>>97956147They have their shitty libtard groomer discord paragraph memes and they seem to like them, I don't see the issue
>>97956147And that's our problem how exactly?
>>97956147/tg/ is completely fucking dead and has been for years anon
>>97956173tsa cool setting>>97956679go away and don't waste your time here then?
>>97956160this desune didnt /tg/ disown lancer or smth???
>>97956147>The Lancer community doesn't have a /tg/ presenceGood.
>>97956160First Post Best PostLeave the /poltards/ and their propaganda game to their Shitcord server. Nobody wants them here.
>>97956147>>97956160Every time Lancer is mentioned on /tg/ I'm going to bring up the fact that I saw a guy get banned from their Discord server for asking if there were factions like the Enclave from Fallout that he could use as antagonists. The mods thought this was a "dogwhistle" in "support of fascism". Reminder he was asking for ideas for an ANTAGONIST faction. The fanbase Lancer has cultivated are not mentally well. I highly suspect most of them don't even play the game and are just there to circle-jerk over eachother's politics. I don't think anyone wants those mentally ill faggots here.
>>97956147Good. I tried to look into Lancer once. I even joined their community Discord. HOLY FUCK what a mistake that was. These people have politics brain-rot even worse than /pol/ and I honestly think some of them are a threat to themselves and others. Keep them far the fuck away from /tg/.
>>97957007Which is particularly weird because the game does literally have a faction like that. And they're PLAYABLE.Harrison Armory are literally actually unironically runaway Space Nazis hiding in Space Argentina after barely escaping Space Nuremberg. And you can buy a mech designed to burn unarmed civilians from them.
Lancer disappointed me. I saw the really cool art and mechas and they looked super neat, then I find out it the entire setting basically has incurable AIDS baked into its DNA. I'll just go somewhere else for my Robots I guess.
>>97956147Worse, their communities are entirely on discord, tumblr, and bluesky where they've been recycling the same dozen mspaint memes where it's some shit like>[EVEREST] is going to [BLAST] A [LOAD] in [YOUR] [HOT] [STEAMY] [CARGO HOLD]That they stole from 4chan.
>>97958902
>>97959400Forgive me if I am wrong, but are they this retarded and angry about everything that they are saying you need literal gay politics in your mech stories or else you have nothing?
>>97957007Its just liberal gate keeping, the dark mirror to us calling everyone a faggot. I mean it doesn't change the fact you are actually a faggot but I digress.
>>97959482Yes, that is what is being said.They unironically believe that you need the three Fs to qualify as a mecha story: Faggots Fighting Fascism.
>>97957007I knew they were mentally gone when published campaigns started to paint HA as worse than the Barronies.Like actual salvers are fine? What?
>>97959400Ah yes, the famous political themes and "gay stuff" of Gaogaigar, Godannar, Gravion, Dragonar, Orguss...Something tells me the person has never actually watched mecha anime and only read a summary of Mobile Suit Gundan.
>>97959817To be fair, most of the /a/ memes surrounding the same were originally meant to be very tongue in cheek on just how fujos got super obsessive over male rivalries got in shows like Gundam or how shit like Shinji and Kaoru was confirmed to be super gay as fuck cause Shinji was too fucked up for hetero romance. Granted, I don’t know if that’s the case nowadays.
>>97959628Slavery is fine when browns are doing it. Learn the rules, chuddie.
>>97959400At this point why even have the robots? Just do gay ERP and skip the filler shit.
>>97959985They mostly do. The "game" comes with an app that automates away all combat
>>97960002Somehow this doesn't surprise. It's like when D&D 5e fags advertise games that are "50% roleplay/50% combat" and then almost never have any combat because no sane DM actually wants to deal with what a dumpster fire the system's combat is.
>>97960094
>>97960143It will never cease to amaze me the same people who cry and bitch about how evil the police and government are love using said police and government to enforce their own ideology.
>>97960143Abolition of what exactly?
>>97960165I unironically want to reeducate these people Clockwork Orange-style with eyelid clamps and a continuous feed of random chimp event bodycam footage until they learn what policing is really like.
>>97960218It was a LE ABOLISH LE POLICE rant, nevermind the fact their ideal "utopia" is a communist police state that forcibly stamps out and consumes any independent nations.
>>97960041Post games
>>97960143But isn't civilization in Lancer basically run by an all-powerful omni-government that uses literal giant robots and super-AI to control every facet of it's ciitzens' lives across multiple worlds? Yeah, there's no resource scarcity and life on the core worlds is "safe", but it's basically a peace enforced by absolute authoritarian force.
>>97960325Yeah, but it's the Government so it's alright.Leftoids are incapable of holding two ideas at the same time.
>>97960325Correct. And said gangster computer god also told them Manifest Destiny is Moral and Just and they should oppress and conquer every single disparate mudfarmer living in peaceful isolation as they can.
>>97960325Union in Lancer is basically the Imperium of Man from Warhammer 40k if the Imperium wern't scared of technology and actually knew how to manage their resources.Which basically makes the Tau. But the Tau are also an authoritarian dictatorship where none of the citizens have any freedom or agency to determine their roles in life or change the system that controls their lives in a meaningful way, soo...
>>97957007So if the whole galaxy are faggot limp wristed hippies do they just fight other faggot limp wristed hippies?
