Biggest hurdle for Warhammer is the models/painting. Literal archives of trademarked 3D models. Units nothing but stat blobs with tags and 1-2 unique effects. Turn phases are just roll dice>compare numbers>roll dice>compare>refer to stat sheet for outcome. Even an outside newfag like me can see that this could be a smash hit if it was buy2play
>>98039263Their entire business model is selling plastic. Why would they sabotage themselves?
>>98039313They clearly have a hard on for licensing shit. Rogue Trader, DOW, books, the upcoming Cavilverse TV series, a goddamn joke trailer for a 40K musical with songs and costumes.
>>98039313Because the real money is in selling merchandise, and to sell merchandise you need recognition. The fact that the GW managers don't understand this only highlights even more that the company is run by a bunch of retards and that the success of an IP is pure, 1000% luck, not the skill of the CEO.
>>98039313They could sell unit microtransactions…
>>98039313WRONG! They also sell metal sometimes.
>>98039382>Because the real money is in selling merchandiseLike models.
>>98039425Absofuckinglutely not I don't want to pay 20 bucks just to pull a 15th chaos battle standard
>>98039263Because most of the fun of 40k is spending the time to build & paint your models and then going and playing 40k on a table with people. If neither of those things appeal to you I don't understand what you want, just go play DoW / Total War / TTS / Batlesector / pace Hulk etc.
>>98039263Why the fuck would they move from a space they absolutely dominate to a space where they're a minor player, have an uphill battle in terms of expected business model, and effectively compete with their own product?
>>98039375Yes, and nothing will replace playing the actual game with the actual miniatures. There is a reason DoW is a RTS, and not a recreation of 40k as a turn based tabletop game.
>>98039450This pretty much. If the modelling aspect is not interesting to you, its glorious times for OP to enjoy pretty much every other aspect: From video games, to novels, to action figures.. There are even bookleg Lego Space Marines.
>>98039440Megaretarded take.
>>98039263Because 40k isn't really that good purely as a game. It's cool because of the minis and because of an opportunity to hang out with other nerds, Remove that and the experience will be really meh and a lengthy one on top of that.If you want to play virtually, you'll have much more fun just playing Down of War or any other game that actually makes good use of the opportunities video games as a medium offer
>>98039563Total War 40k is cutting it really close though
>>98039571>There are even bookleg Lego Space Marines.Authentic are better!
>>98039571>There are even bookleg Lego Space Marines.Ah, Nexo Knights. Taken too soon.
>>98040447Damn straight....
>>98039608No, that was a pretty spot on take. Consider what's being sold/licensed. Joytoy makes desk/shelf toys, which don't replace their plastic crack game pieces.Most video games are either mobile slop to advertise, like Freeblade, Tacticus, and so on, or are action or RTS games, which are very different from the turn based style of their game, and the few that are 1 to 1's of GW games, like Space Hulk and Mordenhiem, are based on very old bourd games. Also note that none of these require any financial risk on GW's part since they just collect licensing fees from them.None of these compete with their main product, aka their models, and most of them actively steer them towards their models.
>>98039263GW's business model is selling miniatures and paint and books.the cost of the average army when you get to 2000pts is roughly $1000. (ignore custodes)Paint and mini supplies is basically $50While it's unreported, a lot of people buy minis to paint, and not play. The game hardly matters at all. It takes months to assemble and paint an army for a lot of people. The guys who love to play will just glue together unpainted plastic. But People are addicted to their plastic crack.Confusing warhammer as a game first instead of a plastic toy company is really misguided. Sure the community is active, people play tournaments, and it may trick you into thinking you're engaging with a TT. But at the end of the day you took up a painting hobby and now you're stuck creating dioramas like your grandpa did with model trains.Literally nobody would play virtual 40k because the game just sucks. And not being able to hold your minis would take away all the fun.
>>98040318Like... Not at all? Total war is a simplified 4x game on the world map, and has real time big battles in 3d. You could argue that the 4x stuff is kinda like a campaign with elaborate rules about the territories, but the battles of total war have nothing to do how 40k plays on the tabletop, similar how total war fantasy has nothing to do with how WHFB/old world actually plays.
