so, what causes this?
>>98066066Tolkien wrote elves as silly little guys who sang songs in the forest. It's only their kings who are strong and wise (and I guess Golfindel)Also, Traditional Games?
>>98066094He had time to later express discomfort that they kept portraying Legolas as a twink when he's supposed to be "tall as a young tree" and highly athletic. The Elves aren't like keebler elves, they're Aryan Supermen.
>>98066094No he didn't.
>>98066132No one actually cares, that's the thing.
>>98066066A lot of things.But most can fall under autism.Just avoid the example types your pic shows if you encounter them at the lgs. Minimize interaction if you can’t avoid them.Even if you’re the most polite lad on the planet you will slip up and they’ll get offended and that will be it.It is just for the good of you and those kinds of ttrpg partakers.
>>98066066Pic related shows numerous examples of elves who aren't the example you're bitching about.Even one exception cancels out "every", but I wanted to go the extra mile.Get fucked.
>>98066066It's very simple:>elf chicks are tall, graceful golden-haired statuesque bitches of ethereal beauty, never grow old>"okay cool, so this is the hot-chick race">BUT no man actually finds willowy sylphlike beauty fuckable, it's just abstractly beautiful, elegant>okay fine the elves are short golden-haired bitches with curves for days>great, but that means the men have to be correspondingly short and twinky or it doesn't make sense>sure, who cares
I want a hot twink elf
>>98066190No one gives a shit about non-Tolkien derivative elves, they might as well be fairies or Santa's little helpers
>>98066360Talking about it, after reading pre Tolkien's works, the split between fairies and elves was already a thing.They are mentioned separately in older works such as Howard's.
>>98066360So then tell that to OP, whose premise is "every" elf "after the fact".
Who the fuck cares? Are you really saying fantasy should be MORE derivative?
>>98066360Every.
>>98066418In this case, being actually derivative is the breath of fresh air.
>>98066430No it isn't.>uhhh my elves are super strong and powerful and manly and better then everyone elsethis shit is doing HFY without humans. it sucks. you're not cool or interesting for aping Tolkien while having zero of his skill and his ability to tie it all down to a mythological register
>>98066066Traditional games?
>>98066066Elves should be evil and pointlessly cruel denizens of a decaying empire. British, in other words.
>>98066066My Elves are Yoda Pugs, reaching back to old Gnome and Faeri beliefs.
Tolkien wrote the elves as cases of sufficiently advanced aliens - alien to men, not the world itself, mind youThey’re basically hippy Nordic aliens
>>98066066We already have a dedicated elf general. Please refer to them for your elf questions
>>98066066Elfin (adj)>relating to elves>small and delicateA mystery no professor of English can solve.
>>98066190>Megaman ZeroOh you clever motherfucker.
>>98067221Basically this
>>98067381
People are uncomfortable with elves being just better humans. So they invent or exaggerate traits until they are "different human" rather than "better human".
>>98067198Nah, humans should be the denizens of a decaying empire while the other races slowly grow in power.
>>98067445But I want to escape from reality, not reproduce it.
>>98066132>Aryan SupermenYou think Tolkien wrote elves to be Indo-Iranian? Oh, you mean Aryan like your fetishized cowardly little National Socialists tried to redefine the term. "Ayran" is a self-designated identity. Y'know... like the modern use of political pronouns and all-gendered bathrooms.Tolkein almost certainly had the Lappish/Proto Norse perspective in mind, not your incel masturbation fantasy of Übermensch. Come out of the closet, your beating for being an Aryan Obese Twink awaits.
>>98067445are you calling me britishi, you fuck?those are fighting words
In the games I run, I usually give elves animal ears and animal tails, and reserve the traditional pointy-eared look for half-elves.Elves already have nature-themed associations, so I do not find this to be too great a stretch.And yes, I often wind up giving them touches of East Asian culture, mostly China due to gacha brain rot.
>>98067453I play Mothership to imagine>what if my shitty gig job finally killed me?
>>98066066I don't care what some b*ittish autist wrote about elves
>>98066132The elves in Tolkien are the fairies of medieval romances. They are people but better from a world that is connected to ours but not entirely within it. Just read some medieval poetry. The dude was really in to it, it would help you understand better.