>>97960325Yeah but as always they imagine themselves being the ones behind the controls of the magical god machine rather than crushed between the cogs.Their every complaint can be boiled down to "Why are you peasants stopping me from reaching my manifest destiny as your Philosopher-King? Do you plebs even appreciate how much effort its going to be to rule over you smelly, unwashed masses and garb you in the clothe of civilization? Honestly, if I weren't as good as I am I wouldn't even bother."
Fuck you, I like the memes.Lancer would be better as a semi-casual skirmish wargame though. The TTRPG trappings don't do much of anything.
>>97960673Yeah but then it would have to be an actual game with mechanics and shit rather than a politically charged self-pleasuring device.Lancer could easily be replaced by a fleshlight that reads Das Kapital in Karl Marx voice in tempo with your jerking and it'd probably sell to the exact same people in the exact same quantities.
>>97960673This is so incredibly faggy I don't have words to express how fucking gay and retarded it is.
>>97960551Lancer, very ironically, reads as extremely white savior-esque. Like whenever a heartwarming movie about a minority has to have some white woman be supporting them or some white dude enabling them, implying that they couldn't on their own. I get the idea, that Union is a post-scarcity paradise and wants to spread that prosperity to the people that don't have it, but there's a reason the Star League was told to go fuck off when it wanted to do that to the Periphery. Because even if your intentions are noble and good, you're still imposing >>(You)r will on people that may very well never have asked you to, don't want you to, and may very well be in the mess that they're in because someone thought the same thing you did earlier and trampled all over their wishes. It's fair that you want to spread basically paradise to others, but you're not a good person for trampling over people's wishes in doing so. You're just a conqueror who thinks himself a shepherd of animals.
>>97960777It's the same shit that has been going on for thousands of years.>What did the Romans ever do for us>Get uppity and mad at Romans anyway>Overthrow Romans>Proceed to blame Romans until the end of time>Meanwhile said Romans actually treated their occupants fairly well all things considering if another tribe were to take over
>>97960673If this is what counts for the memes Lancerfags can produce, then you deserve every single bit of vitriol I've ever read towards you.
>>97960673>WORDS WORDS WORDS WORDS WORDSThey really weren't kidding about Lancer being a lefty game
>>97959519Based. Now if only this worked on 4chan, this site wouldn't be such a shithole.
>>97960852The right can't read.
>>97960942Brevity is the soul of wit, retard.
>>97960673This alone has convinced me to NEVER try Lancer, holy fuck. This is quite possibly the most retarded unfunny thing I have seen on /tg/ in like a month.
>>97960942Try using a consistent font that isn't eye-bleed-inducing next time. Why the fuck are you writing your "meme" with word-cutouts like it's a ransom note for the cops?
>>97960673Damn >>97956160 called you out right out the gate. You've been thoroughly gaped and dominated.
>>97960777Their paradise is also hypocritically built on the backs of literal slave labor and funded/armed by what are supposed to be space nazis, so it's a false prosperity to boot.
>>97960673>Fuck you, I like the memes.I think you might be too retarded to know what a meme is. That image is not a meme. It's word-vomit, both visually and literally. Please take your meds so you stop seeing things in literal piles of garbage.
>>97960777The only thing Union has going for them is "post-scarcity" (which only works because of an ABSURD amount of author-fiat and plot-armor), and even that mainly only applies to the core worlds. Aside from that one positive, it's pretty much a dystopian nightmare built on aggressive imperialism, slave labor, and war crimes... all under the careful gaze of a literal AI-overlord. Union is an actual dystopian nightmare, and neither the author or the retarded fanbase has even the midwit-level intelligence to see it despite it doing things they openly call atrocities in real life. Actual real, literal, undeniably retardation.
>>979561601st post best postNobody is posting these threads but asspained /pol/fags.
>>97961227>Can't help but making it longerlol
>>97962037It's not that they don't see it.It's that secretly? Deep down?They're fine with that shit as long as they get to live in the goon pod, consume the edible funko pops that daddy government rations out to them and call themselves the communes inter-racial LGBTQWFUwU22+StarringDanteFromTheDevilMayCrySeries interpretive dance instructor.In fact, they're eager for it, the spite of useless fuckheads towards any functional society is unending, because they know they'd fail to compete. Lancer is the useless fuckheads getting their hands on plot-magic and using them to stomp all over any attempt to create a society far and distant from them and their terminally gay ideology.
>>97957007Lancer is unironically one of the most insane games ever. I’ve never seen a game made by people who claim to be liberals that is about being jackbooted thugs crushing innocent people in the name of your corporate overlords and their puppet galactic government.
>>97962535>switch the PCs for whatever Blackwater is calling themselves nowadays>switch the faction backing them for Halliburton or Rio Tinto>switch the antagonists for a bunch of tribals who are living on the oilfield of lithium deposit they bought from the local dictatorWhen you think about it, Lancer's published modules are basically the platonic ideal of a Steven Seagal movie, only with the villains as the protagonists.
>>97962665It’s extremely bizarre that Lancer happily describes itself as gay space communism and simultaneously invests power in four extremely nightmarish corporate mega states. I’m not even sure what message they really want to push with the Union seemingly being powerless to do anything but crush far weaker people “for their own good” while groups like Harrison continue to do what they want.
