first of all, go back
all OSR games look identical and use the same cribbed mechanics to do little more than emulate shitty CRPG dungeon crawls from the 90s

>>97932870
Many look the same yes, but not all of them. You are talking about clones, which are just one part of the larger OSR umbrella.

Clones are often better orginzed and many where free or cheap at a time you couldn't get legal PDFs. Having looked over 1e, I think clones are they way to go if you wanna play 1e honestly

>>97932852
>wants to talk about OSR
>doesn't want to talk to people who have opinions about the OSR
>complains when the decades old arguments about the OSR start up again.
Have you considered that you don't actually like OSR shit?

compatible with TSR D&D statblocks.

>>97932903
That's a good one, I don't agree but that is a fair definition. How ever which TSR stat blocks as Basic and AD&D are not the same.

>>97932887
Why lie about what I said? People can see the OP you know.

>>97932903
TSR stat blocks fucking suck. Every monster with the same HD has the same hit chance and most have the same saving throws.

>>97932936
>> TSR stat blocks fucking suck
I fell in love with the 2E MC write ups though. I loved the Habitat and Ecology sections.

>>97932852
>What's OSR to you?
An idiot buzzword. Play games. Name the game you're playing. Labyrinth Lord isn't "OSR." It's a game. D&D 2e isn't "OSR." It's a game. Just use the name of the game you're playing.

>>97932919
Starting a thread by bitching about OSR arguments and then opening with something guaranteed to start more arguments makes OP a faggot, a retard, and an engagement-baiting troll who is likely participating in /tg/'s only activity of making the same threads and arguments over and over again to spoof the PPH so this place doesn't look as dead as it really is.

>>97932981
I think we found a troll upset OSR discussion is the topic and not an off topic thing he can shit the thread up with here.

>It's another "I'm bootyblistered about the /osrg/ and need to create a shitposting threat to tell the entire board about it" thread
Mods told you to stop being a faggot.
Are you going to stop it?

>>97932852
Well, at least you're being honest about wanting to shit and piss yourself in public.

>>97932988
I have never talked to the mods cock wobble. Why are you upset talking about OSR is the topic?

>>97932983
I found the retard who is going to egg on the exact arguments he claims to hate that pushed the previous thread to 200+ posts.

>>97933051
Found another troll who loves to shit up threads with the arguments

>>97932852
>broader definition of OSR, as it's a movement with a lot of little subgroups


Does that include AD&D2E LMAOO

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North Texas RPG Con just defines old school as pre-2000 RPGs.

>>97933063
The troll posts are coming from inside the house.

>>97933069
For those who where around as it was forming, we know this. But some groups of trolls will never accept reality.

>>97933065
It always included 2e, as it was a pre 3e version of D&D. Mechanically 1e/2e are the same system with relatively minor changes.

The OSR movement was always a pre 3e D&D movement. Because post 3e wotc cut off all support for editions predating 3e.>>97933065

>>97933089
3rd ed is OSR, it was all about going back to the dungeon.

>>97933099
It's not OSR as ISR was created to recreate pre 3e systems and game style. 3e is a paradigm shift away from earlier versions of the game.

>>97933111
No, it has compatible stat blocks and can be run as a dungeon crawler with high lethality.

The OSR was a movement created to inspire people to play AD&D 1st Edition and create new content for it. Back then no one knew what WotC would do, so now that we know they won’t do shit. The design of new rules systems IS NO LONGER NEEDED. These worthless retroclones are nothing but money grabs by lazy idiots that fancy themselves as ‘game designers’. If you are truly about OSR, then you play the original games from OD&D to AD&D 1E. What Gary designed is the OSR, and any other pretense falls short.

>>97933069
PF2e is an OSR game

>>97933135
No, it does not have compatible stats lol

>>97933154
That is a rather arbitrary "requirement" honestly. Also OSR wasn't about 1e, but rather pre 3e games now unsupported band out of print.

>>97933154
Come here to post this

>>97932852
>a movement with a lot of little subgroups
>no one True definition of OSR
nuancetard pls go

>>97933179
No, the OSR was created with OSRIC it has nothing to do with 3e sentiments other than it is a WotC revision that has norhing to do with Gary, just like 2e.

>>97933203
Facts disagree with you. The movement predates OSRIC, although it was the first pure clone. I can tell y'all where not online back in the day

>>97932915
>not the same
c'mon anon they pretty much are
2e included
>>97932936
let me guess
you NEED more?

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>>97933305
>let me guess
>you NEED more?
It not only ruined AD&D, but also a good /tg/ tradition for me when I realized every 5 HD monster is literally this.

>>97932852
>is 2e OSR?
2e is NOT osr
1e is NOT osr
b/x is NOT osr
all those are just old-school d&d
>is 3e old-school? why
No. WotC not TSR, not out of the box compatible with older editions to the same degree
>OSR is a movement
agree
>are 2010s rules-lites games part of the OSR?
are they being referred to by a large number of OSR players as being OSR? Then Yes
Since OSR is a scene everything the scene thinks is part of the scene is part of the scene, even if there is a minority that doesn't agree

fight me

>>97933203
This is provably wrong.

OSRIC was released online in 2006 and only got a physical print-on-demand release in 2009. That means C&C's release predates it by two years (coming out in 2004), and the discussions preceding that release were even earlier.

>>97933154
>What Gary designed is the OSR, and any other pretense falls short.
This is flat out wrong. But, even if we agreed it was correct, C&C was designed not just with Gary's input and endorsement, it was created with the intention of being the spiritual continuation of Greyhawk, with Gygax wrting new material for it and his older adventures being reprinted for C&C. The OSR is not a Gygax worshiping cult, but even if it was, that would make OSRIC a game made to deliberately undermine and challenge the game Gygax had endorsed as having the "old school spirit", something where the OSRIC fanboys started flamewars on the Troll Lord Games forums and got all mentions of OSRIC banned from them.

>>97933272
>>97933327
Gary needed a paycheck I can’t blame him, but to say that C&C is OSR is laughable. At best it’s proto-OSR for inspiring OSRIC and S&W, at worst it’s d20 OGL slop ranked and filed away with all the other 3e bastard children. This is coming from someone that has spent over 700$ for the new Castle Zagyg.

>>97932852
The doggedness of 2e schizo is truly astonishing.

>>97933317
So
do you NEED more?
it's fast, it does the job, and actually there is a fair bit in variety in terms of resistances and special attacks

This is a dumb argument.

>>97933401
It really is remarkable how badly he's been broken, spiritually and mentally, over the last year or so.

>>97933305
Bx, 1e and 2e are pretty close they can be used with little issur. 3e however is a whole other beast

ACKS is OSR

>>97933379
First guy here
C&C like it or not is considered the first OSR game. That is just the reality. It's simply not the 1st retro clone

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>>97933379
Trying to say it isn't OSR is what's laughable.

You'd have to essentially redefine "old school" in order to specifically exclude it. Yes, it was a d20 system, but that's because the big concern at the time was WotC holding all the rights to every edition of D&D, and trying to make a direct clone of a TSR-era D&D was just inviting a lawsuit. C&C used the OGL and the d20 system as a backdoor to allow them to sell a game that could be the spiritual successor of pre-3e editions, and while not as "pure" of an experience as just picking up an older edition and playing it, it was made with a clear and deliberate effort to capture the "old school" style.

Even the guys who made OSRIC acknowledged that they saw C&C as a legal precedent. C&C was basically the game that tested the waters and saw whether WotC would take legal action, the pioneer that cut a path for other games to follow.

C&C grew directly out of the original OSR discussions, and its surprising economical feasibility is what gave the OSR much of its early momentum. The unfortunate thing is that C&C tied itself too strongly to Gygax, and when Gygax died in 2008, his widow put TLG through the legal wringer and this ended up delaying the planned 2009 revised edition, just as the proliferation of OSR systems was really starting to accelerate.

>>97933470
>> The unfortunate thing is that C&C tied itself too strongly to Gygax, and when Gygax died in 2008, his widow put TLG through the legal wringer

I recall this, before his death they were making some waves and getting attention. Then bam! Brick wall.

>>97933451
By what metric? Being the first ‘old school’ game would mean that Kenzer created OSR with Hackmaster in 2001?
>>97933470
The entire point is that OSRIC was the first retro-clone, and it should have been the last in my opinion. That makes it the quintessential ‘OSR’ game, because of the legal issues it solved. But please keep waffling on about the ‘old school spirit’ … (spooky!)

>>97933632
>>y what metric? Being the first ‘old school’ game would mean that Kenzer created OSR with Hackmaster in 2001

C&C as pointed out was the test case. It birth published OSR, and unlike hack master it had the goal of being what we now call OSR, not a parody.

