I'm putting together a campaign centered around hunting/fighting/saving kaiju.I'm trying to come up with mechanics I could bolt onto my system to make that playable and fun. The vibe I'm aiming for is somewhere between John Scalzi's The Kaiju Preservation Society (for the setting) and Shadow of the Colossus (for the combat), but I'm open to other suggestions.So what do you guys think? Any ideas for making fights against massive, kaiju-sized bosses actually playable and fun at the table?
>>98188473>Any ideas for making fights against massive, kaiju-sized bosses actually playable and fun at the table?Well, depends on your definition of playable and fun.I would either go on 2 directions, depending on the people at my table:1.- FATE or adjacent ruleset, it is good at simulating fiction (in a ludonarrative way) while still keeping a semblance of crunch, there's even Kaiju-themed FATE sourcebooks like "Mecha Vs Kaiju" and "Kaiju Incorporated".2.- I would use something in the bracket of OpenD6 or Mini Six, it is sleek, it is great at managing scales, the rules are simple but not dumbed down. You can scale the gameplay easily with adding dice to the pool, and if you don't like huge dice pools there's even a "limited dice" optional rule. So let's say, you can come up with combat scenarios of a Huge Heavy Mecha/Giant Robot (+6D scale) VS an even bigger Kaiju (+12D), the math isn't heavy, and if you don't want to rule tons of dice you just keep them low at 5 and then just add the pips from the extra dice (check the optional rule for this). Mini-Six has great examples for characters and vehicles templates.
>>98188473By the way, I'm not just begging. Here's a first little mechanic I came up with:>Momentum Initiative>The giant monster's initiative uses cards.>Take a number of cards equal to twice the number of players.>Among those cards, put two kings.>Every time one of the players acts, draw a card.>Once the second king has been drawn, the monster acts.>On its turn, it can unleash absolutely devastating attacks, or easily shake off players who are in the middle of climbing it. But players can avoid those attacks entirely if they used their own turns to put themselves in safe positions.>So the whole thing creates a dynamic where players have to weigh the benefits of acting now against the rising chance that the monster is about to send a world of hurt their way. You don't really get that same pressure from rolling dice.
>>98188563The number of cards being tied to the number of players seems like it could use a bump in the amount of face cards or something similar for the really big boss monster. Like the final monster has the ace of clubs in there too. Or you could have the actions tied to different face cards>jack means attack x>queen is y >king is zHow does the monster refill its hand?
There's a dnd 5e Kickstarter for this already.
"Fun" for who?
>>98188473>actually playable and fun at the table?I think some of the difficulty here will be scale and risk. Shadow works because its a video game and you can start over when you fall, get crushed, etc. but its harder for most ttrpgs unless you have some sort of expendable mook system, after about half a dozen asspulls for how the different character's hero points mean they don't die it removes a lot of the tension which I think is key to your idea. If you're using the cards idea it might work to add some sort of tangible city that's being destroyed as part of the card layout, or even a grid map lain over a google map of a city so you can scribble over it with red pen as the trail of carnage.
> > 98188749> How does the monster refill its hand?Hmm... good question. I was thinking “after the second king is drawn,” but yeah, in that case it means the monster acts slightly more often than half as many times as the players.My initial idea was to use a full deck of cards instead, and have the monster act either after a specific rank has been drawn twice, or after a specific suit has been drawn three times.But the problem there is that, in fiction, it would mean the monster acts more or less quickly depending on the number of players. That doesn’t make much sense.> it could use a bump in the amount of face cards for the really big boss monster.You mean the bigger monster could also act when other face cards are drawn? And potentially take different kinds of actions depending on which face card it was?The second option could be a great way to turn this into a solo-game mechanic, but I’m not too sure I follow the reasoning for the first idea. Are you suggesting that larger monsters should act more often? That seems strange to me, since the whole idea was to make giant monsters feel like they have a greater sense of inertia.>>98188780>I think some of the difficulty here will be... riskGood point. I think that could be solved by giving players very clear lifelines.For example: the player was climbing the monster, but wasn’t properly secured when it became active and started shaking. Instead of falling to his death, he could end up dangling from his safety rope. He can climb back up, but he’ll be significantly lower than before. And if he doesn’t secure himself before the monster acts again, *then* it’s near-certain death.Combat could work the same way, with an intermediate “you got caught with your pants down, now you’d better fuck off before it acts again or they’ll need DNA tests to identify your body” state. Like “the monster spotted you and is now taking a deep breath,” or something.
