I hope this isn't against the rules, I was hoping to have a serious discussion on the streamed Cyberpunk game that people considered to have gone incredibly wrong to where they blame the GM and consider him to be a creep or predator now. I believe his name is Adam Koebel. I've seen the game and what he did was insist that the character Johnny plug a wire into the back of his head and he experienced an ecstasy from it. After that session their campaign unceremoniously ended, and his players turned on him. No matter where I look it seems like people think he subjected his players to some form of fetish, but I do not understand where they're coming from. To me it seems like they must have had something against him other than that, sort of a straw that broke the camel's back situation. I've seen people who continued to play in campaigns that experienced far worse gross negligence than this. Is this a case of higher standards due to the nature of the live streamed for audience?
>>97919612People are retards.That is all.
>To me it seems like they must have had something against him other than thatThan that's that. You've made up your mind, no one should be interested in defending either the group or the GM, so we can just write this all off as a group of miserable losers you shouldn't waste your, or anyone else's, time thinking about.E-celebs, E-drama, and all that other fiction is about as real as reality television, and having worked in that industry before it was largely supplanted by influencers and pod casts and what not, I promise you that you're much better off indulging in any other form of media, or better yet going outside and interacting with real people in real situations.
>>97919676Well I just worry about the ramifications in the medium. What if I wanted to run an edgy game and I make the mistake of offending one of them. What could happen to my future career goals.
>>97919726>the ramifications in the mediumThere are none.Those people aren't real, they have no barring on actual hobby.
>>97919741Dungeon World might have been a bigger name in the industry. Kobel might have grown to the fame that Mercer commands.
>>97919612It will probably trigger somebody. Koebel's problem was that he was a proto-SJW in a public online space with people who further along the pipeline as his fans. It was a terrible choice in front of a terrible demo in a terrible place, kinda of like if one decided to have Twitch Cthulhu session and the KKK appeared to lynch all the catholic and brown characters while talking about those how those filthy niggers and papists are going to burn in hell.
>>97919612When you've built your career on open communication and safety tools, and then, on a live actual play, you do weird creep shit to a female Player's character, it doesn't really look good. And yeah "I'm going to force your character to have an orgasm, lol" is weird creep shit.If I recall correctly, after it happened, one or more of his previous romantic partners came forward and said "yeah, he was a huge shithead to us, this isn't surprising."
>>97919778Even if you take the """"sjw"""" out of it, it was still an incredibly creepy thing to do, and the PC was obviously unhappy about it.
>>97919797They were upset only after the session, and after discussing it among themselves. They didn't voice any concerns to the GM at all. They simply turned around and tried to cancel him a few days later.
>>97919791It's weirder to me that they would wait for an opportunity to dog pile him. Suspicious timing as all hell.
>>97919961It was very obvious that they were uncomfortable during the session, and didn't know how to deal with it (which, in and of itself is kind of a rebuke of the safety toolsbthat Koebel championed, but that's a different topic.) Also, they were in the middle of a production, essentially work. That's how that shit happens.>>97919965How is "a guy that we know to be a creep privately but has social capital so we don't want to speak about it, but now the public at large has seen him do something weird and creepy so we can speak out without immediately being ignored."Do people on here not have interpersonal relationships? Do you not get that this stuff happens? The very fact that you find it suspicious is exactly why people don't immediately come forward about shit like this.
>>97919627Fpbp /Thread
>>97920089>How is "a guy that we know to be a creep privately but has social capital so we don't want to speak about it, but now the public at large has seen him do something weird and creepy so we can speak out without immediately being ignored."NTA but it smacks of cowardice to me. If they actually had a problem with his behaviour then they ought to speak or they're complicit.
>>97919726If you don't want to get buggered then don't associate with faggots.
>>97920162Okay, so the answer is yes, you've apparently never interacted in human groups before. Right on.