>>97962709Not to go too deep into arm chair psychology here, but I think part of it is that, on some level at least, every communist knows their ideology only "works" by engaging in absolute, ball-and-soul crushing tyranny.They know, deep down, that the only way they get their luxury gay space communism is if it's floating across an endless sea of slaves to do the actual work and suffering of those who wouldn't yield to such things.It's part of why they project "Oh well exploitation is a fundamental cornerstone of the ideology" onto Capitalism. It couldn't possibly be that Billy is willing to work for a wage at his Uncle Bobs plumbing business, no-no, Billy is basically a slave and should hang his uncle from a lamp post.Because in their system Billy wouldn't be working for his Uncle for mediocre pay, he'd be working for the party and given no compensation at all. After all, everyone wants to be the political theorist, no one wants to clean clogged toilets and therefore someone is going to have to be made to do it under threat of force.There's a story called "The Ones who walk away from Ormelas" which is effectively a reinterpretation of Dostoyevsky's discussion of the crucifixion but replaces spiritual salvation with materialistic pleasure, written by Le Guin, which could be strongly argued to be part confession that they don't really believe Utopia for all is something that can happen, part polemic about how if you refuse to engage in Utopianism then that makes you a bastard rather than them blind to reality (And yes, you read that right, the main two arguments are "This can't work" and "You're a bastard for thinking this can't work") and part her trying to cope with having had an abortion at a decisive point in her writing career and justifying how everything she built atop a dead child was worth the suffering of that child. Which she's so certain of that she wrote an entire story about it to convince herself.
>>97960346At least Tau-fags in the 40k Fandom (usually) realize that the Tau aren't really "good", they're just the least shitty option in a sea of abhorrently shitty options.Lancer-fags genuinely unironically think Union's dystopian imperialist police-state is good and something we should genuinely be striving to emulate.
>>97962782Wait, the Union AREN'T the bad guys? I gave the setting a read in the rulebook as a friend may run it and I thought they were the obvious villains
>>97962852Nyet comrade, in fact they're so much the good guys™ that the authors made it canon that any successful attempt to overcome them or fuck them over is actually non-canon and being ran on an in-setting computer simulating what, in theory, might have happened before immediately resolving the issue with perfect precision.I'm not even fucking joking, they're that precious about their author insert faction.
The Union is just the Star Trek United Federation of Planets in its early stages. Main difference is that in Lancer they bothered to divide it in different stages called committees. First committee laid the foundations, second committee carried mass expansion with a military iron fist, and the third committee is trying to dial it back by switching tactics to a more diplomatic approach.Personally, I've run Union in my games like the interstellar hotpot it's supposed to be. There's no doubt in my mind that anyone coming from the core worlds has a practically spoiled point of view about resolving conflict. Only those officials in the border regions realize that blood is all too often needed to grease the gears of peace. Union is too big for everyone in it to be a same-minded automaton, and ideological conflict within a faction is always fun.
Considering the fact that the core rulebook says how the Union is already struggling to function as a peacekeeper between two major factions in a flashpoint, the Dawnline Shore, not to mention the fact the Aun have destroyed a blink gate I'd say that they are far from invincible. I've made them even more naive in my games by going with the logic that the third committee probably did away with a lot of its former military might and now relies on keeping the peace on more foreign regions through approved mercenary companies and local defence forces.As if expansions books like The Long Rim haven't made it clear enough, there's also a general resistance about joining Union from many worlds. If it isn't because of their past overzealous expansion it'd be because you'll need to adhere to the Utopian Pillars. Material needs met, no walls between worlds, no bondage through force, labour, or debt. It'd give a conniption to anyone that values hard currency, has had a century-long feud with a neighbouring world, or just has a culture where prisons exists. Again, it's bloody Star Trek.The main benefit that Union can provide is a technological base that can see a path forward to universal post-scarcity as well as such a universe-expanding width that it's the equivalent of locking horns with NATO once you are part of it. It's something that everyone would, on paper, want, so it's up to the GM to make interesting situations out of it.
For anyone in this thread that does want a more Star Trek-esq experience without the political schizophrenia?Check out Mindjammer.
>>97963050And touch that inbred version of the Fate system? Just suggest Traveller.
>>97963059That's the good thing.There's a Mindjammer conversion book for Traveller.
>>97958780Harrison Armory is a red herring. Reminder that one of the major corporations in the setting is SSC, a Corp that only makes mechs on the side because their true passion is LITERAL EUGENICS and gene-editing designer-babies and clone slaves for Space Nobles and CEOs.Union is aware of this and let's it happen, by the way. Lancer-fags will still unironically defend Union as a morally righteous and ideal government.
>>97963165>Post-scarcity civilization where money does not exist>SSC exists>90% of the lore for SSC is how they only make bespoke super-customized artisan goods for rich clients>RICH CLIENTS>...in a post-scarcity civilization where money doesn't existFucking what?
>>97963242The best part is that "artisan goods" means nothing in this retarded setting because you can and produce everything by plugging digital blueprint files into matter printers. This includes SSC's products. You're basically paying money to get them to remove the DRM from your glorified .pdf download. I am not joking. The setting is actually THAT retarded.
>>97963242It sits in that weird middle ground where post-scarcity is more like "post-basic needs". You have the right to have your basics covered. Core worlds give everyone a "standardized periodic requisition capacity from local printers" that probably covers most luxury requirements.I guess that if you are from one of those places and run some sort of business that deals with outsiders you could get your hands on enough intergalactic dough to pay SSC what they want. Or gain enough favours or somesuch.
