Spelljammer has always been one of those invocative and nostalgic settings for me. Back in the day, it intrigued me and made me grab the war captains boxed before I even had the core. D&D, in space? Fuck yes. Sometimes it was goofy, sometimes it was glorious, but it was always a good time.So what do you like about spelljammer? What has been your experience with it? What monsters or ships do you like best?
I've actually run a couple of AD&D and one 5e Spelljammer adventures, and the biggest thing I've had to come to terms with is that I think Spelljammer is harder for players to get into than a lot of other settings, including Planescape or Dark Sun.No, I don't mean Spelljammer has bigger ideas or views or becomes philosophers with clubs or whatever, I mean I find that player expectations have to be some of the most clarified in a Spelljammer game.I love my retro sci-fi Flash Gordon style adventures so my games were based around landing on weird planets explore them, find encounters, make alliances with the locals, take big risks for big rewards- Or you can just, fly away from it. Crash land the party on a planet and make them survive there for an indefinite amount of time? That's no longer Spelljammer. The moment they have a ship and can just leave behind whatever it is they don't want to deal with? Easily done. Heck, what's to stop players from using their ship to just fly above encounters and artillery strike targets? That's not to say it shouldn't be done, but what exactly is the "thrust" of Spelljammer?As I DM'ed more Spelljammer, I realized part of it was truly my fault- I hadn't set the expectations of Spelljammer to my players in a way that makes it "Spelljammer". The players have to absolutely buy into playing, "Space Pirates", or "Star Trek", or "Guide yourself for your own goals/adventures". You'll figure out whether a Spelljammer game will work in the long run in the first couple of sessions really quickly.And that's the next catch, Spelljammer really doesn't have a foundational identity- the first published Spelljammer adventure has the town hold the PCs at gun point to go into space or else there's no adventure. This is the same mistake 5e Spelljammer's adventure makes. It's a weird setting that I love but I can see why it failed in its initial release and its re-release.
I'm currently running a 5e Spelljammer campaign, but I had a look at the old Monster Manuals for inspiration.You can absolutely pinpoint the mid 90s influences for some of the creatures. The Yitsan, for example, is just the Xenomorph with enough differences to avoid copyright infringement.The burgeoning Anime scene of the time also makes its mark, in particular Bio-Booster Armour Guyver (Bionoids) and giant insect mecha (Spirit Warriors).
>>98027699I agree, it has no real central plot or conflict. It's a big ol sandbox at times. The GM and players need to be on the same page with ideas and theme.It's not much different than any sci-fi where you have a ship. You need to get them in a mess of issues they can't just fly away from.
>>98027763Oh yeah, it's in there for sure. Stealing ideas from media is a time honored RPG tradition. There are some fun, goofy and creepy things in those books
>>98027699>the first published Spelljammer adventure has the town hold the PCs at gun point to go into space or else there's no adventure.Looking for a fast travel option, but getting shanghai'd instead is the most historically accurate way for people to get onto adventures on boats.Alternatively, the boat can just crash.
>>98027502Inferior planescape.
>>98027502Personally I love it because I get to mix Sci-fi tropes with DnD magic & fantasy adventures. I do agree with >>98027699, >>98027766, where the whole thing is basically just a anachronistic sandbox, but it's also the perfect excuse to make your own homebrew setting that include/mixes-together stuff from all the different official worlds & non-DnD media that you and your players love. Also, cannons. No one uses ballistas, catapults, etc. in my setting. All the Spelljammers are armed with either gunpowder or magical cannons because cannons are awesome, and I personally don't think it makes sense for any civilization that can build all manner of crazy flying interstellar ships to be stuck with basic ballistas and catapults.
>>98027946In what respect?
