So here's a question. Have you ever had a player character in one of your stories hit with a celestial audit for what they did?
For example, should a sidereal knowingly stand by and allowed two superweapons to collide resulting in the collapse of a nascent shadowland into essentially a sort of endless maelstrom that leads down into Malfeas.
While the Sidereal didn't know this could have happened it's grounds for the celestial lions to grab them if they don't immediately return and report what the hell happened. And that's before getting a probably pissed off god of the ocean involved.

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>>98403129
>So here's a question. Have you ever had a player character in one of your stories hit with a celestial audit for what they did?
Yes. I was playing fast and loose with Yu Shan's systems and didn't handle it properly, so what actually happened was their convention chair (on the other side of the Bronze/Gold divide) started a criminal audit into the Sidereal player and then had it suspended pending further evidence before bringing in the PCs for questioning. It was there as a pressure tactic to get the PCs to spill on what the fuck they'd been doing because it was some shit and I wanted to highlight how far off the rails they'd been taking it. That part was debatably doable at least. The way I mishandled it was I had the shakedown include the non-Sidereal PCs and had open questioning happen in front of way too many people because I wanted to use it as a vehicle to put the players in contact with people in the Convention. Between character bloat and random glup shittos cross-talking against each other, in the end since there were 6+ Sidereals in the room I devolved the whole thing into Great Curse taco cart style Sidereal factional infighting and arguments, but it meant that I didn't accomplish my aims, and the players didn't get much out of it beyond seeing behind the scenes of their Sidereal handler to his bosses being uselessly at odds.

The audit was dismissed because the non-Sidereal side of the party basically spilled the beans on everything to the point where it was hard to take them seriously as corrupt forces cooperating with otherworldly (mostly Infernal) threats to the Direction as had been suspected.

>For example...
Yeah, absolutely it's fine to grab them. Someone from the Division would grab them to explain themselves first, before the audit went through, but other than that completely fine to go ahead. Canonically a Sidereal was recently executed for genociding a city and that's not far off.

Back in the day (pre-3E release to around Arms of the Chosen release I think) I kept up with the game but then eventually fell of that train. I see they finally released most splats but what's the state of the game? How are Lunars and Sidereals, did any sort of essential homebrew or houserules emerge, is it just fine with minimal tinkering? I randomly remembered about Exalted 3E and kinda feel like diving into it again but I'm curious what the current sentiment is.

Where do I find the stats for the Tyrant Lizards and similar creatures?

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>>98404842
Purging Holdorke did a world of good. While Dragonblooded was shit (for reasons I can elaborate on if you want), Lunars and Sidereals were a significant step up from their A-game. Sidereals especially feel great to play and SMA are buffed so much that no sane Sidereal would fine a reason not to take it if they're taking any reasonable dip into combat.

Lunars are also fairly powerful, as you can go into a Legendary Size beastie at Essence 1 with relatively modest investment. In terms of brokeness there's only one real combo involving picking an Ape and join battle charms, but compared to the shit Solars pull off its relatively tame.

Abyssals are pretty much just a painted black copy paste of Solars sadly. I saw this coming myself, WW/OPP treat the very idea of making corebook errata taboo. The Ex3 KS buckbroke them utterly, all the way to the point where Vance willingly wanted to make a few small pieces of errata and OPP/WW said no (which was using natural STR for accuracy/parry). If OPP/WW said no over this I dunno WTF people were expecting for Abyssals.

Haven't read Alchemicals yet, busy with IRL.

Infernals are very different from Ex2 but I think they pulled them off. Many of the shintai's you could make from Ex2 you can make in Ex3, while hell itself has some brand new fluff, including new Infernal fluff that isn't absolute dogshit. People bitch about the lack of essence based charms, bu most don't seem to care.

The only thing that Ex3 does which pisses me off is scattering the fluff. The compass books in Ex2 were orderly. Trying to find a specific locale in Ex3 may have you diving into a half dozen books to find the fucking place.

>>98404842
I don't know if there really is a "current sentiment". That is, some people really like 3E and some really don't. /exg/ is mostly though not entirely in the "really not like it" camp, and that'll obviously affect the answers you get here. My personal view is that the splats have been becoming better since the core, but the core's approach of having a whole fuckload of small, fiddly Charms hampers the whole line. Lunars are eh, not terrible, not great. Sidereals, based on just reading them and without having had a chance to actually see them in play, seem pretty good, at least as good as that "tons of small Charms" paradigm allows for. Infernals have a Kickstarter manuscript out, and they're actually pretty cool. Lorewise, it's a mixed bag. Overly cautious, sanitized, careful not to offend, but also unwilling to make a clean break from the previous editions, it kind of half-assedly can't make up its mind about whether to distance itself from 2E or not. Devs being 2E fans who are kind of embarrassed about it but who still, ultimately, loved that edition definitely shows. As I said, it's a mixed bag, not terrible, though. I wouldn't even say that the lore's worse than 1E or 2E, just more cautious, less edgy, less ambitious but also with fewer real stinkers there. The primary setting book, Across the Eight Directions, is IMO about 50% bland nothing and 50% actually quite good.

>>98405143
>>98405176
Ok, "mixed bag but overall decent" is better than I feared, honestly. Really glad Sidereals turned out well, they were always conceptually my favourite.

>While Dragonblooded was shit (for reasons I can elaborate on if you want)
Sure, go ahead. DBs were always somewhat meh to me but I'm just curious what happened.

>Vance willingly wanted to make a few small pieces of errata and OPP/WW said no (which was using natural STR for accuracy/parry)
Was that all or did he have other things he wanted to fix?

>>98405375
>Sure, go ahead. DBs were always somewhat meh to me but I'm just curious what happened.

NTA, but they changed the lore on how they manifest their exaltation, but it is not written well enough to come across as something besides the devs going, "FOR THE LOVE OF GOD STOP ASKING ABOUT BREEDING CAMPS! WE GET IT!" or something along those lines.

Any resources for easily creating NPCs?

So has anyone looked at Alchemicals and Infernals in depth ruleswise? Are they playable, or is 3E doomed to be the Siddy and Doggy Edition?

>>98405502
Lunar were deemed obsolete a while ago, when it turned out some new niches weren't new or "lunar niche"; even the "mixing of MAs with native charms" lost its luster when the devs made sure to give it to other splats because otherwise Lunars would be *gasp* relevant.

>>98405487
The 1e ST Book has templates

Has there been a probably fanmade Solars rework to bring them in line with the more polished crunch of later releases?

>>98405543
I m they don't have to be GOOD, just playable.

>>98406330
Anon, no one plays Exalted. Maaaybe Essence or ExWod.

>>98406309
No, the closest thing is shit like ExWoD or Godbound

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Vicissitude should have better rules.

>>98406580
Wrong thread but agree.

>>98406580
It, and the other post core disciplines, have problems because of npc facing design; it took until 20DA to fix serpentis; a solution to fix Vicissitude would be to create a proper fleshcrafting subsystem.

>>98402657
Most times I mess with exalted mechanics things do tend to do so heavily. To the point where NPC's in the game come across as... surprisingly weak. Lots of neat little interactions.

>>98406309
Yes, Sandact's rewrite.

>>98406688
That's what I get posting drunk.

>>98406580
>>98406688
Actually, were 2e's necrotech rules good enough to be worth stripping out and porting around (whether into WoD or 3e/Essence idc)? I never actually used them or did more than glance over them myself, since 2e Abyssals themselves were pretty uninteresting and the only group likely to use necrotech.

>>98406933
IIRC Necrotech was one of those undercooked rules juts like Vicissitude but I'm not that familiar with 2e.

