bullshit, build-a-c'tan (but only from the major four, they ate the rest), tachyon arrows that shoot back in time and can possibly cause paradoxes, the silliness that is the tesseract vault.

>>97890259
>Pyrovore
Actually since they are related to Biovores they shouldn't be charging. They are objective holders, you want them to sit in cover near an objective and make approaching that area fucking suck. Or covering the army's rear and making approaching suck. Same characteristics profile as a biovore, acid maw, twin-linked heavy flamer, 10th's deadly demise or close enough to it, brood telepathy, done. Take 3 and throw them down on a spot, approaching them sucks, fighting them in melee sucks (if you take 3 then that's a little under 50% chance the deadly demise triggers at least once I think?), but they don't suck now. Call it 65ppm? Ask your opponent if they think that's a fair cost I guess.

>>97903847
>he current plan is to allow your army to be from one of the three major Ordos and then choose whether its a Puritan or Radical army. Those choices will affect your unit and wargear options and allow you to bring in units from the Sisters of Battle, Deathwatch and Grey Knights
Neat, I'm asking becasue I have an Imperial guard army that I want to run as an Inqusitor's private force, mostly to explain Storm trooper spam and using arbitees as veterans with shotguns and because I really like the red and black paint scheme

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>>97866133
Hello I haven't played 40k in fifteen years. How badly did they fuck up the rules that people are making new rulesets for reasons besides memery like movie marines now?

>>97908346
Ignorance is bliss, do not glimpse beyond the pale , or you will find a game desgined for people who wish they could be E-sport pros but lack the reaction time for shooters and Starcraft and autism for things like DOTA so they play a game where list building is 90% (And they copy lists from online forums) of the game and the remaining 10% is dice luck

>>97903847
I have read the necron codex and dusted off my crusty ass unpainted necron army to make a list, actually very happy I can make 1500 points list.
--HQ--
Necron Master [70]
-Overlord [35]
-Voidblade [20]
-Gauntlet of Fire [15]
-Untarnished [15]
-Gaze of Flame [8]
Necron Master [70]
-Staff of Light [30]
-Untarnished [15]
--Troops--
Warrior Maniple [65]
-5 Warriors [65]

Warrior Maniple [65]
-5 Warriors [65]

Warrior Maniple [65]
-5 Warriors [65]

Warrior Maniple [65]
-5 Warriors [65]

Warrior Maniple [65]
-5 Warriors [65]
-Untarnished [20]

Warrior Maniple [65]
-5 Warriors [65]
-Untarnished [20]

--Fast Attack--
Ophidian Maniple [50]
-2 Ophidians [100]
-3x Two hyperphase blades [90]

Scarab Swarm [45]

Scarab Swarm [45]

--Heavy Support--
Heavy Destroyer Maniple [50]
-Untarnished [6]
-Gauss Field [2]
-Heavy Gauss Cannon [10]

I really like the untarnished rule, I always enivsioned Necrons as a Elite horde army and this gives choice as to how elite you want your army. You didn't lie this list has access to a lot of bullshi.... powerfull stuff. I kinda want to get a C'tan now and turn my Overlord into a servant of destruction, 2D6 saves are kinda op (but I think the 35 point costs is fair)

>>97908968
Looks good, I love the mass warrior lists. If you manage to get any games in with the army let me know, I'd be interested in hearing how they went.
Just to be clear, rules as written a C'tan has to be your general if you take one, so you wouldn't be able to also take a model with Servant of the C'tan. One of my rules for myself writing this list was to avoid cases where C'tan powers could be taken by multiple models. That being said, it could change in the future.
Glad you like the Untarnished rule, I enjoy both depictions of the Necrons and my headcannon is that the more the tomb world wakes up and pulls itself back together, the more untarnished its forces become.

>>97909530
Ah... Makes sense, guess the big tiddy C'tan stl will have to wait. Still the lord with basically terminator armour is the more tempting in my opinion.
>If you manage to get any games in with the army let me know, I'd be interested in hearing how they went
GOD I FUCKING WISH, scheduling a game with my friends is impossible and other players in my area are such good goys that GW decided to open their second store in the country here

>>97909579
My condolences. And for the record, if you ever do get a chance to play and you want to run the C'tan and general together, go right ahead. I ain't your boss.

>>97909579
>other players in my area are such good goys that GW decided to open their second store in the country here
GRIM.

>>97892974
Currently trying to find a 3.5 40k system, study it and then transfer my OPR group to it. Thanks for replying, if I get any games going I will send feedback.

Good to know you are this active, best wishes!