>>98042143>Literally nobody would play virtual 40k because the game just sucks. And not being able to hold your minis would take away all the fun.This. I would rather keep painting for my shelf and play dawn of war or something (dark heresy soon hopefully) than to bother with a digital recreation of 40k.
>>98040926First - GW sells miniatures that you have to assemble yourself, not models. The fact that you don't see the difference only means that you are an autist with 60 IQ. Second - miniatures that you have to assemble yourself are not for the mass consumer. But I have good news for you - the GW CEO is just as autistic as you are, so nothing will change and Warhammer will remain a niche product for poorfags autists who want to feel like special snowflakes just because they got out a credit card, bought overpriced plastic and then assembled miniatures following the instructions like good paypiggies they are. Just pray that the next GW CEO not going to be a competent normies with an understanding of the modern market.
>>98039375Licenceing makes up less than 10% of their revenue, GW uses it as a pipeline to get people into the actual hobby because that's where their revenue comes from.
>>98042398>leads post with pointless semantic quibbling>starts whining about low iq autists immediately aftermighty powerful projection
>>98042143>But at the end of the day you took up a painting hobby and now you're stuck creating dioramas like your grandpa did with model trains.>warhammer trashOnly the dumbest of the dumb are left in the GW community, isn't it? Long gone are the days when a GW product was compatible with and part of the modeling hobby, now it's a cult of stupid paypiggies who live in a delusion that just because they build miniatures following instructions like stupid automatons they are modelers. No, stupid, the nu-hammer is a product for stupid people who want to win a tournament with unpainted miniatures on ugly table with ugly L-shaped terrain, they were never real modelers who make everything with their own hands from scratch.
>>98042143A touhou fan would be familiar with the concept of a merch engine for a dogshit "game" that none of the fans actually play I suppose.
>>98042407>ad hominemI accept your confession.
>>98042412more hypocrisybet you think your crusty unwashed autistic ass smells of roses
>>98042416Mother of all gay projections.
>>98042358Real time big battles is way fucking better than some virtual version of the tabletop game.Limiting yourself to ~6 turns of UGOIGO nonsense based on d6 rolls with platoon/company sized forces in a videogame about space war is fucking retarded.
>>98039263I think the reason gw is doing things the way they are is because they are trying to build up as much money as possible via pay pigs before 3d printing hits the mainstream in accessibility and becoming as common as say phones. Then they’ll have to shift things around and adapt.Or maybe the paypiggy support is eternal and gw never has to adopt.
>>98042458It absolutely is, no argument there. And that is why a virtual version of 40k has zero appeal to me.
>>98042398>you have to assemble yourself, not modelThey sell plastic model kits. It does not matter if the end result is a space marine, a tank or a plane (gw sells all of those), or if it's historically correct models or sci fi miniatures - as long as you glue together plastic parts you are building a plastic model.
>>980424783d printing will never become mainstream or rather - it already is, but it won't grow from where it is now. Everyone in the modelling hobby who is tech savvy enough (and has the space) can buy a printer for very little money and print perfectly fine models with it, either fdm or resin. Nothing for either of these printer types will make them suddenly appeal to people who so far are not interested. They won't get much cheaper as entry models already cost just 200-300€. They are super easy to use already, if you are able to watch like 5 minutes of YouTube tutorials or read a AI summary on how to set it up. They won't get noticeably smaller, because the print volume is important - so if you don't have the space right now, you won't have the space for a future printer either if you don't get a bigger house or apartment.
>>98042503I think you’re right.>ai summaryAre those ai summaries relating to tech support really actually reliable?I would prefer ai summaries in words over YouTube tutorials now because most are needlessly longer just for ad revenue now.
>>98039263It's a terrible fit for a vidya client. Even if you were to remove all the time wasted on book-keeping and doing manual shit, you're still looking at minimum 1,5 hour matches, I don't play much multiplayer games but I don't think any of the popular ones take this long.But, worse then that, you'd have multiple 10-15 minute periods of downtime when the opponent takes his turn.
>>98042143>Literally nobody would play virtual 40k because the game just sucks.A majority of lobbies on Tabletop sim are 40k
>>98042513For basic stuff, they are reliable enough. Like "how do I level my buildplate" (assuming the printer is too old for auto leveling). I have a fairly new fdm printer (elegoo centauri) and yesterday I had an issue while changing the filament to a new material and didn't know if/how I can just extrude material to clean the nozzle from any remaining old stuff. I entered the issue to copilot, and had the correct answer in 10 seconds on my screen (but I'm sure I would have found it on Google or YouTube too as I was just blind and did not see the button for it).
