Mexican bot thread.
https://archive.4plebs.org/tv/thread/220381048/

>>98023395
The Rule of Two makes perfect sense when you realize that it's a religion specifically about being chaotic evil. As long as you willingly abide by the rules of the Sith, you are not ready to be a true Sith Lord and thus remain a mere apprentice. The final test of any Sith apprentice is to purposefully violate the rules with the goal of gaining power, training their own secret apprentice(s) to help kill the previous Lord.

>>98023395
>>98023478
What actually doesn't make sense is how other Dark Side cults are apparently super okay with the Sith being incompetent twats and never manage to get one over them.

>>98023395
>Inquisitors exist
>(Sith in all except the name)
Nah, they're dark side acolytes if anything, they aren't taught anything beyond the basics so they aren't considered apprentices to a Sith Master, meaning they aren't Sith. At best they're Sith-Trained Force-Sensitives.
>Rule of One
>multiple Sith Lords exist
The Rule of One doesn't say there can't be multiple Sith Lords, it actually just limits the title of Dark Lord of the Sith, which is a higher title.

>>98023395
Considering the entire Sith philosophy boils down to "screw the rules, I do what I want and you can't stop me, cause I'm a badass evil space-wizard", they wouldn't really be Sith if they actually consistently followed their own rules. Sure, they play lip-service to the Rule of Two to maintain their credibility as Sith, but they bend those rules whenever they can if it furthers their own goals: "oh, those black-wearing Force users with red lightsabers? Totally not Sith, since I just taught them combat skill but not any Sith philosophy! Rule of Two is still followed!" And if you have the power to Force-choke anybody who would call you out on your bullshit, by Sith logic you are right.

Darth Krayt's Rule of One was "there is only Sith: the Sith Empire", and all Sith were expected to serve the needs of the Empire. Spirits of ancient Sith lords absolutely hated Krayt and called him a poser, since the idea of Sith putting aside their personal ambitions to serve the greater good of the Empire is antithetical to everything the Sith should stand for. The Guy who was leading the Dark Brotherhood during Darth Bane's time was doing basically the same thing, and Bane hated it since it basically made the Sith into just an alingnment-swapped version of the Jedi order, so he engineered for him to get himself and all the other false Sith blown up and made up the Rule of Two to prevent further bullshit like that.

>>98023395
Find a new group/referee.
Have you tried not playing Star Wars D20?
Play a better game.
Rewrite what you don't like.
Rule 0.
You can make your games how you want.

>>98023395
>space fantasy setting created by one dude with no oversight or rewrites is inconsistent and filed with illogical unfinished concepts
SHOCKER

>>98023395
It's almost as if it's actually very realistic, with different people having different viewpoints and motivations and interpretations.

The Jedi make less sense than the Sith, because they're supposed to be the establishment, but there's fewer of them than there are planets in the galaxy, and we're supposed to believe they're both galaxy-scale shakers and movers but also can be destroyed in a single decapitation strike.
Order 69 is like thinking that the influence of world jewry would magically vanish if the USG rounded up and executed every AIPAC official.

>>98024542
Order 66 obv, my fingers are moving on their own.

>>98023395
They make the most sense in a loose confederacy where each individual Sith lord is permitted to fuck off and do what they want, only banding together when a sufficiently powerful emperor/warlord forces them to.

>>98023395
>Rule of Two
>If at any moment across the centuries your pair of Siths die, it's the end of the Siths.
>Supposed to make Siths stronger but most Sith students kill their Master through assassination and treachery rather than overpowering them.

What kind of fucking idiot came up with that rule.

>>98025006
Well, it seems to have worked pretty fucking well, in that it made the Sith such masters of subversion and treachery that Sheevy P. successfully conquered the entire galaxy just be being a sneaky bastard.

>>98023395
It had a cool notion behind it but it was ultimately too restrictive to canon. Still, these restrictions wouldn't be nearly so suffocating if canon wasn't so dead set on not introducing new force traditions.

