Welcome to Open OSR. This thread is for open OSR discussions of TSR-era D&D, retroclones, neoclones and broader OSR-adjacent and retro games.AD&D 2e is on-topic for this thread. Discussions of whether AD&D 2e is OSR or not, both in favour and against the claim, lead to endless flame wars and are undesirable. Please avoid them.There is an /osrg/ general for those of you who prefer discussions about first decade D&D, and if that is your preference, you can find that here: >>98163653Previous thread: >>98184183Thread Question:>Who's your favourite RPG game creator?
>>98190970Answering my own TQ:>Who's your favourite RPG game creator?Hard to choose. I would say Gavin Norman. One can't stress enough how pivotal a well-presented and clear version of B/X was for the OSR scene as a whole. OSE-Advanced is great too. I also love Dolmenwood and Carcass Crawler and many of the Necrotic Gnome modules.Dan Proctor: Labyrinth Lord and Mutant Future, albeit the last LL edition is disappointing.Jaquay: Too many dungeons to mention, but let's say Caverns of Thracia, Dark Tower, and Borshak's Lair.Michael Curtis: Stonehell, but lots of DCC stuff too, not often talked about. Greg Gillespie: Dragonslayer and the Barromaze series.Melan: Castle Xyntillan, Khosura.
>>98190970>Who's your favourite RPG game creator?Easily Alexander Macris, the greatest to do it since Gygax.
>>98190987>Jaquay?????????
I don't really have a lot of favorite anything. I don't really track who writes what for the most part.But at least one stands out.Kevin Crawford: The without number guy, damn he does a crazy amount of really solid work. His SWN faction stuff is usable for many games, I use it in my current savage worlds game.If he writes it, I'll give it a look. They guy really does great work.
>>98191354NTA, but she was a designer who did a lot of the early dungeons listed. Apparently also did the art for dragon mountain
>>98191354You can't be serious>>98191389*he
>>98191502You do you, but I'll call her she.
>>98190987>>98191349>>98191369Good answers
>>98191502>You can't be seriousHis name was Paul Jaquays, I'm questioning why he's the only one on the list denoted solely by his misspelled surname.
>>98191511*him*he
>>98191521NTA but likely to avoid the trans argument. I said she and some folks are posting to start shit over it.
>>98191535Yeah well maybe you should have avoided the trans argument by not going along with delulu then. I mean the guy isn't even alive to give a shit, why maintain the lie at this point.
>>98191554Because I had no clue who they were and Google said she. You do you man, I tend to respect what folks call themselves. If I am not fucking them it's none of my business do eh, whatever.
>>98191521OP here.I didn't misspell the surname intentionally.I skipped Jaquays' given name because neither seemed right TO ME in the context: Like most people, I tend to use artists' stage names, so I say "David Bowie" instead of David Robert Jones and "Iggy Pop" instead of James Newell Osterberg Jr.. Jaquays went by the name "Jennel" for a few years before passing away, but by the name "Paul" when the modules I mentioned were published.
Looking for something to read. What's your favourite lesser known adventure or setting?
>>98193333What settings have you read?
>>98193333Mystara. Lesser kniwn adventures i'd reccomend?>Night's Dark Terror>King's Festival>palace of the vampire queen
>17 posts>last three were a transparent bump from page 9 and two zero-content bot tier replies>already stonededdi
>>98193873Thanks, I'll check those out
>>98194161Whoever made this one popped it too early. The other thread is still active and it's 2 spots from. Archival. The thread question is also a bit weak and I learned myself that can be an issue
>>98190970If you're talking older D&D designers, my favorites would probably be Tom Moldvay, Jim Bambra, Graeme Morris, Carl Sargent, and Bruce Cordell. Moldvay made the best version of Basic and, for my money, the three best adventures for that version of the game, The Lost City, Isle of Dread, and Castle Amber. The guy is to Basic as Gygax is to AD&D. Jim Bambra and Graeme Morris are the guys other than Gygax and Mentzer responsible for most of my other favorite adventures from the period: B10, UK2, UK3, and UK7. It's been really gratifying to see the UK adventures finally get their due in the past several years, since they did a much better job of holding onto early D&D's spirit of pulp and just outright weirdness than the renfaire shit that increasingly dominated AD&D over time. Bambra and Morris also contributed to a lot of my favorite WFRP adventures, like the first two of the three good parts of the Enemy Within campaign, with Sargent writing the last of the three.Sargent is the most hit and miss of my favorites, but when he hits (like with Power Behind the Throne, The Night Below, and City of Skulls), he really fucking hits. Sargent was a weird dude in general. He studied psychic phenomena as a scholar at Oxford before skeptics pushed him out and he was forced to turn his gaming hobby into a job to pay the bills. His better stuff, like the stuff I mentioned above, is usually experimental in some way. You can feel when something has his attention because he's trying new things, and you can feel when he's just filling a contract (like with his work for Basic and his adventures in Dungeon) because it's almost paint by numbers. Still, probably the single most ambitious designer from mid-period TSR, while still keeping a foot in the classics.
