I keep looking at retro and neo clones but keep going back to 2e. And there are only a few reworks of 2e, for gold and Glory and Myth and magic are the ones that come up most. I know there are a few others but can't recall them.I tend to like neoclones more, because if you are gonna recreate an older game, why not improve it?I think Acending AC and reworking kits to something more like PF1e archetypes are a way to go.What you you rework or change if anything to make a 2e neoclone?
>>97975974WotC's D&D 3.0 is a direct update to 2e. It's something like 90% compatible even. The 3.5 update removed backwards compability.
>>97975974I wouldn't. AD&D, and AD&D 2e, are honestly perfect. >but muh class restrictions!Look at current 5e parties and their multiclass minmax abominations and tell me with a straight face that it's preferrable. Good classes should be a reward for players with good stats, multiclassing should be something to base a campaign around. >but muh THAC0!The taco is spicy, but can be alleviated by giving all of your players the chart in the GM manual. It's dead simple. >But muh xp!Gold as xp is the superior way to play. Leveling by farming monster xp leads to unfun nonsense, leveling by "milestones" leads to players begging. Gold as xp encourages players to be loot goblins, which makes treasure hunting and shopping sessions exciting. If I was forced at gunpoint to change things, I'd probably add cantrips to give magic-users some form of magic they can do for minor combat moves instead of lobbing darts.
>>97976130>AD&D 2e, are honestly perfect.>>But muh xp!>Gold as xp is the superior way to play.foegyg, nigger hasn't actually read ad&d2e and blindly glazes it
>>97976054No its not
>>97975974Anything I'd make using 2e as a base wouldn't be recognized as a neoclone; I'd end up having to change so much.But if it makes you feel better, it's the same case with any other edition, not just 2e, so it isn't like it's a vendetta against OSR specifically.
The only edition of D&D I don't own despite being my most interested in. Wish the books weren't absurdly expensive and WotC would do a solid FOR ONCE IN THEIR LIFE, and put (good scanned) print on demand copies of everything into DrivethruRPG. Just seems like them passing up free money to me.
>>97976054This is just a flat out lie. It's not compatible at all as it an entirely new system
>>979759743rd edition had the right idea on most things.Reworking the formula to ascending AC is just better. Reworking non weapon proficiencies to skills was a good idea but badly executed.Turning thief skills into regular skills was also a straight up improvement.As well as adjusting percentages for said thief skills because they make no sense honestly. Opening locks is the easiest shit ever. Especially basic bitch medieval locks that are basically a latch. On the other hand climbing sheer surfaces is almost impossible unless you are a super skilled climber and yet the rules have conflicting percentages for these skills, etc.Fix the whole over 18 thing with the stats. I know 3rd edition went full unhinged with them but it is honestly better than what 2e did with extraordinary stats. A healthy medium would be perfect. ALso for the love of god put back encounter, rumor and morale tables into the game even if some wont use them.
>>97976130Thaco is fine, I would kill class and race restrictions though
>>979763593e had a lot of good ideas but flawed execution. I also liked 3e style saves
>>97976340>2e>osr
>>97976377it really did try to modernise adnd and fix some of the clunkiest parts. ANd conceptually it succeeded. The only problem is the execution which is most usually a problem of the maths involved.They are really the most broken thing of the entire edition, besides the terminally bad and jargon filled wording of things which put rules lawyering on the dnd map
>>97975974Ascending ac and 3rd edition style saves would do it.
>>97976441Go back to your containment thread.
>>97976563I need to look at Myth &Magic again. We never got the DMG but it did do both those things. I think it tried to go a bit too 3e with so many tests or whatever they called em though
>>97976574Just flag and ignore him
Make crits till death at 0HP the default.Make NWPs the default rather than optional.Remove Expertise, gate Mastery behind studying under someone who has it or otherwise make it a big hard-to-get reward for Fighters and only Fighters.Tie dual classing requirement to roleplay incentive rather than stats (keep class attribute requirements, those are great).Remove generalist priest, every setting only has the different, distinct priest loadouts corresponding to the specific deities.Make spellbook tracking while rolling for pagecounts mandatory for arcane casters.DMG should insist in all caps that Reaction Check and Travel events are core mechanics of the system and you have to make sure to use them.DMG should insist in all caps on the class-specific experience rewards section.You know, the stuff any sensible 2e player does.This is a bit radical, but switch priest and rogue THAC0 progression while you're at it.
>>979759742e is literal dog shit so I wouldn't try to improve it at all I would just play a different game
>>97976574He's correct. It's not good and it's not osr
>>97976717I don't agree with this, but thanks for the input. Some are interesting ideas
>>97975974By playing AD&D 1E instead.
>>97976828Why play a worse game? Just no
Fuse it with 3eIt is genuinely retarded that a guy with 15 strength hits as hard as a guy with 7 strength but daddy gygax that everyone here loves to suck the nuts of says this is realistic~
>>97976852It was tried at lest twice, myth and magic and castles and Crusades. But it's honestly not a bad way to go
>>97976787You're wrong.It is good and it is also OSR.