>>98023395
>>Rule of Two
>>Inquisitors exist (Sith in all except the name)
Not real Sith. They're not lords of anything. They're Palpatine's lackeys. They're soldiers.
>>Rule of One
>>multiple Sith Lords exist
All of them submitting to one. Which is the idea of the rule.
>>"No, anon, you can't have cool evil demi-gods."
>>"You must suffer le edgy groomed since childhood sad angry space-wizard."
Yes. Go play in a different setting if you want the Sith to be simply unambiguously cool. They're a bunch of maladjusted assholes who couldn't hack it as Jedi and are still seething about them literal thousands of years later. That's what they are.

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>>98023395
>I don't understand the Baneite Sith
Child

>>98023518
>how other Dark Side cults are apparently super okay with the Sith being incompetent twats
The last non-Sith Darksider cult that tried to challenge the Sith got wiped out wholesale as an institution. The others wisely stay out of sight and mind and manage their own affairs, they don't have a religious imperative to destroy the Jedi baked into their systems anyway.

>>98023395
Traditional games?

>>98023395
It's helpful to perceive the force as having a will of its own. It's possible that the "destiny" described by some force users is simply the force manifesting a will through them.

During the Bane/Rule of 2 time, the Sith were exceptionally vulnerable. It made sense for there to be two (for discretion). The Darwinian oroboros survival of the fittest model also works.

>>98024547
Order 6-7.

>>98025006
mostly a case of it was stated in a movie so they had to roll with it and just stated it just worked because movies is what everything else is based around

>>98025034
this, Old Sith Empire imploded and died in a ditch, and every attempt to emulate it died too.
Meanwhile, Sith following Bane's philosophy went on to do the one thing the rest couldn't: destroy the Jedi Order and topple the Republic. That the chosen one killed his sith master and fully cleared the board so that the galaxy had a fresh start to balance out to is irrelevant.

>>98023395
I think you're lost. The gay faggot mouseslave board is two doors down.
>>>/tv/

>>98026299
It should say something that the Sith were extremely successful when working from the shadows to infiltrate the Republic and slowly engineer its destruction, but once Palpatine formed his empire it took him less than 20 years to run the whole thing into ground, because it turns out oppressing your subjects in order to extract resources for building massive warships and planet-destroying superweapons for the sole purpose of further oppressing your own subjects is going to incite rebellion.
Sith empires (which the Galactic Empire was even if Palps wasn't publicly stating it) never work, no matter how many times it's been tried. Sith are great at scheming their way to power, but inevitably self-destruct once they actually achieve that power.

>>98025006
The point was that if Jedi (who were greater in number) found out the sith still existed, they'd send everyone to kill them, so they had to keep their numbers low. The dark side of the force also benefits from being used by as little as number of people as possible, so a master and an apprentice to ensure the line would continue as long as they went undetected, The final step was that the apprentice would eventually overcome the master in power, ensuring that each generation would be stronger so that whenever they decided to reveal themselves, they could defeat the Jedi despite their numbers.
Palpatine though the rule of two of more as a guideline though, and his actions worked out, killing nearly all Jedi and only failed because of a last minute betrayal from his apprentice (which he should've expected considering the rule of two dictates he should do so), but then died, ending the line of the Sith.

>>98023395
>Inquisitors exist
Not Sith. Using the dark side is not what makes someone Sith, any more than having the Force makes them a Jedi.
>is to purposefully violate the rules
Actually killing their master to replace them very much is in the rules, it's the master's job to innovate and always have more to teach, the apprentice's job is to kill their master only when they're fully tapped out.

>>98023518
Ask the Nightsisters how that went. If you can find one. Because the Sith killed them off.

>>98024040
Except none of that is true.

>>98024542
>there's fewer of them than there are planets in the galaxy
Yup. Because they can afford to be picky and just not train every possible person, they reject people whom they feel are at too great a risk of falling to the dark side. That almost happened with Anakin, the Jedi nearly rejected him because they hadn't been in control of his formative years, they didn't know what was lurking in his brain, training someone like that and making them more powerful is a considerable gamble. What tipped them over was the fact he had so much natural talent that he'd end up a problem anyway, but he'd be self taught and had a 99% chance of using the dark side if left to his own devices, because that's how the dark side works. It responds to strong emotions, making those emotions addictive, like a feedback loop. High strength+no training=someone that is at their most powerful when they're being as impulsive as possible. That is extremely dangerous.

>>98025006
>kill their Master through assassination and treachery
Sounds like the master was caught lacking and needed to go. Git gud, scrub

>>98024040
As opposed to movies, series and settings made by rooms full of retards that have zero talent, should never be hired by anyone, and always consistently produce the most idiotic and non sensical stories possible.

