Errata Edition>>IF YOU ARE ASKING A QUESTION, PLEASE SPECIFY WHICH GAME YOU'RE PLAYING<<Previous Thread: >>97802804/pfg/ (pathfinder 1e) link repository: https://pastebin.com/RSt0rF0T/p2g/ (pathfinder 2e) link repository: https://pastebin.com/1zySxwm3/sfg/ (starfinder) link repository: https://pastebin.com/5yp9s2U3>>CHECK THE SHARE THREAD FOR MATERIALS<<TQ: What role in a group are you most drawn to? What would you like to try out?
Starfinder looks fun
>>97886070Post Paizo goblins
1ewithout spells, how do you make a flying creature fall to the ground? and I mean actually flying where a net doesn't reach, something like 60ft away pelting arrows/magic bolts at you
How do we feel about Pathfinder 2e's hyper-campaign-specific archetypes like the Pure Legion Enforcer?https://2e.aonprd.com/Archetypes.aspx?ID=377The Pure Legion Enforcer archetype has two main uses cases. One, you really, really want to make the most of Treat Wounds and Battle Medicine. Two, the campaign is, whatsoever, stuffed to the brim with divine spellcasters (e.g. a significant number of fiends and undead), and you really want to stick it to them.The first of these two use cases is not particularly campaign-specific. Take Pure Legion Enforcer Dedication, pick up the Medicine skill feats, maybe into Medic Dedication afterwards.The second, on the other hand, takes a very specific type of campaign to pay off. Sure, a successful use of No Gods, Only Mortals! feels great when it works... but unless the majority of encounters are against divine spellcasters, it is just warming the metaphorical bench as a 10th-level class feat. The same goes for Repelling Enforcer at 18th.What do you think of this type of archetype design?Also, the 20th-level capstone class feat, Mortal Possibility, is shamefully underwhelming.>You made yourself into a paragon of mortality and prove that deities aren't needed to achieve greatness. Choose a skill you have master proficiency in. You become legendary in that skill. In addition, you gain a skill feat of your choice for that skill. The first time each day that you succeed at a skill check with that skill, you gain a +3 status bonus to your next skill check of any skill within the next hour.This would be good as a maybe 16th-level class feat. 20th, though? No.
>>97886223Tanglefoot arrows.
>>97886223Tanglefoot Bags and ordinary throwing nets immediately spring to mind.Or if you're really desperate to do it at extreme ranges then use Tangleshot Arrows and just keep pelting it until it fails a Reflex eventually.https://www.d20pfsrd.com/equipment/weapons/weapon-descriptions/ammunition/ammunition-bow-arrows-common/ammunition-bow-arrow-tanglefoot/Potentially brow beat your GM into allowing the save DC to be incremented with repeated hits from the arrows (like injury poisons for example) continuing to apply more glue to the target.Or even convince your GM that flying creatures who are blinded might try to land or accidentally descend, and use Smoke Arrows:https://www.d20pfsrd.com/equipment/weapons/weapon-descriptions/ammunition/ammunition-bow-arrows-common/ammunition-bow-arrows-smokescreen/Or use various kinds of called shots (Ultimate Combat variant / optional rule subsystem) to injure the victim in a way that would force it to descend:https://www.d20pfsrd.com/gamemastering/other-rules/called-shots/
>>97886223>>97886310Also, dealing any damage to a flying creature forces a fly check, and knocking them prone/reducing speed to 0 in any way.
>>97886257>Let's gate existing skill feats behind a shit dedicationAlso the resistance and thorns feats should be gained earlier.
>>97886327I'm not sure there are any RAW ways to inflict Prone from 60 feet away without spells... except for Ranged Trip? https://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/ranged-trip-combat-targeting/There are probably a few obscure magical items that create gusts of wind or something like that, but the save DC will probably be as low as a tangle foot bag.
>>97886327>and knocking them prone/reducing speed to 0 in any waylike how?
>>97886405I presume you mean Godless and Mortal HealingThey're not gated, if they were, they would have had archetype trait and dedication as prerequisite. They don't, so you can just take them as is. I think they're included in the archetype so they count as two feats to get you out of it. Honestly neat idea, they should do that more
>>97886257At least the feats do something and that something is actually tied to the flavour.Which is more than I expect from Paizo.
Necromancer with witch archetype for familiar focus, cackle and eventually ceremonial knife. Good idea? Bad idea? Idea I should wait until necromancer is released fully to try?
2eQuestion that came up during my last session of TotT. So we were fighting an Oathsworn and it hit me but we have a redemption champion and they were able use their champion reaction to block all of the damage. We ruled that I would still take the persistent bleed damage. Is that the correct ruling or should me not taking any damage from the attack also negate the persistent bleed?
>>97886541see>>97886414
>>97887003Depends on the ability, but I would rule that no instant damage taken = no persistent damage.
>nobody invests on climbing and swimming but me>always struggling to climb what gm puts in front of me>the moment I become good at it he just makes a 10 hour flight token for like 200 gp a pop (nothing money) so all my ranks and feat mean nothing Hate my gm and this game sometimes
>>97887651Reminds me I was playing a large character and found myself having to Squeeze through every environment we encountered. I got the Contortionist feat to Squeeze at full speed, and have literally never had to Squeeze again. I mean, I guess the feat solved the problem either way. I'm tempted to retrain out of it to see if squeezing comes back.
>>97886852Definitely wait until Necro is out before trying this unless of course your GM is chill enough to either let you keep using the playtest rules (if you think theyre better) or id you think the campaign will end before necro is fully released.With that said, I think it should work fine even with playtest rules. Just make sure to pick a non occult patron to expand your spell list through scrolls and such.
>>97887003Unfortunately there arent any rules for that kind of situation except for injury poisons, where if the attack fails to deal damage the poison is not applied. I think its fair to rule if an attack deals no damage then riders should not apply but its something your group will have to rule on one way or another.
https://2e.aonsrd.com/feats/1764-electromagnetic-hoverAm I missing something or this feat does fucking nothing? Hover already lets you ignore difficult or hazardous terrain, why the fuck would you pick this other that as feat tax for Fly at level 9?
>>97888734There's a certain amount of utility in being able to avoid ground-based stuff without needing to use a Fly action every round, but that's a pretty situational benefit, and once you get the level 9 version it basically replaces this in 90% of situations you care about. I'd call it mostly a feat tax unless I'm missing something too.I kind of get the same vibe I do with the PF2e Hungerseed Oni Form feats. You get a super wimpy version at level 1 that only really serves a roleplay purpose in letting you transform into your Oni shape out of combat, then you get the "real" version of the feat at 9.
>>97888815>unless I'm missing something too.Yes, Urogs already have a natural hover speed, this feat does nothing for them, forget to say that
2e. So, for a dual-class game I'm building a Magus/Wizard, and decided to give Runelord a try with the free archetype. I want to do Laughing Shadow magus for fluff reasons, but hit a bit of a stumbling block: namely, pretty much none of the Runelord weapon options are both finesse and one-handed, which is what Laughing Shadow is kinda built around.Do I......bite the bullet and spent a racial feat on Unconventional Weaponry so I can use the Filcher's Fork, even though it's got d4 damage and requires hanging out with halflings?...bite the bullet and just use a 2-handed weapon like the Dancer's Spear, even though that means foregoing Distracting Spellstrike and +2 damage from Cascade? This *would* give me reach, too....bite the bullet and use a non-finesse spear? It would mean rejiggering my build quite a bit, focusing on medium armor over light, but I'm not as attached to being a DEX build as I am to Laughing Shadow, even if high-STR low-DEX doesn't make as much thematic sense for it.
>>97888843Oh wow. Yeah as far as I can tell that feat's just a replication of the Hover trait. I'm baffled too.
>>97886257I dunno, if you use free archetype ability that makes three skills at legendary instead of only two, a free skill feat for the skill, and a free +3 bonus usable for an hour later. That's a potent abilityBut what do I know, I only run games for people.
>>97888849Magus can theoretically get around a lot of the problems with Filcher's Fork because spellstrikes give the spell attack damage, so the d4 of the weapon won't be as awful as it would be on some other builds.
>>97888849Filcher's fork is the way to go, because the bonus damage from Arcane Cascade helps the1d4.
>>97888849As the other anons said, filcher's fork is the play. Not just for the Cascade damage, but also Backstabber gives you +1 damage vs off-guard, which you'll face a lot of with Distracting Spellstrike. That more than makes up for the lower damage die. Not only that, it's even a thrown weapon, so if you tossed some big 2-action wizard spell, you can use your third action to throw it for decent supplementary damage. All that's more than worth a racial feat.That said, I do sympathize at not wanting your epic runelord to use a halfling weapon. Maybe ask your GM to refluff it as an ancient Thassilonian javelin-wand or something.
>>97888887>if you use free archetypeIt would generally be stronger to use free archetype to pick up a high-value 10th-level class feat from somewhere, like the fighter's Agile Grace or Tactical Reflexes.
Planning to run the Spore War adventure for my group. Would it be too chudly to race swap queen telandia's husband/fiance? I just dont care for it
>>97889408Its your game, do whatever you want. In my Golarion shes married to a chad elf who was part of the group that completed the Second Darkness AP.
>>97889445i mean yeah, "beautiful elf queen who is interested in opening up to the outside world and is looking for a husband" is pretty much tailor-made to be part of a high level PC's postgame happily-ever-after. Of course, modern Paizo is too pozzed to allow such a thing, so they made her marry some random black guy.
Got in like right as the last thread was about to expire, so I'll ask again here.Looking for class ideas (1e) to make a character with some sort of flexible mutation powers. Shifter seems like the natural choice, but we all know what problems come with Shifter.I'm not dead set on animals for shifting forms, being able to warp into some sort of patchwork protean freak creature a la pic related is the idea I'm looking for.If there are some 3pp options that would help me bring it to life, my DM is usually open to those. I've seen the Legendary Shifter and the Protean Mutant archetype seems kind of right, anyone have any experience the Legendary Shifter?
1eHow this part works? from 10th rank signature skill on Acrobatics:With a successful DC 20 Acrobatics check, you treat an unintentional fall as 10 feet shorter plus 10 feet for every 10 by which you exceed the DC, and treat an intentional fall as 10 feet shorter for every 10 by which you exceed the DC.Normally is:A DC 15 Acrobatics check allows the character to avoid any damage from the first 10 feet fallen and converts any damage from the second 10 feet to nonlethal damage
>>97890864Make check, reduce fall damage based how well you did in the check.Not that complex.
Pf2e threads should be in non-traditional games
>>97890955My question is why the feat asks for higher DC when with normal rules on a lower DC you do the same?DC15 you reduce the first 10ftWith the feat and 10 ranks on a DC20 you also reduce the first 10ftSeems weird
>>97890973Sorry, on a dc30 if you were jumping (an intentional action), so is even worse than I thought? over dc15
>>97890973You can stack both effects by separate checks.
>>97890973I think theres some confusion here.You can normally only try the DC 15 check to reduce damage if you intentionally jump, there is no Acrobatics check to reduce damage from an unintentional fall. So the Skill Unlock is letting you reduce something you normally can't.As for intentional falls, the DC 15 check doesnt scale while this does, but you can still try the DC 15 check if you dont feel youre going to benefit from the unlock.
>>97886070I'm usually stuck as the tank/support and/or face of the group (Pathfinder 2e in this case). I don't mind it, just most groups I play with don't take initiative as often to move the game along or can drag out rp a bit too long. But when they do take initiative, I'm glad to be able to take a back seat on talking to npcs and occasionally chime in with important details since I usually take abridged notes. I would like to try out more spellcasters since when I picked up pf2e about a year or so ago after the shitshow DnD 2024 turned out to be, I was very hesitant to give them a try over the martials, but after seeing other players showcase what they can do, they peaked my interested. Same deal with the sorta outlier classes like Investigator or Kineticist (looking forward to when the revised version gets released with Necromancer later this year)
PF2e. My players have figured out that a 4 Fighter party using Strike every action actually solves most encounters. Now they're telling me they all want to reroll to Fighters and I'm afraid they'll just bully all my encounters.How can I stop this?
>97891718Throw something at them with high AC or resistance to physical damage. Worked for me when I threw a grick at my lower level party and their barbarian couldn't one or two shot it like a lot of the things in the dungeon. Also doesn't hurt to sprinkle on an extra 10 or so hp to creatures so they don't feel like wet toilet paper being run through by a chainsaw of martials and something that can either reactive strike them back or has some sort of regeneration that they can't solve just by hitting it really hard like a troll without that silver bullet from fire/electric damage.
>>97891268My recommendation would be Witch or Animist. They are the best full casters imo and both provide plenty of unique and powerful options. For something a little less overwhelming, Sorcerer would be fine too.>>97891718Assuming this isn't bait, just toss in a dude that can inflict Confusion or Control against them. Bravery doesn't work on non-Fear Will saves and what goes around comes around.Or just stomp your GM foot and say no class stacking.
>>97891897Will that actually work? I think Confusion is actually worse for casters. Fighters can just arrange themselves such that their only valid target is the enemy, and then they're doing what they want to do anyway.
>>97891952This works less when there's 4 of them all competing for space and safety range. Unless they are all ranged (which would still make them all valid targets to each other), the only real safe option in such a scenario is to fight a foe one at a time, which negates much of what makes Fighter so omnipresent in every encounter. Sure, you don't need Abomination Vaults' level of claustrophobia, but many monsters can easily outrange, outstack, or penalize your scenario with proper room space. Just don't give them a literal white room and you should have enough counterplay to at least give them a challenge, if not cramp on their obvious anti-GM fuckery with a Control spell.Command, Laughing Fit, Slow, Lose the Path, Wall of Stone, and Synesthesia are all valid options too.
>>97891952How would fighters (or just martials) arrange themselves though? Confused states target selection is completely random and the GM can just make you Stride to get into attack range or swap to a ranged weapon to shoot someone.
