What was the ultimate fallout of the black/mexican orcs debacle? Was WotC secretly based for doing it?
>>97985777orcs in the 2024 PHB are simply being described as having been made in gruumshs image, which includes tusks and darkvisionfluff is also rather basic, since the expectation is that you will make most of it up, but it mostly just says they are nomadic wanders
>>97985777Enemy Orcs are closely related to goblins and trolls. Player Orcs are AD&D/Japanese butamimi. Simple as.
>>97985777Nothing because the whole "argument" (astroturfed /pol/ shitposting) was over before 6e released, and already hates and avoids playing 6e in the first placeOrcs are based on real people and they are g*rmans
What race does this orc represent?
>>97985871I can see the German argument, but it's clear that orcs are often used as pseudo racial tokens based on whatever the DM plays them as honestly.
>>97985871Orcs are a word for the Norman invaders used by the Anglo-Saxons
Orcs are Prussians/Germans. Warhammer Orcs are Prussians/Germans with norf accents.>>97985927100% German.
>>97985979Exactly. The barbarians at the gates are a universal concept. No matter who or when you are, there's always somebody out there who's so far outside of your norms as to appear downright inhuman, and one of the wonders of fictional storytelling is the ability to simplify the whole rabbit hole of human existence into an ontological divide where unremitting hostility to the other is the objectively correct option.Related as a corollary to the savage is the overwhelming and alien forigner, who arrives unbidden with means beyond your understanding and motives incomprehensible beyond the suffering they cause for you and yours. This is the realm of the Mind Flayers and the like, who despite their vast difference from the savage in terms of presentation still produce the same existential threat, different primarily in that while an Orc cannot be reasoned with, the Mind Flayer simply refuses to reason with you, because he already knows that he knows better.
>>97985927I think it can be argued that there's Viking influence here.
>>97986068>Orc cannot be reasoned with, the Mind Flayer simply refuses to reason with you, because he already knows that he knows better.Effectively, the Barbarian at the gate and the Colonizer at the gate. But the colonizer also eats brains. As y'do.
>>97986093Precisely. You could just as easily map it to the Scots and the Normans, or the British and the Native tribes.
>>97985979people who havent read tolkien can use orcs as symbols and metaphors for anything they like. But orcs as they exist in the public consiousness grew from a metaphor for germans because tolkien wrote them that way
>>97985927Hispanic or Indian.Possibly Persian, going by the psychological tactics used to defend them.
>>97985927Mongol.
>>97985777Traditional games?
>>97986544Do you not know what WotC stands for?
>>97986631Movies and literature are my favorite games.
>>97986631Yes. How did it impact your last traditional games session?
>>97985777Even in the Elder Scrolls, which has Redguards, all three people in your picture agree that the subhominid blk representation comes from orcs.So it is with D&D.
>>97986706My favorite little esoteric racism in all of fantasy is "Redguard aren't human".
>>97986719I still don't understand how they got away with it
>>97986733Because like 15 people played Arena, and then they all went on the Bethesda forums and shitposted with the devs until all of Daggerfall's lore books fell out.
Orcy boys are cool enough, but can we address how European most elves pretend to be?
>>97986058>>97985871>>97986177No-one actually genuinely believe this even a little bit, no matter how many times you lie about it.
Orcs aren't a "metaphor" for other races that's now how it works and it's only by a particularly retarded game of telephone that people argued like that.Unless it's Bright (2017) people don't write orcs and directly think of black people or whatever. The thing is that orcs have tropes associated with them that are obviously originated from real-world races- such as vikings, mongols, and yes, black and germans. They aren't "fantasy black people," or "fantasy germans" but many times, the writer wants them to be militaristic or aggressive and so they use mannerisms and behaviours they associate with a particular race, which in their head, is what being militaristic or aggressive is like.
>>97988591Bright orcifus make my pp hard
>>97985927the dude is dressed like a skyrim bandithe's norse as fuck.not to mention Gruumsh is a spear-wielding one-eyed god of storms and battle fury, and orcs are known for being raiders because the lands they live in are comparatively barren.
>>97988791>skyrim bandit>norse
>>9798859140k is pretty much blatantly making their orks out to be lower class british people.
>>97988921That's the demographic that taught the slaves how to be niggers, so it can be easy to mix up.
>>97988921No, they're the specific culture of football hooligans.
Today I will remind themhttps://youtu.be/ymUEPKTEQaQ?si=ZaQTiZYFYh6QSjrR
>>97989043> ?si=
>>97985777Orcs are not representative of real world human races. Orcs are a fun enemy to fight against. Can you say the same about irl human races? No.
