Would it be too much to give people a Spirit Pact "Investment" of Spirit Powers in exchange for a Geas equal to the points involved?

>>98410133
>What is your preferred mode of travel?
Walkabouting through the Shadow.

>>98410133
I had an Anarch leaning Tremere who used movement of the Mind to fly his invisible camero

>>98410133
I'm thinking of the OP image as Caine from Bloodlines for some reason. It would be pretty fucking funny to watch him shooting a pistol out the door of his cab at some crazy Sabbat road raiders

>>98410172
>Damn whippersnappers! Get off my lawn!

>>98410154
Anon, that's called being a Kami.

>TQ
1941 Cadillac upgraded with necrotempered glass. It could also travel to and from the underworld.

>>98410133
>tq:
Movement of the mind.
But haters keep bothering me about muh masquerade, so I may have to start adding Donning the Mask of Shadows.

>>98410198
Is it point for point like other Investures?

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>>98410133
Correspondence 3

>>98410236
But what paradigm method? I had a mage that would blindfold himself & get intentionally lost to somehow end up where he was going in a short amount of time

>>98410236
and what's your foci for it?

Did anyone ever use the mass combat system? It doesn't sound bad on the surface but i'm curious if the dark ages version is trash or not.

If you were to design an MTAs crpg, how would you handle it?

>>98410288
He's clearly talking about Uber rides

>>98410413
There's a couple of core mechanics I think would pair well with it
>Grid-based X-com lite combat
>Combat spells are largely pre-made archetypal wizard spells to reward positioning, though you still have a gun and melee and buffs
>exploration gameplay is im-sim like, movement abilities you unlock through leveling spheres, etc.
>social gameplay should copy more or less a mix of VtMB and disco elysium, spheres should have their own conversational input for you that's based on supernatural knowledge though it'll often be useless
>dialogue checks for fantastical elements with magic, like quickly disabling a guard by Magneto'ing the iron in their blood or blocking a door for reinforcements and character movement with a grown tree
This is kind of rough, but I think you could make a pretty excellent Mage game with a mixture of pre-baked combat spells and dialogue magic like dominate in Bloodlines.

Probably would be for the better if there's spell crafting and foci selection stuff, though personally being able to make your own Mage would over complicate the game short of a full sandbox RPG. Would be the most cost-effective to have a premade Mage with personality choices like The Nameless One or Detective Raphael Ambrosius Costeau

>>98410236
>>98410133
My party had a shrine maiden Dreamspeaker, an Aztec blood mage Orphan, a dock worker Nephandus (sort of, he was an involuntary pawn of an undersea leviathan and Awakening turned him into a fishman), and a Hermetic professor. They traveled short distances via the orphan's truck but long distances by Correspondence. The Hermetic prepared specialized snowglobes with hung rituals in them to port the whole party back to base in case things got out of hand OR transit them to their destination. The shrine miko had a spirit dragon she wanted to use to travel but it almost always got sidelined by teleporting being faster.

I was too lenient on Correspondence and Time in that game. Revised how I did both for subsequent campaigns.

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Stat her.

>>98410435
>shrine maiden Dreamspeaker,
Do you have pictures of her?

>>98410298
Sorry bro, I know you e asked before but I never have & I dont think anyone else here has.

>>98410133
Now that we're talking about custom rides... Could it be possible to get a Spectre Limousine to look like a Cadillac Sedan Deville 1975 model?

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>>98410133
>TQ
So, we were using an allied NPC to teleport around early in the chronicle. Then we killed Dracula Flow and stole ourselves a crashed UFO along with a function shuttlecraft. Now we have Aiko (12 year old Princess) flying it around. When asked how she's so good at flying it, we replies with "I have a crippling addiction to War Thunder."


Anyway, last night's game saw Berlin put on the backburner while we return to Okinawa to deal with a massive viral outbreak.
>Land shuttle in fleshy patch of forest
>It's beautiful despite being made entirely of flesh, bone, and blood
>Hibiki and Hina eat some meat fruits
>Everyone else freaks out over them eating said fruits
>Saya appears, realize this is her Orchard of Flesh and not the outbreak
>Saya tells us to head east until we hit the road, then follow it north
>Says she'd come with us, but needs to stay here because the infected combat forms keep launching spore pods at the orchard
>Also warns us there's garou and/or kitsune also fighting the infected not too far from here
>We go forward, encounter two basic combat forms (Skirmishers) and one tank-like form (Excisor)
>Hina transforms, but now instead of becoming a 650lbs black man, she becomes a generic white girl
>She tries her classic trick of squishing the excisor, faceplants into it because she no longer is morbidly obese
>Dan hears a chorus of thousands chatter in his skull after trying to use his electrokinesis on the Excisor
>Tells Aiko "Set it on fire"
>Aiko has one white phosphorus grenade, does EXACTLY that.
>Hina and the excisor both hit
>Hana heals Hina, we keep fighting
>Smoke conceals a skirmisher and the excisor, Aiko and Andrea are unaffected due to both having thermals
>Aiko finishes off the excisor May Payne style with her dual berettas
>We continue forward, Dan is beckoned by a voice

