It's been a good long time since we had an epic thread>what's the deal with epic?wargaming in 30k/40k with smaller minis, so you can do much larger battles than is practical at 28mm. allows for including formations of aircraft, titans, and even spacecraft - stuff that is technically possible in 40k but breaks the scale and game length. small units like infantry and bikes are multi-based, while armor comes in formations instead of singly.>RULESthere's three recent limited epic games from GW, plus the older Epic Armageddon that is community maintained and remains the most popular version. There is also a smaller fan maintained version of Epic 2nd ed.>Modern GW EpicLegions Imperialis: A rough reboot of 2nd ed, with heavily simplified titan rules. focused entirely on Horus Heresy, so no xenos and no 40k units.Adeptus Titanicus: Spiritual successor to the original epic, Adeptus Titanicus (1988). focused almost entirely on piloting (imperial) titans, with some support for knight armies.Aeronautica Imperialis: reboot of the same named 00s forgeworld game, much simplified. oncerned entirely with aircraft combat and has almost no ground units.> warhammer.com/egions-imperialis-lp>start-warhammer.com/adeptus-titanicus/>Epic Armageddon (EA aka 4th ed)The jack of all trades edition, with support for every unit type and 100+ army listsRulebook: tp.net-armageddon.org/rules/NetEA Approved Army Lists: tp.net-armageddon.org/EpicUK Army Lists: epic-uk.co.uk/wp/army-lists/Source for lists under development/testing: tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/>Epic Space Marine & Titan Legions (2nd ed)the edition Legions Imperials is based on, good if you want to expand from a start in LI.Rules: netepic.org/core-rules/Lists: netepic.org/army-books/
>MINIScome in 4 types: current GW, old GW epic, forumware, and proxiesCurrent GW support for LI, AT and AI, mostly just imperial units but there's a lot>warhammer.com/en-US/shop/legions-imperialis-the-horus-heresy-eng-2023>Old GW EpicThe first 4 editions of epic were published by GW from 1988 to 2008, and they made a LOT of models. You can still find them 2nd hand on resellers. forgeworld had a line for 4th and AI, but they're rare now. a pretty good catalog is here: miniwars.co.uk/epic-40k/miniatures/>forumwarefan updates of old epic models and scaledowns of 40k models that never got made in epic. used to be distributed by DM on forums (thus the name) but now often printed. New STLs pop up constantly.>proxiesoriginal models that are close enough to stand in for 40k units. small shops doing original minis, and unrelated games at compatible scales like Epic Warpath, Dropzone, CAV or Heavy Gear>onslaughtminiatures.com/>manticgames.com/epic-warpath/>khurasanminiatures.com/6mmscifi.html>vanguardminiatures.co.uk/>alternative-armies.com/collections/bradley-miniatures-6mm-range>microworldgames.com/collections/6mm-scifi>what's up with model scale?shit's complicated. matching models is hard, but the good news is it all can be used in the game.the oldest epics were nominally 6mm but highly variable because handsculpting and GW having no consistent fucking idea what size shit is even supposed to be in their setting. by 3rd/4th ed they settled on a "take the size of the 40k model and divide by 5" rule for consistency, then changed that to "40k divide by 4" for the newest games. so a 30mm marine became 6mm before and now becomes 7.5mm, and everything is about 25mm longer.the scale creep isn't painfully obvious unless you mix different eras of model in the same unit. (except for titans and some aircraft; older 80s/90s titan models are fucking *tiny*.) rules compatibility is fine tho, even proxy 10mm models dont really fuck anything up.
>>98275671Question is if this wasnt better in https://boards.4chan.org/tg/thread/98272086/gwsg-games-workshop-specialist-games#bottomOr you need your own thread for Epic to get enough attention and visibility
>>98275954it's listed in their OP but nobody talks epic there. gwsg is mostly blood bowl / kill team general.but given the response to this I think there are just not really epic players on /tg/ anymore.
>>98276137It is mostly Necromunda, BloodBowl and Kill Team. Games that still get new stuff or attention from GW.
I literally cannot wait for them to be shot off the board
Would love to play but STLs are unobtanium.
>>98276215Sounds like it's time for you to learn how to use blendr, make your own 3D models, then turn them into STLs and print 'em.
>>98276215>STLs are unobtainiumthey definitely aren't, they're crazy common. you just have to do a little hunting. I've seen thousands of epic stls various places that are straight 40k, and thousands more than would be good proxies.>>98276174Legions and Titanicus are still getting stuff. not like... a lot. but some stuff.the bigger issue is EA really needs to nail down what they're bridge lists look like. there are like 5 different concurrent attempts at a SM legion list and none of them are tournament legal yet.
Getting into airbrushing. Should I get the gaahleri turbox mini compressor kit that comes with a GHAD-39 or the ambition series kit that comes with a budget airbrush but a GTS-06 compressor?
love to see more sculptors focusing on admech.they never get enough love.
>>98276215Are there no STLs?
>>98277641anon is just talking shit and too lazy to look.I've found stls for hundreds of epic units just from trawling free stuff cults, thingi, etcsome of the easiest models to find stls for, and cheap to print too because they're short
>>98276174The biggest issue with Legions Imperialis is that it's Horus Heresy. No joke it'd be as popular as Kill Team if GW wasn't so paranoid about it cannibalizing 40k sales they stuck it in the 30k ghetto.
>>98278164I wonder if there were also some lingering worries from the last time they did Epic in a big way? Coupled with all those production and warehouse bottlenecks they had until recently (maybe still do and they're just not mentioned as much, for all I know), with a dash of that very cautious conservatism that seems to dominate their thinking since and you're not about to get a sudden Man O War (for instance) out of nowhere any time soon. Corporate memories and 'everyone knows' can be annoyingly persistent.