>>97919612The whole situation was fucking stupid, but the people who spun it as Koebel sexually assaulting a player were being hysterical retards. Koebel should have read the room better, but also if all of the players were so traumatized and shocked by a robot being hooked up to a pleasure program (a thing the player agreed to and did not question in the moment) they had plenty of time to say something, tap the X-card (or any other safety tool which they were using to my understanding), or otherwise stop and ask questions in the moment.
>>97920276NTA, but fuck off. If you don't have the balls to get into fights with people you're having troubles with then you're going to get walked all over and taken advantage of. This absolutely reeks of cowardice.
>>97919612He raped a female players character when he knew that person was a RL SA surviver.he himself had condemned the very Ideas of GMs doing that, was a face of "consent in roleplaying" and giggled as he raped a SA survivors character live on twitch.
>>97920334Yeah, I'm really gonna take the opinion of a fuckin' keyboard warrior on an anime diaperfur slashfic webzone on cowardice. Come back when you've drank a beer and touched a boob you absolute fucking embarrassment.
>>97920492NTA, but that is a really pathetic attempt at a rebuttal. You seem like a little bitch that lets people walk all over him.
>>97920527>NTA BUT HERES THE SAME SENTENCES AGAIN nta,lmao you fuckwit. Other guy sucks too so at least you can know you both suck cocks and are bad at games.
>>97919612The faggot deserved it, even if what he did was a nothingburger. He happily led the charge on many a "cancel" campaign himself. These people always turn on each other.
>>97919748>Dungeon World might have been a bigger name in the industry. Possible. It fell off hard after Stranger Things / Critical Roll got big.>Kobel might have grown to the fame that Mercer commands.Never would have happened.
>>97919612>Adam Koebeljewish
>>97919791Dont'f forget said safety tool turning out to be useless.
>>97919612It was rape you clueless retard
>>97919961Uh yeah? You don't stop a live show in the middle of it. Have you ever had a job?
>>97922415It's even worse. It was rape and the Player was an SA survivor IRL.
>>97922556>the Player was an SA survivor IRLSturmabteilung not doing its job, I see.
>>97922556>survivorIt's a cruel thing, of course. But why do people call it 'survivor'? did she almost die?
>it was rape >various kvetching Dude was an idiot but everyone else involved was too. This is dumb shit happening to dumb people in inane circumstances. Its also telling its various /pol/ slapfighting when none of you post the fucking video so people can see for themselves and make an assessment. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cUoenthEiHA
>>97922828It's more about recovery and mindset I think. Victim vs survivor, those terms can really get into your head. I have known two, they both used survivor as it helped them get in a mindset to deal with the trauma.I guess it's all in if you see yourself as a victim or as someone who survived something. At the end of the day, who am I, who had never had to live though it,to disagree with what terms they need to use to overcome it.
>>97923006>At the end of the day, who am I, who had never had to live though it,to disagree with what terms they need to use to overcome it.Its actually this full abandonment of responsibility and dialogue that creates social structures of power lacking accountability and recreating abuse. Its even in the kobel example you're upset about.
>>97923052 The OP was upset the guy was held responsible for his actions. Using the term survivor is not somehow absolving a fucking rapist or creep of his actions.The dude roleplayed out a rape on a female players character, while giggling the whole time and was held accountable for it.
>>97923082>fails to address the issue>falls back to requiring everyone to become fully invested in one side with no discernment If anyone NEEDS you to do this sort of shit, they are in fact also bad actors creating groundwork for their own abusive practices.
>>97923082They didn't tap the X card. That means they consented.
>>97923100No son, they didn't. They were shocked the consent poster boy on a live play was giggling as he raped a character
>>97923098Which is it? Do you want people to be held responsible or not? Because you keep changing sides here.
>>97920089Nah man.I'm the crazy friend that beats you up for taking benzos and shagging rentboys and tells your mum to put your inheritance in trust.
>>97923185Which poster do you think I am and why do you think responsibility would be a one way interaction?