How would you treat kits? A separate thing or integrated into the class itself?
>>97978414I would treat them how OSR treats them. Only natural, if one is to make a true retroclone.
>>97976130>Gold as xp is the superior way to play.It's not, and you've outed yourself as a nogames poseur for pretending to care about this shit that only BrOSR culture war fags pretend is so important to RPGs.
>>97978495>the literal nevergamed fishfag SEETHING over people actually playing D&D
>>97976717>Make crits till death at 0HP the default.What does this mean?
>>97976130>Good classes should be a reward for players with good statsThis is the stupidest thing I have seen anyone say on this board.
>>97978450Kits don't exist in OSR games. You're saying they should be removed?
>>97978881Yes they do.I'm using the broad definition of OSR.
>>97978848So everyone should be allowed to be a paladin or a monk, got it
>>97978964Okay reddit
>>97978967Yes, yes they should. And if you want to restrict them based on stats, you need to do it the OPPOSITE way and make the requirement rolling so shitty stats that you don't qualify for any of the normal classes. That way it helps balance bad luck on stats rolls. The way you advocate is idiotic because all it does is further reward people who already got lucky by having higher stats than normal.
>>97978967NTA but yes
People insisting AD&D 1e and AD&D 2e are somehow wildly different from each other is the funniest fucking shit to me.
>>97979014It's mostly stupidity. But I myself like the patches 2e did to the system. So it's the one I am asking about as I think it was an improvement on the system
>>97978964>I'm using the broad definition of OSR.There's no such thing. Please don't pollute this thread with your sperging.
>>97979002>all it does is further reward people who already got lucky by having higher stats than normalThis is appropriate, that's how the real world works. It's also in accordance with the teachings of Jesus Christ: "he who has, to him it shall be given".
>>97979014you know whatI think I get it nowit's the 2+2 = 5 of the whatever cult-like group that is trying to push it>it's not enough that you say 1e and 2e are completely different games>you have to believe it when you say it!>RELEASE THE RATS!
>>97978688Gold as XP was an OPTIONAL rule in 2e, retard. It was something that they quickly dropped and never went back to because it's fucking retarded game design. Crying fishfag to try and start a different argument doesn't protect you from the truth of reality and history.
>>97979465>OPTIONAL rule in 2eyes, and making that not just "optional" but also actively discouraged, was a terrible choice.Not to mention the design choices that came after that as a natural result.
Ah the anti 2e trolls can't stop themselves from coming into 2e related threads. Y'all need to touch grass.
>>97976054>It's something like 90% compatible even.Not true. A character from 2e can be dropped into a campaign where everyone else is playing 1e rules or vice versa and it played successfully and easily. A 3e character uses very different categories for saves, has prestige class, feats, different bonuses from stats, base attack bonuses, different hit point progression, unified skill points, level progression, multiclassing. A 3e character introduced into AD&D would be wildly over or under powered. You can do some intensive work converting a 3e character to AD&D but that's a long way from 90% compatible. Then we'd have to get on to encounters, monsters, equipment, magic items, etc.: Compatibility drops more.
>>97979776He is trolling you, just flag and ignore him
>>97979513Nah. It was removed because it was bad. It didn't even come back into the public eye until a few years back when retards like Jeffro insisted that it was the ideal, "AS GYGAX INTENDED" way to play, despite that retard not being able to keep a single campaign going for more than a couple weeks.
>>97979818>It was removed because it was badYour opinion, and i strongly disagree with it. XP for other stuff is just DM fiat AKA storyshitting
>>97979843...Intrinsic power for extrinsic wealth by nominal GP value is somehow LESS fiat than XP for tasks relevant to the field of competence being progressed?
XP for gold is off topic here as it is unrelated to the topic. take this to the throw down thread
>>97976852>Fuse it with 3e>Then remove all the 2e bitsCongrats, now you have a good game!
>>97979843>storyshittingHobby wouldn't exist without Arenson running a game that, by your own flawed understanding of TTRPGs, would be considered "storyshitting". Learn your history, child.
>>97978414>How would you treat kits?Burn them with fire
>>97980301Why? Kits were a cool idea even if the execution wasn't the best.
>>97979867nta As it was largely about tomb robbing or treasure stealing or otherwise taking by force or guile that which did not belong to you making progression based on monetary value was reasonable. The goal was to pillage so the characters advanced for pillaging. There's nothing wrong with advancement being tied to field of competence too but as the early game had particular emphasis on taking stuff progressing in proportion to the stuff taken makes a lot of sense too. It tied the mechanics to the theme of the game and that makes it far less pejoratively "fiat"/arbitrary than you're making out.The emphasis on getting treasure was initially much higher in 1e and the various flavours of Basic and lower in 2e. Unfortunately, well before Hickman and his (possibly her since at least the story part of it came from Laura, possibly their if they shared its creation) oh so evil game wrecking "manifesto" arrived on the scene, Basic and 1e had already by 1980 increased their emphasis on something other than pillaging. The people to blame for this are Dave Cook and, more specifically, Harold Johnson and Tom Moldvay--and Gary Gygax. The creator and chief developers and designers realised the limitations in D&D's concept and expanded the goals of (A)D&D. You can even see the de-emphasis in xp for treasure change reflected in the AD&D monster books. MM from 1977 doesn't include xp in the stat block; FF and MMII from '79 and '83 do.
