Here’s a hypothetical scenario.You go to a website, and see random people heavily promoting a game you’ve never heard of before. They seem to really love the game, and encourage people to visit its kickstarter page.You (let’s say you are incredibly impressionable and have a good chunk of cash in your pocket) visit the kickstarter page, see the customary text blurbs about how great the game is, and while it is a pretty expensive game, it partially tries to justify that “premium” price by declaring that it has hundreds of illustrations. This is a serious, professional product after all, and paying artists a fair wage means charging a premium price.Despite maybe a few red flags, you bite the bullet and drop the dosh. In the meantime, you begin to hear rumors that some of the art in the book is AI generated. You go to the kickstarter page and see nothing that would indicate that, and after some digging around on other websites you find a message that someone posted where they asked the creator of the game directly in his discord about it, and he replied that the majority of the art was drawn by humans, but (because he had run out of money but still had spaces to fill) he hired an artist who does “AI-assisted” art to add a few more pieces.When the books arrive, you find out that actually the majority of the art is low-quality AI generated images, with extra/missing fingers, malformed proportions, and other obvious defects, and just that general generated feel. You go to several websites to find out what happened, and instead of finding answers discover that the game has been banned from them due to people making accounts solely to promote the game and to disrupt any criticism of it.Would that qualify as a scam?
What part of selling a product that was deliberately lied about wouldn't be a scam?Kickstarter even has a policy that bans companies who'd try that.
>>98062806Traditional games?
>lying about the book's contents>making fake accounts to spam promote itYeah, no shit it's a scam. Why is this even a question? Good luck trying to get anything done about it though. Scams are basically legal now.
>>98062806Yes, that'd be a pretty obvious abd straightforward scam.
>>98062856It's describing what happened with ACKS2.
>>98062856Buying traditional games is part of traditional games anon
>Would that qualify as a scam?Given how obsessed kids online are with labelling anything and everything a scam I'm guessing all the things you left out, misrepresented, angled or just plain made up in order to make this totally hypothetical for realsies honest guv' scenario seem as scammy as possible.
>>98062873That's some really sloppy slop.Completely-fucked up hands with too few fingers and one is just a mess weird ball that clearly has no idea how fists work. It seems like asking AI to to do thick gloves can really just fuck things up.The legs make no sense and are not even positioned correctly under him but rather too far to the left. The pants also change between legs.His accessories don't make any sense, just random chunks of material positioned in a nonsensical fashion, with cords and connections just slathered at random. I'm actually surprised it managed to almost get something that vaguely resembles a bag. Almost.Also, those tents in the background are just pure slop.This is a pretty low quality generated image. The leg issue makes it pretty impossible to pass it off as non-AI. but whoever generated it could have at least attempted to fix the more obvious issues and also at least generated the guy separately from the background and then compiled the image so it doesn't end up with that pure slop back there.
>>98062873You got more of that slop?
>>98062806>lie about product>deliver something other than what was promisedYes, that's a scam. Could you make it stick in a court? Hard to say. Usually depends on how brazen and significant the con is.
>>98062969Someone posted a whole bunch of it.This one's one of my favorites because the guy just straight-up has six-fingers.
>>98062984A six-fingered man, you say?
>>98062984 Extra finger, obviously. That thumb is also screaming for someone to put it out of its misery.The background is all sorts of a mess. Inconsistent pillars melting and losing track of what they are, the vaulted ceiling becoming the back wall, whatever that floor is trying to be, it's really way too nonsensical (and elaborate) to try to blame it on an artist just being lazy and sloppy. These are obvious issues that would be immediately apparent even in the sketch phase.Speaking of apparent in the sketch phase, his spearhead is struggling to remember what it is, and his leg muscles are pretty incoherent. Plenty of anatomical mistakes are made by professional artists, but the flow of muscles is completely wrong, with similar issues in his forearm. The details, whether we're talking about his belt buckle or the eagle or even just that one of his front tassels has five rivets while the other has four is just slop being slop.I almost feel bad for the AI program for having to churn out whatever happened to that shield. The various rings just keep failing to remain consistent, with the outermost and innermost areas being the most obvious.
>>98062984That looks like a man who should fear Inigo Montoya.
>>98062874Paypig.>>98062873How did this affect your latest traditional games session?
>>98062969There's an endless amount.
>>98063064>Paypig.This is a nigger-tier "we don't get food from farmers, we get it from supermarkets" thinking. How do you think things get pirated?