>>97923452You are the one who responded to my post, if you were not the first in that change you need to indicate that.And when it comes to violation of convention and rape there is only one person at fault.
>>97922999Can't even be rape, because the player and the character both agreed to it. People exaggerated the scene to make the subsequent overreaction feel more genuine.>it was rape!>the player was an SA survivor!>he brutally and maliciously abused a player on a live stream! >everyone at the table was SO UNCOMFORTABLE (they all just sat there and barely reacted, and then said nothing)Instead of practicing the safety shit they preach, all of the players decided amongst themselves, only after their audience and fans crawled up their collective asses, that they would all quit the show, and refuse contact with Koebel over something so heinous that the could not talk about it in specific terms or even share the clip for context. Meanwhile, said fans went around demanding everyone who worked with Koebel in any capacity should fire him and exile him for fictional "rape"
>>97923838>I'll just make up a situation and be really fucking mad about it! Yeah, that's a good use of my time!
>>97923844All of that actually happened, though. Especially the part about hunting down any employer or collaborators of Koebel's to get him removed from projects, podcasts, blogs, etc.
>>97919612Wasn't Koebel literally the guy who invented the X-card?
>>97923855That was some other guy, but by their own admission, the live-streamed game was supposed to be using safety tools and x-cards and a whole table of pearl-clutching faggots didn't once stop to say>this is making me uncomfortableOr anything else. Even though Koebel was being a retard and wasn't reading the room and wasn't practicing any of the things he's written in the few RPG books he's actually published (like being transparent about actions and consequences with players, and "telegraphing" things in the open), if any of the players were so disgusted and so outraged by what was happening, they chose not to say it and then chose not to behave like adults and talk it out in private.Everyone involved is a faggot and a retard.
>>97923640Go further back than that. >more absolutism appeals to emotion Yeah, nah, everyone can see you're an idiot and will say so. This will happen to you from various people.
>>97923878For all we know, they did talk about it private, and Koebel was an asshole.They finished the stream, and decided they didn't want to play with him anymore. That seems like a pretty fucking adult response to me.
>>97924067>They decided they wanted money more than principals espouced and then used those claims to blacklist someone Adam was a shithead, but so wish everyone else in this story.
OP here, I am going to highlight why this whole thing is so weird to me. There's a scene in the first episode of the anime Cyberpunk Edgerunners, based on the tabletop RPG Cyberpunk Red. David Martinez is blindsided by a sex brain dance sent by his ripper, where three naked chicks are full on forcing sex on him. This is actual and literal rape. David's response is to "cut it out". More importantly, NO VIEWER HAS EVER CALLED OUT THIS SCENE EVER. Then we have this debacle with Adam Kobel which anon gracious shared the clip >>97922999 in which no rape actually occurs and has been greatly exaggerated by third parties in retrospect. Maybe the choice word "orgasm" was in bad taste by the GM's part, but what we're seeing is less insidious than a lot of stories of railroaded games I've seen. I really suspect that people simply wanted to career assassinate him.
>>97924140It's fuckin' bizarre to me how you have to make up a narrative to make this anything than more than man being a fucking creep in a public forum, and people not wanting to work with or support him because he acted like a fucking creep.
>>97924708It's fucking bizarre that you guys ran with this narrative that he is any creepier than the next person.
>>97924708>creepMa'am, you're on 4chan.
>>97924344Every time this topic comes around, it takes a while for anyone to post the clip and even when you put the exact context and aftermath in front of people, you still get faggots who will insist that it was worse and more repulsive than it actually was.
>>97925063If my GM was dead set on giving my character an orgasm, I'd probably stop playing with that GM, because it's a fucking creep ass move.
>>97925208If you afraid of the dongle jack in, in a Cyberpunk setting, I think you in the wrong game.
>>97919797no she wasn't. you could barely tell what happened. it was the level of an of color joke snuck into a kids movie. It was her chat that talked her into being offended.I am not a sex positive person and a prude, and I had no clue what happened.And lastly it was a character that did it, not the DM. Characters need to be able to take actions to inform who they are supposed to be.