>>98278164yeah it's a decision for sure. it's best to think of legions as just a gateway game to epic. it offers players a taste and a way to get (some) minis, but it's not a replacement for the real thing.if its any consolation if nu-GW did a "real" epic game they'd probably fuck it up anyhow. it's not like there was ever a chance of them making something *better* than what EA is now.
>>98278047Thats what i thought. Look at BFG, how many STLs they have. And they are not active supported by GW for 15 years. Ok they had a videogame, but Epic had Aeronautica, HorusHeresy and Titanicus in that time.
>>98278164Gw doesn't fear li cannibalizing 40k lmao, setting stuff in 30k is just 20x times more efficient because the one faction you make can be used by 18 different armies.
>>98279393Whatever the logic behind it is it still sucks, if the rumoured/teased Battlefleet Gothic reboot actually happens and it turns out to be another Heresy game I'm gonna freak.
>>98280071>If it turns out to be another Heresy game I'm gonna freakor just choose to not. we've got current BFG and Epic Armageddon. they are good, and complete, and cover a very large range of imperial and xenos factions. that will continue to be true.We got LI, and it was... fine. Just 30k, and the rules are the half-assed unbalanced mess we've come to expect, full of proofreading errors and untested interactions. but they made some plastic models, and some of them were pretty good, and some new players got exposed to epic. and then everybody went back to playing EA. If we got a BFG 30k, the exact same thing would happen.
>>98280071>if the rumoured/teased Battlefleet Gothic reboot actually happens and it turns out to be another Heresy game I'm gonna freakThis, I'll make KyoAni look like a fucking joke.
>>98279182>if its any consolation if nu-GW did a "real" epic game they'd probably fuck it up anyhow. it's not like there was ever a chance of them making something *better* than what EA is now.It's not so much about the rules as the models and official support. People can yap all day about how you can print stuff but if you want to get a bunch of new blood into the game to create a healthy sized community you need models you can buy off a shelf. The community can still use their unofficial rules if they want but new models will help us get more players.
>>98280992Definitely agree. Legions even as limited as it is saw a huge influx of new players to epic communities. a real new epic would be that, just more players and more hype.there's never a point where that stops being the case either. models are more available now than they were in Epic's supposed golden era in the 90s. if I want to purchase a model for a rhino, I probably have 30+ different options to choose from. in *addition* to printing. I can have them old or new style, in resin or metal or plastic, cheap or expensive. everything from exact dupes of FW models to counts-as dune and star wars shiit's not about model availability, it's about model officialness. grogs can screech about it all they want, but the simple fact is that most players cannot and will not use a model unless GW tells them to. they're not gonna go looking for alternatives, and they're not going to buy them if they find them. that's just what the hobby is today, so get used to it.
>>98279176it's not conservativism as much as just "minimize risk" math im o. they design all the small games for individual products to be fire n forget, and be able to cut a game loose at any time if it stops showing consistent profit. that kind of thinking means small scope and self contained releases. not a big span game.
What ruleset is being considered THE standard for Epic? Which variant of the game I'm most likely to see among local Epic players?
>>98281470Epic Armageddon in most clubs or private settings. Legions Imperialis in GW stores and some FLGS.
>>98281470>>98281620this is basically correct. EA is/was the most played by far. on release it was very popular for basically finding a middle road between the crunchiness of 2nd and the abstractness of 3rd, and revived epic from dying ember to full flame. and then after specialist games went to living rulebooks and shit slowly went out of stock, it just sorta stayed popular with community support.the same EA core rules are used prettymuch universally, but theres different army list books depending on where you are. america uses NetEA lists, UK uses EpicUK lists, france has the FERC rules committee, etc. they're all mostly compatible but exactly what lists are tourney legal varies.more recently new Adeptus Titanicus was popular for a couple years going into covid. and then Legions Imperialis is somewhat popular now just by virtue of being supported thing. and lots of people play both because LI is basically just 2nd ed with rewritten army lists for HH and the titans dumbed down into regular units (since actual 2nd edition had both the epic rules and titanicus as one big game, but nuGW didn't want it to compete with another specialist game).
>>98282394As a non-epic player that likes to see the minis, this is very interesting. Thanks anon.
A friend and I got some LI models but I have no real desire to play the standard game. What's the best version of Epic for 30k and where can I find the army lists that will cover all my units.
>>98284164those pre-titanicus HH minis are still wild to see, they still look great.not sure if those ones are mostly prints or forumware though. I have a lot of forumware from the early-mid 00s, but I think those are around 2017 which is right when resin printing at home suddenly got cheap and good.I really want to get into Eldar, but I can't decide what to do about tank models. not that there aren't options, just finding options I actually like.
>>98284338NTA but yeah they do
>>98284316the easiest one is tracking down the EpicAU horus heresy PDF. it's basically a straight port of the alan bligh heresy codexes for epic armageddon so it has everything that was current in lore until that point.I know there've been lists built for adding those armies to Epic Gold and Net Epic Armageddon too but I dont think any are tourney approved yet (that process takes a long time). try poking around the tactical command forums or the epic discord if you can't find it by googling.
