D&D 5e (meaning anything from DnDNext playtests to the current date) is often criticized for the fact that martials cannot do anything in combat except attack. However, this is not true. In the first and most egregious case, it is not true because before or after each attack taken as part of the attack action, not the attack action itself, you can stow or retrieve one weapon. Therefore regardless of your loadout, you can always move between having no empty hand and having at least one empty hand with ease. This allows all martials to participate in grappling, which with the newer rules is even more reliable. Actually perhaps even more egregious than the grappling is that without even a free hand requirement, every single character in the entire goddamn game is entitled to make an unarmed strike with their foot or shield bash or whatever in order to Shove. This allows you to either (try to) spam prone, giving you advantage on attack rolls to spam crits or sneak attacks (or even large crossbow shots with crossbow expert and sharpshooter--sigh), then further procing things like piercer. Or, as you can freely use movement between attacks in the same Attack action, you can shove the creature then interpose yourself between it and some ally. You do not need any combat style feats or Paladin class features to do this. You can look out sir by just playing the game RAW and using more than 1/4th of one brain cell. You can just do it.
And yes you can shove with your shield. You don't need shield master feat to do that, actually read the rules with your eyes open. Furthermore, at any time on their turn with an action remaining, anyone is always entitled to take an Improvised action. So if you want to trip or disarm or such, you can. There are already rules for it from other places like certain class features or the DMG that don't require much imagination or fiat to implement, you just need to tell the DM you wanna. This does not encroach on any dedicated feats or Battle Master maneuvers because those always do these special effects *in addition to* damage, where your improvized action won't. And it frankly makes sense that only a battle master or swashbuckler could do fancy shmancy I want my father back you son of a bitch shit, it's complicated intricate shit compared to attacking or shoving, especially against a trained defensive enemy. And never forget flavor is free. If you want to parry, just reflavor a shield as a dueling dagger and say you're parrying. Or better yet take defensive duelist then you can use an actual dagger that also functions as a real weapon and still say you're parrying. Again a shove could be a shield bash or kick.
And all this doesn't even touch the latest versions of the rules having weapon masteries. These let most but not quite all martials use at least one more tactical effect repeatedly. Some of these are quite brainless like Graze but something like Vex or Nick begs to have entire builds based around it. None of this requires you to cheat by intentionally misreading Dual Wielder to "juggle" or any such nonsense, it's simply all RAI and there's a reason Fighters used to have proficiency in Unarmed Strikes back when that was a thing in older versions. I mean people always compare to Pathfinder 2e but Pathfinder 2e is not better and might even be worse. For example, all your fancy non-"Strike" attack actions can critically fail on a 1 or even higher because of how the 10-off rule works, and these leave you significantly better off than if you just never tried. Strike itself has no failure or critical failure penalty, it can at worst wiff. And there isn't even a dodge action, the best you can do is use Parry 3 times (+3 AC is ~equivalent to imposing disadvantage if you and the monster are both scaling with party level correctly) but most weapons don't even let you do that so people end up doing stupid shit like spamming Intimidate which is just immersion breaking and dumb. Pathfinder 2e does not have better non-damage combat mechanics than 5e. People who talk about 5e on the internet just can't read.
You know what else I can do?Make my own game with everything I want instead of paying for a system to fix its gaping neck wounds.Good offer, though.
>>97949466PF2E is absolutely better, you just have total dogshit standards for martials doing things. Grappling and pushing people around and tripping them wasn't enough in 3.5 where you could do it way more effectively than you can in 5E. Why the fuck would I think it's enough now?
Have you tried not playing DnDogshit?
>>97949459>Martials can do extremely basic things other than attack!And?If my hardtack has salt and pepper on it, its still fucking hardtack; barely edible, flavorless, dry-wall wafer. They need to actual excel at these stupid fucking things, not just have basic competency. The wizard and the cleric can do things too, but those things are vastly better than what the martial is doing.