C&Cs goal was to play pre 3e style and be backwards compatible with most of the pre 3e published material. Even the creator of OSRIC pointed to C&C as being what made him create OSRIC.

You seem to not understand just what OSR is or why it was created or what it evolved into. Wotc stopped supporting pre 3e D&D, they books were over a decade out of print. 2e was still common as fuck, which is why you didn't see a lot of push to remake what was easy to find.

1e is also a fucking mess.They had no clue about layout or ease of use. The rules are often unclear and are spread out over at lest 2 books. It's damned easy to see why clones appeal to folks.

>>97933710
Listen, I don’t know if you’re a C&C shill or WHAT, but the fact of the matter is that if C&C had the balls to do what OSRIC did, (I don’t care if they were enboldened by C&C, it was also said they created OSRIC out of dissapointment in C&C. Thus the ‘proto-OSR’ label. Also it could be said that TLG was enboldened first by Necromancer Games!) they WOULD be considered the first OSR! But as it stands they are a cheap 3.x knock-off with an ‘old school’ paintjob!

>>97933632
The OSR is more than just retroclones. OSRIC also wasn't the first retro-clone, with Hackmaster coming out in 2001. Also, BFRPG's creator calls it a retro-clone and also claims that it was partially released online prior to OSRIC, but that's a load of arguments that's probably not worth getting into.

>That makes it the quintessential ‘OSR’ game
And I'd say the opposite, in no small part because OSRIC was never actually that popular or even that useful, and only a tiny minority of the OSR ever even glanced at it. The OSRIC forum only had a few hundred members, and they got basically little to no traction even though the game was originally free.

People really didn't need or even want OSRIC, and the material published under the OSRIC license is some incredibly slim pickings of pretty amateur work. With retro-clones all being virtually compatible, people would just make their own retro-clones and then make materials for those, and then when it was clear WotC was pretty relaxed about the whole business they would just make OSR material, completely ignoring the existence of OSRIC as a pointless deadend.

>the legal issues it solved.
It didn't solve any. It was fan-work copy of a game few paid any attention to, distributed for free online. and next-to-no one bothered making material for it. It's kind of like a man living in the woods claiming he's king of the world and can make his own laws, but only can make that claim because the government of the country he lives in isn't even aware he exists. By the time OSRIC actually tried selling itself, more than a half dozen other OSR games had come out and proven that WotC wasn't going to take any legal action.

>>97933757
Pointing out facts is not shrilling for something.C&C is still the first OSR game, it doesn't matter if your feelings are hurt by it. OSRIC would not exist without C&C, it's that simple.

>>97932852
Nah. This is clearly just another troll thread made to try to force your claim that 2e is OSR and the OSR was started as a reaction to 3e. Kill yourself instead, fishfag.

>>97933757
You're talking to a troll who's autistically fixated on shilling a revisionist definition of the OSR onto the board. You're never going to get a sensible or even good faith answer.

>>97933632
>Kenzer created OSR with Hackmaster in 2001?
No one person created the OSR. Kenzer inadvertantly did play a role in it though, because Hackmaster was one of the games the early OSR did discuss and play.

>>97933778
No, Not that dude. Seriously guys, the vast majority of the OSR sphere disagrees with the osrgs new definition of the term.This was a thread made because the same shit pops up on every single thread and I figured if the arguments were gonna happen then they could be the fucking topic.

>>97933795
>the vast majority of the OSR sphere disagrees with the osrgs new definition of the term
No it doesn't, the revisionist take pushed by the 2e shill here would only be accepted by the horrible plebbit and maybe some people trying to sell shit on Drivethru.

But you know that already, of course, since you've been posting this exact bait for ages. I doubt you're even bothering to rephrase it.

>>97933791
See, that is some of the issue these guys have. They don't understand OSR was a decentralized movement across at lest 3 major forums with no leader or unified goal.It wasn't a project with a lead designer or a single philosophy.


They also think every one who disagrees with Thier revisionist ideology is one dude. Seriously

>>97933810
1: I have lurked in the PDF share thread for years but only active in this thread since March.
2: I was on dragonfoot in 2005
3: There are 2e OSR games
4: Facts don't care if you lie about them.

>>97933810
To make it clear my one and only post in osrg was to say "it's weird you guys don't think 2e is OSR and this is the only place I ever saw that cliam"

Then I got flagged for "trolling", which I wasn't as I was unaware it was off topic there is what was supposed to be an OSR thread.

Then I noticed me and at lest 3 other posters all get accused of being one guy every time it is correctly pointed out the definition you use is off.

The fact is ISR is a movement and much, much boarder, even from day one. Than you think. You are in an echo chamber.

>>97933757
The thinking of the time, and generally among people as a whole, is that strict adherence to rules is not required to make a game a faithful spiritual successor.

C&C is, admittedly, not a great game. It is no surprise that as soon as Gygax died, interest in it dried up, even without all the legal issues involved. BUT, C&C was a game that grew out of the OSR community, its success played an important part in rapidly growing the OSR community, and it was made with clear, deliberate, and expressed intentions of reviving the style of old school gaming, including having Gary Gygax and Robert Kuntz port over old adventures into the system and writing new ones for it to act as a spiritual successor to Greyhawk.

>if C&C had the balls to do what OSRIC did
OSRIC was too chicken-shit scared to even try selling itself. It hoped to present the system as a non-commercial work while using a very poor understanding of the OGL in order to avoid legal ramifications while selling derived materials, but this model never really took off. They didn't really open up any doors for anyone, and the commercial OSR retroclones that followed relied more on the path C&C had cut then the timid backwoods hut that OSRIC was hiding in.

>>97933795
>>97933813
>>97933839
Nah, see, this shit doesn't work because the "C&C was the first OSR game!" claim was made up by the autist trolling the /osrg/, we watched him cobble it together in real time as his previous argument got too reamed out to keep using. I've been part of the OSR since basically the beginning and in the general here since it was started, and I can say with confidence that nobody in the real world has ever used that definition or made that assertion. It's a creation of a board troll, so necessarily anyone who posts or agrees with it is that same troll or someone else playing along with him for the lulz.

Anyway, just posting this for the record and the mods, then leaving the thread. Have fun with your sperg echo chamber, Fishfag.

>>97933813
Knights & Knaves Alehouse had it right.
>“This board unashamedly and proudly supports Old School GYGAXIAN games. Specifically: Original Dungeons & Dragons - the little books, First Edition Advanced Dungeons & Dragons, and Judges Guild products for OD&D & AD&D. … “

>>97933884
Not sure what the point of that post was. They made Thier own term up, OSG. Not sure how that's relevant

>>97933862
Son, it's been known for decades. There are a few wiki entries on it. You refusing to accept reality does not actually change reality

>>97933810
you sound like someone would claim otherwise if horrible plebbit says objects fall to the ground when thrown

>>97933884
Notice how they had to add a "GYGAXIAN" qualifier, which is incredibly ironic, because I've seen people try to contrast Gygaxian with Arnesonian, with the latter being rules-lite and narrative heavy, but judging by their post-D&D games, Arneson skewed towards really annoying gamist bookkeeping (like having to track every pound you were carrying because it affected your speed according to a complex table), while Gygax just handwaved almost all carrying concerns entirely.

And, considering Gygax worked with TLG on C&C, that would make C&C directly GYGAXIAN, and yet OSRIC was made by the K&KA group because it apparently wasn't faithful enough to the GYGAXIAN dogma.


There is this odd mental gymnastics that some people in the OSR perform where Gygax was always right, up until he said something that they disagreed with.

>>97933819
1. We don't care if the rest of the world disagrees with us, they also say that shadowdark is osr
2. 2e is not osr and you should kill yourself

>>97933894
Ignore that troll.

>>97933927
Yes, I am well aware your echo chamber does not agree with reality. It's why I avoid it as I do flat earthers, antivaxxers, civil war apologists and creationists.

>>97933972
Great, I hope you stick to that and don't actually come bothering us anymore

>>97933932
It's always the same few guys from osrg on Thier holy jihad. It's why I made them this safe space so they could yell at clouds and tucker themselves out

>>97933979
NTA, but you have a really bad habit of trying to speak for more people than just yourself. Is that how you learned how to talk on your discord?

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>>97933927
>the entire rest of the world disagrees
>we have no convincing arguments
>we will continue to insist upon ourselves
a true schizo-post

the root of the problem as it is always with such things is that the rest of the world just uses the term as a part of language to convey meaning when communicating
you retards use it as a badge of honor and self-identity because you are worthless aging losers with no other features that could give you a similar sense of [false] self-worth
that's why you are so protective of it, and emotional, and unreasonable

a friendly advice, it's too late for you to achieve anything meaningful so just suck on a shotgun at this point

peace
love
<3

>>97933987
*Some friendly advice

Calm your tits, ESLkun.