>remember that time Q made Data experience an extreme emotion of joy and laughter without his consent? He raped Data. Data was raped by Q making him feel sensations and feelings against his willThat's it. That's the whole fucking controversy. A robot character told his mechanic that he wanted to have more human experiences, so the mechanic found a program that "felt like an orgasm" for him. Instead of roleplaying it out and saying "my character didn't like that" they hyperbolized the entire thing and everyone acted like huge faggots about a game of pretend.
Imagine having to listen to that fucking voice changer for the entire game LOL
>>97925450if you watch it, it was that fucking bitch Vana. the curly blonde haired one. It's not even clear to me if the robot had a sexual experience or was upgraded and the DM being a degen described the sensation as an orgasm.No human sexual act was simulated or described, usb type thing was inserted into a dataport on the back of a neck of a robot that needed repairs.But the blonde bitch acts weird the entire time.
>>97919612Virtue Signaler cultivated a hyper critical audience and pushed the joke over the line so the leopards ate his face.>>97925450>>97925556The entire situation could of been avoided if he just didn't use the word orgasim. Using the word itself made it made it seem like he was getting to it and destroyed any potential deflection he could of made.Hell ERP and genral horny content at the table was driven out of "polite society" in regards to Tabletop in part because the 5e boom severed the cultural tie with classical pulp and because of people like Kobel pushing for it.
>>97924708Its sadly not bizarre to me at all how obviously you want to create a good vs evil narrative and constantly appealing to a bullshit common morality while being unable to engage in anything more complex than public shaming. Again, everyone involved was dumb. Adam's a shit head. The fallout was encouraged by shitheads. None of them are hurt in ways that are dire or important. You however, are an insidious snake of a man, primarily interested in convincing everyone you have a moral high ground to browbeat with. We've all seen it enough over the last decade to see through it. Go away, you're a joke.
>>97925412>It was her chat that talked her into being offended.This dialogue would be interesting to see actually.
>>97925450Yup, and it's really disappointing in a medium perfect for exploring these fantasy experiences from the comfort of your own home.
>>97925556What a vapid cunt too. Made it entirely about herself, when Johnny is a character played by the other woman.
>>97925624It's wild how that word alone crippled his career. People call things orgasmic all the time. If he had just said euphoria, then they wouldn't have ate their own.
>>97919612Basically, Koebel is the poster child for PC, social justice bullshit. He literally fought to remove white male creators from the hobby (while being a white male creator), championed every SJW agenda possible, was a big pusher of using the X-card, and more. The same guy ran off his partners from gaming by being an extreme lefty nut with a toxic ass personality. THAT guy ran an actual play where a female player was playing a male PC and he had an NPC basically force her character to have a bunch of orgasms against their will which nobody at the table was cool with because it clearly crossed a line.Given his social circle he curated by being an extreme lefty, they of course were on his ass like sharks on chum.So, fuck em.
>>97919612I was expecting the mechanic character to wrap their hands around Johnny's girth and jack him off lol.
>>97925836That's what I hear, he led some cancel crusades himself
>>97925764The trap is that he used the word in relation to another person, even just saying orgasm in relation to yourself experiencing something is still fine if a bit intense, but the moment you use it in relation to another even on a meta level, their is no other thought of interpretation than it being a sex thing.
>>97925871I just rewatched it, I think what happened is that they cringed and didn't know how to react. The chat must have told them afterwards that they think it's rape. It's weird that Johnny would put their hand on the mechanic and tell them they are open to new experiences, then for the plug to be located on the back of their head, and for it to be described as a brain stimulation, to set anyone off after the session was over and in retrospect. It all sounds like drugs, not sex.
>>97925902Yep which is why that one word fucked it up.
>>97925871You're attributing caveman mystic qualities to what biologically amounts to a more specialized sneeze. People orgasm involuntarily all the time, they didn't get raped by themselves retard.