>>98042534And how many people is this "majority"?
>>98042580Nta butIt probably isn’t a majority in being larger than the other tabletop games as lots of people play less popular wargames as tts is the only option to them.There’s also tabletop roleplaying games to take into consideration.This doesn’t mean that 40k is a small percentage.I would say it is the biggest percentage but not a majority of games played on tts.It’s been a while since I last played tts.
>>98042591I meant it rather as, is it a significant enough number of people to justify to create and maintain a game for just that. If it's 2 million playing 40k on tabletop simulator daily it's one thing, if it's 5000 it's another thing. And if it's less, then it's just irrelevant.
>>98042489>as long as you glue together plastic parts you are building a plastic model.So that's what paypiggies tell themselves. No, it's cope, you're not a modeler, you're a paypig who confused buying microtransactions in this shity pay-to-win live service GW games with a hobby. But I believe you've gaslight yourself to believe that it's a coincidence that the best-selling GW product is always meta shit, this thread shows that nu-hammer fans are simply brainwashed cultists.
>>98042599No it is not big enough I just chimed in that’s all.Gw’s main bread and butter at the moment seems to be their miniatures.As much as I enjoyed Dawn of War 1 not so much Dow 2 I think that was a Diamond in the pile. The same can be said about total war warhammer.At best those gw licensed games nowadays are for their video game music which weirdly enough vidya music tends to be good and porting 3d models to GMod or tabletop simulator to use as pieces for virtual 40k games.
>>98042503You're right that paypiggies won't be interested in 3D printers because buying overpriced GW crap is a rite of passage for them that gives them a sense of empowerment. But 3D printers aren't for stupid mouthbreathers, 3D printers are for people who love creative freedom, something that GW cultists don't have by default, otherwise they would just move away from GW towards actual modeling.
>>98039425>Tfw GW does this and you have to buy each squad in your army separatelyAnd they cost the same as the actual plastic ones
>>98042564Thanks!Generally though the instruction manuals are the best sources right?Even for the smallest specifics?I got cold feet back when I got my printer and fell into the endless preparation cycle again.Never stopped hoarding stls though.
I vaguely remember a thread made that discussed the contrarian/superiority complexes those who support non-gw games have.Why does this behavior develop?Do these arrogant ones have the ability to know that they’re making their game communities look bad?
>The company reported a pre-tax profit of over £262 million, largely fueled by the success of Warhammer 40,000: Space Marine 2 and high-margin miniatures>Warhammer 40,000: Space Marine 2 was a major contributor to licensing revenue, selling over 7 million copiesAgain, IP is saved by the video game. That's right, the GW product has never been good, all success is due to third party video game developers. And it's been this way since Dawn of War.
>>98042639>IP is saved by the video gameVideo games are a good advertisement, that's about it, which is why GW knows that it's best to focus on things that actually make money.>Sourcehttps://images.ctfassets.net/ost7hseic9hc/7lRczzQBbvA22PEmSVJN8K/2de2f722e20e1d69b9aa3ed4e1b95678/2025-26_half_year_report_v3.pdf
>>98042409You've never made anything. Except your mother cry.
>>98042614>>98042580>>98042534NTA but I suspect that a lot of the wargame playerbase on TTS is just people doing the following>getting their fix in cause they don't have the time to play in person>playtesting builds for models they don't own or plan to buy anyway>playing with a friend who lives farI think people who play wargames on TTsim own models anyway. not the other way around. physical figs are the gateway drug to TTS, not the other way around. More action packed and mainstream games like DoW, TWW darktide and space marine probably do bring a lot of people to the hobby but GW doesn't really give a fuck if you play once they already sold you the paint and models and god forbid the toolsagain it's one of those things we can't possibly know since no conclusive info exists. just giving my 2 cents
>>98042681Yeah, GW CEO is incompetent, we already know that after the company rejected Blizzard offer, you don't need to remind us of that. The company survived on luck, but you can't run on luck forever, especially when you consider the fact that GW failed to attract new blood and the company's audience is stupid 40+ boomers. So the company has a maximum of 10-20 years left to live, after which the audience will die out naturally and everyone will forget that this setting existed. This is, of course, if everything stays as it is and no competent person replaces retarded CEO.