>>97933985
Fuck you must be a special kind of retard. >I can't stand this certain type of person
>Okay, so then stop bothering us (these type of people)
>ARE YOU IMPLYING THERE'S MORE THAN ONE OF YOU ??!?
I I can't comprehend how one could be this stupid and simultaneously defensive over a children's game from 15 years ago

>>97933987
Hey retard, you are the one complaining about not getting your way in other people's spaces. If you don't like it, go somewhere else.
Nobody owes you anything

>>97934005
Just because you identify yourself with flat earthers, antivaxxers, civil war apologists and creationists doesn't mean you can speak for them.

>>97934024
Retard, you are the one who brought those up, not me. You can't even actually discuss the topic, you just bring up random bullshit hoping to obfuscate.

2e is not osr.
Shadowdark is not osr

>>97933979
Son, I posted there one single time in March. That's it.

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>>97934040

>>97934040
Not the anon that compared you to those people, but it is pretty fitting, and you seem to agree and even have identified with them strongly enough to try speaking for them.

Another one of your habits is you self-owning yourself pretty often and consistently. i guess that's just a natural consequence of all that little dick energy you've got.

>>97934054
Turns out 5e is part of the OSR now because it has dungeon crawling, loot, and resource tracking.

>fishfag still sperging out about DF and K&K despite not knowing shit about either
lmao

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>>97934088
>now
You're a bit late to the party.
There's hundreds of 5e OSR adventures.

I like DCC and I don't care if it's not OSR. I also like B/X and I also don't care if it's not OSR.

>>97934054
>this kills the osrg-retard

>>97934054
>>97934148
>Shadowdark is OSR!
l o l

>>97932852
OSR means nothing and has always meant nothing. the OSR movement on G+ very quickly devolved into subhumans who failed to understand the master work that Gygax(pbuh) had build up and attempted to put their own spin on it by tearing apart his rules and creating their own hacks
OSR discussion in most places consists of three groups talking over each other
>people who are orthodox to Gary's way and play with TSR D&D systems like was intended
>people who ripped off TSR D&D and play systems and deviate mechanically but attempt to keep the playstyle and ethos
>people who see the "old school" part of OSR and want to talk about old games that no one gives a shit about like Harn

>>97933089
lol no, sorry fish, this is just your headcanon

>>97934088
Nope, but there are games that are based off 5e mechanicly in the OSR sphere

>>97934178
Facts don't care about your feelings snowflake

>>97934203
Son, not everyone who rejects your echo chambers revisionist BS is one guy

>>97934275
Hi fishfag.

I think fishfag thinks if he pretends to be Hank Hill, people won’t know that it’s him…

>>97934270
That's a great line, and the fact is it doesn't matter if you think that game is osr, because it's still not allowed in the /osrg/.
But you thinking that game is osr, is why you are excluded as well m

>>97934275
Then kindly stay out of our echo chamber if you hate it that fucking much.
Endlessly bitching day after day after day but never contributing anything of value, just begging for the game you can't talk about, to be allowed to be talked about.
Even after the mods formally told you to fuck off and you said you would never come back

>>97934322
How many times do I have to tell you shadow jumping motherfuckers I don't go to your circle jerk thread?

I know y'all are stupid but damn son I didn't think you were this stupid

>>97932936
...you do know they have text descriptions where they can put things like
>due to their increased strength, they gain a +1 to all 'to hit' rolls
?

i'd actually argue that the system it uses, 'English', is even more nuanced than 4E!

>>97934196
The OSR fell apart after the Zak incident and a bunch of trannies tried to start "SWORD DREAM" as the replacement, only because no one wanted to commit to any real ideas or principles beyond
>we think people who sell games should make money
the whole thing went nowhere fast-as-fuck. A bunch of people adopted the label, but also stuck with the OSR label too, just for SEO reasons, but since it didn't catch on, soon no one was using SWORD DREAM. There was also the "NSR" but that didn't really catch on either.

So we're back to the OSR, which has become more of a term to mean
>Indie RPG, but maybe with some nostalgia gleaned from someone else's retroclone that was popular for a minute
Or
>indie RPG, but with photobashed vibes and a fantasy pinterest mood board shtick

>>97934714
ACKS holds fast

Personally, I think that OSR is a style of play often encouraged by, but not fundamentally linked to, the rules of pre-2E D&D systems.
It emphasizes immersion through direct interaction with a world flowing through the (theoretically) impartial Dm rather than extensive mechanics, with the rules that do exist such as gold for XP encouraging adventurous behavior and a designed high lethality encouraging intelligent play and gameplay-event defined characters rather than by adventuring with a predefined story goal or having a thoroughly written-out character to start with.

This means that an OSR-styled game can be run in 2E, but so can it be in 3.5 or 4e. Even 5th. I'd actually say that West Marches and the Points of Light Ideal of those middle two systems, even if they may have originated outside of the ancient OSR, tie back very closely to the OSR compared with 2e's extremely defined settings and linear adventure paths like those in Ravenloft.

The general board consensus leans towards a stricter, mechanical-fidelity focused definition of the OSR with B/X and AD&D and such which I don't really mind, since I am more interested in talking about the actual ideas of this sort of game rather than what to call it. If what I like is NuSR or TODND or whatever that's fine by me.

>>97934747
ACKS is basically dead. Their kickstarters have been bleeding numbers and they never were that popular to begin with, something like below 3k backers even for their big ACKS2 release. Add that their online presence is treated like a cancer, and we're looking at a game with less popularity than Random OSR of the week #52, just slightly more notoriety because of how obnoxious its tiny fanbase is.

It's kinda like MLP in 2026. Yeah, it's not entirely dead yet, but it's just the saddest losers that can only attract even sadder losers.

>>97934765
the stricter definition they use is called brosr. they just refuse to use that label for whatever reason.

>>97932852
OSR systems, publications, and products are good. And I actually played some LBB (in person) last night so I'm not just jerking off over here.
However, the people who talk the most about OSR (and BrOSR and CAG) on the internet are huge raging faggots. The political aspects also shut down discussions in multiple places.
That said, personal opinions:
>LBB is peak OSR and also peak DIY DND
>7VoZ is best LBB "clone"
>OD&D is ok, but if you add all the rules you're just playing bad AD&D
>AD&D 1e is an essential, foundational text: but the later you get, the less OSR it becomes
>AD&D 2e can be OSR if you use the optional rules. You can port anything missing from other versions, and that makes nerds shit themselves in rage when LotFP is worse in that regard
>Holmes is peak Basic, Moldvay is #2. 'ate Mentzer,.
>Labyrinth Lord (1e) is the best B/X clone. Advanced Labyrinth Lord is the best AD&D clone. Mutant Future fucks.
>ACKS has too much crunch for too little use.
>DCC RPG is OSR-adjacent because it really tries to nail a vibe of weird adventure.
>LotFP is OSR-adjacent because it changes a lot of math

>>97934747
ACK is a small nitche in what is always a nitche or a nitche. It's never been very popular

>>97934839
That is a great list of personal opinions there. I haven't got to read the newest version of labyrinth lord but it's on my never ending to read list

>>97934805
how is it "dead" when its got multiple successful kickstarters?
>only 3k backers!!!!
...okay? Macris isnt trying to supplant wotc, hes trying to make a living selling his game, which hes doing quite well at.

>>97934847
>It's never been very popular
who said it was?
who are you quoting?
>>97934839
>AD&D 2e can be OSR
wrong.

>>97934885
3k backers is really, really small, and I actually don't think they even cracked 2k. Also "successful kickstarter" doesn't really mean anything when that's just a marketing tool and each creator decides what "successful" means for themselves. Ironically, ACKS2's kickstarter, despite being a "success," had to resort to using AI art to reach its intended page count.

More importantly, we're looking for anything that can indicate how big the ACKS fanbase is, and people willing to back the game is one of the few indicators we have. If we looked at something like Autarch's subreddit, which has only something like 400 people, that's too small to be of any use as an indicator beyond "it has almost no presence on reddit despite having at one time (during the ACKS2 kickstarter) such a presence on the r/OSR and r/RPG that they got their game banned for brigading."

For a game with such a diehard retard fanboy like you, it's hard to find any evidence of any popularity whatsoever. It definitely has less players than a game like Shadowdark (is that why you're always so mad about people discussing it?), but looking at various numbers it seems less popular than even something like MorK Borg.

>>97934893
>>wrong

NTA, but explain why mechanically it can not.

>>97935005
>3k backers is really, really small
so what?
Its enough to pay his bills, fill his pocket, and continue writing and selling books.
Being a small business owner doesnt mean youre not successful just because youre compared to nvidia.