>>97949459>>97949460>>97949466The fundamental problem has ALWAYS ALWASY been the fact that attacking is simpley BETTER than trying to do anything else.This is why the battlemaster bundles attacks with extra effects, because it's very rarely worth just shoving someone or knocking them prone when you could be doing damage.Ironically, the more effective martials are at doing damage, the worse the situation get. When you're playing an optimized character, your choices are>attack and kill the enemy>tickle them with a very minor inconvenience like prone or shove or disarm
>>97949459You know what's better than shoving someone with your first attack so that you have advantage with your second attack? Just making two attacks.There's a reason True Strike is a garbage cantrip, and here you are recommending the version of True Strike with a chance to fail entirely.And in some ways it's even worse, for example>This allows you to either (try to) spam prone, giving you advantage on attack rolls to spam crits or sneak attacks (or even large crossbow shots with crossbow expert and sharpshooter--sighBy knocking the enemy prone you're giving all of the ranged members of your party disadvantage. Even in the best case scenario, where you roll well on your Shove attempt, and the rest of the party has their own melee weapons to capitalize, you could still get screwed over purely by initiative order if the monster goes before your party members, letting it stand up right away. You should try actually playing the game instead of just reading the rules and assuming that nobody else read them. Did you also know that by RAW you can fall prone whenever you want? That doesn't make it a good idea in most situations.
There is no magic in my homebrew setting that I have been running games in with 5E since 2014.
>>97949459I think you're wrong. I dont care enough to fact check it but iirc you cannot draw as part of an attack. Getting to do it is a common house rule. You also cannot stow a weapon, you have to drop it as a free action. You CAN trip or whatever, but its a waste of an action in a DPS race game. You CAN grapple if you hate having GWM or a shield, but that only stops movement. You need to do it twice to actually restrain something, and it will just kill you in return because your grapples eat actions and it's saves are free.Pf2e has lots and lots of issues but combat options for martials is not one of them
>>97949921>iirc you cannot draw as part of an attack. Getting to do it is a common house rule. You also cannot stow a weapon, you have to drop it as a free action.PHB page 361. Equipping and Unequipping Weapons. You can either equip or unequip one weapon when you make an attack as part of this action. You do so either before or after the attack. If you equip a weapon before an attack, you don't need to use it for that attack. Equipping a weapon includes drawing it from a sheath or picking it up. Unequipping a weapon includes sheathing, stowing, or dropping it.>You CAN grapple if you hate having GWM or a shield,You wouldn't be donning and doffing your shield. You'd be stowing and drawing your weapon. See above.>optionsWasn't the point of my post. 2e does have more options, they also have a high chance to make you worse off than if you'd just attacked and missed which the whole thing people are bitching about is that it's always most optimal to attack as a 5e problem.
>>97949921Love how inane you 5E people are about this shit. Like you’re so comically far removed from what tabletop rpgs are supposed to be, but the dogma of 5E completely overpowers you, that you get trapped in online arguments that boil down to microtransactions within an action economy. It would be utterly and entirely sad if it wasn’t also just plain funny for the rest of us to observe
>>97949921>free action5e doesn't have free actions ChatGPT.
>>97949807>You should try actually playing the game instead of just reading the rules and assuming that nobody else read them.I know for a fact that a not insignificant amount of commenters on this board and otherwise have only ever read the character creation part of the PHB and not the part with the rules let alone the DMG. That's where the misconceptions about what you can and cannot do come from.>>97949921>DPS race gameOnly if you choose to play it that way. You could also rig a trap or hire some mercs or talk no juutsu. It's a roleplaying sandbox.
>>97949970>complete non-sequiturWhat the fuck do trapping, mercs, and diplomacy have to do with comparing a combat option's effectiveness against another one? Are you retarded? Fuck you for moving the goalpost you faggot.
>>97950000Imagine pushing the foe into a pit trap.
>>97950031Oops they were flying! Go fuck yourself.
>>97950038Now you're starting to get it.
>>97950031Imagine a foe politely standing next to a pit trap because you can only shove them 5 feet. Meanwhile OP also mentions Piercer as a feat, when you could also take Crusher and be able to push someone 5 feet while also dealing damage to them at the same time.And you know what's even better than that? Playing a Warlock and being able to push someone 10/20/30/40 feet with an Eldritch Blast from across the battlefield.That's the part that makes it seem like you haven't played, because you're imagining the ideal scenario where a Shove will instantly defeat an enemy, while failing to realize how rare that scenario is in actual play, on top of how even then it's still worthless because there are drastically superior ways to push an enemy in the situations where pushing them is the optimal tactic.