>>98067475Might as well ask.Does Chinese gacha portray Chinese culture and aesthetics as cool and where do I start on weeaboo but Chinese history reading?I want to raise my social credit score here.
>>98067502>Does Chinese gacha portray Chinese culture and aesthetics as coolYes, always.
>>98067502Play any Chinese-made gacha game from 2020 onwards, especially a HoYo game.
>>98066066Dungeon&Dragons. That bonus to DEX, penalty to CON has more influence on elves than Tolkien.
>>98066066Tolkien's elves are a race of nobles and highborn. Every individual elf is at the very least of lower nobility compared to the regular human.And we, the modern 21st-century, democratic, meritocratic humans, can't deal with that. Tolkien with his Christian mind was willing to except, even be glad for, something higher to exist, something more divine and spiritual. An ideal to strive for. He made elves as something mortals could look up to. Many writers after him took great offense at that, since they instinctively feel like they should be nothing above humanity. They want to look down on elves to prove their own superiority. That something could be born better is an insult to their mediocrity.Excuse the rant.The actual answer is probably that ye olden D&D made an attempt to balance elves out (at least mechanically), thus making them about +DEX and magic. They get increasingly pigeonholed into that niche of DEX-faggotry-only. Writers also tend to really focus hard on "fallen elven empire" without the nuance, grace and tragedy of Tolkien's elves, making them dumb assholes that deserved it for doing elf shit. So you get a dimished copy that gets parodied and then copied and then parodied, and the end result is anime girls with pointy ears or femboys.
>>98066066Honestly, blonde men looks quite gay.
>>98066066As with the majority of fantasy it's not actually based on Tolkien. Instead the majority of what we understand as modern fantasy is based on Dragonlance. Deny it all you want it's the truth.
>>98066094Fpbp
>>98067456The other anon was retarded, but you're a faggot redditor.
>>98067605Replace this with Conan and Lovecraft to be more precise.
>>98067370I really like how they did elves across the series, and how they tied major plot points of two games to an elf.
>>98067456Hello saar
>>98067480>The elves in Tolkien are the fairies of medieval romances. They are people but better from a world that is connected to ours but not entirely within it.That's literally the same thing.
>>98067456I'm thinking based and redpilled
>>98067589The actual answer is that Gygax and the original D&D crowd were HFY fags and made elves short twinks to make up for their own mediocrity. It plays into the inherent cuckoldry of libertarianism. You were halfway on the money.
>>98067814>It plays into the inherent cuckoldry of libertarianismTolkien was very libertarian himself, though.
>>98067456what a completely unfounded and embarrassing meltdown.People use 'aryan' as slang for whites for 80 years anon, it's not really something worth being upset about.
>>98067616No.
>>98066360Tolkien elves can only exist in Tolkien universe. They are carefully webbed in that setting. Everywhere else, they feel off and lose everything that makes Tolkien elves great or feel like Mary Sues.
>>98067445Humans should be fundamentalist jihadists hell bent on exterminating lesser races
>>98067456>>98067456Indo-iranian is a sub race of Aryan (they themself say it) Aryan are themself a sub race of Atlantean. Who where the ultimate Übermensh.What did separate the Aryan from the Atlantean is the fact that they were the first blonde and blue eyes one. They left Atlantis to colonised the north of actual Europe and later on sub divised in scandinavian, german and slavic and after the fall of Atlantis go futher south conquering Middle East and India.
>>98068122It's very funny how people talk about Atlantis. We literally know where Atlantis came from: Plato made it up.Plato is literally some shit Plato invented to serve as an example of how not to run a state. They lost a war to the Athenians, anon, then were punished with extinction by the gods for their hubris.Few things are less embarrassing then pretending this shit Plato invented for a story is the origin of your ethnicity.