>>97891989>>97892001Fair enough. So the enemy needs to be able inflict Confused, but it also needs to be tough enough to survive what will probably be at least couple Fatal crits on their first turn. The players are level 6 so their hypothetical fighters will actually have pretty good Will saves. So it also needs DCs high enough to overcome that.Is there anything that would work for this or will I need custom monsters?
>>97892052You don't need just *one* enemy. A good combination of mooks and spellcasters can easily work to provide challenge. Hell, an ooze, a ghost, or other crit immune enemies is enough to make them reconsider their 4 Fighter Fiesta plan while a spellcaster hits the heart of the party. It is easy for /pgg/ and associates to get all caught up in the white-room issues of 2e. I think, as a GM, it is good to learn how to break that mindset in even the most munchkin-y of people if you want to remind everyone that it isn't about winning as it is having fun together. But if you don't think your encounter building/AoN-troving skills are up to snuff, then the best solution is to simply ask if they doing this to have fun or to just say "god I wish I was playing another game"?
>>97890132Not sure about 3pp, but shifter could still work. Fey Shifter allows you to transform into a large variety of gross creatures, grow wings on them with Fey Aspect, and add another mouth with Mutated Shape (the feat). With some multiclassing you could also add claws, a bite, or a serpentine tail as class features can be added to polymorph effects. I think you can get out most of what you need with just 6 levels of Fey Shifter if you take Shaping Focus. I'd also consider Startling Shapechanger with the Intimidate skill unlock to build into the theme. You transform into a hideous abomination and the enemies who witness it lose their nerve and runs away screaming.
2eWhere the fuck can I see the rules for Automatic Rune Progression? I don't want to make an account on foundry just too see what the fucking variant rule do
1eLooking for cheap (9000 or below) magic items that grant stats that don't use head or belt slot and that grant resistances that don't use cape slot
>>97893773Ioun StonesOtherwise you will need to either craft custom items, or use questionable imports from dnd3.5
>>97893849I meant stuff like that snake skin shirt that gives you +2 dex and +2AC as a shirt leaving belt slot free.
>>97893261It's just ABP minus skill bonuses. Hints in the name: it's just fundamental +1 and basic striking runes.
>>97893998No, it isn't. ABP removes all item bonuses, including alchemist items, kineticist shit, etc, while ARP leave all that shit in, supposedly. I want to check the exact wording and the table that shows when you get things.
>>97893986Resistance to saves is valuable because there are no spells to replace them (other than protection from evil). But there are level 2 spells that give +4 enhancement to any ability score and barkskin for natural armor. Shield of faith is a level 1 spell slot. At a given character level, you cannot beat the bonus these spells provide with your WBL if you equipped an item with those bonuses. It's only very late game that you can afford better.So buying equipment to give you enhancement to ability scores, natural armor or deflection are literally just wasted money. Noobs see the bonus and thing they have to have it. Veterans know better. It's vastly, vastly better for your character to buy equipment that helps to address a weakness or expand their toolkit in some way. Static bonuses to your numbers just do not fucking matter until you're past level 12 and only about 8% of all groups ever make it that high.If you're running into an issue where you are realizing that you shouldn't have dumped your con or something like that, the correct solution is to not fucking dump stats like that in the future. If you're rolling for your stats, then your GM is supposed to be taking that into account... by not taking it into account. If you're rolling for your stats the entire point is that there's a risk of rolling bad stats so you have to deal with that on your end. If the GM accommodates whatever you have, then there's no risk so there's no point in keeping track of stats in the first place.
>>97894246I'm asking for items that grant the usual big6 that go into another slots exactly for that, to have the good slots free for stuff that rather give us immunities or similar. And because there's a 9k cap on what we can buy we basically have 150k just laying there unused
>>97894246Mate, I'm not gonna spend four lv 2 spell slots in a day on Bull's Strength just because your bum ass fighter is too cheap to buy a belt. >>97894311Yes, there are ioun stones for that. 8k for a +2 in each stat.
>>97892212yeah, you should ensure that everyone has fun, for example by designing absurd encounters specifically to punish their party composition. you fucking retard.
>>97892052Fighters have below average saves compared to most other classes so throw some spellcasters at them. This will be their face when you also throw a 10ft up flying enemy at them. I actually cant imagine my abom vaults party making their way through the dungeon without a cleric or wizard.
1e A question for DMs, what would you say if one of your players asked to play at least two kobolds for a campaign?Like say two at minimum, three if you try to be greedy with Leadership.Aside from loot problems, what kind of concessions would you ask for a green card?>>97893773>>97893986If you want to try it, ask about magical tattoos.
>>97895771>Aside from loot problems, what kind of concessions would you ask for a green card?Shared action economy between characters, and maybe shared HP pool.Also if they want to take leadership, you should remind them that the cohort is created and controlled by the GM, not by them.
So I'm a newer GM (mainly just ran a bit of Delta Green and little Lancer) and I was looking at picking up Pathfinder 2e on Foundry and running it for a bit to give out forever GM a bit of a break. Is there anything to recommend me, like a good starter adventure or maybe just some tips? I've never really interacted with PF2e, only a bit of 1e and even then that game fell apart before that group could really start.
>>97895879As always, the Beginner's Box is a great way to begin looking into the game. There's even a new one coming, so you have the choice between two different starting locations and campaigns.https://2e.aonprd.com/You can also look into the SRD itself to see what you like about the system.
>>97895876How much of a handicap would it be playing, quote, 'a fucking kobold', unquote, by itself?Would two really offset that?He said he wants to play a Swarm Fighter, and they look kind of crappy.
>>97895969>How much of a handicap would it be playing, quote, 'a fucking kobold', unquote, by itself?Depends. Kobold ability score penalties are a big minus, but kobolts do have unique and powerful abilities that easily offset those if you know the game.
>>97895969>How much of a handicap would it be playing, quote, 'a fucking kobold', unquote, by itself?Depends. Ability score penalty is quite big but can be build around, whereas kobolds do have powerful unique abilities and traits such as Smoke Sight that alone are worth playing kobold regardless of penalties.>Would two really offset that?Extra controlled character on battlefield is single most powerful thing in the whole game, especially if it does not have innate constraints on what it can do like animal companions have.>He said he wants to play a Swarm Fighter, and they look kind of crappy.It is kinda mediocre, though Share Space and Strike the Underbelly can be quite powerful if you know how to use them.
>>97895289>Fighters have below average saves compared to most other classesBullshit.
Gauntlet bow on drifter gunslinger? Am I being stupid or not?
2EI want to play the typical commissar with sword (mace) and pistol, I’m going to play commander, but it seems like it isn’t built for dual-wielding, we’re going to use starfinder firearms because the 2e ones suck, but still not sure how reloading is going to work with two full hands. Also, for aesthetic, I really don’t like putting the banner on a small one-handed weapon, I’m thinking of picking Plant Banner just for looks, but then that’s a whole other problem with feats.Any suggestions?
>>978957712nd edition just added "3 Kobolds in a Trench Coat" ancestryhttps://2e.aonprd.com/Heritages.aspx?ID=433
So I'm thinking of doing an evil campaign in a custom setting for PF2E. I have access to the monster book 1 right now, will be getting 2 later. How should I handle do gooder parties. Scour the books for a low level of that class and use those abilities on a generic splat page. Or could I just roll characters for them to go up against in pathbuilder and use that. How OP would the second option be, I think that would be more fitting for a boss or his LT.
>>97896324Both work. Monsters built with PC rules are, kind of definitionally, about an equivalent-level threat as a monster of that level. The main reason it's not a best practice is just because building a PC is a lot more work than playing mad-libs and filling in the stats with the creature-builder rules, especially for an enemy you might only use for a single combat. It won't break anything though, and is fun to do sometimes. A party of NPCs built this way is about the same threat level as a handful of monsters of the same level, and you can just plug them into the encounter builder rules for XP and stuff. The player-built NPCs will have lower numbers than most equivalent-level creatures will, since the creature-builder rules kind of take as a given that a particular enemy will only have a couple of unique things to do and so they tune up their math a little bit to make up for it. Player-built NPCs will have worse base stats but more gimmicks.If you're looking to file ff the serial numbers off an existing statblock, there's also a couple hundred purpose-built NPCs in NPC Core, which you can find the full stats for on AoN: https://2e.aonprd.com/Creatures.aspx?include-sources=npc%20core&sort=level-asc&display=table&columns=creature_family+source+rarity+size+trait+level+hp+ac+fortitude+reflex+will+perception+sense+speed
>>97896378Thanks, First time I DMed PF2e I used a player built oracle for the final boss, but they found all the weakness mcguffins and I rolled like shit all fight so it felt a little one sided. Later on on another I had a goblin, made to be the predator, hunting them and it just JOBBED one player suddenly and I was like eesh.Thanks for the advice though, I'm still not sure if the group will want PF2e or SF2e for the next game we do, I'm just hoping it's pathfinder, because I like it more, at least more then SF1st edition.
>>97896147It works pretty well, yeah. It saves you from needing Dual Weapon Reload. Drifter's Reload lets you Interact to reload a Capacity weapon just fine.The only issue you could run into is after firing your 4 shots on whether your DM allows the free hand the bow is strapped to to fulfill the free hand requirement to reload your bow. If they don't you'll just need to get Dual Weapon Reload, though if your GM uses ABP you can just carry backup gauntlet bows and use Swap to effectively reload all 4 shots at once (without ABP this doesnt work due to runes).Just remember to use a combination weapon for your melee, the pistol-rapier and the triggerbrand are both solid options.
>>97894648Your spell slots aren't useful for anything else, but also the fighter does not need four more points of strength. He needs more skill points. PCs deal roughly five to six times as much damage as they actually need to. There just is no situation in a which a fighter needs ability scores to do his job. It's the one area of character building that fighters are uniquely situated to be able to ignore it.So, sure, tell the fighter to fuck off. Don't buff him. Ignore everyone in the party but yourself. You're the only person who matters in the entire universe. Your petty low level spell slots are just too fucking valuable to spend on literally anything. It's more important that you just have them. Not even any spells prepared in those slots, just that you have them fresh and ready.Let me know if any of this went over your head.
>>97894311The general rule for "off-slot" bonuses is that they cost double.https://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/magic-item-creation/But the advice is basically that you shouldn't fight it. There's a lot of magic items in the game. Situational immunities are something you should find out about ahead of time and then equip your immunity item if you have it when you need it. But you really probably should not have it because that trivializes the challenge and the GM is fully in their rights to just prevent you knowing that there's a lot of poison coming up or something like that. The actual slots that the "big 6" go in do not actually have a lot of competition, and the "big 6" are highly overrated.So I'm repeating the advice you got earlier. Don't worry so much about it. A cloak of resistance is the only one that's actually important. The others aren't. You don't have to minmax so hard, anon. Don't be a munchkin.Basically, you are just not aware of what your problem is. You want to have the interesting items because they're interesting. But you want to have everything else, too. You can't just have everything anon. You have to confront what you actually want. You have to choose and prioritize. That's up to you. You have to do that. You have to make choices. That's how games work. You make choices. That's called "playing the game".I give you permission to ignore the big 6. You are free. You can put some other item in that slot and it's perfectly ok. Now go and enjoy your life, anon.
>>97896130Just checked, and dear god, Fighters aren't horrible but they're near ass in saves. They only get up to expert in Fort & Will, and master in Reflex. SORCERERS get master in will, and expert in Reflex & Fort. Even if the exact saves aren't one-to-one, Fighter progression is saves is equivalent to a damn spellcaster.>>97892052Just smack e'm with save based shit. Unless they've all been stacking wis, fort, and dex like addicts looking for their next fix (and even then, multiple sources of 'make a save or kill yourself now' in one round from a bunch of casters should be pure pain) they'll be wailing for their mamas in no time.Eh, if they're really good players, go the ambush route: have the fight take place in a large cave, have the spellcasters and other enemies positioned high up along a stone path leading upwards with the players arriving at the bottom. Have melee units down there and along the path, and ranged units up above alongside spellcasters. Dump some specialties in there like persistent damage and haunts in there too.
>>97896805>Fighters aren't horrible but they're near ass in saves. They only get up to expert in Fort & Will, and master in Reflex.No, bullshit, they get master Fort and crit success Fort.
>>97896890Oh, missed it. They get the fort mastery at 9 and reflex mastery 15, missed one over the other.So fighter's are 1 save above spellcasters. Go figure. Thank god frankly. Anything less and they'd be toast.Original plan should still work. Swamp e'm with saves and enough failures will make it through to give them a challenge...although I would measure it out. That whole 'when you succeed you get a crit success instead' clause is in master for a reason. They start failing too much, I doubt they'll have the tools to make up for it.But hey, they're Fighters! It's taken a good slice of a whole thread just to come up with ideas to challenge them! They'll be fine no matter what happens. +2 to attack is...yeah, I agree with the last guy. Throw some flying enemies on top of that whole circus I suggested above. Ain't like they'll even feel anything less.
So I understand that mechanically Paizo decided to make players buy ancestry feats to do things npcs can do better in 2e. But how do you justify it narratively? Like my group is currently playing through Triumph of the Tusk and it seems really weird that my orc can only use orc ferocity once a day but ever orc that we run into can do it once a turn. Shit is even worse for ancestries that have the ability to fly. It just makes zero sense from a story perspective.
>>97897202Don't use 2e. Use 1e instead. There's just zero reason to use any version of 2e.
>>97897202You just differently specialized to the average orc. Yeah, you can't fight like a suicidal maniac but you also aren't a suicidal maniac. You know better than to keep fighting until your body quits on you.The kind of people that are willing to be adventurers, the type that would beat the adventure, are not the average person of that race.
>>97896693What’s the reasoning on a combination weapon? Besides more attack options being better.
>>97897549Nevermind, I’m blind and only just saw that they’d let me use firearm proficiency for melee.
>>97896737>You don't have to minmax so hard, anon. Don't be a munchkin.except that's literally the opposite of what my GM told us to do
>>97897789Sure, Jan. Sure.
>>97897591Yeah. Also I forgot Reloading Strike lets you ignore the free hand requirement to Reload so all my words on whether you need Dual Weapon Reload or not are kind of wasted, you don't need it and the whole thing works out of the box just fine.