>>97949459The argument you're sperging out about is not the argument most people actually make. Martials don't exist in a vacuum, every level of martial has the opportunity cost of a level of caster. And casters get to do control and damage at the same time, from level 1, which a much larger resource pool than superiority dice. Regardless, I've always found the idea that doing nothing but attacking every round being boring to be a skill issue. Most battle cartoons play out this way and are still entertaining because getting to drop someone isn't really the point.
>>97949459Let's be generous and assume we have 20 in every ability score, and that Proficiency always applies.At 4th level, we roll with +7.CR 4 monster : elephant. +8 grapple modifier. AC 12. So our grapple attempt is already worse than a coin flip. If it fails, we wasted our turn, and now we get to take 7 to 21 damage.8th level, +8 grapple.CR 8, frost giant. +9 grapple. AC 15.12th level, +9 grapple.CR 12, mad golem. +10 grapple. AC 17.16th level, +10 grapple.CR 16, zodar. +13 grapple. AC 20.20th level, +11 grapple.CR 20, pit fiend. +14 grapple. AC 21.As you can see, grappling sucks dick. The monster is more likely to suplex you, and it is much easier to get bonuses to weapon attack rolls than to strength in 5e, and there are a lot more buffs and debuffs related to attacking, so while monster AC does scale comparably to grapple modifiers, it's always easier for a fighter's attack rolls to keep pace than for their grapple checks. And unlike grapple checks, fighters get extra attacks as they level, multiplying their effectiveness. Any grapple attempt has an opportunity cost of 2+ attacks, so it's never a good use of your action, unless the target is immune to all of your weapons, in which case running away is the best use of your turn, not grappling.
>>97950122How in the actual fuck is animation related in any way to D&D combat? Animation does it for narrative stakes. It's not simulating anything. It gets to have peaks and valleys depending on what the author and animators want, the plot, and so on. A show that was effectively slugging back and forth with no changeups, just brainless punching until someone drops would rightfully be called shit.
>>97950031Which class feature caused the pit trapn to exist? Oh right, there isn't one. DM pity is not a feature of a class. Too bad you didn't pick one of the classes that can cause pits to exist.
>>97949932>PHB page 361The PHB doesn't even have that many pages.
>>97949932Which phb?You cant grab a guy and still make gwm two-handed attacks, and attacking is better. Thats the problem. The "high chance" of failure is if you roll 10 below their save when your effects should be on your best stats. Yes they can backfire, but they also stack which heavily influences the opportunity cost. Intimidate into offguard into sneak attack for example, will tripple your damage compared to just stabbing. >>97949935This is a 5e thread. Noone is making you read it>>97949938Ok>>97949970>Only if you choose to play it that wayBecause i want to live. I guess i could lose the DPS race and get my guy killed instead, its technically a "choice" to do that
>>97949932PHB page 190 specifies that you can only interact with ONE object on your turn without using your action, and it specifically cites drawing your weapon as an example.
>>97949935the action economy is the only thing that matters in all games, even those that have no rules at all.
>>97950173I agree, but you made a slight mistake. CR is balanced around a party, so a level 1 adventurer isnt a CR1 creature, they're a CR1/4 Creature. The level 12 character should be grappling the elephant. Also its a DC when its a difficulty check, only armour class has an AC
>>97950219A party of level N is expected to encounter monsters of CR N.Therefore, if a fighter is level 4, and adventuring with a party, the monsters he enocunters will be CR 4, on average. Not CR 1. So we compare him to the monsters he will actually encounter.Grappling is an opposed strength or dexterity check.PLEASE read the rules of your own fucking game.
>>97950233>the monsters he enocunters will be CR 4, on averageNo, they will be level four IN TOTAL (per encounter and assuming standard difficulty). Most groups play deadly so any given encounter will be 2xCR, so an entire party would face two frost giants. In which case i think you'll find even hold-monster has coinflip odds of failing, since its assumed you can cast it four times a turn. No offence, but are you ESL? it seems odd that you would use specific math terms incorrectly like that
>>97950269Nothing I said was incorrect. A CR N monster is an appropriate challenge for a level N party, according to the text of the book. That is what challenge rating MEANS. I don't care what you think most groups do, not that you can show it anyway. In a discussion of the rules, I will be using the rules.
>>97950219So are you going to apologize for being wrong and a liar?
>>97950269Hold on, what do you think "on average" means in that sentence?
>>97950201Yes it says one object, not one object one time. Juggling is RAW, deal with it. Also, you're posting superseded rules.>>97950233>Grappling is an opposed strength or dexterity check.Superseded. It's more like a spell save DC now.