Shitty leftist bait. I would ask you to do better but you are the bottom of society and the scum of humanity, so it is impossible.

>>98023395
which game?

>>98025006
>What kind of fucking idiot came up with that rule.
One whose formative years was spent as a quasi slave miner before being swept off into the most stable Sith group's academy. Who when there he was bullied into becoming a loner school shooter that overestimated how smart he actually was.

>>98023395
I have no clue how people try to justify sith inquisitors because it very obviously goes against the point of the rule of two(eliminating competition) but its also kind of unfair to use it as an excuse the sith are silly since it was bullshit added after the fact to justify the needs of specific EU projects. Sith inquisitors exist because people thought only having palpy and vader was boring, that's it, they didn't exist in the movies and paply absolutely would not have approved raising an army of potential apprentices for vader to train and who quite frankly have enough training to start taking apprentices themselves sith ideology or not.
This is less an issue with the lore and more an issue with people who just take the vast majority of extended media as cannon without thinking about how things contradict(and the writers doing that in the first place but that's expected) its an issue with all big franchises that have a plethora of random authors and creators really.

>>98026544
I think it makes perfect sense, yeah. Holding onto power and gaining power are two different skillsets. The Rule of Two is hones the second skillset continuously but it does nothing for the first.

>>98031285
There is no problem with the Sith Inquisitors because Palpatine obviously never gave a fuck about the Rule of Two, because he won.

The point of the Rule of Two was to reach the power to overthrow the Jedi and take over. Palpatine did that, so now what's the point of the Rule? Its purpose was accomplished. Now he has to do something different, he has to cement his powerbase, and so he starts training Dark Side users to enforce his will. None of the concerns that created the Rule of Two are relevant- there is no need for secrecy or evading the Jedi. There is no need for apprentices. The goal has been achieved, now we move on.

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>>98031305
>The Rule of Two is hones the second skillset continuously but it does nothing for the first.
The first should be doing what Bane, Plagueis, and Sidious all did: seek even more power. Resting on your laurels isn't what being Sith is about, be you Master or Apprentice.

>>98031315
That's not holding onto power, that's getting more power. The Sith hone themselves continuously and are good at that, but holding onto your power isn't about that. Palpatine kept getting more powerful through his entire career as Emperor but that very same ascension made him the enemies that overthrew him. The same behaviours that make a Sith powerful ensure everyone will hate them.

>>98031305
>>98031311
Idk if you're the same anon or not but that makes no sense. The rule of two is EXPRESSLY for holding power not obtaining it. The point is that you only have a master and his apprentice so that there are no rival sith who can come and try to take your place as top dawg, thats why palpy wanted to exterminate remaining force users in the first place so only he and vader even knew about such power.

>>98025915
>Chad OG Darth Bane
>pic unrelated

>>98026544
He was really close to winning, it took some chosen one shenanigans to beat him.
If the Sith really are so knowledgeable then he should have known the Force would never have let him wipe the light side off the board. Maybe he could have kept some around as controlled opposition or something.

>>98031332
>The rule of two is EXPRESSLY for holding power not obtaining it.
No it isn't. The point of the Rule of Two is to increase the power of the Sith by continuous refinement from master to apprentice over the generations, to eventually work up to the task of taking over the galaxy. Palpatine did that.

Then, the task is over, and now you have to HOLD onto the power you obtained, which Palpatine couldn't do, because the Rule of Two does not fix the problems of the Sith that make everyone hate them like the insane powertripping, the pointless sadism and the endless personal feuds.

So Palpatine, and the Sith as a broader rule, are great at acquiring power, but when they're finished with acquiring that power they can't hold onto it and collapse, because they suck ass and become public enemy number one somewhere along the way.

>>98031355
>great at working from the shadows but so obnoxious that they get kicked out whenever they reveal their power level
George, cool it.

>>98031285
The original EU also has Hands of the Emperor, and I'm pretty sure the term Inquisitor got used there as well, even if it wasn't supposed to be a whole order of totally-not-Sith. The Hands were also just Force-sensitives that had been trained as spies and assassins, rather than people running around with red lightsabers. I don't think they even had lightsabers.