>>97896718Anon, have you actually played the RPG or did you just play the owlcat game? Your complete ignorance about resource management makes sense if you this is the case. When playing the RPG you don't have perfect knowledge of when and what you're fighting, or the ability to savescum, and you can't just replenish your spells after every fight. They are finite and valuable.>Your spell slots aren't useful for anything else, but also the fighter does not need four more points of strength. He needs more skill points. Sir, this is 1e. Control spells are king, utility spells allows you to skip entire encounters, and there are way better buffs to cast than +3 AC to a singular player with a min/level duration. Also, are you implying that someone casts a spell on the fighter so they get more skill points or is that just a non sequitur? Because that doesn't work. You NEED the headband. >PCs deal roughly five to six times as much damage as they actually need to.Cmon man.
>>97896805Fighter has some of the best saving throw progression in the game, particularly when you're comparing to Sorceror of all things. So tired of people that DO NOT PLAY trying to give "advice" in these threads.That said, anon was clearly doing a "clever" mockery of the game that is not clever and that is also tiresome.
>>97896933Also just pointing out that you have walked into an obvious trap and illustrated that inundating with saving throws will not uniquely challenge an all-fighter party and in fact they're actually stronger against itAnon said his definitely real party is 6th level. A flying enemy is not any kind of challenge to 6th level fighters just because it flies. If you've had this experience, your players are retarded or much more likely, not actually engaged with the game.
I have discovered that a skilled human mastermind rogue can be trained in every non-lore skill in the game at level 1Is there any point to this? Unclear!
>>97899554lol I guess you've found a really expensive way to get an upgraded version of Clever Improviser four levels early. Unfortunately there's some anti-synergy with Incredible Improvisation at 9, although that's no huge loss.
>>97896212Funny enough, I bought him that miniature for his birthday.>>97896097I've been thinking it over, and I'm considering giving him the go-ahead with one or two of two or three handicaps:>Slower xp progression.>Reconfigure the Swarm Fighter to a d8 chassis.>If he tries the Leadership thing, both of them have to take it for the right to assume control.The loot thing is obvious, he won't get two/three shares of money.Do you think any of these would be a fair restriction?
2emy animal barbarian is receiving a free 15th level or lower common magic item of my choosing, should i just use that to change his astral rune out for a greater elemental damage rune or is there something more important a barbarian at that level should have
>>97898397We can all tell that you haven't played an actual RPG at a table, though. You're assuming you just have infinite wealth and you can go shopping to buy the exact magical item you want.You can't. It's an RPG.A peasant earns a gold piece... after working all day every day for a week.No one has an enchanted crown studded with jewels that makes them wiser and costs enough gold to buy the entire fucking village and the three neighboring villages. You want your magic shit, go find it in a forgotten crypt somewhere. Oh there wasn't the exact magic gewgaw you wanted in that crypt? Too fucking bad.No, you do NOT "need" the headband. You WANT the headband because you like numbers. Big number go up is all you fucking care about... because you've only played the video games. You have zero experience at an actual table being actually immersed in any roleplay.And everyone who does have the experience is immediately clocking you for being a poser. You're done here. You may leave.
>>97898397There's a spell that gives you skill points?
>>97900841>You're assuming you just have infinite wealth and you can go shopping to buy the exact magical item you want.Core rulebook, pg 460>No, you do NOT "need" the headband.Need as in required, you doofus. Not need as in want.>>97900897What? No the point is that temporary bonuses to intelligence doesn't grant skill points. Anon is talking big about how "buying equipment to give you enhancement to ability scores, natural armor or deflection are literally just wasted money" since he claims spells can fill in the gap. But skill points is genuinely the one example when you absolutely need a headband over the spell since Fox's Cunning doesn't give you skill points.
>>97899167a squad of barbarians or champions would be better because of the better saves also they would be #TheRaped dealing with these without a wizard with force barrage or revealing light im sorry:https://2e.aonprd.com/Monsters.aspx?ID=3240&Redirected=1
>>97901417 Barbarians can very easily get scent, which severely reduces the Will-o-Wisp's effectiveness since the Barb can use Point Out to help their buddies when the fucker is undetected due to Invisibility.Even without that you can Prepare to Strike (or better yet, Grapple since their Fort is bad for their level) them when they become visible from using Shock (its a melee strike so they'll be in range).Also, Grandeur Champions eat these fuckers alive since their reaction IS revealing light, so theres also that.
>>97901761What is mean is a 4 fighter party would be the raped by will o wisps. The stuff you said though does add to my argument that yeah barbs and champions I think are just more versatile for a party
>>97900242>I've been thinking it over, and I'm considering giving him the go-ahead with one or two of two or three handicaps:eh, I'll give my thoughts>Slower xp progression.I guess it balances it a bit, though you should be aware that:- On a long campaign that means the characters will fall behind the rest of the party, meaning they will die a lot if you throw CR appropiate monsters at them.- You will need to keep track of how many EXP you have given to party individually, because otherwise there can easily be "miscounts">Reconfigure the Swarm Fighter to a d8 chassis.- Probably exacerbates the earlier mentioned "die a lot" -issue, but if neither you or player think that is a problem then go ahead.>If he tries the Leadership thing, both of them have to take it for the right to assume control.Just be aware that it will be extremely easy to abuse Leadership even unintentionally.>The loot thing is obvious, he won't get two/three shares of money.Here's the thing though. That's not how it will go in the actual gameplay unless you do some very strict rules how looting goes. Why is that? Because enemies generally drop actual items rather than just money. In normal party that is not an issue, the excess gear will just be turned into money (at half value). In a party with extra characters though? Are the other party members really going to sell off items that "could be useful for one of the characters"? No, those items will stack on those extra characters, meaning that the player will end up getting double (or triple if they include Cohort) the loot regardless.
What's the best Pathfinder/D20 rule system for pokemon or other monster catching and training? Ideally Pathfinder 2.0 but honestly it's not that hard to convert from 1.0 or even D20 so if one of those is the better system, I don't mind doing some work.Summoner doesn't count.
I'm always confused when I read 2e guides for builds that recommend just totally dumping everything but Strength and Constitution as a Fighter, Barb, or Guardian. What do you even do outside of combat with a character who has the bare minimum in the mental abilities?
>>97902562Does not matter because you can't lose outside of combat.
>>97902562If you're charismatic IRL, you can pull the wool over the GM's eyes and get through social encounters without making skill checks.
>>97902562>dumping everythingThe only way you're "dumping everything" with 4 boosts is if you raise all stats evenly. You take your pick between CHA and INT for any dedication requirements and keep raising it plus STR CON WIS.
>>97902562learn how the game actually works before reading guides and you won't be confused anymore
>>97900830Probably the best bang for your buck but without knowing what other items you have it's hard to suggest. I could suggest a couple items. One being the lvl 14 tattoo Soaring Wings (Greater) which is a once an hour 10 minute fly speed equal to your land speed. Depending on how much you DM throws flying enemies this can come in very handy. I'm going to image you have up to date fundamental armor and weapon runes since Resilient (Greater) is level 14 and you like your other weapon rune. But if not, fixing that would be better. If you don't, it always worthwhile to have +2 items in your primary skills and perception with things like Obsidian Goggles or Eye Slash (Major). OG will give you constant darkvision but if you already have darkvision and your game isn't going to get the upgraded version, since OG (Major) will give you greater darkvision, Eye Slash lets you see four times father.
>>97902532There is a 3PP supplement for 2e called Battlezoo Eldamon, which is all about not!Pokemon. Its made by Roll for Combat and sounds right up your alley, though I havent personally used it (I just skimmed it and it seemed a bit too much bookkeeping for my liking).
>>97902562You can't dump stats so much in 2e to the point you can't do anything outside of combat. Stat distribution is designed where at least one mental stat with be at least +1, your Background always give you at least one skill training and feat, and the average DCs for level isn't so high that a +0 to a stat isn't so disastrous for them to try at. Compared to other d20 fantasy games, a PF2e character is just slightly well-rounded enough that they can try to participate in checks that they aren't built for, hence why so many martials can afford to focus strictly on physical stats.Furthermore, plenty of build guides will at least recommend +1 to WIS on pretty much every character, as most initiative rolls are based on Perception.
>>97901846>Here's the thing though. That's not how it will go in the actual gameplay unless you do some very strict rules how looting goes. Just so I can quickly clarify, there are four of us at the table, three if I don't have to DMPC to cover a blind spot.The way we've done loot is that barring a specific size of stuff, we have a 'communal loot pool' where everything we don't want goes into, and once we get back to the right town, hock everything and then split the resulting money.So if we split it four ways, and he's playing two or three characters, he only gets a quarter like the rest of us.>You will need to keep track of how many EXP you have given to party individually, because otherwise there can easily be "miscounts"To clarify on this one as well, we use medium progression per the campaign books, and I'll have to read into the xp differences to make sure it's safe, but he would he on slow progression.I'm still hesitant on this but you've been very helpful with helping me figure this out so far, thanks dude.
.>>97901846>>97903461Panicked follow up, if we find things we all need like a Cloak of Resistance or a Ring of Protection, we figure out who has the lowest stats and give it to him.Kind of the same deal with weapons, but unless we're lucky and get exactly what we want, we'd just buy the damn thing.
1e.I am mildly retarded so apologies if this is a retarded question. Does a claw attack with natural weapons count as a melee touch attack. If I were hypothetically a crossblooded sorcerer with Abyssal and Aberrant bloodlines for some reason, would I be able to use Long Limbs to attack with the Claws from the 1st-level Abyssal bloodline power? Logic tells me yes, I just don't want my DM to look at me like I am the retard I am when I try it.
>>97902573>Does not matter because you can't lose outside of combat.Bro forgot the RP part of TTRPG. Good luck browsing youtube on your phone for half of every session. I'm sure your GM loves you too
>>97904837Natural attacks are natural attacks. They are not innately touch attacks.
>>97904837Touch attack doesn't just mean you touch someone. It means armor doesn't stop the attack. So like energy blasts mostly. So if you use your claws to deliver the spell Shocking Grasp it's touch but if you slash at someone with your claws it's normal AC
>>97905001>>97904837Bear in mind that you can still use natural weapons to deliver touch spells; the White Haired Witch, unfortunateness notwithstanding, is designed to deliver Badtouch at increasingly further distances.
>>97905207...Which reminds me, I have my own dumb question.White Haired Witch, level five, ten feet of hair.Enlarge Person doubles your natural reach.Enlarged White Haired Witch, twenty feet of hair?
>>97905230pathfinder 1e has a template for how reach weapons interact with size
>>97902850you are correct in assuming all my fundamental runes are of appropriate strength; i also already have (greater) obsidian goggles and a +2 item for athleticsflight could certainly come in handy, and the tattoo is probably the most reliable item-based form of it ive seen, though im not sure how many flying enemies were going to encounter during the ruby phoenix tournament; might be more effective to just add more damage with (greater) flaming or something
>>97905729What is the second rune on your weapon?
>>97905873crushing
>>97905907normal or greater?
>>97905966greater, my bad
Did anyone bother with this yet?>https://www.myminifactory.com/users/PaizoPrintables?show=tribe
>>97906066Got any runes on your armor?
>>97906219just size-changing
>>97896161Gunslinger Way of the Drifter lets you reload with a melee weapon in hand - as a single action you can melee attack and also reload. There's not actually any rule that says you can't reload with a weapon in hand as an action, as reloading itself is an interact action. Common sense is the rule there.
>>97896324What you want is actually the NPC Core. the NPC core has groups of adventurers, troops you can use as fodder, and the basic character systems are not based on PC classes in all cases but have enough 'monster style stat blocks" to keep the players on their toes.
>>97906277Since you said your pc is an animal instinct barb, i'm going to assume you have Animal Skin. If you know an elemental damage is going to be coming up a lot, either Energy-Resistant (Greater) or Energy Adaptive. ERG is 10 resistant to a single elemental damage while EA has it so as a reaction each hour you can 5 resistant in an elemental damage that damaged you and lasts until you use the reaction again or you uninvest in the armor. As I mentioned before, Winged gives you the same ability as the Soaring Wing tattoo. Also which elemental damage greater were you thinking of going. I find Astral and it's greater is great unless you are facing a lot of constructs and the like. Since it lets you deal with ghosts and the like.
>>97906314>There's not actually any rule that says you can't reload with a weapon in hand as an action, That's not quite true.>Reloading a ranged weapon and drawing a thrown weapon both require a free handhttps://2e.aonprd.com/Rules.aspx?ID=2196This is why you need the Dual-Weapon Reload feat from Gunslinger or Dual-Weapon Warrior.
>>97906323i was considering flaming for the big persistent damage; i can already slow on crits with brawling crit spec so not frost, permanent deafness doesnt really seem to do much so not sonic, not sure how much damaging armor is gonna matter so not corrosive, shock's damage spreading doesnt seem terribly significant, and decaying just looks like slightly worse flaming (especially because greater elemental runes ignore resistances)astral has been good to me as a grappling-focused character, but idk if it will really matter going forward, doesnt seem like there will be any significant amount of ghost-fighting in my future
>>97906402Flaming has the strongest rider effect and with the greater version you only have to worry about enemies that have immunity to fire damage. Another option is Impactful. Since the damage is force. It will always be useful but the rider effect is not great. Can't see you wanting to push the enemy away from your reach if they fail a set dc.
Can nephelims be born with animal heads or even have full animalistic bodies? The book say so but I was hoping if its actually cannonical in golarion
Couldn't find in the repository some things I'm looking for to run Spore Wars on fvtt, which is the module and Jules & Ben's Animated Assets.Is there any chance for them to be found?
>>97907015It's definitely more on the Tiefling side, with stuff like Beastbrood lineage. I don't know any actual Pathfinder characters that kind of divine furry, but it is valid to have the aardling look in this game.pic related comes from the Ancestry Guide
>>97905316Listen man, I actually need a yes or no on this one.If yes, a twentieth White Haired Witch can use Enlarge Person and suddenly have a sixty-foot 'Horrible Rape' radius.Shitty archetype or not, that is fucking terrifying.
