To answer my own question, I do not think it's required but can set a mood for a very sword & sorcery type game. I have evolved over the years to liking milestones, but pure up xp, gold for xp or a hybrid style can be fine.

I do feel how you get XP can impact the feel you are going for in a game

>>98172577
>Do you think XP for gold is absolutely required for an OSR experience?
Duh.

>>98172589
>I do not think it's required
Wrong.

>>98173232
You are allowed your opinion. I have never found it a "must have". As I said, to me it gives a set vibe but that's more S&S than anything

>>98172577
>Thread Question: Do you think XP for gold is absolutely required for an OSR experience?
Basically yes as far as I'm concerned. It ties exploration as the core gameplay loop, which has all the other things in it like combat, puzzle solving, parley, factions, etc.
Without that it doesn't really work, there aren't any sufficiently effective motivators and if you're getting into heavily rp based gameplay or heavily combat based gameplay there are far better systems and styles for both those things.

>>98173268
>You are allowed your opinion.
I don't need your permission.

>>98172577
Not in the slightest. OSR is a retro-movement that tries to emulate how D&D was actually played in the first decade, and nobody used it outside of the RPGA events and only to tally points.
>>98173349
But you do need to prove that you're not one of the discord trannies raiding all things OSR.

So what would the gameplay be? What alternative xp sources have you actually run and explain how they are OSR.

>>98173339
Your first point is fair enough. That is the way you view it.

>>Without that it doesn't really work, there aren't any sufficiently effective motivators and if you're getting into heavily rp based gameplay or heavily combat based gameplay there are far better systems and styles for both those things.

Here I disagree. You don't need XP as gold to drive you. Gold is its own reward, and XP for exploring, fighting does, solving puzzles and so on are motivations.

As for RP, systems are subjective. I have played scores of systems over the years and you can RP in all of them. Which you like best is subjective

>>98173359
I don't use it when I GM and outside a few retroclone games I was a player in, I have never used it

>>98172577
I don't think it's a hard requirement, but it's a very easy and convenient means of measuring gaining experience from a combination of exploration, combat, puzzle solving, and a bit of diplomacy. You could come up with XP values for each of those things individually, but you're just giving yourself extra work.

>>98173359
I've been on 4chan for one decade longer than you have, newfag.

>>98172577
>Do you think XP for gold is absolutely required for an OSR experience?
Of course. It's a hard requirement. Anyone who says otherwise is a 2etard who thinks "OSR" means "nostalgia for Mormon products".

>>98172589
>I do not think it's required
It's required.

>pure up xp
What does this even mean?

>>98173268
>I have never found it a "must have".
Then you're mistaken and you don't know anything about the old-school revival. Simple as.

>>98173359
>nobody used it outside of the RPGA events and only to tally points
The schizo alt-histories are getting even more bizarre than before.

>>98173376
>it's all subjective maaaan, it's just your opinion maaaaaaaaaaan
No. Anon's right. It's a hard requirement, it's part of the definition of OSR. OSR doesn't just mean whatever you feel like having it mean.

>>98173560
Fair enough on it being convenient.vI personally don't find it to be much work to change it but others well might
>>98174902
>>What does this even mean
It means XP is awarded for doing things, not just by gold you happen to find

>>98174915
>>It's a hard requirement, it's part of the definition of OSR.

This is a false cliam. Now, you feeling like you need it to get the full experience is fine, but OSR does not have a checklist of things you must include.

>>98175210
>This is a false cliam.
No, it's a true claim. You can't just contradict it without arguments.

>>98175397
You made the cliam, with no evidence. Please show me this requirement checklist every OSR community has agreed to.

>>98175417
>cannot even spell simple words
>bizarre strawman arguments about contracts
>expects to be taken seriously and responded to as an adult
thisuserisunderage.png

>>98175481
Ah once more logical fallacies and nothing to back the cliam you a made. Me saying produce this list you claim exists is not a strawman.

1: You made a claim OSR has requirements
2: I rejected your cliam
3: You stated I could not as I had no argument
4: I stated you made a baseless claim and to provide this requirement list
5: You couldn't but did commit one of the most common logical fallacies in response.

Now we are caught up. One more you claimed thiete is a list of requirements. I am asking you to provide this agreed upon list.

>>98173380
So what did your game you 'gm'd without gp for xp look like and how did you maintain its osrness?

>>98173359
Lying subhuman retard. Kill yourself.

>>98175668
It looked like a normal game. Ya know, exploring an area, raiding dungeons for loot, stopping a gang of bandits and a demon cult. Standard stuff.

The group just didn't gsin xo from gold, they got it from killing or defeating lobsters, solving puzzles, exploring dungeons and so on. Normal XP rewards.

Outside of OSR I do milestone advancement, but there is something about gaining XP that is so part of the OSR experience for me.

>>98175698
>>defeating lobsters
okay I got a few misspellings there but this autocorrect is great. I need to have a party fight giant lobsters now

>>98175210
You too. What does it actually play like, in a way you have run, without GP for XP?
Post examples from your game.

>>98175417
>cliam
>>98175210
>cliam
It would be a lot easier for you to get away with all of your subversive bullshit if you were actually literate.

>I don't think GP for XP is a requirement, and it was never used historically, only at tournaments!
Your opinions are so worthless that they are actually negative contributions to the overall psyche of the community.

>>98175698
>Normal XP rewards
That is arbitrary storyshitting / DM fiat awards, has absolutely nothing to do with osr play.

>>98175698
No, that sounds like a normal game of 5.5. or 3rd ed. Or Barbarians of Lemuira. Or Dungeon World.
>exploring an area, raiding dungeons for loot, stopping a gang of bandits and a demon cult.
is bog standard anything fantasy game. What makes that osr?
Why do they care about loot? Have you made milestone loot based on when you feel like it?
How do you do exploration xp? None of the things you listed add up to anything resembling normal level progression. Do they just loot to buy items?
Why do they care about exploring at all? How do you encourage that in the game? Is it quests?

>>98174897
The alternatives for xp to gold started in 1e.

>>98175738
Unearthed arcana was also a first edition book, it doesn't mean that the content in it is automatically good or desirable

>>98175710
It plays like any other game man. How you are rewarded xp has zero impact on the play mechanics

>>98175727
Once more, this is a logical fallacy. You are not addressing my argument

>>98175748
Nevertheless, it soundly falsifies the argument that non gold xp is a 2eism.

>>98175756
>How you are rewarded xp has zero impact on the play mechanics
7/10, got me to reply but you went too hard with this one.

>>98175734
this is incorrect. It's not Random or GM fiat to have a list of rewards. Hell that is what XP for gold is. A listed reward.

>>98175736
>>, that sounds like a normal game of 5.5. or 3rd ed. Or Barbarians of Lemuira. Or Dungeon World

You can do basic fantasy in a lot of different rulesets. They don't play the same. Run the same basic "adventure" in 5e, 3e, swords and wizardry and let's say savage worlds. You get a very, very different experience

>>What makes that osr?
The play experience as I explained

>>Why do they care about loot?
I have rarely seen a character that did not care about loot. Hell even paladins want a cut to donate or tithe.

>>Have you made milestone loot based on when you feel like it?

Not in OSR games. You could do it a number of ways though.

>>How do you do exploration xp?
Normally a set amount for hex covered, extra for finding and overcoming hazards

>>Why do they care about exploring at all? How do you encourage that in the game? Is it quests?