>>98028197>> Also, cannons. No one uses ballistas, catapults, etc. in my setting. All the Spelljammers are armed with either gunpowder or magical cannons because cannons are awesome, and I personally don't think it makes sense for any civilization that can build all manner of crazy flying interstellar ships to be stuck with basic ballistas and catapults.Yarr, this be the way
>>98027502Oh hey. We're playing it right now. Session starts in 3 hours and 19 minutes. We're playing 5e 'cuz my players wanted to, unfortunately. But I preserve 2e cosmology and ship-to-ship combat rules. I would post my rules summary but it's a .pdf and 4chan doesn't like them, any more. So I guess I'll just post the page that has the conversion/changes.>>98027699>I find that player expectations have to be some of the most clarified in a Spelljammer gameRun Astromundi and you'll solve that problem pretty simply.>>98027766>it has no real central plot or conflictAgain I recommend Astromundi. The central conflict is that the Sun Mages occupy the inner ring and most-powerful empire. They use shadowstone to reflect Firefall (primary sun's) energy back at it and something something, they're more powerful. The next rin of worlds is occupied by the Illithid, who obviously hate the sun mages. And they're trying to destroy the sun to create an underdark sphere. Oh and the sun mage's shadowstone mirrors? They're threatening to make Firefall explode. All of this is being orchestrated by the Arcane, who made a deal w/ the Tinar'ri to blow up the sun, which will create a portal into the Abyss, thereby giving the Demons a foothold within the Prime Material. Naturally, therefore, the Devils are also around and willing to work even with good-aligned folk to save the sphere's sun from exploding not out of altruism, but self-interest. So you've got Illithid versus Human, and Demon versus Devil, with lots of exciting alliances in between.But if you're not into that? Then there are two other major, stock plotlines in Spelljammer: the Inhuman Wars and The Spelljammer itself. Either of which presents a campaign ready to go.>>98028197>>98028359Just use 2e's rules. Cannons and guns are available.
>>98028990And just because I'm very self-satisfied w/ it, here's my map of Astromundi, which is much, much easier to read and comprehend than the sphere's map that comes w/ the box set.
>>98028990Dude that conversation seems soild. W ity you can't share the PDF. All also look into those adventures. Back in the day I didn't really buy the mods
>>98029013Thanks. If you're interested you're welcome to it, here: https://files.catbox.moe/kqxpm3.pdfThe first 4 pages are a summary of Astromundi and all canonical information (except the last paragraph on page 1). Everything after page 4 is my own cluster of little worlds that aren't actually found in Astromundi. I've thrown it into Calidian free space as a microcosm and kinda home-base as my players galavant about the sphere.Our campaign is directly just a rip off of the Pirates of Dark Water, unabashadly. The players get a ship, are chased by someone like Bloth, we've got "Red Space" instead of "Dark Water" as the Abyss starts materializing bit by bit. And they're out to find the Thirteen Treasures of the Twilight Expanse, which they're directed to by a magical golden compass enchanted by Tradifos.
>>98029029D&D and RPGs as a whole have a proud tradition of shamelessly ripping stuff off. And pirates are dark water is an excellent source material.Thanks for the PDF, I'll look it over.
>>98029041>D&D and RPGs as a whole have a proud tradition of shamelessly ripping stuff off.For sure. Shame is for pussies.
>>98027766>You need to get them in a mess of issues they can't just fly away from.Or targets that they need to fly towards. I'm a bit of a fan of the "Hunt for the Spelljammer" campaign path. I've played around with the idea of starting out one character with an Ultimate Helm (and having it function as a Warlock pact) and giving them a Smalljammer which will gradually grow and "level up" through out the campaign.>>98029041Not the poster, but I've also given thoughts to adding more Anime inspired factions:>A Macross inspired magitek warforged faction with transforming robot ships supported by pop idol bards.>A Tenchi Muyo inspired high magic imperial Japan with ships helmed by space tree dryads.>A Outlaw Star inspired multi-race faction with golem ships that fight in melee and have spell gun using wizards.
>>98029029>Our campaign is directly just a rip off of the Pirates of Dark Water, unabashadly. The players get a ship, are chased by someone like Bloth, we've got "Red Space" instead of "Dark Water" as the Abyss starts materializing bit by bit. And they're out to find the Thirteen Treasures of the Twilight Expanse, which they're directed to by a magical golden compass enchanted by Tradifos.Based.
>>98029029>Our campaign is directly just a rip off of the Pirates of Dark Water, unabashadly.I think Spelljammer is remarkably dumb except for the neat take on Greek astronomy, but this does sound like a lot of fun.