>>97963242You can have wealth without having money anon. Intellectual property is still very much a thing as is owning entire planets.
>>97963259>>97963242>>97963311You can 100% have wealth in a post-scarcity society AND have value for artisan/handmade craft. Star Trek has several episodes right about that because, as you said, you get a digital blueprient, so you'll always get that EXACT version of what you want, if you want improvements, modifications, specific designs, etc you'd have to do it yourself or get someone else to do it unless you have some advanced AI to do and some people just enjoy things handcrafted anyways. In the same Star Trek show, there's still vineyards, classic restaurants because people just want the "genuine" experience anyways.And the DRM argument isn't necessarily dumb at all. Star Sector, a really fun and interesting sci-fi game, has part of its lore in which older companies that used to make the parts for spaceships and such, locked all their tech behind really strong DRM and tons of missions are about cracking these DRMs or selling tech you found to people that can crack it. It's such a hassle that people fucking despise DRM in-universe because it prevents them from even maintaining the tech they have access to properly most of the time.
>>97960673Bad faith namecalling aside, this had me until they got to the weapons. I've seen other versions of this format and they're funny when they go out of their way to be absurd and shitposty, these are just weapon descriptions. It feels like the guy had a really strong intro blurb but kind of lost interest midway through
>>97962974>>97963040>spends half an essay to cope and justify why the fascist police state that permits slavery but crushes and kills the culture of any independent state is ACKshully duh good guys! The goyim have truly gone insane
>>97966408Useful idiots like him have perfected the art of using tons of words to say nothing, so that other useful idiots think they're smart.
>>97962974The UFP of the 22nd Century still reeling off the Romulan War would still probably think the Union is a nightmarish dystopia manhandled by corporations and using violence to bend everyone to their will. Even throughout their worst growing pains the Federation never forces people to be a part of it.
>>97966408Practically every form of government is trading some degree of freedom for safety, either from outside actors or plain misfortune.The book doesn't hide the fact that Union isn't universally accepted. They are certainly hypocrites in more than a few aspects. Whether they end up managing to actually become an utopia or just trip and die isn't answered. That's for you to figure out in your game.>>97966461Agreed that they would think it's a dystopia that needs some major retooling. Disagree that the Federation has never had growing pains that were just as bad. The abandonment of colonists in the demilitarised zone just to appease Cardassia sure looks like a distant power imposing their will through violence. Sisko rendered a planet inhabitable to humans when capturing Eddington.
Never cared about Lancer but if /tg/ hates it this much it must be one of the best TTRPGs ever made, because the universal law is the more 4chan hates something the better it is, and the more 4chan loves something, the worse it is.
>>97966526The Maquis immediately turned to terrorism and it took a very long time and a lot of external factors for Sisko to push it as far as he did. If the Union had been in charge of that, the Maquis would have been forcibly deported and anyone who resisted likely killed.
>>97966461The fact they're comparing it to Quarks "Root Beer Ideology" speech is wild.It's not subtle, it's not cloying, it's not insidious, it's waterboarding ideology where they hold your head under until you either comply or drown.>>97966536Have fun paying for a dogshit game, by the way, go buy a copy of FATAL as well while you're at it since no one here likes that either, retard-kun.
>>97966536Lancer isn't a TTRPG, it's political propaganda with some dice rolls stapled on.
>>97966536It mechanically shares a lot of DNA with D&D 4th Edition. Whether that is a pro or con really is in the eye of the beholder.
>>97966526>some degree of freedom>has a LITERAL slave trade and gene-edited tardslaves Brave New World style>SOME degree of freedom Goycattle in abundance
>>97966536>/tg/'s opinions and tastes are shit!!!!Then why are you here?Oh right, it's because your opinions and tastes are shit
>>97966536>Never cared about LancerYeah you do. You play it all the time with your OC femdom commiemommy faction.
>>97966544>It's not subtle, it's not cloying, it's not insidious, it's waterboarding ideology where they hold your head under until you either comply or drown.settle down, beavis
>>97966590He’s not wrong about the Union and their join or die mentality
>>97966590>"I'm too pretending to be too stupid to understand metaphors, therefore you're stupid."Thanks for sharing with the class, reteurn to your commercial sized barrel o' paste and leave the rest of us to have a discussion.
>>97966536It's a clone of D&D 4e, so its a middling game. Not good, not bad. /tg/ hates it because it reads like an insane person's political manifesto, not because of it's merits as a game.Also it's fanbase is as insane and politics-obsessed as the author.
>>97966603>Thanks for sharing with the class, reteurn to your commercial sized barrel o' paste and leave the rest of us to have a discussion.lol this mf said reteurn
Lancer? More like gay tranny LOL!
>>97966541It did take a lot, but it was still seen as a practically excessive response by everyone under his command by how they hesitated to carry out his actions, even if they got results. It's on par with one of the more extreme actions of the union of a total biome kill.Should also clarify that there is a distinction between the current Union under the third committee and the second. Second would absolutely do everything you said regarding the Maquis. Thirdcomm tries to go against all of those more extreme methods. It's repeated again and again through all of the book, and I cannot recall any mention of anyone that was forced to join at gunpoint.