2e. Quick question, /pgg/. Sorcerous Potency just says "When you Cast a Spell from your spell slots" you get the damage or healing bonus. I know that means you don't get it on cantrips, focus spells, innate spells, staves, etc. But what about spell slots from other classes, via archetypes or dual classing? They're not sorcerer spell slots, but they're still *your* spell slots, so it should be fine, right?
Ki throw is so fun in pf1e, I got to trip a Trex and then greater trip/vicious stomp it
>>97908916As the witch hair is not a Reach weapon (aka weapon with specific Reach trait), it is completely unaffected by size changes without houseruling shenanigans.
>>97909005Yeah, as long they come from a spell slot, you get the bonus.
>>97909185As much as I hate the archetype, you're incorrect. The hair is a primary natural attack with a reach of 5 feet.Most player character races are "tall" type when determining reach due to size. And natural attacks do indeed increase reach when the creature increases size. What doesn't happen is a multiplier. You are correct that it does not have the "Reach" trait. But all this means is that you add the additional 30 foot reach for being level 20 to whatever their base reach is for whatever size they currently are. It doesn't double or anything like that. At Large size, the character would have a total reach of 35 feet, because Large (Tall) creatures gain +5 feet of reach, and that gets added to the hair class feature's base reach of 30 feet.So, a Large-sized White-Haired Witch at level 20 has a total reach with the hair of 35 feet. Not 60 feet.This archetype is one of the most absolutely retarded and toxic ones in the game, and if you discover your table has not banned it, you need to leave the venue immediately or kill yourself.
>>97909474Toxic, really?Is it because of how badly-written it is or something?I do appreciate your help though.Really, thank you.
I've only ever played 2e but been reading a lot of 1e stuff lately and the white-haired witch thing seems cool, thank you guys for showing meI have an NPC who's white-haired and mechanically a monster but uses similar abilities to (and in-lore would be) a witch>>97908916Also where is this 'Horrible Rape' ability? So uhh, I can avoid it... obviously.
PF 1E: Need a Feat for a level 8 Inquisitor. So far I have Weapon FinesseWeapon Focus (Longsword)Slashing Grace Skill Focus (Diplomacy)DodgeI have one more feat due to some fuckery with how I got Weapon Finesse (Level 8 Slayer Rogue Talent Finesse Rogue).The character I'm going for is a church investigator with Social Stealth (my skills all went to Knowledge Religion and various social skills) who then drops her cloak to reveal a longsword if it comes down to it, if that helps. I'm bad and indecisive.
>>97911463If you have Dodge them you might as well go with Mobility and add Spring Attack later on
>>97889408If you're enough of a chud to ask the question, and I was in your group, and I found out what you had changed, yes I would assume you did it for chud reasons.
>>97911463Skill Focus: Use Magic Device.Seriously.
>>97910704They're talking about grapple and other combat maneuvers.
>>97910621It's because it completely bypasses and breaks all the established standards and expectations for how combat and distance are related. There's a reason it's difficult to perform combat maneuvers at range. Not least of which is that it completely ruins action economy and forces extremely artificial constraints on encounter design. It basically means the GM has to design literally every single combat encounter specifically around dealing with that one character's unique ability. And I emphasize that it's rather unique.Imagine if everyone in the game could cast Black Tentacles at will:https://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/b/black-tentacles/That's basically what the white-haired witch is. It's a constant at-will black tentacles spell. There's a reason why spell slots are limited per day. There's a reason why there aren't called shot archers with special arrows in literally every single combat encounter you're up against. Imagine having to run a game like that.Fucking no. And you should be ashamed of yourself for trying to use one of the most infamous and often banned archetypes in the game's history. It's not as bad as the old version of the Summoner class, but it's close. And even the new version of Summoner is still HARD banned at my table. I specifically ask applicants what they think about Summoner during the vetting process and I keep a black list of applicants according to their answers.
>>97913589Ah, I see
I'm looking for "Evil" modules and Adventure Paths. Is there a list of all 1st and 3rd party modules that would be good for evil player characters?
>>97911463Change of Heart>https://aonprd.com/FeatDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Change%20of%20Heart
>>97913583I didn't put any points into Use Magic Device. Plus my GM's not really a Magic Device person. Thanks for the suggestion, though! >>97913053Could work...>>97913781This also might work. Thanks, giving me a bit to think about!
2eHow does Bloody Debilitation work? Since Debilitating Strike lasts until the end of your next turn, does that mean the persistent bleed damage goes away then or does it last until the target makes their recovery check?
>>97914113This is definitely a rules fumble on Paizo's part, depending on how you view the "Specific Beats General" clause. If you view Persistent Damage's recovery check as its own specific timer (so if there's some kind of disease that would make you bleed from your eyes for example), then it would last longer. If you view the Debilitation effect as overriding/creating all penalty timers, the debilitation timer would override, only ensuring it is an extra 3d6 bleed damage and that is it.That latter doesn't seem right, as it is just a worse Precise Debilitation despite the higher die damage thanks to how Bleed is affected by Physical Resistances and the timer on having to wait 'til the end of the enemy's turn for it to kick off. So I would go by the former, the bleed persists until it is cleansed (even if arguably Rogues don't need that much more damage).
>>97914113>>97914230It's also worth noting that there are abilities for which the persistent damage does end when the ability ends, and they say so specifically (see Personal Blizzard's text: "The persistent damage automatically ends when the spell ends.").So yeah I believe you're right. Persistent damage is, literally, just a type of damage. The effect of Bloody Debilitation is instantaneous and has no duration: it deals 3d6 damage. The damage it deals happens to be persistent bleed damage, and you recover from that as normal, with a recovery check each round.
>>97913610Ah, so that's why witch hair feats in 2e are garbage.
>>97913642General advice: do not run "evil campaigns".Way Of The Wicked is 3rd party and its development / developer is kind of infamous. But the first three books are actually good examples of how to run what is probably the players' ideal notion of "evil campaign". Past those first three, though, the books are woefully underdeveloped and mostly consist of huuuuuuuge fights with absolutely bonkers numbers of enemies and weird shit (like fighting - in the air, mind you - an uber paladin who is mounted on a flying dragon).Paizo did publish at least one "evil campaign" adventure path, I think it's called "Hell's Vengeance"? And although Skull & Shackles isn't technically an "evil campaign", it's pretty obvious that player characters could be evil scallywag pirates (and I can't imagine how a paladin PC could avoid falling pretty quickly in that story so they're basically just forbidden for players already). Strange Aeons could be an "evil campaign" in the sense that the players could easily be evil and dabbling in forbidden things, like insane Lovecraft cultists... Though they might shorten their life expectancy if you go hardcore with it, PF1e doesn't really do that style of Call Of Cthulu grimdank. And I think their previous lives were probably evil, too, or else they might not have ended up where they start the story? I don't remember the details.
>>97913808Inquisitors are spontaneous casters with limited spells known. You need UMD to expand your toolkit. It's basically a mandatory skill for that class, and so if you haven't been investing in it so far, then you've MAJORLY fucked up your build, dude. Scrolls and wands are baseline assumptions of the ruleset. It isn't up to your GM, really. You should be finding consumables like scrolls and wands as just part of generic treasure, and they're definitely affordable if you have access to literally any kind of economy. Basically the GM would have to go out of their way to completely eliminate your access to consumables or general fantasy world economics before UMD could become not worth investing in. And if you have a cleric or a wizard in the party, they already have Scribe Scrolls and they should be using literally every moment of downtime to create scrolls. If your cleric does not have the feat, ban that player from the table. I'm serious.But anyway, Dodge is not an especially good feat if you aren't going for Mobility --> Spring Attack. But I don't think you should have focused that much on melee combat in the first place. Inquisitors are skill monkeys. They're basically just divine Bards. Your purpose is not to hit stuff. Your purpose is to solve problems. And if you're going for "social stealth", then Skill Focus: Stealth is not a bad idea, either. All it takes is one enemy passing their Perception check to end your sneaking. And basically all enemies have max ranks in Perception.Which brings us back to UMD. Scrolls of Vanish (you need higher CL copies, because it lasts 1 round per CL) and Invisibility are much much cheaper than Potions. And the DC for UMD is 20 for Wands (all Wands), and 20 + CL for Scrolls. You can take 10 on the check if you aren't in combat. So as you can see, Skill Focus is extremely valuable for the skill. Similar skill feats like Deft Hands might fit a sneaky investigatorish Inquisitor.
>>97914591Yeah, because the situation got so fucking bad that there's a serious stigma about it nowadays. Just like for Summoners. And Druids for that matter.
>>97915015WHW was and is awfult because it's a 1/2 BAB class trying to trick you into poorly attempting combat maneuvers and getting killed in melee instead of using your 9th level spellcasting. What forums were you hanging in where people considered WHW a toxic archetype in need of banning? The only stigma it has is being "unplayable" unless you Gestalt or heavily multiclass. Like 95% of all threads about WHW are just people asking for help in making it work.>>97915011No, UMD is not a "mandatory skill" for Inquisitors. Spontaneous casters can still use the entire spell list without UMD for spell trigger items. No, Inquisitors are not "divine bards". They have one of the highest DPR potential of in the entire party because they have Judgment, Bane, and 6th level casting specifically focused on self-buffing. If you have nothing to contribute don't ask a fucking chatbot to write posts for you.
>>97915170You don't have to stay in the witch class, which you directly admit and agree about. I'm sorry that you're uneducated about the game, but your ignorance doesn't magically make broken content acceptable.I did not imply that Inquisitors could not use scrolls / wands from the cleric spell list. No one suggested anything like that.Bards are also among the highest DPR potential classes in the game, just for your future reference.Maybe you should exercise some reading comprehension and stop jumping to conclusions just because you want to stroke your ego with misplaced confidence. You don't know much about PF1e, so you should be quiet and listen more when people who do are speaking on the topic.
>>97915319>You don't have to stay in the witch classAnd if you don't, you won't get the 30 ft reach you were so hysterical about. Go ahead. Show me a sample WHW build in the lv 10 range. >I did not imply that Inquisitors could not use scrolls / wands from the cleric spell list.Mhm, uh-huh. And you called UMD mandatory for inquisitor because? ("Cleric", what?)>Bards are also among the highest DPR potential classes in the game, just for your future reference.You literally just said that "your purpose is not to hit stuff" after calling inquisitors "basically just divine bards". It doesn't matter if you try to walk back on your extremely daft comparison, because this new statement is also extremely daft. The inquisitor rivals the paladin in boss burst damage. The bard does not.I don't know what beef you have with the paizo thread but surely you have better things to do than shitting it up with ai slop. Nothing you're saying makes sense beyond a cursory glance and you're contradicting yourself over separate posts. Fucking clankers.
>>97891268>This anon is literally me.
>>97914979I thought there was one other "Evil Campaign" written for 1ePF... But looking at the list, I can't seem to remember which one it was.Earlier, I found a list of adventure paths and how easily they could be converted to "evil" campaigns. It seems the general advice is to just run adventures like normal, but then to occasionally give your players times to go "Mwuahahahaha!" between missions, and just remind them that "Evil" doesn't mean that they can't still be motivated by money, treasures, or riches.
>>979025622nd edition is a somewhat poorly designed game that threw away the 4th edition system of defenses using the better of two stats but kept Fortitude/Reflex/Will intact. Every single character in 2nd edition uses 2 of their 4 ability boosts increasing Wisdom and Constitution, and the vast majority of characters also boost Dex unless they're relying on Bulwark full plate. Perception is initiative plus sense motive plus investigation plus sense motive plus insight plus actual perception to notice traps and sneaking enemies, it's literally five skills in one
>>97916146>>97902562Fighterman only needs perception and athletics to get by in 90% of non combat scenarios which is essentially zero investment since he was using them in every combat anyways. Why would you invest more resources into non combat stuff when it's is a complete waste of time? 2nd edition is structured as a combat-as-sport arena battler where trivializing or bypassing combats is explicitly frowned upon by the rules and you're not meant to attempt anything "too good to be true", to the point you're literally not allowed to throw people off cliffs with the feat designed to let you throw people because God forbid gravity be overpowered
>>97916149>the point you're literally not allowed to throw people off cliffs with the feat designed to let you throw people because God forbid gravity be overpoweredIt is actually funny that because Whirling Throw doesn't use the terms "push" or "pull", it technically barred from moving people into Hazardous Terrain. But literally anyone would say that's an autistic reading that makes no sense.>In all cases, the GM makes the final call if there's doubt on where forced movement can move a creature.https://2e.aonprd.com/Rules.aspx?ID=2364&Redirected=1
>>97916172don't forget the errata nerf it got in remaster giving it the Attack trait as an extra special "Fuck You" when it wasn't subject to MAP for half a decade. God forbid monks have anything they do better than john fightermanhttps://2e.aonprd.com/Feats.aspx?ID=6008&Redirected=1https://2e.aonprd.com/Feats.aspx?ID=456&NoRedirect=1
>>97916186yeah yeah yeah dont need to beat some dead horse about the Attack trait nerf. Mostly just bringing up the very clear point that the rules say "GM use common sense here" when trying to bitch about 2e being obnoxiously balanced against fun.
Are there better features than cat's fall in 1e to avoid/reduce chance of falling prone that aren't magic items (gm rolls them and doesn't allow item creation so getting an specific item is harder than winning the lotto) for an non specific class/race?
>>97915444No one was hysterical. You're angry that your bullshit and bluster got stomped on. If you just stopped responding, instead of doubling down, you wouldn't be getting humiliated like that.
>>97915444And being able to do something doesn't mean it's the class's purpose. Stop making logical errors, anon. That's kindergarten shit.
>>97915947Maybe Council Of Thieves? But I don't actually know anything about that one.