>>98275671I like Epic and Adeptus Titanic (1st ed) and have been playing them since they first came out. It was a pain trying to get stuff though, as GW was very sparce with the stocking at the time, so we tended to use proxies, card counters or scratchbuilt vehicles out of balsa wood and bits of plastic.One good thing about when GW releases a new game or range of models that is incompatible with the original one (ie Adeptus Titanicus), is that if you are quick enough, you can hoover up tons of cheap models when all the "I only play with the latest thing" autists dump all their old stuff on Ebay and charity shops. Over the years, I have managed to collect quite a large collection of the Beetleback Titans using this method, only at a quid or two per model.It comes in handy when my mate (who uses the same method for collecting ork stuff) wants a nice big battle.
>>98285993that's a very colorful titan collection. should post more/better pics.I saw someone who was taking those old titans recently and built an army around them with 3mm epic. 10-15 infantry and 3 tanks to a stand. really big forces, looked badass.>98284338there's a comical number of eldar lists/ just looking for transports and regular shit, or more exotic stuff
Can we walk about Warmaster here?
>>98282394>>98284164Worth pointing out, a decent number of tournaments, cons and most more casual settings will let you use both NetEA and EpicUK lists, and some of the older dev lists too (like from the compendium). so you usually have some options.
>>98275704Think it'll work with 15mm models? My buddy talked me into printing a bunch of stuff at 15mm for a lightly homebrewed version of OPR. Painting them gave me the itch for true epic.
>>98285993>>98287229I agree that this colorfull box has a charm to it.>>98288136Fantasy and 40k are very different. Shouldnt this be in the specialist games thread?
>>98288368I think 10mm can keep roughly the same distances as written and not feel too bad, but with 15s you might need to multiply by 1.5 or 2 or it might feel weirdly slow and small. You'd have to try it for yourself though, see how it 'tastes' I guess.
>>98288810>Fantasy and 40k are very different. Shouldnt this be in the specialist games thread?arguably this "should" be in the specialist thread too, but fuck it. agree a WMR player wouldn't have much to post about here though, different rules, different models, different lore.>>98288368>>98288813you could probably get away with counts-as a lot for infantry, but it's either gonna get very big (15mm vehicles are MUCH bigger than even 10mm) or it's going to break down when handling larger units. epic has a very fucking fudgy scale so I'm not going to say it's impossible.
>>98288892>arguably this "should" be in the specialist thread tooI looked at more how much interaction you get. Would a Warmaster user visit an Epic thread? Even this thread is slow and i bumped this thread two times. So it seems joining the Specialist Games thread is better. But it could be drowned by Necromunda, Bloodbowl and Kill Team discussion.
Maybe a miniscale or army tabletop thread would be better to include everything in that size?
Always wish I'd picked this up and the metal extras
>>98289302I remember there being an attempt at a general a year or so ago that was like Epic, BFG, plus stuff like horizon wars, full thrust, firestorm, drop zone/fleet, etc. basically just smol scifi. which makes some sense because even if you have a lot of different rules they share a bunch in terms of model proxies, terrain, campaigns and shit. warmasters only connection is that it's smaller that 28mm. rank n flank fantasy otherwise has fuck all to do with sci-fi games.
>>98289321Right. They had a 32mm Lord,9f the Rings system.
>>98289816I mean 6mm size. Or what size are they.
>>98289831the Bo5A set was a small (like historical) 10mm. where most of the warmaster armies were more of a heroic 10mm.
What do you all think of the scale here? I've never had any epic scale minis so it's hard to check. The round bases are 32x32 mm. The predator is 32x48 mm. Do you think I should use the guys on the bottom right as my marine scale, or safe that for standard size infantry and use the ones on the top? Unfortunately I cant really make the terminator sized dudes any smaller without them looking awful.
>>98288813>>98288892Thanks anons. I'll probably try to talk my buddy into trying it out with scaled up distances.
>>98290055They're a little bigger than typical epic but should still work. for ref checks, old epic (6mm) is 1/5th of 40k and legions (8mm) is 1/4th of 40k. so a rhino for example is 110mm long in 40k, 22mm long in 6mm and 28mm long in 8mm. both scales are legal so you get an idea of the "range".
>>98275671Curious about the basing recipe here.
>>98290708Looks like I'm currently at 48mm, that's like 50% too big. Looks like the lego idea isnt really feasible unless I seriously scale down the tanks to only 4 lego studs long, that sucks. I suppose I might be able to pull that off but they'd be really basic looking. Shame. Did a little test of what a 4 stud long tank would look like and it's... Alright. I might just accept that I'm at 12mm scale instead of 8mm to give me more wiggle room with the vehicles.
Anyone have a pdf/epub/etc of the full arks of omen books? They aren't in the hash. Just want the lore really as want to read up on the Lion and his battle or Angron.
>>98290800just looks like a pva+sand base, drybrushed up with browns and tans, and a few tufts.it's got a little yellow in it to complement the main scheme so I'd hazard they used something like a tomb king scheme for it. red brown under brushed up to an ivory.
anybody got any epic warpath stuff to the table yet? opinions on their ruleset if you've used it?the models look pretty good from photos and they launched with a bunch of dif armies.I've always liked mantic's design for squats. slaps the shit out of votann bubbles.
>>98292019Thanks, I'm asking because there's a bunch of "texture paints" floating around and if it was one of those it was definitely an instant buy from my lazy bones.
>>98293419you could do that with a texture paint, but you'd still have to drybrush it in a lighter color to get the depth. texture paints are basically just sand + pva + paint premixed in a bottle, with a 2000% markup for convenience.