>>97989107That's simply not true.
>>97989148Nazi isn't a race.
>>97986093One rapes your women and children, the other rapes your mind. Pick your poison.
>>97989160They were banging on about the Aryan race the whole time.
Lucky trips, faggot.Orcs are representative of a human condition, not any specific race.Ugly.Warlike.Malevolent.These adjectives were chosen by Tolkien himself to describe orcs in the definition he wrote for Oxford University. In his stories, orcs were a people fallen to corruption and the machinations of a terrible leader, and though recency-bias it's easy to attribute them to being Nazis fighting for Hitler, especially considering Tolkien fought in a war himself.His experience contributed to the darkness of his story's themes and the struggles of his characters, but was not direct allegory; Tolkien hated allegory.Throughout history there are examples of good, flourishing people being misled by an evil leader, a tyrant, one who would make his people fight or bend to his will on pain of death.The World Wars were some of the worst and furthest reaching wars in history, but they weren't our only wars.Did our resident /his/fags forget this? They know this better than I do.But Tolkien isn't even an authority on the matter, he merely established a widely-accepted description of a fantasy race, his works were merely referenced with the inclusion of many D&D creatures, regardless of if his works are present on Appendix N or not. Even his orcs were inspired by something older, as his magic was inspired by older ideas, his characters inspired by older concepts. People celebrate him as "the father of fantasy", but he was just a great man who wrote great stories; he didn't invent drawing inspiration from one's life and imagination, from one's ideals and whimsy.The ideas of monsters, of an enemy that must be felled, of challenges that must be overcome, are as old as storytelling itself. Every experience, fear, philosophy, thought humans are capable of have manifested as conflict for stories."The black/Mexican orcs debacle" is a joke.It began as a joke, because people used to be able to joke about everyone, instead of there being "off limits" creeds and races.
>>97989176Even if all nazis were aryans (they were not), not all of those they recognised as aryan were nazis.
>>97985777I want to give honest answers buti'll just be banned for racism in a thread directly about race.
>>97986719They're not human. It's like calling a beagle a grey wolf just because they're both Canis family.
>>97986719Aren't they humans who escaped from a different timeline after inadvertently destroying their homeland with sword-based nuclear warfare or something?
>>97988802>race literally called nords>not based on the norseyou serious?? I know people are dumb these days but cmon.
>>97985777Any honest conversation will be banned for the rule no racism despite a thread directly about race and racism so to put it shortly: No one was making the connection before leftists and blacks made a stink, leading to more people accepting the idea that a group of people known for being lawless and tribal, rapists and murderers, ugly and stupid do have a connotation and that anyone who acts like that we wouldn't want to live around. All works have to do is not act like that to lose the stigma but then they wouldn't be orcs and that's anti-orcish or something
>>97989160It is to them, anybody white. Any and all aspect of whiteness in itself is equivocated with evil to them. Don't ask them what the people fighting the Nazis in ww2 thought about race but it's not like they would suddenly change their mind, they playing propaganda games.
>>97989227Ofc genuine answer gets no replies because it's a bot thread
>>97989227yeah this anon summarized it pretty well, just close this waste of space thread
>>97991328Utter nonsense.
>>97991607It's "making it political" when we point out the people targeting us and tell them to stop ruining our games.
>>97991627Yes, it's not enough to just be happy about a good game. You need to crow about how it "awakens paternal instincts"/makes women want to have children, how it's part of a post woke era and align it specifically to your politics instead of allowing to just exist as a good game.
>>97991745And I'll keep replying every time because that's the game. You just say the same thing without genuinely engaging until you're the last voice left so your propaganda progresses as the loudest view.
>>97989148Also this is partly correct because this line of thought helped carry out the actual genocide and mass rape of ethnic germans including those that had been in other European countries for generations before ww2, all under the name of denazification. A genocide that actually happened, to clarify.
>>97985927>invades foreign lands>kills and enslaves the locals>destroys the natural ecosystem to industrializeOrcs are white.
>>97985927>puckee aka pucke℮21 spamming his commission againhttps://www.reddit.com/r/DnD/comments/1f7fyl0/artcomm_orc_by_pedro_silva/https://desuarchive.org/_/search/image/tsy_l8sbr_q-AwGFvIghuw/>50 times since September 2024
Off topic garbage, post models
>>97985927A hybrid Incredible Hulk/World of Warcraft ripoff.