>>97966634Sisko’s actions, regardless of how extreme the rest of the DS9 crew found them, were extremely tolerant and saved lives. Eddington had poisoned two planets and announced plans to continue to do so within the DMZ. Once you escalate to biological warfare, you’re inviting your opponents to do the same. If Sisko hadn’t poisoned that planet with Eddington there to prove he was actually willing to do it, the Maquis likely wouldn’t have stopped. His actions ultimately saved lives and prevented that from spiraling into a genocidal war of annihilation. Thirdcomm on the other hand is just the second with better PR. It’s fundamentally the same people with the same problems just trying to appear less overtly authoritarian now that they’re the big kids on the block and able to negotiate from a position of strength. They haven’t even attempted to address the real problems of SecComm, they just choose to hide it behind Mercenaries.
I think the main issue I take with any comparison between the Federation and the Union is the Federation always feels like it is trying to practice what they preach. Any episode that’s about Federation hypocrasy typically ends with the characters accepting accountability and trying to be better. The Prime Directive is something that comes from good intentions and can be bent if it truly is hamstrung by its own highmindedness.Lancer sidebars about the Union always feels like people making excuses for it with the mentality of its the best we have and this is ultimately for the good of humanity instead of resolving to actually improve things. It comes across like a savior mentality that ultimately isn’t that good for the people being saved.If the Union was in an episode of Star Trek, they would probably be painted as the antagonists.
I don't really know why LANCER gets considered communist, really. Its fairly lib; there's a tolerance for class disparity and capitalism that would piss off a good chunk of the sci-fi writers of the USSR. The game in general doesn't do a good job of actually pointing you at who exactly you'll be shooting at with your mechs, so it feels like such a waste that they're not a set of enemy factions. Its like if Keith Baker spent the majority of the Eberron book talking about how elections in Breland work and the various tactics used by its infantry and cavalry units, and then in a little off-hand note said, "Oh and I guess there's some guys trying to free evil demons? Anyway, back to how aerial cavalry works."
>>97966544FATAL is hated by everyone, not just the contrarians on 4chan though. Only 4chan hates Lancer, and they hate it for the dumbest of nogames reasons. But /tg/ likes steaming hot dogshit like GURPS, HERO, OSR/TSR, and SOTDL so my overall theory holds true.>>97966571Because I remember when that wasn't the case.>>97966577I know literally nothing about the system or setting. I don't like mecha as a genre.>>97966618So they don't hate it for any reason that matters, got it. Also, 4e is trash.
>>97966837*meant to say the corporations are who you should be shooting at.
>>97966837Because of the author's political views. /tg/ is just too retarded and can't comprehend writing their own setting because they're a bunch of nogames faggots.
>>97956147didn't know that James Stokoe did art for Lancer
>>97966837This sort of boils down to the writers, mainly Tom Bloom, outright saying Lancer is supposed to be an anti-capitalist work and utopian work. The megacorporations are supposed to be evil and disliked.Why then the setting of Lancer invests so much power into them and makes them a background detail you cooperate with instead of an outright antagonist is probably the most confusing aspect of Lancer. You are sort of expected to buy doing a corporate intervention in Space South America is a good thing because the petty nations in the Orions Arm are all ruled by evil despots and dictators.
>>97966634The defiant crew all looked at him funny because his play was really good for Cardassia and because cardassia wasn’t forcing him, it wasn’t ‘extreme’, it kept the peace with 0 casualties (but gave ground permanently to cardassia).Large-scale species-specific poisonings have to fuck things up for the rest of the biome at least a little but that’s something for a future episode to explore.Anyway, it’s not hard to be less utopian than the Federation in Star Trek, lmao
>>97966879You can’t really write your own setting for Lancer. The setting is intentionally baked into the core gameplay for Lancer. Removing it makes you wonder why you were playing Lancer in the first place.
>>97966874If you hate 4e and SotDL why on Earth would you ever want to play Lancer? Both of those games are the primary mechanical inspiration behind it.
>>97966874>I'm a TRVE OLDFRIEND (fag is disrespectful okies???) and totally not a discord groomer touristSure okay
>>97966879Why would I play a shit game with a shittier setting when there's much better mecha RPGs out there with both better settings and more freedom to rewrite if you're into that?
>>97966874>I don't like mecha as a genre.Then lancer is probably perfect for you, since it also despises mecha.
>>97966874>the contrarians on 4chanYou know that by coming here just to take the opposite opinions of this place makes you an even faggier contrarian than anything you can toss at 4chan, right?
LANCER, despite declaring itself explicitly as an anti-capitalist game, does a far worse job than Cyberpunk does of being anti-capitalist, and Cyberpunk isn’t even trying to declare a political position.
>>97956147I don't blame them. There's a reason I stopped posting on this godawful website more than once every couple of months almost a decade ago. I can't imagine talking about games I actually like with any of you faggots.
>>97966888>This sort of boils down to the writers, mainly Tom Bloom, outright saying Lancer is supposed to be an anti-capitalist work and utopian work.Anti-capitalism isn't de facto communist. Liberal reformism tends to dominate over revolutionary tendencies, and I haven't really seen anything that indicates either of the writers are actually Marxists.
>>97967191/tg/'s so fucking braindead they can't tell the difference between UBI and Stalinism
>>97962709Remember that socialism isn't "litte guy vs. big guy" it's "People vs. Persons". They consider a billionaire psychopath and a retired grandmother renting out her old house to be morally equivalent, and would even side with the billionaire over the grandma because its better to have the big tiger than the little tiger.