>>98410433
Tbh, I think a good way to do it would be focusing on a specific tradition or convention for the player character so you can have a grounded paradigm or ''system'' for what kind of shit you can pull with the spellcrafting. Kind of like how Ars Magicka is all hermetics

>>98410449
Fair enough. It's in the dark age companions under the medieval warfare section of the book. When I always missed it because I skimmed the books so I was surprised. I don't think most people know it's there.

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>>98410479
Cont.

>Discover a small encampment, two more skirmishers, but also a hovering female creature
>Hovering foid is called a Psion, describe her as looking kinda like a meditating version of Wisp from Warframe
>She tries to fuck with Dan mentally
>fails
>Fighting breaks out
>Skirmisher BTFO'd
>Psion fails to fuck with Dan several more times psychically, uses Synapse Burst to fire 9 electric arcs indiscriminately, killing the remaining skirmisher and burning several of us
>Also kills the drone one of Adelweiss' maids was watching from
>Dan nearly gets hit HARD but narrowly manages to use his electrokinesis to fling the bolt into a nearby tree
>Psion gets it's ass beat
>Dan asks it "any last words?"
>"Whoever kills me is a tranny."
>Dan says "Damn, that's crazy. Guess that's another problem with you."
>Puts gun in psion's hand, aims it at head, forces it to pull the trigger
>Suddenly, a girl appears from the north
>She looks EXACTLY like Hana in her mundane form prior to regressing into a 5 year old
>Pic related
>Claims the monsters don't hurt her
>Andrea does her mage stuff, girl appears human enough
>Introduces herself as Hidari
>Hana is immediately alarmed, because this is her real name
>Group split between suspicious and welcoming
>Dan uses his electrokinesis to make Hidari's finger twitch, hears the chorus again
>Overlayed is Hidari's voice
>"I have to escape from here"
>Hana ends up volunteering to take Hidari back to Saya so we can investigate further

That's all for then. Outbreak is linked to Hana's brother who succumbed to the outbreak on Yakushima but had enough of his mind left to search for his sister (Hana and Aiko are the only ones who have much of an idea so far)

Combat forms are also gonna evolve over time, working on more of em.

>>98410435
>nephandus
i think itd be more apt to call him a warlock or something unless his avatar is inverted and he rape-murders as his foci.

>>98410413
Little focus on combat, narrative heavy. Probably about solving some sort of enigma or conspiracy.
No other mages as the partymembers, other splats. Mage cosmology is treated as correct where relevant.
A set main character, possibly with some customization so we can dive deep into some specific paradigm, probably some hermetic.
Needs to take you to strange places that contrast the our world vs world of darkness. E.g. hermetic sanctum, nightclub, city hangout place, a woof caern, a weird gothic elysium. I want cool scenes that show off the fantastical of the world of darkness.
There'd be a focus on solving problems in many different ways, so probably quite short with high replayability. A sort of "get the best ending for everybody" approach.


Unironically that upcoming VtM Disco Elysium CRPG is exactly what I want, conceptually. Now it just needs to actually be good.

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>>98410630
>Now it just needs to actually be good.

>>98410630
>>98410762
Earthblood and VtMB2 had extenuating circumstances for being kind of bad, I have some faith.
>Bloodlines 2 had a lot of oversight by Paradox at the end when they mostly still didn't know what they want
>TCR has never made an actually good game on their own merits, even still wakes the deep is mid
>HSL was basically a bunch of grifters
>Mitsoda had no managerial talent
>Earthblood's guys got forced to add shit like stealth and change the story around because of the corpos when the devs had originally envisioned more of an RPG
I'm thinking the next couple of WoD games, with the unfortunate caveat that they'd be based around H5 and V5, will at least be made my people who know how to and want to make video games without insane corporate oversight. Just my 2 cents there.

Mage is still unadaptable though, you'd need both autistic tards and autistic tard wranglers aplenty and the modern vidya scene is basically a bunch of hacks with no ambitions and select few autists.