>>97992023>didn't look up who was supplying the slave trade
>>97992470I mean, in this analogy that would make the black slave traders humans who collaborate with orcs, so Haradrim.If you look at the full history of the Atlantic slave trade either the Portuguese are uniquely evil or no one is.
>>97992491I'd say no one moreso than a sole villain since pretty much every civilization at a time practiced slavery
I really like elder scrolls orcs
Orcs are supposed to be a representative of the idea of evil. The "why" behind the Mongol invasions, for example, rather than representative of the Mongols themselves. They're the face of human cruelty. That's how they function as cautionary tales, "don't be like this". But now people equate them to blacks and say you're a racist if you don't like it, which is insane.
>>97992212This isn't even a Warhammer thread. Kill yourself.
>>97993787This.ES orcs are simple, not always hostile, but not friendly unless you're also an orc. They did it well, especially considering all the other unique races you can play as.
>>97992023explains why orcs always have goblins with them
>>97986659I don't play traditional games sessions with overtly racist caricatures. My last game session avoided that and it was fine. If someone started depicting Orcs as transparently racist caricatures in my next game I'd be taking an issue with that.
>>97989733Actually, that's closer to what it is. Humans are all the same species despite physical differences. In fact, our DNA is more homogeneous than other animals in the same species. Humans all being the same species is why we can all breed with eachother and make viable offspring. A beagle and a gray wolf make viable offspring. Hybrids of wolves and domestic dogs are wolfdogs. Your metaphor isn't a good one. Redguards would be considered human it. >>97989227Realest nigga in the thread.
>>97985927Android.
>>97988569I believe it.
>>97992023The Islamic slave trade was much larger, longer-lasting, and more horrific than the European one.Orcs are Muslims, as Tolkien and Gygax intended.
>>97985927Someone from those barbarous wastelands up north.
>>97997659What do you have against Sweden, anon?
>>97997724What SHOULDN'T I have against the Sw*dish menace?
>>97997730>t. D*ne
>>97992023They're calling this the most jewish post ever made on /tg.
>>97986058Orcs are North Germans, Ogres are Brits/Irish (the latter of whom are just Brits in denial).
>>97992023>invades foreign lands>kills and enslaves the locals>destroys the natural ecosystem to industrializebut enough about megacorporations
>>97985777I see orcs as black people
>>97985777You can make parallels between fantasy races and real life races all day long but ultimately you're seriously limiting yourself if you just make them a 1 for 1. It's better to seriously think about their traits and the realistic consequences they would have.Like Elven immortality. The oldest elves remember when humans were cavemen, the masters of elven crafts have been honing their skills for longer than humans as whole have, think about the difference in skill that would logically make. And then you have just the difference in mentality, an Elf can undertake some project that will take centuries with the full knowledge that they'll see the end of it, meanwhile humans have to just trust that other people will finish their great works. And the fact that humans die so young, imagine if you came across a race that reached old age and died after six months, how would you see them?Then you have Dwarven craftsmanship which isn't ever seriously considered, you know when you see some shack in a third world country and you're left wondering how the thing is even standing and how someone could stand to live in such squalor, that's how a dwarf would view the best built human houses. Imagine you came across a race and everything they made was about the same level as a child, how would you view them?What separates Orcs from humans is that every orc is capable of some level of violence and if they aren't they can't survive in orc society, this is a fundamental difference from human society because the majority of humans are mostly peaceful and exist to be taxed by whatever minority of humans have a monopoly on violence, which depending on where you live is either a gang or the state. Meanwhile the most mild-mannered orc will still fight you to the death if you try to take his stuff. This is a huge difference, and just as humans would view orcs as violent savages the orcs in turn would view humans as weak-willed cowardly slaves.
>>98003762Man, I don't understand how you can read something like>>98000948and STILL fall for it.
>>97985777My orcs are like super mutants from fallout, makes it easy.
>>97985777People who think Orcs are problematic tend to be people who get wet at the idea of throwing Nazis down mineshafts and letting them suffocate to death.
>>97985777it's simple, orcs are british
>>97992023truthnuke
>>97986058>Warhammer Orcs are Prussians/Germans with norf accents.They could not have made it more apparent that they're supposed to be britbong football hooligans, even their "WAAAAAGH" thing is supposed to be a stadium shout
>>98003952>*People whom they call Nazisftfy
Wow! There's a lot of insightful debate of traditional games in this thread!
>>97985777Orcs objectively are modeled after Tolkien’s innate Anglo fear of the Central European. This is lost on Americans with their literal black and white understanding of race.