Wholesome thought I just had after reading the Scroll of Limbs Google Doc, but not only do the Second Circle Souls of Gnosis, Fetich Soul of Gaia fulfill their Occult Functions in accordance to the rules of Soul Heirachy...but they're also modeled on her friends among the Celestial Incarna.
>Their Expressive Soul is based on Sol Invictus.
>Their Reflective Soul is based on Luna.
>Their Warden Soul is based on Mars.
>Their Messenger Soul is based on Mercury
>Their Wisdom Soul is based on Jupiter.
>Their Indulgent Soul is based on Venus.
>Their Defining Soul is based on Saturn

>>98404842
>state of the game
A lot of content is gated behind empty kickstarter/backerkit promises that have dragged out entire splatbooks by years. The corebook has severe problems like ludonarrative Solar Charms that are other completely busted (Socialise "persona" Charms that literally give you free extra character sheets) or comically worthless (Melee Charm that gives you +1 parry against Creatures of Darkness, E5 Investigation Charm that just gives you a clue). Some of the mechanics are outright questionable, like mounted combat and being a large animal providing unreasonable amounts of defence without very specific counters, or falling damage being phrased in such a way it's hard to beat for most PDs. The worst instances of this are mostly in the corebook but the developers' unwillingness to errata it mean they stain the entire line.

The new developers replacing Holdenmorke have tried to address a lot of this, but they have their own problems. The writing quality is objectively worse than previous editions. There is a strong sentiment I can best describe as being like HR looking over everyone's shoulders to, for example, completely rewrite several Silver Pact elders to be misunderstood dindus (despite inanely preserving Raksi's cannibalism, just having her eat "youths" instead of babies as some kind of 5D chess shit test) and making sure the Lover isn't TOO horny. Many changes to the setting like progenitive Essence and gods going from scorning to being overawed by Sidereals feel completely unnatural and more there as kneejerk reactions to fix perceived flaws in previous editions. It is very, very noticeable which splats the writers like the most (Sidereals and Infernals) because they have better fluff than all the others. It is also comical to see how mechanics improve with every edition until, as I predicted, Infernals make Solars look tragic if you ignore the Solar Charms so broken no sane game would use them.

1/2

>>98404842
>>98407480
If it's not clear, I despise this edition because in many ways it comes across as being served a shit sandwich and told to thank the waiter for the privilege. NPCs statblocks are literally unfinished and after years there is no Roll of Glorious Divinity-alike for making custom spirit Charms. The Exigents book's advice for custom Charms is not just laughable but functionally nonexistent, and the book as a whole comes across more like the devs trying to shill their OCs while encouraging you to manufacture your own than create a functional splat that actually fits into the game. Pillars of Creation utterly fails at it's purpose. Wyld Hunts in 3e are so poorly explained and lacking in the infrastructure described previously that fundamentally anything can be a Wyld Hunt as long as it has enough "fuck Anathema" energy. Evocations somehow have even less guidance than Exigent Charms and not only vastly exceed most Charms in stated capabilities (and I'm not just talking about the warstrider ones) but sometimes confer permanent buffs onto Charms (!). Despite this, having to manually unlock another charmset to fully utilise an artifact is clunky as fuck for games, and the devs quickly realised this since soon after they started introducing Charms that let Solaroids instantly unlock them. The corebook can't agree with itself on whether Dragonblooded can be fought in mass combat or not.

HAVING SAID THAT, there are a few things I will praise the edition for: Sorcerous workings and Shaping rituals which are cool and let sorcery do shit other than high fantasy/Final Fantasy localised gimmicks, more accessibility and flavour to interacting with Yu-Shan in any way other than dodging celestial lion dogpiles (even if I think it goes too far in some areas), a social system that for all it's flaws at least tries to encourage interaction that isn't brute forced by Charm mind control, and statted Deathlords that aren't "oops all Solars and Abyssal Charms!".

2/3

>>98407480
>>98407493
Hi Sandact. How's your hospital vacation treating you?

>>98404842
I have two more things to say I was running out of room for. First, the edition loves to render a lot of things as narrative abstractions not happening in-universe: From tracking Initiative as a temporary resource in combat while splitting combat between Withering (narratively unimportant, like the play-fighting swordplay in movies) and Decisive (actually tearing someone's throat out), Craft XP (a system of points and dedicated XP representing you coming up with ideas and implementing them as projects. Well, most of the time), Eclipse Charms (the devs want to stop people from collecting dozens of Principles of Motion but also want to maintain power copying so the Eclipse anima and similar powers can only replicate "approved" Charms), Introducing a Fact (which apart from one unique application is in-universe the character being really smart and noticing everyone else was too stupid to even though out of universe it's the player dictating limited terms to the ST) and retroactive Charm effects (MOST of which are the Exalt being clever enough to prepare something beforehand).

I find all of this to be hella mad gay and lame.

Secondly, as someone who was expected Infernals to be a trash fire, I was deeply relieved that they were NOT at all like what prior content and discourse hinted and are in fact easily the most fun and overall well-managed splat released in the line thus far. They lost Devil-Tiger wank. I was surprised by how competitive the replacement wank was, even though a lot of it comes down to the writers really wanting to recycle 2e Charms wholesale. At the very least, Infernals can externalise inner worlds and manifest 3CDs before hitting E5, and while I'm disappointed point build shintais from the preview weren't implemented they do get a modular final form called a Devil-Body that while comparatively modest by, say, Lords of Creation standards is far and away the most personal power a PC is allowed to wield in 3e for the duration it's up.

3/3

>>98407501
Not Sandact. Hope he gets better.

>>98405502
I've looked at both. Alchemicals was very unmemorable and my main takeaway was amusement at how little the devs dared change about them after getting on their high horse with Lunars and Dragonblooded, and vaguely noting more detailed conflict between the Eight Nations. As I vaguely remember, if you ignore the mechanical theming Alchemicals are still better Lunars than Lunars.

As I said in the other post, Infernals seriously won me over after my misgivings. There is a Charm to do VEE but for entire nations. There is a Charm to be metaphysically larger than everyone and everything. There are several Charms that reward you for not noticing attacks, culminating in a nonstandard PD powered by pure solipsism. Principle-Invoking Onslaught remains based, and it's not even the only remote grapple Charm in the book. There is a Ride Charm so powerful it has tacit higher order Feat of Strength benchmarks. There is a fucking MARDUKTH Charm for some reason.

There are a few issues. The "run fast" Charm is underwhelming, but according to the devs on the fancord at least some of them like a certain E4 Melee Charm are definitely getting revised. There is very little on Infernals as a society. They let Kimbery girlboss a little more to make her relevant after the Reclamation stopped being a thing, and I still prefer decadence over the Sifu-style self-righteous vengeance angle even if it's still vastly better than the initial Infernal SJWs take.

Even with deliberate balancing in some cases like Melee being reliant on a far more aggressive, mobile playstyle instead of being able to parry everything forever, the charmset still makes the other two Solaroids look sad by comparison. Especially Thrown, jesus Thrown is sexy.

>>98405375
>DB's
So DB's was being planned while Holdorke was still there, including the god-only-knows-what revision of Arms. Holdorke tried to play chicken with Rich and god fucking bodied. Vance was in the middle of his bar exam, but he was forced to look at the fresh roadkill of Holdorke and was given a deadline. Not an Ex3 corebook deadline, but actual deadline. During this time he cleaned up both Arms and the DB corebook.

The problem is that the DB corebook's mechanics are shit. Vance literally did not have the time to go back and make better sense of loose notes left behind from Holdorke. To make matters worse, some of Holden's friends who were writing material told Rich to fuck off and kept their material, so Vance and Minton (the latter the fluff dev) were now throwing things at the wall while Rich watched from the perch with a shotgun in hand.