>>97909707
>>97909703
Actually I'm going to vent a bit, I remember being at a store I go to because it has the lowest prices in the area. After buying what I wanted I foolishly decided to go watch the games being played. One of those games was space marines vs space marines... both armies had Guilman, both armies had Calgar, both armies had three of those weird flying tanks... all on a table filled with L shaped terrain.... and next to that was a table with a game of HH, that had actual armies, and used the terrain that the store has and allows anyone to use. Honestly I'd get into Horus Heresy and play with those guys, except they are in an even worse spot than me (from talking to them I learned that they are lucky if they have enough time to play two games a year) and I don't want to paint more power armour, also there was an Infinity table that looked great but my autism dislikes skirmish games

>>97899496
>It's the same with the Starcraft Broodwar super-mod 'Cosmonarchy'. The names for the units are absolutely atrocious.
Yeah I've seen replays of this before on Youtube, it looks like absolutely retarded fucking slop made by spergs. Brood War is an almost perfect game as is, these guys are like drooling retarded cargo cultist islanders by comparison to the original Starcraft team.

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>>97866610
>THE alternative 40k ruleset
Which is?

>>97866419
>>97866457
>>97867039
>>97868074
I would open that thread every few weeks to call the participants losers and washed-up failures and to remind them that the "project" was going nowhere and had zero purpose or appeal and would receive no uptake anywhere in any community. Looks like I was right.

The tell? It wasn't the idea itself. It was the disappointing reality that the despised and deserted participants had to congregate HERE to make their silly little plans. When the racist grievance-weaving forum full of mentally-ill abandonment cases hard-locked into autistic contrarianism is your final redoubt for any sort of creative, collaborative endeavour that's a sure sign that you're already an evolutionary dead-end.

The Dream Team was a tiny group of fading elders processing their nostalgia through anger and jealousy. A bunch of people who no longer play games, angry about it, trying to dupe others into valorizing their preferred era of 40K because it makes them feel like, yeah, we really existed, those times were real, it wasn't a waste of life, all the energy I put into career those long decades ago was really For Something.

t. a 4th edition preferrer who quit 40K a few games into 8th edition, but just won't play the nostalgia game with sundowning chuds

>>97911760
imagining yourself as some sort of noble culture warrior to justify shitposting is pretty fucking cringe desu

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>>97911760
Mastercrafted bait, it allows the model equipped with it to re-roll failed to bait rolls

Replying to obvious bait is a type of kindness. But I think you should be less kind. There are better ways to bump a thread.

>>97911760
>le racist chuds
Confirming as usual all anti-creativity comes from mentally-ill projecting leftist crabs-in-a-bucket trannies trying to tear down the efforts of actually productive people.

>>97889486
How did you "resolve" armor (marine or terminator power armor, and equivalents)? Like cover, or did you add a new mechanic?

>>97899496
Upload the rules somewhere, please anon.

>>97912701
>transcribing 20-year-old PDFs is creativity

>>97912701
Retard.

>>97912799
I only used the command dice/turn order etc rules from CoC, kept all the usual hit-wound-save, strength/toughness/AP mechanics from 40k. CoC only has to simulate combat between real humans, it cant handle a galaxy with power armour and space orks.

>>97913009
Not what I wanted to hear, but thanks anyway anon.
I'm looking into doing something similar to >>97889475, and how to handle power armor is the hurdle I'm currently unable to resolve.

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Bumping the thread with another list for AA-40k now with (Horribly taken) pictures. This is the Inquisitorial army I was talking about. Two questions : I want to round it up to 1500 points, should I prioritize finishing Ogryns or Storm troopers or maybe more basic infantry. Second : I have never played guard in my life in any edition could this army be a pain in the ass?

--HQ--
Armored Company Commander [40]
-Leman Russ Tank [125]
-Main Battle Tank
-Heavy Flamer
-Exterminator Autocannon [15]
-Heavy Stubber [5]

--Troops--
Veteran Squad [95]
-Shotguns
-Combat Armor [15]
-Grenade Launcher [5]
-Twin Linked Heavy Stubber [5]

Veteran Squad [95]
-Shotguns
-Combat Armor [15]
-Twin Linked Heavy Stubber [5]
-Bolt Pistol [1]
-Power Weapon [10]

--Fast Attack--
Hellhound [100]
-Inferno Cannon
-Multi Melta [15]

--Heavy Support--
Leman Russ Tank [125]
-Main Battle Tank
-Lascannon [20]
-Sponson Heavy Flamers [10]
-Battle Cannon [25]

Leman Russ Tank [125]
-Main Battle Tank
-Lascannon [20]
-Eradicator Nova Cannon

Imperial Mobile Ordnance [80]
-Wyvern Mortar [15]
-Heavy Bolter [5]


--Oficio Assasinorum Operative--
Eversor Assassin [130]