Depends on the game. If we agree to an exploration based game, it is not my job to make sure your character fits that game. If we are doing a sea based game and you make a character that refuses to go near water, that is not the GMs issue.

>>98175592
>the cliam you a made
jej

>>98175807
Nobody said random, I said arbitrary. Please learn what words mean before you start saying stupid stuff.
And yes, arbitrary story awards are absolutely under the category of DM Fiat.

When is the last time you played d&d? How long did the campaign last? What system did you play?

>>98175807
Yeah, okay so you're not playing osr or are in the
>WoD is osr if I want it to be
camp. Good to know.
>ignores the level progression part
>doesn't post any system mechanics or discussion of that
>normal for a set amount of hexes
again, how does that line up with any level progression in an osr game? Post your example from the game you played.

>>98175698
>disavows XP for gold
>shitter XP rewards are "normal"
Non-OSR baitfag-posting

>>98175738
Nobody who is a fan of 1e in current year cares for alternatives to XP for gold.

>>98175756
>system doesn't matter
Anon's right, you went full retard. Dial it back next time.

>>98175859
Once more, then do is XP for gold.

>>When is the last time you played d&d? How long did the campaign last? What system did you play?

Currently playing in a 5e game and a OSE game. The 5e game is about a year in and wrapping up soon, the OSE game about 3 months so far.

I am currently running two none D&D games, one is approaching 3 years and the other is a new campaign started in March. I have a 3rd game starting soon and have been working on something for a future sword and Wizardry game once one of my current games wraps up.

I tend to jump games and systems, running and playing in a verity of games.

>>98175937
Again, nobody here needs your permission to do anything.

You are the one who came here asking a question, and when you got an overwhelming consensus from the community, continue stomping your feet and protesting.

Please go back to whatever website you came from, we hate you here.

>>98175864
I have ran and played OSR games

>> again, how does that line up with any level progression in an osr game?

Like any other XP gain. You the GM control that. Even if it's gold, you control that.

>>Post your example from the game you played.

Currently a player in an OSE game, so can't tell you about the GM side there

>>98175944
Your comment seems totally unrelated to the post you linked

I got no issue if it's a must for you. I do have an issue when someone makes a wild claim about all OSR games are x, but can't back up that cliam.

>>98175886
Now this is a strawman. I did not say what you claimed. Y'all really don't understand system mechanics at all. How can you run a game system and have no understanding of it?

>>98175883
Yes yes. They're not true scotsmans etc.

>>98175983
>if it's a must for you
It's a must for osr, end of paragraph.

>>98175937
Does the OSE game run xp for gold?
If no, how much xp have you gotten so far? How does that work in a way where you explore a dungeon for any reason at all if its not just wotc style quests and gm fiat?
>>98175963
The GM, or DM more properly, should be rolling that randomly and adjusting if anything is strongly anomalous, not just pulling out out of their ass.
You haven't posted anything that seems like you actually play any osr games, just that one of them uses OSE ruleset. You can use a ruleset for all kinds of shit.

>>98176023
>Y'all
Eat shit you fake-hillbilly newfag. You came here from RPGnet in February, your opinion is worth less than nothing.

>>98176187
Explain why, Bucause thier are OSR games without it.

>>98175738
>More schizo alt histories.

>>98175983
>all OSR games are x, but can't back up that cliam.
"anon" you're the one making the claim and its substantiated by what? That you played an osr game once? Maybe?
None of your explanations of how it would work make any sense and have no examples.

Give this series of blogposts a read. They're a fairly good explanation of what fundamental osr dungeon crawling is and how it operates, with a loose definition. Even Gus admits xp for gold as the primary source is key.
https://alldeadgenerations.blogspot.com/2025/03/an-introduction-to-dungeon-crawling.html
Its a good series in general and I advise reading it. I can find more sources if you want. But I need you to be able to post an actual reply where you find concrete examples of play from your game that is osr and not xp for gold, and backing sources.

>>98175963
>t. Moron

You literally do not control gold acquisition by the PCs unless you railroad the everloving fuck out of them (which you don't if it's anything like an OSR game). They can defeat some awful monster and then walk right past its hoard like a bunch of (you)s i.e. retards, gaining nothing.

>>98175761
>this is a logical fallacy
False again. We've already established you don't know what those are any more than you can spell. Go back to school

>>98176222
No there aren't, by definition.

>>98176246
Claiming logical fallacies where there aren't any is one of Fishfag's established tics.

>>98175781
More samefag alt history lies.

>>98176190
>>Does the OSE game run xp for gold
The one I am currently in uses Standard OSE XP rules so gold and monsters

>>The GM, or DM more properly, should be rolling that randomly and adjusting if anything is strongly anomalous, not just pulling out out of their ass.

You just said to adjust it man. The GM is always in control of XP

>>You haven't posted anything that seems like you actually play any osr games, just that one of them uses OSE ruleset

Lol, are you claiming OSE is somehow not an OSR game? It's the current king of OSR games.

>>98176232
Look, you're right but you're replying to bait. The guy's a troll, he's never going to take anything you say on board and will just keep repeating the spergiest low-effort dogshit posts possible. I admit that there's value in keeping this (and indeed any) OSR thread clear about what the OSR actually is and means, but responding directly to this speg and the shit that he says is meaningless. It's better to just report him IMO.

>>98175963
>I have ran
Learn to spell, subhuman

>>98175983
>cliam
lmao

>>98176232
I made no cliam. Someone else said every single OSR game has a set of agreed upon requirements. This is simply false.

I have been playing D&D long before OSR existed. I was around as the OSR movement was being put together.

>>Give this series of blogposts a read.

I don't care about one random dude and what he thinks are requirements

>>98176246
No, you don't seem to understand them. You literally changed my words into a different argument than I made and attacked that made up argument

>>98176285
>cliam

>>98176222
>thier are OSR games without it.
1. Wrong.
2. Learn to spell, faggot.

>>98176266
Okay, this is going to be hard for your brain because its obviously damaged so I'll use short points for your benefit.
>your ose game uses gp-for-xp
>this is osr
>adjusting for fringe results =/= entirely making up
>if you run ose without gp-for-xp it is no longer osr
None of this is complicated. You haven't been able to post any proof or explanation of your claims.

>>98176274
This is how I speak dumbass. You clearly don't talk to many English speakers with regional dialects

>>98176302
No it's still OSR. Are you claiming there is a set of agreed upon requirements that all OSR games must meet?

>>98176285
>you have to prove it!
>posts various proof
>I'm not reading that!
>I'm an oldfag but have no idea who gus is!
>>98176314
>everything i say is osr is osr!
Get killed. ACKSfags can have your thread.

>>98176268
>you're right
Wrong.

>you're replying to bait.
No, you're the one baiting.

>The guy's a troll
There's at least four different Anons here telling you that you're wrong and literally clinically retarded.

>>98176285
>cliam
Go back to school, ignorant.

>Someone else said every single OSR game has a set of agreed upon requirements.
Yeah, and he's obviously right.

>>98176293
>You literally changed my words into a different argument than I made and attacked that made up argument
False. You misused "ad hominem" multiple times, and you've kept using it despite Anon(s) proving to you that it was inductive reasoning and not an ad hominem each time, as well as explaining to you that insults and rudeness are not, by themselves, an ad hominem.