I won't lie, Dragonblooded are shit. Hell, the Exigents charm book which contains charm homebrew rules, it explictly says *not* to use Solar or DB charms due to some flowerly language, but we know the real reason is because they're shit.

>other errata
We don't know. We know Vance has said he doesn't want to errata the entire Ex3 core, as the team nearly died doing that (and look at what people like Sandact had to do to unfuck it). But he wanted some quick low hanging fruit wins, but the problem is that Rich is utterly terrified of backers literal gold-plated books having errata. The only corebook errata we have is in Arms for a few Craft charms because the evocation system in the release version is completely different than the one mentioned (the leak version).

>>98405453
The breeding camps thing was something they decided on during the Holdorke days and kept.

>>98404925
Tyrant Lizards at least are listed on p. 573 of the corebook, which has a fair number of other NPCs. Others can be found in Hundred Devils Night Parade and Adversaries of the Righteous, neither of which have SHIT on Creatures of the Wyld.

>>98405143
>Many of the shintai's you could make from Ex2 you can make in Ex3,
At least on their own and when translated to 3e, they're actually relatively modest, low-tier Devil-Bodies.

>>98407511
>I have two more things to say I was running out of room for. First, the edition loves to render a lot of things as narrative abstractions not happening in-universe: From tracking Initiative as a temporary resource in combat while splitting combat between Withering (narratively unimportant, like the play-fighting swordplay in movies) and Decisive (actually tearing someone's throat out), Craft XP (a system of points and dedicated XP representing you coming up with ideas and implementing them as projects. Well, most of the time), Eclipse Charms (the devs want to stop people from collecting dozens of Principles of Motion but also want to maintain power copying so the Eclipse anima and similar powers can only replicate "approved" Charms), Introducing a Fact (which apart from one unique application is in-universe the character being really smart and noticing everyone else was too stupid to even though out of universe it's the player dictating limited terms to the ST) and retroactive Charm effects (MOST of which are the Exalt being clever enough to prepare something beforehand).
>I find all of this to be hella mad gay and lame.
Well, how would YOU do all of the above instead?

>>98407535
Re: Dragonblooded, have you, or anyone in this thread for that matter, read both the official release and A Clutch of Dragons and compared them? Which one would you advise people use if you had to pick one instead of drawing from both piecemeal?

>>98407551
Mainly, I wouldn't. I ain't Sandact and I'm not making a whole gaming system over my weekened. But, off the top of my head:

>Damage is damage, don't fuck around with Withering/Decisive or incentivise players to exchange rocket tag for somthing the devs have admitted has made statting NPCs even harder than before
>Keep Craft simple, stupid. No points. No designated XP. Just a series of rolls. We can argue how complex those rolls are or whether narrative events should be allowed to influence them, but they should just be ROLLS and not having to fucking reallocate your gold points for your silver points because you have enough of one to make 100 hammers but not 1 3-dot artifact because your Twilight is autistic
>Just let everyone who can copy, copy everything they meet the criteria for. Treat Principle of Motion-stacking like the "don't rape fellow players" or "this edition, sorcery and ONLY sorcery can't time travel, resurrect the dead or confer perfect immortality" rules: A sidebar advising players not to ruin everyone else's fun with the tacit understanding that individual gaming groups' fun may vary
>Don't Introduce a Fact
>Only Exalts that actually fuck with time for whatever reason get retroactive effects, and of course PDs work on them

Basically, I think Holden had the right idea with the INITIAL draft of ExWoD barring a few dumb subsystems and before he started getting cocky and retarded with the supplements for him. And the more I look at it, the more I like Demon the Descent as a short, punchy way to depict powerful but localised abilities.

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>>98407501
>Hi Sandact. How's your hospital vacation treating you?
I'd call it more of a midlife crisis. You don't start a 1000x science run of Factorio unless you're in something like one or you're a youtuber.

> the developers' unwillingness to errata it mean they stain the entire line.
Bro they want to make some errata, but Rich/Monica told them no, the corebook is gospel and to deal with it. I can really feel this when they're writing new shit. Infernals blow Solars out of the water so hard its not even funny.

>in what way do they blow Solars out of the water
Yes.

But this is for mundane easy shit like "STR applies to attack/defense". Even if they wanted to errata the corebook I'm sure the answer would be the same.

Also

>after years there is no Roll of Glorious Divinity-alike for making custom spirit Charms

Nevermind the gods. We barely have shit for Raksha. How the hell can people make one of the most common enemies in the entire game (FAR more likely to encounter than other exalts) when we have fuckall rules on them.

>I'm not making a whole gaming system over my weekened
Pussy.

>>98407526
Hm, Siddy and Yozibotherer Edition then.Still sounds neat, mayb i will give 3E a try.

>>98407572
>We barely have shit for Raksha
As much as you are my brother in seething against 3e, let me be honest: When I saw 3e core, I completely gave up on ever seeing anything for Raksha that isn't their random jumble of vaguely themed malarky they churn out for every NPC deliberately undertuned for the most retarded players possible to deal with as long as someone explains to them what a Shaping defence is. Because 3e is a retarded edition written by retards, for retards. And while it was also a flawed product in different ways, I think the sheer girth of Graceful Wicked Masques completely demoralised the retards working on the game from EVER touching Raksha.

>Pussy
Maybe if 3e wanted to see homebrew from me, it should've put out better products to hook my interest like the plethora of homebrew for 2e.

>Yes
I would've said that being able to set a guy on fire in the middle of a swordfight or light up the battlefield in a way that doesn't hurt you or demons is a hilarious skillcheck against overly specialised close quarters combatants given how environmental damage just kind of ignores soak/hardness, but fair.

So how long til 4E after the Infrnals drop?

>>98407572
>1000x science run of Factorio
You're not nearly as autistic as I thought. I feel disappointed and cheated.

>>98407564
The finished version of ExWoD is still the best way to play Exalted. Like the only way to get people to a table for me. And we all feel so so about Wod.

>>98407572
>Infernals blow Soalrs out of the water so hard its not even funny
Once, a long time ago, I remember a Siderealfag here complaining Sidereals were too fucking weak. I wanted to tell that man Sidereal Charms were as esoteric and reality-fucky as 3e allowed them to be. That the book pointedly presented Sids with the nastiest supernatural diseases in the line for Citrine Poxes to smack fools with. That One Direction is still doing what it does. But my words fell on death ears.

I kind of feel this way about people complaining Infernal Melee can't parry as good as Solar Melee. Yes, Solar Melee is for all it's flaws the most economically straightforward way to kill things in 3e, as it should be. Yes, the style of swordplay used by Hell's champions is inherently volatile, high-rish high-reward, and destructive. As it should be. But also, Violence Begets Violence exists. So does Pathetic Distraction Rebuke and Unbroken Blade Conviction. Yes, the Infernal Melee Withering damage and Defend Other games sucks! Do you know WHY it sucks? Because Infernal Melee's philosophy isn't meant to waste time with such pussy shit, it's meant to jack up JB with Joy In Violence Approach or Offal Feast Anticipation or Twisting Shadow Veil then open with a jump attack with Argument From the Peak for that one autosux before you start slinging out Decisives like a Chad!

Fuck that pussy "gotta toy with this Shikari a little to build up Initiative or I'm FINISHED!" bullshit. Hesitation is death.

>>98407602
Completely understandable, I just find it frustrating Holden put in Prayer-Eating then made it deliberately shitty and admitted it's there solely because his Kindred of the East autism commanded him to do so. Or that he threw in the Anathema system, which is very cool, and set it up in a way to tempt you into busting your balls for the forbidden power of Rank 10 Disciplines.