>>98042639I wouldn't be surprised at all by this. It was prohibitively expensive when I built my first army fifteen years ago, it must rarely if ever get new players buying in now. For what a 2000 point army would cost you could get something actually useful like a fancy grill or a boat, or probably a new computer even.
>>98042724You could argue that a decade ago before Kirby stepped down, but ever since Kevin Rountree became ceo GW has the difference has been night and day.There's nothing wrong with disliking GW, but at least don't be retarded about it.
>>98042733Well, for armies of 2000pts the price is $500-$800 on average. But I think the main problem is time and space, the zoomers work much more than boomers and do not have large enough housing plus it's all rent, so constant moving. So yes, either GW will find new audience, or it will slowly fade away. And the problem is that the current CEO was born in 1969, so he simply does not care what will happen to the company in 10 years, there is a high chance that he will already be retired. Also this explains why the old fart doesn't like digitalization so much, his stupid old brain is simply not capable of processing new information anymore, so he stuck to the old business model because at least he understands something about it.
>>98042622Plastic boxes will include codes for digital copies of whatever is in the box
>>98042724Are you a big time investor or why do you care if the company is around 20+ years from now?
>>98042747Kirby was full retard while Kevin is just an old fart and stuck in the past. But Kevin is not interested in realizing the potential of IP, he is just a lazy jerk who does his job well enough to keep the company alive, but nothing more. Although I strongly suspect that he could not do better even if he wanted to, he simply does not have the brains for it anymore, the most what he can do is maintaining the status quo today, so I guess I will give him that.
>>98042775>realizing the potential of IPLike what WotC is currently doing with mtg? No thanks.
>>98042780What WoTC is doing is anti-realization. And again, this is because the CEO has no idea what to do. Although this is the norm, today the average CEO is a con man who weasel his way to the top.
>>98042755That's grim. There's nothing sadder than boomers. They'll be getting suplexed by nurse Shaniqua at the old folks home and will never be smart enough to realize what they did to deserve it.
>>98042785So i'd rather go with the CEO that wants to keep the current business model working, rather than having some con man that's trying to chase a questionable market at the risk of sacrificing the what's currently making the lionshare of their money.
>>98039263Because the game itself would be fucking boring as a video game? You just point and click enemy units and the game rolls everything by itself. Thrilling.
>>98042792A valid position if you are a boomer yourself, otherwise I suggest looking for an alternative just in case.
>>98042822it's ok not to like things, taste is subjective.
>>98042724because being bought by blizzard would have really improved warhammer lmao
>>98042398Since you don't seem to have an argument beyond some incredibly questionable and generally incorrect quibbling over definitions and some autistic ranting that's as irrelevant as it is accurate, I'm going to take that as you admitting defeat.
>>98043633>unintelligible autistic criesYou can repeat what you just said, only this time in human language.
>>98043874For the simple minded: you have nothing to say, so you lose.Glad we could clear that up for you.
>>98042409
>>98042724>Yeah, GW CEO is incompetent, we already know that after the company rejected Blizzard offerI'll take, "Things That Never Happened," for 100, Alex.
>>98042822there is no alternative. the financialization of the economy has locked us into only shit forever until people get tired of it and move to the next thing or we just go extinct.
>>98039263I hope that Total War 40k game doesnt end up being shit, its going to take like 12 years to become a complete setting for 40k though but I hope it at least plays good as a base.
>>98039263>why doesn't a company that makes billions selling plastic and paint, and has invested millions in the infrastructure to produce these things, just shove a giant spiky dildo up their own ass and fuck themselves to death by releasing a product that undercuts all of that and renders it irrelevant?Business GENIUS of a fucking generation over here lmfao
>>98039263They think they would lose money from ittbf outside of Warlord Games Bolt Action VTT, I can't think of any official ones
>>98044081There's a really loud retarded group that think everything is being manged wrong and if they were in charge they would magically make all the right decisions to explode the IP into a household name like star wars.