>>98280992>>98281404I'll never understand this mindset. What's the point of recruiting new people into "the community" if none of them are playing the actually good game that already exists that you want to play?Nucromunda is bigger than the classic game ever was in terms of sheer numbers of people playing, but they're all playing Nucromunda which is fuck all use to me, someone who wants to play NCE. If anything Nucromunda has made it *harder* to play NCE because when some noob does come along who wants to play a 40K gang skirmish game they don't filter all the way down to local clubs where grog groups can capture them, they get snaffled up by GW directly and by the time they reach club level they're already sucked in to the newshiny version.Even BloodBowl, which has a huge international organisation that was running leagues for years before GW stepped back in, is beginning to struggle to get new people to play the classic version.Shit, try getting anyone who wasn't alive at the time to play 6th WHFB over TOW.LIgma and Titanicus don't fit the pattern because they're not 1:1 replacements, in both cases because of the more limited setting but also in the former case because they're based on a less popular version of the rules and in the latter case because it's essentially a different game entirely(and perhaps the singular example of GW making a better product than the old one). If they make Epic Armageddon 2: Primarishart Boogaloo it's not going to result in a grand resurgence for classic Epic, it will hollow out and eventually kill classic Epic's community as first the paypigs amongst you begin leaving to play the newshiny version, then by intercepting possible new recruits.GW don't bring back Specialist Games to enrich and expand the existing community because they see the existing community as a competitor.
>>98279182Only problem is that once again too many GW slop pigs won't continue on, pass go, and get to the good epic scale games. Instead they stay in Ligma, which is absolute trash
>>9828836815mm is more for playing 30k/40k style games beyond reinforced-platoon size at a more reasonable scale. Epic is less interested in individual infantry figures.
>>98281470It's Epic Armageddon.The older additions have some die hards you rarely ever hear about, but quite frankly they were mid at best. EA is epic scale perfected.I was also encourage anons to look at Armoured Clash, which is literally tweaked Epic Armageddon. Eight different factions, great kits that don't rape your wallet, actively balanced, etc. it's a real fun game.
>>98293457This is a very good post, as an enjoyer of the Fanatic magazine era myself
>>98293457You can fail to understand it all you want. bitching about it on the internet still isn't going to grow your group.
>>98293935NTA but he's right though, you're just running apologetics for buying nuGW stuff and supporting nuGW's business approach.I had a lot more fun with Blood Bowl when it was in the hands of the NAF and the Community Edition, than with GW's return and DLC-style releases and balancing and "zany" rules dreamed up by soiboys paid less than supermarket workers. All served up with a side of planned obsolescence.
>>98289321Where do you live anon? My LGS has this on the shelf, they've got loads of weird old box sets. 2E codexes, Burning of Prospero, 4/5E Army books. Its a goldmine honestly.Portsmouth, UK.
>>98294106Up in Hull mate, we have some really good shops and two clubs but no real Aladdin's Cave type places with loads of old blisters etc.Is it Southsea Models & Games? Looks good if so
>>98294123Yeah thats the one. Might be a trek from Hull, if you're serious about the box set maybe reach out on FB and see if they can deliver.
>>98276215Don't even need STLs, there's loads of 6mm sci-fi sculpts like Brigade, Ground Zero and Khurasan you can use to proxy with.>>98281470Certainly in the UK it's Epic Armageddon. Epic 40k was too abstracted for most and limited by not having many official lists at time of release.
>>98293476You're sure about that? I've heard some shit about Armoured Clash not fielding enough armours despite it's name and when I compared AC starter set to Epic Warpath it looked quite true.But you know better than me. I was merely looking before buying but you obviously played at least AC so I'm curious what you have to say.
>>98293457>I'll never understand this mindset. What's the point of recruiting new people into "the community" if none of them are playing the actually good game that already exists that you want to play?The point is to squeeze out the community that doesn't make money for GW. You figured it out, you're just on the loosing side. It sucks and >>98293935is a good example of shitty corporate 'community is.
>>98294046I'm not apologizing for shit. The point is that for any existing epic group, a substantial percentage of new players coming in the last bunch of years are being introduced through LIgma or AT. they already have those models and are playing that game when you meet them. you want to be morally superior and alone, that's your choice. It's unproductive. converting LIgma players to Epic Gold is pretty easy because it's the same fucking game with better lists. converting them to EA is harder. it's that simple. you have to meet in the middle.
>>98294448I haven't played the most recent edition but if it's actually like Epic then it's a gigantic leap. Armoured Clash was a Spartan engine game built off dystopian wars. exploding dice and all that shit.
anons, been playing some legions and trying to decide what to get to make the same army play as EA.I want to use the Salamanders EA list. I'm splitting two boxes (bros getting the solar aux) so I have the contents of the starter doubled:- 4x Legion Command Squads- 16x Tactical Legionaries Squads- 4x Legion Terminators Squads- 4x Assault Marines Squads- 4x Support Legionaries with Plasma Guns Squads- 4x Support Legionaries with Missile Launchers Squads- 8x Contemptor Dreadnoughts- 4x Sicaran Tanks- 6x Predator TanksI think I'm going to add a box of rhinos and a thunderhawk. and maybe a whirlwind box and use some of them as hunters. how does this look:6+2 tac marines + 4 rhinos 3506+2 tac marines + 4 rhinos 3506 Devastators + 2 Dreadnoughts 4504 Assault Marines + Chaplain 2004 Terminators 325 + Thunderhawk 2004 Predators + 2 Predator Incinerators 3504 Landraiders (Sicaran proxy) + Hunter 4004 Whirlwinds + Hunter 350
>>98289298>Kill Team KT is so hated that they had to fuck off to a separate thread and eventually died.
>>98293457>Even BloodBowl, which has a huge international organisation that was running leagues for years before GW stepped back in, is beginning to struggle to get new people to play the classic version.Isn't NAF using Blood Bowl 2025 rules? Even FUMBBL switched to slave-rules long time ago. I don't think anyone plays with LRB6 or CRP at this point which is extremely sad.