>>98063069Sometimes you just get punched so hard that your jewelry gets encrusted into your chest, happens to the best of us.
>>98062806If you can't bother having good art in your finish book, I wont bother playing your game.
>>98062806>unicorn straight up mercd that old guybased But yes, the ACKS stuff is obvious business scum stuff. Not surprising but not good. Note they spammed it to troll a thread with the pretense of talking about their game but actually haven't been able to talk about their ACKS game in the thread they wanted to "protect".
>>98063069Messed up pinky, hand lines are nonsensical, how was this supposed to even pass at a glance?...Is her other hand actually casting a shadow on that slab in the background? It also looks like some of her hair is picking up characteristics of the background, turning stony/metallic.These backgrounds in general just keep being complete slop nonsense. We've got that chain at the top that's constantly forgetting what it's trying to be, and then just random slop rubble everywhere. But, we have to talk about this poor girl's anatomy. Yes, anatomy is hard. It's why artists have to study it and practice it. This girls torso is just constantly forgetting what it's trying to be and where it's trying to twist to, and then her skirt just completely wipes away its memory and leaves some vague leg-like mass that's thicker than her deformed waist. Following the curve of her hip and the fabric, she looks like she doesn't have a second leg.Those breasts are a travesty. Most human artists tend to give special attention to them, and this program left them as odd lumps while it struggled with the logistics of her assymetrical bra. Asymmetry is always an easy way to help identify if an image is AI or not, because the program doesn't remember detail in the way a human can, and the greater distance between two objects that should be similiar/identical, the more it struggles. Meanwhile, a human artist just remembers that the right cup of a bra should probably match the left cup of a bra.
>>98062806Yeah its a scam
>>98062873>>98062984>>98063069This is some ugly ass art.If you're going to resort to using AI, at least let the result not look like shit.
>>98062835>Kickstarter even has a policy that bans companies who'd try that.I wonder how strict they are with policing it though. I'm guessing they'd want to be, since they already have a reputation for lots of scams, but it's probably not easy with just how many hundreds of scam projects are added every day.>>98062858>Scams are basically legal now.It really is a wild west out there.
>>98062806Only lefties hate AI art because it threatens their monopoly on media.
>>98063344I mean one of the pictures in this thread is a six fingered paladin that made it into a real print run for a real product. In an era before generative AI, that picture would have been some cheap picture that would look stupid but not involve six fingers and would represent someone's art.Personally I think some AI art is fine especially in indie projects, but it's perfectly reasonable to not like the set of events that lead to that art linked in this thread.
>>98063344Only idiots think being AI made shields it from criticism.
>>98063344That's not exactly the best Monet.
>>98062806That's definitely a scam, but I don't think it has to do with the undisclosed use of AI.Consider an alternate scenario where the book you got was full of beautiful, lavishly detailed illustrations just like you expected, effectively indistinguishable from the work of a skilled artist, but then you later learned that it had all been done with a particularly high-end AI. Or, alternately, the book really was full of hundreds of purely human-made illustrations, but they were all shitty scribbles and stick figures? Which of these sounds worse to you?
>>98063344AI feels lazy, and even more lazy if you don't use an editor to do some basic photoshop to fix inconsistencies. That's double lazy, and why would you like a product that's made without care by lazy hands?
>>98063133This by the way is why they even bother with art. Macris isn't an artist, and his game is really cool. That's what he wants people to be interested in.And this is a pretty common issue in this field, because one creative man can write books of rules and lore, and then, because so much of the industry wants to buy a book with art in it, he has to go pay artists if he wants real art. Fewer people who think like you would have helped the entire RPG community, but instead we end up subject to "this big company just owns the space" at a much higher rate than otherwise.
>>98063461NTA, uncertain what your examples are trying to get at, can you be explicit in what>undisclosed but high quality AI and >undisclosed low quality human scribbles provide as some sort of counterpoint? It still seems like disclosure or lack there of is the main sticking point. Any kickstarter that doesn't have significant previews of the art and links to the artist's previous work is sus and should be treated accordingly. >wait, don't fund it >pirate it and see if it was any good >buy hard copy later if you actually like it If its hinging on fomo to sell, its almost certainly a scam.
>>98063486No, your take is lame. If he wanted to publish a book without art he could do it, if he adds the art because he wants the costumers that care about the art then there's nothing surprising when those same costumers would look at that lazy attempt of adding aesthetics to his work and laugh at such hardhearted attempt.Yelling "you should care for this" while showing shit is not impresive.