>>97913826
I would probably do a few more infantry first.
So, from a list building perspective, this wouldn't be legal rules as written (not that I would have any problem playing against it.) Veterans can only either be taken in place of one squad in an infantry platoon, or you can take one veteran squad on its own as an elites choice. Now if you wanted to run this with what you have here, you could do so with minimal changes. The easiest way would be to take the Veterans Doctrine, then take a platoon command squad to lead those two units as a single troops choice. You could then pay 10 pts to upgrade one of the Heavy Support LR tanks to a squadron commander (an Elites choice) and the other other LR could be taken as a Troops choice as part of that commander's squadron. The details for how that works can be found under the Armored Company Commander entry.
Looks like a fun list overall, the smaller number of infantry would make it tough to hold ground, but that many tanks and heavy weapons can be tough to deal with with an all-comers list.

>>97914535
Oh, so I HAVE to take an infantry platoon, I thought that was optional so you could cram more infantry in a list. Good thing I have two command sections ready, guess I will work on that, thank you.

>>97914580
No problem. The rules for platoons at the front of the book describe how that works, but it could be noted on the unit entry too. When I next post an IG codex update, I'll have something added there to make it clearer.

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>>97914615
>I haven't read the special rules
I am retarded

>>97914630
This is what playtesting is all about. In my hubris I didn't think about the players who don't have time for that shit.

>>97914963
In my defense I usually read codices more thoroughly before a game and since I'm not getting any of those any time soon I focused on wargear and veteran skills, I don't know if I want my storm trooper platoon to be sharp shooters or Hardened fighters when I get around to adding it to the list, I build a unit of then with melee weapons.... I'm a double retard I build a unit with close combat weapons instead of hellguns and only now have I realized that only the command section may do that... I want to cry... at least I like how they look, and I can run them as more veterans....

>>97910857
>slop unit bloat
The adept was the biggest affront to starcraft, I hate it. To me it is the perfect representation of bloat damaging the artistry sense of identity of an army. Iconic parts of what used to be the face of the faction are brushed away. When you just have too many things it all starts to blur of the factions personality, washing over what used to be defining strengths and weaknesses.

>>97913009
>dice turn order etc
Can you give a summary of how this is? Thanks.

>>97915274
Also applies to having too many factions. 21 codices is a lot. Plus four more expansions for one of those factions. Sure puts the rules writers in a tough spot I'm sure. Or how about >100 datasheets in just one faction? Yikes.

Can't realistically cull even for a fan game though, people would genuinely cry and piss and shit if their super special faction didn't get to be its own thing. Even though its a detriment to have that. I think 18 would still be a lot. 12 would probably be the limit for proper differentiation.

>>97915343
Yes especially when they are so similar. The game really does not benefit from having 5 different chaos space marine codecies. Especially when you sum that with GWs horrible practice of a rolling release schedule.

Drawing the line in the sand is one of the hardest things for a homebrewer to do, because they lack the distant authority of the all -knowing James who-is-never-wrong. Ultimately you have to be the gatekeeper of a walled garden. Its always easier to just not back port any units and pretend your hands are tied than to pull in some of the genuinely good new things while avoiding the crap GW churns out.

>>97915369
Well, for CSM in particular 3.5 already had all the special monogod marines, demons, and such. You'd only be losing out on some characters and daemon engines. What would be way worse is regular Space Marines. Even if you did something similar to CSM's structure, it would be rough. Space Wolves players could easily go "look at our long history! we've been our own thing since forever!". Or are Witchhunters (now Sisters) and Mechanicus even good enough to be their own thing or couldn't they be Guard units? Why couldn't a Sister have a big suite of gear so you could have everything from regular to celestians, dominions, seraphim as a squad of elites in your Guard list. Or same with a tech priest and his retinue. Well, if you do this you piss off both of those two AND guard player who don't wanna be "the Army of the Imperium" they want to be the Imperial Guard.

There's a case to be made for it. At the very least, if you are writing it as a custom codex for a specific edition you have the fallback of
>well, you could always just play the existing codex for this edition instead and treat this as a separate thing
however guys like Pepsi, AA, Custom40k, etc. who changed the core rules can't. Perhaps the truth and the way was everyone writing their own custom 3.5 compatible codex and having a couple dozen to pick and choose from for your own groups. Hard to say.

>>97915328
Sure yeah, Chain of Command is a WW2 game that simulates command friction through a mechanic called command dice. At the start of your turn you roll your hand of command dice which is usually 5, although less disciplined rookie armies might have 4 and elite forces might have 6. You also can lose command dice as officers/units get killed and things.