>>98295179>>98294448They changed a lot from the olde Days of the Spartan games attempt, essentially James Hewitt of Adeptus Titanicus fame was hired to give it a once over and he just turned it into not! Epic Armageddon.> Less vehiclesI mean, it's a company/battalion, you essentially get small squads of vehicles you can reinforce into platoon level, and you take multiple of them. I would also say vehicles are generally tougher than in Epic (and the huge vehicles even more so) but everything can still die.
>>98298101>new edition is just a different gameI guess corporate buyouts be like that sometimes
what do anons think about number of models on a base? I see a lot of tyranid armies with gaunts in these massive swarms with 15+ models all together. but RAW infantry stands are always supposed to be 3 min 7 max.
>>98298956A non-issue, at least in the UK, where de facto the community has replaced all references to "at least one model on the base" to "over the base". Because frankly measuring to each 6mm model on a stand for ZoC, weapon ranges and templates is excessive admin, even if it is RAW.It's one of those interpretations of the rules which EpicUK really need to write down in an fan errata/FAQ because there's quite a few of them. It happens. Apperently the Canadians tore themselves apart because someone wanted to deploy corners at a tourney and for some reason no one else had ever done that, even though it's clearly written in the rulebook as an option for the tournament scenario.
>>98299421What does any of that have to do with anything
>>98298956The old Tyranid big organisms tried too much to look like tanks. But it really perfected the alien uncanny-ness.
>>98304293nids are one of the armies where old nids and new nids are basically totally different things.
>>98304363They were kinda evolving. Funny how they, as a faction, changed that much. Who else changed that drastically? Necron? Squats dont count since they completly vanished for 20 years.
>>98305146
>>98294616The point is that you're a seething retard who either didn't read or didn't understand my post, which specifically points out why LIgma doesn't have the toxic effect on Epic that an actual proper Epic reboot would, in the way that Nucromunda has for Necromunda and nuBB has for BB.
>>98305146Crons for sure. and all of admech besides the titans. priests, skitarii, robots, and knights all changed dramatically from their original form to their later versions.It's a notable gap with NetEA because they still haven't approved "new" versions of those armies.
>>98305591Admech really evolved much. But they were a sub part of your faction that got their own army faction.
>>98289321why do the wargs look like jimmy saviles head
>>98305157>>98305591>>98307046yeah it's basicallyTitan Legions: mostly unchanged except for some specifics of the titan guard.Skitarii Legion: oldschool skitariiKnight World Defense Force: old 90s style knightsthere's a bunch that habe been in dev for a while but I dont know if they're still getting championed- Explorator Fleet is nu-skitarii- Knight Crusade and Knight World are nu-knight lists- Mech Taghmata is Legions robots
Is it just me or does the Squat list kinda suck ?
>>98307605kinda suck for what?it's basically just orks but more armor. and landtrain.which is all they ever were
>>98308405In general.They lack any real air, Overlords are ground only and honestly not worth it. Sure they are basically flying baneblades but at the price point its not really worth it to get more than one and if you get just one you will get fucked by blast markers too easilly. For anti-air you have a wonderful choice between a land train cart and immobile artillery, either locking you into an unit or preventing you from really advancing without getting bombed to shit.They have NO tanks that are not super heavy moving castles.I dunno man I played a game with them, felt underwhelmed, is all.>squats like orksThey are nothing alike the only resemblance is three unit sizes. Orks get all the customisation in the world, superior blast reduction from all the nobz and soak from grots, tanks with carry capacity... They are a full fledged well rounded army and Squats dont feel like one.
>>98308634AA is a pain in the ass with them. its basically deploy thunderfire to cover the more open LOS table quarter, and then have your train advance with the other formations in the center or opposite flank.the real star isnt overlords, its gyrocopters. they;re as important as the vulture / vendetta swarms in the drop troop and air cav guard lists. highly mobile, long-ish range, and you can take them up to company size if you want. they fuck, and theyre basically your tank squads in this list. if you do overlords, take a pair.for the big infantry blobs, dont underestimate the mole. its pretty cheap for the transport cap, and being able to get to the midline on turn 2 without having to worry about getting shot up does a bit to offset not having a grot sponge.remember also that on the M/L formations you get extra hearthguard too, plus the iron will rule. helps your dudes stay in it a little longer than they might otherwise.
has anybody done good side by side scale comparisons of legions models vs epic models? or different proxies? how well shit plays together is hard to judge from pics
>>98311597Infantry basically doesn't matter.Tanks from Ligma to olde epic out of scale and somewhat noticable. But old old titans and AT18 titans are crazy out of scale
>>98298704The stated reason is that it got too hard to justify 'every battle is on a coast' to be able to make sure you could jam in boats and shit with the land combat.
>>98312164old titanicus was basically its own scale. It always played with epic, but the titans weren't 6mm. if you look at the old AT books, the warlord was given a smaller height (80 feet, compared to 33m now) but even accounting for that difference the beetleback warlord is only like 1:500.nu titans being huge is a combination of #1 their size increasing in lore, #2 the scale of the game creeping up, #3 titan models actually being made in the same scale as infantry and tanks. >>98312176that wasn't really a thing. armoured clash was DW compatible but it was its own game. the army lists were 100% land and air units.
>>98312164>>98314337I remember this posted on here a way back.seems like infantry scale has not changed much if at all. or it was always just too fuzzy to matter.