>>97950269Hey, heyRetard.If you have an encounter for a level 4 PCAnd the challenge is lower CR enemies instead of one at CR enemyYour combat maneuvers do less to enemy capabilities and your damage goes up in value because it reduces enemy capabilities faster
>>97950398Sorry bud, I determine which edition you're allowed to play.
>>97949459A level 20 martial in 5E still gets mogged by a peasant dirt farmer in almost any other system that doesn't suck.
>>97949459Every character can "just do stuff". If the only benefit of a class is that I can do the same thing as everyone else (without even being better at it), then why wouldn't I play a better class instead?
>>97949970>Only if you choose to play it that way. If you have to deliberately kneecap yourself to have fun, the game is shit. The fun way to play should also be the best way.>You could also rig a trap or hire some mercs or talk no juutsu. It's a roleplaying sandbox.None of these things are things the other classes can do. In fact the other classes are better at it then martials because they get specific tools to ease all three of these.
>>97949970Sure, we can! Lets take a look at the rules in the rulebook and figure out how to do these things.Mundane Traps : We need to make a Craft (Trapmaking) check, so we'll need Craft as a class skill. So fighter's out,Magical traps : These require spellcasting as a component, so we'll need caster levels.Hiring mercenaries : Leadership is based on Charisma, so we'll want a class that benefits from Charisma. All Charisma based classes have spellcasting.Diplomacy : Charisma, again. Even better would be to have access to spells.Is there any strategy you can name that isn't most effective when used by a caster? Remember, casters can summon monsters that are more useful than fighters, so not even hitting things (the least effective strategy in the game) satisfies this requirement.
>>97950524I forgot to mention, almost all things that you can "just do" use skills, and skill points are based on intelligence, and casters have the highest intelligence, and the best intelligence skill point scaling.
>>97950529And casters can craft their own magic items to boost their intelligence. No one else can.
>>97950173>>97950269The best part about all of this is that a Fighter can't grapple or shove most of those monsters at all. In 5e, whatever you're trying to grab or shove can only be one size larger. So a Medium Fighter can't even try to grapple a Huge elephant, giant or golem.And the last two also aren't exactly viable either, given that both of them can fly.So for the first three, the Fighter needs a way to magically grow to be Large, and for the last two, he'll need Winged Boots or some other magical form of flight. And all of this for what basically amounts to a coin flip that he might prevent an enemy from moving or possibly give a melee ally some advantage. >>97949970And just for humor's sake let's look at some of those other 'creative' options. A pit fiend has 22 Int and 18 Wis, and truesight out to 120 feet. It's not falling for a Fighter's trap. It has a fear aura and at-will fireballs to roast any mercenaries, on top of resisting common weaponry. And a Lawful Evil Devil with 24 Charisma, talking seems like the worst option. I'd say that the Fighter would do well to plug his ears to avoid the superhuman levels of temptation, but it also has telepathy, so fuck you anyway. The Fighter isn't choosing for the game to be a DPS race. He's praying for it, because his best hope of actually beating a Pit Fiend is for it to land next to him and exchange melee attacks round after round.
>>97949970What part of being a fighter helps you craft a trap, hire mercenaries, or talk to people? If I want to use these options, which should I pick fighter instead of a class that is good at using these options?
The silence is deafening.
>>97949459Video game brain. Has been a problem since 2e.
>>97950926so you can't answer anything that was asked?
>>97950926well?
>>97949799The niche of control martial is incumbent on high damage hazards, either placed by the party or the DM. Then it becomes>attack and deal ~10 damage to a 150+ HP enemy>minorly inconvenience them so they take an additional 4d10 save vs Storm of Radiance, staying blinded and unable to use verbal componentsMade even funnier when you lean into grappling and can toss enemies around so they can't effectively address your party without first addressing you.
>>97950975There was not a single question in op. Learn to read.
>>97950122>which a much larger resource pool than superiority dice4d8 mogs for healing at level 3
>>97950278Show me where the rules say >encounters should be exactly 1 CRn monster every timeBecause thats not how its set out in any of the modules you clearly havent read...>>97950310The average CR of all encounters will trend towards (player level) Thats my bad, its an ambiguous sentence>>97950404Unless the maneuver is rally or sweep or anything that kills them faster. You know. The meta ones? you absolute fucking buffoon>>97950671Trip and restrain are kino against flying enemies thoughbeit. Trip maneuver on a sharpshooting longbow fighter is hilarious
>>97951048you mean fail to grapple anything and get destroyed.