>>979762692e does offer Gold as XP. It discourages it, it spends more time talking about Race/Class RP, adventure completion, survival, killing monsters. But it does offer Gold as XP. 1XP per GP.
>>97976441Traveller too.
>>97980332I don't think I'd burn them but I think they were very poorly executed. A lot of them were only space fillers to pad out page count. They were mostly cultural role play notes, a few required or excluded skills or proficiencies including weapon and non-weapon, restrictions on starting gear and money, and a handful of benefits/hindrances that the authors were too scared to do anything substantial with in case they broke the game.>AmazonCultural notes, etc as above.+3 to hit/damage on her first attack to anyone who's never met an amazon so long as level less than 8 (or 5 if target is a warrior), -3 reaction from most NPCs since she's a woman warrior>BarbarianAs above. A very watered down barbarian from 1eReaction roll of 8 or better is improved by 3, roll of 14 or worse worsened by 3Especially useless as they brought out a Barbarian's Handbook>BeastriderAt least this one does something a little different by giving a warrior what is sort of like a wizard's familiar with empathic or even limited telepathic communication. -3 reaction roll adjustment.>BeserkerA different watered down 1e barbarian with beserking ability. -3 reaction adjustment.>Cavalierwatered down 1e character class, but pretty overpowered for AD&D>GladiatorGet a free weapon specialization. Penalty is "being famous" which the rules say is strictly role play.Etc. all from Fighter's HandbookSome later published kits might have been better when they got the confidence to go well outside the rules of the class or the group>Beastmaster RangerRecruits animals as henchmen with telepathic bondbut the majority of kits were very average.
>>97980747No disagreement many were poorly done. The concept behind them is great, but the idea just wasn't there yet. I think that idea lead to better executions later on.
>>97979968Son, I've been gaming since y'all was a twinkle in your daddy's balls
>>97979002It is obvious that you have little understanding of pre-3e D&D. High stats are not the advantage they are in 3.X or onwards. A Fighter, Magic-User, Cleric or Thief with 10s across the board is fully effective. The benefits of high stats was more from accessing "better" races and classes which often came with restrictions and penalties. A Paladin might be a Fighter+ but it also leveled significantly slower.
>>97980815And you're still this retarded? That's fucking pathetic. Did you even read your DMG in the last 50 years, or do you just pretend to know what you're talking about because you're old and you've got boomer brain?
>>97979787>flag
>>97978988Okay fishfag
>>97979252Yes there is.It's the larger consensus that categorizes OSR across all its valid editions, instead of just the ones a scant few think are valid.
>>97976840Because it's better lol.
>>97981234>It's the schizo fantasy that exists only in my own headOkay.
>>97980489Traveller should be made an honorary OSR game for 2 reasons;First there's not enough people interested in it to have its own consistent general.Second it's supremely based and might actually be more OSR than actual OSR games.No character advancement outside of gear (Meaning your gold is how you advance, no XP involved); purely focused on an open world setting; you're not heroes, you're just having a midlife crisis; lethal but in a way that's dripping with meaning; pure combat as war gameplay; resource management is key (Gotta keep her flying somehow)There isn't really a decent sci-fi OSR game out there, but Traveller seems to fit the niche like a glove.It's like a reverse of the 2e situation, a game by a different company where the design philosophy leads to the same conclusions, rather than a game by the same company that got rid of everything that pushes a game towards OSR style play.
>>97981726No, it's worse. But you are free to play it but it's off topic here
>>97981856Traveller is part of the larger OSR umbrella but also not the topic
>>97981856>Traveller should be made an honorary OSR game for 2 reasonsThat's not how it works, there's nobody screening nominations and adding to the roster. It's just not an OSR game because it's not early D&D or a clone of early D&D.>First there's not enough people interested in it to have its own consistent generalAnd this is the worst possible reason to push anything onto an unrelated general.
>>97982758Eh, don't worry. Unlike a certain autist I'm not going to try and force it into /osrg/ against the will of the locals just because I, personally, think it's a good stylistic fit because like you said, it's not a mechanical one.I guess there's a term that's needed for games that are naturalistic sandboxes with a focus on character advancement and skills rather than levels and whatever that term is, both OSR and Traveller are in that box, as oppose to the 'Numbers go up, follow the story, punch god in the dick' archetype
>>97981785Fishfag.
>>97982985I am out of the loop, where did the term 'fishfag' come from?
>>97975974>I think Acending ACThat's 50% of what I'd do.>reworking kits to something more like PF1e archetypes are a way to goI don't bother with that. I'm just flexible regarding characters.One thing I like about 5 is the advantage/disadvantage mechanic and I'd use that to scale difficulty based on circumstance.Aside from that, it's good to go.