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>>98410630
>Little focus on combat, narrative heavy
>Disco Elysium
Fuck no, removing options is not how you make a satisfying RPG, the Santa Monica hub in Bloodlines 1 offers the best template for how it should be done, the Beach House and the hospital area specially, multiple approaches that assist the player's self-expression; social, violence, stealth and environmental puzzles (i.e. paying attention to clues in the game world let's you figure out passwords).
Don't give me the "we can't do combat because we are mature RPG" copout line.

>>98410630
>VtM Eternal Whispers
I wonder if we are getting all the clans or just a few... it would be a shame if we only got 5-6 playable clans.

>>98410783
>I wonder if we are getting all the clans or just a few
Probably few because every clan curse means another couple of scenarios where your curse has to fuck you.

Lets talk final bosses.

Who do you like to see as a main villain? I've been doing some light Set posting, but I think we need to give more appreciation to Voormas, the Grand Harvest of Souls of the Consanguinity of Eternal Joy. He has the most amazing title, and therefore earns +52 boss points (one point per letter; the longer and more convoluted the title, the more "final boss" it feels).

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>>98410777
I'm optimistic for the Hunter game, these devs are capable of making a good game based on their Robocop game, which is mainly a shooter, but it has narrative segments like the police department, that shows they can create good atmosphere, also some leaks showed a character sheet indicating that they are translating the TRPG mechanics into the game with some degree of fidelity.

>>98410807
Oh, fuck, I suppose I'll have to play as a shadowboy or a tzitrash.

>>98410814
Even though it's based on H5 lore?

>>98410808
I don't really think of my table's WoD as having a real "main villain", just a LOT of major ones.

>>98410825
So many they don't even fit in the post count!? They must have some amazing titles. Alas, we may never know them, accursed as we are with a mere 2000 characters.

>>98410825
Yeah but I figure that post was related to the idea of a hypothetical MtAs RPG.

>>98410818
H5 is perfectly fine, the problem people have with it is that it's more limited to a certain playstyle compared to Vigil, but that is not really problem if you want to make a game precisely in that playstyle.

>>98410832
He would make a great villain, but I was also hoping to use it as a spring board topic for people to post more about their own chronicles if they weren't interested in dreaming up a Mage game. I also just really wanted to announce Voormas, the Grand Harvester of Souls of the Consanguinity of Eternal Joy. It's quite a mouthful.

I think that Hunter: the Vigil got so popular because it gave us a power fantasy where we could strike against the parasites that oppress us. Mario did nothing wrong.

>>98410830
I didn't wanna spam the thread with a list, let alone explain my table's specific and probably pretty controversial over here customized setting unprompted.

>>98410832
It wasn't replying to anything so I assumed it was a general question.

>>98410845
mages fucking LOVE their titles. Canonically the true name of the average hermetic is far longer.

What a lot of people fail to realize is that sex magic is supposed to conclude with conception. The efficacy of the spell is due to the sympathy of creation with procreation. Ironically, the people who are most attracted to such magic prefer contraceptives.

>>98410850
I know you're /pol/ baiting, but Vigil is so popular by simple virtue of being customizable. Something most WoD games aren't great at, even before WoD5 went full "no fun allowed" with it. You can engage in "power fantasy" if you want, your high exp Lucifuge can pull his devil trigger and beat the breaks off of Strawmanio the Vampire. You can also play an accountant who saw something strange when walking home one night and is constantly avoiding and evading monsters that could squash him like a bug. The game is even set up so that you can start as an abject shitter and, over a long enough chronicle, become the scourge of the darkness. It's not only customizable in the scale of your character's power and the caliber of monster they're facing, but in what the chronicle is even about. You can be an occult detective, a religious fanatic, a vigilante, or a simple adrenaline junkie. You can even have a cell comprised of all four. It makes the most out of the "toolbox" approach by giving more than enough examples and rules to actually stoke creativity.

Vigil, in essence, facilitates running a much more conventional TTRPG experience in a WoD setting. It's very fun. Meanwhile Reckoning was a very specific flavor steeped in late Revised metaplot and H5 is a glorified pamphlet set in the worst WoD by every metric. Though I wouldn't say that means Vigil is winning by default, it holds its own against games in similar niches like Delta Green and Call of Cthulu.

Can a Changeling mix both Quicksilver and Windrunner into one effect on a Treasure?

>>98410895
Thanks for the breakdown Claude

>>98410413
Just make a mod of Disco Elysium.

>>98410898
As far as I can tell, most Treasure are made with a single Art, and since those are both in the same Art, you'd just use the higher rating of the two to make it, meaning you either have Windrunner 4 and the item you want, or you find four magical component items to make that item.