More fundamentally, since you spell English worse than a fifth grade child, you should stop talking about topics that are too complex for you to understand.

>>98176306
>This is how I speak dumbass.
You need a comma there, unless you meant to admit that you speak a language called dumbass, which on second thoughts is exactly what you actually do.

>regional dialect
It's not a regional dialect to be unable to spell and use punctuation correctly.

>>98176314
>it's still OSR
Wrong

>>98176321
>ACKSfags can have your thread.
Another BrOSR victory

>>98176344
Then list them and the website that hosts and maintains them.

>>98176361
Son, I pointed out the textbook definition. I can't help you won't even use Google to see what that is.

Hell you can enter the text in a number of fallacy detectors and it will list it

OP here, a number of posters seem to understand the post. It is not asking does this make it OSR, it's asking about the OSR experience.

These two things are distinct

>>98176407
>spoon feed me
No.

>>98176435
Sigh, autocorrect. Understand should be misunderstand

>>98176437
You are making a cliam. We both know it's false, which is why you can't back it up.

>>98176435
Inseparable.
You post like someone who has legit brain damage and/or medication problems.

>>98176414
>son
I'm not your son, since unlike you I belong to the human species.

>I pointed out the textbook definition
Yes, but it didn't apply the definition correctly, because you don't understand the difference between the unpleasant statement being the conclusion of inductive reasoning rather than the premise of an argument.

>Hell you can enter the text in a number of fallacy detectors
>t. uses LLMs but is too stupid and ignorant to check whether they're hallucinating or not.
Classic alpha gen / zoomer retard.

>>98176449
>cliam
Learn to spell, retard.

>We both know it's false
Wrong.

>you can't back it up
Wrong, it's already been backed up by other Anons in this very thread, but you're too stupid, ignorant, and illiterate to understand those arguments.

>>98176407
>link more things I'm not going to read
No. Fuck you fishfriend, your jig's up.

>>98176444
Don't worry, it's not important, you're retarded anyway and everybody is laughing at you, both BrOSR and 2efags. You should have lurked more rather than start posting last February, you've been making a fool of yourself since, like in the current OP, your continuous misspellings, your claim that Shadowdark is OSR, your misuse of fallacies, and so on. You're just too stupid for 4chan, you'd feel more at home on a website that's friendlier to people with special needs.

>>98176500
once more, you are making a cliam. Provide this list of requirements

Why is this debate happening here?

If the trolls that want to discuss some sort of closed definition of OSR, that should go to the non-Open OSR thread, right?

Like, this OP literally is about being open. If there's some trolls who want to debate about what they personally think should be some kind of strict standards that everyone must all agree upon, there has to be a better thread then one than this one.

ANYONE TRYING TO FORCE THAT DEBATE HERE IS A TROLL.
Do not engage with these trolls. If you really want to debate them on this, I'm certain there's a closed-off thread you can find them in.

>>98176537
>cliam
Go back to school

>Provide this list of requirements
Another Anon already has, and you refused to read them. You have exhausted what little goodwill you had when you admitted the true intent of your threads, and now you're making a fool of yourself by refusing to engage with the counterarguments and require more. You're just a sad little special needs troll, and you've managed to get everybody to hate you, even the 2e fans in this thread.

>>98176558
>>98176537
No fuck you. I came here in good faith and posted questions and links.
You refused to read them and are trolling back.
Reap what you sow.

>>98176537
Do not engage with the bad faith trolls in this thread. Go to some other thread, I'm sure you can find one.

>>98176558
>Noooooo you have to let me lie about the OSR unopposed or you're a troll!!
>Let me have my safe space free from proofs that I'm a lying faggot!!!!

>>98176575
>Do not engage with the bad faith trolls in this thread.
Hypocrite. You've been trolling and posting in bad faith for two years.

>>98175937
>Not a strict and autistic tribalistic mentality where you are only allowed to play one game and hate all others

HOW DARE YOU.

>>98176570
No, he provided a blog, not a resource all OSR games and communities have agreed is the standard.

It's clear you can not back your cliam. So I will mark you as a troll and ignore you.

>>98176571
First off those are two different people.
Secondly you have not done what was asked. You posted one guys blog and what he thought. Not an agreed upon list of requirements

>>98176632
IkR, actually playing games upsets them. I have always played many games. That was the default back in the 90s.

>>98176677
>>98176685
You don't seem to get it.
Do you even understand how rigorous the standards are for making a blog? It's not like just anyone could make a blog and fill it with whatever ideas come to their mind.
You not automatically respecting a blog and all the ideas contained within it is definitely a YOU problem, and you should also know that's it's actually illegal to not accept a blog as being verified truth that everyone in the world believes.

>>98176677
Nice try, but you don't get to set the standards of proof, faggot.

>>98176685
Go read it. Its a good series. You could even talk about it and sustain your bullshit thread on more than just trolling. There's a bunch of blogs that get into osr description and primers. Fuck, if you're really into being able to tie back to your old bullshit go check finch's primer. See what it says.
But you won't. You're hopeless.

>>98176738
Dude, It's not what was claimed or asked for. We both know OSR is not a strict set of rules and requirements. It's not owned by a single company, it is not the creation of a single community. There is no standard they have to pass to be granted OSR approval.

I can respect this guys opinion, even if I disagree. But he is not the controller of OSR. He is one guy, not in any position of power or control over OSR, who gave his personal opinion.

That is what some of y'all fail to understand. OSR isn't one thing, it's not unified and has no controlling board or origination that approves of OSR content.

File: DTcGDL97xPnHWGGTJZTGGQ4R3(...).jpg (148 KB, 1024x768)

148 KB JPG

>>98172577
>Do you think XP for gold is absolutely required for an OSR experience?
Utterly idiotic question. It's not even up for debate, of course XP for gold is absolutely necessary for OSR games.

>>98176690
ButterKEKs met Schoggi

>>98176778
Nore do you. That is what you keep failing to grasp, there is no list of requirements and standards. There is no board you must submit your product to for approvel

>>98176808
>We both know OSR is not a strict set of rules and requirements.
No, you just keep trying to speak for everyone while saying someone else can't. So if you're going to do the
>everything is a subjective opinion maaaan
shit then you have to deal with everything that comes with it.
Which is to say, you'll have nothing to talk about and flail around.

>>98176808
>He is one guy
There's like half a dozen of us calling you a retard just in this one thread, special needs hillbilly

>>98176789
I have read a number of blogs, just not really into to them any more. I have read a few Old school primers and fucking scores of different OSR games.

Again, I can respect this guys option
However his is not the authority or owner of OSR. He does not control what is and is not OSR.

Let's go back to the thread question
Why do you feel xp as gold is quintessential to the old school experience?

>>98176818
>Nore
>approvel
Woo-ee, y'all! Fixin' to hear it straight?

Boy, you better haul your tail-end right back to schoolin' and learn how to spell a lick of English, son!

And listen here: just 'cause there ain't a proper board nailed up don't mean 'OSR' just means whatever any ol' cousin-fuckin' jackasone says it means! Plebbit is right down that yonder path, you absolute varmint, now git on back there!

>>98176809
Okay, why do you feel it's a quintessential part of old school gaming?

>>98176852
>I'm over it and sooooo much better
We have no reason to respect your question when you've entirely failed to explain any of your games that don't have the requirement.
Get fucked.