>>97983382Acending AC and advantage/disadvantage is a good set. Those alone would make a great difference
>>97981093Tell me where storyshitting is mentioned in the DMG, son. I'll wait. >>97979867>prescribed and procdedural awards are less fiat than the DM making things up???uhh, son?
>>97981229fishfag is the one with a broad OSR definition you mong>>97983100someone once posted about how their ACKS players were taking a slow session to interact with a village, fishing while doing so, then later smoked and sold the fish to help the struggling village.Another Anon flipped out at the story, saying it wasnt epic enough for him, and would not stop making himself very obvious. Eventually, after complaining about fish so much, the name "Fishfag" stuck to him.(He will try to lie and spin this around the otherway, but the archive doesnt lie.)
>>97983826>uhh, son?The class-specific XP sources are no less "prescribed and procedural" than DM-distributed loot for DM-distributed encounters modified by DM-rolled dice.
>>97983838your were made fun of because those players thought fishing was more fun than the rest of the game.
>>97983847>class-specific XP sourcesalso>"story goals">"individual awards"which are quite explicitly fiat.
>>97983872Hi ESL.No one cares if you thought it was boring. Players are allowed to take low-risk decompression sesisons if they want.Please dont reply to me again without learning proper english. >>97983100As you can see, he's a pest that can't help but defend himself.
>>97983885imagine taking obvious bait
>>97983838Thank you for the explanation. Now more people know of the tale of the retarded fishfag. What a retarded fishfag.
Huh, that's weird.I thought "off-topic OSR arguments derailed every thread". Looks like you all are having a great time discussing the topic of the thread.Seems like whoever was bitching about derailment is just a dumb cunt.
>>97983838>someone once posted about how their ACKS players were so bored they used the fishing system and had more fun with it than the rest of the system. When this was pointed out to the dm, he sperged out and called that person fishfag.corrected your story revisionist
>>97983100One guy had everyone call his story about fishing boring, and in turn he started calling everyone fishfag. Now, he just sort of throws it about indiscriminately whenever someone says something he doesn't like.>>97983838>were taking a slow sessionSo, there really was no reason for you to have such a blow out over people calling your story boring. But, here you are, still raging at your imaginary "single person who would be the only one to dare call my self-admitted 'slow' session boring."
>>97983973here's a link for those who care https://archive.4plebs.org/tg/thread/96434718/#96583816
>>97983962>RevisionistStory: https://archive.4plebs.org/tg/thread/94415189/#94427591Complete with everyone laughing at you for being a retardFirst time your nickname was used: https://archive.4plebs.org/tg/thread/95551347/#95571998Now call me crazy but I don't think those are the same thread, are they? In fact there's a good few months between them.
I swear you fuckers can't stop trolling. Just won't stop until all OSR talk dies
>>97983986Jesus they were bullying the fuck out of him.
>>97984004you mean laughing at you? the guy who's fishing well everyone else is getting shit done, and having fun killing dragons, kobalds, orcs, etc?
>>97984017Good.
>>97984004Oh I didn't know the origin of the word "fishfag", thanks bro
>>97984004I'm mostly seeing people making fun of you for being so proud of calculating fish storage. Also, a hell of a lot of outraged ALLCAPS indignant samefagging from someone I presume to have been you.
>>97983838holy fuck you're STILL assmad about how dull your game is? LOL
>>97984025>>97984056>I'm mostly seeing people mocking yo-Meanwhile in reality:>Is-is that a game that doesn't cater to me and my bing-bang-wahoo tastes for immediate gratification and spectacle?!>SAVE ME WIZARDS OF THE COAST, HEEEEEEEEEELP
>>97984068Oh man, I was spot on.You post exactly like the guy outrage samefagging.
>>97984068cope harder
>Nuh-uh, you're the one that's mad and fishfag and boring and-Yeah, yeah, keep seething.It's incredible how you've kept this alive for so long just by being salty and retarded.
>>97984068Yes, we know, you were trying really hard to pretend to be other people in the thread to save face. It didn't work.
>>97983914NTA, explain what about that is bait?
>>97984091Yep, you'll keep seething. Your games suck and ACKS is shit btw
>>97984062I don't think it's about the game.Even he admits that it's not a very exciting story.>their ACKS players were taking a slow session to interact with a village, fishing while doing so, then later smoked and sold the fish to help the struggling village.Even his best effort to try and fluff it up still has it as a pretty boring story that even he calls slow.
>>97983962again, "Players are allowed to take low-risk decompression sessions if they want."not every session is a marvel movie, ESL-kun
>>97983973thats not me tho? why would anyone take this so seriously in the first place? that includes you, since you seem so grumpy about a pretty innocuous story.
>>97984062what about that post seems mad?>>97984109>Even he admits that it's not a very exciting story.most fishing stories arent exciting, theyre comfy.What about that is meant to convey excitement?