>Plato is literally some shit Plato invented
>>98066066For me, it's that Elves in almost all of my settings don't need to be Tolkienien.And Tolkienien Elves need explanation and balance to make sense in the natural order of things, without being a Robert 'Chud' Howard Aryan power wank.'A dying race' is just edgelord fluff. Doesn't actually balance an individual elf.In practical terms, a kitchen sink fantasy benefits more from Elves having flaws to match their strengths.It gives you room to make the strengths strengths, and the flaws add more flavour.>Orcs are strong but dull witted. They could be industrious and powerful, but they lack the vision, or tend to kill the ones who present it after a long enough time.>Dwarves are hardy and clever but small in mind and body. They can march a night, fight a day, and forge you a timepiece from a solid block of iron, but they're stunted, greedy, and as prone to vices as they are stubborn about them.>Elves are beautiful, long-lived, refined and dexterous, but they're not hardy or strong.This makes them balanced so they actually can have meaningful dex and wis/int bonus', but also have to use them to balance their flaws.So while one of my game settings involves 7-15 foot tall magical fae warrior-scholars who can throw a spear at a target on the moon, don't make sense under a microscope, and reproduce by educating a forest animal into an elf over 'millennia', another one has 5'2 waifs who live in secretive semi-nomadic villages that camouflage into the trees, or citystates hidden behind layers of environmental hazards in the deep forests, because they know they haven't a hope in pitched battle against any other species.
>>98068163>not inventing yourself into existencengmi
>>98068739>Dunmer are Aryans from the dreamseelve who mantled Plato into making AtlantisI fucking knew it.
>>98066066>so, what causes this?Folklore.Tokin didn't invent elves. They were all over folklore and the term was never strict or particularly consistent in it's application or description. Everything from tiny invisible sprites that could dance on the head of a pin all the way to giant giga-chad super warriors, to what today would be called goblins, dwarves, or fairies, were all at some point and somewhere called a elves. They can pretty much be whatever to a certain extent. That's why in games like D&D there are so many different kinds of elf regardless of how little most games and media use most of them.
>>98068878>That's why in games like D&D there are so many different kinds of elfThe elf races in actual game systems aren't "whatever the fuck", they share basic core traits. In general, high-fantasy elves differ a lot from mythological elves. Especially since elves and fairies are often separate races in these games, existing side by side.And usually, there are many different subraces for many races, not just elves. To sell splatbooks.So tl;dr: Yes, elves before Tolkien-Dunsay were not uniform, but their take codified the high-fantasy elf race, which tends to be the one we encounter in actual games.
What does "every" mean?
Elves should be Greek and humans should be Roman into Western European, complete with greekaboo tendencies.
>>98066066Elves should be gigaChad/Stacy people who are not the subtle stand-in for the ideal White race.
>>98066066More people today find the right-hand image attractive than the left-hand image.
>>98069290because it is
>>98067198>Elves should be evil and pointlessly cruel denizens of a decaying empire. British, in other words.Quite.
>>98068163>as an example of how not to run a stateNo, no, he's got a point
>>98067456Aryan just means "noble" and has cognates in literally every PIE derived language you faggot. The Indio in IndoAryan, has next to nothing to do with "actual" Indians by the way, before you try peddle that bait
>>98067587This.The notion that elves are weak is 100% D&D giving them -1 to constitution back on some old grog edition no one cares about anymore.I'm really not sure why this entire thread devolved into such nonsense when the answer is obvious.
>>98070176Incredible that no one in this thread has mentioned this. Seems almost like occult knowledge that 'aryan' referred to what modern scholars call 'PIE speakers'.
>>98070337The obvious answer is that not every elf after Tolkien's elves is like that.
>>98068155This. Plato did a couple dialogues to express how an ideal republic should function, and some others detailing how greed, hubris, and ambition can ruin even that which could be perceived as perfection.
>>98067610>>98067627>>98067890>>98068122>>98070176Thank you for your letter. I regret that I am not clear as to what you intend by arisch. I am not of Aryan extraction: that is Indo-Iranian; as far as I am aware none of my ancestors spoke Hindustani, Persian, Gypsy, or any related dialects. But if I am to understand that you are enquiring whether I am of Jewish origin, I can only reply that I regret that I appear to have no ancestors of that gifted people. My great-great-grandfather came to England in the eighteenth century from Germany: the main part of my descent is therefore purely English, and I am an English subject—which should be sufficient. I have been accustomed, nonetheless, to regard my German name with pride, and continued to do so throughout the period of the late regrettable war, in which I served in the English army. I cannot, however, forbear to comment that if impertinent and irrelevant inquiries of this sort are to become the rule in matters of literature, then the time is not far distant when a German name will no longer be a source of pride.Your enquiry is doubtless made in order to comply with the laws of your own country, but that this should be held to apply to the subjects of another state would be improper, even if it had (as it has not) any bearing whatsoever on the merits of my work or its sustainability for publication, of which you appear to have satisfied yourselves without reference to my Abstammung.-Some fag, probably
>>98067381>>98067426Don’t the elves have auras? Aren’t they capable of reading auras? Their shine has a warding effect against the Nazgûl. They greatly dislike its glow.