A roll of a 1 lets you activate a fire team.
A roll of a 2 lets you activate a full squad if they're all in coherency.
A roll of a 3 lets you activate a junior leader like a sergeant, who can order his squad with slightly more options than the 2 and do things like remove shock/pinning.
A roll of a 4 lets you activate a senior officer who can command multiple squads around him.
A roll of 5 builds up what are essentially command points in this game but you need 6 of them to actually do something, and these allow stuff like interrupts during the opponents turn or manipulating reserves.
A roll of 6 does nothing, but if you get at least two 6's you take another turn immediately after, and increasing numbers of 6's give you other bonuses on top. But because every 6 you rolled wasn't able to activate a unit, the "double turns" are more like a turn and a half, or a turn and a quarter... you can chain them together though if you roll lucky.

All in all it's a very cool and fun system where you never know exactly what your options are going to be until your next turn, so you have to adapt and adjust plans on the fly. It replicates some of the fog of war and confusion of battle where units can't always do exactly what you want them to do and it makes turns ebb and flow with an irregular rhythm that feels way more like real battle than "I move all of my army and shoot with all of my army after its done moving and then charge with all of my army after its done shooting and then you do all of that in exactly that order".

>>97916124
Right, but how did you translate this to 40k?
>1 is a ?
>2 is a squad
>3 is a unit leader
>4 is a character
>5 is a ?
>6 is a ?
Do you have number of dice scale with game size or do you play within a range of points like Chain of Command does?

>>97879033
Where do I find Renegades? Its a very generic name

>>97916124
Huh, cool, thanks. Fog of war is a hard attribute to handle in table top games cause well, you as the player can just see everything.
>>97917000
I think he said he didnt because it isnt suited for non-human fighting. Like Dark Eldar arnt going to listen to no chain of command, and space marines dont need one.

>>97917768
Every single faction has a Chain of Command + Command and Control elements. When 40k 8th edition came out and dumbed it down for retarded people a lot of those rules went away

>>97918139
>Every single faction
As in some other homebrew? Cause 40k beaver had any of that beyond “is my army fearless or not”. Imperial guard had their order mechanic and that was about the closest and only thing, unless you count marker lights.

>>97915343
If I was gonna do it then I'd say
>give regular SM the CSM 3.5 codex treatment, no bullshit special snowflake codex for SW/BA/DA/etc.
>do Guard basically the same as the 3.5 codex
>delete AdMech, Techpriest+retinue (servitors or skitarii or a castellan) is an HQ option for Guard
>delete Sisters, Canoness+retinue (regular or jump pack) is an HQ option for Guard
>delete Grey Knights
>delete Custodes
>delete Imperial Agents
>make CSM 3.5 again (mortals)
>make Codex Daemons (warp entities)
>Codex Eldar (includes Harlequins and Corsairs)
>Codex Dark Eldar (also includes Harlequins and Corsairs)
>Codex Orks
>Codex T'au
>Codex Necrons
>Codex Tyranids
>delete Votann
>delete GSC
>delete redundant bullshit from every codex that remains
>done

That's the hot take.

>>97920431
Your hot take disgusts me. Good work. At least we both still agree that Votann can pound sand.

>>97920431
This is completely fucking retarded and obviously written by a newfag pretending to be a grog.

AdMech was the most requested new faction by the fans for decades before they finally got a long-awaited model line and codex.

Sisters have been in the lore since 1987 and had their own Codex since 2nd.

Adding both of the above to Guard is retarded gay lore rape.

Grey Knights have been in since RT Realms of Chaos.

Custodes were in since RT and were long-requested, although they arguably could be added to Imperial Agents instead of being a full codex.

Speaking of which, Imperial Agents as a catch-all has been around since 2nd edition and Assassins and Inquisitors need to go somewhere.

CSM and Daemons being split is gay and retarded.

Eldar and DE containing Harlies and Corsairs is the only good thing you've said besides putting all snowflake marines in one big book.

GSC have been in since Rogue Trader (literally predate the actual fucking Tyranids) and were in the 2nd ed Tyranid Codex AND have a fucking incredible model line.

Votann I think GW fucked up with a fair bit but people have still been asking for Squats to return for ages.

You should kill yourself.

>>97920431
>hot take
damn right, it's completely inconsistent and some shit's downright retarded

>>97920431
Desu not a hot take at all. I would go a little less hole hog than that, but not too far off.
I would go
>space marines get csm 3.5 books of chaos treatment
>cms like 3.5 but with actual unique units from 4th
>Inquisitorial storm troopers with books of chaos style Greyknights, Battle Sisters, and Admech
>IG with 5th ed orders but 3.5 ed build-a-bear regiments
>eldar 4th ed
>dark eldar 5th ed
>Orks 4th ed
>Tau 6th ed with 0-1 riptide
>Tyranids 4th ed
>3rd ed necrons with 9th ed war of the worlds units but not 5th ed tomb kings in space
>GSC can be a supplement (like up to 50% I think) to either guard OR tryanids
>delete custards
>delete knights
I am ambivilent to votan. I hate their rune priests in space, but I love the Wayland Yutani bioengineered wageslave lore. And those little buggies are dope beep beep.