>>98176822
Once more you are making a cliam. Back it up. You are not stating it as an option but a universal fact, yet you can't point to this universal set of requirements all OSR products and communities agreed to use.

>>98176852
>Howdy, you complete and total brain-hollowed turnip. Why in the absolute tarnation do ya reckon them little castle-towers and pony-critters are the absolute, true-blue backbone of a good ol' fashion Western Chess showdown?

Well doggone, you ain't nothin' but a pure-bred, low-slung, belly-crawlin' subhuman retard!

>>98176859
Fuck off cocksucker. I have talked about my games. You just keep moving the goalpost and trolling

>>98176858
No, you explain why its not with examples.
You're trying to push a contrary narrative, you have to prove it.
That's how you're bullshit consensus reality would function if you had any grasp of it.
All you're going to have is
>its osr because I say so

The osrg trolls can't talk about games, they can't back claims they make. They can only troll.

>>98176880
>cocksucker
*Spits into a brass spittoon*

You mean to tell me you press them foul-smellin' lip-flaps agin the sweet, saintly cheek of the dear woman what birthed ya?

>>98176884
I made no cliam. I rejected the cliam y'all made you still refuse to back up. You guys only troll, you can't even make soild arguments

>>98176887
Nice projection, fishfag.

>>98176871
>>98176880
You haven't talked about shit except
>ose that is running with gp for xp is osr
You have to prove multiple examples that don't do that but somehow still are.
Do that.

>>98176891
No, you done made a cliam, you sad, pathetic excuse for one of God's own creatures.

>>98176884
Okay let me try this again. I asked because I was interested in why for you it's a quintessential part of old school gaming.

To me it's not, I just do not see it as a key part of old school. Now I can see it if it fits the vibe I am going for in a game, but i just do not see it as a key part

>>98176907
What cliam? Link the post in which I made a claim not linked to rejecting another cliam

>>98176908
>To me it's not
Yeah, well, your two cents ain't worth a hill of beans anyways, on account of you bein' a plumb-loco, stark-ravin' mad boy-chaser.

>>98176891
You're claiming it isn't required.
You're refusing to read posted examples and explanations.
Suck start a shotgun.

>>98176920
>Link the post
Get your head out of the horse-pasture and learn how to trail a dadgum thread, you absolute, buck-toothed, jar-headed, cousin-marrying idjit!

>>98176903
I have talked about a lot of stuff, I just didn't elaborate on non OSR games. The current OSE game I am in , I am a player so do not control how XP is done.

The last OSR game I ran was over a year and a half ago and I just don't recall enough minior stuff like XP to explain how it was done. Plot, group, what they did I can recall, but that is not what you are asking.

I have to many games I wanna try and too little time to keep the same system game after game. No issue to people that do, but I have never been a one system person and utterly reject the idea d&d can run anything. I mean you can do it, but...it's not often done well.

>>98176925
That low-down, dirt-lickin', two-legged mistake of Almighty God actually reckons Shadowdark is a true-blue, old-school OSR game! He's cleaner out of his mind than a poisoned coon chasin' its own tail in a whiskey barrel!

Ain't got the sense God gave a gravel rock, talkin' that heap of pig-slop. That boy’s family tree is a straight line, and he’s out here barkin' up the wrong tree like a blind hound in a thunderstorm!

>>98176924
The whole OP question is about personal opinion. To me it's very Sword and sorcery in vibe, which works for some games and not got others

>>98176942
>The only example I have is xp for gold
>anyway you can totally do it without xp for gold!
>has no examples
You're so fucked in the head.

>>98176925
That is a rejection of a unproven claim. No one has yet linked this requirement list every OSR publisher and community has agreed upon.

>>98176942
>minior stuff like XP
Go stick your head in a hog wallow and choke on the mud, you absolute, cross-eyed, raving-mad idjit!

>>98176948
>The whole OP question is about personal opinion.
That is the most bass-ackwards, sky-is-falling, plumb-foolish heap of horse-manure I ever did hear tell of in all my born days! Well, congratulations, you absolute jar-head, you win the gold-plated hog-trough!

>>98176964
>no one has yet linked my impossible requirement
>no I haven't read anything or thought about other ideas
>why is everyone making fun of me?

>>98176948
>The whole OP question is about personal opinion.
Congratulations, you played yourself.

Can you STOP biting at this retarded troll's bait already?

Go to the /osrg/ if you want to argue about non-Open OSR.

>>98176989
They claimed those impossible requirements. I just asked them to back up the cliam.

I know you are the same three trolls spamming the thread. It's not "everyone" it's a few trolls who made a bullshit cliam and can't back it.

Y'all made a silly claim, I rejected it.

I have repeatedly tried to engage in actual conversation about your options. But you can't seemingly even explain your opinion

>>98175674
>>98174906
>>98174680
Ohnyo! The raiders found me! Whatever will I do?

>>98177013
>they claimed the thing I need them to have
You haven't tried to engage with shit. All you've done is deflect
>its not my game so I can't comment on how gp is xp but it surly must exist
>I'm old, I don't have to read anything or think my opinion is the best
>I rejected it
and have no grounds to do so, and can't provide any. You're fucking up.

>>98177013
>I have repeatedly tried to engage in actual conversation about your options.
If you want to do that, do that in the restricted thread.

>>98177012
Op here, it actually wasn't meant as bait. And my wording could have been better. Hell I should have known better but last night me was a little buzzed and didn't think it though. I just thought it was an interesting question.

>>98177036
Why? It's the thread question here.

>>98177038
Its not. How is
>prove my unprovable bullshit opinion
an interesting question?
Especially if you refuse to read material or engage with it?

>>98176329
>There's at least four different Anons here telling you that you're wrong
And none of them can spell the word "claim"? Just coincidentally?

>>98176891
>I made no cliam.
>>98172589
>To answer my own question, I do not think it's required
You fucking liar.

>>98177063
once more, I just rejected an impossible claim. We both know the made cliam is impossible. One guys opinion won't change that.

Me rejecting a cliam someone made that can't be backed up is not making a cliam. It's a rejection of an unproven claim


Once more, the issue is not "I think that you need x to have this experience" it was the bullshit cliam of "it's an agreed upon list of requirements". I am not going to accept such a wild cliam without the evidence to back it up

That one blogs options are fine as options, he is starting what he feels is a must. If you want to talk about why you feel it's a requirement, No issue I would enjoy that conversation. I simply do not think that way and have stayed why.

>>98177095
Once again, you have brain damage and can't understand the inversion of your own statement and its necessity.
Stop posting while you're drinking.
Stop backpedalling on blogs.
Start being able to prove your claim >>98172589

>>98177079
That is not a cliam, that was my opinion. I gave my view and did not proclaim it a universal truth all OSR games must agree too.

I asked other folks their opinions.

>>98177125
>to answer my own question
>not making a claim
You can't back it up and still refuse to read.
You have nothing. We can all see it.
I had been trying for weeks to engage in good faith with your open threads. I've been one of the only non trolling posters. I was even open to the idea it was possible but you are unable to privde any backing to your opinion" that's totally different than a claim. You're a pedantic fuckwit and have earned the hatred here.

>>98177115
That is an opinion son. Not a cliam, it's about my personal views. I even explained them in that post.

I do not find XP for gold as a must for Old school. Part of that could be exposure to other games before I found D&D, but how it's simply not a must have.