>>97925862You mean THIS guy was a social justice dipshit?Who could have guessed?
>>97925924I'm attributing common cultural understanding to the term and how it is used.My entire focus in this discussion has been rooted in the social not the ontological.
>>97926001How dare you toss word salad at me you trollop.
>>97925757>Wow my character had a new experience and it made him feel strange, uncomfortable feelings>this would probably make for great character-focused roleplay where we get to explore what an android thinks about extreme, overwhelming pleasure after not knowing how that feels at all>...>nah.>let's burn this motherfucker at the stake because he said "orgasm" lmaoI've put player characters through far worse and far more traumatic situations than that and these fucking retards killed a man's career over practically nothing.
>>97925836>he had an NPC basically force her character to have a bunch of orgasms against their willThat's not what happened, retard.
>>97925926he has a neckbeard though, I would assume he is just a normal grognard
>>97926201That was my impression too, I've seen far worse examples of railroading then this supposed robotic rape.
>>97919726if you offend them and you're concerned about the consequences.... apologize. say "woops, it wasn't my intent to make you upset. thanks for explaining to me how that hurt you, i'll do my best not to let that happen again. that must have sucked for you"it's not hard, and it's an insane hack you can use to get all sorts of perks as a functioning adult with bare-minimum communication skills
>>97925836Sleeping with dogs. Catching fleas. Etc.Same as with Zak whatshisname. That faggot cultivated the exact kind of community that chose to crucify him over a bunch of rumors some trannies made up. I even recall people talking about how mister "I play D&D with porn stars" was a fucking idiot for drinking the male feminist kool-aid. And then they fucking obliterated him over nothing.
>>97925926Well now that I see a picture, I am reminded of certain groups of people that constantly leverage their status as a protected class to get away with sexual harassment and mental molestation.
>>97926287Much as I hate the guy and think he's a giant faggot, there doesn't seem to be any evidence of sexpestery. All the earlier posts in this thread insisting that he was a well-known creep are just post-hoc accusations so it sounds more reasonable for a bunch of oversensitive e-celeb retards to crucify him for saying "orgasm" on a livestream.
>>97926260The people who came after Zak weren't his circle of friends, it was all Internet people. Everyone he actually knows in real life has, at worst, just not said anything, but for the most part stood by him.
>>97923850>hunting down any employer or collaboratorsThis was the most insidious part of the whole thing. You'd think he pinned the dumb bitch down and raped her in real life, rather than all the players staring like retarded guppies and then (the player behind the robot in particular) not saying a fucking word in the moment.
>>97926642Aside from Mandy and Vivka, from what I recall. That whole thing was weird, makes me wonder if those two were insufferable in the eyes of everyone else involved.
Today I will remind them...https://archive.md/0Nv3c
>>97923838it was rape, she was a survivor, he abused her, and everyone was uncomfortable.
>>97924344if you're still having trouble, let me help you out. no real person's consent was violated here.
>>97925063I've never story raped a player's character, so yes, he is objectively creepier than at least one person.
>>97927797It wasn't, that doesn't matter, and they proceeded to casually banter and act like nothing happened right after the game, fully acting as if they were going to play again, none of them bringing up the "rape" retards insisted happening.
>>97925412no, everyone was immediately uncomfortable.
>>97925450data's actor's consent wasn't violated during this scene. why do you keep pretending not to understand the difference?
>>97925556he said it was an orgasm, so it was. how much clearer could it have possibly been?
>>97925624horniness has never been acceptable at the table. dungeon crawling is not erotic.
>>97925757yes, it's certainly disappointing that you would rather describe people being raped than run a game.
>>97927821>>97927826>>97927830>>97927836>>97927842Just givin'er today huh.
>>97926201yeah, it would be great if the group hadn't explicitly agreed not to include rape in the game, retard
>>97927815it was, it matters, and they were uncomfortable. people are capable of hiding discomfort, especially in a professional setting, and it is quite clear that they are uncomfortable. there is more to a social situation than what is obvious. please develop some social skills.
