I've been reading a little about this game and I want to know if He would be ok with me playing it. Does it promote Christian values? Or is it devil worship like d*ngeons and dr*gons?>>97901610>>97902659
Depends on if you're a retarded faggot and think fiction is real somehow.
>>97903334But enough about religion!
>>97903325No, the emperor was super explicitly an atheist
>>97903325
>>97903679Except he's not, not really. He knows the Chaos Gods are real, so by definition he is antitheist. An atheist does not believe. An antitheist willfully rejects gods with or without knowledge that they exist.
>>97903325>10 Jesus called the crowd to him and said, "Listen and understand.11 What goes into someone’s mouth does not defile them, but what comes out of their mouth, that is what defiles them."
>>97904240Had no idea "spitters are quitters" was the biblical view on the topic.
>>97903325I miss the days we'd have been sure op was just a shit troll instead of being suspicious his IP was coming from the Pentagon.
>>97903325why are black templar players like this
>>9790332540k in no fucking way promotes christianity lmao.There are no gods in 40k, even the "chaos gods" are more akin to extradimensional aliens that feed on the emotions of sapient lifeforms. The Emperor himself is just a powerful psychic whom people ended up worshipping as a false god against his express desires but due to his status as a crippled corpse kept on life support, he can't do anything about it.
>>97903325No. It’s full of occult (legit not in-game) references. For the initiated, it can be hilarious to read sometimes. Some of early creators and perhaps even a founder or two were definitely initiated in some occult teachings.
>>97904152>referring to inter-dimensional xenos as godsNo.
>>97904449Walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, it's a duck. Doesn't mean you have to get on your knees and beg for mercy.
>>97904430>>97904449>An incredibly powerful spiritual entity embodying a concept which affects the material world directly and indirectly with supernatural powers?>umm, that's not a hecking real god
>>97904483Correct. At least not a god in the christian conception. None of the chaos gods are responsible for the creation of the universe let alone the stuff the god of the kikes in the bibble is said to be responsible for. Chaos gods are powerful warp entities, not gods in the sense of abrahamic religions.
>>97904496>Chaos gods are powerful warp entities, not gods in the sense of abrahamic religions.Debatable. The Bible refers to the inanimate Golden Calf idol as a god, and the commandment is worded "Thou shalt have no other gods BEFORE me." Implicitly other gods exist, but the word does not necessarily imply any actual power or even existence.
>>97904516>god is a politicaly kingly entityNo. It is the source. Don’t confuse the Jewish patron demiurgic Yahweh (which by the way was one of many elohim) with Jesus’s one true source. A bunch of midwits up in here.
>>97904528>Gnostic Christian splitting hairs over a co-opted name for Odin used as a common noun in relation to the abstract concept of deities worshipped by various culturesFor what purpose
>>97904528>gnosticspergoh boy, here we go
>>97904559Nope. I’m not religious. I’ve got a large collection of books and have read through the major religions.
>>97904556Explaining the difference in belief structure. Just because someone said they were god doesn’t make it so.
>>97903325Where in the bible does Christ give any commentary on media consumption?
>>97904594Proper noun God is not the same thing as common noun god. Common noun god refers to an abstract entity or even the hypothetical concept thereof. You don't have to believe in the gods of the Samaritans to communicate the fact that they were classified as alleged beings that the Samaritans directed worship toward.
>>97903325No.
>>97903325Nah. It's never stated outright, but overwhelmingly implied that the Emperor just plain was Jesus, and his attempt at the unification of man through empathy and pacifism was written off as a good try.
>40k is the first fiction I have read since 9/11
>>97904628The little subplot of the Emperor being a bunch of different religious figures like Abraham, Moses, Jesus, Buddha, Mohammad, etc. got retconned the fuck out and aggressively memory holed forever.
>>97903325Post you minis. You wont becayse you dont even play the game.
>>97904646Why would I already have minis? I'm asking if Warhammer 40k is morally acceptable for Christians. If I were already playing the game I would not be asking this question.
>>97904658Yeah and you never will. Fucking secondary newfag.
>>97903325>>97904658Alright so here's the deal: The Emperor is an immensely powerful psychic human being that had been waiting for humanity to discard the things he believed were holding it back including religion. Even as humanity entered a golden age of technology (later referred to as the Dark Age of Technology), he just sat back and watched. When this golden age ended, around the time of the Fall of the Eldar, human civilization completely collapsed and its interstellar empire was shattered.The Emperor decided it was time to take charge, waged a military campaign to conquer the war-torn Earth, and then initiated a Great Crusader to reunite humanity under his rule. He had practically zero tolerance for aliens or religion in general, particularly chaos-related religions. This whole time he knew the Chaos gods existed and his purpose in pushing atheism on humans was to deprive these malevolent beings of powers.Eventually the Emperor's favored "son" (genetically engineered warrior-freak) turned against him and fell to Chaos. The ensuing Civil War shattered the Imperium, put the Emperor in a coma, and fucked everything up in a big way. Over the next 10,000 years humanity started worshipping the Emperor as a god and formed the Imperial Cult. The modern Imperium is a mockery of its former self in many ways and effectively on life support. It wields authoritarianism and hatred as weapons in a desperate struggle to survive against abstract evils made manifest that want to consume the universe.It does not adhere to Christian cosmology in any way, and indeed Christendom has been dead for tens of thousands of years as of the 42nd millenium. Also there is only war, etc.