>>98063461> human-made illustrations, but they were all shitty scribbles and stick figures?So, og d&d monster manual art?
>>98063344Especially poor choice of artist. Monet was an impressionist painter- even if you can perfectly slop out a monet, what is it an impression of? Noone painted it, noone observed or experienced anything, its just colour and shape devoid of any artistic value. Its an artistic style that emerged in response to photography. We know you can perfectly render water lillies with a camera, and we dont care. We want to see how THE ARTIST saw the lillies, their IMPRESSION of them. This is not how YOU saw the lillies. Its worthless. And maybe you can still pass your slop off as a real painting anyway. Maybe some people wont be able to tell. But is that the point? The value of art is just trick people and sell a product?
>>98063461I would prefer the scribbles on principle, which is the issue. Its false and misleading advertizing
>>98063514>>98063495My point is that it's the quality of the final product relative to what was advertised that's the determining factor of whether it's a scam, irrespective of what tool was made to create the illustrations. If you promise good art but deliver bad art, it's the badness of the delivery that makes it a scam.
>>98062806It'd be a pretty evil scam.AI art already presents a lot of issues.It's mostly generated using stolen assets, trained on art taken from artists without their consent, and used to create material that actually impacts their trade. If you're just using it for personal projects, it's not the worst thing in the world, but using AI art even for something you're distributing for free helps to normalize the practice. Using it in something you plan on selling is considerably worse, because it really helps accelerate the "race to the bottom" where business majors in company management just imitate what other companies are doing. That's why there's been a lot of loud backlash against bigger game companies even just accidentally using a few pieces of AI art, and most of them have made statements to ensure the public that they wont use it in the future. Even with that, the commercial art market has still been considerably impacted and it wasn't really in a great position before the AI boom.And, that's all without talking about the more philosophical questions like whether AI art is actually damaging the broader public's understanding of art or how it may impact people in the future, particularly children who are being raised without ever knowing what life was like before a computer could spit out a 97% believable image in twenty seconds. Some of these latter concerns may be unfounded though, as young children and teens are particularly vocal about their hatred of AI art and it's unlikely that any generation won't feel like AI art isn't some form of exploitation.
>>98062806So this is just another ACKS/OSR thread that avoids filters.>hypotheticalFuck you.
>>98063551But, that's just your standard, generic AI art ethics questions. Using AI art in a commercial product without a disclaimer is fraud, and compounds on the issues above and makes them considerably worse. It's taking advantage of people by deliberately deceiving them into buying something of significantly lower value than what was promised, it's changing inexperienced people's perceptions of how much art should cost and affecting the market as a whole, and it's also taking away a pretty important choice.There is a good percentage of the population who actively boycott AI art. Their reasons may be deeply personal: it may be because they are artists or know artists or simply like artists, it may be because they just don't like the underlying quality of poorly made AI art and don't want to see it proliferated any more than it already has been, and it may be because they watched the Terminator films too many times. But, whatever their reasons for boycotting AI art and products that use it may be, it's their choice and should be respected. It's a pretty evil thing to do to sell a game without disclosing you're using AI just to try and avoid the obvious backlash you're going to get and maybe to get people who would otherwise boycott it to buy it. On the individual artist level, being outed as a plagiarist is typically a career-ending event, and trying to pass of AI art as your own is just a form of plagiarism. You get destroyed on social media, companies see you as a liability, and even your basic morality is left in question. Any company that would do this would also have to be the same level of morally bankrupt, if not greater.
>>98063486His game is actually pretty crap,, which is probably how people realized it was being shilled so easily. When how people tried advertising it was a complete departure from the actual quality of the product, it's sus as fuck, and the rules are actually probably the worst part of the game.
>>98063548Delivering bad art for a Kickstarter product is already a signs that something went horribly wrong t some point, either as an intended or unintended consequence of the creators, so they are either not using the money well because they're incompetent and don't know how to run a kickstarter or they are actively scamming you and using the money that was meant for the art somewhere else without informing the backers.
>>98063548Agreed, got confused by the wording of >but I don't think it has to do with the undisclosed use of AI.The key note is the undisclosed part. Thanks for clarifying.
>>98063579>so they are either not using the money well because they're incompetent and don't know how to run a kickstarter or they are actively scamming you and using the money that was meant for the art somewhere else without informing the backers.Might have been for his mortgage lol.