>>97927846concession accepted.
>>97927872nou
>ITT: We further devalue the word rape, making it more likely that rape is going to become normalized, in order to win semantic arguments.I for one look forward to the Incel uprising.Not for any personal investment but because you 'people' deserve it.
>>97927944it was rape stay mad
>>97926225what if it's a strict social conservative that is offended? You going to apologize to them? Or explain why they shouldn't be offended?
>>97927836"if there are any girls there I want to do them"explicit shit and flirting no, bc that would be gay as f-, but it's a pulp genre based on sword and sandals. Many babes were eluded to have been had.
The creeps claiming forced orgasms are not rape are telling on themselves
>>97928042we are talking about a fictional robot who DL'd a computer program. The people demanding everyone else recognize some make-believe consent was violated are creeps who use manipulation for social power.
>>97922999checked I can't express with words the amount of disdain I feel for everyone on the screen.From Adam Koebel himself, whose whole career I despise; to the rest of retards clutching their pearls at a literal nothingburger. These are the same fucking faggots pushing for "safety mechanics" bullshit, and yet here they decide to sit there in silence making slightly weird faces.Fuck all of them. Also if you, person reading, consider this character was raped, fuck you too.
>>97928042Anon, watch the whole clip from 1:14:00 onwards.The NPC hits on the PC. The PC responds with "I'm open to new experiences". The DM explicitly says how gently the NPC is doing it, and at no point does the character or the player stop him.Yeah, I'm sure that's exactly equal to magical realming someone.Makes me sick to have to defend Koebel of all people.
>>97928156Dude it was clear cut rape of a woman's character. The fact the player was a RL SA survivor just made it worse.
>>97928189>Casts Power Word: Talking Point>Thinks this will work on 4chanI cast counter words: fuck off retard
Koebel literally physically raped her live on stream btw
>>97928218I will say, him slapping her around the face with his micropenis while screaming about how she's a whore that deserves worse was a bit much.But the real thing that bothered me was how pink his pubes were.
>>97928189>RL SA survivorThis is just the female zoomer equivalent of stolen valor boomers that claim to be vietnam vets for pity drinks at sportsbars, telling you their life story as the word for word plot of the Deer Hunter because they think you're too young to have seen it.
>>97928027No.
>>97928156It was violated and it was rape.
>>97928159they were raped and you're wrong
>>97928181Yeah, it is, dumbfuck
>>97928603>>97928599Come over here, I'll show you rape.
>>97929583Fuck you, Leatherman!
>>97928234It was kind of hot that the other girl started schlicking while he was at it.
>>97928189It was an imaginary robot orgasm program used on an imaginary male android, all things which are not real, during a game of pretend with a bunch of lesser e-celebs.
>>97926942Yeah the entire events was cringe, but it was indicative of how very cringe the entire campaign was. This whole debacle was just icing on the weak campaign they were running. It's the only noteworthy thing about their entire live streamed game series. It's telling that they had to go this far to drum up excitement.
>>97927807I will help you out, Johnny is not a real person.
>>97927821Nobody seemed comfortable the entire session, like they were all ajar for their own game.
>>97927842>rape>when Johnny put his hand on the mechanic's shoulder>when Johnny told the mechanic that he was open to new experiencesIt's like going on a date, making out with a girl, and then the next day she claims she was raped because she talked with her friends about it and decided they do not like you.
>>97928042>ok "sexy mechanic" I am open to new experiences>touches mechanic>okay ready to plug me in>plugged in THIS IS TOO FAR NOW HOLY SHIT WHAT THE FUCK
>>97928189>clear cut>comments section has several people confused about what the issue is after watching the video
>>97930419it wasn't even an orgasm. the robot got a literal short circuit from running a current through a port not designed for that. interpreting it as an orgams is weird anthropomorphization of a non anthropomorphic function.