>>97967209please stop getting your ideas of what political ideologies believe from twitter fights between people with less than 200 followers.
>>97967191They aren’t marxists. They’re limp-wristed social democrats who believe revolution begins at the ballot box. That’s why they need to signpost about how anti-capitalist and hopeful their dystopian setting is despite it being Night City on a galactic scale and powered by “Non-Human Persons” aka enslaved eldritch beings that will slaughter humanity if they actually get loose.
>>97967222>please stop getting your ideas of what political ideologies believe from twitter fights between people with less than 200 followersWhy not? They're as legit a voter as you or anyone else.
I'm going to post my gay little opinions and I don't care if you guys think they're petty, because they're mine and born of my own emotions and experiences. The biggest and most pressing issue I have with LANCER isn't necessarily the gay liberal setting, it's that the fanbase are utterly drenched in the bella ciao nonsense as well. It's one thing to roll your eyes and flip the page in the CRB, it's another feeling like an out-of-place freak surrounded by people experiencing gender euphoria describing how Mecha is a "transbian" genre or LANCER is, "so insanely gay." I'm straight, I'm white, I'm a man. Nonstop, everyday utterances about how every fuckin' mecha meme is about lesbians or trans people makes me realize, what the fuck am I doing here? This isn't my rodeo, this isn't my circus and these *are not* my monkeys. I shouldn't be here.
>>97967355No, man, I know what you mean. Listen, I'll shitpost about Lancer but at the end of the day I really don't give a shit. I just like big robots and going on a three-hour discussion about CCA because I reread one line again and changed my mind again. If trannies or faggots find some fun in mecha, fucking good for them. But man, does it feel like the only thing they can say about mecha is that piloting a robot is a trans allegory or something or repeating the romantic undertones to Amuro and Char's dynamic and focusing on it and nothing else. They feel reductionist, like they're refusing to engage with any of mecha beyond what fits them being trans or them being gay.
>>97957007And I will again ask for proof, because you've never provided any.
>>97967388God, thank you for sharing in my frustrations. If I have to hear one more "mechsploitation" speil I'm going to scream. I love my gay Discord friends but I'm thoroughly turned off from trying LANCER again after seeing how thoroughly they've "claimed" the genre.
>>97959400This meme actually hits on a really good point. I've played a bit of Lancer and while the combat mechanics are mediocre and the mech concepts / art is pretty cool, the game feels extremely hollow and empty. Absolutely devoid of pathos. Lancer is a game about something visually cool reduced to wordswordswords and some tabletop mech combat and it has absolutely nothing else. The game NEEDS gay furry roleplay and cringy teen corporationsBAD political messaging slopped on like ketchup because it would be completely empty otherwise. And you know what? It is still the most shallow boring TTRPG of the dozen or so systems I've played. It demands you use its lore unless you want to completely contradict the existing lore at every turn. It demands all the characters be gay because the LGBTQIAPPP+++ community can derive entertainment from constantly reaffirming how gay they are. It literally is just a gay supremacist circlejerk, where they convince themselves that just because Turing was into having sex with teenage boys, that all gays and trans are supergenius hackers. It's really funny because the game is literally just some pretty art, it doesn't say anything except to be unintentional satire of itself. It's like the Starship Troopers movie in reverse. I have yet to see a Lancer game last past a few sessions, mostly because the people who play it are lazy communists with no work ethic who can't do the work to keep a serious campaign going, and constantly cancel sessions because "muh depression is too much today guize ;_; " I would feel bad for them, except for the fact that they hate you, want you dead, and want your kids mutilated, and they fantasize about doing that to you with giant robots to commit absolute death against anyone who doesn't agree with giving them free money to cut their penises off.
>>97960673A meme like this could be funny if it wasn't just "ZOMG LOOK HOW AWESOME AND POWERFUL I AM HAHAHAHA" in the most straightforward tryhard prose imaginable. It reminds me of the Dungeon World class descriptions, and how the creator of that game turned out to be some weird-ass sex pest who used his pink hair to appear nonthreatening to women so he could sexually harass them. Then got cancelled. And we told /tg/ 10 years ago these people were freaks who would ruin the hobby, and they went full ostrich mode and yelled at us that nothing was happening.
>>97966536>if /tg/ hates it this much it must be one of the best TTRPGs ever made, because the universal law is the more 4chan hates something the better it is, and the more 4chan loves something, the worse it is.By that logic, FATAL is the greatest game ever. Please kill yourself you retarded fuckwit.Your "law" is grounded in the same dogshit "logic" as Godwin's "Law" and you deserve to be shot and killed for uttering it.
>>97967447I'm not going to talk about the rest of your post because I don't want to fall into the same sort of affirmation circle-jerk, but are there any BattleTech TTRPGs worth a damn? The people I play with always insist LANCER is the "go to" system, but they talk about BattleTech with such passion that I think they play LANCER out of pure cope.
>>97967355I read this psychology thing once that talked about how NPD (narcissistic personally disorder) types really like robots because the idea of being a monolithic machine immune to human emotions that's super perfect is appealing to the point of euphoria. This lines up almost perfectly with autogynephilia's roots in NPD. They don't like giant robots, they want to be the giant robot.I theorize that gundam is heavily responsible for this intersection of sexual deviancy, but I'm bias because I hate gundam and can't bring up votoms without getting 'GUNDAM GUNDAM WHAT ABOUT GUNDAM GOATGOAT' as a response.