I´m DMing kingmaker and soon my players will reach the point of actually having a kingdom to manage. I´m unsure on how to present then with the grid and constructions of settlements. Is printing, cutting out the buildings and glueing then into the grid really the best way to do this? I´m not using any digital media, it´s all good old pen and paper. I considered just giving then the grid and letting then draw whatever they build but I´d like to know if anyone had a better solution for this part of the game
>>97917178Considering that their city will be extremely small to begin with I would buy one of these packages of grid squares and start slowly either drawing or writing in buildings per square ontop of a gridmat or flip mat of the area that you want
>>97917120>>97917122Aaaanyways. The WHW build. Show us how "toxic" it is and why it should be banned. Or is that too complex for your chatbot?>>97916972If you're falling prone that often it's probably a better idea to grab Monkey Style so that you can stand up as a swift action and without provoking.
>>97917939Yeah, you're sure showing us all how creative and human you are. Anyone who says anything you don't like must be a chatbot. Sure. Ok. Yeah. 1e is 16 years old at this point but somehow you have the authority to demand that a build be presented to convince you of what the fuck ever. No one owes you anything. At all. No one fucking cares whether YOU are convinced of anything. You're no one. An especially stupid and ignorant no one.Go read the rules and figure it out, dude. It's been a thing for a decade and a half, and all the flame wars about it fizzled out before you got out of high school, apparently.You probably demand proof that the moon landing was real, too. And somehow, magically, mysteriously, no proof is every sufficient for you.Because it's never about the proof or logic or anything like that. You only care about salving your own ego. There's no point in engaging with you since you're not engaging in good faith. That's why you keep getting told to fuck off. Other people can know stuff that you don't, and you refuse to accept that under any fucking circumstances.Just shut up, dude. Just shut the fuck up. No one fucking cares about you, but you're shitting up the thread with your shit. Shut the fuck up. Everyone else wants to be able to have a conversation.
>>97917178You're running a tabletop game with pen and paper. And you don't want to use pen and paper...??? What is even fucking happening. What the fuck is happening to this place???
>>97917939>>97917983NTA but I would also like to see a bit more of an explanation for your disdain for WHW. I do get the "at-will black tendrils" deal, especially as you start being able to Constrict and Strangle foes, but I don't quite what makes it broken compared...using Slumber Hex. I don't even know where that other dude even got the 9th-Level Slots argument, you don't even need that as a Witch.It does feel like you got in a campaign where a Witch was Like That and basically locked down every fight, but I'm not quite sure in the grand scheme of 1e Bullshit it is That notable, or even breaks 1e's expectations of being locked down.
>>97918001Slumber is mind-affecting, so it doesn't work on literally half the bestiary. And it's also considered a game-breaking ability. Combat maneuvers work on basically anything that isn't incorporeal or in rare circumstances like swimming you can't really be prone (but that's more of a GM interpretation / logic thing, rather than a game mechanical one...)The witch class generally struggles against anything immune to mind-affecting. It's one of the main problems / limitations of the class. It's accidental, too. A class that's so binary in whether it's relevant in a given situation is not a good class. Whw solves all those problems without really giving up anything. Which means it's a serious problem.You can't fix a bad class design by giving it a broken ability that trivializes content and completely patches the one major weakness of the class. The correct solution should have been to fix the class in general, not to release archetypes that break the game in even more ways.And then there's the pragmatic way of looking at it: you never have to ask the witch player what they're doing on their turn. You already know exactly what they're gonna do. It's not even something they can make a choice about because anything other than that one gimmick is dramatically stupid thing to do by comparison. That's a huge problem. One OP gimmick is not a valid class design. If you have to design every encounter specifically to deal with one PC, then that PC is a problem.Witch isn't the only class this happens with. And there are hex choices and archetypes you can pick that aren't a problem. But whw and slumber are two of the big ones which are always problems.
2eFor an occult caster, what spell list would be better to grab via archetype, arcane or divine?
>>97918073Yeah, I can agree with that. Even in regards to 1e Bullshit, WHW does just grant Slumber+ in all practical matters. >>97918150Usually Arcane is better to grab as you already have healing and status cleansing. Unless you are in some kind of angel/demon-heavy campaign, Arcane usually has everything the other lists don't cover in some fashion. Primal is also a valid pick.
>>97913610Are you talking about 2e or something, how in the world does a d6 class with a 1d4 natural attack obliterate the action economy?
>>97918200Oh, I didn't see the other posts.
>>97917983Jesus. Watch your blood pressure. Instead of sperging out you could spend that energy on making the WHW build and realize why it's dogshit. It would have genuinely taken you less than 10 minutes. You are a 10th level witch. Your BAB is 5. You have 15 ft reach and anyone you strike with your hair can be grappled, tripped, pulled, and strangled. The GM throws your party an easy encounter and three CR 7 enemies show up. Average AC and CMD at that CR are 20 and 26, respectively. To successfully grapple an enemy you must first manage to hit them with your hair and then succeed on the CMB check. We're being generous and assuming high optimization so that's a +14 to hit and +18 to grapple. Which puts you below 50% chance of grappling an opponent 3 CR below your level with your hair. And just below 20% against an on par CR opponent. This just gets worse as you level up.But even if you do manage that you're now in a shit situation because grappled foes are pulled adjacent (read the grapple rules) to your half BAB d6 arcane ass. They'll provide soft cover to their buddies, and they can still demolish you with natural attacks while grappled. Or just escape since your CMD is awful. Finally, when your next turn does come up you'll be forced to release everyone but one as it costs a standard action per foe to maintain their grapples (read the grapple rules). You may not have the grappled conditon but you are heavily restricted in your action economy. >>97918073>Whw solves all those problems without really giving up anything. Which means it's a serious problem.What a strange thing to say. Tell me, what does the WHW keep?
>>97918073>>97917939A big part of the problem with the WHW is like what >>97910621 said, it's badly-written and a lot of people (self included) misread how it worked for years.By RAW, Strength is still used for Attack, checks to maintain grapples, and CMD, with Int for Damage, checks to start a grapple, and that's pretty much it.Everybody, on their first read, thought that it was Int for everything; Attack, damage, CMB and CMD.RAW requires you to spread your Ability scores thin to make your kit barely work, and the other, arguably RAI, gives you a genuine chance to lock down a fight once your hair is long enough.The second thing is that by RAW, the minute you grab someone with your hair, they're yanked and put adjacent to you; a cat, a dorf, a fucking dinosaur three sizes larger, doesn't matter, they're right beside you now and then you're dead.But because of how the hair is written, specifically 'you are not considered grappling,' they should stay put where you grab them.I started playing just as Dragon Empires Primer dropped and bought it for a friend's birthday.I watched in real time as my old group gushed over the archetype, build their own Witch with their own gimmicks and antics, realized they completely misunderstood how the archetype was supposed to work a month later, and spend the rest of our time together having shouting matches over it.In my very first time playing PFS, I played a White-Haired Witch.>Move up to guy.>Cast (Rime Spell) Frostbite.>Touch, hit.>Fatigued, entangled.>Touch provokes Grab.>Get him.>Something else happened to further debuff him.>GM had to take a fiver to figure it out.>He took a cumulative -10 to Dex with all that nonsense, paralyzing him.>He congratulates me after game for the stunt, then politely warned me to never do it again.I have a lukewarm attitude to it now, but the White-Haired Witch got me interested in Pathfinder, so I give the Sedusa archetype some respect.I mean, just my two cents here, desu.
>>97918642>because grappled foes are pulled adjacent (read the grapple rules)Am I crazy or did Paizo themselves forgot this rule, given this bit?>Pull (Ex): At 6th level, a white-haired witch who successfully strikes a foe with her hair can attempt a combat maneuver check to pull the creature 5 feet closer to her as a free action.Why would make this when you already drag creatures adjacent to you??>>97918746Yeah, looking into it more, this does just seem...really badly written. Either it doesn't work at all, or Slumber++ EX Final RemiX Heart. At best you can grab Improved Grapple and the like to make it stronger and you can always just Trip.This is some prime 1e slop I kinda miss being a 2e fan. When we get shit content, it just something so horrifically niche no one cares. This is almost designed to create flame wars online.
>>97918791>Why would make this when you already drag creatures adjacent to you??paizo designers are mostly freelancers working as the lowest bidder possible who don't even play their own game. This has been their standard practice for more than a decade and a half and is why so many archetypes literally don't function or seem to have been written by a chimpanzee on meth (see also: the entire drake rider debacle and how RAW they're literally less than worthless and become an active detriment, or shit like the Sha'ir Occultist which is just baffling)
>>97918842Just for the benefit of readers, the entire Occult Adventures book is garbage that was written by amateur contractors... who had never played PF1e before.
>>97918746Int is used instead of Strength for the combat maneuver check.Also importantly, you can attempt the Grapple as a Free Action and you do not yourself gain the Grappled condition like normal grapplers do.Furthermore, you can't end it with a Sunder on the hair like you normally could on something like a whip or tentacle.Then the action economy of the extra goodies you get as you gain class levels, Trip, Pull and Constrict / Strangle as Swift Actions is insane. Strangle alone absolutely fucking outrageous.Here's a link to the archetype directly:https://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/witch/archetypes/paizo-witch-archetypes/white-haired-witch
>>97918642>But even if you do manage that you're now in a shit situation because grappled foes are pulled adjacent (read the grapple rules) to your half BAB d6 arcane ass.From the archetype itself:>When a white-haired witch grapples a foe in this way, she does not gain the grappled condition.And here you have a solid 40% of the archetype's arguments; If you're not actually grappling them, do they get pulled towards you?
>>97918746Also it's important to point out to the idiot up there who said something about the Witch's half BAB that BAB doesn't matter because it all goes off as Touch via spells.>>97918200Check out what kinds of actions it takes to trigger the white hair abilities.>>97918642Be quiet, adults are talking. Go read the archetype.
>>97918943Yeah, no, this is what I meant by "designed to make flame wars". It is not your own grappled condition that forces the pull, that's how all grappling would work. It just makes no sense and *cannot* be RAI because not only it is SUICIDAL on even the best Witches, they made effectively a dead ability just for Pulling without Grappling, which...why...?Though yeah, working with Touch Attacks massively amps up the danger level back into "I don't want to see this at my table".
>>97918943From the archetype's description:>Pull (Ex): At 6th level, a white-haired witch who successfully strikes a foe with her hair can attempt a combat maneuver check to pull the creature 5 feet closer to her as a swift action*.None of that would make sense if grappled victims were automatically pulled towards you.So, no, victims are not automatically pulled towards the witch.
>>97918932Archive of Nethys says they're free actions, per the old books and the pre-errata.That's kind of odd, why would they keep the old version?
>>97918992The 1e section of the site is woefully forgotten. Since AoN is a volunteer project and all their new hires and focus is on the 2e games, they never gave the 1e part a much-needed tune-up. Funniest bit comes from how there's a "finesse rogue" feat that doesn't exist written there.Doesn't help that d20pfsrd takes a lot of the SEO for 1e content, and the search function *barely* works on AoN, so even the fans can't double-check mistakes like that unless they know it by heart.
>>97918992probably because the people who run AoN agree that old Paizo designers doing forum post errata like fucking videogame patch notes was retarded reminder pic related is now lead designer of pf2e with his name on the front cover of the rulebook
>>97918992Because AoN is not really updated rigorously / does not have the staff to update it. It's just an inferior SRD, flat out. The only reason it exists is that the guy running it secured an agreement with Paizo to put their proprietary setting information there. So AoN can reference Golarion gods and countries and stuff, but the d20pfsrd can't.d20pfsrd is simply the more correct source, though.
>>97918959>Yeah, no, this is what I meant by "designed to make flame wars". Yeah, I kind of see the problem now asking my question about enlongening my hair at the start.Sorry man, starting a big fight wasn't on purpose.
>>97919014>reminder pic related is now lead designer of pf2e with his name on the front cover of the rulebookYou meant to put a different pic there? Of COURSE Bulhman is the lead designer of 2e, he was the dude made Pathfinder in the first place!>>97919015The big problems with d20pfsrd are that it posts a lot of 3rd-party content that you meant to buy, doesn't do a good job segregating that content, and still have the balls to shill other 3pp content; even though it is borderline a piracy site. It's definitely far handier than AoN for PF1e content, but it does leave a sour taste in my mouth,The fact it has fucking POP-UP ADS in the 2020s is actually kind of disgusting.>>97919024Not your fault, this is still /pgg/. It's all schizo-hours all the time here. It is nice to get a 1e shitstorm at least, helps break up some of the more circular ragebait of 2e fighter-fag/casters sux/monk sux/psychic sux/2e sux nonsense.
>>97919055>ragebaittalking about how the 2e classes are poorly balanced and some are far and away better than others isn't ragebait, neither is pointing out how the game is more than half a decade old yet despite there being over 1000 printed spells playing a caster mostly boils down to being a Slowbot and cheerleader/heal slut.Don't worry though, I'm sure printing the third attempt at Ranger and Legally Distinct Swashbuckler in Slayer/Daredevil instead of actually giving more support to existing classes in dire need of it will fix the game's issues!
>>97919055The source material is documented at the bottom of every page and all 3rd party material is labeled as such in the parent page (archetypes are labeled in the table on the class page if they're 3rd party, for example, and all 3rd party monsters are segregated when searching or reading through various indices or search results). So it's just not true that 3rd party material isn't segregated. It definitely is.It's a free service, anon. How do you think they keep the site up? Fairy jizz and unicorn farts??No one fucking cares about your feefees. Go use AoN if you want to. Maybe your hilarious pretense of moral superiority for whatever made up reason will make the shitty search and completely inaccurate mechanical details feel better.
>>97919055Reminder that 1e is still the more popular system to actually use. 2e just gets talked about, not played.
>>97918642Assuming you're maxing your Strength with a +6 belt, taking Improved Grapple, Weapon Focus (Grapple), Bred for War, Deific Obedience (Falayna), Gauntlets of Maneuver (Grapple), king crab bonus:>BAB: +5>Strength: +5 (+1 evel progression)>Belt of Giant Strength +6: +3>Imrpoved Grapple: +2>Weapon Focus (Grapple): +1>Bred for War: +1>Gauntlets of Maneuver (Grapple): +2>Deific Obedience: +4>King crab: +2>5+9+2+1+1+2+4+2=26 to Grapple checks, or +30 if you use Grab, and it would be even higher once you put a spell or two on, like Divine Favour.Could be worse, honestly, but after that it gets way worse way fast.