>>98029180I need to hunt all those down. I am currently running a sci-fi game, so can't go to spelljammer next, but damn I have been wanting to run it lately
>>98029180Replying to you only cause you're the last to talk about my main topic of the players running away from targets.And yeah, this is definitely a lesson I learned as I DM'ed more Spelljammer. The ultimate sandbox freeflowing adventure style of Spelljammer really has to have certain players in mind. Like, I can cite examples and stories from my players, but I'm willing to bet the concluding commentary for most stories I'd relate would be something on the lines of, "Okay so that's clearly on the players or you the DM, and not a fault of Spelljammer itself". Which I think is absolutely true, but Spelljammer still bears that issue of, "Anything can happen in space" which is a fantastic sandbox idea, but also so bloody infinite. Also just to be clear I really do regret not just running Astro Mundi like it was suggested earlier in the thread. That really would have solved so many things and made the experience a lot smoother.A question I want to ask the thread, something else I didn't realize about Spelljammer itself until I encountered it, I houseruled the cost of Spelljamming Helms to be cheaper because RAW, if and when players captured ships, they'd be able to make hundreds of thousands of gold because of the cost of a Spelljamming Helm. Why go on a pirate adventure when technically you can shanghai one enemy ship, steal the helm, and be set for life for an item that's supposed to be common enough for pirates to be able to get their hands on? Did this ever come up for all of y'all and how did you fix it?
>>98029180>>98029076>>98029041>>98029029What's some other media that would be good to "borrow" for a Spelljammer campaign?The last time I ran it I tried to do an adventure based off Mass Effect 1, but I had to cut it short drastically because of IRL stuff.>>98030131>Why go on a pirate adventure when technically you can shanghai one enemy ship, steal the helm, and be set for life for an item that's supposed to be common enough for pirates to be able to get their hands on?I haven't had this happen yet, but given how common Spelljammers are in my setting, I think I'd just rule that the helms are far less valuable than RAW and also that there's a fuckton of really expensive shit the players could buy if they ever do get a bunch of money. That or just have their games set in a location where they can't get more money than I'm prepared for them to have, or make it so the things they want to buy simply aren't available. Boring yeh, but that's usually the best solution.
>>98030131Yeah, it seems like the wrong direction with the 5e one, but how were you supposed to know that going in. I think converting the old stuff is an excellent way to go honestly.I agree with you on the helms, IIRC arcane sell them. They sell the living fuck out of them. I don't see why they are so damned costly. The setting shows so many ships, which you need for commerce, but then make the helm worth more than a warship. Also the important question, are y'all having fun with it?
>>98030239You could steal pirates of the Caribbean lol. Almost any sci-fi show or Star wars plot could work honestly. I don't watch much tv, so I am honestly a bad person to ask. Firefly may be some fun inspiration. Oh or farscape, that one might fit damned well. A bunch of escaped prisoners, on a stolen, living ship, running from an empire. Yeah that sounds like spelljammer
>>98030317Oh absolutely having a blast. Not a question there. It's more that I've played and DM'ed a bunch of other settings, and even other systems. Spelljammer threw my players and I for a loop. I know how I'd fix things/improve on my next Spelljammer escapades in the future.>>98030239Spelljammer's based on so many of those old pulp fiction sci-fi comics and the like I sometimes forget that it's also got its Guyver anime references and inspiration.Honestly, maybe look at the 80's anime/mangas, like Area 88, or even some Gundam references because Spelljammer's bio-mechs Spirit Warriors made by the space elves with some light Power Ranges/Kamen ideas. There's a really good adventure you can make by utilizing the outcast Bionoid suits, the Spirit Warriors mechs and have the Scro's return with their Space Faring Witchlight Marauders. Hell, Space Pirate Captain Harlock and Galaxy Express 999 are some good inspirations as well I think. I only focused on these anime ones just because I didn't want to beat the horse of Star Trek, Dune, Star Wars, etc and so forth.
>>98030390>>absolutely having a blast. Not a question there. It's more that I've played and DM'ed a bunch of other settings, and even other systems. Spelljammer threw my players and I for a loop. I know how I'd fix things/improve on my next Spelljammer escapades in the futureThat is the important part. I ran a magic school game and it kinda went off the rails as no one was quite sure what to do. Sometimes we learn from those rough games man
Something I just ran across. Here is a free OSE conversation. I personally am not a fan of race as class, it for the OSE fans, here ya go https://lixu-gaming.itch.io/ose-spelljammer-conversion
>>98030131>>98030239>>98030317Yeah, Spelljammer does have an economic issue where the helms are overcosted for Spelljamming cultures. The gold value works better if that is the cost for a non-spelljamming culture to develop or buy. I could imagine a king or wizard in a non-spelljamming society spending 100k to 250k to develop a magic ship that can fly in space.