>>98063618Waiting for him to start a crypto scam already.
>>98063461The former. The latter is at least honest, and there's a considerable amount more of direct communication between the artist and the viewer.People value art as a form of communication. It's also incredibly revealing. Even something as basic as stick figure art can help communicate how that person sees the world and what they think is important. And, it's much harder to deceive people if all you're relying on is your own skill.If the AI art is just someone typing in an incredibly generic prompt and giving it a glance over to make sure there's not an extra arm or two, there's not a whole lot of communication there. And, if they're trying to pass if off as not being AI art, they're really only saying "Fuck you."
>>98063579>using the money that was meant for the art somewhere elseProbably on shills.
>>98063575I wonder how many of you haters are legit. It's not a dominant enough game in the discussion space to warrant such butthurt. I am absolutely convinced that some shilling went on (for sure on reddit), but a lot of games have had weird shills too, like Shadowdark, and nobody is doing a crusade about them.You can't deny that the ACKS ruleset does a solid job of fleshing out simulationist domain play, and its take on race-as-class is quite solid. I can see hating either of those if they aren't for you though.
>>98063461>effectively indistinguishable from the work of a skilled artist,I think there's an issue with your hypothetical.AI art meant to look like professional work (or realistic photos) is actually impossible to be indistinguishable from pro work/photos. To a layperson just giving it a quick look, it's probably very easy to slip AI art past them, but under close observation by people who understand art/photography, it's incredibly difficult if not outright impossible to not have any areas that could taken as evidence of it being AI art. The better the AI is attempting to imitate, the more obvious the mistakes that not even beginner artists make become. And that's even without using various tools to just outright confirm it. We've had photo-manipulation detection software from long before the current AI craze, and these could detect even minor adjustments and signs of compositing more than two decades ago. Using these programs on AI images is kind of like throwing a geiger counter into the heart of Chernobyl.And, most people can actually just "feel" when they're looking at an AI image. There's plenty of times when people are just mistaken, but even people without any artistic/photographic knowledge are surprisingly good at guessing if an image is AI or not even without looking close enough to spot characteristic AI defects.
>>98063749Having rules doesn't make them good rules. It doesn't do a solid job at anything because it's rules are overcomplicated, with poor math and logic. It wouldn't be surprising if huge amounts of the text were actually AI generated, particularly by how bland it all is. >its take on race-as-class is quite solid.lol, that only exists so he can sell splatbooks. Instead of saying "here's three races, and here's 10 classes, enjoy 30 combinations) he instead went "Oh, you want to play a dwarf [class]? You need to buy the dwarf book. Oh, you want to play an elf [class]? You need to buy the elf book."Everything the guy does is scummy as fuck.
>>98063749I think there's about 2-3 strongly ideologically motivated pushers on the pro and anti acks side with some crossover about 2nd ed and osr definitions. Its been increasingly clear over the last few months neither side is interested in honest critique or looking at pros and cons, they just do a rant and deflect when presenting weird takes the other side can find holes in because they're all worked up and not thinking well. Like this one >>98063804All osr material is a toolkit, the entire idea is being able to take parts you want and make them useful for how a dm may want to run their game. The idea of taking some of the classes is anathema to this poster, even though its quite feasible people do this. They can't see past their bile, or have fixated on the negative enough that they can't parse material. Its more or less the same for the opposite side. I think because they've all subconsciously mapped culture war stuff onto it. Really fucks people up.
>>98063749>a lot of games have had weird shills too, like Shadowdark, and nobody is doing a crusade about them.Shadowdark seems to have a genuinely large following. Its kickstarters had more than 12k backers, its subreddit has 10k weekly visitors, and there's actually multiple authors making Shadowdark-specific compatible material, indicating that they also believe there's a genuine market for Shadowdark products, likely because "5e-inspired OSR" or "OSR-inspired 5e" is basically just two marketable terms smashed together.While you can probably assume some self-promotion occurred, we're talking about a fairly popular indie game with a comparative amount of discussion, and no "smoking guns" like shill accounts. On the other side of things, ACKS kickstarters never had more than 2k backers (and sometimes as little as 500), its subreddit has less than 100 weekly visitors, and it was banned from both r/RPG and r/OSR because of clear signs of brigading, including some shill accounts that weren't deleted and still can be read. The ACKS following seems pretty small, and when you look at how the game's rules would only appeal to an incredibly small subset of a small subgroup within a small corner of a small hobby, the amount of promotion it gets even on 4chan definitely seems outsized.