>>98194521Then we got Bruce Cordell, hands down the best adventure designer for 2e. Return to the Temple of Elemental Evil, The Shattered Circle, Night of the Shark, Gates of Firestorm Peak, Dawn of the Overmind. The guy is the absolute king of high level D&D where you feel like you're actually facing high level threats, being as informed by Jack Kirby-esque cosmic weirdness and Lovecraft as RE Howard, Lieber, and high fantasy. I maintain he did this stuff better than anyone writing similar content for 1st edition, up to and including Gygax. Guy's fallen off over the years, but even some of his more recent adventures for Monte Cook have been decent. Fuck this was way longer than I expected lol
>>98194469Ignore trolls.
>>98190970>Who's your favourite RPG game creator?On Topic? Don Kaye. I like Boot Hill, even though it's kinda mid for long campaigns. It's perfect for one shots in response to last minute cancellations or incidents.
>>98194874What did he do beside boot Hill?
We need a better topic. Because frankly most games don't care who wrote what. Most of us don't care who made what or follow creators. We just read whatever looks interesting and play games. A topic like this is never gonna get heavy traction
>>98196372Right? Like who gives a shit. I'm never going to buy a game because Some Dude worked on it. I'm gonna pirate it and if I like it, buy it.
>Who's your favourite RPG game creator?I have a soft spot for Moldvay. OD&D was becoming a bit of a mess. Gygax was in a "throw it at the wall and see what sticks" design mode, and still had no idea what the game was yet. Gygax was still operating in a mindset tied to his war gaming roots and hadn't really figured out what the core of the game was yet, and kept looking to other war games for additional rules.Holmes deserves a lot of credit for figuring out the rough core of the game when he worked on Basic, but there was a lot of intereference/additions that came from Gygax that made the final product pretty flawed. I think Moldvay succeeded in taking Basic and polishing it up in a way that was ahead of its time, so far ahead that when Mentzer tried to advance it he actually made it take a step backward.Moldvay's B/X is far from perfect, and owes a lot to its contemporary games and the efforts of the D&D/RPG community that was growing at the time, but there was still a lot of foresight that can be seen in the game and some good design principles that would have helped Gygax (and Mentzer) considerably if he stopped to actually try to understand them. I also like Moldvay's adventures. Sadly, they're not exactly the best to play through (some are actually pretty fucking awful in that regard) and their "inspirations" were pretty on the nose, but in the context of what they were trying to do and what aspects of the game they were trying to explore, they were incredibly innovative and were moving the game in a direction that was greater than just the mere sum of its parts.Moldvay had a lot of weaknesses as a designer, and was working without the benefit of decades of hindsight, so there's a lot to complain about his works. But, compared to other early D&D designers, he seemed to have a much better idea of how people were actually playing the game.
>>98196441Same, I don't often look at who wrote it. I just wanna see if I like it. But to be fair, it's hard to get a good engaging question. Over time we have asked most things. We also only can play so many games, so it's not like we have new things to tell daily.How about this one. What was your first OSR/TSR era game?
>>98196517To get this rolling and add a second topic, I'll answer my own question.I first played AD&D2e( well technically MSH was my first TSR game). My first OSR game was labyrinth lord , but it was a short game that didn't last because of RL scheduling issue.
>>98196517My first OSR/TSR era game and RPG as a whole AD&D 2e. In middle school, a bunch of my friends ended up getting ahold of the Dark Sun video game of all things and passing it around. They fucking loved it and wanted to play more. The guy who was going to be our GM found out it was actually based on a "board game" that his older brother had some of the books for. While he was waiting to get the Dark Sun box set for Christmas, he ran a campaign for a few months based on his brother's FR books in the Sword Coast every weekend, and we had the time of our lives. We ended up going back to that campaign after only a couple months of Dark Sun after he got the box, because he thought you were basically supposed to run the shitty adventure that came with the box. So while the game was super cool, the RPG ended up being about wandering around the desert bored and dying of thirst.