He's STILL trying LOL
>>97984114>>97984121>>97984124we're not interested in the story. we're just making fun of you for being mad at us calling it boring
>>97984121>you seem so grumpy about a pretty innocuous story.lol. "Grumpy" is whatever happened in this image. >>97983973
>>97984121He's the only one taking it seriously. The person that wrote the story actually did a full campaign write up and was so un-serious about it that he didn't even bother formatting it properly.Though, that's always how it is when you meme on a narcissist, nothing damages them as badly as being humiliated.Which is why he's spent 18 months trying everything to 'win' the situation, calling it boring, trying to claim the other guy is totes really the fishfag, shitting up /osrg/, it's wild how desperate he is.A socially malformed autist who can't let people laughing at him and his little gay crusade against ACKS go.
>97984151Oh shit, he's building up into meltdown mode!
Back to the topic. Humans in 1e/2e have one thing, unlimited class and levels. If those are removed, what would you give humans?I don't care how ACK does it. It's based off bx and not the topic here
>>97984151oh so he's more a lolcow then a troll then
>>97984163Why do you think games need specific rules for races?
>>97984164Buddy, how dumb do you think we all are.Quit samefagging already and just fuck off.
>>97984151God damn this is embarrassing for you
>>97984176It depends on the game, D&D has them. It's just human has nothing. Which shows they didn't think much about humans
>>97984178>>97984186> Buddy, how dumb do you think we all are.> Quit samefagging already and just fuck off.
>>97984314As only the first of those two posters, I reiterate to kindly fuck off.
>>97984323God damn this is embarrassing for you
>>97984314Yeah, you should quit samefagging.
>>97984326You're not doing yourself any favors.
>>97984337Ironic.
>>97984334why should i? surely you can just ignore me?
Final warning.
>>97984348are you gonna answer the question?
>>97984348Or what, you'll seethe so loud it gives us tinnitus?
Pinkertons en route.
>>97984363impressive. Let's see Paul Allen's threat.
>>97978840Low level AD&D is comically lethal, as has been demonstrated in infinity engine games. A sane GM will just not do too much serious combat at level 1, but at some point the issue of a mage who rolled a 1 on his 1d4 HD can't be avoided. It's a pretty common D&D houserule, especially common these days in 5e to punish corpsetanking. You start getting limbs cut off if you lean into that kind of risky strategy. There are a bunch of different systems to do so, but long story short: Instead of dying at 0HP, you roll on a critical hit table, with a penalty for how deep in the negatives you are going (so you can still die instantly if you're getting over zero a bit, and roll really badly on the crit table). Crits are long term injuries with mechanical penalties, and also give a penalty for any further crits you would be taking, much like in Warhammer Fantasy.In 2e, Player's Option: Combat has one such table.Pic related is what our table uses, partially homebrew. If you are doing this, you might want to lower Repair Injury to a second level priest spell (it still has to be prepared to be any use in these situations).Another way to work around HP issues in 2e is if you're tracking time, and using training downtime actions to level up or train NWPs (some settings outright require this, such as Birthright with its realm management), you can also include one to reroll your hit dice, increase their results by 1, or somesuch. 2e is designed for PCs to be at different levels anyway, so it's not like everyone will always be leveling up at the same time.
>>97983100>I am out of the loop, where did the term 'fishfag' come from?I am also new to the term.As there's some conflict between asshats regarding the origin, each apparently calling the other Fishfag, it seems to be defined as "he who treats ACKS as skub" in the common parlance.>>97983838>Another Anon flipped out at the story, saying it wasnt epic enough for him, and would not stop making himself very obvious.I'm leaning towards thinking this poster is in the wrong, simply from the way this is worded.That and the fact that the subsequent rage over a story being called boring is ridiculous. Screaming "I don't care!" has never once been believable.
>>97984480>I'm leaning towards thinking this poster is in the wrong, simply from the way this is worded.Man, archive links were posted, you can read it for yourself and the later fall out where someone clocked him based on his autismal seething.It wasn't even the same person that told the story and gave him the nickname, not unless he's going to start claiming it took 7 months for the guy to workshop it.
>>97984480>I'm leaning towards thinking this poster is in the wrong, simply from the way this is worded.>That and the fact that the subsequent rage over a story being called boring is ridiculous. Screaming "I don't care!" has never once been believable.yeah, this whole story smells fishy
>>97984480>That and the fact that the subsequent rage over a story being called boring is ridiculous.You mean everyone heckling him for going "Urgh that's so boring!"?If so; read further up from the original story.Fishfag spent a good few months having an autistic wobbly over ACKS before the story was told if I remember right and one of his major points was "It's is full of stupid, subsystems that no one uses that were made as padding. Also it's full of charts that no one in their right mind would ever look at let alone find a use for."Here, actual quote time:>A chart not worth the time it takes to roll on it is worse than worthless, just like a hammer that costs $30 to make but you can only sell it for $10 is worse than worthless.>If a chart provides you with ideas and results worse than what you could make up within seconds on your own, even including the effort involved in making your own charts as neccesary, it's absolute shit. If you look at ACKS and think "oh this is helpful" rather than "what a fucking retard", you might actually be retarded.Which is why that story starts with>I'm going to give a practical example actually of how these charts can be used.Everyone was laughing at him because rather than go "Alright, maybe you use them, weird but you do you?" he grabbed the goal post and ran for the horizon, then got memed on for it.Oh and pic related was from the same guy earlier in that thread, which I know because he posted his campaign log about 6 months ago and it contained all that shit he mentioned plus the fishing story.It was pretty good.