>>98023478
>it's a religion specifically about being chaotic evil.
WRONG. Adas, Marka Ragnos, Ajunta Pall, Darth Marr, etc. proves you wrong.

Sith just suffer from bad-writing, like the rest of the Star Wars lore.

>>98027948
>only failed because of a last minute betrayal from his apprentice
Ironically choosing to betray the Sith for completely selfish, emotional might be the most Sith thing any Sith has ever done.
>Noo, you have to care about power
>You don't get to tell me what I care about nerd and I care about my son
I can only imagine the ghosts of the Banite Sith slapping foreheads and screaming into the void while the most ancient Sith, those who just wanted to use their power selfishly, were screaming "Finally, one of them isn't a retard, after all these aeons he just does the shit he wants to do, that's my fucking boy."

>>98031315
Let me put it in a metaphor for you.
The Rule of Two is a method of acquiring as much water as possible, you turn on all the taps, divert rivers, drain water towers, eventually working up to comical supervillainesq shenannigans of sucking up entire lakes or becoming a governor of California.

What no Sith has ever done or considered though is where to store it long term.
They do not retain it, they just pour it directly into the ground round back of their ranch.
Sure the ground gets swampy and so some of it remains, soaked into the earth.
But how much of it is lost because the Sith lack the collective IQ to go buy a bucket?

>>98026544
I will say, Sith empires are never really meant to succeed beyond being the powerbase of said Sith in question. They're not trying to build anything beyond their own legacy, and said legacy can live beyond any static kingdom building they do from time to time. If Palpatine had survived to see his empire crumble, he'd have just picked up whatever was left to build off of, smug at the thought of thoroughly ruining what was once the Republic.

That's also why Darth Krayt got treated as a pretender by the ancient Sith ghosts he contacted, because trying to center Sith philosophy around serving the empire above all else was completely antithetical to what a Sith is all about. A kingdom to rule is just one of a multitude of parts to power, not something to chain yourself to.

>>98032353
There were definitely Baneites who were just as smug, because in the end Darth Vader was the truest of all Sith, he destroyed the entire Jedi order and destroyed his master at the moment of his greatest triumph all for Vader's own selfish reasons pertaining to what he values.
I mean, Sidious was definitely seething, but Vader truly was the living proof that Bane's philosophy worked, at least by the crazy logic of a Sith.

>>98032371
>What no Sith has ever done or considered though is where to store it long term
Plagueis considered it to a fault. His entire focus was on never dying; had he succeeded, the power he possessed would never have been relinquished. Mortality is the hole at the bottom of the Sith power container.

>>98026544
>for the sole purpose of further oppressing your own subjects

You don't understand! He was just preparing to fight the Yuuzhan Vong!

>>98026460
>mouseslave
you can like star wars without touching anything disney related

>>98033325
That argument was brought up by a former Imperial in the NJO books, and Han Solo replied to him with something along the lines of "You know what the Empire would have done? They'd have spent trillions of credits building a Vong-killing battle station and called it the Sun Devastator or Nova Colossus or the Nostril of Palpatine, and then in the very first battle it would have gotten blown up because they forgot to weld some hatch shut or something. Because that's what happens literally every time the Empire tries to build a superweapon ".

>>98037797
Keep funding and promoting Didney's slop for them, slave. At least you're only consooming the Classic™ flavored slop!

>>98037895
>Keep funding and promoting Didney's
You can like Star Wars without touching anything Disney related
Rub those two brain cells together to understand what I mean. Half of you people sound like zoomers who don't remember things before 2009.

>>98032633
It really isn't. Even if you become ageless and infinitely capable of resurrecting yourself from the dead, like Plagueis wanted to be, if you're still an insane evil psychopath like the rest of the Sith what will happen is that everyone will gang up on you and then hack your brain to pieces so you live forever as a vegetable. The thing that makes Sith lose power isn't mortality it's the fact that the Sith suck shit and everyone hates the Sith, including the Sith themselves. Absolutely no Sith Lord of note died of old age. They always just got in an idiotic power struggle or got stabbed by a Jedi or whatever. If they were all immortal, all that would change is that they'd stuff each other in cement for their moronic feuds and Jedi would stab them through the brain.

>>98023395
It does in internal reasoning, you are just stupid.