>>98066132>"tall as a young tree" and highly athletic.>>98066094>silly guys who sang songs in the forest.it's bothB O T H>>98067456calm down retard
>>98066066>using photos to describe things that were described in writing with accompanying illustrations drawn by the original author himselfYou probably think you're the first clump of feces to realize that you can just say what the fuck ever on the internet.
>>98067814Not really. If I remember they had to make elves different from Tolkien elves, also change a few things to make them on even footing with humans and other races. Many in TSR loved Elves and it was quite clear that elves were a fan favorite along with half-elves.
>>98070661the irony is that genetics have revealed the PIE, while not blond or blue eyed, were genetically closest to northern euros
>>98068190What's with people having a hate boner over Robert Howard making a cool character people like? Do you guys think people will think you're cool by saying that like a fucking hippter or something?Though I agree that races should have flaws to counter their strengths, and don't mind the human being the "jack of all trades" race. As it help with why they wide spread and have the most kingdoms/nations. (Live long enough but have more than enough children to spread unlike elves, and can live just about anywhere unlike the Dwarves, as well can interact with other races where most don't just attack on sight like other races do with the orcs.)
>>98071163Considering as well that the upper caste indians are paler than the average indian, I kind of just assumed they did have pale skin, at least.
>>98071163Ironically that would be pretty sad news to the nazis, who believed the "aryans" ruled over from like the Rhine to Siberia at the very least, and used it as an ideological basis.
>>98071227To be fair. Most "non-black" races saw paler skins as noble as that often meant you didn't go out in the sun to work. Japan, China, etc. Same with things like having long nails, or being fat. It was ways of showing your status more than looking "white/aryan"
>>98067652I'm trans, by the way.
>>98068190>without being a Robert 'Chud' Howard Aryan power wank.>Aryan power wank.>REH.Kings of the Night made it clear that his mcs aren't german or vikings.Conan was described as a southerner by the proto vikings from the ice giant's daughter.
Mutts and gooks ruined elves.
>>98071182>What's with people having a hate boner over Robert Howard making a cool character people like? Do you guys think people will think you're cool by saying that like a fucking hippter or something?Anti-Tolkien brigade made it so you cannot have a competent or idealized MMC in male focused works.You need to read female targeting works to find giga Chads.
>>98071558The worst aspects of the modern elves came from a British writer (Moorcock)
>>98071592Nobody cares about your niche name-drop author, gooks ruined elves by making them gooner bait and mutts by making them "humans but good mages/archers or algo"
>>98068190>Robert 'Chud' Howard Aryanhello plebbit
>>98066066He wrote them as being fit, not as homoerotic gym rats. You have body dysmorphia.
>>98068031hello 40k
>>98066066Trannies and women have invaded the space because roleplaying games are tranny pipelines of the left
>>98067616I don't really see it, anon. Orcoids bang elves and kill non-eucledian life forms all the time in modern fantasy.
>>98070661the fact that Tolkien opposed the particular race theory of the Nazis doesn't mean that he would endorse contemporary left wing projects or identify with it; he clearly would be counted as a chud under today's satandards
>>98067825Tolkien opposed a planned economy and extensive fiscality but I'm not sure he can be described as similar to today's libertarians. He did support a free market of some sort, but his ideal was a small scale medieval market with a small local pool of producers, directs sellers and buyers exchanging mainly raw material and handmade products according to implicit moral rules fobidding some practices like price gouging and usury and immoral products like porn or weed. He wouldn't have endorsed what most libertarians today call a free market, which for most of them mean, a globalized and financiarized abstract entity where people who never actually meet face to face can exchange mass produced identical commodities, processed tasteless food, migrant workers belonging to foreign cultures, insanely high sums of fictitious scriptural money and cheap sex and drugs.