The concept to me, feels very grounded in a single genre of fantasy. And while I enjoy that genre not every OSR campaign is gonna be that single genre

>>98177115
>can't understand the inversion of your own statement and its necessity
Well, bless your heart, you’re tryin' to talk sense into a fella who couldn't tell a tractor from a turnip!

See, he don't know the difference between mud-slingin' to dodge a point (that’s your ad hominem, where you claim a man's fence-fixin' advice is no good just 'cause he’s a known liar) and reckonin' by trackin' (that’s your inductive reasonin', where you see dark clouds, smell rain, and figger it's time to bring the tools inside).

If you're fixin' to get through that thick skull of his, you gotta drop them high-falutin' college words. Use small words, talk real slow, and break it down like you're explainin' a broken hitch to a mule, or you'll just be whistlin' Dixie into the wind!

>>98177159
>I do not find
You couldn't find your own asshole with both hands.

>>98177159
Weird. Matt Finch also thinks that way.

Gold for XP isn't one of the things he considers vital to the OSR experience.
https://friendorfoe.com/d/Old%20School%20Primer.pdf

>>98177146
Dude, I did not make a fucking cliam. I answered the OP and gave my opinion. I also rejected the wild cliam no one had yet to back up.

I have explain at lest 4 times here why I have the opinion I do. It's an honest answer but I made no cliam as to what OSR is.

>>98177159
Listen here, hoss, your two cents ain't worth a plugged nickel on this because you don't know beans about what we're even talkin' about! And it’s plain as day for the whole county to see, 'cause every time you open your trap, you can't bring a single lick of proof to back up a word you're sayin'!

>>98177186
>I did not make a fucking cliam. I answered the OP and gave my opinion.
Listen here, you absolute turnip: spittin' out an opinion IS makin' a "cliam"! They're the exact same breed of dog, you durn fool!

>>98177181
Well, it's not in my opinion. OSR is a big thing and contrary to some folks claims here, there is not one big list of requirements. Every publisher has their own view on what it is, as does pretty much every GM and Player

>>98177186
>a fucking cliam
>wild cliam
>I have explain
>at lest
>I made no cliam
Learn to spell English or STFU

>>98177210
>Argumentum ad populum
Using "OSR" as a false marketing term has no relevance to the actual meaning of the word being appropriated.

>>98177181
Do you think a quick primer covers everything that is vital to an experience?
>>98177210
There we have it. Everything is OSR because you want it to be.
Good to know. Thanks champ.
How about that Marvel Superheroes, sure is osr isn'it?

>>98177235
>How about that Marvel Superheroes, sure is osr isn'it?
I mean, special needs hillbilly things fucking ShadowDark is OSR.

>>98172577
I didn't want this thread's particular OP as i thought it was the trolls potentially coopting/defanging it to try and turn it into a containment thread ala /todd/ but i'm pleasantly surprised. also reminder, report and ignore the trolls, report them enough times and hopefully they will actually eat a ban like they did before.

>>98177235
>>Everything is OSR because you want it to be.
Good to know. Thanks champ
No, OSR has a set, very lose definition. What I said isn't wrong, there are a lot of OSR games, all trying to capture what that publisher thinks is just the right version of OSR.

Hell look at how many BX or White box based games there are. Each different trying to match what they think OSR is.

And the Fasrip system was used for Conan too, it's a pre 2000 TSR game so yeah someone will argue it is OSR. Others will claim it's not. Personally I would count it as OSR adjacent. It's not really an OSR game,but it is a retro TSR game built on old school game play.

>>98177285
>everyone I disagree with is trolling
nou

>>98177294
>No, OSR has a set, very lose definition.
Post it.
Then post why you don't think gp for xp is essential.
Don't fall back on
>its just an opinion
You've claimed it has a set definition. Let's see it.

>Outright admits he's trying to bait so he can report other people and get them to catch a ban
You know I'm sure there's a word for that, starts with T, rhymes with asshole

>>98177235
>Do you think a quick primer covers everything that is vital to an experience?
It should hit the key notes.

But, you come from this weird school of thought where you accept games into the OSR that go directly against his first point, so I don't know why you're going for any other tactic other than your usual outright denial and direct opposition to Matt Finch's primer.

What kind of retarded argument is "a primer hoping to help new people understand what actually forms the core of the OSR experience wouldn't include the essential core of the OSR experience" anyway. I know you're just a bad faith troll, but at least that flat out denial and rejection of the primer shows some spine.

>https://pastebin.com/EVvt6P0B
have any of you thought about attacking their OSR bible?

>>98177319
Answer the question. Without making an attack.
Do you think a quick primer covers everything?

>>98177333
It should hit the key notes.

>>98177327
It's an incredibly biased, skewed piece of agitprop that pushes a narrow, personal, contested definition of what the author perceives the OSR to be and attempts to recruit others into said narrow vision. What else is there to say other than read something competent like Matt finch or the principa apocrypha?

>>98177342
Still dodging.
Try again with a yes or no and explain why.

>>98177309
I claimed OSR has a definition as it does have a lose one. OSR is a recreation of Pre-2000 gaming style. It can be though mechanics or theme. You will find both kinds of OSR games

>>Then post why you don't think gp for xp is essential

I have explained this like 5 times now, but it just isn't something I tie in to that experience. It's not a central pillar for me, I don't need it to feel like an old school game. It may be because I came into d&d after I had already played other game systems or because it feels like a set genre and not something that fits in every campaign.

I view it as a stylistic choice

>>98177354
how about actually arguing against the contents of it instead of strawmaning it?

>>98177354
>finche's primer
>not agitprop
lol have you read it? Its entirely based on presenting strawmen to knock down.

>>98177367
>how about actually arguing against the contents of it instead of strawmaning it?
That's what i did. It's a highly inaccurate narrow view that pushes the false pretense about what the OSR is about, attempts to present itself as an authority contrary to common consensus. "I'm the only right one, everyone else but me is wrong." Need i say more?

>>98177366
>OSR is a recreation of Pre-2000 gaming style
Vampire the Masquerade is OSR. Got it.
>It can be though mechanics or theme
PBTA Root is OSR. Got it.
Thanks for explaining your opinion. Its fucked and retarded but at least you admitted it.

>>98177380
>That's what i am. A highly inaccurate narrow view that pushes the false pretense about what the OSR is about, attempts to present itself as an authority contrary to common consensus. "I'm the only right one, everyone else but me is wrong." Need i say more?
You're going to regardless.

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>>98177354
>What else is there to say other than read something competent like Matt finch or the principa apocrypha?

My favorite advice is to go to Dragonsfoot and look at Gygax's actual posts and hear his actual thoughts, because after reading through them you really get a sense that the BrOSR are complete psychopaths who talk a ton about how much they are the only ones who truly understand what Gygax intended the game to be like while Gygax spent a good chunk of his time on Dragonsfoot trying to explain how much he hates players like them.

>>98177362
If it's not included in the primer, it's not vital.
Look up what "vital" means.

>>98177428
When you've dodged this hard this many times we all see how full of shit you are.
Look up what "quick" means.

>>98177423
>their appeals to authority are different than my appeals to authority
can't have it both ways, guy was a psycho himself and claimed a variety of conflicting things over time

>>98177440
Nah man, you're the one dodging by trying to say that something is vital to the OSR when a guy wrote a primer intended to explain the MOST BASIC COMPONENTS OF THE OSR didn't bother to include it in there.

