This might seem like a stupid question, but I honestly don't think there's much Joe Spearman can do against a 10th-level Fighter or something.And when you have magical monsters like undead (like wraiths or shadows) or something like a dragon, the army is completely useful other than to die horribly.
>>97942345Joe Spearman can crit, and when there are enough numbers to throw at a level 10 badass, that matters. That said, in settings with such big power disparities, I'd imagine battles to be more about individual herpes dueling each other while common soldiers are kind of there in the background fighting each other.
Numbers mean a lot.If you had soldiers that deal 10 damage to a champion while the champion kills 1 soldier a turn then 2 soldiers will deal 30 damage, 3 soldiers 60 and 6 soldiers deal 210 with the 6th dealing as much as the first 3 combined.As long as it's not outright impossible for the soldiers to deal damage then they'll eventually have an impact, given that they outnumber their foe enough.
think of high level characters like warships or aircraft carriers. Yes, they are incredibly potent and can pack quite a punch. But how many battleships do you have in total and how quickly can you get a new one?will you deploy one of only 20 battleships available to you into every single skirmish battle, risking its damaging or destruction? Or do you deploy them careful in handpicked battles?
>>97942345What pornographic series is this design from
>>97942345>>97942383here, even found a old /tg/ post about just that question
>>97942383>think of high level characters like warshipsI want to marry a high level character then.
>>97942422We should have nuked them until they were reduced to cavemen. Seeing noble ships reduced to anime girls disgusts me
>>97942345Look at something like Warhammer Fantasy. Very powerful characters can cut down dozens of regular units, but they can't be everywhere in the battlefield and can be bogged down or overwhelmed with numbers.
>How do battlefields deal with high-level characters?They cannot.
>>97942388I think that is just some artists OC, but I think the artist was one of the official artists of Queen's Blade. I'm not sure though.
>>97942345Xianxia stories discuss this. Mortals just die in droves to even low level immortals. After a point there is no mortal blade that can pierce their flesh, no hail of stones that can shatters their bones and pulp their organs and flesh.
>>97942345RPGs are for simulating heroes in dungeons.
>>97942573thank god people more interesting than you exist
>>97942345The most dangerous thing for any high level character is getting surrounded, at least in D&D 5e. Action economy dictates that 8 attackers surrounding one guy all get advantage, and since this is 5e, all of them are going to have 2-4 attacks and the target gets to do very little about it until their turn, which may not come around.
>>97942573Sailors throughout history would kill for the chance to fuck their ship.
>>97942345Yeah, D&D doesn't have any internal cohesion; that would take effort which wouldn't have boosted the sales, so it isn't important to WotC.
>>97942832Yes, f.s worked on Queen's Blade, among others.
>>97942345Like any combined arms initiative, everyone has different roles and contributes in different ways towards the same goal, with everyone shoring up everyone else's weaknesses (e.g. heavy armaments need infantry to protect them). A hero/ace is your, well, ace in the hole. As other posts like >>97942383 and >>97942394 have said, one of the conventional issues when worrying about hero power scaling is that heroes (or equivalent), while immensely powerful, are a limited resource. Yes, they are force multipliers, they have inordinate impact in whatever theater they operate in, and they can beat the odds and do the seemingly impossible. But they can't be everywhere, and there's only so many of them to go around. They are immensely valuable, both with regards to impact and investment. And yes, it does present the issue that some of the only things that can challenge a hero are other heroes or some form of dedicated anti-hero/hero-killer unit.tl;dr - A common limiting factor of heroes (or equivalent) on the battlefield is that they're a limited, highly valuable resource. Sure, they're immensely powerful and have outsized impact wherever they go, but they can't do everything by themselves or be everywhere at once.
>>97942596This, if only one side has an invincible walking super-weapon, then the other side are sitting ducks waiting to be fodderized with no means of breaking through enemy defenses
>>97942345Bo matter how powerful you are, an arrow is still lethal.
>>97942364Anon, why does your phone autocorrect "heroes" to "herpes"?
>>97942938NTA, but that doesn't mean much. Sailors will fuck anything feminine looking that has fuckable holes.
>>97944974I'm sure that's what all the level 1 people think.
>>97942345Which system?
>>97942388>sees cute girl>bitches about porn
>>97945065Have you seen the real world where the real new tool of war are cheap shitty drones?A mass of levies with crossbows is the equivalent to that in a fantasy setting. Nit fancy, but you don't need fancy you need results.