>>98071856Tolkien's favorite economic system that you describe here is called distributism and in his time every conservative christian thinker supported ityou should look it up
I'm not gonna bother reading 100 posts to find out if someone even asked the OP which elf depiction he's referring to in the right image. Like which franchise even depicts elf men that way? Are you talking about the LOTR movie and show? Some fantasy video game? RPG artwork? Where are you seeing this shit?
>>98067502Play Chinese and Taiwanese wuxia/xianxia RPG vidya instead of gacha
>>98072166Elric is a frail twink elf so there's thatBut that's more to do with him being literally sick than elves being inherently frail twinks in that setting
>>98071856>My political opinions lean more and more to Anarchy (philosophically understood, meaning abolition of control not whiskered men with bombs) – or to ‘unconstitutional’ Monarchy.>I would arrest anybody who uses the word State (in any sense other than the inanimate realm of England and its inhabitants, a thing that has neither power, rights nor mind); and after a chance of recantation, execute them if they remained obstinate! If we could get back to personal names, it would do a lot of good. Government is an abstract noun meaning the art and process of governing and it should be an offence to write it with a capital G or so as to refer to people. If people were in the habit of referring to ‘King George’s council, Winston and his gang’, it would go a long way to clearing thought, and reducing the frightful landslide into Theyocracy.>Anyway the proper study of Man is anything but Man; and the most improper job of any man, even saints (who at any rate were at least unwilling to take it on), is bossing other men. Not one in a million is fit for it, and least of all those who seek the opportunity. And at least it is done only to a small group of men who know who their master is.>where people who never actually meet face to face can exchange mass produced identical commoditiesAbsolutely nothing stopping you from going to your local market buying local goods. Including in a free market economy. You are confusing a variety of things. Libertarians often stress the importance of local communities. A lot of problem solving in libertarian ideas happens in small scale local communities.
>>98067456Well clearly I touched a nerve Anon, and I'm sorry, but I think in 2026 everyone knows what "Aryan Superman" means colloquially. Flying into a histrionic fit because you don't know anything about migrations from the pontic step 6,000 years ago is embarassing and I would encourage you to take a break from the internet lmao.
>abhorrent post>anime girl with pointy ears from shitty isekaiChecks out.
>>98067627Some major Jamboy energy in this thread desu.
>>98071182>>98071534>>98071735>>98071582>No! No R.E Howard wasn't racist. He loved all races and thought of them all equally impressive, he just made cool characters and their race had nothing to do with how cool, how primitive, how disgusting or how treacherous they were.Why do people insist on trying to pretend RE Howard wasn't racist?His Conan works are decent, in that Conan has 'bronzed skin' and the 'giant blacks' are described in semi-supernatural tones instead of just being regular people, but it's very much an outlier in all his works. Most of which you can scale how 'chad' a character will be, by how white they are (excepting those cast as Picts, who are clearly negroes in all but colour).A full half of 'The Valley of the Worm' is just talking about how flatly superior the Aryan white was next to any other ethnicity at everything, and how tragic it is that race-mixing diluted that superiority down so much.I mean, you can still read his books, him being distinctly racist won't stop you. But pretending he wasn't is like pretending he was a woman.
>>98066132>"tall as a young tree"
>>98071163>The people that are the major genetic component of everyone north of Marseille are closely related ShockerThe most "remote" Northern Europeans concentrated more WSH admixture though, because there was less EEF/WHG populations there to start with - so Norweigans, Icelandics, North of Scotland, Ireland, Sweden (though they still retain majority male line "native" HG y dna)Yes WSH were relatively "dark" (lighter than HGs) but did apparently carry the mutation for "light hair and skin" (from ANEs of all people, probably rarely "expressed" as "arctic" populations actually tend to darken due to sun exposure somewhat counter intuitively). It makes sense that in the 54ish+ lattitude strip, lightening of the skin would be advantageous and most expressed. Blue eyes are from WHG but the WSH were slightly "pre-mixed" with those before they got to Europe, so I don't know whether they picked it up "here" or beforeI think SHG may have already had blondism and lightish skin though
>>98071228They "did" though depending on the time frame
>>98066094lurk more/tg/ isn't just for traditional games bit for fantasy and scifi discussion in general
>>98073051This is being overly reductive and pedantic the same way calling something the size of a young man wouldn't be calling it the size of a baby.