>>97935023
No one cares about a grifter managing to live off his grift, man. We're talking about a game's popularity.

>More importantly, we're looking for anything that can indicate how big the ACKS fanbase is, and people willing to back the game is one of the few indicators we have. If we looked at something like Autarch's subreddit, which has only something like 400 people, that's too small to be of any use as an indicator beyond "it has almost no presence on reddit despite having at one time (during the ACKS2 kickstarter) such a presence on the r/OSR and r/RPG that they got their game banned for brigading."

>>97935033
>No one cares about a grifter managing to live off his grift
ah, first its "too small", now its a "grift".
Totally things normal person who 'didnt care' would say.
>they dont have enough reddit updoots!
uh, okay?
who cares about reddit? business is about money not reddit votes

>>97935050
...are you okay?

>>97934893
>wrong.
Didn't ask, get raped.

>>97935103
Ah, so you got btfo and now you're trying to wiggle away

>>97935261
No, I'm genuinely worried about you because you sound like you had a stroke. You didn't make any point or even had any lines of logic, you just sort of spazzed out there. There's nothing to reply to, because you're not even talking about what's being discussed.

You're free to try again, but I don't really see any reason to expect you'll do any better a second time.

>>97935023
>ACKS is dead
>Nuh-ah!
>Yes-ah
>OK SO WHAT? IT STILL MAKES ME... khm.. Macris that is... IT STILL MAKES MACRIS ENOUGH TO PAY HIS BILLS
LMAO
that's such a weird argument to make out of absolutely nowhere
like literally no one was arguing macris doesn't make any money from it

>>97934812
From what I've seen online, brosr is an insult, not a self-identifier.

>>97935503
going on a tangent here but I still don't get why "bro" has become this all-purpose term for "group of people I don't like"
all it brings to my mind is binge-drinking frat boys, and I don't expect they're playing many TTRPGs (or doing most of the other things it's used for)

>>97935326
>We're talking about a game's popularity
okay, what about it? its popular enough to support multiple employees and be profitable.
anything

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>>97934088

>>97935631
it hasnt. brosr isnt even actually really, just this tweakers go-to "insult"
>>97935326
You said ACKS was dead.
He said it wasnt, and still makes money.
Then you said it wasnt popular enough.
He said that's irrelevant.
Then you said ACKS is actually just a "grift"
He then mocked you for such a dumb "argument".

Did I follow correctly?

>>97935326
I think you might have trouble following how a reply chain works

>>97932852
>What's OSR to you?
In a word: Bookkeeping. Not outright Forge-ian "simulationist" game design, but specifically emphasizing the importance of tracking the shit that's supposed to matter like the time of day, how long it takes to travel somewhere, the weight of equipment and loot, spell components, rations and water carried, hours slept, and so on. You do this with almost any system, old or new, but I find that older systems take the time to acknowledge bookkeeping minutia, while newer ones either treat it as an afterthought, or don't even acknowledge that, for instance, needing to get to somewhere on a tight deadline or losing all of your food is a big enough deal to be an entire adventure unto itself.

>>97935631
My understanding is the etymology of BROSR is "BRaunstein OSR". It's just the adherents play up the "Bro" stuff and act belligerently to prove how masculine they are for playing war-themed pretend with dice.

>>97935671
This is how ya end up with shadowdark

>>97935631
>going on a tangent here but I still don't get why "bro" has become this all-purpose term for "group of people I don't like"
It's used primarily for guys who try to act like those frat boys that you've called to mind and imagine themselves as alpha males. Techbros, Cryptobros/Financebros, and of course your generic Dudebro have a tendency to travel in packs, wear similar clothes, and act like douchebags while using each other as support.

BrOSR share many similarities with those groups, particularly that shared cowardly streak that turns into brash loudness to try and hide their insecurities. BrOSR include self-identified BrOSR who wear that moniker like a badge, and these tend to be simultaneously the most obnoxious while also the least troublesome, because they make no effort to disguise their opinions as anything other than ass-like braying.

The worst BrOSR are those who are ashamed to be called BrOSR but not enough to stop acting like them, inserting themselves into conversations and acting like they hold the keys to some secret club, spreading their propaganda and then scoffing when someone isn't grateful to them for doing so. It's a kind of arrogance that's paper-thin though, because the entire BrOSR philosophy is riddled with issues and can only exist within an echo chamber. With even the slightest pressure, a BrOSR will fly into a fit, because the only thing they can do when someone calls their bluff is to bluff harder.

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>>97932852
>What's OSR to you?
An indication that video game developers are light years ahead of the tabletop RPG developers.

OSR is just an attempt to capture a specific playstyle focused around procedural generation, simulation, and keeps the skill set of the game towards the player's mastery over the scenario as opposed to character progression or a focus on narrative storytelling. But TTRPG fans are too retarded to figure out how to focus this (probably because they've been heavily co-opted) into better games, and are once-bitten twice-shy from tranny drama, so they jealously guard sacred cows because they cannot figure out any method of recreating this playstyle without just playing the old janky bicycles of games with broken wheels. They can't even talk about problems with the systems because then it triggers the zealots to form into legion to shit and moan about how people are trying to fix "perfection", meaning everyone just winds up DIYing the shit out of OSE or AD&D1e with lumber and patching until that lopsided bicycle can't even move anymore.

>>97936181
Can you show evidence of any of these claims about their behavior?

>>97936459
Maybe if you can convince me you're asking in good faith.

>>97935503
>>97935631
It's because the "BrOSR" is specifically a group of culture war faggots who adopted the meme of
>I depicted myself as the chad and you as the virgin
and applied it to RPGs. There's also a certain amount of Inidan Grifter life coach shit in there, with a dash of Greek Statue Profile pic behavior. This led to the BrOSR types creating an overblown identity for themselves as these badass true men of culture, philosophically and intellectually backed by their interpretation of Gygax as the final authority on game design.

They don't just like old games, but they see themselves are inherently superior in an undeniable way to all other people who play RPGs. They preach this constantly, bringing up obtuse edge case rules or questionable interpretations of old DMG pages. They love to insist that they run the best, most epic campaigns that can go on for years while strangely never actually being part of any on-going game.

The BrOSR is something that has less to do with the OSR and less to do with RPGs and general, and is really more like a cancerous lump that developed from social media culture warring latching onto old D&D as their unique gimmick for preaching about how the paragon ubermensch men of the western world need to return to tradition, or some other bullshit they don't actually believe.

>>97935978
can you source that or?

>>97936575
can you show any examples of what you are describing that are so offensive?

>>97936718
Jeffro Johnson and his circle of nogames faggots, primarily.

>>97936730
no, i mean can you please show actual examples of what youre saying?
im not just googling some name and sifting for hours.
I just want to see what it is you dont like

>>97932852
OSR is a useless relic. Just play 1e with chainmail.

>>97936755
i play BX with 1e, why should I use chainmail?

>>97935750
>the weight of equipment and loot
I've hardly ever seen an adventure telling you how much treasure weighs. Equipment weights are straight-up undefined outside of weapons and armor in OD&D, Holmes Basic, AD&D 1e and B/X. Only by Mentzer Expert you're told how much adventuring gear weighs. And some argue that book barely qualifies as OSR. (I don't exactly know the supposed differences between "Expert v1" and "Expert v2")

>>97932852
OSR is a bunch of fat asses with no imagination arguing over random generation charts and saying "ahksxtually" and cheating

>>97936938
source?

>>97935665
>>97935676
>>97935697
>Literally within 5 minutes
LOL

>Are you okay
It's amazing how much of online conversation has turned into one side pretending to be retarded in order to avoid engaging in actual discussion of the topic, then expecting that to somehow win them the argument.

ACKS is and always has been a niche game, but every game in our hobby is a niche within a niche, barring 5e.
Going "Well it's not popular" can be answered with "Out hobby isn't popular, you want to talk about popularity as a virtue fuck off to /soc/ or /sp/"

>>97932903
This is it for me, OSR means I have a 50 years of material to use with minimal tweaking.
FUCK your Mork borgs, FUCK your motherships, FUCK your shadowdarks. If I can't run The Lost City in it without more than 20 minutes of tweaking , ITS NOT OSR

>>97932852
>>97932852
For me, OSR are the original games pushed by Gygax, Arneson and co under TSR - Chainmail, D&D, AD&D, Battle System, Blackmoor, Greyhawk, Conan, Dark Sun. etc. When Arneson and Gygax lost control of the title to others, 2nd ed was released (along with new settings and THAT cartoon) to kill the original and the 'New School' began.