>>97984625You mean everyone heckling you for being boring? lol
>>97975974Ascending ACBump Wizard group to d6 hit die.Get rid of Rogue group and fold thief skills into class kits, mostly within the Warrior group.Remove or ease up ability-based class requirements.I would just as soon not play with nonweapon proficiencies at all (they're supposed to be an optional rule anyway) but they would need some sort of revamp if people insist on playing with them. But I say axe 'em.
>>97984468>GMlmao the evidence of tourism is constant, you just can't help yourself, huh
>>97984625You're really gungho on that whole "combining everyone who has ever criticized ACKS into one guy" thing. And your post shows you REALLY can't let it go that people called your story boring.Let it go. You keep trying to spin up a story where everyone was on your side and anyone who disagreed was just one guy, and you do it in such a weird, weaseling fashion.I don't even know if you believe yourself. Do you recognize the kind of jumps and leaps you keep making and how you have to constantly massage the story and occasionally just hit it with a few hard hits to try and get it into the shape you want?
>>97984674>people called your story boringBro. Anyone can follow that archive link. It's clearly one guy calling it boring out of pure cry-seething (like you're doing now) and everyone else mocking him for it.
>>97984628>>97984674Do stop samefagging. You got laughed out the room for trying to move goalposts 18 months ago and you've made it your entire personality ever since.
>>97984480>As there's some conflict between asshats regarding the origin, each apparently calling the other FishfagI'm reminded of the the way people will call each other "flyover."
>>97984687Yeah, stop samefagging.
>>97984673But have YOU tried not playing D&D, though?
>>97984683>>97984687You keep trying to do this, where you say "My samefagging isn't/wasn't obvious, and anyone who disagrees with me must be samefagging."That archive link doesn't tell the story you're trying to tell. It shows some pretty clear and hysterical samefagging coming from you, and to an ordinary person looks like it could only come from you.Anyone else in the world wouldn't care about a boring story being called boring. And, if we need any more proof that you're some weird mental case, you're STILL mad about people calling your story boring. I don't know what to tell you.You keep adding evidence that you're some really messed up guy. Like the screaming fit of rage in that screencap. >>97983973You want to try and pretend you're normal and everyone is on your side, and then you spend months attacking everyone and thinking they're some one guy who upset you.
>>97983957What the fuck are your filters if this fucking insanity is your idea of "on topic?"
Oh and for contrast, here's the person he insists is raging over being called boring posting:https://archive.4plebs.org/tg/thread/96417397/#96439366>Enjoy, critique, meme on my DMing style, or don't. I think the campaign has gone fairly well so far.Retard even forgot to put in his campaign map and still hasn't updated it far as I know.Clearly someone who takes himself mucho seriouso.There're also people in that thread pointing out that Fishfag was going to have a tantrum over the pdf being posted. Which he did and has done ever since, swinging wildly between "This is a fake campaign write up designed to try and assassinate me personally on a spiritual and memetic level. This attempt on my life has left me scarred and deformed, ect, ect" and "Only BrOSR cringelords do campaign write up. I said it and therefore it's true because I can never be wrong. So he must be a BrOSR.", the former being fucking retarded for all the obvious reasons and the latter being fucking retarded because the entire ideology of the BrOSR is "Run AD&D and only AD&D, using patron play, no NPC factions, no house rules, final destination." when the first 3-4 pages of the write up are "Yeah I thought this bit of ACKS was gay and lame so I tore it out and put my own shit in."But no one ever said the mentally ill had to be reasonable or rational I suppose.
>>97975974Add in a bunch of artwork of niggers and blue haired faggots. That seems to be the only way to update things these days.
>>97984158You called it.
>>97984674>you do it in such a weird, weaseling fashion.This.Just always trying to twist stuff to try and make his crazy make sense and it gets just more obvious when more people keep calling him crazy and he still has to say they're just one guy.
>MeltdownFun fact, one of the ways everyone over in /osrg/ knows it's literally the same retard all this time? He thinks this is some kind of magic word that transforms all the people laughing at him into angry people.Sounds crazy right?Meanwhile in the original thread, all the way back in Nov 2024;>the ACKShill has yet another meltdown>As for you addressing my assertions, aside from your meltdowns, you really haven't done much beyond admit to everyone that yes, the game is a tedious slog of awkward and idiotic subsystems, but you enjoy that slog.
>just saying "meltdown" actually triggers this guy to have a meltdownThat's actually pretty funny.