>>97919129>So it's just not true that 3rd party material isn't segregated. It definitely is.I said not a good job, not that they don't do it. I'm not a fan of the formatting of the content nor the inability to turn off 3pp content from showing up.The problem isn't hosting 3pp or wanting to make money. The problem is that you need to Pick One.I don't have a problem with piracy (something something service problem, I get a lot of 2e books off ShareThread), I just get sick and tired of these sites all either trying to "go legit" and fumbling over their entire userbase or get PikachuSurprisedFace.gif when they get a C&D for trying to make money off of shit that ain't theirs. d20srd is very grateful that the 1e 3pp community either don't care or don't exist anymore enough to bother slapping that shit, but it still leaves me uncomfortable about actually using the site. It may be a personal problem and it isn't going to stop me from using it in tandem with AoN when I want a search that works, but it is a reasonable fear.Also you don't need to have a literal pop-up ad every time I go there, especially when I click DONT SHOW ME THIS ANYMORE.
There aren't nearly enough subtypes of Ankhrav.I have had to substitute many other insect types to make an Ankhrav Hive feel more interesting; >Workers remain the basic CR 3 Ankhrav>Warriors are CR 4 Giant Stag Beetle>Hive Guard are CR 7 Chuul with the tentacles replaced with the Hive Queen's pheromoneHelp me figure out more enemy types to reskin. I've been terribly tempted to turn a Cave Worm into a Hive Tyrant but I think CR 15 is too much for a Level 6 party and, more importantly, it would cheapen the fight against a true dragon in the late game. I think it would be interesting to have a sort of "explosive grub" for when the PCs enter the Hive itself - maybe a Bore Worm Swarm - but I want to hear your opinions before I start adding more enemy types that might not even get used.For context, the current battlemaps that the PCs are going to fight Ankhrav are,>Canyon leading to Hive (lots of vertical hills boxed in by canyon walls.)>Hive entrance (lots of vertical cliffs punctuated by open spaces)>The Hive (narrow corridors, very claustrophobic, with strange fungal growth providing illumination.)>>97919253>DONT SHOW ME THIS ANYMORE.Corporations don't need to believe in consent, anon.
>>97919886Do you NEED more? It sounds to me like you've covered all the main types: Worker, Soldier, Elite and then the Queen. All you're really missing is larvae, and if you want those to be a threat then a bore worm swarm certainly fits.I think 4 (or 5 if you use the swarm) types is more than sufficient for the number of encounters and escalation you're looking for.Also if you want to add some pizzazz you could look into hazards for the hive if you want something extra without needing to add another Ankhrav type.
>>97920846That's what I needed to hear, thanks. Adding a dozen+ subtypes would make sense if Ankhrav are the primary focus of the campaign, but (for now) they're part of the arc where the players are established as heroes.
>>97919253They do not have to pick one, though. That isn't how any of this fucking works. Manage your fucking emotions, dude. Grow the fuck up.
>>97919232It uses Int for Grapple, not Strength.https://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/witch/archetypes/paizo-witch-archetypes/white-haired-witchhttps://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/tools/bestiary-monsters-average-statistics/
>pf1eI was looking at Terra from FF6 recently and I was wondering if there was a way to make a transforming magic user. So far all I can think of are Magical Girl vigilante (though apparently it was nerfed?) and Synthesist. Have I missed anything else?Then again I suppose any shapechanger would work, technically.
>>97922098Beastmorph and Metamorph alchemist archetypes, and Master Chymist prestige
>>97922098You know Druid has Wild Shape, yeah? How many classes have Alter Self on their spell list?I don't think it's the shapeshifting you'll have a hard time doing. It's the weird demigoddess nature of her being. You need to find some kind of half-fey race.
>>97922414I have an instinctive aversion to alchemist, must be why I missed those. Thanks! >>97922432Yeah, I was mainly going for the "spellcaster who has a super mode that doesn't get in the way of her spellcasting" thing but now that I think about it, PF isn't that sort of game.
>>97922098Take a few levels in Shifter, anon. Then just level the rest in Sorcerer or something.
>>97922441Natural Spell feat.https://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/natural-spell/Druids do that kind of thing... but PF1e is not really the sort of game where you just free-form design a character with arbitrary abilities, no.You should look at GURPS for that. Check the Shapeshifting advantage on page 83 of the Basic Set: Characters book. Keep in mind that advantages are meant to be modified with limitations and stuff. What you see there is just the default basic "seed" of an ability.
Poppy-Playtime-core artwork in Starfinder 2e now.
I wanna make a vampire villain in PF2e with an ability to "steal" spell slots from other people. Anybody have an idea on how I could write this, especially to keep it relatively fair and balanced?
>>97922597Scale this to an appropriate level https://2e.aonprd.com/Feats.aspx?ID=1808
>>97922637>PF2e once again already has what I wantHow can they keep doing it... Thanks Anon this is a great framework I can build on
>>97922480I know most people have accepted they need to do a lot of reskinning to make Paizo games palatable but holy shit is it getting harder.
>>97918791>Why would make this when you already drag creatures adjacent to you??If grappling doesn't work, you can trip. If tripping doesn't work, you can drag. The intention was never that you would grapple->trip->drag as they all share the same successful hit trigger. They fucked it up by originally making it all free actions though. >>97918943>And here you have a solid 40% of the archetype's arguments; If you're not actually grappling them, do they get pulled towards you?You're still grappling them, you just ignore the grappled condition. It's good because you can still make AoOs, cast spells without a check, and move around. There's a fun Feral Combat Training build you can do to get multiple hair attacks in a round and restrict everyone's movement temporarily. Think it was called Headbanger. >>97919232I think the general idea is to go with weapon finesse and combat reflexes since STR based leaves your AC at like 15 as an arcane caster and you want the AoOs, which delays your feat progression a fair bit. And splitting your ability scores between hitting and grappling lowers them. That Deific Obedience is superb tho.
>>97922825>They fucked it up by originally making it all free actions though.That's why it's been errata'd to be a swift action now.
>>97922597I would advise against it. Think about how there are very little card games that have "Pick a card from your opponent's hand, play it on your side" compared to controlling a card already on the board. Spell slots are such a luxury a resource, it doesn't make sense to snatch it from them before they got the chance to try to use it. People put spells in their slots because they want to USE them. Think about how there are very few creatures that can still Sunder or destroy weapons in the hands of players.If you still wanna try, I would say either try snatching a spell after a successful Counterspell, or *copying* a spell after being drained, like Bloodrager's Spelldrinker. Your table has to be good sports about GM Bullshit to get away with any resource draining mechanic, especially spell slots.https://2e.aonprd.com/Feats.aspx?ID=7243
>>97922480The moonman is meh but I like the pogging insect thing.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Pathfinder2eFurry/feathery softcore (with butt and some suggestion of cameltoe) as the #1 most upvoted post on the Pathfinder 2e subreddit for the past day.What is the Pathfinder 2e subreddit even about by this point, truly.
>>97926989better question is why do you give a shit about the things happening on reddit?
I’m going to make a neutral good god that hates Pharasma and seeks to grant everyone immortality. Because I hate Pharasma and what she stands for.
1eare styles from unchained monk that let you do maneuvers without the feats even viable? they have zero bonus
>>97927569Aroden tried this and Pharasma had him killed for it.
>>97927569>>97928029And Urgathoa is over there...
>>97927941Do you have an example?Are you talking about Wolf Style or something?
>>97928155Fuck, I should have specified I aways forget in 1e they're named style feats not stance feats, I meant the style strikes from the unchained monk like leg sweep
pf1eHow acrobatic can be a duelist? I want to replicate Vega from Street Fighter (Claw) using tekko kagi, but I dunno if I can jump everywhere int he room and get into a 50ft high ceiling with ease>inb4 But why duelist and not a ninja?I feel Vega fits more into the duelist part of a bullfighter than entirely into a ninja class, but I'm open to suggestions
>>97928440Against weak enemies that you would do better just punching them? sureAgainst abosolutely anything else? lol lmao even
>>97922825>think the general idea is to go with weapon finesse and combat reflexes since STR based leaves your AC at like 15 aTrue, but you still use Strength for your CMD and to maintain your grapples; starting a grapple uses your Int when you hit someone.Give me a second to brain this out, uh:Samizdat, tiefling White-Haired Witch (10)8/18/12/22/7/7Feats: Weapon Finesse, Weapon Focus (Grapple), Unarmed Strike, Improved Grapple, Deific Obedience (Falayna), Bred for War (Trait).Items: Headband of Int +6, Belt of Dex +4, Gauntlets of Maneuver (Grapple), king crab familiar, BAB (5)+Int (9)+crab (2)+Gauntlets (2)+Feats (8)=+26 to grappling, or +23 to maintain afterward.Spells like Divine Favour with Fate's Favoured would give you an extra +4 to that, but your CMD is going to suffer from that dumpage.
>>97928500>starting a grapple uses your Int when you hit someone.Jesus Christ, I need to learn how to speak normally.By the wording of the ability, you only use Int on Grabs, so you either have to hit them with your hair or use a touch spell with your hair.Everything else is Str, or Dex if you take Weapon Finesse.
>>97928460duelist prestige? why not Swashbuckler? you need dex and cha and you get Derring-Do also this feat can help you https://www.aonprd.com/FeatDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Wind%20Leaper
>>97928616Oh noooooooo! You'll have to target Touch AC! With Reach! How awfullllll....Anyway. What's everyone having for lunch?
>>97928500Nothing has to be grappled for more than one round. Fights at those levels don't often even last two complete rounds, anon.
>>97926989Death to all freakshit
>>97927941Some of the styles are good. Some are situational, and those situations might not be common. Various things that let you temporarily use or swap feats are good for that sort of thing.The primary weakness of PF1e is how few feat slots you get for customizing your character your diversifying your tactical toolkit. PF1e is still way better about that than 3.5 though. It's common these days to play with a homebrew modification that removes various "tax" feats, which does help a little bit (though they go way too far in specific areas like weapon finesse). Talk to your GM about just giving a feat slot every character level instead of every other.
>>97926989I hate Schooney so much, I hate how faggy this system and setting is. And I mean faggy in the most blunt way possible; everything is bright and colorful and incredibly queer.
>>97926989"She is a very bouncy creature who loves jumping and flipping around the battlefield like a giant goober. What's the point of playing a parrot animist if you aren't being a bouncy goober drop-kicking people while sustaining your magic, and then making a terrible joke that makes your familiar groan after you win?" is one of the comments from OP. How did we ever let people like this get into our space?
>>97929031>our spaceYour question contains the answer.
>>97929031Online forums are utter cesspits for socialization, anyone who’s been online since the 2000s would know this. Going to Reddit for a conversation is like expecting a healthy discussion with a street preacher - and I actually mean that in more ways than “they’re crazy.” It’s easy to get upset at online discourse because every post feels like it came from a pulpit, not a person. If this person was going “goo goo goober” within throttling distance than it would hit way more different than on an online forum.Does that make sense? Am I rambling? What I mean is they’re freaks who quite literally only exist with any authority online, if they pulled this shit anywhere else they’d be the weirdo getting ostracized at the game store.
>1eTrying to figure out the Kineticist right now, is it actually worth it?I want to try building a Kinetic Knight, would earth be a decent option?
>>97924447I like that version of the ability, seems like some tweaking would get what I want from it.If it makes it any better, I would allow My PCs to also learn the ability if they wish. Could make for some interesting roleplay scenes.
>>97929986There are too many variables you need to tell us. What kind of campaign is it? What do you mean "worth it"? What's your metric for how you evaluate "worth it"?How's this, why don't you ask yourself if you will enjoy it? Not whether it's "worth it". But whether you will enjoy playing that class.If you don't know how the class works, here's an abstract overview: it's an elemental-themed Warlock from 3.5 just a lot more specialized without "invocations" really but instead able to make their eldritch blasts more powerful if they spend some actions "gathering power" before they eventually blast. You can blast at max power without spending time gathering power, but you take "burn" which applies a penalty to your Con until you rest to recover at the end of the day. The flavor of the class is that a 3rd party amateur contractor wrote that book, and so the class is poorly supported by the rest of the PF1e system and Kineticist too strongly Avatar The Last Airbender flavored to really be suitable for any kind of serious fantasy story. It also completely breaks the offense-defense calculations and resource management of the system, so your GM is entirely within their rights to just outright ban the class and punish you if you complain about it.
>>97930504> It also completely breaks the offense-defense calculations and resource management of the system, so your GM is entirely within their rights to just outright ban the class and punish you if you complain about it.Dude, it's 1e. Kineticist doesn't even *approach* the bullshit the average caster gets up to. If anything, their resource management of Kinet is *far* more intensive than any caster thanks to how Burn is a stupid mechanic that negates the fun of being a CON-based caster. Doubling on this, they wanna be Kinetic Knight, an archetype that removes most of Kinet's strengths to be a pretty middling martial bot with not even the Samurai mechanics people actually like. The idea of pretending any of that is on-par with Chained Summoner, the dozens of ways you can break Inquisitor, or full 1e casters is silly as hell.Unironically if there is one thing 2e and its anal retentiveness over balance that don't get talked enough about, it is how it affects 1e discussions. A lot of people scramble trying to find the "reasonable" power level of it so people can talk about how 2e does it worse, when Paizo barely cared about what makes for a *functional* class, much less a *balanced* one.
>>97928500Well, the grapple bonus is definitely good enough. You're at 75% accuracy against the average CR 10 creature and it kinda required all your wealth and feats. (Not a criticism towards you, but WHW). But here we see why WHW truly falls apart real fast. The grapple bonus is respectable but if you wanted to Trip or Drag instead your CMB is... +11. So these options quickly become obsolete because even full BAB martials struggle with CMB checks without investment. Like >>97927941 ponders. And even if your grapple was a guaranteed success, the grappled condition just isn't that scary. Grappling is scary because it can lead to being pinned. The WHW can't really leverage that because your CMD is so low that enemies can actually just reverse the grapple. Pull you by the hair and bam, now you're a grappled caster in melee. With like 20 AC and 50 HP. Or they simply kill you instead of even attempting to escape the hair. I guess what I'm trying to say is that WHW isn't just a glass cannon, they're a glass peashooter. But I think that's enough griping about the WHW.