>>98188473spammer retard
>>98188549>Kaiju IncorporatedChecking this one. It's $10, but it looks like it's the right kind of vibe and scale.Thank you for the suggestions. My game is a homebrew, but it's a D6 pool so maybe I can borrow from both.>>98188761>There's a dnd 5e KickstarterHaven't heard of this one, but these are shovelware usually. What's the name? I will take a look.
>>98189024That's not me. And cleaning up monster poop is most definitely *not* what I'm looking for.>06/10/26Are you from the future, anon?
>>98189059>>98189024FUCK ok I just found it >>98188210Well I guess some ideas are in the air.
>>98188473From when I did a similar concept:>Kaiju are vertical dungeons with exterior "rooms" joined by climb/jump checks. Failure to make the checks deals damage, doesn't prevent movement (usually)>Kaiju shakes and self-bashes are slow and telegraphed, and do not roll dice. You dodge/brace or take 100 damage, the kaiju doesn't "miss" or roll low/high. >Kaiju are covered in defences, either like static turrets or monsters living in its pelt. Fight these in rooms. Some may be weak spots and elimination of these is required to kill the beast.
>>98188989>But the problem there is that, in fiction, it would mean the monster acts more or less quickly depending on the number of players. That doesn’t make much sense.I was considering that too. There are games where that works like 3:16 Carnage where the amount of alien threats is proportional to the number of players. If you're Wanting the kaiju to be a more distinct mechanical entity with stats that are operating more traditionally it ends up being more like adjusting challenge rating to the party size or something similar. There might be something in Dread and the jenga tower or a similar style dexterity game for the players navigating the monster. It doesn't feel quite right, jenga and dread being a slow burner sort of tension. >You mean the bigger monster could also act when other face cards are drawn? And potentially take different kinds of actions depending on which face card it was?Yes. I mean bigger as a threat level, so there are more threatening things about it, or challenges. So its the monster as environment more than direct fight. It wasn't clear if the cards are a count down timer until the monster destroy a city or 'wins' or if its just actions in an i-go-u-go combat sequence. But if you want the monster to feel big and in a way unconcerned with player characters, things like giant ticks, it smashing through a building and the building glass flying at the characters, etc. could also be things that happen on card draws. >life lines Yeah, this is going to be tricky. Basically setting up whatever dice mechanics you have to be challenging and feel threatening but also how much failure they can sustain before they lose. You can only have >lose your footing and tumble but catch yourself just in time once or twice before its the same shit over and over again, which works in /v/ but less so for ttprgs unless you want it to be more like a board game. huh, snakes and ladders.
>>98189172>do not roll dice. You dodge/brace or take 100 damage, the kaiju doesn't "miss" or roll low/highCould you expand on this a little bit?Do you mean "the kaiju doesn't roll dice"(implying the player just roll to dodge)?Or do you mean "no dice is rolled at all"(implying the dodge is automatically succeeded if declared and failed if not? Then in which circumstances wouldn't the character be able to dodge?>>98189519>snakes and laddersI mean... "it's snakes an ladders, but you are climbing a kaiju and snakes can pop up unexpectedly if you progress too fast without taking precautions" sounds like a pretty solid concept right there. "Works like a boardgame/wargame, but you can take shortcuts if you justify it narratively" is not a bad approach for ttrpg mechanics. It's the approach I like, at least
>>98191439The first one. The player should roll, and succeed or fail. The kaiju shouldn't ever fail (or succeed), it simply acts like a force of nature.
>>98188473I don't get it, what's preventing them from being playable?
>>98188563What are you talking about? Of course you can. Roll 6d each turn. When you accumulate 12 successes, the monster acts. Ez.
>>98188780The consequences for failure are more interesting and sever than player character death, obviously.