>>98063853You're really trying to push for a "Okay, the ACKS guys are clearly shady fucks who lie about their game, but anyone who criticizes it is also probably shady" angle, and that's pretty shady of you on your part. Sometimes, one side of an argument is really just bad.There's been plenty of honest critiques about the game, but one of the problems is that the game is so flawed that if often looks like people are exaggerating. A common example is when discussing how bloated the game is, they mention the page count at 1500+ pages (without even any of the splatbooks) while the game it's based on (B/X) comes in at a slim 67 pages.It's a very bloated game, with lots of procedures that don't do much more than eat up time, and it almost wields that bloat like a shield to prevent closer examination, because the sheer effort involved in going through any of its subsystems is practically a second job. But, that hasn't stopped people on 4chan from doing so, and we've had a number of threads where people just went into one subsystem or another and tore down all the fairly obvious issues that arose fairly quickly.It's a massive game, and even games that are only a few hundred pages often require years of editing and playtesting just to try and make them worth actually playing. ACKS is a bloated game that could probably go through another two decades of editing, revisions, and playtesting, and still not even get around the issue that it has one of the worst initiative systems for combat in any game.
>>98062806no because I bought a gamebook for the rules and the game, not an artbook
>>98063948>On the other side of things, ACKS kickstarters never had more than 2k backers (and sometimes as little as 500), its subreddit has less than 100 weekly visitors,And that was WITH shilling?
>>98064133Only so much lipstick you can put on a pig.
ACKS is ultimately just BECMI, without Immortals and Companion and Master rules squashed into the Basic-Expert level range.The math can be tweaked and new classes added. But it remains a reworked version of D&D.
>>98063853ACKS is a genuinely bad game.There's some room for subjectivity, but it's very poorly made and designed. A good GM could make it work, but if you can make ACKS actually fun, you basically could make any game fun.It's practically anti-fun. Like a financial audit.
>>98064198The game could be great and the AI fuckery and shilling would be a good enough reason to never buy the game.The OSR is already flooded with games. You can find plenty of B/X clones that don't waste your time AND don't try to swindle people.
>>98062806I'm pretty sure that would be highly illegal.Depending on how many copies of the game got sold, there might even be prison time involved. I think it's like 10,000 copies.
>>98062873>titles only go up to 9 and then just give upThat's almost as funny as the art.
>>98063479To be fair modern art is pretty lazy.And post model art lazier too.I think the banana taped to the wall is the finest example of this.Good art is supposed to take some effort and skill and blow me away as I know effort and dedication to getting good to producing something like that was needed for it.
>>98062984>paladin>The image is of a hoplite.
>>98062806You'd be a fool to buy a game based on people telling you "we really love it!".And something more not to just retake your money when the "creator" tells you it's AI-made. Or at the very least, if he said that, you're up for whatever fuckery he puts up with. So yeah, a scam, and people were right scamming you.
>>98063344Kek
>>98064500iirc, the banana taped to the wall was made to mock the idea of conceptual art and how people will pay for anything if it's called art
>>98064549Yes, but the message loses its power when he sold this crap for millions.
>>98062806That's the kind of scam where I wouldn't say the scammer should die, but if they did die I wouldn't call it a tragedy.
>>98064091But you payed a premium, supposedly for because of the art, at least in part. Is it worth it to you to pay an inflated price specifically because of a feature that you have no interest in?
>>98062858>Scams are basically legal now.Kinda why it's extra important to warn people about them.I have to help my parents out all the time by basically being their final check on if something is a scam or not.
>>98064056nah, you both suck Its just a shame neither group actually play any games or post about that. Its killed both generals.
>>98064820The /osrg/ was fine until the ACKS discord got banned from everywhere else they could shill and had to take up shop here.
>>98062806Between 0 (Buddha) and 10 (Mecha-Hitler), I guess that's about a 7.
>>98064537This. There were so many warning signs that if you fell for that kind of scam you deserve some of the blame.Just return the books and leave a bad review.
>>98063146>Those breasts are a travestyThere's something so unwholesome about them.They make me sad.
AI usage of any kind should be treated like... a gun.It's dangerous. It can be used to feed a family. It can also be used to hurt people. It's a tool that can be very powerful and a tool that is very easy to misuse.If you steal from people using AI, that's armed robbery.