>>98407597
I think we still have Getimians, which they are determined to make a thing. I also think everyone involved around so exhausted they would rather take the backer money and run than do this whole song and dance for another 20 years when 4e is finally ready to start pre-development on Dragonblooded('s first draft)

>>98407572
>STR applies to attack/defense
Don't Abyssals have this too?
...shouldn't Lunars??

>>98407615
Guess we'll know when the backer campaigns slow down.

>>98407480
>(despite inanely preserving Raksi's cannibalism, just having her eat "youths" instead of babies as some kind of 5D chess shit test)
I think you're confusing discussions on /exg/ with things actually in the books.

>gods going from scorning to being overawed by Sidereals feel completely unnatural
Eh, I think gods' atttitudes to Sidereals feel more natural and sensible now than they used to.

>>98407551
>Well, how would YOU do all of the above instead?
I would go for a full rework / new edition of Exalted. I would start from 2e as a base, personally. The battlewheel might anger long-time fans but you have to understand that's because of poorly executed mechanics that aren't immediately apparent. To new players it's so awesome it actively forgives sins elsewhere in the system. Perfects needed to be nerfed in a way that meant combat wouldn't default to them, but combat defaulting to grinding perfect defenses was a fail-state of the combat system in the first place, and the problem wasn't so much perfects existing or being able to use them repeatedly as everything else being worse. Perfects caught the failing gamestate out of freefall but the game failed so easily it's 90% of what a lot of people experienced, because otherwise it's just true kite+rocket tag with no defensive plays. Once per scene limits on PDs in 3e/Essence are a shortsighted hack, not a fix, and the only reason they were vaguely useful in 3e/Essence was because (in 3e) the PDs themselves were made worse or (in Essence) the rest of the combat system was made much more robust.

If I was just hacking at 3e and trying to fix combat I'd make everyone attack like battlegroups, JBing for initiative and doing initiative damage that progresses to decisive in crash, and I'd even say AoE'ing everyone in your own rangeband every attack is kind of based too. Decisive-only charms work only when attacking opponents in crash, withering-only charms work only when attacking opponents who aren't.

Introduce a Fact out. Eclipse charmshare out. Controversial opinion but I'm with Holden on this one, throw artifact crafting and Craft as an Ability out too - artifacts as wonders of a lost age is cool, and crafting should be all theory and technology and Lore and wisdom and artistic talent (mapped to Linguistics) where you go digging up grimoires and blueprints and ingredients and workshops, not rolling dice.

>>98407820
>I think you're confusing discussions on /exg/ with things actually in the books.
I read her intro text in the book and the explanation for her continued cannibalism of young persons of the non-baby persuasion. I remain utterly unimpressed by 3e's writing for Raksi. I have said this many times, but they should've just leaned into her being a psychotic piece of shit that just happens to have predictable enough habits to be worth doing business with.

>natural and sensible
I cannot disagree more. The gods are hedonistic, career-climbing conquerors of reality. They do not seem like the kind to have any respect for the Exalted that previous editions have consistently portrayed as them having no remorse for making fight their own war.

>>98407511
>From tracking Initiative as a temporary resource in combat while splitting combat between Withering (narratively unimportant, like the play-fighting swordplay in movies)
I think it would make more sense if it was meant to represent stuff like feints and controlling your opponents footing

>>98407981
Material on Raksi in Fangs at the Gate says that she feasts on raw flesh, wothout specifying whose flesh it is, that she "unnerves even her Lunar comrades" and is happy about it, that jer banquets offered to the other shana-ya include courses of huamn flesh - without specifying the age - and vivisection of Dragon-Blooded prisoners and other such lovely entertainment, and that at least once she offered a living child as a course in a feast but let the kid live when one of her adherents got angry about it. There's no specific mention of youth-eating there. There was, however, such a mention in 1E's Exalted: the Lunars, where beautiful youths were stated to be Raksi's favorite meals, and there was also a particularly dumb shitstorm of a discussion on one of these threads where one point of argument was "how young/old a person counts as a youth". You're almost certainly thinking of that 1E passage and the discussion about here rather than the 3E material.

>I cannot disagree more. The gods are hedonistic, career-climbing conquerors of reality. They do not seem like the kind to have any respect for the Exalted that previous editions have consistently portrayed as them having no remorse for making fight their own war.
Gods are, first of all, individuals, not a monolith, but beyond that, they're not, mostly, complete idiots. Sidereals are powerful, spooky, useful and backed by the Bureau of Destiny. There's plenty of reason for respect right there.

Now this feels more like threads I remember from years ago. Interesting posts to read though I can already see some people are so opinionated they probably don't even remember the books clearly ( like this anon >>98407535 , I quickly checked and the Exigent book has a rather embarrassing paragraph that tells you to avoid referencing Solar charms but explicitly recommends DB ones among others). All that said, is Essence any good if I want a less crunchy alternative that doesn't require me to read 1000+ pages of mechanics?

>>98407966
>I would start from 2e as a base, personally.
Aaaaaaand dropped.

>>98408840
>I quickly checked and the Exigent book has a rather embarrassing paragraph that tells you to avoid referencing Solar charms but explicitly recommends DB ones among others

I can tell you right now using DB charms as anything but a lower-floor basis only leads to disaster. It was a rushed product (as admitted by the devs) with enormous gaping holes that are areas the exalt are deliberately weak in, but glaring issues they need to work around, such as defense charms that rely on RNG or requiring you to be in aura to be worth a damn (which is more hoop jumping than Ex2 Infernals ever had to deal with).

If you want good Terrestrial power exalts, look at Sovereigns.

>Essence
It has its own problems entirely. Don't delude yourself into thinking its universally better than Ex3. It's the same as any other editions: Are the parts you like better than the parts that bother you?

A main problem with Essence is that many general charms lack modes for all exalts, but I think some fan options exist.

>>98409005
2e plays better once you buff natural soak, and nerf artifacts.

>>98409118
>nerf artifacts
Nigger, artifacts were barely a mechanical footnote before 3e.

>>98409134
Yes, but you start nerfing base lethality.
Base Solars weren't made to survive a hit by a goremaul.

>>98409006
>A main problem with Essence is that many general charms lack modes for all exalts
This reads like a very minor problem to me. Never played Essence, looked over the backer pdf when it was new. Evrey charm could very easily be flavored differently, and plenty seemed distinct. In other editions you still have essentialy the same charms with different names in different books, same deal. Especially since Essence isn't that granular and a bit more narrative to start with.

>>98407536
Thank you very much.

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>Essence.
The way the spoken are treated is really weird.

>>98409456
Why does seemingly every species with even a speck of intelligence want to fuck humans?

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>>98402657
Can you play Exalted with minis? Is it at all practical or fun to do so?

I've only ever played Exalted Essence, although I have a PDF for 3rd edition too. The Storyteller always ran it theatre-of-the-mind and we played online so I'm not sure if any VTT would work anyway. But I personally prefer playing with minis and more precise spatial tracking, so I was wondering if it works in Exalted.

>>98409874
You can play with minis and tokens just remember that a few of the movement Powers will often allow you to fuck off most boards.

>>98409673
There is a nonzero chance that orca actually wants to eat the humans.

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>>98410069
Even Tilikum didn't eat humans.

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>>98410055
Cool. From what I remember, Exalted Essence mostly handled things in "range bands" and not precise 1m-2m or x feet movements. Are there rules on converting from bands to precise measurements, or would I have to improvise?

>>98407555
oh if you want fun and power aCoD is significantly better, but it will stomp over the rest of the terrestrial equivalent exalts and a fair number of celestials. Some of the best charms in the book are mid tier at best in aCoD with a few exceptions. Its also less bookkeeping because aura was a terrible, terrible decision

>>98409172
>Evrey charm could very easily be flavored differently, and plenty seemed distinct.
Distinct in what way? The way I'm seeing is that that most exalts using a version of a charm that everyone else can use is the polar opposite of distinct. Yes every exalt would have something like a multiattack, but they'd usually have a small flourish to make it different.