Why are you like this? Why do you argue like a little bitch who assumes anyone has to listen to what you say, while you dodge what everyone else says?

>>98177475
>continues to obfuscate
>shifts to attacking the poster
Predictable.

>>98177457
Here's the fun part: dismantling an Appeal to Authority is not an Appeal to Authority, you dumb fuck.

I'm not saying Gygax is the ultimate authority. I'm saying that if you plan on using him as an ultimate authority, you should at least make sure he actually agreed with you and didn't write about how much he hated guys like you and how you were playing the game wrong.

No one cares about Gygaxian OSR anymore anyways. The old primers don't apply anymore. The OSR has moved on to the Macrisian era.

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>>98177381
>"SO YOU HATE PANCAKES?"

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>>98177423
>the BrOSR

>>98176558
>Why is this debate happening here?
Because this thread by its very nature invites it.

>If the trolls that want to discuss some sort of closed definition of OSR, that should go to the non-Open OSR thread, right?
No, on the contrary, this thread is the one that claims to have an open definition, so this is the one where a discussion of the limits of OSR is meaningful. The other thread, as you say, has a clear delineation already, so it doesn't need any debate: the matter is settled.

>anyone who disagrees with me is a troll nyoooooo
Sorry, but you don't get to demand a safe space echo chamber here, that's not how 4chan works. You have to put up with people disagreeing with you.

>>98177481
You're still trying to dodge the point where you want to say something is vital to the OSR but wasn't even mentioned in Finch's primer that tried to explain what was vital to the Old School style.

You haven't presented an argument yet, you've just laid out why you're a dumb faggot while you accuse others of dodging right in the middle of you dodging. What new levels of hypocrisy will you reveal today?

>>98177503
>Sorry, but you don't get to demand a safe space echo chamber here, that's not how 4chan works. You have to put up with people disagreeing with you.
Except the /osrg/ of course. 2e is clearly offtopic and disagreeing is just trolling.

>>98177475
>a guy wrote a primer
That's not the bulletproof argument you think it is.

>>98177494
Here's the fun part: creating impossible conditions doesn't make your position more hekin valid by trying to sidestep. All you're doing is an endless game of abstraction away from actual discussion. Which is ironic given how much you whinge about wanting discussion.
Everyone who thinks you're full of shit isn't part of some brosr conspiracy.

>>98176632
Trolling again. If you ask /osrg/ posters most of them will happily admit to playing other games as well. There just isn't a contradiction between understanding what OSR means on the one hand and enjoying non-OSR games on the other.

>>98177505
I'm sorry, Finch who? Whose that? Oh that's right, not Gygax, not Macris. thus their opinions on OSR don't matter.

>>98177503
Shut the fuck up. This thread is settled. It uses the open definition.

>Sorry, but you don't get to demand a safe space echo chamber here, that's not how 4chan works. You have to put up with people disagreeing with you.

Taking this right to the /osrg/ then.

>>98177505
>just keeps doing it
lmao even

>>98177503
I agree with the first 2 but 3rd is obviously hypocritical because posts arguing in favour of 2e being osr get deleted from the /osrg/

>>98176808
>OSR isn't one thing
Yes it is. You've adduced absolutely no evidence to the contrary.

>>98177513
>they will lie
Of course they will. That's all they ever do.

>>98177505
>wasn't even mentioned in Finch's primer
Finch's primer says outright bullshit like "rulings before rules". Finch is not an authority on anything.

So the main problem I'm having with setting up my Kingdom VTM hack is how to keep Coteries and Elysium an exploration life experience dynamic.

>>98177517
>This thread is settled
Correct: The thread is settled as wrong, and you're settled as a retarded tourist.

>>98177537
ACKS has a great system for solving this issue

>>98177524
>posts arguing in favour of 2e being osr get deleted from the /osrg/
That's because they are off-topic on /osrg/. You can discuss that delusion of yours here or on any other thread on /tg/.

I was considering having a series of index cards as locations for scenes and some of those would be both the
>dungeon
as a physical place but also as a more open metaphor for the prisoner dungeon dynamic inherent in Vampire.

>>98177511
> All you're doing is an endless game of abstraction away from actual discussion.
Go the fuck back to the /osrg/, you weird faggot.

If you want to just keep having "actual discussion" that entirely consists of
>"What's the rule for this?"
>"Look in the book, it's in the book"
>"Oh, thank you thank you."
>"You're very welcome. Very welcome indeed good sir."

For people who actually care about rules in a manner beyond blind obedience, that's where "actual discussion" exists, and is apparently something you can't handle because it actually requires being able to discuss something with someone who has different opinions than the ones you hold.

You're a braindead shitposter who needs an echo chamber to discuss games, and when you realize how boring that dead form of "discussion" is, you instead rush off to the other OSR thread because that's where actual people are have actual discussions about actual games.

The only way to prove this wrong would be to fuck off back to the /osrg/ and actually stay there, but we all know you won't do that.

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>>98177559
>Go the fuck back to the /osrg/, you weird faggot.
Let us know how your janny application goes, fishfag.

>For people who actually care about rules in a manner beyond blind obedience
Like in your character sheets? LMAO

>>98177559
You don't know shit about Gygax

The Power would draw the first or several locations. The Perspective would get to add a detail to the dungeon and the Touchstone would get to veto either the location or the detail, but not both.
I think this adds to the exploration side of things, more from an abstract but thematically tied in lens.

>>98177559
>You want discussion to be about how the game works!
>This is totally wrong and I hate it!
lmao

But another question I have about it and how to tie in character classes as clans as Kingdom roles would be a series of light alterations to the procedure based on the clan of the player.

Do you think this would make it more osr? I think number of uses per scene is similar enough to vancian casting it works.

>>98177587
>the only "discussion" we can fake is acting like a "let me google that for your" service

No wonder you get bored there.

>>98177579
Kingdom is not an OSR game.

>>98177542
ACKS is a lot more granular than what Kingdom is doing, even An Echo Resounding is more focused on literal dungeons and domains. The VtM OSR angle I'm going for with the Kingdom hack is a strong vibes and metaphorical dungeon exploration of the self, both a Hegelian negation of the monster and dungeon.

>>98177614
Its very focused on domain play, more about how the people (or monsters in this case) make decisions with consequence in a living world, so I'm using it to work with VtM, also osr in this thread, to hack together a 3 player oWoD campaign.

>>98177635
vtm and kingdom are not OSR. trying to shoehorn them into OSR will not work. Just use Macris' rules

>>98177635
Ignore the ACKShill. There'a reason he got banned from Reddit.

>>98177677
Seems pretty osr here.
Its from before 2000 and adding VtM gives it dungeons and monsters, as well as faction conflict. Its more osr than ACKS really, being older.
There might be interesting edge cases for the post 2000 oWoD books.
I've been considering which of those are required reading.

>more osr than ACKS

So basically you don't actually understand what OSR is

>>98177700
It is for the purposes of this thread! OP set out the definitions.

How would you tie in VtM clans to ACKS character generation?

No-no, you don't understand, the holiest of holiest, the fishiest of fishies, has given us his ordained wisdom and proclaimed that as far as this thread goes, OSR is anything pre-2000.
So OSR includes Shadowrun, VtM, RuneQuest, Furry Pirates, Nobilis, BESM, ect, ect.
This is his definition and clearly the thread should follow through on his wishes as its benevolent Tyrant and talk about all of them.