>>98004717Not really.I get called a nazi, a commie, a tranny, and a whole slew of other things continuously by /pol/fags, and none of it ruffles me, on account of not being those things.
>>97996958They're not just Muslim, but Turkish/Turkic/Ottoman more specifically. The map of Middle-Earth maps fairly neatly over an European analogue, in which Mordor is essentially Turkey (which Tolkien in his time would have recognized as the entirety of the Ottoman Empire, e.g. the lands of Mordor we do not get to see.Beyond that, it's just a vague general sense of turko-mongolian asiatic hordes and the orcish/mordorian/sauronite culture/faith as a perversion of the elven ideal, the latter which is entirely based in Tolkien's Catholic autism's interpretation of western pagan civilization, making Islam the unquestionable stand-in for the pairing.Anyone trying to go "le Germans xD" and "muh Vikings" (ancestries and cultures Tolkien was keenly aware that Anglos largely stemmed from and which he regularly exalted) is either trolling or coping.
>>97989148Why's he uselessly firing his gun into the air?Also why is the other gun going off if he's no longer holding onto it. Wouldn't the cover look cooler if BJ was blasting the guy with his big gun?Also also neither of those guns were used in World War 2, one of those looks more like an AR while the one held by BJ doesn't even look real. I mean, why does it have three barrels?I don't even know what the guy in the background is doing. He's a got a gun, he shooting be shooting it and nor running forward like a retard.
>>97988591Bright orcs are obviously based on mexicans/latin americans thoughbeit
>>97992023So THAT'S why I like playing them so much!
>>98009487You're deranged and lying about who you are. If any one is the tranny it's you. Orks represent orks and even if it was any race it wouldn't be any European one.
>>98009525>>98009530Someone says Nazi isn't a race, you say they are and then I say they are but for reasons you don't like. Then you pretend you don't hold the views you do to have an argument. That's the contention. You don't read.
>>98009589Just circles at this point so leaving the thread now. Please stay away from my hobbies.
>>98009612>Welcome to being a punk literally 50 years ago, you 12 year old child.But being a punk is good, isn't it?
>>98009617Who cares?
>>97992057Men do have universal paternal instincts it's just not for cuchie-cooing babies.Paternal instincts kick in when kids are old enough to play with.Piggyback rides, play fights, picking them up and throwing them into a pile of soft thing, dad jokes, tall tales, mansplaining (it has a positive form, when the person being explained to is actually ignorant.). And of course protectiveness.And studies have found it's actively good for kids brain development. Physical coordination, social awareness, word skills, critical thinking, aggression control and emotion regulation, anxiety resilience... There's a reason why "fatherless behavior" is a thing. A kid needs SOMEbody in their life supplying it. And generally speaking, as long as they're around men, some man somewhere will start to fill it, at least while they're around him.Hell, I remember a green text where an anon was kind of bullied by his girlfriend into opening their relationship for cuckoldry, and the BVLL (correctly) identified anon as being in a severe lack/need of being dadded and started fathering him.Which... I guess maybe there's something to that the other way. Manchildren like anon probably don't have that instinct because they're still in need of fathering themself. It's just capital-M men who have it. But it's still a hilarious proof in pudding that men do have it, even in cases where the definition of child is stretched to its limits.
>>98009639So, why are you responding to posts on twitter here on 4chan?
>>98009654Correcting the record for the peanut gallery
>>98009817So you are arguing with nobody, for imaginary people.
>>97991267Would you care to explain what part of this character's outfit is Norse to you?
>>98004192It was a reference to a real thing but yeah.
>>97995289Grossly incorrect, a Jewish mindset of genetics to cope for their own horrific diseased selves. Many separate species, including humans are capable of interbreeding and producing offspring
>>98013096I said viable offspring. If you're talking about stuff like ligers, they are sterile. What different species can reproduce with each other and make viable offspring?
>>97995289NTA>Redguards would be considered human it. By that metric, so would elves and beastfolk.>>98013096>The Hitlerian reading of race is Jewish cope
>>98013229Maybe my metaphor isn't a super good one either for elder scrolls if elves and orcs and khajit and the like can interbreed with each other and humans. So in ES, either they're all different species who can crossbreed unlike IRL species, or they actually are all 'human' as you say.