>>97983879The explicitly-described class-specific XP sources are no less fiat than the mentioned at-least-three layers of DM buy-in to give you GP value. Nobody in this thread has declared support for story goals, and the only sense this is "individual awards" is that the class's alternative XP sources differ.Only when you insist the sole valid engagement is the dungeon-crawling experience do I consider holding gold-as-XP sacrosanct to be valid, and that simply does not hold as the sole meaning of "OSR" when the very first supplements were based more in narrative extensions than expansion of the dungeon-crawling experience. Collaborative storytelling is the premise, dungeon-crawling is merely the game's original framing device.>>97984201>Which shows they didn't think much about humansNo, it's just reflective that humans are the "baseline" rules are written assuming and as the rest of the playable races aren't real all the distinguishing anatomical trivia isn't remotely assured to remain distinguishing.
>>97984810He's operating on levels of irony that mortals cannot understand.
>which side holds the fishfag argument, againI don't care who's samefagging or how many members each side actually has, railing against a campaign anecdote of the random bullshit subsystems saving time to enjoyable, even if not "exciting", outcome is far worse of a meltdown than vigorously shitting on said railing.
>>97984845you know we're just trolling a guy who's still melting down about someone calling the fishing story boring months ago right?
>>97984845No one cares about your story.No one cares about being called fishfag. What people care about his how you've just been shitting up this entire board. You calling people "fishfag" is just the easiest way to identify you.
>>97984845Telling people a boring story to try to sell a system is inviting people to call it boring.The guy's response to that has been so ridiculous that I can't even take you seriously when you pretend it's not a legendarily stupid tantrum to still be having.
>>97983826>Tell me where storyshitting is mentioned in the DMG, son. I'll wait.Not what was argued, you pathetic poseur.
>>97984860Wait, hang on, get your story in order. Just now you were saying "fishfag" is the guy with the supposedly boring story? But now you're saying the tendency to call people "fishfag" is the easy way to identify a troll?
>>97984859No, you are not, because it is consistently preceded by callout of "fishfag" (see >>97978688) and explaining it to unaware newcomers (see >>97983838). The posting pattern of it is that of recurrent attempts at COUNTER-arguments, not proactive trolling, unless of course you're engaged in baiting out the explanation to begin with to initiate shitting on the fishing story in which case you may as well be a samefagging retard.>>97984860>No one cares about your story.Multiple people asking and answering who "fishfag" is says otherwise.>No one cares about being called fishfag.The thread-derailing arguments about who "really" is say otherwise.>What people care about his how you've just been shitting up this entire board.Incorrect, I personally browse by catalogue filtering and hiding the vast majority of threads.>>97984897>Telling people a boring story to try to sell a system is inviting people to call it boring."Not exciting" is not the same as "boring". There are in fact forms of enjoyment outside immediate "excitement", as has been described at length on numerous occasions. Just because YOU are a dopamine-fried brainlet finding the described events boring does not mean THOSE PLAYING THROUGH THEM did, and as has been pointed out the case comes from a long-previous campaign writeup of very casual nature without any argumentative impetus.>The guy's response to that has been so ridiculous that I can't even take you seriously when you pretend it's not a legendarily stupid tantrum to still be having.It is not a "tantrum". Even when it rises to ACTUAL screaming rage (which is far rarer than you portray it; this does not lead to these lengthy explanatory posts with citations), this is well justified by being told to one's face that their experiences are a lie ad nausium for over a fucking year.
>I'm NOT having a tantrumYeah okay buddy.
>>97984980Again, this does not lead to lengthy explanatory posts. That attempts at arguing against you occur does not imply some childish emotional outburst. People are in fact capable of honestly thinking you are a retard.
>>97984962Being logical won't save you anon.You're talking in terms of reason while he's been hopped up on his own farts and over the speed limit, hammering down the sidewalk of his own inadequacy for the past 18 months.There's nothing you can do to reach an overemotional retard when he's decided that this is capital P Personal for him.He will live the rest of his life mad about people mocking him for trying to move the goal posts.
>>97984993>I'm NOT seething.>look how calmly I posted. I didn't use any exclamation points at all in my raving rantYeah. Okay, buddy. Okay.
>>97984994Dude, you sound exactly like the screencap >>97983973
>>97985012>he still thinks ad-homonyms will get anywhere
>>97985021lol
>>97985021https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u1t9H5oVlEc
>>97984962you know the best way to respond to trolls is to stop feeding us right? but that would hurt your poor ego wouldn't it.
I don't even know what's going on in this thread, but I'm pretty sure it's gayer than a San Fagcisco bathhouse in here.
>>97985146well its a gangbang on one guy who likes fish, so ya pretty gay.
>>97985146Trolls is what's going on. I dared mention 2e and those ass pirates couldn't stilop themselves.
>>97985181wrong you mentioned the fish story. that's why we stole your ass.
>>97985181>I dared mention 2eNo, it's not that, at all. It's your ongoing insistence on pushing a fake definition of OSR and trying to shoehorn it in everywhere you possibly can, and then doubling down when people point out that your horseshit is entirely made up in your own head.