>>98192013That can be the city being destroyed or Humanity or something similar but unless you take a significant amount of time to do an rp heavy world building chunk to get player investment in that game world it has to be buying into the tropes fast, so convention style story game playbooks, or accepting the gamier side of things and not wanting to lose. Some sort of grid overlay of a city and points based on how much of it is left when the monster is defeated could be an interesting measure. What more interesting consequences do you mean and how would you implement them?
>>98191439I think the snakes and ladders design could be fun. Makes it more like a board game or a point crawl but you could have the sections of the kaiju mapped out and placed over the image of the creature, a few different paths and card draw associated with the paths. Lets the players split up and take different approaches to plan a bit strategically about how the GM can allocate monster resources like the activated-card can only target one section or something similar. Ties in the physicality of the beast as terrain.
>>98192647No, not at all. The consequences have game mechanics, just like anything else.
>>98188473Huh a half decent thread on /tg/ - traditional games. Rare sight these days.
>>98193314christ your standards are in the shitter
>>98193292So no interesting consequences then.
>>98193449Plenty, you mean.
>>98193592Shame you can't elaborate or add them.
>>98192013>The consequences for failure are more interesting and sever than player character death>>98188780>city that's being destroyedActual great point in both cases: one of the advantages of combat against kaiju is that the combat can be less about "fighting for your life" and more "fighting to stop destruction on a massive scale".>>98192006>Roll d6 each turn. When you accumulate 12 successes, the monster actsThen you have less possibilities of being surprised.But, yeah, fair enough, that's an alternative approach which could work and with a few upsides. I don't like shuffling, personally, so instead only restarting the count of success would be a plus.
>>98192727Yeah! I really like where this is going.Although instead of actually mapping out the kaiju, borderline I could create a variation of my "instant dungeon" system (pic related).I mean, it would make perfect sense to only figure out if a path is climbable when you get there. Plus you could send the more agile character ahead to map the path and so on.Which kind of path cards do you have in mind? Stuff like "easy to cross, but not safe to cling" "safe to cling, but no path upward" "difficult to cross", that kind of stuff?
>>98193875Oh neat. Getting more into the weeds here. So its a space for the character map, a city map with a red sharpie to track time and a deck of event cards. The size of the kaiju would change the number of instant dungeon exploration tiles. Some of the tiles could have encounters or traps or puzzles on them, some would be more about monster description or terrain, similar enough to raondom dungeon keying adjusted to how much conflict you want to have as they explore. Different kaiju would have different special tiles that get shuffled in. While the players are trying to get to the top of the kaiju there's a deck of playing cards that is like events, this is the kaiju as it marauds through the city smashing things. I think some of this would be kaiju specific for flavour, like one that's very electrically conductive gets to a transformer station and electrifies a lot of its body, so the tiles cause damage or equipment malfunction. I'd model the path cards and kiju events off of pbta location moves and threat countdowns but that's just where my brain goes. Things like you describe but with a bit more context to that specific monster. Most of the big rubber suit monsters had different gimmicks. How the gimicks work is getting close enough to mechanics its harder to explain without knowing those, but for example >easy to cross but not safe to cling >Scorched limb >The kaiju has used its forearm to block the futile missile strikes of a helicopter attack. >The burnt section has almost nothing to grab onto but its easy to scramble across quickly and it could effect movement speed, letting the characters cross it for less time so less city gets destroyed but if a turbulence sort of card is drawn from the event deck they get some negative to not fall off or back.
>>98193740You have as many possibilities as you want.
>>98193328So is this board.
>>98188473Monsters and other childish things has a supplement called Bigger Bads that has rules and advice for fighting kaiju sized monsters, may or may not be helpful to you.
>>98194812
>>98195314Wasn't vague. What are you confused about?