>>97903325it's worse then D&D, 40k is explicitly a way to engage in the theatrics of evil without committing acts of evil, rotting the soul but keeping their hands clean enough to delude the mind with ignorance.don't be fooled by some of it's catholic imagery, it is there to be twisted and perverted so a player might indulge in the theatrics of the anti-christ
Dont play this faggot ass game. Just play historicals, crusaders vs mudshits will be up your alley.
>>97903373Alright, ill give you a (you) for that, that was a good and quick witty response.Fuck you, you Godless heathen, but still, funny as fuck, well done.
>40k is the first fiction I have read since 9/11Americans.
>>97903325No, rampant sin is encouraged and virtue is defaced.The people worship a false god.Hope leads to corruption no one truly saves a person's soul.Love is exploited and the poor are treated as animal. All planets are guilty of the crimes of Sodom and Gomorrah.
>>97904695Then again, it draws on many historical and current religious imagery and references.Emperor - dies and is 'semi' reborn to guide humanity to a better future, sits on a golden throne, worshipped by most of humanity, etcPrimarchs - many resemble Saints and angelsSpace marines - holy warriors of the god emperor - Templars, Dark Angels, etc.Soritas - Joan of Arc and nunsTitans - biggest are walking cathedralsImperial spaceships - space going CathedralsInquisition - Spanish Catholics, Klu Klux ClannersMechanicus - worships machine spirits as divineWarp - Hell, four Satans (representing four of the deadly sins/horsemen of the apocalypse) full of fucking demons and the fallen that are constantly trying to corrupt/destroy humanity.
>>97903325It's a satirical take on modern society, warfare, religion, politics, power and belief, wrapped around a children's level wargame. If you are a true Christian, you would be better off spending your time and money doing good works that aid others and improve the world, not wasting it on an overpriced wargame designed to appeal to kiddies and the emotionally and intellectually stunted.
>>97907225>Primarchs - many resemble Saints and angelsAn odd quirk of the nature of their being. Primarchs are warp-things first and human second. The Emperor once compared them to Pinocchio, and that he indulges their view of him as a father because the truth is far more terrible.>Soritas - Joan of Arc and nunsOddly enough some Sororitas end up as "Living Saints" even more warp-related than the Space Marines, and perhaps not as benevolent as they themselves imagine. Every time Celestine dies she wakes up on a bed of skulls. It's hard to imagine that as anything but a sign of Khorne.>Mechanicus - worships machine spirits as divineTo a degree. The Mechanicus worships tradition because it believes humanity has risen to the greatest technological heights it ever will circa the Dark Age of Technology. To invent or iterate is to deny this truth, which is why they hyperfocus in on tradition and ritual. Within that belief paradigm you can see why the idea of xenotech is so tempting.
>>97904483If they allow flexible god-definitions to exist, their presup-faithsystem collapses like a house of cards. It would cause an existential crisis.
>>97904483Correct because they exist within reality, hell within the Milky WayThey're just big fat xenos
>>97904483They're bloated parasitical ticks sucking at the teat of emotion and belief.They're not gods, just sentient warp storms pretending to be more than they are.
>>97907311>The Emperor once compared them to Pinocchio, and that he indulges their view of him as a father because the truth is far more terribleYou're a fucking idiot. The defining feature of Gepetto is he would sell the clothes off his own back so his son could have something, and that he loves his son with all his heart that that he might be a real human boy.People who call the Pinocchio allegory a gotcha for the Emperor being indulgent of tools don't actually know anything about Pinocchio and are only revealing their midwit status.
>>97904643Because it really doesn't make any fucking sense and makes him look like a schizophrenic
>>97908121>You're a fucking idiot.No, you. The Emperor indulging the Primarchs' delusions was some combination of convenience and pity, much like Gepetto. Do you think Gepetto ever really thought Pinocchio could become a real boy? No. He just indulged the idea because it would have been terribly cruel to break his creation's heart and dreams.>>97908128He kinda is dude. Guilliman's telepathic conversation with the Emperor was all over the place.