So what're you godless motherfuckers opinions on Amber Diceless Roleplaying and its influence on the OSR. I've heard it's hella OSR as fuck, being published a good 9 years before the cut off set by Dagon himself (PBUH)

>>98177695
Everything is more OSR than ACKS.

ACKS is a shit game that goes directly against what the OSR is about. It's built on B/X, but is such a disgusting departure because all it does is keep tacking on the dumbest rules that might as well be generated by ChatGPT by how robotic and under-playtested they are. They're like a first draft shitted out by a machine just to take up space: rules just for the sake of rules existing.

It's like B/X was a boat, and the ACKS guy just started shitting in it. Just nonstop, explosive diarrhea. Just shitting in that boat like it was his personal toilet, and filled it with so much shit that not only was it too slow to go anywhere in a reasonable amount of time, it eventually just capsized from being too overladen with shit. It's basically a dead game at this point, with something like less than a thousand players left in the world.

And now we've got some of those faggots pointing at the sunken shit-filled ship and trying to tell everyone it's not just a great boat, but the greatest boat, despite it not even being able to float.

Also, to the mod he inevitably reports my post to; it's not trolling, it's satire.

>>98177762
You don't know shit about Gygax

>>98177762
This seems more like a personal beef and system flame wars, which isn't what Open OSR is about.
You do seem to know a lot about OSR though and I'd appreciate your comments on my Kingdom VtM Hack. There are several questions already.
Can you draw on your OSR experiences to help with which VtM books after 2000 I can still use and have it be OSR?

>>98177786
>Can you draw on your OSR experiences to help with which VtM books after 2000 I can still use and have it be OSR?

We already told you, just read ACKS

>>98177754
Amber has a really strong cosmic vibe but I haven't gotten into the rules, just my own Appendix N readings. If its diceless is it more of a procedural base? There's a strong emphasis on procedural in some OSR.

>>98177720
>It is for the purposes of this thread!
Wrong. If you make a thread claiming that there's no rooks in chess, all you'll get is laughed at.

Traveller is definitely my personal favorite OSR game

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>>98177786
>You do seem to know a lot about OSR
You can't be that much of a retard or a newfag to believe fishfag knows much about anything.

>>98177786
>This seems more like a personal beef and system flame wars, which isn't what Open OSR is about.

It's the core of what OSR is though. What made the OSR popular was finding out what was good about the Old School style and promoting it. The whole reason there's even any conflict over the OSR name is because people saw the value in the Old School and designed games with those values in mind. Simple things not over-complicating the game like 3rd edition ended up doing, with simple ideals like "Rulings over Rules" that

ACKS is more scam than game, and awkward and bloated shit system that tries to teach DMs how to be bad DMs, with overcomplicated and time-wasting procedures that add no real value to the game and are examples of the worst way to construct a ruleset. You will literally become a worse person if you play ACKS.

>>98177821
Monopoly is definitely my personal favourite OSR game.

>>98177796
I saw that but you haven't been any help with converting VtM clans over to ACKS. You seem like an ACKSpert (teehee) so if you could outline which classes and modifications you think would be best for how to make a Nosferatu into the Thief I'd appreciate it. It has the most direct crossover but maybe ACKS has a series of tables or spreadsheets for how many boils or lesions per square inch the vampire has. I considered using the hero points from

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>>98177830

>>98177842
Exactly. ACKS is shit and the people who play it are worse, particularly beacuse they're so fucking boring, probably thanks to ACKS molding them into permavirgins who masturbate to spreadsheets.

>>98177830
It doesn't seem like you can help with any of the game questions I have about OSR and how to make the Kingdom VtM OSR hack, you're just caught up in the definition wars.
What OSR game are you working on anon?

>>98177754
you're using a slippery slop fallacy. just because some of us believe 2e is on topic for the /osrg/ doesn't mean we want all those other systems included.

>>98177813
I think making ACKS class equivalents to VtM clans is pretty OSR. How would it not be?

>>98177861
Well tough, because the rest of us don't want 2e in and any bullshit you come up with to justify why it is OSR relevant can be applied exactly the same to any other system.
Now open your mouth for a big ol' spoonful of GURPS, everyone's favourite OSR game.

In other news
>He's so ass-mad about people heckling him that he's reverted to screaming about how ACKS is bloated, bad and so on
We've now confirmed that whining about ACKS is his equivalent of disassociating due to trauma.
Very interesting

>>98177879
ACKS is absolutely OSR, one of the finest, in fact.

I was referring to the OP getting to define what OSR means.

>>98177885
>ACKShill thinks anyone doesn't recognize he's the troll

What a weird stance you keep trying to take, even in the middle of you trolling.

>>98177839
>I considered using the hero points from
Excuse me, they're Fate Points, and they're from Barbarian Conquerors of Kanahu, the ACKS book. They looked like a workable equivalent to humanity, blood and frenzy for VtM.

>>98177901
Nah, it's a bloated mess for dickless faggots who wanted to shill so much on Reddit that they got banned.

What kind of faggot do you need to be to want to be on Reddit to begin with, but how much more of a faggot do you need to be for them to go "No, you're too gay even for us."

>>98177885
you've still failed to argue anything about 2e that prevents OSR play. it has xp for gold, exploration rules, and even wargaming rules. I don't know why your bible includes that last one but 2e has the battle system like 1e does.

>T-trollin-
Trolling is intentionally provoking someone with offensive or inflammatory messages to get an emotional response from them or upset them.
Satire meanwhile is using irony, sarcasm or wit to take your own words and parody you.
I know you're a lackwit so you don't recognize the last one, but surely someone taught you about the first two at some point in your life?
Probably with a see spot run book on the subject?

>>98177885
>We've now confirmed that whining about ACKS is his equivalent of disassociating due to trauma.
Today he's also supremely assmangled that his anti-ACKS thread >>98155608, that he thought would get the whole of /osrg/ grabbing their pitchforks against Macris, floundered as most posters pointed and laughed at him instead for caring about AI art, while his obsessively attempts to talk shit about ACKS got zero traction.

Not a good week for fishfag.

>>98177901
Looks like the thread for broader OSR adjacent games. It would be rude to go into /osrg/ and talk about Kingdom or Traveller but doesn't seem to be a problem here.
Can you help with VtM clans and ACKS classes? It likely has rules for becoming infected with vampirism, what section are those in?

>>98177917
>b-but ACKS got banned on plebbit
Enough! We've already told you we like ACKS, no need to insist.

>>98177922
No, people have made the arguments, you just didn't like the arguments or consider them legitimate.
Because you desperately want 2e to be OSR for some baffling reason and refuse to let a thing be defined by its cultural norms because you, presumably, don't believe in such things.
There's a difference.

>>98177924
lol, you're such a little kid.

Most of that thread was people agreeing that you're a shitstain, and how obvious it was that you were the one trying to make pro-AI art arguments because they were nothing but "NO THE PEOPLE WHO COMPLAIN ABOUT AI ARE ANNOYING. RIGHT?!" shitposts.

Most of the posts in that thread were agreeing that Macris was a scumbag. 300+ post thread confirming Macris and his game is a piece of shit, and you think you can try and re-describe what occurred in that thread just like you try to lie about everything.

>>98177527
Look at the very wide range of OSR. It's never been one thing, it has neo clones and retro clones and games that push the limits of what OSR can be.