>>97951050Read the thread before replying, retard.
>>97951072too bad trip is a waste of an action that will almost always fail huh
>>979510484E did this a million times better.
>>97951072>Trip and restrain are kino against flying enemies thoughbeit. Trip maneuver on a sharpshooting longbow fighter is hilariousActual Battlemaster maneuvers have a purpose. But OP is acting like Fighter players are fools for not using the generic Shove action.And of course, if we're talking about a longbow Fighter, then the numbers are even worse, since that PC won't have the 20 Strength that even makes a contested Athletics check against a Pit Fiend feasible. That said, one of those two flying enemies hovers, so even with Tripping Attack it doesn't actually do anything helpful. There's just so many ways that monsters in the game passively screw over any effort from a Fighter to do something that isn't just dealing as much damage as possible.
>>97951103Opportunity cost my dear boy. Tripping strike is an attack that trips, so i still do my damage. And if they trip they fall (which you would know if you'd ever played the game), which means that the trip does damage. Falling forces a flying enemy to the ground, which means melee units can close in, which does damage. Roll to trip? Shit. Roll to cause damage using a class feature? Viable.
>>97951167Yeah, op's retarded
>>97951169yes, the opportunity cost of anything that isn't an attack means you should always attack, since anything else is practically guaranteed to fail and will barely have any effect even if it succeeds. Moron.
>>97949799I've tried many times to be the martial with some flavor, and every fucking time it makes combat take more time, it puts the whole party at risk because they are subjected to more rounds of combat, and rarely achieves anything, even just a cool moment, and it's never as effective as just focusing down one target at a time until they are dead.
>>97949459I just work with my DM and we set up cool moments for Zealot-Fighterman to be THE WALL he's designed to be. Its been pretty funny when we get into RP environments and they just freeball minor combat with dudes getting annoying to allow me to turn into a brutal pugulist who is ramming his Rage Fueled Divine Authority into some dudes jaw like its a Korean Manhwa and im The Fist Emperor of Mt.Tai(Reincarnated) or whatever bs title.I'm surprised that the one time they let me get away with requesting an Athletics roll as an advanced-foreward action for my next turn to rush between the enemy and our bard to intentionally eat a critical hit that was going to most definitly kill their ass after seeing the damage roll afterward. Actually made the lvl-13 martial life feel herculean in that moment. Rules be damned, just talk to your stupid GM and mother-may-I when a cool moment pops up in your head and haven't done much besides stand there and whack shit with a stick the whole fight.
>>97949799https://oddskullblog.wordpress.com/2021/11/15/combat-maneuvers-the-easy-way/>You declare whatever thing you want to do and make an attack roll against your opponent. If you get a hit, the opponent has the choice to either let the maneuver happen, or take the regular damage of the attack per normal rules. This simple rule fixed it for me, really. I went on to create my own d100 roll-under system in which there's always the option to make a tactical maneuver and an ability check in stead of a normal attack to affect the target in some way. The referee determines if there should be a bonus or a malus to the check. It presents meaningful choices to the players in combat and makes them feel impactful through emphasizing ingenuity. A player may choose to act in a way that's not an attack, but the maneuver action will reward him later more than just attempting to attack a foe. It's in the same line of thinking making the foes problems to be solved in any plausible way and not just target practice / punching bags every time.
>>97951096You can also miss your attack rolls, so since we agree that the fail state is nothing happening, let's compare success states instead.
>>97949460>he needs to reflavour to compensate for dogshit mechanics and a lack of options for martial charactersThis is your brain on 5e>"read the rules with your eyes open">"all your fancy non-"Strike" attack actions can critically fail on a 1 or even higher because of how the 10-off rule works">meaning he did not in fact read the pf2e rules with his eyes openYou just can't make this shit up. I don't know how 5etards do it.>People who talk about 5e on the internet just can't readWe know. You're one of them.