>>97934805
>>97934847
>>97935005
Got to love the coping people have on hating ACKS for being a success. The moving the goalpost from "it's was failure and no one will play it." To "Sure it made 6 figures on all of it's yearly kickstarters and it sells well enough on DrivethruRPG but it's not replacing D&D."
Hell, the fact every year he had a new book come out and it does about 6 figures each time is a good thing. I think the Before All Others beat ACKS II Kickstarter numbers, and people who get the PDF often wait for the next Kickstarter to get the special edition books. Yes, he might not overtake DND, PF, etc. However if he keeps a small but loyal fanbase. He can do what most of the people whine they can never do and basically work full time on his book and settings. Compare to the new hotness that comes into Kickstarter and makes a million but when they launch their second kickstarter/backerkit/etc, it flops and they stop making more books for their setting?

Though we all know that most of these people hating on ACKS is just due to the creator isn't a leftist and won't bend the knee to them. So they're hoping to cancel him to have a head on a pike to show everyone their power. However since he doing well they have to make excuses and change the goalpost.

>>97937156
Them denying it's about /pol/shit is always amusing. Watching them barely restraining their urge to show their powerlevel like a pibblemommy holding back Daisy whenever they walk past the orphanage.
>No-no, it's because the game is trash, here's my list of talking points proving it's trash, all of them hyperspecific bad faith readings of the most niche aspects of the game
>Those aren't true though, in fact-
>Well what would you know you fucking white nationalist?!

>>97937059
Why are you pretending like playing dumb isn't your own most favorite move?

>>97937197
>>97937156
The only ACKS talk I've ever seen has been acks shills seething about leftists.

>>97937220
>Look at me ma, I'm projecting
We can have this discussion when you stop pretending to be retarded. Until then? Redditor, get ye gone.

>>97937225
You're literally playing dumb about playing dumb.

Tell me: Is global warming happening right now?

>>97937197
Pretty much, Hey watch this.
>>97937221
So, you're just going to ignore any time anyone posts ACKS on /tg/ there isn't a bluesky fag 'reee'ing about it and calling it racist, sexist and whatever else is trending at the moment.

Should I make ACKS thread and see how many of them I could catch posting their hate for it over leaving it alone and let those who like ACKS post on there? Or are going to admit they're some major ACKS haters on /tg/

>>97937235
I literally go into no ACKS threads, and just keep hearing you people seething about how victimized you are.

>>97937235
>So, you're just going to ignore any time anyone posts ACKS on /tg/ there isn't a bluesky fag 'reee'ing about it and calling it racist, sexist and whatever else is trending at the moment.
Nah, he'll just pretend they're being paid for it.
Someone posted a campaign write up and their seething over it was incredible. The range of cope was from "This is fake" to "This was written as an attempt on my life" to falseflagging and pretending to be the person that wrote it so they could smearjob.
It's wild, someone produces actual content for once and rather than going "Huh neat" they get the big upsetti spaghetti instead because they hate the game and therefore the players.

>>97937246
You have an extreme victimhood complex going on here.

>>97937229
republicans can't tell the truth about the weather
democrats can't tell the truth about trannies

>>97937253
You mean how we are getting out of a ice age. (BTW, an ice age doesn't mean everything is cover in ice now. We have data that the middle ages were more like our current temp. Though you went to public school so I can see why you drank the kool-aid without question. Lucky you got out before they try to put you into a dress and fix you like a dog.)

>>97937293
Note that the republican absolutely cannot say "Yes, the globe is getting warmer."

>>97937248
>You have an extreme victimhood complex going on here.
Presented without further elaboration:
https://desuarchive.org/tg/thread/97765969/#97783734
>He also wrote a fake, 200 page campaign out of spite for...reasons that are not clear.

It's okay to admit you're wrong and maybe a little retarded anon. You're allowed to do that, this is a safe space.

>>97937306
Anon, I know victimhood is very important to you, but you have to realize something.
I don't care.
People talk bad all the fucking time about my precious shadowrun, and I don't blame it on some fucking political plot.

>>97937298
Not republican but I did dumbass.
>>97937293
>You mean how we are getting out of a ice age.
We been hotter and we been colder. So this isn't the hottest we been nor has this been the coldest we been. So stop trying to find a gotcha to get out of replying to what I said, you're not going to be able to hand wave what I said cause you got nothing to counter it.

>>97937311
>Shit, what he said was true despite sounding absurd, better generalize to avoid admitting that the absurd sounding thing was true
Bless, here's your (you) you little scamp, don't spend it all in one place.

>>97937320
You very specifically avoided saying it, anon.
And then you coped about an ice age, which you are currently playing dumb about, because you know modern heating is going much faster than it would be if we were leaving an ice age.

>>97937325
Anon, take a moment to say the things you are saying out loud.
It is ridiculous.

>>97937327
First off, what part of "Yeah, we are getting out of a ice age" did you not get. That means the globe is getting warmer dumb ass.

Second, for the last 80 years. They have been going back and forth between global warming and cooling before they change it to "climate change" after being called out enough times. If that shit was real. Why are all the big names still buying beach front property in place they love to say will be under water by 20xx? Same thing with these glacier will be melted by 2025 or whatever the gimmick is to push their con on?

>>97937388
>Deflection, red herring
Why are you political fucks so allergic to telling the truth, ever?
Playing dumb is all you ever do.

Is Godbound OSR?

>>97937391
>>97937388
Admitting that it's heating up faster than his explanation would allow for is against his programming.

>Letting him drag you off into talking about /pol/shit
Don't fall into the trap anon, just point out that /tg/ is a board for traditional games, not him raving about how Republicans are totes going to start using baby seals as a fuel source and bring it back to the topic at hand.
Cuck him out of what he wants and watch him whine about it, rather than indulging him and letting him call the mod on you for posting off topic, because that's his goal.

>>97937428
Note how this man requires hyperbole to cover for the fact that his explanation is a bald faced lie.

>>97937391
>>97937415
Man, you are coping hard that I call it out. How about you prove me wrong rather than whine it doesn't count.

>>97937432
Note how this man is still unable to admit the globe is heating up faster than it would be if it were leaving an ice age.
Republicans are unable to tell the truth about the weather.

>>97937438
......
I am not a republican dumbass, and I did said it getting hotter as we're getting out of a ice age. However you trying to hide behind outdated logic and shit they used to scare you that been proven false years ago and avoid admit that it was BS which was your side whole fucking case.
So why is the sea level the same if we're getting warmer? Should old 1000s year old ports be flooded? How about those glaciers you said would be melted by now? Had the signs and everything to push it till that time limit came and nothing happen?

>>97937454
>Playing dumb about the globe getting warmer than it would be if we were just leaving an ice age
Political fags are unable to tell the truth, it's wild.
>Why is the sea level the same
It's not. You know it's not. Why are you lying?
>Shouldn't 1000s year old ports be flooded
They in fact are, to the tune of trillions of dollars of pumping. It is an incredible weight on the global economy. You know this.

>>97937155
Dark Sun is part of 2e my man

>>97937246
I think people hate you because you try to use a write up no one would read as some kind of shield against criticism, in a "it doesn't matter how bad the game was, it was played, and that means we can call anyone who disagrees with us nogames" manner.
That, and you just being generally unpleasant in just about every aspect.

>>97937457
>Shouldn't 1000s year old ports be flooded
>They in fact are, to the tune of trillions of dollars of pumping. It is an incredible weight on the global economy. You know this.
We are not talking about low/high tide dumbass.

This troll just said something so dumb that I think he is not just pretending; he's genuinely stupid.

>>97937311
fishfag is a shadowrun fanboy
lmao

>>97932852
>If 2e isn't OSR
AD&D 2e isn't OSR?

>>97937983
Maybe, maybe not

>>97934304
Ah tell you h'what, that Innsmouth Feller ain't right.

>>97937535
We aee talking about portions of the coastline being rendered uninhabitable while Ben Shapiro tells us to sell our home to FACKING ACKWAMAN!

>>97932852
>What's OSR to you?
It's a cult that worships questionable game design and spends more time engaging in holy wars against opposing sects than they spend actually playing games. It's unfortunate that they've been targeted by a local schizo.

>>97932852
Is D&D5E OSR now? next DnD will go fully online

>>97938433
OSR is whatever anyone wants it to be, according to these threads. Trying to define what OSR is or isn't makes you a troll from the /osrg/ apparently.

>>97937983
It's not according to a tiny handful (or possibly one guy?) of hyper autistic faggots who have hijacked /osrg/ and consistently caused shitfits and breakdowns, such as spaming/flooding a thread full of weird AI Gayified versions of 2e monsters and gay larp because anons attempted to return to the original, unmodified OP (Which was modified in october of last year)
https://desuarchive.org/tg/thread/96881801/#q96887990

Discussion has been all but impossble due to the hyperfixations of a lolcow worse than even IronTard.