This will trigger some but Shadowdark is OSR, it's just on the other end of OSRIC. This is not a debate, it's listed as OSR. I don't give a fuck if someone disagrees with reality.

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>>98177935
>It likely has rules for becoming infected with vampirism, what section are those in?
It does! 1/2

>>98172577
I'll contribute an osr feeling alternate to gold for xp. That's souls or xp for gold. Not a new idea but it does switch up a few mechanical things.

Souls are currency.

Gets you atrocity generators for business (flavor and hooks).
Money is longevity (maybe).
Sorcerers and undead steal your money rather than sneaky beggars
Encumbrance is less of an issue for carrying your store of value (unless we go soul gems)
Hell probably contains effectively all the money

There's probably more. But it doesn't harm the osr incentive loop much without being totally cosmetic.

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>>98177935
>>98177960
2/2

>>98177945
>No, people have made the arguments
and they failed try making new ones or accepting that 2e is osr even by your definition. just because gygax didn't like it and was kicked out of tsr before it came out doesn't change that.

>>98177922
>it has xp for gold, exploration rules, and even wargaming rules
We don't need those here. This is the Open OSR thread. OSR adjacent is fine too, its a good idea for discussing less orthodox conversion and gameplay.

>>98177961
>souls or xp for gold
lmao levels of faggotry are reaching volcano eruption levels

>>98177975
I know. I'm just arguing that 2e fits the /osrg/ definition of osr.

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>>98177946
>Everybody who doesn't care about AI art is one single person on Macris's payroll
You need urgent psychiatric help, fishfag.

>>98177946
He's trying to do some sort of damage control Let's see how it works out, largely because if that thread hit bump limit+, it generated enough discussion to warrant more threads about it. Might be too soon for an immediate sequel, but if the ACKShlll is really so keen on seeing how people feel about stuff like selling books with AI art without saying it's AI, there's no reason not to keep the conversation going. Especially if it means he's got to juggle even more threads that he needs to be constantly performing damage control on, since it seems like even he's got a hard limit of how much he can samefag/spam/etc.

Report the off topic trolls and ignore them

>>98177971
>2e is osr
Wrong

>>98177968
>That objectively awful AI slop
lol
How the fuck does that get okayed.

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>>98177994
>Everybody who doesn't care about AI art is one single person on Macris's payroll

>>98177960
>>98177968
Huh, neat. I'd sort of expected separate rules for different types of monsters.
It doesn't seem to do much to how XP and levelling operate but it might be tied into the special abilities and * notation.

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>>98177944
>Enough! We've already told you we like ACKS, no need to insist.

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>>98177945
>Because you desperately want 2e to be OSR
According to Matt Finch it is.
Argue with him, not us.

>>98177993
>>98178001
>whipping out his "I lose" images

lol, the ACKShill is getting DESPERATE and declaring he lost in the process.

>>98177995
What are you on about? There's been no off-topic comments as far as I can see, and disagreeing with you is not trolling.

>>98177991
I think you're doing significantly more harm than good with the argument and flame wars instead of talking about actual gameplay.

It is too bad the ACKS side of your spat doesn't have much gameplay discussion to add either though.

>>98178007
>Quite literally refuses to read thhe second part of the sentence because it scuppers his argument
"They're old school editions but already had diverged from things on a foundational level to instead go after the money"
Boy that sure isn't the epic win you thought it was.
Also, why would I give a single tug of my cock over what someone named after a bird thinks?
Sam Eagle can't tell me his opinion on OSR either for the record.

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>>98178011
>Fishfag is so assmangled and desperate about stock images that he tries to make them go away be calling them "I lose images".

>>98178023
Do not twist words. Post what he actually says instead of re-interpreting things just to try and lie to everyone.

>>98178025
>posts another
What a retarded loser you are,
Your "I lose" images are a great way to track just how often you lose an argument and go right into the most blatant "All I can do now is try to troll as hard as I can" mode, even more blatant than your ordinary "I'm a retarded troll" posting style.

BrOSR 0, Cool Guys 3.

>>98178029
>When these were published, they were already beginning to be affected by business-driven decisions that created some divergence from the very earliest of the editions
He's quite literally stating what /osrg/ says, that AD&D 1e & 2e diverge from each other in terms of foundational concepts.
How the fuck do you think this is some kind of win for you.
Are you actually honest to god small propeller hat wearing retarded?

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>>98177961
Was this in Perdition? Its been ages since I looked at it but it seems familiar.
One of the difficulties with soul stealing from an old school demon tricking the mortals into sin side is how rp heavy it would be, but scaling it for domain level demon power politics could be fun.

>>98178042
Post the FULL statement.

He's not a fucking retard like you. He understands that 2e AND BECMI were beginning to be affected by the changes that would eventually crystallize into 3e, but he's not arguing that either 2e or BECMI are not old school like you are.

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>>98178040
>I'm multiple guys
You're not multiple guys, fishfag. In fact, you're not even one guy, you're a subhuman.

Also, we've already established last thread that the score was
>>98167803
>BrOSR 98 - 0 fishfag
But after 71 posts of BrOSR victories in this thread, the updated score is
>BrOSR 169 - 0 fishfag
Another
BrOSR
Victory

>>98177961
I don't see a need for an alt, just use XP as rewards. But if you wanna do something like that, it sets a vibe

>>98178051
Doesn't matter what Finch thinks, he's a running joke in the OSR. In fact, heuristically, him claiming something is reason for suspicion.

>>98178014
You know there has been trolling go back to the osrg, as you think vtm is OSR talk about it there.

>>98178056
Counting how many imaginary Gygax nuts you've sucked isn't impressive.

But, getting a retarded troll to start spamming his "I don't care how obvious it is that I'm alone, I'm going to keep re-using the same images whenever I lose an argument" images is watching a guy self-own himself even when he knows that everyone can see right past his bullshit.

Give us some more "I lose" images already.

>>98178069
>you think vtm is OSR
You're the one who said that that VtM and GURPS are OSR because they're pre-2000, we're just playing along with your retardery. Too late for you to take it back.

>>98178066
Go and email him and argue with him then.
>running joke in the OSR
C'mon now. I know you're just trying to argue past him saying with no way to interpret it otherwise that 2e is OSR, but the guy who made OSRIC and helped make LL and made Swords and Wizardry is kind of a big deal in the OSR sphere.

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>>98178072
>One assmangled comment for each stock image posted.
Not a bad ROI. Not as good as saying "ACKS", that nets us 3-4 assmangled replies on average, but I'll take it.

>>98178079
I factually did not. You are trolling And you know it. But go post those game in the osrg. Go ahead if your not trolling they belong there

>>98178086
NTA, but that is where these types always end up. They start attacking people, including Gygax himself, because their ideology is so small and limited.

>>98178093
>starts posting his gay fantasies

I don't know if that counts so much as an "I lose" image so much as it is another whole level of you being objectively a weird faggot and self-owning yourself in a way that if there were other /osrg/ trolls they'd be begging you to stop making yourself look so bad.

Watching him claim that something can't have boundaries because defining something by its limits is bad because it makes it small is fascinating.
Imagine taking this line of argument with literally anything else
>Football cultists are shitters because they keep telling me that it's not football if I play it on a small table and pot the balls into the goal
>Fucking H2OSR chuds telling me that piss isn't the same as water.