>>97985927The Puckee kind, now please fuck off and stay off
>>97989107I would choose to shoot muslim terrorists any fucking day. Nothing like bringing western military power against a bunch of mud-hut dwellin', goat-fuckin', cousin-fuckin', towel headin', dune coonin', camel ridin', uncultured savage barbarian
>>98014197Muslim isn't a race either lol
>>98013737>either they're all different species who can crossbreed unlike IRL speciesThe three big cases are Notes on Racial Phylogeny, the Bretons, and the Grey Prince. Phylogeny establishes that race is carried down via the mother, but the Bretons are the result of elves fucking their Nord slaves for pretty much the entire Merethic era. Putting them together, it seems that if you keep it up for a few thousand years, you can get results that would be close to a first- or second-generation mix with real world genetics.The Grey Prince is notable on two fronts, one being that he's a half-Orc, which Phylogeny indicates is the one no-go pairing among men and mer, though it also states that it could just be that nobody admits to being an Orc-spawn, and in my own estimation, it's also possible that only male Orcs aren't capable of intermixing, and female Orcs can get knocked up by anyone. The other half is that apparently male vampires are still virile in TES, which... you know what, that's pretty on-brand for Molag Bal, I'll give it a pass.
>>98015532I'm not a TES lore buff, but I'm shocked I didn't see anything about the races cross breeding (other than the Breton thing) by now. Thank you for the info. Races being passed on by the mother unless one's entire race just stubbornly keeps at it for several thousand years is kind of funny. As is Molag Bal's thing.
>>98007146Where's your fucking handler?
>>97992023You made four or five grown men cry with this post lmao. Well done mate.
>>97985871Lord of the Rings is based on Germanic myth, dumbass.
>>98015765Molag Bal is a character of all time. And old TES was horny as hell.
>>97985777okay but why are modern orcs all green?
>>97985777orcs are representative of a real-world race; just not africans
>>97986058I was about to say that this guy has the physique of someone who never did any manual labor and is just posing for a photoshoot with that hatchet and then realised it is the actual gigachad guy who is literally just a model and a bodybuilder.kek!!!
>>97989088https://simplelocalize.io/data/language/si/
>>97989043>>97989088>>98017861In this case, the ?si= means 'share info' and is a means of tracking how videos are shared
>>97989043>orc has two left handsI never really understood why extra credits took a tumble.They were always calling everyone nazis, so why the hivemind suddenly noticed I don't know. Maybe it was self reflection.
>>97985777Its basically a test to see if people are capable of seperating fantasy from fiction. The whole point of different races is that they arent human, so when people who arent creative come in and try to say they are actually just representations of humans show that they just lack the capcity to think outside of their own modern reality. >orcs are barbariansYea, and its awesome, making them just fucked up looking humans is lame.
>>97994024This is a Warhammer board with some D&D posts.
>>98017514Warhammer Fantasy and then Warhammer 40k.
>>97985777I've never actually seen a setting where Orcs are blackLe honourable ones are almost always traditionally either Germanic tribes or vaguely mongolicThe "Savage" but powerful type are usually still just Germanics or vaguely mongolicEven Tolkien Orcs with the most negative stereotypes are "Asiatic" and also more literally modern germans with an "industrialism" bad (and I assume a little hidden jab at G*rmoids being "Huns")
>>97986719How did Todd get away with it ?Also aren't they actually metaphysically elves from a previous cycle or alternate universe (I'm not sure where it lands on the "walkabout" thing they did)
>>97989733Redguards are not even from Nirn if you want to go down the "phylogenetic" route and even if you were to say they still come from a similar ancestor in a different timeline, they're actually still not "in the Canis family" because they were the Elves in their timeline
>>97985777>We were all orcs t. Tolkien, the creator of orcs, in his memories of World War I. Next you'll find out how golf was invented by the hobbits of Middle Earth.
>>97986747Redguard were just "normal" humans until (ironically) I'm guessing "Redguard" which started all the "esoteric" cosmic wacky stuff proper
>>97992023Orcs are mutilated, like all the evil races. Reading online topics and discussions it's not unclear that the circumcised nations have been twisted into cruel mockery of their true nature.
>>97985871Orcs are only german in my setting because they were created by wizard hitler during the setting's version of world war 2 called The Great Wound. He basically played god by creating life and in turn him and his allies were defeated by the setting's version of the allied powers. Decades later, the living orcs would intergrate into society at large and form the setting's version of H&K.
>>98013229Mer and men do come from a common ancestor (and TES doesn't really have scientific genetics but rather it's more metaphysical and mythopoeic). The divergence event for "ehlnofey" was whether they backed Shor or Auriel, also Khajiit (and Bosmer) are Elves that possibly diverged a "branch" "up" from all the "Aldmer" derived "real" elves, so they're not real beastfolk (only Argonians are, and they're magic tree aliens from a different reality, so they're not either really (not sure if it's the same "mechanism" as how Redguards are))
>>98018578So an Australian or an Albanian would be a white orc.