>>97920720
Oh no, this isn't for grog points at all.
I genuinely just think that people who play the armies I want to squat are retards who should kill themselves and their armies suck and should never have existed. Hope that clears it up for you!

>>97920720
>calls someone a newfag
>reddit spacing
should be a bannable offense

>>97920808
You're a newfag trash talking iconic 40k armies that are older than you.

>>97920820
You're also a retarded newfag that fell for the reddit spacing meme. People have used paragraph spacing on 4chan posts since before reddit existed. I would know because I was here then, whereas you are basically giving away that you came here from reddit so you think they invented spaces. Fucking dumbass.

>>97920825
>i-it's iconic
Get raped lmao. They are retarded garbage that dilutes the game. Pure factionslop.

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>>97920825

>>97920830
wrong meme lol
oh well, just imagine i posted the right one

>>97920829
Ah, you've just been baiting the entire time and I fell for it. I see. Be less obvious with the follow up next time.

>>97920808
Tell you what though, I was too nice saying a token Canoness and her retinue could exist in Guard (precedent established with Priests, Ecclesiarchy has sent units to join Guard since forever and this would be "cooler" models for the same purpose), and ignoring that Techpriest + servitor has been in Guard Codex since 2nd edition.

I decided they should be squatted completely now, token efforts are not appreciated. Squat Crusader Squads at the same time for no reason. Fuck em.

>>97920840
What if it's not bait. What if it's my genuine, unfiltered, dogshit opinion. Then what? You gonna cry? Piss your pants? Shit a little? Your factionslop genuinely is an albatross. If you wanna have three dozen of pointless samey factions go play OPR. The game needs less, not more.

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>>97920720
[taps sign]

>>97920845
stop trying so hard, it's embarrassing

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>>97920851
>trying so hard
The only thing easier than pwning your candyass is your mother LMAO.

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Sorry anons, but unfortunately he has ground to stand on.

>>97920431
The fact that so many people hate on this despite it being entirely based makes me realize there is no hope for 40k.

>>97866133
Just go back to 8e, 6e, or 5e.

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>>97915274
That's more realistic. Too strongly defined and arbitrary difference between factions are gamey. Tech, military doctrines etc naturally spread around
>>97915343
>too many factions. 21 codices is a lot
It's pathetically small for a galaxy

>>97921443
>It's pathetically small for a galaxy
Damn you're so right, 100 datasheets per faction and create another 18 factions based off single mentions throughout the setting's history right now. This would definitely make the game better. You're so right and anyone not wanting this is a fake grog and probably reads BL (the chinese homo kind).

>>97920431
>Imperium codex: Guard/marines
>Chaos codex: Csm/Daemons
>Xenos codex: everything else
I think you can cut down on those further, there is no real reason for more than 4 codexes other than GW wanting to sell you shit. Guard and marines already operate closely enough that you can just put them together, same as daemons and csm while xenos can have generic statlines that are modified by a faction rule to represent specific units. For example generic xeno soldier with a layered faction rule on top with improved shooting for tau, melee for orks, speed for elfs, armour for necrons and so on. That's not so much as a hot take than the truth.

>>97922474
Which of the ones this post wants to squat is yours?

The only factions that should be deleted from the game and replaced are the orks, the Tau and the Votann.
If you think otherwise you are a homosexual, with no taste and a newfag.

>>97922474
One of the main reasons to downsize the faction roster to its 3rd-6th edition size is to keep maintenance manageable. That’s not a bad idea for a starting point for your own homebrew as the overhead is lower. But you’ve got room to grow for flavor before you start to get bloat.

>>97923030
I play guard, I'm not sure where you got the impression my faction is ever getting squatted. The "generic unit + subfaction rules to represent some specific faction that might not even be guard like admech" is how guard works in some 40k editions and there is no reason it can't be applied to other factions.

>>97923086
I haven't kept up with 40k in years so I can't speak for how bloated it has become but I do remember some things people wanted that could be solved by merging everything in 3 books. for imperials:
>gets rid of allied rules which people have always felt rather unsatisfied with, when they are even present
>allows imperial players to run vehicles of one faction as part of another without having to have separate datasheets/special rules/allies which is also something that got requested a lot over the years
>reduces the amount of books needed to carry around to 1
>follows the lore as marines usually support guard and it's not like you would get barred from running full marine/guard, same with csm/daemons
Merging xenos also keeps them deliberately generic enough to manage and once balance is figured out for the basic models one would just need to figure out the price of faction specific rules, stat changes and weapons which is much easier. I've seen this kind of choice happen already in certain homebrews for xenos in places like the horus heresy game which does not have official xeno rules.