>>97945290I've heard it said that the drone is the most impactful change to warfare doctrine since Genghis Khan put stirrups on horses. Getting suicide drone'd would get annoying as fuck as a hero unit.
>>97945290>Have you seen the real worldI haven't seen a single dragon or teleporting wizard in the real world anon, so I'm not sure how the real world kills real people is relevant to how the fantasy world kills high level fantasy people.
>>97945374What would be fantasy's cheap shitty tool repurposed to become a high-value-target killer?
>>97945374Because cheap shitty and easily replaceable means of harming your enemy will always trump one flashy git. A dragon is scary yes, but it can be kept away by 10 ballistae which are faster to produce and train crew in than the decades or century+ it takes for a dragon to grow up big enough.
>>97945389doesn't exist, because high value targets are supernaturally tough so you can't just do a small amount of damage to a vital area. Nor do you have the aiming ability to do that with cheap things, you need some super good sniper to do the "hit the dragon in the weak point with your special arrow".>>97945402Do you have any idea how hard it is to aim with a ballista? You're never gonna hit a flying target moving fast, even if it's big, and that's assuming you can get it to aim up.
>>97945408All you need is one hit and the dragon is gone.Don't even need a ballista.
>>97945416you can't mass produce legendary archers like Bard the Dragon Slayer, anon. The entire point is that you need a single expensive unit (aka a hero) to defeat the dragon, not massed dudes.He was even of noble blood too (descendent of the lord of a city previously destroyed by the dragon).
>>97945402Stop playing shit games like 5E.
>>97945279>sees normal post on 4chan>assumes it's bitchingThe problem lies within you anon
>>97945290>>97945336What you're seeing from Ukraine with all the drones is just propaganda footage, you're not seeing all the misses and the drones getting intercepted or shot down. This applies to both sides in that conflict, btw.
>>97945484>bitches>gets defensive about it
>>97945495Yup. But you can send enough of them that a 90% intercept rate doesn't matter.
>>97945290>A mass of levies with crossbowsoh, gee, too bad I have this Heavy Armor Master Champion Fighter that has passive healing greater than 1000 crossbowman can deal in damage. Lets make him a sniper as well so he can pick off the crossbows at long range.Besides that, that's what the rest of the army is for. Getting the chumps to fight the chumps.Plus every single wargame out there lets you put leaders into squads with only special units able to pick them out. Y'know, any game that has mass combat with heroes. D&D doesn't have that because it's not a mass combat wargame.Wargames already have drones and mass crossbows. They don't mean as much as you think.
>>97945531>doubling down when proven wrongAlright be miserable you colossal faggot
>>97942345>have 30.000 soldiers>have 8 heroes>need to occupy 50 towns>need to guard 200 roads and camps>need to assault 30 different positionswhere do you deploy your 8 heroes for max gains
>>97946434Retard.
>>97946066Wargames like Old Worl where the best way to deal with a big guy is unironically lots of cheap shitty chaff.You challenge with the champion, he dies, but you win on static combat res and run the monster down. It just keeps happenei.
>>97946485Splitting your heroes just gets them killed. Mass them for greatest efficacy - your enemy must do the same or be picked off piecemeal.
>>97946684You're the one who couldn't tell someone was asking for sauce dude
>>97946066The DMG has rules for mobs, fortifications, and vehicles, including trebuchets, siege towers, and cannons. Very little imagination is required to stage fairly large land and naval battles. Since characters with class levels are so much more survivable, it suffices to simply have them auto success a Dex save against eg a breath attack and have the rest of the mob auto fail to satisfy any heoric or look out sir expectations.
>>9794234510th level fighters are rare, can't be everywhere, can be assassinated/stalled/restrained/captured.It's entirely a gamist consideration that a combatant is unkillable until they reach 0 hp. In the milieu, they are still mortal men that bleed and die when stabbed like everyone else they are just better at fighting.
>>97946997or they enemy splits up to sabotage your strategic assets while your unstoppable hero party is busy trying to pick off each one individually.real war isn't a self insert isekai fantasy where the protagonist always makes it just in time to solve the crisis every time
>>97945290With intelligent buff-stacking, one can immunize a hero against most mundane ranged projectiles, but yeah OP's premise is kind of flawed in that a level 10 fighter is actually going to struggle to make an effective trade of value with a sufficiently large army; the whole reason they have so much power packed into a single guy is so they can leverage that force in tight, confined dungeons where an army couldn't be brought to bare.
