What was the ultimate fallout of the black/mexican orcs debacle? Was WotC secretly based for doing it?
>>97985777orcs in the 2024 PHB are simply being described as having been made in gruumshs image, which includes tusks and darkvisionfluff is also rather basic, since the expectation is that you will make most of it up, but it mostly just says they are nomadic wanders
>>97985777Enemy Orcs are closely related to goblins and trolls. Player Orcs are AD&D/Japanese butamimi. Simple as.
>>97985777Nothing because the whole "argument" (astroturfed /pol/ shitposting) was over before 6e released, and already hates and avoids playing 6e in the first placeOrcs are based on real people and they are g*rmans
What race does this orc represent?
>>97985871I can see the German argument, but it's clear that orcs are often used as pseudo racial tokens based on whatever the DM plays them as honestly.
>>97985871Orcs are a word for the Norman invaders used by the Anglo-Saxons
Orcs are Prussians/Germans. Warhammer Orcs are Prussians/Germans with norf accents.>>97985927100% German.
>>97985979Exactly. The barbarians at the gates are a universal concept. No matter who or when you are, there's always somebody out there who's so far outside of your norms as to appear downright inhuman, and one of the wonders of fictional storytelling is the ability to simplify the whole rabbit hole of human existence into an ontological divide where unremitting hostility to the other is the objectively correct option.Related as a corollary to the savage is the overwhelming and alien forigner, who arrives unbidden with means beyond your understanding and motives incomprehensible beyond the suffering they cause for you and yours. This is the realm of the Mind Flayers and the like, who despite their vast difference from the savage in terms of presentation still produce the same existential threat, different primarily in that while an Orc cannot be reasoned with, the Mind Flayer simply refuses to reason with you, because he already knows that he knows better.
>>97985927I think it can be argued that there's Viking influence here.
>>97986068>Orc cannot be reasoned with, the Mind Flayer simply refuses to reason with you, because he already knows that he knows better.Effectively, the Barbarian at the gate and the Colonizer at the gate. But the colonizer also eats brains. As y'do.
>>97986093Precisely. You could just as easily map it to the Scots and the Normans, or the British and the Native tribes.
>>97985979people who havent read tolkien can use orcs as symbols and metaphors for anything they like. But orcs as they exist in the public consiousness grew from a metaphor for germans because tolkien wrote them that way
>>97985927Hispanic or Indian.Possibly Persian, going by the psychological tactics used to defend them.
>>97985927Mongol.
>>97985777Traditional games?
>>97986544Do you not know what WotC stands for?
>>97986631Movies and literature are my favorite games.
>>97986631Yes. How did it impact your last traditional games session?
>>97985777Even in the Elder Scrolls, which has Redguards, all three people in your picture agree that the subhominid blk representation comes from orcs.So it is with D&D.
>>97986706My favorite little esoteric racism in all of fantasy is "Redguard aren't human".
>>97986719I still don't understand how they got away with it
>>97986733Because like 15 people played Arena, and then they all went on the Bethesda forums and shitposted with the devs until all of Daggerfall's lore books fell out.
Orcy boys are cool enough, but can we address how European most elves pretend to be?
>>97986058>>97985871>>97986177No-one actually genuinely believe this even a little bit, no matter how many times you lie about it.
Orcs aren't a "metaphor" for other races that's now how it works and it's only by a particularly retarded game of telephone that people argued like that.Unless it's Bright (2017) people don't write orcs and directly think of black people or whatever. The thing is that orcs have tropes associated with them that are obviously originated from real-world races- such as vikings, mongols, and yes, black and germans. They aren't "fantasy black people," or "fantasy germans" but many times, the writer wants them to be militaristic or aggressive and so they use mannerisms and behaviours they associate with a particular race, which in their head, is what being militaristic or aggressive is like.
>>97988591Bright orcifus make my pp hard
>>97985927the dude is dressed like a skyrim bandithe's norse as fuck.not to mention Gruumsh is a spear-wielding one-eyed god of storms and battle fury, and orcs are known for being raiders because the lands they live in are comparatively barren.
>>97988791>skyrim bandit>norse
>>9798859140k is pretty much blatantly making their orks out to be lower class british people.
>>97988921That's the demographic that taught the slaves how to be niggers, so it can be easy to mix up.
>>97988921No, they're the specific culture of football hooligans.