>>97921183
It's not based at all, it's fucking retarded 5th ed beginner Dawn of War tourist cringe.

It's already been pointed out that most of those factions aren't nuGW bloat at all, they're OGs that go back to the first or second edition of the game. The people saying shit like "remove sisters remove grey knights I'm a based 3.5 player!" are lying fake grog faggots, because 3.5 had codex daemonhunters and codex witch hunters and both of them were based as fuck and everyone loved them back then. Genestealer Cults are kino of kinos that go back to Space Hulk.

>>97922474
This HAS to be bait.

>>97923367
>>reduces the amount of books needed to carry around to 1
This is also the dumbest, most fake and gay argument I have ever seen.

I've played 40k for coming up on 30 years very soon. Over those years I've frequented 6 different LGSs and gaming groups, and had dozens of long-time friends in this hobby (still friends with a handful of them even today as everyone has grown up and gone on to do other things).

Not one time, ever, in 30 fucking years, across 6 stores and like 50 fucking people, did anyone ever once complain in the real life world about the number of books you needed to carry. This is a hobby where you have to transport armies of models, whole tubs of them, and back in the day a lot of those were fucking metal too. Compared to that, adding one extra little stack of paper meant nothing. Nowhere have I ever seen anyone bitch about needing to carry books to play a fucking TABLETOP GAME than here online. It is the ultimate sign of a fake LARPing nomodels nogames faggot.

Not to mention that you rarely actually needed all the books anyways, because we had army builder and just printed lists that contained all the info, or later battlescribe. Or you had the one guy bring the main rulebook and everyone else just needed their codex and maybe a little supplement book or a white dwarf. And on top of that hobby stores usually have store copies of all this shit so even if you didn't bring your own you could just use that.

And anyone who actually plays/has played 40k would know all of this without me needing to point it out. So you are a fake faggot retard having opinions on a hobby you don't take part in and a game you don't play if you post this fucking nonsense. Worthless fuck.

>>97923531
It was the votanns wasn't it?

>>97923495
See
>>97921039

>>97923587
>screenshotting a random nobody fag post that means nothing
ok

>>97923711
>a random nobody fag
Like you?

>>97923367
>How bloated it has become
Bloat is an interesting and double sided topic. There is the usual “eventually everything will be ruined by bean countered cranking out slop that dilutes the product and worsens the experience” but i think in this case there is simply the consideration of man hours that takes the forefront. It takes a lot of work to make codecies done right. The more codecies you make with the same limited man hours the lousier they will be, or else the release schedule just becomes egregious. I think it’s this latter one that so many people are talking about here. Filler factions getting undeserving full fledged army books means the “core product” becomes impacted in a negative way. It’s not so much that people don’t actually want to ever see the filler factions on the table (except knights and custodes that is so fucking dumb). It’s just that when faced with the choice of better mainline and less variety, they will choose that.
This is especially true when it comes to homebrew, where likely you only have a single author working as hard as they can.

That said, I can speak from experience that souping all the imperial factions was what almost sank the game in 7th Ed and it should not be repeated. Having an inquisitorial storm trooper themed army that has maybe ONE deathwatch squad or a grey knight unit, from a thought out and balanced codex is the way to handle this. As they are guard and space marines should not be mixed because they just synergize and compliment one another too well to properly balance.

>>97923495
See above, I think you are being baited into missing the forest for the trees.

>>97923845
Absolutely agree on all points.
Imperial Soup is way too far. At minimum you need space marines and the normal humans separate. Space Marines having a squad of GKs as an Elite option to make your army a little more that way? Maybe if you're really permissive, 3 Custodes (left as an exercise for the designer on whether that's even worth it).Marks of the whatever you want to call it so your units are clearly Salamanders or Space Wolves? Also doable. Likewise for Guard. It's a guard army. But sometimes friends show up in a very limited role, and elites are the slot for that. An Inquisitor. A Callidus. A squad of sisters. A techpriest and his minions helping with your heavy support options. Can even use the precedent of "can only take 1" that some elites have and make them exclusive of each other.

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>>97920850
>Astra Militarum
>T'au
>Aeldari
>Drukhari

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>>97920820

>>97924165
Im sorry anon but your reference is also incorrect. Reddit’s text formatting will turn a single line break into this half-size uncomfortably close gap between paragraphs (because they do not auto indent as is proper for such a style). In order to properly space their paragraphs, users develop the habit of placing two line breaks between paragraphs. Which when accidentally done here through force of habit,


Look like this.

>>97924006
Why do those words make you make that face?