>>97903325troll thread, but for anyone wondering -- 40k is good enough for the dominican order to start an outreach action where a priest streams himself playing rogue trader crpg.
>>97908185While I made a post earlier and said 40k doesn't follow the cosmology of Christendom, I do have to admit that the surface level faith aspects of the Imperium are very evocative of Christianity's values. Even if the Imperial Cult's origins are warped (literally) the piety exalted by it is supposed to be a positive force. It is just as often subverted, misapplied, or abused but so is any faith.40k is a setting where there is both deranged warrior nuns that purge the mutant, but also sisters hospitaller that tend to the oppressed and the broken. The merciful and tolerant often pay for their grace, or are even crushed by the intolerant abusers, but they exist. Therein lies the relevance to Christianity which is, perhaps ironically, a forgotten lesson of its origin. Christ was hated by the rabbinical clergy because he spoke out against abuse of the law and merciless punishment of desperate sinners. 40k Darktide has a plot-relevant character that portrays a very similar situation: Saint Messelina, beloved by the common people and tolerant even of psykers, betrayed by vain and corrupt priests.
>>97907225Trying to hammer a square peg in a round holeLol
>>97904240He said giving a harsh glare at the prostitute who spat instead of swallowed.
>>97903325>I consume a lot of content>I haven't read a book in over 20 years
>>97904516>"Thou shalt have no other gods BEFORE me." Implicitly other gods existBut this isn't saying other God's exist, it is saying that you should not worship other God's. You can worship a God that doesn't exist.
>>97908749>it is saying that you should not worship other God's.Except that's not precisely what it's saying, is it? Even older than Mosaic Judaism is the Semitic Pantheon from which it is derived. Judaic cosmology is very much a Post-Bronze Age thing. There were older conceptualizations of the entity that has become known by the name "God" which itself is derived from Germano-Norse cosmology and 9th century Saxon converts to Christendom.
>>97903325yeah, He plays Orks
>>97908779>Except that's not precisely what it's saying, is it?It also isn't precisely saying >Thou shalt have none of the other gods before me.>There were older conceptualizations of the entity that has become known by the name "God" which itself is derived from Germano-Norse cosmology and 9th century Saxon converts to Christendom.If you don't believe in the Christian Bible or the Laws and the Prophets why are you trying to debate your interpretation of what is being said in it?The Hebrew text translates to >There shall not be to you other gods upon my face.God is not telling his followers there are other gods, he is saying that you should not worship other things as gods.
>>97903325Honestly it amazes me how badly the Catholic Church fucked up when it comes to its public image in modern daysIn its roots (i.e. the actual teachings of Christ and most early communities), Christianity really is a religion of pacifism, humility, charity and harmonious coexistence with your fellow humans. The Church still is by far the biggest charitable and humanitarian aid organisation in the world and over the ages did unimaginable amount of good work in areas of healthcare, education and aiding the poor, including in poorly developed countries.And yet most right wing chuds who wish to be trad and conservative have a mental image of the Church and Christianity that entirely revolves around violence and prejudice, around muh deus vulting infidels or stomping degeneracy. Sure, Crusades did happen, shitload of prejudice and other bad shit is also a part of Church's history, but really from the point of view of its dogma and entire history these were more of an anomaly and sign of times rather than its defining characteristic. Ironically a religion that is actually fully committed to Christian ideals would probably appeal more to modern leftie women than actual conservative men
>>97908815>If you don't believe in the Christian Bible or the Laws and the Prophets why are you trying to debate your interpretation of what is being said in it?Because I'm not a hyper-literalist evangelical retard sitting comfortably under 2000 years of accumulated fanfiction, translation errors, and presumptions that the text as I see it is interpreted with total precision.>God is not telling his followers there are other gods, he is saying that you should not worship other things as gods.Anon that's self-contradictory. If there are no other gods then why exactly is God telling them not to worship other gods? The concept of a god separate from God is empirically implicit in the very notion of the commandment. Whether or not that god "exists" in the sense they are an actual sapient non-physical entity capable of influencing reality is irrelevant.
>>97908859>If there are no other gods then why exactly is God telling them not to worship other gods?He is telling them to have no gods before him, which you can do without them being real.Which, mind you, is something that they did often in their history. If they were entities that existed, they were something like Demons that simply convinced people that they were gods. That is plausible, but the text is not saying "There are other gods" as a matter of fact.Here is some more scripture to contextualize this.>Deuteronomy 32:17 - They sacrificed to false gods, which are not God, gods they had not known, gods that recently appeared, gods your ancestors did not fear.>Psalms 96:5 - All the gods of the nations are idols, but the Lord made the heavens.>Isaiah 45:5 - I am the LORD, and there is no other; apart from me there is no God.