>>98410069
Orcas, funnily enough, never attack humans in the wild, only ever a handful of incidents with ones kept in captivity.

>>98410146
Which celestial in specific? The unfinished exigents & the apocryphal duo?

>aura was a terrible, terrible decision
Some times I wonder if dragon blooded would fare better if they were more like the benders from avatar, and could only use their aspect element.

>>98410192
And if I remember correctly (ok this is a bit ago, I admit) most of the key charms had different modes or whatever they called them. Plus they play differently based on anima/splat powers like Solars' free excellency and Infernals' bonus essence regeneration, Lunar stuff etc. And the rest can be bridged with flavor, stunts etc. I just don't think different Exalts read like they play that similarly. Than again i never actally played it, I'm ExWod only nowadays. Have you played it, are they really that samey?

>>98410255
Yeah, primarily, they also provide a much bigger challenge for lunars than you might expect. Crumple is only one person and he wrote this with only the solar book to compare to, so theres some whoops charms in there like Meteor Impact Strike, which beats most decisive adders in the celestial tier, especially at that low essence.

Nysela isn't a solar even in 2e. My lore skill is FUCKED.

>>98410420
Huh? She being a "sun" goddess and in love with Conky was well-known, 3e just made her incestuous.

>>98410464
I'm just dumb as fuck. Legit no other excuse.

>>98410464
Also it doesn't have to be incest. If you had a daughter or niece and someone did something to them that needed beating up I'm sure you'd try to. What I'm saying is, Nysela using the sun to burn fuckers is basically her dad not letting someone mess with his kid. Along with a bit of "Yay! Dad gave me the keys to his car!"

the incest angle is hot tho but dad/daughter incest is the worst incest.

>>98410312
Different anima abilities don't make the exalt anon. One of the reasons I like exalted is that each exalt is fundamentally different. While there's some overlap with some charms yes, they often need a special flourish to make them stand out. Otherwise I'd go to Fate.

ExEss combat on the other hand is something I personally can't stand. Whoever thought of the idea of Power didn't understand the one of the few strengths of the initiative system. Combat feels utterly artifical in Essence, and honestly Essence can easily be summed up as "one step forward, five steps back" and "an Ex2 fan making a new exalted edition after having Ex3 described to them but not having read its rules".

>>98410477
Essence is a total different beast and I don't think it was meant to "take over" anything. It's fun but mechanics can also be fun and essence just isn't complex enough to hit that.

It is cool how any non-combat build can drastically help in a fight with a teamwork roll but you're also at a huge disadvantage if you don't do that so... It works though, and it works fine. I just don't get the point - if you want to freeform RP nothing stops you and essence still has rules so...

>>98410254
>Orcas, funnily enough, never attack humans in the wild,
They do however have a habit of scuttling billionaire-owned pleasure cruises. Think about that.

>>98410652
Mediterranean ones seem to attack boats in general, they also attacked refugees.

>>98410681
Dolphins no longer the most based cetaceans.

>>98410141
Range bands were something along the lines of
>close range
5 meters or less
>Short range
About 10 meters or less
>Medium range
from 20 to 200 meters
>Long range
Up to 1 kilometer and anything beyond this would be a Extreme Range.

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>>98410942
Awesome, thanks. I think I'll go with something like 1 square = 1 metre and work it out that way.

>>98410963
Just read the description of each ability and things should make sense. the problem doing before that shit comes up and being reasonably consistent

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>>98410487
They talk about following its frame work in a possible 4th edition

>>98411129
I don't get why they would want to. A simple version like Essence with a far more mechanically complex one was rather neat to me. Exalted without "weird" mechanics to have fun with would be a game where every splat was just 2e/3e solars without any expansion charms. To be clear, I don't care for essence but that's because i like numbers go brrm.

The first book is always the most basic because it sets the ground work. It's why core books also contain some of the most broken stuff. I'm sure they know this by now, they've been doing it for their entire lives.

>>98411148
I think they want to move away from "exalted types are multi gamelines in a trenchcoat" to a more "exalted types are subsplats", because of this, the Essence framework is more attractive for them.

>>98411156
I mean it's worth entertaining but someone is going to have to work real hard to convince people that what they really want isn't an infernal book but instead a book that just has a bit of infernal content. This is coming from a fan of the franchise as a whole.

This isn't Godbound, they'll be able to have multiple books. They don't need to shove everything into one just because they might no be able to make another. I don't think at least.

>>98411164
It is because exalted is becoming more about "chosen of gods, named exalted" instead of "exalted, who happen to be the chosen of gods".
With a bigger push for multiple splat games.

>>98411208
It'd be a choice because to me that just sounds like every other god warrior/kung-fu anime game.

>>98411208
>exalted is becoming more about "chosen of gods, named exalted" instead of "exalted, who happen to be the chosen of gods".
What did he mean by this..........................

>>98411226
The game is about the chosen of the gods named exalted, but exalted aren't a generic chosen of the gods template.
Each exalted type is its own distinct thing.
But with the introduction of some nu exalted, Exalts are becoming more of a generic "chosen of the gods" template.

>>98411129
Probably better than using 3E as a framework. Or 1E/2E. Better still would be walking away from anything ST-derivated (and thus Shadowrun-derivated) and consider what exactly people enjoy about playing (not reading) this game. And than try building around that. Exalted has some of the slowest combats I've seen, as an example to consider, one of the reason my group won't touch it. You totally want that scale difference between average joe but with a baseballbat and dawn with a daiklave, but that doesn't need to lead to 5-10 minute combat turns.

>>98411129
>They talk about following its frame work in a possible 4th edition
They are already following Essence's framework in 3e. Why do you think all those 'ask X questions from the following list' charms only appeared in Sidereals and afterward? Because Essence came out and was testing/proving it's shit between Lunars and Sidereals.

>>98408662
Okay, I'm not sure if you're being deliberately obtuse or not but let me make myself clear.
I am aware of those passages.
I am utterly unimpressed by the fact that Fangs at the Gate tries to excuse the living child offering as some kind of shit test.
I can distinguish 3e Raksi from the yapping in this thread.
And I am less impressed by her portrayal than when she was just a mad ape witch who may or may not have had a few more tricks up their sleeve.

>they're not, mostly, complete idiots
>laughs in Flashing Peak (a senior god)
The only smart gods (Ryzala, Ahlat) are exactly the kind of ambitious and entitled fuckers I would point to as reasonable evidence that gods should not be characterised as instinctively benign towards humans.

>>98409456
It's been said before, but they make a lot more sense as a Behemoth-species, like Dragon-Kings on steroids. It's just that 3e is anal about Exalted and only Exalted being the only things other Exalted should be compared against.

>>98410474
>but dad/daughter incest is the worst incest.
Wrong, it's the hottest and most based. Don't believe me? Take it up with Exalted Modern's writers who for no discernible reason as far as I can tell made the Unconquered Sun Luna's father as well as daddy, and made their love a major plot point for why those who became the Lunars were absent for the war against the Yozis and Gorol's ensuing betrayal since they were using Luna's love for the Sun to convince her to Exalt them.

In all seriousness though, even though it is hot I will be honest: I am as baffled by that call as I am by a lot of 3e writing. It's still hot, I just can't read it as anything other than someone's fetish making it past editorial.

>>98410942
Shit gets more confusing at Extreme range and when you're dealing with multiple of them, but to be fair that is (mostly) an Arms of the Chosen/corebook early 3e problem that the devs have seemingly just quietly backed away from in the hope of never addressing again.