Today I will remind themhttps://youtu.be/ymUEPKTEQaQ?si=ZaQTiZYFYh6QSjrR
>>97989043> ?si=
>>97985777Orcs are not representative of real world human races. Orcs are a fun enemy to fight against. Can you say the same about irl human races? No.
>>97989107That's simply not true.
>>97989148Nazi isn't a race.
>>97986093One rapes your women and children, the other rapes your mind. Pick your poison.
>>97989160They were banging on about the Aryan race the whole time.
Lucky trips, faggot.Orcs are representative of a human condition, not any specific race.Ugly.Warlike.Malevolent.These adjectives were chosen by Tolkien himself to describe orcs in the definition he wrote for Oxford University. In his stories, orcs were a people fallen to corruption and the machinations of a terrible leader, and though recency-bias it's easy to attribute them to being Nazis fighting for Hitler, especially considering Tolkien fought in a war himself.His experience contributed to the darkness of his story's themes and the struggles of his characters, but was not direct allegory; Tolkien hated allegory.Throughout history there are examples of good, flourishing people being misled by an evil leader, a tyrant, one who would make his people fight or bend to his will on pain of death.The World Wars were some of the worst and furthest reaching wars in history, but they weren't our only wars.Did our resident /his/fags forget this? They know this better than I do.But Tolkien isn't even an authority on the matter, he merely established a widely-accepted description of a fantasy race, his works were merely referenced with the inclusion of many D&D creatures, regardless of if his works are present on Appendix N or not. Even his orcs were inspired by something older, as his magic was inspired by older ideas, his characters inspired by older concepts. People celebrate him as "the father of fantasy", but he was just a great man who wrote great stories; he didn't invent drawing inspiration from one's life and imagination, from one's ideals and whimsy.The ideas of monsters, of an enemy that must be felled, of challenges that must be overcome, are as old as storytelling itself. Every experience, fear, philosophy, thought humans are capable of have manifested as conflict for stories."The black/Mexican orcs debacle" is a joke.It began as a joke, because people used to be able to joke about everyone, instead of there being "off limits" creeds and races.
>>97989176Even if all nazis were aryans (they were not), not all of those they recognised as aryan were nazis.
>>97985777I want to give honest answers buti'll just be banned for racism in a thread directly about race.
>>97986719They're not human. It's like calling a beagle a grey wolf just because they're both Canis family.
>>97986719Aren't they humans who escaped from a different timeline after inadvertently destroying their homeland with sword-based nuclear warfare or something?
>>97985777Orcs should go back to their route of being a stand in for white people and therefore something you can guiltlessly slaughter.>>97985927Germans. Specifically the way Tolkien was taught to see them during world war 1. Hunnic rapebabies devoted to destroying everything good about Europe.
>>97989160Ayrans are a race and guiltlessly slaughtering them is very, VERY fun. >>97989409It's fine to kill race traitors (Aka: People willing to tolerate Ayrans) as well.
>>97988802>race literally called nords>not based on the norseyou serious?? I know people are dumb these days but cmon.
>>97985777Any honest conversation will be banned for the rule no racism despite a thread directly about race and racism so to put it shortly: No one was making the connection before leftists and blacks made a stink, leading to more people accepting the idea that a group of people known for being lawless and tribal, rapists and murderers, ugly and stupid do have a connotation and that anyone who acts like that we wouldn't want to live around. All works have to do is not act like that to lose the stigma but then they wouldn't be orcs and that's anti-orcish or something
>>97989160It is to them, anybody white. Any and all aspect of whiteness in itself is equivocated with evil to them. Don't ask them what the people fighting the Nazis in ww2 thought about race but it's not like they would suddenly change their mind, they playing propaganda games.
>>97989227Ofc genuine answer gets no replies because it's a bot thread
>>97989227yeah this anon summarized it pretty well, just close this waste of space thread
>>97991328Utter nonsense.
>>97991439Nta, but he's right.See; wokes saying Pragmata was not just "Pedo Propaganda" because it featured a little girl, but "Nazi Pedo" propaganda, because the little girl was blond with blue eyes.White = NaziForeswear your race all you like, when the ones that resisted are dealt with, you will be next.Because you are white, and you bear the "Original Sin" of dragging the world into modernity kicking and screaming, and they will NEVER forgive you.
>>97991547>See; wokes saying Pragmata was not just "Pedo Propaganda" because it featured a little girl, but "Nazi Pedo" propaganda, because the little girl was blond with blue eyes.It takes two to tango. I've seen the posts and both of you have this incessant obnoxious need to make it weird and political, as LOUDLY as possible.