>>98030778 I could understand that cost, look at Mystaras airships, good gods! But yeah they need adjusted. Hell with the whole universe as your playground magic items could be cheap.Someone has to be able to make some easier and cheaper and then all you need is a good merchant network and trade routes and BAM! You own those markets.
>>98027502The original Spelljammer setting was awesome, it just broke down when you thought about it granually. The ideas about Scro and Arcane and the Elvish High Command, for example.The 5E reboot is just a sad zombie in comparison. Odds are we'll never actually see the namesake ship in an official release, too many streamers who don't know shit about the original setting would have fits about the charm atmosphere and call it the Mind Raping Manta Ray or some bullshit like that.
>>98030801>Someone has to be able to make some easier and cheaper and then all you need is a good merchant network and trade routes and BAM! You own those markets.Maybe the Arcane are secretly bribing, intimidating, or killing off all their competition so they can keep the price of Helms artificially inflated?
>>98030239Star Trek, obviously. Just do Star Trek. I wanted to run either Stars Without Number in a sector we built together, Spelljammer or Star Trek Adventures. My table settled on Spelljammer. But, as is always the case, as soon as we get two months into one game, I can't stop thinking about how much I wanna run something else. So I'm working on my Star Trek campaign when I should be working on Spelljammer. But we just wrapped up for the evening and my players are a buncha dumbasses who decided to pick a fight w/ the Dwarvern Armada over salvage rights, because they're ornery.>Why go on a pirate adventure when technically you can shanghai one enemy ship, steal the helm, and be set for life for an item that's supposed to be common enough for pirates to be able to get their hands on? Did this ever come up for all of y'all and how did you fix it?My answer isn't much help to you, but my players are navigating this exact situation right now. They were paid to salvage a ship that was overrun. The Dwarvern Armada came up and said "fuck off, ours. Here we'll give you 3k to fuck off." Players said "nope," and the Dwarves said "fine, sail back to the nearby port and let the magistrate sort out who it belongs to or we'll blow your asses up," so the players are heading back w/ the ship in tow to try to prove they aren't pirates. That's where our session ended. So yeah my solutions is: politics and piracy laws. Which works great in Astromundi but isn't a lot of help if you're not in a Spelljammer-heavy setting w/ lots of factions around.
>>98030884>it just broke down when you thought about it granually.I really don't see this problem. I think that the problems brought up in this thread mostly have solutions. The most important of which is: there's always a bigger fish. If you fuck around bad enough to draw the attention of the Elven Armada, you're toast. Include factions as a moderating influence on player behavior and it works just fine.
>>98029029>pirates of dark water source materialIncredibly based, shame the show never got to finish
>>98030884Fair, but it has so many fun ideas in it. And to be fair, it is kinda a mind raping manta ray >>98030920Even that breaks down, d&d sucks with economies, but there is no way for most captains to get 100k togather for a minior helm and then buy a ship on top of that. The smaller ships are like what 10k, with a 100 k helm?
>>98030928>but isn't a lot of help if you're not in a Spelljammer-heavy setting w/ lots of factions around.I've recently realized that pretty much all sci-fi greatly benefits from having a bunch of different factions in a setting that can work together or compete against each other. Especially in stories like Mass Effect, The Expanse, Guardians of the Galaxy, Star Trek, etc. Like in your example, just having a semi-powerful private company that can act as an antagonist for a group of newbie PCs is really fun and always a nice break from all the apocalyptic threats, ancient aliens, or evil empires that always appear in space operas.>>98030963>d&d sucks with economiesTrue. But people in Spelljammer should also be able to mine asteroids for infinite easily-accessible resources yeah? Maybe that's also why everything is so expensive?