>>98412383
>The only smart gods (Ryzala, Ahlat) are exactly the kind of ambitious and entitled fuckers I would point to as reasonable evidence that gods should not be characterised as instinctively benign towards humans.
Literally nobody ITT has said anything at all about gods being benign towards humans, anon, and that has absolutely nothing to do with whether or not they should have respect for Sidereals - who, again, are powerful, useful and backed by the Bureau of Destiny.

>>98411525
Aren't those kind of charms pretty old? NWoD had a bunch of such powers, I even homebrewed one for Oramus.

>>98412546
>NWoD
>Exalted Charms
????????????

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Why is having a yandere Lunar waifu from the First Age such a popular thing for Solar players?

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>>98413048
It is one of the 4~5 great lunar archetypes

>>98413098
What are the others?

>>98412546
>Aren't those kind of charms pretty old? NWoD had a bunch of such powers, I even homebrewed one for Oramus.
No. In Exalted, they appeared in Essence first, and the format from Essence was very clearly followed in Sidereals on.

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>>98413552

>>98413048
Because it's an easy way to get the ball rolling.

>>98413707
...into an early grave and subsequent reincarnation.

>>98413048
Crazy is hot. Crazy loyal is also hot. Powerful is hot too. It's also a well-known canon character, Lilith gets a lot of stories and comics for a reason. It's also an easy way to not have the character who came in be typecaste as a weaker Solar to be disregarded, or as a silver Exalt here to do Solar/PC things taking your glory who'd be hated.

>>98413678
Exalted writers keep reinventing the wheel...

>>98413770
Just spam celestial bliss trick and whatever loyalty inducing stuff you have on hand. What could possibly go right?

>>98414005
Get out of my head, Desus.

>>98414097
Nah it's pretty roomie in here.
Also remember to give her the form you can mount in a literal and biblical way.

Solar Beastmen were a thing weren't they?

>>98414176
If by "Solar Beastmen" you mean "a beastman with a Solar Exaltation" then yes, at least one existed (Ophilis Ses, Night Caste) since beastmen are functionally humans with preset mutations that breed true and thus qualify to be Exalted. But if you mean "offspring of a Solar and an animal in humanoid form" then those don't exist by default because that particular privilege is reserved for Lunars.

>>98414371
Not that, I'm asking if Half Cast Beastmen have ever been a thing. IIRC 1e had some stuff about how they could have a many of the merits but couldn't get charms.

>>98414406
Half-Castes should not be a thing, so no.

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Stat this Artifact.

>>98414515
I'm fine with them being a thing, but they should be a whole lot more limited.

>>98414916
Immunity to Acid should be a 3 dot thing.

>>98407602
>>98407614

Speaking about this, did Holden ever do exalted vs chronicles of darkness? Literally chronicles is more of a balanced game than oWoD so i'm curious how Exalts would look in that setting. I know he also wanted to do his own version of Exalted as a rewrite, but I don't care about that as much.

>>98416815
>Speaking about this, did Holden ever do exalted vs chronicles of darkness? Literally chronicles is more of a balanced game than oWoD so i'm curious how Exalts would look in that setting.
He started on it but no.

>I know he also wanted to do his own version of Exalted as a rewrite, but I don't care about that as much.
Yes, Demake is in the OP. It's pretty darn good.

>>98407614
>That the book pointedly presented Sids with the nastiest supernatural diseases in the line for Citrine Poxes to smack fools with.
It's hard to say that's true. It presented four of six supernatural diseases in the entire gameline. Of the six supernatural diseases, Iphimedeia is the best, sure, but Cracked Mirror Blight from Arms is the next-best and Puppeteer's Plague as the only non-shaping supernatural disease is in the 3-5 range with White Sun Sickness and Jigsaw Organ Condition. Neither of them are bad compared to the ones in the Sidereals book.

And that's to say nothing of the fact that putting diseases on people is actual trash as a mechanic. Supernatural diseases don't have reduced pools like in 1e/2e, the only limit on treatment is that you can only use magical medicine and most people are straight Stam+Resisting it anyway because non of the difficulties are higher than 7. You need to land a decisive attack or gambit to actually inflict any of them (decisive in 3e kill 90% of the time anyway, so 90% of the time that's just wasted motes, and using a gambit as a simple action is your entire turn in a system where most combat lasts 2-3 at most for a non-incapacitating strike), and even if you do land it they resist it, even if they don't resist it the payoff is basically nothing, and the way to improve the payoff requires you be in Form and crash an opponent, so you've won already. Also it's a full charm buy per disease. It's only useful for win-more and killing weaklings, and you can do that with Excellency.

I'm not saying Citrine Poxes is bad. I'm saying that the disease part of it is meaningless in combat and only useful for social / narrative situations - and even there it's often bad, because landing gambits/decisives on people usually means it's JB time again and the diseases are bad in combat. Citrine Poxes is redeemed only by it's medical and damage reduction effects, which have the advantage of being good effects.

>>98416824

Does he plan on ever finishing the chronicles vs exalted?

>>98416889
I doubt it. I checked his discord. The most recent drafts I found were from 2019.

I don't get the way armies work in 3e. Are you telling me my archers will try to get into fist fights with heavy cavalry if they're close enough unless I tell them to withdraw to get distance? Would the default behavior of battlegroups not render many historical strategies impossible, for example the Parthian retreat?

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>>98417203
>Are you telling me my archers will try to get into fist fights with heavy cavalry if they're close enough unless I tell them to withdraw to get distance?
A battlegroup can make close-ranged area attacks (which hit everyone in contact with the battlegroup) or ranged area attacks (that hit a target and everyone within close range of them), but not both at once. You aren't locked into using close-ranged attacks if an opponent is in close range since you can always choose to shoot someone else, but if you target that opponent then you are doing a close-ranged attack. You can in theory split off a small group of the larger army to engage in melee while the rest make ranged attacks, but that (and splitting battlegroups in general) is usually considered absolute bullshit no fun gameruining. If you have a large battlegroup it is generally considered more powerful to make close ranged attacks because your battlegroup can spread across a lot wider area and hit a lot more people in close range than it can at long range, where it's area attack always hits a target and close range from that target regardless of how large the battlegroup is (and regardless of how little sense a thousand archers hitting only ever hitting tiny ten meter squares makes).

>Would the default behavior of battlegroups not render many historical strategies impossible, for example the Parthian retreat?
Yes. The system is not good at simulating any kind of warfare, tactics, or strategy, whether you are looking at it on an individual unit scale or large battle scale. The only place it can work accurately sometimes is with many small groups, but that's generally considered the least fun and most grindy possible way to play it out, since each small group needs to be an individual actor and anything more than ten or so individual actors means it'll take an hour per turn, so it never actually happens.

Explain to me how past lives of Exalted work like I'm ten. When Bob the Solar dies, his soul goes to reincarnate and his Exaltation leaves to uplift someone else, right? Does the Exaltation then always pick Bob's reincarnated soul if able to make him an Exalted again? Does it only do that sometimes? Or does the Exaltation "soak up" memories and then imparts them on its new hosts, meaning new chosen are not actually the same person reborn to be a hero again but more like another one chosen to carry on a legacy?

>>98417318
>Or does the Exaltation "soak up" memories and then imparts them on its new hosts, meaning new chosen are not actually the same person reborn to be a hero again but more like another one chosen to carry on a legacy?
Yes, Exaltations search for new hosts, but not the same high souls.

My theory is that, it is like this because the devs noticed that solars would be small children otherwise.

>>98417318
>Or does the Exaltation "soak up" memories and then imparts them on its new hosts, meaning new chosen are not actually the same person reborn to be a hero again but more like another one chosen to carry on a legacy?
It's exactly this.