>>97991547They'll go "what's wrong with wanting to kill Nazis" after calling everything right of gulags Nazism and just pretend there isn't an ulterior message. They'll say stuff like Malcom X became a moderate after shifting from "kill all white people" to "kill all white supremacists" (never ask what he thought was white supremacy). Only reply to these people to mock them and illustrate for others lookinh because they will never honestly engage in their politics. It is entirely identity/anti white war to them. That's how they've managed to capture so many hobbies and institutions, they play the game.
>>97991607It's "making it political" when we point out the people targeting us and tell them to stop ruining our games.
>>97989148These guys did not fight Nazis for your politics. You actually hate these people and call their kids racist boomers because they like fox news.
>>97991627Yes, it's not enough to just be happy about a good game. You need to crow about how it "awakens paternal instincts"/makes women want to have children, how it's part of a post woke era and align it specifically to your politics instead of allowing to just exist as a good game.
>>97991623>>97991638>Rightoid projecting>againGo dilate some more while crying about how offensive it is to be called a nazi.
>>97991739Man, I am reading the post chain, and the guy I was responding to is literally seething about killing nazis being fun.You don't get lower than rightoids.
>>97991655I'll take things that never happened for 300
>>97991745Because you call anyone white and not self hating about it a Nazi, we just went over this. Nazi looses it's meaning when you attach it to everything. I have values that are near identical to the people that actually fought Nazis and you think I'm one.
>>97991745And I'll keep replying every time because that's the game. You just say the same thing without genuinely engaging until you're the last voice left so your propaganda progresses as the loudest view.
>>97989148Also this is partly correct because this line of thought helped carry out the actual genocide and mass rape of ethnic germans including those that had been in other European countries for generations before ww2, all under the name of denazification. A genocide that actually happened, to clarify.
>>97985927>invades foreign lands>kills and enslaves the locals>destroys the natural ecosystem to industrializeOrcs are white.
>>97991945>deny deny deny
>>97991961But does the shoe fit? The funny part of this is almost every time the "they just call everyone right of center a nazi" gets trotted out, miraculously, nobody can provide concrete examples of what was said or expressed exactly, that got them to be labeled as such so that others can judge.
>>97992084If you are calling somebody a Nazi, or antthibf else, the onus is in you to prove your claim, rather than in them to disprove it.If you disagree, you must first prove that you are not actually a horse, or a piece of lawn furniture, or I will dismiss your engagement out of hand.
>>97992122>If you are calling somebody a NaziGood thing I never did then, huh? They are the one instead insisting they were called that yet also provide no evidence or context for why. Just a bunch of he-said she-said.
>>97985927>puckee aka pucke℮21 spamming his commission againhttps://www.reddit.com/r/DnD/comments/1f7fyl0/artcomm_orc_by_pedro_silva/https://desuarchive.org/_/search/image/tsy_l8sbr_q-AwGFvIghuw/>50 times since September 2024
Off topic garbage, post models
>>97985927A hybrid Incredible Hulk/World of Warcraft ripoff.
>>97992057>literally who>literally who>literally who>literally who>>97992171You've been implying it with the whole "look he's defending nazis" talk and would be outright saying it if I hadn't pointed out that trend before so.
>>97992057Wait hang on, none of these posts even say it's to make women want kids. They mainly talk of targeting men (the main audience of video games) or vague promote parentage in general. You were saying make women want babies like it's some nefarious plot of "the patriarchyx (having children, how oppressive!) and that's not even the stated angle of attack of these internet randoms.
>>97992023>didn't look up who was supplying the slave trade
>>97992470I mean, in this analogy that would make the black slave traders humans who collaborate with orcs, so Haradrim.If you look at the full history of the Atlantic slave trade either the Portuguese are uniquely evil or no one is.
>>97992458>goalpost move>goalpost move>goalpost move>goalpost move
>>97992491I'd say no one moreso than a sole villain since pretty much every civilization at a time practiced slavery
I really like elder scrolls orcs
Orcs are supposed to be a representative of the idea of evil. The "why" behind the Mongol invasions, for example, rather than representative of the Mongols themselves. They're the face of human cruelty. That's how they function as cautionary tales, "don't be like this". But now people equate them to blacks and say you're a racist if you don't like it, which is insane.