>>98031014>> But people in Spelljammer should also be able to mine asteroids for infinite easily-accessible resources yeah?Wild space isn't empty and those are full of monsters, some that can easy the ship. That is a risk few without a dwarven cathedral will take
>>98031014To add on to my thoughts from the first part of the post. Spelljammer has plenty of factions to use to keep the setting interesting and serve as rival/antagonists/obstacles/etc. for players. Strongest Empires [Multi-sphere]>Illithid Empire [At Peak]>Vlaketh's Githyanki Empire (Astral Plane)>Elven Imperial Navy>Vodoni Empire >Astral Elf/Xaryian EmpireStrongest Groups [Multi-sphere]>Mindflayer Colonies >Githyanki Raiders (Astral Plane) and Pirates of Gith (Wildspace) >Beholder Nations >Unhumans/Goblinoid Fleets>Neogi Slavers>Giff Mercenaries>Psurlon Raiders Special [Multi-sphere]>The Arcane>The Reigar >DragonsStrongest Empires [Single-sphere]>Antilian Empire (Clusterspace/Astromundi)>Astromundi Mindflayers (Clusterspace/Astromundi)>Thoric Nation (Clusterspace/Astromundi)>Caldians States (Clusterspace/Astromundi)>Argonessa (Siberspace/Eberron)>Bearland (Siberspace/Eberron)>Cyre (Siberspace/Eberron)>Spider Moon Elves (Spiderspace/Spider Moon Adventure) >Spider Moon Humans (Spiderspace/Spider Moon Adventure) >Spider Moon Mindflayers (Spiderspace/Spider Moon Adventure)>Spider Moon Drow (Spiderspace/Spider Moon Adventure) >Lords' Alliance/Sword Coast (Realmspace)>Wa (Realmspace)>Evermeet (Realmspace)>Thay (Realmspace)>Netheril (Realmspace)
>>98028999THANK YOU for posting this. I have the smaller version, and it's really hard to read and pixelated.There's another thing I'm looking for. You wouldn't happen to have a map of the planes of MtG would you? A picture exists out there, but there's just a pixelated, distant picture of it.
>>98031096I dont, sorry. I didn't make any MtG maps.
>>98031124I found the bad quality one that I found. A few years ago gave me an idea to run a Spalljammer campaign in the MTG universe, and I thought it would be cool.That being said, thanks again for upscaling the other one. The one from the book is useless and hard to read.
>>98031240No worries. I didnt upscale anything... it is my map. I made it in i karnate. It is not from WotC or TSR--it's from me :)
>>98029029I might steal this idea. I'd change it to make it my own. My most popular campaign was stolen from someone on here who suggested.>Detective agency in SigilWhich was another idea I found genuinely interesting and fun.
>>98032289Go for it. It makes a good game. Here's how I've got it all set up, if you'd like it:- The Bloth analogue is a huge Antilan Crystal Ship. It's not supposed to be operating in Calidian Free Space as a military vessel. So it doesn't attack outright. What it does, instead, is send out rafts of feral goblins to other ships after disabling their pilots. The goblins invade and are left to starve to death on the ship they attack. All that anyone finds is a ghost ship overrun by feral space goblins. No obvious sign of Antilan attack.- The Arcane are obviously the ones telling the Antilans where to go, to collect the 13 treasures, to complete their great artifact that will unlock the sun's ultimate power (which will blow it up).- The Ilithids also think the treasures can be used to create the Sunslayer, so they want the objects, too, to explicitly blow up the sun. The Arcane are backing the Antilans but don't mind at all if the Ilithid get there first. Sun blows up either way.- The compass is from Tradifos--Cluster Space Calidian god of safe travel. Upon discovering the compass, the players have to travel to Constellation Tradifos (a giant tower crawling along the inside of the crystal sphere) and speak directly to Tradifos' avatar (a Contemplator) to get the compass attuned to them and get entrusted w/ the mission.- Red Space are pockets of Abyss Air. They're found throughout the sphere and, when they touch a ship or planetoid's air, they start to foul it. Everything gets covered in red dust and the air smells of sulphur. Smaller worlds/ships will get choked out by the dust, but bigger worlds will just see their land become unproductive. Players can learn to use the compass to clear red space.And I call it The Treasures of the Twilight Expanse.
>>98031035This is an excellent list. Thanks for taking time to compile it.
>>98027502>So what do you like about spelljammer?Never played it, most likely never will, but I like the fact that it's not a scifi setting that has swords and dragons in it (which everybody does and is tired at this point), but a strictly fantasy setting that simply has space travel in it. Not a single thing about its spaceships or space travel makes any sense from a physics standpoint. And that is good. It keeps people in the right mindset.