>>98417256
Which means if I want to play a cool military leader type I'm SOL because the War system is complete ass and cannot represent that in any kind of entertaining fashion.

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>>98416889
Probably not, he seems to be focusing on demake and black vault

>>98416959
>>98416889
There was a whole thing with the leaks of the existing version that pissed him off to the point the project was dropped.

>>98415941
>Immunity to Acid
What the hell are you using it for anyway?

>>98417665
Sailing across Kimbery

>>98417318
>When Bob the Solar dies, his soul goes to reincarnate and his Exaltation leaves to uplift someone else, right?
Yes.

>Does the Exaltation then always pick Bob's reincarnated soul if able to make him an Exalted again?
On the one hand definitely not, on the other hand yes. No, because the higher soul is almost always different (Exaltation definitely isn't going to wait for your ghost to go to Lethe, but it's theoretically possible for one higher soul to get the same Exaltation twice) and the lower soul is never the same twice (they disperse into the world after death). Yes, Bob's reincarnated soul will be in the next Exalt in line, because the Exaltation itself is soul-stuff and Exalted are triple-souled with it, so Bob's next incarnation will always have Bob's reincarnated soul, specifically their Exalted soul.

>does the Exaltation "soak up" memories and then imparts them on its new hosts
This does happen, yes. Souls in Exalted leak into each other a lot, which is why higher souls have passions/fetters and lower souls have skills and can talk. The Exalted soul picks up stuff from the hun and po / higher and lower souls, and the higher and lower souls pick up some stuff from the Exaltation too like a higher Essence/Attribute rating in death beyond what ghosts can naturally attain along with any compatible cross-splat stuff they'd be able to use.

>new chosen are not actually the same person reborn to be a hero again but more like another one chosen to carry on a legacy?
Yes and no. They are both the a person reborn and a new person growing into their legacy. How much they are the former in 1e/2e depended a lot on the Past Lives and Throwback merit/flaws, but they almost always come into things with at least a fresh perspective and a bunch of new attachments to the world and expectations on how they're going to handle it which usually don't match the previous incarnations. Who knows where precedence lies naturally though, if Lytek wasn't cleaning them.

>>98417834
I assumed mostly this >>98417386 because what Exaltations really are and how they exactly work seems fuzzy on purpose. Saying they are like a third soul that attaches to a mortal makes sense but is that explicitly stated anywhere or just an interpretation? Not that I am above changing fluff, I'm mostly just curious.

Also a separate question but do artifact daggers or knives exist or am I just blind and can't find any anywhere?

>>98418188
>Also a separate question but do artifact daggers or knives exist or am I just blind and can't find any anywhere?
Yes there are, IIRC they're called "Short Daiklaves" or "Dreadfangs." There's a few statted in Arms of the Chosen.

>>98418188
It was started somewhere, the third soul/exaltation even has a proper name that I forgot (kaeru?)

>The details are fuzzy.
I think it is because of the many rewrites the setting had during 1e's development and after its release; it is noticeable by how sidereals and dragon blooded work, that the 3rd soul wasn't meant to exist, with celestial being born with an exalted high soul, and terrestrials having an exalted low soul.

I got one question about Kal Bax's invisible fortress from the last thread.
If the Solars there died centuries after the usurpation, would their exaltations go into the jade prison?
I always thought the jade prison was a one time thing, and you couldn't add any more exaltations to it after it was sealed.

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In all the 2e comics the abyssals and deathlords have black speech bubbles.
Is this supposed to indicate that if you heard an abyssal talking, something in his voice will give away he's undead?

>>98418293
Looked again and apparently they're called Dire Talons. Sometimes I wish they didn't use those fancy ass names so it was easier to tell at a glance what's what. I was asking mostly because I know of short daiklaves but those are more like paired shortswords and I have a thing for knives.

Has 3e released rules for dragon kings yet? Which book if so.

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Was there ever a follow up comic to this scene?
I only remember afterwards Dukantha made a new lens for Oliphem and it took control of him.

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>>98418956
also here's lilith from the first age.

>>98418900
>Looked again and apparently they're called Dire Talons.
My bad, it's been a while since I last read Arms.

>>98418879
Probably just a stylistic choice.

>>98418864
Yeah, I think there's some mentions of Solars exalting after the Usurpation, but they were almost nonexistant and quickly suppressed by the Shogunate or Sidereals while both were on top of things.

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One interesting thing I noticed from the caste books is that there are 3 pirate captain solars, each a different caste.
Moray is Dawn, Ocean Pearl is Zenith, Kalonice is Night.

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How the fuck is Ranlea of Gem a dawn? She's literally an assassin.

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Also here's a passage of Ranlea shit talking Havesh.

I'm reading through the black vault stuff for Exalted vs World of Darkness as I did not realize how much was in this. I've yet to crack open the demake, but in general for the people who play this crossover do they find it to be generally good or bad? This seems kinda like a nerf to the Exalted

>>98419763
Holden took notice about how broken crafting is, and also refuses to balance exalts around celerity.

>>98419070
Not all warfare is blatant and favored abilities are a thing.

>>98418188
>Saying they are like a third soul that attaches to a mortal makes sense but is that explicitly stated anywhere or just an interpretation?
References to the reincarnated souls of the Solar Exalted and their Exalted souls are all over the place in 1e, but it's mostly an early edition thing that isn't referenced so much anymore, mostly because Exaltations became divine artifice wrought by Autochthon and much more mechanistic halfway through 1e.

>>98418864
>If the Solars there died centuries after the usurpation, would their exaltations go into the jade prison?
>I always thought the jade prison was a one time thing, and you couldn't add any more exaltations to it after it was sealed.
They're the major group that didn't get sealed. There were probably some more flying around, but there were about a score of unsealed Solars still running around, which was why the Wyld Hunt needed to be a thing, and probably also why it took a couple centuries for the Wyld Hunt to form in the first place (as the First Age Solars locking themselves up in their isolated retreats who hadn't been found died off over about that long).

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>>98418188

>>98420536
>but it's mostly an early edition thing that isn't referenced so much anymore
It is because the devs do a lot of contradictory stuff in general.

>mostly because Exaltations became divine artifice wrought by Autochthon and much more mechanistic halfway through 1e.
Autocthon involvement is from very early 1e (times of tumult), exaltations became more mechanical over 2e.
But even then it was 3e that made it truly artifacts.

>>98420586
>Autocthon involvement is from very early 1e (times of tumult)
Time of Tumult just says that Autochthon may have, according to old stories, taught gods the skills needed to make their own tools, including the Exalted. I don't think it says anywhere that this was definitely the case, let alone that Autochthon actually took part in the making on non-Alchemical Exalted.

>>98420586
>Autocthon involvement is from very early 1e (times of tumult), exaltations became more mechanical over 2e.
It wasn't a thing by Savant and Sorcerer, but it was a thing by The Autochthonians.

Me and my group want to give Exalted a try ,we are not min-maxers , we just want to have some fun , conquer a country , cause war , solve shit etc , so which one is the most lore and mechanically sound ? 1e or 2e ?

obs: 3e is not an option , from what i gathered form the thread and google , its a 10 year old game that is still not completed , missing content and woke and sanitized as hell , like the other anon said "3e is a retarded game made by retards for retards".

>>98420870
Your best options would be ExWoD or Godbound, the later being better for your premise.

If that's too convoluted 2e has what you want for the game but many of the core mechanics are unreasonable jank and first edition has some major gaps you need to patch with stuff from other versions of the game.

Essence exist but it also has the Actual Attack vs Building Up Initiative just like we.