>>98066196It's more like a fart. If you do it quietly and in private it's not a problem. If you do it in someone's face that's assault. If you do it with an erection that's sexual assault.
>>98064601I don't care about AI ilustrations nor do I care about the worthless "artists" and "art appreciators" that keep bitching about it
>>98063548>My point is that it's the quality of the final product relative to what was advertised that's the determining factor of whether it's a scam, irrespective of what tool was made to create the illustrations.Disagree. Lying about the product is what makes it a scam. And lying about the source of the art also means that people were probably paying more because they were under the impression that you were paying for the art instead of just pocketing the premium.
>>98064198>It's practically anti-fun. Like a financial audit.Hey, now. I've participated in some entertaining audits. Don't drag them down to ACKS's level.
>>98066364I care about people trying to scam me though.If I order a guiness and they serve me bud light in a guiness bottle just to save three bucks and they think I'm a complete idiot, I'd be more insulted by the trick than any adversion to bud light.
>>98066444More like ordering Guiness and getting a bottle filled with piss.
>>98062873Jesus christ how embarrassing.
>>98063344Yeah, we're out here hating on Macris for skimping, not hating the AI art itselfFuck Macris
>>98066763I mean, both and more besides.
>>98066392>pocketing the premium.Fraud AND embezzlement?
>>98062806>Would that qualify as a scam?yeah but you would be left holding the bag. The safe thing to do is to never preorder anything, never back anything on crowdfounding sites, always pirate the things you're interested in first and never trust anyone on the internet
>>98063344How much do the (((they))) pay you for low effort psy-op work?
>>98062873That is bad, but they could have had better results just using a newer model, not to mention paying an artist to fix up some of the problems. They must've blown the money on something else.
>>98067878There is something almost quaint about the ACKS AI being so bad, like it being a mark of its time.Like early CGI. Everyone was blown away by the owl in Labyrinth's opening, but even just a few years later it aged horribly.
>>98063486>Macris isn't an artist, and his game is really coolIt's a shitty B/X Clone with absurd rules bloat tacked on.
>>98067117Yeah that sounds like good advi->never trust anyone on the internetWAIT A MINUTE.
>>98067837It's always impressive to see someone earnestly try to defend the indefensible. It takes a certain kind of special courage. Called extreme stupidity.
>>98066364You're paying 60 dollars for a book. The reason the price is 60 dollars is, in part, to pay for art. You don't care that the author didn't actually pay for art, and ostensibly pocketing that extra money?
>>98067878>they could've gotten away wirh scamming people if they used a better thievery toolAI shills are pathetic. Your image looks like shit, too.
>>98068360That guy generated that image for free just to demonstrate how even an unpaid post on a free mongolian yak butter churning website could have better results than images people paid money for.
>>98067878He literally says he used it to pay his mortgage.
>>98062806Why don’t people have tact? It is really hard to create a bunch of AI images, sift through them, then use the ones that feel the more soulful?Is this really a difficult task? Is it really so hard to count the fingers on a goblin?
>>98068710It takes a special mix of incompetence AND malice to try to pass off bad AI as human-made.
>>98062806>Would that qualify as a scam?Yes. They lied about the product and went out of their way to hide any disclosure of the actual product. It's a bait and switch, which is literally a very old very common form of scam by every definition of the word I am aware of. How could it even be argued not to be a scam?Also really stupid since AI slop can't be copyrighted so the instant anyone got their hands on the files they could spread it around and expose the scam without them realistically having any recourse.I mean in your hypothetical they managed to keep perfect secrecy with no leaks until after it was released and they presumably already ran away with the money, but realistically speaking leaks are very common when there is more than one person involved. Since there were already rumors and several people involved there would be full leaks too. So not only is it a scam, but it's a shit scam that would be exposed pretty quickly. Hell, might even have a fraud case depending on the exact claims made.
>>98062856Do you even bother to read?
>>98063344As a right-winger who makes art and has made serious efforts to enter into the art industry, commercial AI art as it stands is soulless and lessens the value of the product. While to cut costs, you are putting someone out of a job while cheapening the product. However, much like the rise of photography, artists will find a way to adapt somehow. >it threatens their monopoly on mediaIf you unironically believe this then there is no hope. You can’t make a parallel institution on slop. If anything, it actually enforces and perpetuates the monopoly by giving them more power through gatekeeping instead of balancing it out.