>>98032712That is a good observation,bthe while thing never lets you forget it's fantasy. Stars are just reflections in the crystal spheres, that bob in the endless gas like Phlogiston. Gravity is ...not scientific and your very ship carries air with it.It does keep hitting you in the face with fantasy
>>98031035>>Astral Elf/Xaryian EmpireBlasphemy. Fuck 5e's idiotic placement of Spelljamming on the Astral Plane. It sucks and is dumb and "Astral Elves" do not exist. 2e Cosmology must be defended against the heretics.I take lots of issue w/ this map. For one thing: Mystara is absolutely not in the same universe as 2e. It just isn't. It doesn't work. Pic related is the only official map of the spheres.
>>98032878What stops Mystara from being in the same universe? The planes set up?
>>98032891Yeah it exists in the Basic universe, which follows an entirely different cosmology than the Great Wheel.
>>98032910To be honest, I don't recall anything in SJ that demands the great wheel. It's been a while since I read the core setting though
>>98032934>To be honest, I don't recall anything in SJ that demands the great wheel.I'm not sure what that means. Spelljamming takes place on the Prime Material Plane that is part and parcel of the Great Wheel cosmology of the AD&D universe.
>>98032967Prime Material Plane is just a simple way of saying "this is where planets are that are not planes" hell Athas is there and it has a different planes set up.
>>98032990>Prime Material Plane is just a simple way of saying "this is where planets are that are not planes"No it isn't. It's part of the Great Wheel cosmology. The Prime Material is one of the pieces of that. The Prime Material isn't a thing in isolation. You could rip it outa the great wheel, but you'd fuck up a bazillion details that rely on the fact that it's part of the Great Wheel. It's not a thing in isolation from the rest of the universe. Hell, many primary stars are just portals to the inner planes. You'd have to patch a bazillion countless points of connection between the Prime Material and the rest of the universe that is inherently a part of.And PS: no, Dark Sun doesn't have a different planar set up. It exists within the Great Wheel and its bizarre collection of nestled planes are absolutely accounted for.
>>98033036I don't really agree there, but fair enough.
>>98033124I'm not saying you can't do it. Obviously you can; 5e did. And to that I say "boo, hiss." I'm just saying it's all one universe and it's rad and we should promulgate it far and wide.You could propose an alternate reality where the Solar System is in the Andromeda Galaxy instead of the Milky Way. And we could all get on board with that. But if we're generically talking about the Solar System, we're talking about the one in the Milky Way, because that's where it is. It doesn't "demand" that you can't propose a fictional, alternate reality where that isn't the case. It's just the case that you gotta start w/ "and I'm proposing we move it to a completely different universe" and then we all have to buy into that. By default, Spelljamming is on the Prime Material, which is part of the Great Wheel. But just like moving the Solar System in the Andromenda would fuck up a buncha details if we delved deep enough into "how does the stellar motion work?" you'd fuck up a buncha details of Spelljammer if you moved it outa the Great Wheel. Which can all be patched and handwaved without any particular difficulty. But you shouldn't do it, because the Great Wheel is rad and that's where Spelljamming happens. Why mess with a rad thing?
>>98028197I tend to go with magical Accelerators since they're already part of the setting.Magical railguns powered by the helm itself, no fire so no boom in the phlogiston.Just make them scalable and say you can have a battery of them on the ship
>>98032386Thanks anon
>>98033162I see your point man, I am just on the "eh I don't see an issue" scale. I can totally get that to you is a big deal and that's fair.That being said, The more we talk the more I am thinking about it and the more I agree with you. Thier airships are, very different from spelljammers. And the more things you see the more that doesn't quite fit>>98034007Don't those take off the occasional hand and are very expensive ?
>>98034084>I am just on the "eh I don't see an issue" scale.That's completely fair. I'm trying to convert you to "hell yeah Great Wheel" more than "explain" anything.
>>98034109I have always liked the great wheel. I came in with 2e so it was always the d&d planer set up to me
>>98034084>Don't those take off the occasional hand and are very expensive ?Yeah, but that's where house ruling comes in.
>>98034232Fair enough. D&D economic stuff often needs house rules. Because shit breaks down fast if you think about it to hard
>>98035130Numbers have never been D&D's strong suit
>>98028990>Everybody wants to blow up the sun, the central conflict is around HOW SOON and HOW FASTHoly shit, all of these people need to be smited.
>>98035153That is true. I recall I once converted every fucking thing in the PHB to silver standard and reworked costs lol.