>>97949466>>97949460>>97949459Okay, but a Martial will not out-damage a caster past level 4, and will struggle even before then. This is because most people don't factor in AoEs. Burning Hands is not doing 2d8 Fire damage. It's doing 2d8 * Number of targets in the AoE fire damage. With just two targets, it does 4d8 damage. With three, it's 6d8. And fireball makes this even worse with 8d6 * targets in the AoE at 5th level.What Martials need (and what I gave my overhauled Fighter, Barbarian, and Paladin) are AoEs like the abilities martials had in 4e. Also, it's probably a good idea to give fighters, rogues, monks, and rangers maneuvers with a d6 die, and give Fighters more of these aoe abilities and maneuvers than the other classes to compensate for the fact Fighter gets fucking nothing in terms of features.>>97949555PF2e has its own issues, namely any interesting abilities being tied to Feats rather than the class itself. PF2e's feat bloat design ruins it, to the point >>97949476 applies to PF2e to the same measure it applies to 5e/5.5e, to the point that's what I did. Any changes I made to my 5.5 overhauls were adapted and added upon in my own system, where martials also have access to Enhancement Arts which are extra powers that you can use based on your Class to get extra attacks, do more damage, buff your numbers for a round, or other anime bullshit. This is on top of Tactical Strikes (4e style AoEs), Tactical maneuvers (a list of abilities similar to 5.5's battlemaster maneuvers granted to several classes), Martial Talents (think 5.5 warlock invocations but built from the ground up for martials to enhance their abilities or give them new ones like higher jumps, lesser and eventually negated falling damage, bonuses to skills, or enhancements to types of combat), and Combat Styles (Fighting Style Feats from 5.5, again expanded and adjusted for the system). This is on top of casters being weaker (to the point that I'm probably going to have to buff em).
>>97953825PF2e relies entirely on feats to let you do anything cool, and while yes, these are baked into the classes unlike 5e/5.5 where they're mostly nothingburger options and/or replace an ASI, there are absolutely good and bad options and plenty of trap options that look good but are actually shit, not to mention the fact PF2e relies so heavily on feats means the martial classes have basically no innate abilities to define them, especially Fighter where it's defining ability is a slightly better Attack of Opportunity. I don't see why PF2e isn't classless at that point, it would be a better system if it was.Instead, I'd rather my classes and archetypes/subclasses/whatever have actual meat on their bones, with class-specific options that enhance or build upon what the class already does rather than basically having to build the class myself and pretend that class is relevant when all that really matters is your feat choice.
OP sure knows how to type a lot. Maybe he needs to learn how to read next.
Interesting how no matter what angle they're coming from over 90% of the replies boil down to "there should be a class feature for that." There's no helping you.
>>97953884>I'd rather my classes and archetypes/subclasses/whatever have actual meat on their bones>he says while insisting on 5eYou have to be joking
>>97953591I really like the linked method, with one addition. Pits and the like in combat have a rating based on how dangerous and easy-to-fall-in they are. In my game it's 10, 20, 30, etc. If the enemy is in the danger zone for the pit and is hit by an opponent who wants to push them, check the targets hit points against the rating. If the rating is higher, the target is immediately thrown in. Mooks go in pits real fast. Bosses need pummelling and can then be finished with them.
>>97950173As I am a retard that likes grappling I will have to point out a couple flaws (this is all for 2014 so if things changed I am sorry)1.Grappling is done with an Athletics check vs Athletics or Acrobatics and thus is affected by everything that affects skills2.Grappling uses AN attack; not the whole actionYou are right on almost every point otherwise though and it does take quite a bit of work to make grappling worth it. Which makes OP a fag.
>>97956314Grappling still only uses one attack but now has a set DC of 8 + PB + STR making it significantly easier for the initiating entity to win for better or worse. That said casters have many more egregious forced saves and nobody has ever felt the need to houserule it to anything different.
>>97949459The fact you assume the fighter doesnt already have advantage from the million possible sources is why i honestly believe you dont really play dnd 5e. Advantage is the worst mechanic dnd 5e has, it is too easy to get and doesnt stack.Also the fighter cannot knock down massive creatures, but any caster can give the fighter advantage.In party-play in 5e, the optimal use of the fighter is rolling as many damaging attacks and damage dice as possible, while the casters deal with the crowd control (they are a million times better at everything except dps towards a single target.)
>>97957233 (me)You could be 10ft away from a lava pit and the optimal action for the fighter is still hit as much as you can, every other class is better suited to moving the target into the volcano.
>>97954974Yeah, there should be. Games are defined by their rules, retard.