>>97924006
People who get buttblasted about "Astra Militarum" as a name are stupid. It's just their High Gothic title. The same way you've got Low Gothic Space Marines and High Gothic Adeptus Astartes, the Imperial Guard also have two, and this isn't even a new idea - it goes all the way back to Rogue Trader. In fact, back then they were called the Imperial Army in Low Gothic, and Militarum (or Militarium) in High Gothic, so it even predates the naming into Imperial Guard.

T'au is also fine, they've always had the apostrophe shit going on with most of the other words in their language even though originally it was just written Tau.

The other two, though, the Eldar shit, is fake and gay and I agree with mocking people who call them those things.

>>97924305
Nta, but you misinterpreted. He is insinuating that the previous poster looks like that because he used them. Its kinda like that scene from inglorious bastards where the spy holds up the english 3 fingers instead of the german, outing himself. The previous poster was pretending to be of character and authority, and inadvertently outed themselves by using terms that only one without character and authority would use. Sort of a "hello fellow humans" moment.

>>97924858
You don't go to /40kg/ huh? No idea what that image is huh? Same as the sharty poster huh?

>>97899496
sounds like the megalomania that people get with mods.
modolomania if you will
for the /v/ minded, Mental omega feels like that to me, the point where it losses what makes RA readable.
It's definitely an beginner's trap to get so pulled into the details you lose the point. but that is where the richest deposits of SOVL is

>>97924165
different anon but that post was so fucking retarded in it's formatting that it deserves to be called plebbit.

>>97924397
>it dates back RT
i don't think RT is a good source for that but i also don't believe that's true as i can't find it in my copy of RT. they refer to them as "the army." remember marines were the professional fighting force and not superhumans, so the guard is more of a PDF force in RT. perhaps they added it in later books i don't have for the era, I play orks.

That said, 1. even if it were true, it's clear that they were looking for a copywrite friendly name. that's undeniable. 2. they have the name Munitorium, as far as i remember that's been the guard's name, they're a subset of the Departmento Munitorium, been that way since 3rd, it's literally what they're under we could just use that.

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>>97925242
I looked around a bit and you're right, it's not in the Rogue Trader core book, but I found this early mention in Chapter Approved, and there are a few more snippets like this scattered around throughout the RT era material, probably including some of the Epic stuff, and maybe in 2nd edition too although I cannot remember.

In any case it wasn't used often, but my point was just that there is some precedent and given that nobody freaks out about Marines being referred to also as Astartes there's no reason they should do that with the Guard also occasionally being called the Militarum in formal parlance.

>even if it were true, it's clear that they were looking for a copywrite friendly name. that's undeniable.
True, but given that there's precedence I think this one just makes sense and it's not bothersome. It isn't like some of the insane, egregious shit they did with Age of Sigmar.

>2. they have the name Munitorium, as far as i remember that's been the guard's name, they're a subset of the Departmento Munitorium
The Departmento Munitorum is effectively the Imperium's equivalent to the "Department of Defense" in American Government, it is technically the administrative body in charge of them but you wouldn't refer to the fighting forces by that name, no one says "Department of Defense forces have landed in Iraq" or whatever, they say "the Army/the Marines", the actual branch of fighting men.

In the real world we don't really HAVE an equivalent for the terms Astartes/Militarum because we don't have High and Low dialects of our language the way the Imperium does. Other, non-english speaking nations might have such a thing.

>>97925694
i think that looks like an early name for the DM

the prime issue is that it's something you can feel, if you're sensitive to being manipulated/marketed to you'll have a stronger reaction. i fucking hate it because i can see slime behind it, even if it uses an obscure old name. take the solar aux, nobody complains there and it's literally the same name when you think about it, also the imperuim is an ancient beast. though personally i think it sounds better and can be contracted much easier. fucking ASSMILL
>AoS
don't fucking get me started there we had DWAI for dwarves the entire time Duardan fucking bullshit man. orruk, orgyrs (TM)

i personally think space army to be goofy and should have been consigned that time period. a middle ground would have been taking something that aligned with the guard as a naming convention and tweaking it to be latin.

>>97925694
Sorry early post >>97925780
there's a feeling imperial guard that isn't i think communicated there, but if worse comes to worse maybe re-using solar aux isn't a bad idea, the imperuim is a stubborn and ancient beast likely clinging to it's older conventions.

>>97925797
>>97925780
I get what you're saying. I don't think Solar Auxilia is appropriate in the 40k era because the Legions are long shattered and marines are far reduced in number to what they were in the Great Crusade, so the Guard are now the main fighting force and therefore "Auxilia" doesn't work.

Astra Militarum is fine. They could have just done Militarum which would have sounded better, imo, but the point is that they mainly go out and attack other planets, so the Astra part signifies that and separates them from the PDF who just stay back and defend.