>>98293457Pretty much my thoughts. The community has a good thing going with either of the main rulesets. 3d printers are everywhere, people are happy to print stuff for community members that don't have them, and the prints look better than the ligma infantry. I've been working around Australia and there's Epic and Warmaster in the cities and in the regions. They're getting new recruits. It's already accessible.If GW ever release a new Epic it will be a downgraded system with few/no benefits.
>>98316099>If GW ever release a new Epic it will be a downgraded system with few/no benefitsLIgma basically is exactly that. it could be *worse*; at least they used a good edition for their starting point. but most players who are introduced through legions will quickly outgrow it. printers being everywhere is a mixed bag. it means getting armies is cheap and easy, and isn't going anywhere. the game will always be available. downside is unless you already have a big established club it's harder to form groups because the game has totally separated from stores and traditional publishing.
>>98298101>>98298704the new armoured clash rules look like a headache. and a very long way from the elegance of epic. every single model has facing and arcs you have to track, infantry are set up to be in rigid blocks like an RnF. there's 6 or 8 statuses each with its own token. a deck of cards is used for orders but a big dice pool is used for attacks. the whole order system and unit activation looks more like Infinity with all its nested reaction steps.no surprise the nu-titanicus guy was involved, because holy fuck the components. GW would be proud. you need custom dice (even tho they could have just been d6s). and not a few - they recommend 25 or 30 custom dice. a shitload of game specific tokens. a proprietary deck of command cards. and custom measuring and turning templates on top of that, for some fucking reason. at least it's distance in inches and not shapes. and then you still need all the unit stat cards too.
>>98315365are there more scale comps like this for new/old epic?specifically for tanks
>>98321640I found these from the community.
>>98321927
Someone made a comp between LI Predator, Sicaran, an Epic Rhino and Land Raider.
>>98321927>>98321928there's a pile of these on the community site (weird case of GW acknowledging the existence of old editions). might be worth compiling. I remember seeing a bunch of top downs on a gridded mat (so you could tell the actual sizes,) on taccom or discord. was pretty handy. will see if I can find it back.
this is all the ones from the community site
>>98324299Those Titans size differences are massive.
>>98326172yes. that was talked up above:>98314337>nu titans being huge is a combination of #1 their size increasing in lore, #2 the scale of the game creeping up, #3 titan models actually being made in the same scale as infantry and tanksits multiplicative scale creep- in lore, AT 1988 says warlord is 80 feet (24.5m). AT 2018 says warlord is 32.5m. +30%(and most GW writers have no idea how big a titan is even supposed to be)- original warlord is 65mm tall (1:375 based on old lore, ~5mm scale)- new warlord is 135mm tall (1:240 based on lore, ~7mm scale) +50%didnt happen all at once. lore titan size kept changing to keep with rule of cool descriptions and art (room for 3 crew in the head, towering over x, whole building on its back, you can walk down the gun barrels, etc). plus the epic scale went from 5mm to 8mm over editions but titans didnt keep up.
>>98326282Weird. But i guess you could say it is more a miniature representation like Battlefleet Gothic. And the bases are the sphere where you can hit or interact with the construct.
>>98276253Are there good options for RPG/Wargame focused learning of blender. I tried to learn a little but they went on about donuts for ages.>>98276215I just search for 6 or 8mm figs and some 15mm and use the scale tool?I play Epic Armageddon, its a good time.
>>98298956It really doesn't matter. Lots of little nids looks cool. Each unit is a base, it doesn't matter if its 3 or 7 (or 20) on it.
>>98326282Pic rel absolutely threw me for so long when I first saw the Epic models back in the stone age, as a space marine was almost as big as a Warlord's entire head, apparently. Took me a long time to consider they were at different scales to each other.
>>98327903Although there is this too, from Codex Titanicus.
I want to play games of Imperial Titans vs Orks or other Xeno God-Engines. What PDFs/scanned documents and templates do I need to play Titan Legions, since this is the game that focuses on that sort of battle?
>>98327990the best version of that is the one maintained by Net Epic Gold / Epicenter. it's in the OP.
>>98328457Ok. So what do I need to play Titan Legions? I don't want to play Net Epic.
>>98329754it's the same thing. that titan legions game in the piccy is the second half of Space Marine & Titan Legions, which together make up Epic's 2nd edition. each one was originally a box set fully playable on its own but compatible with the other.>wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Titan_Legions_(game)NetEpic IS 2nd edition, it's the same game. from the OP>Rules: netepic.org/core-rules/>Lists: netepic.org/army-books/that's the game. if you just want to play it with titan cards only, then you're playing "titan legions". the xenos titan cards are in their respective army book pdfs.
>>98329754>>98327990did they ever add other xenos to titans after the fact?like it had titans for orks and eldar. but didint get full titans for tau, necrons or squats or nids
>>98333781>titans for tauGay.
>>98333781Not really.Also dont forget Squats might not have titans but have mountain sized supertanks and tyranids have their bio-titans.
>>98279176The last time they did Epic in a big way it was a hex-and-counter game without the hexes. Seriously one of my most disappointing birthday gifts in terms of how much I was looking forward to it.
>>98275671My local group is starting epic recently.Im starting to painting my necron army and i looked at the rules and stats for my friends army, Eldar and Space Marines.Necron seems weak in terms of firepower and general stats, am i missing something?how you play Necron?
>>98338812Nice Pylon. Did Necron ever got models from GW?
>>98339456no. crons were created after epic40k just like tau. (and tau only got models bc forgeworld did them as a promo for taros campaign) older necron armies were a lot of proxies and scratch-built shit.