>>98013737Speciation also has never really been defined in reality by being able to breed, it's just a quick and dirty heuristic (and without it, before molecular genetics it actually becomes hard to define). Like the hooded and common (?) crow can breed and have fertile, stable, offspring, are closely related, but they're still speciated.
>>98015765It's basically a case of if you keep doing it so much, that reality will create a new "mixed" race, but there are otherwise "fixed" racial souls that are sent down from the dreamsleeve or something. I don't have enough lore reference in my head right now to fully explain itYour wording of it is pretty much how it happens, altmer kept breeding mannish wives so much that it "tricked" reality into needing to create a new category (TES is also a mythopoeic setting so that probably plays into it too)
>>98017426Uninspired king of rape. And much of whatever vive was up to in the lessons. Deep lessons on TES reality or metaphors for gaysex. >>98018608See, that's interesting. Maybe it's the norm, alongside physiological similarities showing shared ancestry, but there are exceptions like with the crows. >>98018634TES having weird background lore is great, and reminds me of runequest. The broo from runequest can mate with anything, even in-animate stones, and I immediately thought of them when the topic of cross-species mating came up. TES having that weird fantasy "it just works like that" without just being consensus reality or something makes it interesting for me.
>>97988591I don't even see how orcs are the least bit black; negative depictions of africans are about how hapless and retarded they are, how easy they are to oppress and loot, and how utterly inept they are at governing themselves once whitey got too guilty to keep oppressing them.tolkein orcs had, like, industry and shit. They were more technologically advanced than the humans.
>>97988569Axes, berserkers/blood rages, enemies of all civilization, raiding, association with wolves, etc. It's all Germanic coded (incl. Scandinavians) if it's coded anything. Racists just literally see anything bad and go "LE EBIN BLACK PEOPLE" as if white people never did anything wrong throughout all of history.
>>97991989There was no mass genocide of ethnic Germans. They were ethnically cleansed after WW2, yes, because they had just got done doing WW2 and justified it in large part as being "to unite the German lands" (Austria, Sudetenland, Alsace-Lorraine, Danzig, etc).
>>97985777Orcs had always been used to fit at the place of "The Other". In the sense that even Russians got called "Orcs" since the Ukraine war, even called like that by other slavs.In this manner, the title of Orc will always rotate, one day even the less orcish will be called orcs, because of conditions changing.
>>97992023>>97992470orcs are white , their evil dark masters are jewish, is that simple anon.
>>98023717>culture of nihilistic brutality warped by similarly brutal subjugationin fairness, Russians are a particularly good fit for it, to the point that one of them was offended enough by LotR to write a cope fanfic (The Last Ringbearer) about how Mordor were ackshyually the good guys and everything Tolkien wrote is evil NATO lies
>>98024555I wanted to like Liu Cixin's books too but the second one in the Three-Body Problem has insane thirdie cope momentsWhy are they like this
I never really got why a picture of orcs dressed like Mexicans had to mean “orcs are Mexicans now” any more than if they had the same picture with humans. I mean, I get why that was the read (inability to think of non-humans as anything but a monoculture) but it was always silly. This is not a defense of the art, which was bad.
>>97986058So in Warhammer, Orcs are Prussian/Germans who fight against... the Holy Roman Empire Prussian/Germans? Why not go fully German, in that case? Forces of Chaos? Roman-era Forest Germans. Chaos Dwarfs? Nazi Germany. High Elves? West Germany. Dark Elves? East Germany. Wood Elves? Austrians. Bretonnia? Teutonic Knights. Dwarves? Yiddish. Tomb Kings? Ancient Hyperborean Aryan Supermen. Lizardmen? European Union.
>>98026825>I never really got why a picture of orcs dressed like Mexicans had to mean “orcs are Mexicans now” any more than if they had the same picture with humansPeople jumped on that image because it was hot off the heels of WotC flagellating themselves over Orcs being metaphorical black people.
>>97992023>>97996958>>98003987>>98003998>>98009495>>98007268>>98016883goddam i love /tg/
It's the idea of there being a pure evil race at all that makes normies upset.
>>97985777Why is this image so funny lol
>>98028950Yeah and its fucking hilarious seeing them defend the race that sustains itself exclusively on the flesh and suffering of infants
>>98028950>>98028998Except orcs in DnD were never "pure evil." Gygax said they were, but he was not the sole influence on DnD and by 2nd edition that idea was long gone.