>>97933925
>K&KA group
Those guys are just 1d4 old fogey greybeards that got kicked off of dragonsfoot/enworld in the 2000s because it wasn't pure enough for them and they threw a shitfit. They made a refugee forum that to this day has failed to get even 1200 registered users after almost 20 years.

>>97938671
>>97938685
Hi Fishfag.

>>97938433
5e itself is not OSR, however there are OSR games based off 5e mechanicly

>>97938701
AND HERE HE IS!
Trollcow is here, calling everyone who disagrees with him his strawman, failing to explain his views, and screeching as per usual.
Why don't you go post in /osrg/ after 7+ hours of inactivity? it's what you wanted afterall.

>>97938701
NTA but he is correct on K&KA. I was on DF when they were warring and left to create that place.

>>97936977
okay, and?

>>97938716
It's actually a little painful to see how bad the discussion in the /osrg/ has become in such a relatively short time.
When the thread's not stone dead, it's just arguing about the most petty rules imaginable, intermixed with their various efforts to build it up as a BrOSR echo chamber.

>>97938771
NTA but they are too interested in purity and gatekeeping than actual game discussion. And those places always die a slow death

>>97938785
They're interested in providing lipservice to game discussion though, and that's probably what drove most people away, because the way they talk about games is like how pedophiles discuss children.

>>97938771
>>97938785
Indeed. My prediction is that /osrg/ is going to be slower than /grog/ is given enough time (a good couple months) with easily almost a day between posts becoming normal. I just wanted to talk about games, organize some community mapping jams and throw ideas around, cannot imagine it in that space with how it is now.

>>97933925
"""Gygaxian""" (Jeffroian) ritualposting is a plague on /osrg/

>>97938830
I posted there a single time, not knowing it was a "rule" to not talk about 2e. All I said was it was weird to exclude 2e and no where else has that definition. I got dogpile, called fishfag(no clue what it meant at the time) and then banned for 3 days for "trolling" and I was so confused. It was a single fucking post. So yeah Fuck those guys and Thier circle jerk echo chamber

>>97937306
4chan isn't a safe space. Quit being retarded.

>>97937554
>>97937861
Man, ACKS shills sure seethe a lot.

>>97937535
>Playing dumb about the extreme economic cost of constantly pumping out cities and ports that were built below the modern sea level
lol, I really nailed you.

>I predict the death of /osrg/
You've been doing that for 6 months at this point. That's nothing new.
I look forward to more seething and doommongering from you in the future.

>>97932852
OSR is autistic garbage for washed up old men. It's no wonder that they devolve into a bunch of cliques throwing shit at eachother for disagreements that happened 10 years ago in a nonstop purity spiral. Sometimes, you just oughta let things die.

>>97939424
There's lots of good stuff in old games worth looking at, and exploring the history of RPGs (not just old D&D) is important for understanding not just how and why RPGs have evolved into what they are today, but how to avoid repeating the same mistakes that older games made ages ago.

That said, you're probably right. The OSR deserves to die.

It lost its purpose ages ago, and seems to have become the center of an effort to try and revise history rather than preserve it. It's a shame, because I've played and enjoyed (sometimes with some effort) every edition of D&D, and seeing what sort of people are identifying themselves as the gatekeepers of the older editions is like seeing a cherished italian restaurant, the one you had your first date and even proposed to your now-wife in, be turned into a gay strip club where the men dress up as flamboyant waiters and shit on plates before smearing it all over everyone and they haven't even had the decency to change the name.

The Old Spaghetti Ristorante is just not what it used to be.

>>97938685
>They made a refugee forum that to this day has failed to get even 1200 registered users after almost 20 years.
The K&KA forum is not even indexed on search engines by their own choice. They don't want more users.

>>97933168
Pathfinder is great and the pinnacle of OSR.

>>97940401
They probably just didn't want/couldn't afford to get constantly scraped. If they didn't want more users, they wouldn't have tried so hard to proselytize on other forums.
And, even if we accepted your argument, when talking about unpopular cliques that don't represent a larger movement, a group that didn't want more users can hardly pretend they speak for people who never joined them.

>>97938868
Sounds like your little poindexter ass nogames got body slammed by some real gamers and you have never recovered.

Say three (3) hail Garys and hope that Macris doesn't use his Aryan telekinesis to mind reap you while you were sleeping tonight

>>97939424
Can you point out exactly what you mean by purity spiral, and give an example of it?

>>97940685
not the other anon but from what i've seen the purity spiral they have is how well you adhere to the rules of AD&D 1e or ACKS. and because a lot of other systems aren't strict like they are, they're dogshit. AD&D 2e is the typical example.
>>97940412

>>97940709
? thats not a "spiral". /osrg/ has excluded that game for a long time.
seems like a fairly hysterical way to say "they dont like something I do like!"

>>97940788
>/osrg/ has excluded that game for a long time.
And /osrg/ included that game for a long time. You can't argue for tradition when the "tradition" is a reversal of the real tradition.

>>97940842
the community excluding one game eight years ago is not a "spiral". you sound like a crazy person.

>>97940788
"A purity spiral is a hypothesized form of groupthink in which members of a group compete to demonstrate increasingly extreme commitment to a particular value, while expressions of doubt, nuance, or moderation are punished."

yes it is. them insisting they're way is the best and only way to play ttrpg's. and anything else is trash and declaring anyone that disagree's with them "fishfag", is a purity spiral.

>>97940960
>them insisting they're way is the best and only way to play ttrpg's
lolwut? no one said anything about this
>compete to demonstrate increasingly extreme commitment
how does this relate to one particular game being excluded from /osrg/ for the last eight years?

>>97940967
Because it wasn't. You do this dance everytime people talk about OSR outside of your bubble. Go on. Post the 4plebs links about the entirely different OP and the two of you do this dance again and again while I can't talk about the game in the general I talked about in for years.

>>97940999
>Because it wasn't
yes? the OP of /osrg/ has excluded 2e for almost a decade now, which is your very complaint.
Are we having the same conversation?

>>97941014
>the OP of /osrg/ has excluded 2e for almost a decade now, w
No. What it did was say "first decade" but let 2e discussion continue until this year. For less than a year.

>>97941014
2e being banned is a side effect of their beliefs. and they used vague wording from the op to enforce it (the first decade bs).

>>97941082
>What it did was say "first decade"
yes, and 2e was released after that decade lmao
>but let 2e discussion continue until this year. For less than a year
delusional
>>97941087
>vague wording
how is "the game's first decade" vague?

>>97941202
NTA, but broadly encouraging something is being quite vague and loose with it. You're deliberately performing some pretty obvious omission and doctoring.

It's be like an invitation saying "For the wedding, we encourage everyone to wear colors that are broadly in the pastel shades, such as lavender or light blue" and you becoming hyper fixated just on "lavender or light blue" and somehow interpreting that to mean anyone not wearing exclusively either of those two colors at the wedding has to be shot and their body dumped outside the venue.

>>97941202
Allow me to post receipts. Back in october, you attempted to call a "Consensus" to change the OP from being "broadly encouraging" the playstyle of the "first decade" to the thread being solely focussed AROUND games from said "first decade."
https://archive.4plebs.org/tg/thread/96775865/#q96778252
And multiple anons call you out on it.
https://archive.4plebs.org/tg/thread/96799302/
Here's your first time hijacking the thread with your astoturfed "consensus" since october of last year, and you've and been inflicting it on us since.

>>97941253
>>97941241
well, feel free to go to the mods about it if you feel so strongly then

>>97932870
RPG that emulate RPG that predate CRPG actually emulate CRPG? How is that supposed to work?

>>97933321
I want to fight you but you're at least mostly right.

Except...

B/X, BECMI, 1e and 2e are all part of OSR when the R stands for Revival.

Renaissances and Revivals are two different things. People wanting to bring back those named editions are part of a revival. People who want to modify and adapt 3e so it plays a bit more like an old school game might have played with different mechanics, want to adapt or modify B/X or 1e or 2e to remove the clunkiness or whatever it is that the "retroclones" do are part of a renaissance.

Bunch of idiots didn't make this distinction back in the early days of OSR and OSR, so OSR got conflated with OSR, same abbreviation, you don't know which I mean even though there I am obviously referring to them both in a sensible order. Now you've got people who like to think they are the true exponents of the OSR and that OSR is the same as OSR but only up to a point because those people reject things that are actually OSR, just not the OSR or OSR they like.

>>97933710
C&C was early OSR, and with the possible exxception of HM as someone has mentioned, was the first OSR game published but the idea of OSR was expressed before C&C was published, and possibly before many people even knew that C&C was under production.

>>97933786
Fro my POV you're presenting a non-good faith revisionist viewpoint without not accepting historical facts and you're trolling that guy.