>>97967504A Time of War is extremely simulationist and crunchy with all the hallmarks you’d expect of 80’s game design and still requires Battletech for handling the mech combat. Most people are probably going to be immediately turned off by it.The other one is called Mechwarrior: Destiny. I’ve personally never played it but it supposedly goes for a far more narrative approach and is far more freeform. It’s supposed to have a narrative combat system for the mechs with optional rules for converting characters to run combat in both Battletech and Alpha Strike.
>>97967516Sounds like Destiny is the only one I'd be able to run, I'm the designated GM for my friends and while I'm comfortable learning new systems, learning something as simulationist as BattleTech is way too much. Cheers.
>>97967504>but they talk about BattleTech with such passion that I think they play LANCER out of pure cope.huh?They hate Battletech?I've heard it's okay. There are probably other decent Mech RPGs too.
>>97967504Play traveller but play actual battletech for mech combat scenarios, add in mechwarrior perks to taste for flavor
>>97967533>They hate Battletech?No, they adore BattleTech. They live and breathe BattleTech. I'm saying they tolerate LANCER because it's the only game that seemingly scratches the big robot itch.
>>97967355This is something they do to whatever hobby or community or genre they infest, and their reasoning for why it is self-evidently true always amounts to>I'm a big obnoxious piece of shit who has posted up here and refuses to leave, so therefore this thing is exclusively for me, about me, and meant to spread my beliefs, and if you disagree, you are wrong and dumb.And when asked to substantiate this shit with actual examples, they inevitably end up citing some faggy meme they saw on tumblr or bluesky, because of course they don't actually engage with the genre they claim to love, or they cite the work of some other faggot who is likewise completely ignorant of the genre and has likewise reimagined it as a narcissistic self-fulfillment fantasy.
>>97967559Have they tried playing Battletech?
>>97967612They do, my question was concerning a TTRPG of BattleTech, not BattleTech itself.
>>97957007Not a single user discussing Enclave is being banned. I'm guessing the guy was actually trying to dogwhistle (poorly)
>>97966897lol, buddy, lancer has you build your mech from unhackable vehicle replicators with a JRPG license system that lets you advance to unlock better parts, it is very easy to drop the setting or (as a 4rry would put it) refluff things. Because it isn’t a game about a setting, it’s more of a setting about a game, so it’s just weird for it to be such a bad fit in some ways (and it also has a lot of good which makes it weirder).
>>97967654Not that anon but you're a massive fucking faggot. Firstly for being in that discord, and secondly for ever thinking that "dogwhistling" is a thing worth reacting to or labeling, or is a valid reason to dismiss one. It's a literal retarded ad hominem attack. Btw I'm gonna flood that discord with tranny gore tomorrow. I have like 9 accounts too so I'll be able to do it repeatedly.
>>97967462/tg/ actually loves FATAL, about 75% of all threads in the board are secretly about it.Locallord? FATAL.-4 str? FATAL.what is X in your srtting? FATAL.why is evil thing not good? FATAL.
>>97967355>the biggest most pressing issue with disease isn't the cause, but the symptoms!Lancer attracted the audience it did because of the setting and anti-mecha nature of it, dummy
>>97967447>the game is literally just some pretty artI honestly hate Abbledabble's "style" and think he's a terrible mecha artist to boot.
>>97956147>>97966628Oh hey Silly Little Guy. You always come out when a lefty is losing an argument and needs to save face. Nice to see you again.
>>97967724Jrpg classes have more customization than Lancer mechs
>>97963379>You can 100% have wealth in a post-scarcity society and have value for artisan/handmade craft look see this other retarded and nonsensical communist scifi universe that does ityou people really do live in a bubble separated from reality
>>97962037You seem to be working under the assumption that Union are the good guys.Despite the authors explicitly stating they are not.ThirdComm is not some perfect government. It's better than the fascistic SecComm but it's still bad. It's still an imperialist power going "see guys we have UBI and universal healthcare so everything is fine now. We're still at war with Aun over the idea that we have a right to rule all humanity, we allow multiple oppressive enclaves to continue to exist because we need their resources, and we can't ungenocide the only other sentient life in the galaxy so we just hide that we did it. BUT EVERYTHING IS BETTER NOW."
>>97968340>Despite the authors explicitly stating they are not.The Union are not intended to be villainous. They are explicitly intended to be well-meaning.https://www.dicebreaker.com/games/lancer/interview/lancer-rpg-interview-future-roleplaying
>>97968340Hey there buddy. A lot of people on this board say that lefties are lying snakes who will never, ever admit they're wrong.Now that you have been proven completely and utterly incorrect>>97968365Will you be apologizing like a man? You were awfully snide and smug. Apologizing and admitting you were wrong would be the right thing to do.
>>97968265Fair. I like it just cause it's more "organic" and "quirky" than most mech art. But totally legitimate to hate it. I think the mech concepts would still have been cool without it but not as good. Without either, the game has nothing.
>>97968365Well-meaning people are flawed. All organizations are flawed, and well-meaning organizations are often flawed in ways that can be exploited by malicious actors. SecComm remnants still have hold of at least one of the levers of power within Union. The KTB Field Guide explicitly states that the Ungratefuls, actually the closest thing to an unambiguously heroic faction in Lancer, consider Union, even the Third Committee, to be ineffectual soft-power colonialists who would rather spend a thousand years trying to legislate the evil out of literal slavers than just give guns to the people trying to overthrow said slavers, because enslaved people are too poor to lobby government.The authors have said in fairly explicit terms that ThirdComm Union is not the final form of government in the Orion Arm. They're not perfect, just well-meaning.