>>97948040That's the idea. Special forces (read: heroes) go where conventional forces can't. When they're stuck in alongside a conventional force, they make the force that much stronger.
>>97947365And real war favors mass of force, always has.
>>97947009Cope.
>>97942852Up until they meet the british…>>97942881Flanking doesn’t give advantage in of itself, you’d have to have something else giving advantage, though it’s still not going to be a fun time for the person in the middle.
>>97944974Protection from missiles.
>>97945402No, not really. High level threats are literally immune to almost all mundane attack forms. A single clay golem could, by itself, empty most population centers.
>>97942345Dear GOD those are some fat titties
>>97949516>A single clay golem could, by itself, empty most population centers.Wrong. Stop lying.https://roll20.net/compendium/dnd5e/Monsters:Clay%20Golem?expansion=33335
>>97949945Compare that to the stat block for a Guard, bearing in mind that if your HP maximum drops to 0 you instantly die, and that it's resistant to magic, it seems likely to be true.
>>97949945Retard.
>>97949996Not at all. It sounds like those guys that argue 12 Spaniards on horseback could defeat 200,000 aztecs in open battle and that the 200,000 Tlaxcalatec soldiers on their side were doing I dunno backup dancing?
>>97950067Are you implying the population center would deploy its own clay golem?
>>97949945Magic immunity, DR 10/adamantine and bludgeoning. Yes, the golem can in fact very easily slaughter almost everone in the world.
>>97950200You are playing an outdated edition.
>>97950203Cope.
>>97949945Like 200 peasants throwing rocks could absolutely btfo this thing
Nope.
>>97950708NOOOO!!! Not my golem!
>>97942852>>97949108I liken it to attempting to fisticuff a tank. It's possible for even the lowborn to cultivate the power and tools needed to challenge the big bad immortal bullies if they are sufficiently motivated, but bum-rushing an immortal with no strategy will get your ass kicked and there's nothing lady luck can do to help you.
>>97944996Why wouldn't it?
>>97945290The real world does not run on dicegame logic. In reality, human beings do not become more resilient the higher they are in the hierarchy. A level 10 deathfucker barbarian may tank hundred crossbow bolts fired by level 1 goblins. A general dies to the same bullet as a lieutenant, no matter who fired it.
>>97949108>Up until they meet the british…In the jade empire game you do meet the brittish, and after beating his ass in a duel you learn the greatest martial art of all: Gun.
>>97950708Good luck organizing these peasants.
>>97951564If we go by dicegame logic then anything is vulnerable to getting duffed by a peasant rolling high and the big guy rolling poorly.I've had Sauron get pushed back in melee combat by Hobbits(I think he only killed three all game) and luck out and take down elven heroes with orc-shooting in a single turn.
>>97951601Depends on the ruleset. There are games where armour is a flat damage reduction. Stack enough of that armour and low level dweeps that usually damage for 1d6+2 can't possibly scratch you even with a crit.
>>97951616I've seen too many monsters die the most retarded deaths to ever consider anything as invisible. For example, the fucking Hobbits couldn't actually wound Sauron, but they didn't need to they just shoved him away from his army and he just did nothing but get bullied.Another funny way I've seen monsters go down is from 40k where I saw a daemon prince charge a mob of grots, kill none, then die instantly. My personal favorite is the one time in Fantasy back in the day where some dude's lord on a dragon(I think he was dark elves) got sniped with a canon so the guy rage quit.
>>97951637wargames are a kind of dice game but not the only kind of dice game.I've seen plenty of monsters that are invincible against anything that doesn't have their specific weakness in my dice games.Good luck stopping a wraith with your peasants. Straight up immune to non-magical weapons.
>>97951699>wraith attacks >loses on combat res>crumbles and goes awayGG no re.
>>97951709>wargames are a kind of dice game but not the only kind of dice game.I'm just gonna keep repeating this until you understand
>>97951711>it doesn't countSure dude, your totally op super sand lesbian can solo the world. Whatever.
>>97951731What a weird fucking response to being told that more than one tabletop game exists.
>>97951731Anon, this is purely a mechanical discussion. There are no personal stakes here, and I don't think anyone is as emotionally invested as you might think.It's just a matter of fact thst there are situations in games where one combatant is completely invincible against another combatant.