>>97985185Not me, not everyone is your boogieman >>97985193 No, I had a very set topic here and you trolls had to come and shit up a thread. The OSR definition used by osrg is just that, only used by osrg and a few tiny places online that share that revisionist stupidity.This didn't have a damn thing to do with osrgs crusade. I was pure up talking Neo clone. Y'all are just such losers you hate to come troll
>>97985517>The OSR definition used by osrg is just that, only used by osrg and a few tiny places online that share that revisionist stupidity.No, not at all. It's the one used everywhere except for plebbit, Big Purple and a few other places like that that don't actually play OSR games but are extremely constipated about "inclusion". And even many redditors actually know better, they're just not mods of that particular reddit board so they can't fix it. See these posts by a redditor for example:>https://osrsimulacrum.blogspot.com/2021/12/a-historical-look-at-osr-part-v.html
>>97985562No, you trolls can link your one man blog to the sun dies, it won't change history or reality.Fuck off troll
>>97985703>t. Absolutely no proof of any of his revisionist claimsHow about if you say "no u" again, maybe that will work?
>>97984553>archive links were posted, you can read it for yourselfI certainly could. I choose not to do that with my time.>>97984625>You mean everyone heckling him for going "Urgh that's so boring!"?No?Although a bunch of idiots heckling absurdly has been none to happen.I meant that screencap above where anon went on and about how much he doesn't care. Me thinks anon doth protest too much.You explaining all you did is, again, pointless and trying too hard.One anon told a story.Another anon unnecessarily called it boring.Big whoop.Who.The.Fuck.Cares?As for ACKS, I looked into and considered running it but ultimately used the less sense An Echo Resounding.It seems fine.None if this is worth twisting one's panties up over tl;dr:>FishfagUgh
>>97985840Fuck off troll.
>>97984571>yeah, this whole story smells fishyYou though....I like you.Party on anons.
>>97975974>y'allfaggot
>>97984132mad?
>>97984480>I'm leaning towards thinking this poster is in the wrongim just a curious bystander, but youre wrong, heehee!LOL
>>97985562>tries to pretend that he uses other websites besides reddit>fails>backs his post up with one(1) guy on reddit and that’s itI’ve seen them lose this argument in the past and then they just act like Rome has fallen and it only survives here. Because, yea, there’s literally nobody saying “The OSR is basic and AD&D and ACKS and that’s it”. It’s deranged. Are you at least ready to admit that the extra threads don’t help?
>>97985848>I certainly could. I choose not to do that with my time.>But here's my hot take regardlessSo you're wilfully retarded rather than incidentally? Glad to hear it. In that case pic related and jog on.
>>97987438>So you're wilfully retarded rather than incidentally?No.First, I suspect that you meant "accidentally". Incidentally is an adverb meaning to mention something in passing, like "by the way", or to do something not on purpose/by chance.My take could accurately be described as incidental.As in: By the way, here's my hot take.It wasn't accidental at all.Second, I am being willfully ignorant of the length and breadth of the Fishfag shit flinging. Because I choose to be.I could deep dive and read all about it but that genuinely sounds more boring than a story about fishing in ACKS.I gave my take on what's been presented itt.If you take issue with with it, explain.If you just want to dismiss a dissenting opinion with a derisive and crude pic related? Well, that's a fine and noble /tg/ tradition. Fair enough.Just don't mistake yourself for being smarter, or better, than others for it.
>>97985848>>97987522>Writes like a RedditorThe case against you is pretty strong, Anon.
>>97987617>>Writes like a Redditor>The case against you is pretty strong, Anon.Hmmm. I see it. Fair point. I wasn't really paying attention. I'm not a redditor but meh.Anyway, have fun guys.
>>97987438I love how traumatized you've become by that pic.
>>97985517>The OSR definition used by osrg is just that, only used by osrgIt’s actually less than that. Have you been to the OSR thread in the past few years?>>97987438>NO NO YOU HAVE TO SPEND MORE TIME WALLOWING IN MY SHITYou see? They’re just hipsters and attention whores. If they actually wanted a thread with just pre-Dragonlance D&D plus ACKs then they would make a Gygaxian general or something, but they never wanted that, they want attention.
>>97988106No, I mostly lurk in the PDF share thread. But I know they have a really weird revisionist ideology of what OSR is.
>>97988106They want to groom people into their little cult. That's why they need to call themselves OSR, because that's the bait for their antlion trap. They need to sink their hooks into people who are curious about OSR but have no clue what it's about, because that's the only people their rhetoric would work on.The more they act the way they do, the more I'm convinced that they're not just a group of old men desperate to find and indoctrinate young blood to revitalize their dead blogs/forums/discords, but old men desperate to find and indoctrinate young blood for some far more nefarious purposeses.Not vampires, just really really gay fags.
Never played 2e (aside from the BG video games), but I love the specialty priests and that's what Cleric should have been in 3.5e really.I still love playing the 3.5e's Cleric, but having a spell list limited by your deity is both more balanced AND more flavorful. It's just a great idea overall.