>>97925797
>>97925780
That would be the same as calling the guard the "Krieg siege artillery regiment". The SA aren't even THE imperial army in 30k, just 20-25% of it.

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>>97918936
Space Marines were never fearless, just had good leadership with rerolls. Same with Chaos.

Tyranids were never fearless, they relied on synapse and without it became little more than animals

Eldar and Dark Eldar were never fearless

Necrons were never fearless, without direct supervision of a sentient Noble they were far less effective. They had a high leadership but weren't fearless, as flashes of their life would return when close enough to death

Orks were never fearless, they get panicked when separated from the group and run so they can fight again

There was never a single, completely fearless faction. All had reason to become suppressed and withdraw if they were afraid or simply thought it was a better course of action than they were commanded.

Newfag retards didn't understand this and it drove them insane because youtube videos told them everyone in the setting always fights to the last man. So they dumbed down the game, removed all variability, and turned it into a tabletop MOBA appealing to pic related

>>97927840
>fearless
Sorry what I meant was that 40k doesn’t have the morale complexity beyond the level of “am I fearless or not” it did have target priority for a while, but it never emulated a senior officer giving junior officers giving squads orders. What that other anon was saying was that that model wouldn’t make sense for armies other than IG and maybe Tau. Space marines, orks, eldar, and dark eldar fight as if all individual; there is no micromanaging. Tyranids have a have the hive mind link granting them perfect telecommunication, necrons might be assumed to be similar?

>>97928783
Space Marines have command structure, what do you think Sergeant, Lieutenants and Captains are for? They are very capable of operating on their own, which should be represented in any Chain of Command conversion, but they definitely obey a leadership

Orks literally follow the biggest guy. Boyz follow Nobz who follow Bosses

Eldar and Dark Eldar all have squad leaders who listen to their Autarchs/Farseers/Archons etc.

The Tyranid Hive Mind relies on synapse creatures wrangling the lesser creatures. Without synapse creatures lesser gaunts revert to their animalistic instincts

Necron have a Nodal command structure, lower units take orders with limited initiative but rely on Nobles to carry out anything complex

40k used to force actual coherent forces with the HQ + 2 Troops rule, which meant every army was at least around a half platoon of infantry with a leader. Of course this was also ripped out to appeal to newfag retards.

>>97928817
>what do you think the sergeant’s and captains are for?
For being bad ass, they certainly don’t spend their time giving out orders…. Also space marines do not historically have lieutenants at all, that’s post 8th ed so I don’t care.
Again follow != giving orders on the battlefield. Waaagh! Is about the closest thing orks have toward giving orders.
Eldar *might* listen to their autarch if he bothers; his aspect warriors are trusted to be autonomous. Dark eldar absolutely do not give a shit about what the archon has to say once the blood starts flowing.
The hive mind IS the synapse creatures. There isn’t some central hive mind blob like in StarCraft, it is a distributed intelligence mesh that is made up of all the tyranids. I think the existing synapse rules from the time worked great to model this.

>>97928960
Not him but honestly you just seem like you're being obtuse.
>ok they have officers, but not really!!!!
Chain of Command already has things like this with the Germans all being capable of acting one rank above. Eg Space Marines can activate a full squad even with 1 command point to replicate their intense training. Literally what would be the issue?
Dark Eldar are a mafia and operate on mafia rules. Some goon Kabalite warrior isn't going to defy Asrubdael fucking Vect unless he wants to spend the rest of his miserable existence as a living flesh toilet after getting hacked apart by a homunculus. You could have a rule like "After routing a squad, Dark Eldar must roll or the squad will get paralysed for d6 turns as the squad fucks off to torture the wounded instead of fighting."

Every goddamn faction in the game I'm pretty sure has an equivalent of an NCO for every squad, I literally cannot see the issue. I think there's enough factions on every end of the discipline scale to be able to have some variety.

>>97929075
The only factions without NCOs are Necrons and Tyranids, but both factions have lore reasons why they rely on lower ranked independent officers to wrangle the unthinking mobs.

>>97928960
>The hive mind IS the synapse creatures. There isn’t some central hive mind blob like in StarCraft, it is a distributed intelligence mesh that is made up of all the tyranids. I think the existing synapse rules from the time worked great to model this.
The old Synapse rules had each Synapse creature project a bubble of control around them that forced the lesser creatures to obey. Almost like a Chain through which Commands would flow through. Hm, interesting
>Marine officers never give orders
>Orks only yell WAAGH and nothing else
Kek retarded secondary
>Eldar might listen to their Autarch
Sounds like the Autarch might struggle issues orders to his troops, if only if there was a relevant game that focused on Command friction...
>Dark eldar absolutely do not give a shit about what the archon has to say once the blood starts flowing.
Sounds like a good way to get executed by your Archon