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>>98420870
>which one is the most lore and mechanically sound ? 1e or 2e ?
1e is more mechanically sound, in that it's a bit harder to break the combat system and easier to fix it when it does break, but it lacks a lot of the secondary systems you might want if you go for that kind of game and you'd have to copy them from elsewhere if you wanted them (stuff like a social system or a kingdom-building system). 2e is more immediately gripping mechanically and if you're in it to see how high the gonzo superpowers go 2e goes further and faster, and it does have all the subsystems you could ever want. 2e also has the most lore and it's easiest to find what you're looking for in that edition, and definitely if you want to do schlocky fun big damn heroes it's the better way to go. 1e is more down to earth and focussed on consequences and trying to present the world as a place with real people.

To talk about the options >>9842090, Exalted vs World of Darkness exists but doesn't try to do what you want it to. It's more robust mechanically but is hard to port into Creation, which seems to be where you want to play, and is built by someone who strongly believes Exalted should stay on the street level where they belong. Godbound has some ups and downs - it's definitely the simplest option to play, and it has the best rules for kingdom building and big magical workings, but it can also feel limiting and like you aren't working with much, and the combat is based on 2e, devolves as quickly as 2e, and breaks in exactly the same way.

I'll also mention Demake (in the OP same place you'd find ExVsWoD) and Essence. Demake is very cool and robust but thin if you're planning to play Abyssals/Infernals/etc, and the lore is minimal. Essence starts off ok, gets great after a few sessions, then tapers off really fast when you start running out of things to do.

>>98420909
The first answer to 'A or B' should never be 'throw out both A and B to go play pattycake'.

>>98420870
No edition's really all that sound, though all of them are cool in their own way. 3E's at least as solid an option as 1E and 2E, and you really shouldn't form a strong opinion on it based on just what you hear from anons. Exalted Essence might be the best official edition to get started,,and you can move on from it to whatever edition, official or fanmade, that suits your fancy.

>>98420870
>>98420909

I think Godbound is a rough one to recommend. It's better than exalted in my opinion on actually doing some exalted stuff, but mechanically what it gives incentives for is different in comparison to actual exalted.

>>98420941

This anon gets it. I wish i could add more to it, but it's pretty much that. I think Exalted vs World of Darkness is the easiest one to start and while it may not be creation if you've played any of the other splats you can experience the fun of exalted without the bad mechanics.

That said, 3e can work. It just takes more work.

>>98421102
I think the problem is that Exalted sells a premise that doesn't work with their rules most of the time. Godbound, while suffering from it's own kind of jank here and there, at least makes a lot of the high magnitude stuff.

To phrase it another way, the setting hypes tself up to God of War levels of power but rarely gives people the rules for it.

>>98420909
>>98420941
>>98421026
>>98421102

ty for all the answers but >>98420941
got it right , we indeed want to play in Creation , it seems that 2e has the system we want and the most lore, we do like a down to earth setting , but that can be easily achieved with our GM.

Ty for your time guys.

>>98421784
Essence also takes place in Creation, and while it's not my favorite, it'd be a lot less broken introduction to Exalted than 2E. I'd recommend at least giving it a read.

>>98420536
>>98420549
I don't really know 1E, only ever read 2E and 3E. My impression is that in 3E the writers are very ambiguous on what exaltations exactly are and how they work in detail to avoid stripping the mystique and inevitably leading to people gaming those mechanisms.

>>98421955
>I don't really know 1E, only ever read 2E and 3E. My impression is that in 3E the writers are very ambiguous on what exaltations exactly are and how they work in detail to avoid stripping the mystique and inevitably leading to people gaming those mechanisms.
3e writers didn't leave it very ambiguous, they just started calling a lot of things that shouldn't be considered Exalted Exalted to confuse the definition. Funnily the one thing they did clarify was that the patrons choose who Exalts 100% unlike before where they were a problem who couldn't be taken back or managed that way.

>>98420765
It said that Autocthon created the gods themselves, exalted and their weapons. which matches the lore of the chronicles of amber

>>98421236
The real problem is that the premise isn't 100% honest.
Despite the "world shaking powers", 1e outright called Essence 1~5 exalted a bunch of scrubs who don't understand their own powers, and without their charms, exalted are barely a step above heroic mortals

>>98422067
>It said that Autocthon created the gods themselves, exalted and their weapons
No, it said that there were tales - not confirmed facts - about Autochton's "role in the forging of the gods themselves" (which doesn't imply that he was the only Primordial with a role in it) and about him "apprenticing the gods in creation of their own tools, including the various types of the Exalted" (which pretty straightforwardly means that Autochthon taugh the gods, not that he made stuff for them). Also, again, these are tales that may or may not be true - at that point in the game's development, that is, obviously things became more set in stone later on.

>>98422067
>and without their charms, exalted are barely a step above heroic mortals
The solution is more Permanent-duration Charms.

>>98422108
He created the bureau-of-fate-screwing god of luck at behest of Lunar, so there's precedent.

>at that point in the game's development, that is, obviously things became more set in stone later on.
>which doesn't imply that he was the only Primordial with a role in it
At this point of the gameline, the only other primordial was likely Gaia.

>>98422108
>apprenticing the gods in creation of their own tools, including the various types of the Exalted
This also can be read as 'apprenticing the gods (including the various types of the Exalted) in creation of their own tools', which matches what Savant and Sorcerer says about Autochthon teaching the Exalted how to artifice. The Exalted being tools of the gods is a strange reading that only makes sense in the context of 2eisms.

>>98422188
>The Exalted being tools of the gods is a strange reading that only makes sense in the context of 2eisms.
Well, the gods created the exalted as tools to get the games of divinity.

>>98422188
That reading doesn't seem correct to me. I don't think "including the Exalted" can, assuming correct grammar, be read to include the Exalted among gods rather than theor tools. Of course, it's,also just a fact that Exalts aren't gods, so that reading doesn't really work in that sense either.

>>98422237
The gods would be the subject being referred to. It's a case of the possibly-missing comma ("apprenticing the gods, in creation of their own tools, including the various types of Exalted" very clearly reads one way, but since the comma is missing it can be read the other way - but the disappearing comma being supposed to be there is a valid reading too)

>Of course, it's,also just a fact that Exalts aren't gods, so that reading doesn't really work in that sense either.
Exalted are often considered gods colloquially, even if they don't fit the technical definition. Exalted are the third most likely group to be called gods after gods and the incarnae.

>>98422283
>Exalted are often considered gods colloquially, even if they don't fit the technical definition.
They are also colloquially tools of the gods, or were back in the day, even if they don't fit the technical definition.

>"apprenticing the gods, in creation of their own tools, including the various types of Exalted" very clearly reads one way
I don't think it actually reads the way you think it does even with that comma, and I don't think gods can be the group Exalts are included in without changing the word order, but eh, I'm not an English teacher, so I'll not argue this point any further.

>>98422067
>exalted are barely a step above heroic mortals
Heroic mortals are very limited in terms of dice tricks and often require resources and a lot of time.

While alchemy and enchantment have a lot of useful things they just lack the potency needed to do shit.

So yeah your least shitty option could be as heroic mortal is a summoner.

>>98422408
I wouldn't bother even going that far. Anon's full quote was
>without their charms, exalted are barely a step above heroic mortals
Which is like... the point of the game? Charms are the advantage Exalted have over mortals. It's like saying without superpowers comic book superheroes aren't much better than Conan heroes, or that D&D casters aren't much better than martials if they don't use magic. Exalted ARE mortals+ and the + is that they have charms, their advantages beyond that are pitiful intentionally.

>>98422472
I still say we need more Permanent duration Charms.

>>98422472
In exalted's case, it creates incredible imbalance and lethality.
Buckets of lethal dice vs an opponent who has 7 health levels and 1~2 lethal soak.