>>98063344Nearly everyone left right and center hate AI "art" because of the grifters who spam and scam with it everywhere all the time and ruin basically every space everywhere. It's disliked for the same reason pop-ups were hated. It's hated for the same reason spam mail is hated. It's low effort low quality shit that no one asked for shoved in your face no matter where you go by people who only care about tricking others into giving them money for nothing. In theory I don't even dislike gen AI as a potential tool. But in practice it has brought out the worst behavor of the worst people capable of using computers at every turn. It's somehow more obnoxious crypto and NFT bullshit and at this point on par with adware and infected pop-up ads/computer aids. Possibly worse since the absurd amount of money and resources are being thrown at AI in the past few years. In summery, AI slop farmers are the fucking worst and the real reason why most people hate AI.
>>98068820>But in practice it has brought out the worst behavor of the worst people capable of using computers at every turn.It's kind of a good thing. Giving people power always has a way of revealing their true nature, and giving AI to awful people hasn't made them more awful, it's just revealed how awful they've always been but now have a way to express themselves, whether it's by generating trash or trying to grift people with it.
>>98069028Well it would be great if they could reveal themselves somewhere else away from decent people. Shit is both annoying and destructive.
>>98069077Would you prefer they didn't reveal themselves and did all their shit in less obvious ways? Less annoying maybe, but much more destructive.
>>98069087I'm not sure it actually would be, given that normal, less obvious awfulness doesn't drive energy prices through the roof in the same way.
>>98069087I would prefer if they choked on a dick so hard they puked on their internet router then fell on their cellphones in a way that the phone got stuck up their ass so they were stuck off line until they stop fagging up the rest of the internet with their spam. I also don't agree that they would be doing the same shit a different way at anywhere near the same scale if they didn't have access to AI which makes such mass spam so effortless.
>>98069116It's kind of hard to compare raising energy prices versus drowning kittens in a river, so I guess the only silver lining is at least some kittens didn't have to suffer.
>>98069087You'd need to prove a case that revealing them in this way somehow stops them from being awful in others.
>>98069311I think it's just easier to show other people.There's lots of way a scumbag can try to hide they're a scumbag, which is why it's good to take any signs you can. All these grifter types really should only get a one-strike-you're-out policy applied to them.
>>98068820I don't buy this argument for a fucking second.You go on YouTube, and go fucking HELP you if you use an AI thumbnail. Even if it's a small channel, less than 10k subs, and the creator has another day jump.Bitch comment and bitch and whine and decry the AI slop when it's literally just being used for a thumbnail by people to save time. It isn't being SHOVED IN SOMEONES FACE. They could literally just ignore the video. Or block the channel.But no, these people MUST comment on how LE AI SLOP LE BAD.
>>98069447Your English is failing you bro.
>>98068360Chill bro, it's just a little image.>>98068525I see, at least he didn't blow it on hookers and gambling.
>>98069447>But no, these people MUST comment on how LE AI SLOP LE BAD.Yes. Antisocial and anticultural behavior must be called out, humiliated, and punished to whatever degree is possible.
>>98063418you wouldn't be able to tell a Monet from a Manet
>>98063561Cool. I want my work to have pretty pictures and not have to pay an arm and a leg for them.
>>98063804The rules are fine. Please provide an example where the rules don't work.
>>98064056Nobody has yet shown what rules in the game are broken and don't work out of the box.
>>98069536OH SHIT.
>>98062806I think it would be borderline, the description of the kickstarter would suggest the product is as advertised, but is just of lower quality than the backer might assume, thats not scam country. The dubious part is the discord message because even if "majority" per the creator was true in his mind because of something like only counting major art pieces whereas the consumer is looking at everything, it will be perceived as deliberate deception.If youre going to do this its important to keep statements vague and not to give answers questions that can be quantifiably disproven. Try and keep use of AI by your "artist" deniable as well, communicate with them as if it were an ordinary art commission, dont directly reference or ask about their tools and if they mention anything about AI themselves completely ignore it. Also if you cant or won't change something people are criticizing you for just dont talk about it.
>>98064476Pretty sure that's how ADnD titles worked, at least for magic users at any rate. Bunch of fancy names then eventually it's just Wizard 10th level, Wizard 11th level etc. Makes sense for an OSR project to copy that. Also makes sense from a design perspective. It's annoying as hell to find 10+ unique, synonymous names for every class, especially if you have classes with thematic overlap.