>>98035378Most of D&D requires at least a bit of reworkingIt's kind of amazing
>>98035196Well to be fair, the sun mages don't KNOW that they're gonna blow up the sun. The Arcane have sold them the reflectors as a "yeah trust us it'll totally just make you stronger" policy. But the Arcane already made the deal w/ the Tinar'ri to sell the Tinar'ri the entire sphere a couple thousand years ago, so the sun's gotta go one way or another, for the Arcane to hold up their end.
>>98035378It really is, I have never been at a table where something wasn't "fixed">>98035678It's all about those long term real estate sales son! They have this nice little six planet system they can sell you, should be ready in a few thousand years. Ya just need to clear out the wild life is all.
Question since the thread is still up; Do y'all obey the RAW sizes and speeds for Spelljammer? Or do you change them to fit your own games?
The Astromundi Cluster should have been the default Spelljammer setting with the Spelljammer and Rock of Braal inside.Not increasingly another FR-adjacent section of the game.5E’s replacement of the crystal spheres with a merging into the Ethereal Plane is the sole good move it made.
>>98037699>The Astromundi Cluster should have been the default Spelljammer setting with the Spelljammer and Rock of Braal inside.Astromundi was released at the tale end of Spelljammer's lifespan. the setting was 4 years old before they realized it needed a "core" setting/locale.>Not increasingly another FR-adjacent section of the game.Kyrnn was the setting pushed the most when Spelljammer was released. >5E’s replacement of the crystal spheres with a merging into the Ethereal Plane is the sole good move it made.That was just copying 4e's attempt to adapt Spelljammer by changing the Astral plane into the Astral Sea with Spelljammers visiting divine islands.
>>98032990There isn't just one Prime Material anon, there are multiple Prime Materials>>98032891Presumably it's on a different Prime Material from AD&D's perspective. In Basic there is a Prime Plane, I don't recall it talking of multiple Primes much but there is some sort of multiverse. There are also Ethereal, Inner, Astral and Outer Planes and other dimensions. There is no Great Wheel as it came to be called in AD&D, the outer planes are just out there in all sorts of strange configurations.Dimensions get weird in the Immortal set and after. Mentzer uses it as it is used in physics for a type of measurable entity but it's also later used for something like a small plane or a pocket universe or an AD&D demi-plane.D&D talks about a multiverse in some way. AD&D talks about a polyverse and there being ways to travel to alternate Primes. There are no spells for doing this directly but plane shift would work with testing but experimentation has been hazardous. The alternate Primes in AD&D read like Stewie and Brian going through the multiverse or some of the less Earth-like Marvel and DC comics and movies. I can't really think of any other work to make a good comparison with at the moment, like they're not like Sliders' parallel universes, they're supposed to be more different.
>>98037758>Astromundi was released at the tale end of Spelljammer's lifespan.Correct.>the setting was 4 years old before they realized it needed a "core" setting/locale.Incorrect. Astromundi, first off, is NOT the core setting. It entirely disconnects the Flow.>Kyrnn was the setting pushed the most when Spelljammer was released.Pffft. That's totally ridiculous. Forgotten Realms was. SJ was a 2e release in the same year 2e came out. Dragonlance wouldn't even get a conversion for 3 more years. The Greybox was published to be a 2e setting w/ it compatible w/ 2e 2 years before 2e even came out, and its publications immediately were released in 2e as opposed to Dragonlance's adventures, which would continue to be published w/ 1e rules but 2e conversion rules until 1992. Fight me!
>>98037699>5E’s replacement of the crystal spheres with a merging into the Ethereal Plane is the sole good move it made.5e merges it into the Astral, not the Ehtereal, and it's awful.
>>98037786>There isn't just one Prime Material anon, there are multiple Prime MaterialsNot in the Great Wheel / 2e Cosmology. The Prime Material is a single plane per both Planescapes and Spelljammer.
>>98037786They were still all part of the same greater universe. Each crystal sphere could have its own rules of how things worked, even how magic or the laws of nature could wildly differ. But they always linked back to the great wheel. Even Athas with its own planer set up, linked back to the great wheel though the elemental planes.Which is why I think you can use it if you want. If Athas can work, it can work. But I also see the argument for why it can't
>>98038364NTA but Dragonlance is all over Spelljammer. It's pretty clear it was a big influence
>>98037699 I really do not like the use of the astral in such a way. It would have been better to make something new or switch the "edge" of the crystal sphere to a threashhold you needed to jump planes