>>98026825Honestly I only repeated it because I found it funny. Also >>98027547 added to the joke.
>>97985871>Orcs are based on real people and they are g*rmanssecretly based let's gotolkien was a kike-lover and was among the plethora of genocidal anti-white english filthorcs are absolutely germans i don't know how goyim can hear things like "middle earth was inspired by his time as a ww1 soldier" and still think he's based. Christians are truly the enemy.
>>98030249How's the whole Aryan spirit possession working out for you, anon?
>>97992023DAS RITE
>>97992023Tsar Bomba level trvke
>>97985777Orcs and Orks were never really meant to map onto much in real life besides vague 'football hoolagin' speech and mannerisms. Tolkiens Orcs? Again, no culture, just brutes who hate life.But honestly only faggots still give a shit about the WotC lore, so if they make faggot orcs to appeal to faggots that's fine by me.
>>97985777>What was the ultimate fallout of the black/mexican orcs debacle?Only gay babies cared.
>>98030395>being possessed by a pagan (read demon) spirit >launch bloodiest war in human history And there are people who worship this fucking asshole.
>>98030249Sorry, cucky, ChristCHADS won. You will NEVER go back to living in mud huts worshipping rocks and trees. You WILL live in the glory of Rome's successor. And you WILL be happy.
>>97986733Pelinal did nothing wrong.
>>97988569except they are germans and you're a retard, possibly underage as well.t. veteran racist
>>98040974the engl*sh are truly a strange folk
>>98040959Have you even *heard* the name Yawheh before? This level of "neo-Christians don't even own a fucking Bible, let alone read it" shouldn't be possible.
>>98030249>orcs are absolutely germansthey are absolutely not, as indicated by tolkien being famously irritated by people treating his writing as allegory for anythingif they were influenced by his experiences, then it would be as a personification of industrialized warfare rather than any specific race of people
I don't care I just fucking hate Tolkienshit. The only thing I hate more than Tolkienshit is "Elves are French, Dwarves are English, Orcs are German," lazy "worldbuilding" that belongs in a shitty anime artist's OC sketches.
>>97985927Niggers
>>98018588>Decades later, the living orcs would intergrate into society at large and form the setting's version of H&K.Hong & Kong?
>>97985927His physiognomy is a distorted, monstrous version of a Spanish peasant's, a morisco from the southern provinces.
>>98017846>it is the actual gigachad guy who is literally just a model and a bodybuilder.Who is also a Turk, not a German.
>>98024555>>98023717We call them orcs because their mentality is: "we live in shit and you should too".Funny thing. My childhood friend was a russian-descent. He was pretty gentle and kind guy but somehow among all aesthetics he always liked orcs and similar-type barbarians. It is really something in genetics.
>>97985927Albanians
>>98051117Only old-school pig man orcs
>>97985871Brown.>>97985979>>97986177>>98023648>>98041211Illiterate subhuman ape-beings missing the obvious mongol/horde coding for the window dressings that are their naming conventions and Saruman's semi-industrialisation of war. Literally mindbroken by your own prejudices into disrespecting and warping the author's vision. Don't ever post here again.
>>98003987Nah. Orcs have better teeth.
Los orcos de Tolkien son chilangos específicamente
>>98018528They're supposed to be sheer opposite of humanity - evil, ugly, of bestial strength, industrializing with no concern of surrounding land and life. To even consider them to be similar to Africans is simply virtue-signalling ignorant nonsense that is both because of Bantu who are apparently the lowest form of African.
>>97985927Orcs feel very Germanic/viking coded, but that's not the answer people like because it doesn't stir enough shit.
>>97989227Good post
>>97997724They aren't properly hijacking those Russian tankers when they're actually full of oil.
>>97997724It's more a holdover of historic stereotypes as far back as Rome, which were later used in old fantasy stuff like pulp, swords and sorcery, etc etc. Orcs are barbarians in the classical sense of goths and other barbs who Romans looked down on as savages.
>>98018548>How did Todd get away with it ?Normies weren't much into games back then
>Conservative types repeatedly pretending they didn't call orcs niggers for decades before liberals caught on
>>98051579I didnt miss it I wanted to make you mad>ILLITERATE BROWWN SUBHUMANS I AM THE KEEPER OF TRUTH REEEEEEEEEEit worked.
>>98042401>industrialized warfareSo Orcs are America?