>>98044102Nobody cares about Star Wars.
>>98044102literally itt, some retards thinking their supposed business insider talk is relevant to anyone.
>>98044102Is a boomer in charge? If yes then it is being managed wrong. Its a stereotype so pervasive it has become an inviolable law of nature, same as single white moms having mixed kids.
>>98039263>>98039375>>98039382Because if newfaggot assholes can play a videogame instead of spending $1500 on an army (before paint and brushes) then they won't buy that $1500 in plastic and there is no way in hell anyone is going to buy the videogame for $1500It's nothing but a loss for GW to allow a 1:1 tabletop videogame, it has only ever happened with Blood Bowl and that only because the game was by a third party before GW sued them into giving GW the rights and profits for it.GW will never make that mistake again, if anyone makes a bootleg 1:1 of 40k or fantasy GW will sue for the rights and then destroy everything instead.
>>98044534You are not even using the term boomer correctly. You are on /tg/. And it shows you dont belong here.
>>98044604There is SOVL, but thats as close as it gets (to WHFB). I doubt a similar game for "not-40k" would survive long on steam.
>>98044018>Blizzard Entertainment originally planned to make a Warhammer Fantasy real-time strategy (RTS) game in the early 1990s, but they could not secure the license from Games Workshop. After the deal failed, Blizzard continued development, rebranding the project to create their own intellectual property: Warcraft: Orcs & Humans. The same thing happened with 40k. That's how Starcraft happened. So shut up, you stupid kid.
>>98039263Ill bite.Tell me you don't understand warhammer without telling me you don't understand warhammer
>>98044102And funnily enough "the right decisions" always seems to align perfectly with pandering specifically and exhaustively to their specific desires.
>>98044607Are you sure about that?
>>98044604Are you a boomer? Only boomer or autist can be so fixated on old things. And since you are stupid, I will explain on my fingers - the idea is to make a live service game without middleman and expand the audience, now you can hacve money from people who do not buy plastic. But this idea is beyond the understanding of your smooth brain. And the fact that GW thinks that a virtual product will replace miniature sales is just an indicator of how stupid the CEO is, it's obvious that these products will exist in parallel universes and will not compete with each other.
>>98044683>That's how Starcraft happened. So shut up, you stupid kid.You are wrong, and you are just repeating rumours you read somewhere.
>>98044719Who or what exactly stops you from making billions with your grand business idea then? It seems so clever, and easy to do.But apparently you find it more important to spread your great idea on 4chan, instead of making money with it.
>>98044752>ad hominemI accept your confession. It makes me laugh how boomers lie with a straight face that the game is not the main thing and at the same time start to ape just from the very idea that someone will get access to the game without buying miniatures. Yeah, continue to lie unsuccessfully that you buy miniatures not because of metagaming, but for the sake of "modeling".
>no one, literally no one>boomers: rrrrrrreeeeee, new is bad, old is good, don't change anything, my brain can't handle new information anymoreI have one question for the old farts - do you already have a bald spot, or is it just gray hair for now?
>>98044803>metagamingWhat are you even talking about? I do not even play 40k with my 40k miniatures. I use the minis to play Stargrave and Five Core.
>>98044683My guy, Blizzard was already a successful studio when they released Warcraft: Orcs & Humans in 1994. They didn't have a license with Games Workshop, they didn't need one, and according to the people who made the game, the only person that even wanted one was the studio's co-founder who wasn't even involved in the development.>Allen Adham hoped to obtain a license to the Warhammer universe to try to increase sales by brand recognition. Warhammer was a huge inspiration for the art-style of Warcraft, but a combination of factors, including a lack of traction on business terms and a fervent desire on the part of virtually everyone else on the development team (myself included) to control our own universe nixed any potential for a deal. We had already had terrible experiences working with DC Comics on “Death and Return of Superman” and “Justice League Task Force”, and wanted no similar issues for our new game.https://kotaku.com/the-inside-story-of-the-making-of-warcraft-part-1-5929157Literally the primary source for there was never a deal is the game's credited director. Why in the hell would they even entertain the notion of pursuing a 40k license when they'd already proven with two other titles that they didn't need Games Workshop's IP to be sell their games?"Oh, but it says right there that there was the potential for a deal!" You're a fucking poltroon. If you have the entire team against it, and you aren't in a position to negotiate good terms, and you don't want to work with a licensing partner anyway because your last licensing experience was awful, means that there was no deal.