>>98196723Some version of D&D is often the first TTRPG. Dark suns being what drew you in is interesting, hands down one of the best settings they made but not for everyone New GMs thinking they had to run the adventures is also kinda common. You don't know what you don't know.
>>98196517BECMI
>>98198216The little book let's or where you someone who actually found a copy of the rules encyclopedia? That think felt impossible to find in the 90s.
>>98198268I started playing in the early eighties. I've never owned a copy of the Rules Cyclopedia.
>>98198296That's fair, I started in 90 or 91, can't recall which. But didn't really find out about basic or whatever until later and by then it was hard to get the books in my area.
>>98196346He didn't really do Boot Hill. He contributed a small amount to the rules and wrote a few scenarios but to call him a creator or designer of Boot Hill is a long stretch. Then he died less than a year after D&D was published and before Boot Hill was published. There's a reason his name isn't on the cover of the rule book and that wasn't Gygax and Blume trying to stiff his widow of royalties.
>>98194161>already stonededdiAnd all the posting after this is a bunch of one-line bumps with a handful of AI longposts to try to camouflage them lmao
>>98198306Very different generations, obviously.
>>98190970My new house rule is that orcs are called carmelos
>>98190970I made a funny thought you guys might enjoy
>>98200625Yeah lol. I have a PDF of it now, it was an interesting nostalgic read. Same they didn't support it much back in the day, but it's understandable.
What time period was peak Gygax? What was his actual best work?
>>982008671973-1983. OD&D Little Brown Books up through the last truly great thing he made, the World of Greyhawk Boxed Set. Ten year run ain't bad, and he did come out with some solid work here and there after that.
>>98200761Ah, Chick edits. Always brightens my day.
>>98196346Die.
>>98202357Gods above I hated those fucking things. You still see them all the time in bathrooms around here
>>98200761Absolute dogshit
>>98200761That's very, very bad.Also bump.
While it is crap, to be fair chick tacts are always hot steamy piles of runny shit
>>98200761wait why is PTBA in this?
>>98200761
I’m sure this isn’t a new idea, but I like the idea of using smaller dice for encounter checks and reaction/attitude checks, then you can add to the roll or roll bigger dice when shit gets worse.For example, on my shoreline encounter chart, 1-3 is no encounter, 4-5 is amphibious goblins and 6 is crabs, so for actual shoreline (beach) encounters I would roll 1d6. 7 is small sharks, and 8 is evil eels, so in shallow water I roll 1d8. The chance of getting “no encounter” goes down. 1d10 is deep water and 1d12 is just for weird storms that bring up monsters from the depths, and the high end of the encounter chart is increasingly-bad sea monsters. When there is blood in the water, or when the stars are right, I add +1 or more to the encounter roll AND to the reaction roll (the reaction roll being inverted so that higher=worse). This can produce seamonsters even on the 1d6 “beach” encounter roll, in which case they just stalk the party hoping that someone will get in the water (the eels will tell you that they’ve found treasure but you shouldn’t listen).I know this isn’t how old D&D does things (Gygax’s encounter charts are awesome and I hope to use them elsewhere in the same game), but I assume it must have been done before at some point, it seems so obvious.
>>98205498I think that could work, but it seems more work and fewer options to me personally. I think it can work fine to save space if you only have a few options a d6 or d8 works fine.
>>98206765I am the one who normally does these, this one isn't mine. I'll post another if I want to post one. Others will do as they wish too.
>>98190970Session 1 of Stonehell next sunday. What do anons reccommend advice wise?
>>98207638What is stonewall?
>>98206872>I am the one who normally does these, this one isn't mine.What difference does that make? You figure a base is going to miraculously appear to talk in yours?>I'll post another if I want to post one.Yeah obviously, duh. You could similarly post a Diapertranny General or an Excuse Me, Commissar thread if you felt like it.I'm advising you not to.
>>98207806So should we show up and talk about OSR stuff like 2e ,knave or shadowdark if we feel like it in the osrg, is that what you are saying?
Anyone here play WWN? I'm asking about general recommendations for party composition, and how pure versus adventurer classes compare.
>>98207882Have not played that one, but my limited experience with SWN is its likely to be soild. Sorry can't really help much with actual play info on WWN though
>>98207843No, those are off topic in /osrg/ obviously, since they're not OSR games. You should simply start a dedicated thread for the individual game now and then, or try an /nsrg/.But, I mean, looking at how much traffic this thread is getting maybe you should just give up on talking about it on /tg/. Advanced Squad Leader doesn't get a lot of threads either, even though it's a traditional game.