>>98338812necrons arent weak just weird.which army list are you planning to use?>>98338812>>98339456not really. you can always look at>miniwars.co.uk/epic-40k/miniatures/necrons/necron-warriors/if you're trying to find info on GW lines and ideas for proxies for missing shittheres a bunch of companies that make scifi robots at 6mm so decent options for cron infantry. for bigger stuff you can print (whic is what I assume the linked obelisk is) but a lot of players also kitbash from 28mm. necron bitz are ripe for epic bashing. pic related is a nice looking example of a bash.
>>98339655Wow, that's a cool looking necron army!i was looking at thr Sautek army list Necrons: Sautekh Legion ## Formations [1175 pts]2 x Ghost Ark Phalanx [275 pts]: LordImmortal Phalanx [350 pts]: Overlord [75 pts]• 1x 6x ImmortalsImmortal Phalanx [275 pts]: Lord• 1x 6x ImmortalsEques Maniple [300 pts]:• 4x Destroyer• 2x Heavy DestroyerIudicium Maniple [250 pts]:• 5x Doomsday Ark2 x 4 Monolith Maniple [325 pts]:Doom Scythes [225 pts]:• 2x Doom Scythe [100 pts]2 x Pylon [200 pts]A shooting focused list, with immortals ready to exit from the monolits, thats the idea.I still need to play my 1st game, so i don't know if the list lacks portals, it will suffer the absence of big Was Engines, its too much shooting ecc.
>>98339745seems fine, idk. you're pretty fast and hard hitting.looks like you're a little short on points? I only get like 2700. sautekh is on armyforge if you want to build it there.wouldnt hurt to add a formation to hunt arty. flayed ones, wraiths, etc.
>>98339805Thank you for the suggestion, i will check it
>>98339655Oh shit that looks good actually. Why don't people run gold/lapis necrons more often?
>>98339910shit with more provenance is always gonna be more popular.plus in the case of the necrons vs newcrons schism, typically only newcrons would have bright/colorful schemes.
>>98339600Ok. I remembered that some Tau units for Epic existed. >>98339655>info on GW lines and ideas for proxiesThats great. Thanks.
Are there any canon depictions of how Barans look like ?
>>98340805not much. they were introduced in epic swordwind. infantry are related to kriegers with long coats and gas masks. there were a couple limited minis for their support squads and towed guns.really tho they're just there to be rules for any PDF or poorly supplied defensive army. works for non-demon traitor planet armored too.
>>98340501>remembered that some Tau units for Epic existedGW main never made any. there was a small line made by forgeworld, which are very rare now. there was an epic Armageddon list for Tau included in Imperial Armor 3: Taros Campaign (which is also when they added the other tau forgeworld shit for 40k like the manta)
>>98343353I meant that i saw them but not lnowing who produced them.Besides Forgeworld is GW, so i dont see a problem to pointing out which subdivision made them. At least they are moreofficial than third party. a big difference
>>98343499Technically, there were the new AI planes (albeit larger scale of course) and I'm fairly certain there was a Tau 'terrain' kit as well (read: AA sites and ground target markers) alongside them which - the Imperials and orks, at least - don't look like they'd be too out of place on the old scale if you were desperate enough to trawl the usual places, but this is being above and beyond "ackshully", I'll confess.For what it's worth, the new AI stuff was a joy to put together and paint, though I do have a weakness for tiny planes going back to my Airfix days (though yes, obviously not as intricate as those).
>>98338812Please read your special rules, all of them>marine statline even on basic troops>units regenerate>instead of routing they teleport into reserves where you can regenerate them>4++ ward on every tank. Thats the shit Eldar get on TITANSThey are good, but you are comparing them to two of the most elite armies in the game.What you might struggle with is assaults, as their Close Combat is overall pretty poor, Marines can wreck them with Scouts and Eldar WILL wreck them in melee, they are pretty much the most close range focused army.
>>98343499>moreofficial than third party. a big differencea big difference in 2008 maybe, if you were in a gw store. means fuck all now, except that you'll pay out the ass for them because you're competing with the most obsessive class of collectors.
>>98344992You mean buying old models is expensive?
>>98347889>You mean buying old models is expensive?that depends on the models. you can still find old space marine era plastics for cheap sometimes, because GW made trillions of them. and metal armies last forever getting endlessly stripped and repainted so anything heavily produced in metal tends to stay reasonable. supply and demand.but a limited run resin faction that was know ever for sale from FW for a year or two, and never had any corresponding units in the main retail line? yeah that's rare as shit.
How big should bunkers be?Due to an unfortunate accident I have a bunch of keyboard keycaps I thought about turning into terrain but there is no way three units can fit inside of that.
>>98349769I made mine 40x40mm inside so they could fit stick bases. and trenches 20mm wide
>>98349992Yeah that does sound reasonable.I need to find another use for these keycaps then.
How does one transport epic armies?
>>98354843In a transport case.
>>98355190Yeah but which kind? Foam, magnetic? Any other kind? If magnetic, how do I transport the vehicles which don't have bases?
>>98355199>>98355190Sorry if I'm retarded btw, I've never done anything with epic minis before
>>98355199>>98355214Sorry, i wanted to be funny.
>>98355214>>98355199magnet bases work well for most infantry and vehicles because most of them are short and light. even modest magnets can keep them pretty secure. for vehicles just stick a magnet on the bottom. you mostly only need foam for bigger shit like aircraft and titans, assuming you field those.
>>98355572T'was funny I'll give you that>>98356270Thanks anon, much appreciated. Related but should I put my vehicles on bases to put magnets underneath? Or should I not bother?
>>98356924>>98355572It is a classic gag!