>>97908897>He is telling them to have no gods before him, which you can do without them being real.>Which, mind you, is something that they did often in their history.Correct on both accounts, which is why I'm not entirely sure what point we are disagreeing on or why you asked me why I "don't believe.">but the text is not saying "There are other gods" as a matter of fact.But the text is premised on the concept thereof. That's what I'm getting at. The notion itself requires the admission that other things, entities or no, are gods. I'm thinking maybe we don't disagree quite as much as is apparent and that this is simply a semantic misunderstanding.
>>97908910>The notion itself requires the admission that other things, entities or no, are gods.It requires that others may perceive them as gods, not that they are actual other gods. I think that is the core of what we are disagreeing on. It is possible that other entities exist and tricked people into worshiping them as gods, but that does not make them gods and the text does not support the idea that it does. God isn't implicitly claiming that they are gods and not to worship them as such, he is saying that humans may wrongfully recognize them as gods and worship them as such. >or why you asked me why I "don't believe."The question I asked was why are you arguing about what the Bible's teaches if you don't believe in the Bible. My reason for asking this is because the Bible is explicitly monotheistic in it's teaching, as shown by other scriptural citations, so the notion that other gods exist in the Bible is foundationally incompatible with the Bible.I don't understand the notion of arguing within the boundaries of what the Bible says without believing that what it says is true, because it is a lot easier to argue "the Bible is not accurate and there are many gods" rather than "The Christian God implies there are other gods in the explicitly monotheistic text."
>>97904449>Psychic gestalt constructs of humanity's soul that have gained power over us culturally and seek to turn us against eachother via tribalism for their own worship instead of a unified species fulfilling our purpose>Not gods
>>97908942>It requires that others may perceive them as gods, not that they are actual other gods. I think that is the core of what we are disagreeing on.Would we have this disagreement if the homonymous nature of the two concepts were different? There seems to be some irrational conflation of the status of a "god", the reality of a "god", and the position of God in relation to that.>God isn't implicitly claiming that they are gods and not to worship them as such, he is saying that humans may wrongfully recognize them as gods and worship them as such.But then there are idols which not any sort of entity at all that exist solely as symbols. These too are considered "gods.">The question I asked was why are you arguing about what the Bible's teaches if you don't believe in the Bible.Do you really trust the eighth translation of a book consolidated by an organization made up of people you don't know and never met over a thousand years before you were born that arbitrarily declared certain components of early Christian scripture apocrypha? Believing the way you or your cleric interpret the Bible must be 100% correct is as dangerous and stupid as being 100% certain you are not going to Hell no matter what you did or will ever do.>I don't understand the notion of arguing within the boundaries of what the Bible says without believing that what it says is trueBecause you believe anything less than blind faith in altered texts with philosophical, cultural, and historical significances lost to time is a requirement to believe in the first place. How many versions of the Bible do you trust, pray tell? All of them? I doubt it.
Am I being trolled? There aren't actually christfags retarded enough to think that 40k aligns with christian theology let alone cosmology in any fucking way, right?
>>97909135The only part of 40k that aligns with Abrahamic cosmology is probably Post-Fifth-Retcon Ollanius Pius and the athame dagger he came into possession of, but the legend could just as easily be a vestigial remnant of Judaic myth that managed to survive into the 30th millennium.
>>97908819>Muh charityIs fake.Not just fake, but heinously criminally fraudulent."Charity" has always been a screen for the exertion of "soft power".That's why Western nations have plenty of home grown misery of their own, but send all their "Charity" abroad.Nobody who isn't a WEF mugwump, or a myopic retard credits billionaires and sprawling conspiratorial organizations for their "Charity".
>>97903325No, it's not for you.
>>97909135christ redeems all, even the mentally retarded
>>97905545>these 2999 other gods, many of which predate my religion are fake, but MINE is the real deal because shut up
>>97909409>Be Jesus>Sitting with homies in temple>Points out rich guy making a show of giving a lot of money to charity>Tell homies that while it may seem like a lot of money, it's fuck all for the rich guy>Also tell them rich guy is only giving the money to make himself look good>Call him a jackass>Point out little old lady sneaking up to charity box>"Don't look, don't look, don't make it obvious you're looking">She drops in a couple of bucks>It's fuck all really>Tell buddies that, that's actually quite a bit of money for her>Probably more then she can afford>Point out that she's not doing it for show>She really does just want to help people>Tell friends that's what everyone should do>Help people, not for the sake of making yourself look good, but to help people>Be present day>Be retarded faggot on Argentinian Sandal Appreciation Network>Think that Charity is exclusively the rich guy in the Jesus story
>>97903325Taking the hypothetical premise of Christ approving of Warhammer, I think the much more interesting question to ask is what army Jesus is rolling up with?
>>97903325You're not a Christian and you made this thread to make us eat each other. I'm not going to play.