>>97930602Check how much damage a kineticist does with an action, and then remember that they target Touch AC.Now go read the Infusion Specialization class feature.And after that, shut the fuck up.There are no casters with infinite Disintegrate spells per day which don't even allow a saving throw. Shut the fuck up. Seriously.
>>97930602That summoner is game breaking and perma banned from literally all games, that inquisitors can break shit, none of that means that kineticist is ok. Stop trying that whatabout bullshit. The more you whine, the harder my penis gets knowing that you're only crying because no one is gonna let you play your favorite class so you can sneakily break everyone else's game.You're the guy who applies to every game begging to be allowed to play an artificer because you promise you're not like all the other artificers and the way you play is really perfectly fine and you know how to do it correctly so that you don't destroy the game you super duper promise.Fucking spare me.
>>97930653You can't get grappled from your hair. You only inflict the grappled condition on the victim. You are not yourself grappled while the victim is grappled. So, no, you're just wrong about that part. They cannot reverse the grapple no matter what they do. In game mechanical terms, you just have a lot of reach. If they want to grapple you, they have to be able to reach you... that is to say, the space where your actual token is. For example, you can't grapple a giant from twenty feet away just because he cant reach you to hit you. It's not the giant's reach that matters when you're the one trying to reach him.Also, it doesn't matter if they spend their turn breaking out of the grapple. It still cost them their turn to do so. And you can continue to apply grappled when it's your turn again.And no, the grappled condition is just about as severe as it's possible to get short of full paralysis, stun or petrification. It hard-blocks any kind of casting (including spell-like abilities), and it prevents movement. Your hair can't be sundered. If they can't reach you from their position, they can't even hit you.And then there's the elephant in the room that you're trying to avoid: none of this costs the witch spells at all. They can just do it all day long with no restrictions. It's not like a hex where the victim becomes immune if they make their save. The witch just keep grappling. The comparison to at-will black tentacles spells was very accurate.
>>97931097>>97931108Ignoring the fact you need to be max level to drop 4 burn to 0, or spend a lot of rounds Gathering Power to use it around half that level... (god is Burn a terribly written mechanic, the people wanting it back in 2e are INSANE/RETARDED)>There are no casters with infinite Disintegrate spells per day which don't even allow a saving throw.>which don't even allow a saving throwDisintegrating Infusion>You can use force to rip your targets apart. Against creatures, your kinetic blast deals double its normal amount of damage, but targets receive a saving throw to reduce the damage to half the blast’s normal amount of damage (for a total of 1/4 of the blast’s increased damage)And really, just ban the particular infusions you take offense at over the whole class.Arguably Kinet isn't even a good class meta-wise. Blasts are just a bit too specialized in what they can do and what impulses you can stack compared to actual magic. And Burn either cuts your HP in half or requires you to be dead weight for a round. Role-locked/specialized classes aren't great in 1e when you can play Cleric or Druid or Inquisitor and get to do E V E R Y T H I N G with little-to-no-issues. I imagine if it wasn't made in Occult Adventures, it would look closer to what we got now in 2e -- an easy-bake at-will caster that trades bookwork for action economy issues.
>>97931168(cont.)1e DOES have its own sense of balance, and I can kinda-sorta see an issue with a """"""resource-free"""""" caster. But actual casters already get so many spell slots on top of magic items like scrolls and staves and wand crafting. Even with the ability to reduce the cost of Burn innately, the lack of non-3pp support with items and feats, combined with the awkward stat array you need to be a proper kineticist (another reason why Kinetic Knight isn't all that great, DEX is just a stronger stat than STR, Heavy Armor is a bit overrated here) leaves you really up shit's creek. They aren't a bad class (badly written, but even then OA has far worst classes in both balance and writing), just nothing worth throwing your arms about. For everything they could betray about 1e's design, they are just as limited by it.
>>97931135The WHW has exactly one exception from the normal grappling rules, and that is that you don't suffer the grappled condition. For anything, anything else, you look up the grappling rules. So take out your core rulebook and open up page 199. When you grapple them with your hair the enemy is pulled adjacent to you, as per the rules. The Pull ability does not imply or state otherwise. And interestingly, a tiny creature with 0 reach is not prohibited from reversing a grapple made by a huge creature. As per the rules. And you should probably refreshen your memory on how casting is still possible while grappled. Your low witch CMB makes it easier. >And then there's the elephant in the room that you're trying to avoid: none of this costs the witch spells at all. They can just do it all day long with no restrictions. It's not like a hex where the victim becomes immune if they make their save. The witch just keep grappling. The comparison to at-will black tentacles spells was very accurate.Okay, I'll adress your elephant. You've deluded yourself into thinking that WHW restricts at reach, and built your entire argument on that premise. It doesn't. You think this somehow stops anyone from reversing the grapple if it were true. It doesn't. The reson why it's not anything like an at-will black tentacles spell is because Black Tentacles is multi-target and at range. You can cast it from fuck-off distance while WHW forces you to stay right next to the mayhem and uses up your own actions. 15 ft away is still within HORRIBLE RAPE RADIUS. 30 ft away is still within HORRIBLE RAPE RAIDUS. You do not want to be in HORRIBLE RAPE RADIUS.Finally. Even if everything worked exactly like you wanted it to, WHW would still be outclassed by an Efficient Quiver loaded with mancatchers. Which is an actual way to AoO grapple foes that everyone can use. Even the witch.
>>97931706Oh, and mancatchers actually allow you to grapple and restrict at reach. So it's just better. Pair it with enlarge person and we're talking 20 ft reach AoO grapples by lv 3.
>>97931097targeting touch AC is good but kineticists get fucked by spell resist and energy resistance both of which are extremely common on like half the bestiary and only become more common as you level. They're reliable damage dealers with a low ceiling and high floor; a turbo optimized kineticist doesn't do much more damage than a new player playing one since the class is so on-rails and has such limited scaling vectors, which is why it's common for inexperienced GMs to go "omg wtf so OP!!!" the same way noobs think Sneak Attack is overpowered and introduce house rules to nerf rogue despite being one of the weakest core classes. Kineticist blasts don't benefit from iterative attacks, and even among options targeting touch AC there's stronger options. Finally, remember that this is 1e you're talking about and that "this character can do a lot of damage by using their entire turn to target a single enemy they can see and roll a pile of dice to attack them!" is like one of the single most fucking fair and honest ways you can play, compared to the actually busted shit 1e characters are capable of. It's like complaining about a Barbarian getting retarded high strength and power attacking enemies for a billion damage while hitting on any roll above a natural 1 with furious focus, bro that's literally their fucking job
>>97931770and before anyone comes whining about hypotheticals, if you'd actually played 1e you'd know full-BAB martial characters hitting on anything above a 1 is completely within expectations and not at all hyperbole, making the distinction between touch AC and regular AC academic a lot of the time. An adult red dragon is a CR 14 enemy with 29 AC. a level 14 barbarian has +14 to hit just from level. Assuming you roll a 2+ on Dice that's now +16. If you can't find a way to get +13 to hit by level fucking fourteen across attributes, equipment, feats, class features, spells, etc. I don't know what to tell you.
>>97931770
>>97929030not even faggy enough, this guy posted all his characters and they're ALL furries with third party races
>>97931706>When you grapple them with your hair the enemy is pulled adjacent to you, as per the rules. The Pull ability does not imply or state otherwise. An>White-Haired Witch casts Frostbite.>Badtouch Barbarian from fifteen feet away.>Damage, grapple.>Barbarian is zipped towards White Haired Witch.>Barbarian has that ioun stone gimmick to ignore fatigue.>White-Haired Witch realizes mistake.>White-Haired Witch smiles.>Barbarian's turn.>Barbarian smiles back.
>>97931719The mancatcher doesn't say anywhere that the grappled foes doesn't get pulled towards you.
>>97934004That is true. This can instead be inferred from the description of the grapple special weapon feature. Ultimate combat pg 130.>While you grapple the target with a grappling weapon, you can only move or damage the creature on your turn. You are still considered grappled, though you do not have to be adjacent to the creature to continue the grapple. If you move far enough away to be out of the weapon’s reach, you end the grapple with that action. "though you do not have to be adjacent to the creature to continue the grapple" means you can skip the part of the normal grapple rules where you check for adjacency. It would also be supremely silly to pull the creature adjacent when you're using a reach weapon to grapple, as that would immediately break the grapple as per the last sentence quoted.The drawback with grapple weapons is of course that you can't pin enemies with them, but the mancatcher has a huge advantage vs normal grappling. When you drop the weapon, the enemy must still waste actions to escape. Sure, it's a guaranteed success, but it will still cost them actions. Even if they're sundering the thing that still means that they're locking themselves into a melee attack action where they're standing. So you can do things like quickdraw three mancatchers to full-attack-grapple three enemies during your turn, and only holding onto the last enemy who gets it much harder to escape. Best paired with the capability to cast the Mending cantrip so that you can easily repair broken mancatchers.>>97933975Preeeeeetty much.
>>97934336Greater Whip Mastery also lets you grapple at range.Expensive as fuck featery, but I saw a Strangler of all things use it to choke out a large dragon.
>>97933975>>97931706>>97931135>If the hair pulls your foe in, the WHW eats shit right after.>If the hair doesn't, the WHW is overpowered with at-will dye-bleached Black Tentacles.Guess that 40% thing was true.
>>97934579The class ability to let you pull enemies closer as a free (later errata'd to swift) action would be a dead feature if enemies just magically teleported next to you the moment the grapple was established. There's some other monsters and even equipment iirc that allow you to grapple at range without enemies automatically being pulled so it seems clear that's the intent, that's also why is says they can't just try and Sunder the hair or attack it separately, if they were automatically pulled into kissing distance of the witch that wouldn't be an issue, but an enemy with only 5-feet of reach being grappled 15 feet away trying to cut the hair is a reasonable idea which is why they pre-empt it. Constructed Pugilist has a similar feature to WHW and it explicitly says they can maintain the grapple for up to 40-feet of distance with the enemy, even though it also gives them the Grapple trait which normally pulls enemies to you. >Grapnel Arm: The constructed pugilist can fire a grappling hook built into her prosthesis. The grappling hook is attached to a 40-foot-long fine chain affixed to the limb. The constructed pugilist can attack with the grappling hook as a standard action, making a ranged touch attack against the target. >The grappling hook can’t be used as part of a full attack. On a successful hit, the grappling hook deals no damage, but it functions as though it had the grapple weapon special feature, except it requires only a hit (not a critical hit) and the grapple ends if the constructed pugilist moves more than 40 feet away from the grappled creature. The constructed limb can’t be used to make melee attacks until the grappling hook has been reloaded (a standard action).
>>97934744Isn't there a literal grappling gun from Technology Guide that does the same thing as the Pugilist?
>>97934744If your GM is nice, then the Witch can keep the enemies at bay. If the GM runs it RAW, your Witch pulls enemies adjacent and you're fucked.Ir doesn't matter that Paizo freelancers were retarded when they wrote it, the fact that feats like Greater Whip Mastery, Grapnel Arm and items like the Mancatcher specify you don't pull enemies closer if you don't want to but WHW does not (despite receiving errata) means they do by default with the written rules.
>>97934744>The class ability to let you pull enemies closer as a free (later errata'd to swift) action would be a dead feature if enemies just magically teleported next to you the moment the grapple was established. It would be a dead feature IF you were meant to grapple, trip, and pull simultaneously. Which you aren't. They all share the same trigger so the idea is that you choose one of the three options. Like, if the pull ability said it was an option when you succeeded on a grapple I'd agree with you. But they're clearly meant to be separate. The ability goes broader, not deeper.>even though it also gives them the Grapple trait which normally pulls enemies to you.Read >>97934336. That's the exact opposite of what the Grapple trait does. Quoting Grapnel Arm only disproves your argument further because here you have an ability which explicitly refers to the grapple trait which is the exception, and takes care to mention what happens if you move out of reach. Both which are absent from the WHW description. >>97934579>pic rel
>>97934841>RAW, your Witch pulls enemies adjacent and you're fucked.That's not RAW though. It's been discussed in detail further up the thread. It's just not how the WHW works. It's very basic fundamental stuff about how PF1e works. Specific mechanics override the general rules. That's true for literally everything in the game. You need to work on your reading comprehension skills.
>>97935593Nothing in WHW changes that a grappled enemy gets pulled adjacent or the grapple fails. WHW has nothing specific overruling that shit, unlike the other examples mentioned in this thread.So kindly shut the fuck up or show us where the archetype lets you do that.
>>97935704explain why whw has "pull" as a separate actionshow me where in the rules sleeping creatures count as unconsciousthere are things that are assumed because they're just common sense that don't need explicit bullshit to explain themthe reason whw doesn't pull targets is actually because the real reason normal grappling pulls targets is that the baseline combat rules are assuming you're a humanoid creature using your normal arms and hands to grapple a target... so if you have enlarge person running, then you'd pull them closer to you because that'd make more sense for a ten foot tall guy instead of him bending over awkwardly... that doesn't apply to the whw who's got magically animated tentacle hair squirming around in a twenty foot radius.otherwise, you now have the problem of trying to explain why the black tentacles spell wouldn't teleport all victims to spaces adjacent to the caster... good fucking luck with that.