FWIW I'm not the anon you just called a troll, only opened this thread a few minutes ago, but you're going to think what you want to think

>>97941446
Yeah, the OSR movement started in a few places with different sets of people doing Thier own thing. C&C just showed them they could publish without Wotc hitting them with a C&D letter.

>>97939286
How so? You're the dumbass that doesn't understand the concept of tides and all. Just saying shit doesn't make it true commie. Though. that's your whole fucking religion now. Worship the "State" and if you believe it enough it will come true. I swear even Christians make more sense then a fucking gay ass marxist,

>>97941409
He already did that and was explicitly told by them to fuck off and stop being retarded
https://archive.4plebs.org/tg/thread/97887306/#97887359

People in /osrg/ agreed to change the OP because this retard was using AD&D 2e as a trollstick to beat the entire thread with then going "Tee-hee, but it's thread relevant :3c" whenever he was told to fuck off (retard) because shit like Dragonlance isn't OSR material and 2e changes enough mechanics and design concepts to be as off topic as 5e would be in /3.5g/, regardless of when it was published.
He's been bitching about us putting up the 'No dogs, no Irish, no retards' sign ever since.

>>97941583
>2e changes enough mechanics and design concepts to be as off topic as 5e
2e is almost identical to 1e. You're demented.

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>>97941592
You've had the differences and the reason they diverge from the foundational concepts of OSR explained to you repeatedly.
You can whine about it all you like (Or better yet you could fuck off to one of the places on the internet where other wrong retards congregate) but you've never presented a counter argument outside of "But that gives me the big mad so stop saying it >:("

>>97941603
I've never stepped foot into your shitty threads and now I can see why no one else does either. You're not here to talk about games, you're just mentally ill.

>>97941605
cool, keep it that way, thanx

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>>97941605
>I've no horse in this race, I'm just really passionate about one side of this random argument I've only just heard
>Never been in your threads
Great, thrilled to hear it, in that case; those of us who are in the thread don't care for talk about AD&D 2e in it and it's been confirmed by the mods that we can exclude it from conversation in our OP.
Have fun talking about AD&D 2e anywhere else on the entire board including in the actual general for it.

>>97941608
>>97941619
>got so mad he had to reply twice

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>>97941623
>so mad he's delusional

>>97941583
.../osrg/ banned something on the order kf 15 years worth of previously allowed IPs, because of one poster?

>>97941665
Again, if you dont like the thread, contact the mods on IRC.

>>97941673
That's certifiable. That's insane. That is fucking psychotic. One poster?

>>97941685
Theres one guy who wants to talk about 2e in /osrg/. He got mad that is was off-topic, so after more than a year of complaining, he went to the mods on IRC. They told him to fuck off and quit disrupting /osrg/.
He has not stopped.

>>97941690
But it's not off topic you maniac. 2e's been part of OSR movement going back to the 00s when jt started.

>>97941722
>But it's not off topic
it is for /osrg/, regardless of what the term OSR means in other spaces. All clubs have different parameters, which is why they exist.
>2e's been part of OSR movement going back to the 00s when jt started.
Unfortunately for you, when a schism occurs, smaller splinter groups adopt different, often more strict mileus.
You seem bothered by this, but that's okay!
The solution is to make a thread for 2e when you want to discuss it!

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>>97941665
Two things;
More because 2e has always been a poor fit for OSR and this all brought it to a head.
Many people see 2e as the place where the game design diverged from original principles in a distinct way.
I mean shit, to quote directly from the 2e DMG:
>All characters earn experience for victory over their foes.
>As an option, the DM can award XP for the cash value of non-magical treasures. One XP can be given per gold piece found. However, overuse of this option can increase the tendency to give out too much treasure in the campaign.
The thing you get XP for is the thing that the game is about.
In OSR games XP comes from gold, which drives the game towards being about 'How do I find more gold', with the logical answers being exploration, negotiation, fighting, getting creative in how I interact with the world (The ol' dwarven vault door trick), that treasure can come in a wide range of forms, coin, items, trade goods, animals, relics, ancient books, slaves, or just given to you by grateful peasants because you saved their daughter.
Or maybe you could make more of it by selling the girl off to the local vampire lord maybe? That's an actual moral choice implied within the mechanics of the game, rather than thrown at you by the DM.
It leaves the horizon open for you, as players, to drive the game and decide what you're going to do. The driving force is "Get on the grindset boys."
Now to contrast with that;
What does combat XP and quest XP incentivise?
Think about it for a minute and then map the trajectory of D&D across its various iterations, going from "Combat that you didn't choose to engage in is a failure on your parts" to "Heck yeah gang, let's go beat up Orcus and save the world!" and "Quests are things you do to get paid" to "Oh dear god the failed novelist has written another adventure path, strap yourselves in boys, we're going on Mr Authors wild ride."

>>97941745
>picrel
wow, great post there.

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>>97941745
>>97941749
>wow, great post there
>>97941731
>Come into space, forcibly change it to fit your needs
>"If you don't like it, just leave!"
>"Wow, people are reacting negatively to this."

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>>97941745
I mean shit, even things like having a section on 'Monty Haul Campaigns' in the DMG implies there's a 'Correct' amount of gold that players should have drip fed to them, rather than them being the driving force behind their own destiny, which is the heart and soul of OSR.
There's no denying that 2e is far more DM as storyteller than DM as referee.
That's the rational side of the argument.

The irrational side of the argument is; you haven't seen what this retard is like.
He's been clamped onto the bollocks of the thread for at least 3 years, gone as far as trying to call in the mods, has intentionally shit up dozens of threads and is now, after being told No by the teacher, making dozens of threads like this one so he can whine about how the big boys won't let him into the tree house because any time he's let in he shits on the floor and won't stop doing it.

Keep in mind; there's no one else there that wants to talk about it with him, any time a /2eg/ is started he just goes in there and bitches about how they should be his personal army to come shit up /osrg/.
He's outright admitted in the past that he's there because in his eyes /osrg/ is some secret bastion of chuddery that needs to be torn down, 2e is just the tool he's chosen to do it.
This motherfucker, who claims he basically spends all day every day with AD&D 2e's dick buried in the back of his throat, didn't even know Raistlin Majere was a PC in Dragonlance.
Even I know that shit through pure cultural osmosis.

So, our options are:
>Let the retard have his way, allow the system that's not on topic for the threads and he'll shit them up from here to eternity
Or
>Clear things up, make it explicit in the OP that 2e is where the cut off was (As it always has been mind you, this isn't a change, it's a clarification, Hickmann was and always has been the point where things went from the game OSR'ers want to play to something else), then tell him to go sit on a dick
People chose the latter.

>>97941760
Im not sure waht youre trying to convey? That wasnt my post, but I did find the post in the pic to be salient and well thought.
>Come into space, forcibly change it to fit your needs
Youre making things up now. 2e has been formally off-topic for almost a decade now.
Just make a new 2e thread dude ffs this is insufferable.
The mods said this in no unclear terms.

>>97941745
>Many people see 2e as the place where the game design diverged from original principles in a distinct way.
So? You're arguing minutia, what do you expect will happen by allowing it? People will try and play 1e like Dragonlance? (Oh wait...)
Your argument is "You CAN'T play it because you MUST play the game a certain way that isn't the right way according to me."
its retarded.
>>97941763
>He's been clamped onto the bollocks of the thread for at least 3 years, gone as far as trying to call in the mods, has intentionally shit up dozens of threads and is now, after being told No by the teacher, making dozens of threads like this one so he can whine about how the big boys won't let him into the tree house because any time he's let in he shits on the floor and won't stop doing it.
All of this hinges on the argument that it is all one singular individual guy, who somehow can post from different timezones & do different posting styles.
>Keep in mind; there's no one else there that wants to talk about it with him,
So you speak on behalf of all of /tg/ now?
>He's outright admitted in the past that he's there because in his eyes /osrg/ is some secret bastion of chuddery that needs to be torn down, 2e is just the tool he's chosen to do it.
Literally who and when?
>(As it always has been mind you
Nice revisionist history

You're not an authority, you have no idea how 4chan even works for fucks sake, you think you're an authority that controls the thread, and when you don't get your way you spam and shit up the thread or spam report it until it get's deleted. Want me to post links of threads that this happened to?

>>97941776
>You're not an authority
No, but the mods are and they've told you to fuck off the end of their dick with your bullshit.
Cope louder about it :^)

>>97941776
None of what you said mattered for one reason:
the MODS officially decreed to stop fucking with /osrg/ and trying to force 2e into it.