>>98356924whatever you think looks good. some anons base vehicles all the time, and some only if it needs a base to stand up. baseless doesn't stop you from sticking a magnet to the bottom of the hull.
>>98358011>baseless doesn't stop you from sticking a magnet to the bottom of the hull.While true, all my vehicles have different distances from the hull to any surface the vehicle would be placed on, so having consistency would be nice. I'm going to base my vehicles then, tyvm
>>98358033a trick for this (different hull heights/shapes) is to just use basing putty or greenstuff as filler under the middle of the hull to make sure the magnet touches flush with ground no matter how deep the tracks.you wont be able to see it at all on an epic model anyway.>>98335343>>98333781forgeworld did eventually give tau sorta-titans but they're only implemented in a couple development tau lists.> Riptide: knight equivalent (little smaller, could be a very big AV or DC2)> Stormsurge: heavy knight (acastus or porph) equivalent> Supremacy: Warhound equivalentdont have models for them, but at that point you can just kitbash crisis suit parts
>>98362899>a trick for this (different hull heights/shapes) is to just use basing putty or greenstuff as filler under the middle of the hull to make sure the magnet touches flush with ground no matter how deep the tracks.>you wont be able to see it at all on an epic model anyway.Holy shit this is genius. Too bad i despise greenstuff cuz I suck at it. I might still go with bases cuz I like the idea of them being on bases
>>98367324bases can be good if done right. gives room to have ground torn up by tracks and infantry milling around near the AV. or have the AVs running over shit. lots of cool options.>suck at greenstuffjust takes practice, clean tools, and using something oil-based to stop it from sticking (NOT water)
>>98367499>gives room to have ground torn up by tracks and infantry milling around near the AV. or have the AVs running over shit. lots of cool options.Should I make their bases somewhat big like that? I got 30x30mm square bases, I was gonna buy some 25x25mms for the leman russes but maybe I could use the 30x30mms so I could add barbed wire or some shit. IDK, thoughts?
I've been told before that darker and less vibrant colors aren't good picks for color schemes for epic scale stuff, but what about Angels of Absolution? Was originally gonna do DAngels but they're dark green and any bike/landspeeders are black, so wouldn't pop as much
>>98367823pick a base color that contrasts.like piccy are a pretty dark scheme, but anon put them on a bright/light base so you can still see them easily.>>98367518these tanks also have base decoration
>>98368461>That smashed carThats great.
>>98367823>dark angels color schemes being too dark for epicanother trick when figuring out your scheme is to go look at how things were painted originally, before the post-blanchitsu "douse everything in black ink" era. back when studio painters werent afraid of color.pic is 2nd ed dark angels official scheme, and it would absolutely work fine for epic. you can have the dark colors in there you just need the contrasts to balance it out.
>>98289656I'd say the scale is more relevant to the topic. 2-10mm gaming with the intention of fielding multiple companies to brigades depending on scale of the models and game rules instead of 15mm+ which tends to be from a company up to a team of 4 dudes.
>>98317712Thanks. You saved me from a half-priced mistake.
>>98369084>>98368461Thanks anons, very inspiring, fills my heart with determination to keep going at it :D
I know someone earlier asked which is the most common edition, but which is the most fun? Balance aside as I don't really give a fuck, is 2E or Armageddon more *fun*? I've seen the armies and the way to build armies for both and while 2E or Epic Space Marine seems way more fun and ""SOVFVL""" in that regard, IDK how each plays. Anyone willing to pitch in their two cents?
>>98371233You'll never get agreement on this. in one sense it's good, because they're all "fun". but which edition is best is down to preference.1st/2nd if you love crunch more than anything 3rd if you love abstractness more than anything4th if you like a balance5th if you like 2nd but you work for GW
>>98371464Tempted to go with 2nd but worried that I'll end up shooting myself in the foot by picking the least played edition. Then again, I'm the one spearheading this endeavor at my LGS... so idk
>>98371836the least played edition is 3rd. by a fair amount.by popularity they'd be ranked1) epic armageddon / 4th2) legions imperialis3) titanicus 20184) epic gold / 2nd5) epic armageddon variants (EA HH, EA Ragnarok, etc, EA SW, etc)(huge fucking power gap)6) epic 40,000 / 3rdif you're priority is finding opponents getting games, its basically down to LI/AT if you're mainly gaming in official GW stores, and EA anywhere else.
>>983718362nd is basically identical base rules to legions imperialis for what that's worth. like to the point you could just take army stats from one and play them in the other with no changes. the biggest difference is LIgma had all the meaty titan rules stripped out so it wouldn't compete with Titanicus. 2nd just has everything in one game. and more armies / units obviously, since it's not just HH.
>>98373766>2nd is basically identical base rules to legions imperialis for what that's worth.Oh shit this might be a good selling point since all the prospective players at my LGS already play LI
>>98275671I've acquired beach sand and I want to remove the grains that will look to big for 6mm scale from everything else. What should I use for this? I don't want some of my batch going to waste.Is 6mm static grass worth it or is there a way to easily make my own that works?>>98368461Is that 3D printed or forumware?
>>98275671We made our own! With blackjack! And hookers! (And bases with wheels displaying remaining HP)
>>98379575Thats a lot of crisis suits.I mean there is nothing wrong with it and it might work well but I would still grab some infantry (even if its just pathfinders) to camp objectives or sit in bunkers.
>>98383052The game will be a lot less flexible than standard WH40K, and the guy who 3D-modeled them and printed them also works on the ruleset. So I literally got every army-building option.Finally, this was partial. First picture was the suits because I like those the most. Not a big Kroot fan.
>>98383052there is that tau tank list floating around. might be worth a look.