>>97935922>otherwise, you now have the problem of trying to explain why the black tentacles spell wouldn't teleport all victims to spaces adjacent to the caster...I've unironically seen autistic pedants try and argue that before so he might just double down on it
>>97935922>explain why whw has "pull" as a separate actionSo that you do that instead of the grapple if you want to? If they're like, next to a pit. Not that you would, since it uses your CMB but doesn't let you sub your Int, so it's going to suck balls (like the Trip option)>show me where in the rules sleeping creatures count as unconsciousIrrelevant, and it wouldn't matter because all unconscious does is make you helpless, which is also what being asleep does, since:"A helpless character is paralyzed, held, bound, sleeping, unconscious, or otherwise completely at an opponent’s mercy. ">there are things that are assumed because they're just common sense that don't need explicit bullshit to explain themThen why do the grapple weapon trait, Greater Whip Mastery and so on bother to specify they can grapple characters at range?>he reason whw doesn't pull targets is actually because the real reason normal grappling pulls targets is that the baseline combat rules are assuming you're a humanoid creature using your normal arms and hands to grapple a target... so if you have enlarge person running, then you'd pull them closer to you because that'd make more sense for a ten foot tall guy instead of him bending over awkwardly... that doesn't apply to the whw who's got magically animated tentacle hair squirming around in a twenty foot radius.Nigger the fuck are you talking about? Big motherfuckers in PF have fuckhuge natural reach. A Kraken has 40 or 60 ft Reach and when it Grapples you it will pull you closer too, even though it could easily keep you out there. Your l'oreal ass isn't special.>otherwise, you now have the problem of trying to explain why the black tentacles spell wouldn't teleport all victims to spaces adjacent to the caster... Are you actually mentally retarded or are you just trolling? The spell is grappling fuckers, not the Witch. Hence why it only affects fuckers in the area, as well as having other restrictions.
>>97935922>otherwise, you now have the problem of trying to explain why the black tentacles spell wouldn't teleport all victims to spaces adjacent to the caster...NTA, but that's because you're not the one grappling them. The summoned tentacles are the ones grappling, which is why they have their own strength and size bonus. Like, they're summoned tentacles. Did you read the spell? At all? I feel like you've put zero thought into this. Problem solved you warthog-faced buffoon.>>97936034Bro did you really try to samefag by typing in lowercase first and replying to yourself? We can tell it's you. You type like a bitch.
>>97930504>There are too many variables you need to tell us. What kind of campaign is it?Just in general.I never even touched a few classes and I just want to learn how it works.>What do you mean "worth it"? What's your metric for how you evaluate "worth it"?Is it worth investing time trying to figure out how the class operates.Long and short, we lost Kyle in our table of fifteen years and our interest has been slowly dying, and I have this toxic mindset that when something important in my life ends, I decide it was a waste of my time.>How's this, why don't you ask yourself if you will enjoy it? Not whether it's "worth it". But whether you will enjoy playing that class.I may be over the hill in education, but very politely, learning things is enjoyable, Friendo.May I ask what you know about Kineticists?Did you have fun learning how they worked, if even just for 'Hm, curious' of it?
>>97938177You've spent more time agonizing in this thread, asking us what you should do than it would have taken to just read the two pages of text that comprise the class's mechanics.>>97936062Ok, well then it's the hair that's grappling them, not the witch... see where that's going?
>>97936041Counting as unconscious is extremely important for some spells. For example, do unconscious allies count as "willing" to be Teleported when you try to escape with them, or do they have to make a Will save to resist the spell?
>>97936062
>>97936041So you can attack a creature who has reach on you because you can reach its limbs while you are within its reach area, regardless of what your own reach is? Interesting. Usefully interesting. It basically means that being large just scales the number of enemies who can attack you in melee exponentially (with area).
>>97938464Well unconscious everything counts as willing for every spell, per the rules on targets:" Unconscious creatures are automatically considered willing, but a character who is conscious but immobile or helpless (such as one who is bound, cowering, grappling, paralyzed, pinned, or stunned) is not automatically willing."This line does also kind of answer that "asleep" includes unconscious since "asleep" is not included in the conditions that let you be conscious but helpless. And we know that sleep makes you helpless, so...>>97938481No, in the same way you can't Sunder someone's Longspear from 10 feet away despite the fact they can poke you with it out to 10 feet.That being said, the question of "Can you attack a creature's limb when it is using it to whack you from beyond your reach?" is, in fact "Yes", because we have the feat called Strike Back that lets you do exactly that.Now, the fact that you need BAB +11 to be able to do this is fucking retarded, and I allow anyone to Ready an action to whack a tentacle or whatever. But the rules do provide the ability.
>>97938580>and I allow anyone to Ready an action to whack a tentacle or whatever. But the rules do provide the ability.That's actually a feat.https://www.aonprd.com/FeatDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Strike%20BackFound it last week, funny enough.
>>97938873I know anon, that's why I mention it in the same fucking post you're quoting. Jesus christ do people in this site even read anymore.
>>97938915Yeah, I somehow completely glossed over it.That's on me, sorry dude.
>>97938580But "such as" does not imply that the list is complete. Explicitly, that list is designated as incomplete and is only provided as some examples. So by RAW there is no way to establish sleeping creatures are unconscious. That was the point.I know, you are probably mystified and bewildered by this fact, and it wouldn't make sense in plain language terms. So you probably are desperately trying to find some way to use the RAW to define sleeping as being unconscious. But that isn't how RAW works.The larger point I'm making is that RAW is not the ultimate last word about how to play the game. It has never been and can never be. That's why it's run by humans at a table. Not as computer simulation. So trying to use RAW in support of why some obscura should be fucked up to be useless is a fool's errand.The game isn't perfect as written. Humans are allowed to overrule the RAW, and are explicitly encouraged to do so. And this is a textbook case where it should be done.Just to clarify, I ban lots of classes and archetypes when I'm running PF1e and poorly written bullshit like the WHW are always on that list of banned content right alongside shit like Sacred Geometry. And it's not because I'm afraid players will make a bad decision and not realize that creatures should or shouldn't be pulled next to them. It's because of bullshit arguments that such ambiguous wording and bad design causes.I'm not actually fucking interested in whether the ability pulls a grappled creature. I'm interested in finding out how players reason through problems. And you demonstrated that you're among the most profoundly toxic sort. Whether you can or will fix that isn't something I'm interested in, because you'll never be at my table.
>>97938580Sounds like you agree that grapple and shit is all kinds of fucked up so there's no reason to care so much about the raw. Your rules lawyering is causing more damage than any kind of ad hoc ruling by the gm ever could. I don't think you realize that, either.
>>97938994>Just to clarify, I ban lots of classes and archetypes when I'm running PF1e and poorly written bullshit like the WHW are always on that list of banned content right alongside shit like SacrMind if I ask for examples, I think you mentioned the old Summoner before.Genuine interest.
>>97938994Look, since you mention you're interested in how players reason through their problems, lets walk you through both examples you've used:Yes, RAW the game never defines what being asleep is being unconscious, because it actually never defines what being asleep is. That's a ruling a GM will have to make. If you look at what the game actually shows though, we have:- The sleep spell rendering people helpless.- The undine's curse spell saying sleep is the same as being unconscious.- The dream shield spell saying falling asleep is a way of becoming unconscious.- Jason Buhlman pulling a classic Paizo 1e and clarifying in a forum post that he feels sleep=unconscious here:https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2lbmw&page=4?Unconscious-targets-considered-willing#163So I, as a GM, go "Ok, cool so being asleep is being unconscious and we go from there".With WHW, it's the same. It says they gain a natural attack, what damage it deals, and all other stuff. It also says on a hit, they can free action grapple, subbing INT for STR for the CMB check, and she doesn't gain the grapple condition when doing so. Cool.If we go read the grapple rules, they say when you succeed on a grapple you pull the grappled enemy to the nearest free space adjacent to you.So there is no ambiguity here, but you can rightfully say "wait, that sounds like shit, it can't work that way, surely?"To Be Continued
>>97939175Con'tSo you go look for examples, but you find that stuff that lets you keep people away when grappling them says so explicitly, which reinforces that the archetype is, indeed, fucking dogshit (because it is).You as a GM can therefore rule that this is stupid, and change it not just for the witch, but also for other creatures that suffer from this, like the Kraken, if you so wish to.But then you, as the GM, clearly found this too broken on the Witch, so you decided to go on 4chan and sperg out about how your ruling impacted the game, and when it was pointed out you dug your own fucking grave, you doubled down on the side of sperging about an archetype you either misunderstood or changed and don't even allow in your games.So this was in the end a retard wasting a whole lot of time, and a different retard (myself) wasting his by trying to explain how shit actually works.
Why do basic zombies have 20 hit points but basic skeletons only have 4 in PF2e?
>>97939285Resistance 5 to Slashing/Physical might as well be an immunity to most martials not expecting a skeleton.It's also just a skeleton, not a whole ass corpse with the protection flesh and muscle and fat normally gives you.
So how to have a good time with savage Pathfinder with this mythic game master emulator?In my head this thing works well as a perpetual engine for my drawings.But I feel that something is missing. How do I escalate combat for solo rpg games?
>>97939285I'd assume its because the creature creation rules state that creatures woth resistances should have less HP while creatures with weaknesses should have more. Hell, they use zombies and skeletons as the example too:"Skeletons and zombies are a good example of the difference between these styles. Skeletons have resistances because they're bony and hard to hurt. Zombies, on the other hand, have more HP and a weakness to slashing damage—they're tougher, but their bodies aren't built to deflect weapon attacks, and slashing attacks can rip them up quickly"I do agree that the zombie shambler has a bit too much HP. Even with resistances, a normal martial with just +4 STR and a greatsword OHKOs a skeleton guard on a 6+ on the d12, meaning around 58% of the time. That same martial OHKOs the shambler only on an 11+, or 16% of the time.But then the skeleton is AC 16, so a starting Fighter hits them on 7+, while the Zombie's AC 12, so they get hit on a 3+. I think overall they both survive around the same.
>>97939285to give the power fantasy of pulling out a hammer and smashing them all to pieces in rusty shanktown while somebody trying to shoot a bow or stab them with a shortsword feels awful due to resistance 5 at level 1 you're literally better off smashing skeletons with your bare hands over using a slashing or stabbing weapon since unarmed attacks aren't turbo-cucked for everyone but monks without half a dozen feats, everybody gets a 1d4 fist or gauntlet no strings attached
>>97938467Like a biiiiiiiiiiiitch
>>97940755Sure, Jan.
I am playing cleric in PF1e (core only). I am currently 4th level.Are metamagic feats worth it? It seems like the cost would rarely be worth it (especially since I have access to all spells on new level, therefore I usually can just prepare better spell).I guess doubling spell duration would could be possible interesting, be we handwave a lot of time between the encounters, so it is hard to measure potential effect it woule have.I's probably take Skill Focus (Diplomacy) or something to boost my Channel Divinty instead, just want to be sure I am not missing something must have.
>>97941051At 4th level, there's nothing you really need. Later on stuff like Dazing Spell or Quicken Spell are very good, but for now you can only do +1 feats and while some of those are good, none of them are super good.This is mostly because of the Cleroc list though. Toppling spell on Magic Missile would be excellent but Cleric/Oracle doesnt have any [Force] spells at 1st level for you to slap it on IIRC
>>97941145Thank's for reassurance. Yes, the Cleric list makes this easier.(Also, thanks for reading my bad English, I see way too many typos, now.)
>>97886070I like providing mundane support and enabling party members. Heal, Craft, Blacksmith from Spheres, handing out negative conditions to enemies via stuff like Sniper Sphere's Entangling Shot or Pinning Shot.Where do people even look for games nowadays, especially if you're interested in 3pp or gestalt? For PF1e, mostly.
>>97929986Kineticist is... interesting at least? It's thematically fun, it has some cool things it can do, but it's also mechanically crippled. If your game has Spheres in it, just do whatever idea you had for Kineticist via Spheres instead and it will perform the same or a bit better, and it'll be an order of magnitude less required to jump through hoops and do stupid weird jank to enable it.
>>97931097>Kineticist>Targeting Touch ACSay goodbye to any amount of appreciable damage, also you are punching yourself in the dick to even do that damage.>WAOW I DO SO MUCH ON KINETICIST>Meanwhile, Zen Archer Monk, any gun characters, any save or suck caster, any rapid-shot+manyshot archer is doing what you do but better for free
2EI'm playing a Level 6 Thaumaturge/FA Marshal. Mirror+Regalia, Inspiring+Cunning Stances. DM let me have a magic item for my Regalia that allows me to change stances for one action, just to give me an action to use the Regalia so I can swap to it. Mapping forward, I'm on the fence about my next FA. After I pick up Reactive Strike at 8, I'm torn between Liberation Champion and Field Propagandist. Anyone have any experience with Propagandist? It's newer, it seems really cool, but how useful are Fabricate Truth and Invented Vulnerability in actuality? If I go Propagandist, I'll probably end up retraining my human ancestry level 9 feat to grab Champion, if only for the armor proficiency.
>>97945955Is your GM doing a custom campaign or an AP? Just trying to figure out what your level range and how much you will travel around and if you will return to those places. Also, what god do you worship for if you took Champion dedication?
Certainly isn't a cult.https://www.reddit.com/r/Pathfinder2e/comments/1svuk1p/i_love_pathfinder_and_made_a_video_exploring_its/
2eA bit confused about Confused Okay I mostly get Confused. You are off-guard and then spend your actions on either reaching the nearest random target or hitting it with Strike or cantrips. But are there any rules for how those Strikes and cantrips are done? Let's say you have a piercing weapon in one hand and a bludgeoning weapon in the other. If I know my randomly assigned target is weak to one should I always choose that? Even if it's an "ally"? Or should it be chosen randomly? What about if I have choice between lethal and non-lethal options and the only difference is the lethality? Can I intentionally pick the shittiest possible damaging cantrip when it's an "ally" and the best one when it's an enemy?
>>97947489>lethallity etc.You're surrounded by enemies. Do you pull your punches?
Me nopb. I want high danger tactics but also gay theatre kid drama. What I do?
>>97947489Though ambiguous, I always run Confused as the GM deciding all your actions, they just don't get the fine tune control you get when a PC is controlled. Like >>97947556 says, you dont know who's who, so why would you pull your punches?
>>97947006https://www.reddit.com/r/Pathfinder2e/comments/1sw30xt/you_guys_are_one_of_the_best_communities_ive_seen/