>>97941769
>Youre making things up now. 2e has been formally off-topic for almost a decade now.
>"We have always been at war with east asia"
>"There is no war in ba sing se"
A brief look into the archives shows that there was not only no strict requirement, and you twisting "Broadly encourages" into "STRICTLY ENFORCES" alongside the fact that said original OP wasn't even adhered to all the time, there were plenty of threads that didn't stick to that.
And the worst thing is you repeat the same shit every thread.

>>97941782
>>97941783
>So close together
hm, suspicious
And besides that, you're once again pinning the actions of inidividuals on one strawman.

>>97941788
He really thought we'd think he's 2 different people if he synced up his posts.

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>>97941776
ask on IRC what the mods think lol
>>97941786
1984 is a decent reference, but you could have done without the childrens cartoon thing, I had to look that up.
>there was not only no strict requirement
"first decade" has been around almost 8 years now.
>>97941788
>>97941793
>posts that are within one minute of each other?? must be one person!
>posts that are 1 minute and five seconds apart? heh, totally not samefagging guise :^)

2e and 1e are still the same exact game so this is never going to be anything more than the throes of crippling mental illness.

>>97941795
>Encourage

verb (used with object)
encouraged, encouraging

to inspire with courage, spirit, or confidence.

His coach encouraged him throughout the marathon race to keep on running.

Synonyms:
reassure, hearten, embolden

Antonyms:
dishearten, discourage

to stimulate by assistance, approval, etc..

One of the chief duties of a teacher is to encourage students.

Synonyms:
help, aid, support, urge

to promote, advance, or foster.

Where does that say "to make sure that people obey something such as a law or rule: "

>>97941788
>you're once again pinning the actions of inidividuals on one strawman
no? what the mods said applies to everyone, not just him. wtf lmao
>>97941793
>>97941788
>so close together
yeah, two people both found your post insane
also, you posting one minute later (the post cooldown) makes this very ironic. youre almost self-parody.
>>97941797
Thats cool, but for /osrg/, one is on-topic, and another isn't, simple as.

>>97941797
IM AWARE OF IT AND IM SO FUCKING SICK OF IT
PLEASE RID US OF THIS FAGGOTS PRESENCE AND HIS TIRADE AGAINST 2E

>>97941749
>wow, great post there.
Agreed, that's why I saved it.
The only people who bitch about something having a boundary are those who want to violate it.
Shit there's plenty of games I like but don't talk about in /osrg/ because they're not relevant to the topic at hand.
I remember at one point our local autist attempted to force a merger on /pfg/ and /3.5g/ because "Well they're basically the same system mechanically so it should be one thread"
No one was a fan of it, to put it mildly.

He actively ignores any attempt to explain why 2e is off topic to him and has outright murdered /2eg/ with hours of shitposting because people actually being able to talk about the game in its own thread removes his ability to shit up /osrg/
Sounds insane right?
https://archive.4plebs.org/tg/search/subject/%2F2eg%2F/
Pick any thread after the 02/11/2025 one and go see for yourself.

>>97941801
Yeah, there's totally two people with the same exact strand of mental derangement both present and posting here at this specific time.

>>97941799
>Dungeons & Dragons as it was played in the first decade of the game's existence
which excludes 2e, case closed. Next question?
>"to make sure that people obey something such as a law or rule: "
? who are you quoting

>>97941803
youre more than welcome to ask the mods on irc to help you out

>>97941801
>Thats cool, but for /osrg/, one is on-topic, and another isn't, simple as.
No. Nothing you say or do (or ANYONE says or does) is going to make that so. Cope harder. No matter how much you autistically crusade for your purity chamber, 2e WILL be talked about in /osrg/, it always has and will be.

>>97941806
>I remember at one point our local autist attempted to force a merger on /pfg/ and /3.5g/ because "Well they're basically the same system mechanically so it should be one thread"
THAT WAS YOU! Do not try to pin it on anyone else but yourself.

>>97941807
mental derangement? all either of us did was remind you what the mods said on this manner.

Also, how can you, with a straight face, accuse two posts within seconds of eachother of being a samefag, when >>97941793 was the exact post cooldown timer after >>97941788 ?

>>97941810
Even though the mods told you to knock it off?

>>97941809
>youre more than welcome to ask the mods on irc to help you out
You seem to really like the mods alot, yet
https://archive.4plebs.org/tg/thread/96120434/#96137075
https://archive.4plebs.org/tg/thread/96120434/#96137087
https://archive.4plebs.org/tg/thread/96393394/#q96406932
Here’s a few posts where you were so frustrated by your troll posts getting deleted you started to claim your so called fishfag was a janny, including one where you posted a screenshot of your ban page so everyone could see that you were ban-evading.

I guess the suckup is only when it benefits you eh?

>>97941820
Hasn't stopped him so far, it's wild, he just shits up the thread, takes his ban, things are peaceful for 24-72 hours, then immediately comes back and picks up where he left off while waiting for the next ban.
All this energy that could go into making a half decent /2eg/ thread, if only he actually gave a shit about that system rather than it being the stick he's using to "beat the chuds" with.

>>97941823
>You seem to really like the mods alot
used to hate them, but I gained some respect for aeolian(sp?) for telling the fishfag to fuck off with his bullshit, yes.
>Here’s a few posts where blah blah blah
okay now show the post where that mod on IRC directly said to fuck off with the hijacking?

>>97941827
Sad. I even own 2e books from my childhood, right here next to me. Id love to discuss 2e in that thread. Since my game is going to include spelljamming soon it would be a great place to dedicate some posting to it.

>>97941834
Make a /2eg/ then, he can't stop you, he'll just turn up and seethe. But if you ignore him rather than letting him drag the thread down with his bullshit then things'll turn out alright.
Personally while I'm lukewarm on 2e mechanically, I'll fully admit; it has some of the best settings to come out of D&D.
Having a place to discuss the fluff as well as the crunch would be groovy.

>>97941827
>All this energy that could go into making a half decent /2eg/ thread,
>"Just go away and let us take over, and go to your containment thread where we can come in and shit it up, effectively making 2e discussion impossible."
No, why would i do that? I'm not a Cuck like yourself.

>>97941844
>why?
Because the mods explicitly said so, dude.

And beyond that, because fuck you, thats why.

>>97941851
So i found said "mod chat" and there's an interesting quote in it
>"But an OP of a general should be as unbiased as possible. So if you are coloring that, or trying to gatekeep by changing that "General" OP to your personal views that is probably trolling."
Gee, isn't that exactly what (You) did? Hmm.

>>97941858
Dude, that mod is directly calling that person out for posting a heavily modified hijack thread.
How are you trying to spin this into a win for yourself?

fuck you are a special kind of demented

>He's back to trying to find a way to turn "The Mods outright told me to stop being a fuckhead" into "The mods told me I'm right" again
You see, this shit right here is the level of retardation /osrg/ has been dealing with for 3+ years.
Is it any wonder we're sick of his bullshit?

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>>97941858
>>97941871
I never though Id see the day where someone pulled an actual Wimp-lo.
>the mods have told me to fuck off, making me the victor!

>>97941875
>>97941871
>>97941868
>see its all him, its all one guy, one [projecting insecurities] guy! That [project some more] fishfag!
You sound clinically retarded trollcow. You repeat this act every thread. You're only convincing yourself.

>>97941899
Buddy, the mods told you to formally fuck off.
Youre not escaping that.
>this act
Reminding you of what the mods told you isnt an "act". Its "fact".

>>97941899
>that mod is directly calling that person out for posting a heavily modified hijack thread
what about this is retarded or an act? its true and factual.

>>97941899
great deflection.
fuck off, fishfag.

>>97941914
Again, i must totally be the same guy! Totally me!
>>97941917
>"trying to gatekeep by changing that "General" OP to your personal views that is probably trolling."
You did that, you did it here exactly
https://archive.4plebs.org/tg/thread/96799302/
>>97941922
Ah, nothing to actually day so you resort to insults

>>97941938
bro. you cannot grasp the simple fact that the mods told you to FUCK OFF.
you wear it like a badge of victory.

i dont need anything else other than:
THE MODS TOLD YOU TO FUCK OFF

>Trollcow
And thus we have him all but admitting it is just one dude.
For anyone who is reading this that isn't involved in the bullshit drama, there's only one subhumanoid retarded enough to think that's a good nickname for someone and who makes use of it.

Fishfag earned his nickname through his actions and upon getting the huttbutt over it decided to try and come up with a nickname for anyone who disagrees with him.
Because, again, he's extremely retarded.

>>97941957
Project harder, nobody believes you, no matter how much you try. It's aritificial, and evidently visible.
>>97941944
Once again, not me.

I miss when /tg/ was about Traditional Games

>>97941960
>not me
And yet what the mod said still applies to you nonetheless, just as it applies to all of us.
2e lost. Dont like it?
Go ask the mods for help.