>>98207638Anon, you're in a nevergames thread with no actual discussion. You won't be getting any good quality replies here. Meanwhile, on the real /osrg/, there's three different Anons DMing Stonehell campaigns, posting play reports, sharing maps, and so on. Try asking there:>>98163653>>98163653>>98163653
>>98207882I've also only tried SWN, but since the WWN classes pretty much directly parallel the SWN classes, I think you'll be fine. My group had one of each of the main three classes and a Warrior/Psionicist, and we never felt completely left out to dry with game content or anything. I do know that WWN has a bunch of classes that act as variants for the core three, but I think as long as you have all three of the core roles filled in some way, you'll be OK. Long as you have those three bases covered, whether as the original classes, variants, or some combination of core classes and adventurer classes, that should be enough.
>>98207638Are you playing or DMing?
>>98207693Stonewall is a gay bar.
>>98209534And stonedead is a gay thread.
>>98200867According to Gygax, his favorite thing to run/play was the earliest, most basic form of OD&D. This remained true all the way up until right before he died.
>>98209534>>98209538>no one tell them about Stonetop
>>98204841>While it is crap, to be fair chick tacts are always hotSome of the girls are pretty great. Marcie is a cutie.
>>98190970>>Who's your favourite RPG game creator?Most of my journey through OSR has been realizing that game designers are very, very human.Embarrassingly human. I don't think there's any adventure that I've actually enjoyed as written.
>>98208137Those are OSR games and why we keep making threads because OSR is not what you think it is. So just fuck off back to your thread or I will start posting there
>>98207843>>98208137>>98210812>Those are OSR gamesThe OP explicitly requests that this conversation NOT be had in this thread. Please make your own thread if you want to discuss whether 2e is OSR or not.
>>98210812>fuck off back to your threadYou don't get to say who can or cannot post here, or anywhere on 4chan, for that matter.And like the other Anon said, we do not want discussions about what is or isn't OSR here. Please stop trolling.
>>98209534Lol yeah autocorrect. I was like, wait no, I know that one .
>>98211041To answer your question Stonehell Dungeon is a 3rd party megadungeon that is rather popular in OSR circles.
>>98211108It's not one I have heard of, but I don't tend to really pay a lot of mind to mega dungeons honestly.
>>98210812>So just fuck off back to your thread or I will start posting thereLmao this is absolutely the most toothless threat of all time, it would be feeble even if the jannies didn't reliably baleet shitposts in /osrg/ (but they do, inshallah).
>>98211126NTA, but I think mega dungeons are a wonderful bad idea. Like someone running a marathon. When people push themselves further than they're supposed to, their bodies break down and many literally shit themselves, some even just outright die from heart attacks/heat stroke/etc. Making a megadungeon starts to look like that. You see people start running out of ideas and just throwing things together and really scraping the bottom of the barrel and venturing into places that only the most desperate people are willing to go to. They're not necessarily good dungeons to play through or even read through, but they sometimes go places that are genuinely unique.
>>98211527They are just to much for me. It's an entirely campaign setting of pages, but limited to one massive, nearly endless adventure few can play though. It's just to much of a time investment. I could run 3 or 4 games with the time and effort one requires.
>>98211544I think there's plenty of lessons to be learned from building too big, just like there's lessons to be learned from too small.Five and even three room dungeons are not about providing a complete dungeon experience for players, and are partly to let DM's learn about what is vital to a dungeon, by letting them test what they think is most important and allowing them experience the absence of what's missing.>It's just to much of a time investment.Mega-dungeons help you learn how to manage your time, and the sheer size of the dungeon helps motivate players to make decisions faster and just generally play faster, because spending five hours to clear .001% of a dungeon is just not a good pace.
>>98211687>>Mega-dungeons help you learn how to manage your timeNo it makes my brain go "this is boring and it sucks the joy out of life" and then It's a fucking chore as it's no longer fun, it's pure work. Its just to much and my brain can't do that kinda life sucking commitment to a single campaign. I just can fucking not. Cudos to those who can but, fuck that.
>>98191511You're the problem, applauding while the medical industry carves up the mentally ill for profit
>>98211988It's all steps in a much bigger process. If they can figure out how to attach a dick to a woman, then there's hope for you yet.
What are other folks thoughts on mega dungeons?