>>98067878>>98069499>Inconsistent light source direction>Higher than natural saturation levels for the implied medium>Minimal level correction and no blending on the backgrounds to make the foregrounds pop>No ground shadows on the focal character, thus making him look cheaply pasted over a dedicated background image.any one of these could be forgiven, but all four at once is 100% AI-isms and takes anyone with taste out of the image.
>>98063948>the amount of promotion it gets even on 4chan definitely seems outsized.ACKS doesn't actually get any promotion on 4chan. There are 2-3 guys who run it and like it, and then the rest of ACKSposting is pretty much entirely dedicated to triggering the autist who made this thread and continues to seethe about the rules ITT because his comical, disproportionate rage about this inoffensive system has been disruptive to OSR threads previously.
>>98069676>Pretty sure that's how ADnD titles workedIt is (and how OD&D and Basic D&D titles worked as well). This guy just hates ACKS so much he tries to throw everything possible at it, even things that are obviously stupid with a few moments' research.
>ACKS shill posting in total desperationIt's amazing what people will do for a paycheck.
>>98069499>>98069693>Tiny trees in the left, enormous trees on the right>Just an atrocious archery stanceThis isn't even remotely good past the slightest glance. >>98064775>I have to help my parents out all the time by basically being their final check on if something is a scam or not.They're lucky to have you, Anon.
>>98069808He's been seething the whole time about it. OP even did him a kindness by not just calling out ACKS in the OP.
>>98069693>Higher than natural saturation levels for the implied mediumNah, you can easily get this type of saturation with marker pens. It's not even unusual.
>>98069808>>98069852>4000% mad
>>98069499He isn't even sighting along the shaft.
>>98068778Fucking this. Imagine being enough of a self-hating moron to declare "I will break the Lefty monopoly on art by declaring that Righties aren't capable of competing. Checkmate Lefties!">>98069087Yes. I miss the days before the internet where extremists and other crazies had no way to access an audience, or each other.Some problems can't be solved by ignoring them, but loud idiots is not one of those problems. They deserve to be ignored.
>>98069902The issue with ignoring idiots is that they'll recruit other idiots into the fold AND those idiots have the same amount of political clout that you do. More, in fact, because there's more of them.
>>98069959It was much harder for them to recruit other idiots before the internet empowered them to find each other. Alas.
>>98069808If he starts acting up more, we can just post more pages so more people can see the kind of grift the game is.>>98068820Really hate when a grifter goes for a "they're only mad cuz thet're left" or "they are just being a mean silly goose because they are maga" defense, followed by a "you should trust me because we share poltical allegiances" to their victims.
>>98064500The banana was meant to prove you pay for clout not for art, the clout was buying a piece from a popular artist who was testing the concept. And people bought it, because they're not paying for a banana, they're paying for a story, context, and that context is "this already famous artist made this piece, since the guy is already famous it gets covered, since it gets covered is controversial, since its controversial its attractive" People can barely name a Classical Period painting but bet your ass they know what banan you're talking about. You may not like it, but that's the commentary it makes.
>>98069499H-h-he's naked!
>>98070023The banana guy is basically Ralph Fiennes from The Menu but he hasn't started killing people (yet?).
>>98063561>7 out of 142~ people actually said they would like a work of art more if they learned it was created by AIThere are at least 7 robots running around amongst us.
>>98068525>"Why is he confessing?">"He's not confessing, he's bragging."
>>98062806That's the kind of scam you have to be particularly soulless to commit.Making people lose faith in games is just nasty.
>>98062806>kickstarter>Would that qualify as a scam?yes, further context is unnecessary
Those guys from Dune had the right idea.
>>98071851Compressing the dead to drink their water?
>>98072017Among other things, yes.
>>98068778I should add that art is something to treasure. An artist can bring to life through his own unique vision what the author wants in his own way. It is tradition and techniques that are brought forward into the contemporary world. AI art, in its current form, does not. AI has no real intentionality, no decision making or even makes good mistakes. It can only make average decisions based on what is input into a prompt. As for recreational use, sure there are some rare gems, but AI art is but a crude facsimile of what artists can provide. Artwork, whether amateur or professional skill, makes ideas come to life.
>>98062806The only bragging about the art is the mention of Micheal Syrigos art which is used to open each chapter. Fundamentally, to those that backed or have read the crowdfunding page, it is clearly trying to sell the depth and breadth of the system. Nice try at reframing the situation though. Feel free to keep larping as a whatever varity of catgirl you'd like in whatever system you feel most comfortable storyfagging with.