>>97968405I’m not going to disagree as I believe the Union is a dystopian nightmare but the authors have repeatedly stated they are intended to be optimistic and heroic good guys and trying to spin that around to the authors secretly intending for you to read them as deeply flawed villains is pure lunacy. They are not shy in sharing their opinions and never have been.
>>97968365If only there was some kind of famous phrase about roads to hell being lined with something.Ah well. No one has ever heard of such a phrase. Good intentions always lead to good outcomes, Anon. No one has ever done something awful while trying to do the right thing.And now to continue to justifiably snide and smug.>>97968390I'm sorry that you're a stupid dipshit that can't comprehend the concept of "people with good intentions are capable of awful, terrible things."But like, I'm apologizing in the "I'm sorry that happened to you kind of way." The polite kind of apology.Because it's not my fault that you're stupid, it's yours.
>>97968429Wow! So Massif Press failed in their own basic and simple plan to make a science fiction setting that was inherently optimistic and intentionally handed the Union the corrupt colonialist idiot ball? Brilliant! Such a great and subversive story! I am so glad we have another game all about how inherently evil and shitty humanity is to each other!
Kinda shocked to see so many people on /tg/ who are ideological. Ideology kills creativity and fun. But I guess that's a sign of the times. Imagine voluntarily giving up your own individuality in service of some ideological goals, how pathetic
>>97960673I can't even begin to comprehend how retarded and/or gay you'd have to be to find this remotely "funny".
>>97969019Cord would hecking obliterate you for being such austrian painter.
>>97956147it tried, we even had a general for a while, but there is a small, dedicated core of political shitposters who just turn every thread into a 300 post screed so its rarely worth the effort.
>>97968409> the Union is a dystopian nightmarewhy do you think this?
>>97968115>Posts a story that is CLEARLY omitting key details.>Gets shown evidence that contradicted the presented narrative>JUST SO YOU KNOW I'M A DIFFERENT GUY BUT I'M INCREDIBLY MAD THAT YOU POINTED OUT THAT THE OTHER GUY WHO ISN'T ME IS FULL OF SHIT! I'M ABOUT TO DO SOME INTERNET TOUGHGUY STUFF IN RETALIATION!Also, noticed a lack of follow through here anon. Where's that tranny gore? I'm flipping through the discord now and I don't see it. Don't tell me that you pussied out after you talked such a big game.
>>97957007So I got banned from a Lancer discord once (not sure which one) but I can’t blame them.I would genuinely think I was a racist too.>off topic thread about favorite energy drink >im boomer tier white monster enjoyer>for some retard reason I couldn’t remember the words “energy drink “>(probably brain with holes from compulsive every drink enjoying)>think of alternative word for energy drink >”yeah i like those white power monsters Banned. I… get it. I was genuinely just retardant
>>97970368>I was genuinely just retardantMan, didn't they even ask what you meant?What, do they think you're talking about wight supremacy or something?
>>97970388You don’t need to ask for context. You just have to be a reactionary retard like >>97967654 who believes in “dog whistling” and can use any perceived presence of it as justification for a witch hunt. If you successfully report someone on Discord or Reddit and they get banned, your secret pool of social credit points will increase.
>>97968409>deeply flawed villains>villainsNo one fucking said that, you massive retard. What they meant is that no one here is getting Omelas'd. If you meet a Union administrator on your travels, they are probably not evil. If a Union Auxiliary detachment is providing security for a peacekeeping mission, they're probably not going to start shooting just to aggravate the locals and manufacture consent for a genocide. If Union DoJ/HR offers your crew support for something they're doing, it's probably not so they can sweep in and grab power immediately in the aftermath.Union has secrets, and they have demons. GALSIM is buried under so many layers of bureaucracy, most of the people who vote on how many resources to devote to it don't have the clearance to know it exists. Union Intelligence Bureau don't know that they take their activation orders from a magic computer that doesn't have the ability to explain itself and that once almost destroyed the entire universe. Second Committee remnants do actually hold power within Union, and no one is doing anything about it. The KTB and the Corprostates do also hold power within Union, and it makes everything objectively worse. But no one's lying about it. As shady as GALSIM and UIB are, they believe that they have the best odds of creating a favorable outcome for human civilization as a whole, and UIB is actively funding and arming resistance groups in the Dawnline Shore fighting against both the KTB and Harrison Armory. Seccomm still holds some power within Union because going door to door through every core world and killing or jailing everyone who doesn't denounce anthrochauvanism is fucking psychotic. Republicanism is an active political ideology in the KTB, and more than one of the major Houses has been turned away from slavery and feudalism. Even the KTB is slowly getting better.Union aren't villains. They're just not perfect. The Orion Arm is a big fucking place and no one has all the answers.
>>97956147Oh look, yet another attempt to Stealth force a lancer general onto this board. I guess parasitising the mecha Monday thread wasn't fast enough? Or did you get outed?
>>97959817>Ah yes, the famous political themes and "gay stuff" of Gaogaigar, Godannar, Gravion, Dragonar, Orguss...Yes.