>>98194005Yeah! There’s a lot to work with there.I propose a hybrid solution of sorts:>You get a general map that’s just a picture of the kaiju, with “areas” marked on it: legs, body, arms, head, etc. (pic related)>Dungeon tiles are laid over it, picked at random as the characters progress.>These tiles have purely mechanical stats for climbing conditions, with two or three axes. For example: how easy it is to climb, how easy it is to cling to, and maybe how quickly it can be crossed, or whether it’s solid enough to plant a safety rope there.>On top of that, each tile could have a “kaiju special effect” variable: a number referring to a table that’s unique to each kaiju. So, for example, for a kaiju with a lot of parasites, Cloverfield-style, most entries on the table would be parasite combat encounters. But for an electric kaiju, as you mentioned, they could be electric trap-like dangers.>This way, we can keep the same tiles from kaiju to kaiju. They could even be used for climbing ruined buildings or cliffs.>The initiative deck could be used to add environmental events on top of that. This is where the kaiju areas come in: “the arm is hit by a missile, so it’s targeted by an explosion danger effect”; “the monster crosses a high-tension line, so the legs are targeted by an electric danger effect.”I can start working with that.
>>98195314Well?
>>98196556The initiative system >>98188563 >>98188989is the next tricky part.How is it supposed to work, actually?The monster activation part is straightforward enough. To reduce edge cases (like two king cards picked in a row), we can divide the pile of cards in two, each with as many cards as there are players and each including a king, then you start picking from one pile only after you finished the previous one.Hmm... not sure how much that's an improvement, actually.By they way, player activation could be tied to the same system.But the big question is: What constitutes "being caught with your pants down"?Let's say the PCs are climbing and the monster telegraph that his next move will be to try to shake them down on his activation. Do they fail to do so if>They didn't declare a "hold on" action yet this turnIn which case, when do they get the choice to do something else?>They didn't declare a "hold on action" X number of activations before the monster got activatedHard to keep track of, difficult to justify in fiction>After the monster activate, the next X characters to activate get to declare a hold action. Any character who are not activated then and who did not declare a hold action ahead of the monster activation either run the risk of being shaken downThis one is easier to track and make sense...ish>On the first pick of the card, the monster telegraphs the action which it will do on its activation.Then if you are not among the PCs who activate between the first and the second pick of the monster card, and you happen to be in the area of effect, you are completely screwed.Are there other possibilities?
>>98196556Sleepy, monster bump for tomorrow reading.
>>98193740First method : plyers don't know when a certain card will appear.Second method : Players don't know how many dice will be rolled. Players don't know how many successes are required. Players don't know if either or both variables change each round.Sure seems like the second method has more chances for surprise.
>>98199663The whole advantage of cards is that the rules are out in the open, but you still get a nice balance of randomness and certainty. It’s like Russian roulette.You know your odds, and you know they get worse with each draw.So you can decide how much risk you want to take.But a GM playing Calvinball with the dice just means you’re sitting around waiting for the monster to surprise buttsex one of the PCs.
>>98196556I think having the numbers on the terrain/climb tiles that correspond to a table is a great way to have that be included in an easy manner but simple to implement. Not sure how long you're aiming the climbing to be. Adjusting the number of tiles required to get to the head or other objective point for that and making sure there are sufficient entries on the kaiju specific effect table should work. Is the head basically the objective area? Like the characters have to carry a bomb to the head or something could be fun. Like only one character can hold the bomb so the players have to pick it up. Might make it too fiddly or vulnerable to instant loss if that player falls off.
>>98197829>initiative I think you have to live with edge cases if you're doing rng/crad draw. You can look at the distribution and frequency to get the likelihood down to acceptable. If the deck gets shuffled after 2 attacks or so that works. So the kings are monster attacks, the other face cards telegraph what that attack is. The players can look at the number of cards and decide if they're going to 'hold' or go for it. Holding is either a bonus to or automatically holding on, going for it lets them get closer to the objective but risks falling. This needs a time pressure so this is a hard choice. Track holding with a token or bead next to the character representation or on their character sheet. Its a lot more like a board game now, which doesn't bother me, and having a n index card or so of character stuff would work fine. >justify in fiction That will have to vary by the kaiju.
>>98188473
>>98199934So do you want surprise or not?
>>98188473>>98193740>less about "fighting for your life" and more "fighting to stop destruction on a massive scale". I unironically recommend Into the Breach for a videogame that manages to make you feel like a savior, punching the giant monster moments before it can total a residential buildingthe mechanic where the enemies declare their intent and then you get a turn to foil it is masterful design