>>98050217Blessed be the Master of Mankind
>>98053233And you will be right
>>97985777unironically a window into the racist mind of your average reddit leftoid>in my fantasy world there is a race of violent warlike conquerors bent on fighting and dominating their enemies>WOAH WHY DO YOU HATE BLACK PEOPLE!!?!!?!??!or>my fantasy world has elves, pale, haughty and aloof people who once had a vast kingdom>WOW YOUR ELVES ARE WHITE PEOPLE YOU'RE A NAZI
>>98056383Only if the orcs are your setting's only world power.
>>979858716e isn't out yet. Do you mean 5.5/ONE/2024?Also weren't the Orcs based off of the raiders and barbarians in general. Often mixing Viking/Goth/German/Mongol/Slav and other groups into a one fantasy race. Basically your non-human barbarian grunt soldier race. The whole orcs are "X" coded was a BS ploy to attack said fantasy IP and push anti-white men shit into it.
>>97985777There was no fallout.People on Xitter that don't play games, don't make games, don't make supplements, and don't make hacks got mad.
Tribal Africans just do not have kind of culture of successful warfare that would make me equate them with fantasy orcs, whose raids and conquests should actually be a big deal and ferocious enough that the setting's civilized races have been unable to solve the orc problem. I suppose Zulus come close, but they as a warrior culture were too organized and formally ritualistic to remind me of orcish savagery either.
Orcs should be semi-feudal and ruled over by an overlord from a more intelligent race who gives their destructive natures direction and structure.
>>98057902or formerly ruled by said overlord, who has since been destroyed/gone for whatever reason, yet is outlasted by their now-independent slave army despite it being technically "free", perpetuated only by the institutionalized cycle of abuse it had been designed to be and its members are raised in
>>98057902"Should" as in "In order to reach their highest potential".I imagine, left to their own devices, they disperse into competing bands, and are reduced to living off forage and pillage.
>>98057552Didn't WOTC make a half-arsed commitment to reverse course recently?The woke has been biting into their sales figures for little reason other than most people find it uncool, and it is rapidly becoming a dated artifact of a crap epoch, that few will ever feel nostalgia for.
>>98023648The people saying orcs and blacks don't believe that was the literal intention. They just equate them to meme. You need to get outside sometime.
>>98029384That's some weird cope, considering how the MM just tells you that they're evil. Moreover, orcs were never a race in the core rule books, just half-orcs, which were the products of rape in early settings.
>>97985777As an argentinian, I want to firmly declare that each and every of those canned beverages taste like an native-american put a marshmallow in his mouth, took a sip of mate and spit it in the can. They are horrible, disgusting and taste like diabetes, stay away fron those.
>>98035890>Tolkiens Orcs? Again, no culture, just brutes who hate life.Tolkien orcs are the brutish middle clean corrupted to industry, since Tolkien craved a return to being a feckless noble with slaves
>>97989176Aryan isn't a singular race. It a vague theory of an Aryan people stemming from central Asia and creating civilisation. The Nazis considered Germanic people to be descendant of the Aryan people, but not just them. Most European People were considered artsverwandt and Aryan enough to gain citizenship in Germany. Hitler also listed Hellenistic Greece as a non-Germanic example of an Aryan people in Mein Kampf.Also something important, the Nazis didn't invent this theory. It was present in many esoteric circles decades before the Nazis even existed, first in Poland and later in France before it swapped over to Germany. The nazis only modified it slightly with different races qualifying as Aryan
>>98058693Not vague at all.Haplogroup studies of bronze-age population movements, and mitochondrial DNA analysis are bringing a lot into the light.Some of the oldest sources of myth, and some of the things we discarded as hand-me-down hearsay or victorianisms have been vindicated.Indeed, the people we call the Aryas were likely descended from the first tribe to tame The Horse, on the Eurasian steppe, and they encountered the peoples of Anatolia to their south, and learned from them how to make copper tools.Cultures descended from, this people disseminated these technologies across western and central Eurasia, and formed a significant proportion of the genetic lineage of north-west Eurasia, with strains found as far afield as the Hindu Kush and North Africa, to the British Isles.
>>98055500>Merely pretending Alright, it worked. Congratulations. I'm just glad you aren't really such a pitiful waste of oxygen, Anon.
>>98058495Thank you for your input anon.No irony.
>>98023675>There was no mass genocide>They were ethnically cleansed>they had just got done doing WW2 (they meaning random German towns in eastern Europe)Shalom. How goes the war effort? Here's a nice book recommendation for you.