>>98042143you're stuck creating dioramas like your grandpa did with model trains.But anon, living like your grandpa and spending time creating dioramas is heaven on earth
>>98044862Sure, I believe you, you wouldn't lie to me just to hide the fact that wining Warhammer tournament is your only source of joy, that's not a thing, right?
>>98044910>means that there was no deal.This is exactly what was said from the beginning. GW refused the license and wasted a golden opportunity, meanwhile Starcraft will become Warhammer killer, just watch.
>>98044979GW didn't refuse shit, they were never even asked.
>>98044803literally not ad hominem you retard
>>98044979>Starcraft will become Warhammer killerThe IP that reached peak relevance with Broodwar like 25 years ago? Fuck outta here, no one gives a shit about your gook e"""sport"""
>>98044102There’s actually two groups that think that. People who think that way but aren’t in a position to make it happen, and people who end up running things into the ground by making what they consider the “right” decisions.
GW is missing a cash cow
There are a lot of people that would like to play tabletop 40k or AoS but can't/won't because of the following reasons>No one to play with near>High costs, even more in countries with weak currency or high importation fees>Not interest in paintingLicense a vtt 40k or AoS with full rules, similar to how Creative Assembly made with Warhammer Total war and you have a new entire source of revenue.People that play irl will probably buy the game too, hell, maybe even give access codes for buying physical products and redeem them so you can have them on your virtual game. Just look how MTG is a top seller both on it's physical market and then the added revenue for MTG Arena. >But modeling and paintingPeople that like that will keep buying models and paints>But muh money.Just micro transaction like CA does with TT:Warhammer, release a few paid dlcs every few weeks, or maybe even add "buy a faction feature". MAYBE they will lose some money from the physical market, you can branch to a whole new market that it's not being properly explored, without the cost of distribution that entails to a selling physical goods. Hell, you could even micro transaction dyes for fucks sake or variant models. >People like playing it irl with their friendsAnd they will keep doing so, but if someone wants a game without having to spent a lot of time and money they could or don't have anyone near to play with because of distance, schedule. Buyers that don't buy plastic will hardly buy plastic, but they have a bigger chance to buy a virtual game and dlcs
>>98044920>heaven on earthWhere do I start to hopefully feel something in this hobby?I haven’t engaged in hobby activity in a long time.
>>98046618Feel free to message GW and send them your genious idea. Nobody here cares nor is able to help you.
>>98046618Those people already do that in TTS, and turns out that market isn't actually as large as people think.
>>98039263Painting and modelling is pretty much the only thing that hard gatekeeps the tourists from fucking this hobby up more than they already have.
>>98047365What, GW finally allowed this? Because I remember the regular purges of all mods related to GW ownership, have they finally chilled out or something? Although I personally will still be wary of using mods for TTS because you never know when GW will start power tripping again. Plus mods are not an official product, mod support will always be terrible.
>>98047629What rock have you been living under? A large majority of TTS' player base is just there to play 40k, there's well supported model packs and workshop plugins for games, and you don't even need to interect with the 40k TTS discords to access them.
>>98047656>>98047629There are less than 10k people using TTS daily. Most of the times, its below 5k.
>>98047811yeah, which is why I mentioned that the market isn't as large as people think.
>>98047656>>98047811>>98047818>D&D Beyond has over 19 million active users>Roll20 has over 10 million usersIt looks like either TTS is crap, or the public just doesn't know about it.
>>98039263Nothing good ever comes from lowering the barrier to entry, to a space that revolves around high-effort activities.
>>98039375Lmao if you think the Amazon show is coming.It got quietly canned. Just like the Inquisitor one with Dan Abnett (you fucking zoom zooms probably don't even remember that one) that ALSO got quietly shit canned.The main GW Amazon liaison was just a shit bag (he returned to his old job in marketing, along with his bitch boy bag carrier Eddy, hence why he is back on the GW reveal shows) he literally killed the chances of a show It's not being announced because it's literally part of each other's contract that they can't talk about it if it falls through, as it would hurt the stock prices (more GW than Amazon of course).