>>98410895
>Though I wouldn't say that means Vigil is winning by default, it holds its own against games in similar niches like Delta Green and Call of Cthulu.
While those are nice, I think the STS leads to a better game in most cases.

>>98410808
>Lets talk final bosses.
God.
If we've learned anything from Japanese roleplaying video games, it is that a rag-tag crew of weirdos can (and should) kill God/Demiurge.

>>98410969
How do I pick the variables of the Art? Like Quicksilvers success doubling speed?

>>98410818
>>98410837
H5's bigger crimes are more related to the lack of any lore in the book and "muh street level," neither of which matter for videogames.

>>98410998
The end goal of a mid-level Mage video game SHOULD be ascension and killing the demiurge. At a low level you can have some local literal who like a nephandus or an edgy bitter communist assassin.

>>98410818
>H5 lore
Nta but I'm also thinking about giving it a shot (mostly because of Robocop, that game was kino) despite the fact I hate what WoD5 did to my beloved hunters.

>>98411011
>muh street level
The fact the creators still can't understand there's thousands of levels of play between "Street Level" and "Power Fantasy" doesn't give much hope for their V6 project.

>>98411006
>Some Treasure apply bonuses or effects to other rolls; others require dice rolls to use or activate. A magical sword that allows the wielder to attack in a blur of speed (using the Wayfare Art power of Quicksilver) might require a roll to activate, with each success allowing an extra atatck with the sword, or might simply require that the play spend a point of Glamour but always grant the same number of extra attacks. In the former case, the roll to activate the sword should be an instant action, just as the cantrip would normally be, whereas in the latter case, spending the point of Glamour is a reflexive action.
>The dice pool for activation caries, too. If using the Treasure is a matter of employing the object for its usual function (...), then the normal dice pol for that action serves to activate the Treasure (...). If the Treasure's effect is purely magical (...), the dice pool might be the character's Glamour rating or Intelligence + Gremayre.
Changeling: the Dreaming, 20th Anniversary Edition, page 325

Now, there are a few things on this page that are of interest, and the reason I didn't just tell you to read the book.

First, it is not clear whether you have to pay Glamour in addition to rolling; there is an example item on the page that does require a roll and Glamour, and one that requires a roll and no Glamour.
Second, it never tells you how to decide on a static result.
Third, the first sample item is a permanent effect with no activation roll nor costs. It simply and permanently provides the benefit to anyone who holds the item at any time.

Taken together, I would say this has to be discussed at the table and adjudicated based on the individual circumstances. My instinct would be to set the rating of the Treasure to be the effective successes (meaning you could grab a fifth element to make it faster) and make it a permanent item, but your mileage may vary.

>>98411044
I agree, it doesn't help that they can't even bother adapting the conspiracy tiers from CofD into something better supported but their goal remains to be seen. V5 and H5, short of being shackled to street shit, are functional enough that I can't see a new edition coming. That said though, they said Elders are coming back in the new edition without being munched on so I can only assume it'll be more on the power-fantasy part of the spectrum.

>>98411083
>so I can only assume it'll be more on the power-fantasy part of the spectrum.
Can they actually write a power fantasy though? Specifically, can they write a system open to power fantasies the average male gamer would have, rather than a hyper-focus on the wrier's niche fantasies?(likely involving killing multiple variations of the same politician with a conspicuous fake tan and yellow hair dye)

>>98411035
Honestly yeah I'll give it a shot too. If it was anyone else than the guys who made that robocop and terminator game I'd be very hesitant but those guys know what the fuck they're doing

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Kaiba Goes to Hell (Feat. LittleKuriboh)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=txBGw1Y5StA

>>98411152
is Kaiba the technocratic ideal?

>>98411167
*Syndicate Ideal
The NWO would be too busy seething that he has more influence over the youth than they do, and that he's using it to make his customers HAPPY instead of putting subconscious commands into them.

>>98411167
>>98411186
>Kaiba makes people happy while being a jerk simply but not being a nephandus ceo
Pretty insane

>>98410983
I meant against other WoD games, mostly as a concession to the Reckoning guys. It's not for me, but I can see why it'd appeal to some people.

Personally I agree, I wouldn't be singing Vigil's praises if I found either Delta Green or CoC superior. I don't hate CoC, but it's naturally far more limited in what it does, and while I love Lovecraft's work, I don't like being limited to only his stuff. Someone should've made a HtV Night Horrors for Lovecraft monsters during the big Lovecraft boom when his stuff went public domain.

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Archiving the Signal: Preserving Denpa Culture in the Digital Age (Presentation / Podcast)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yhpkv_AjDbA

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>>98410441
The player mostly used pictures of Kikyo as references though we did get a few gag drawings I could post.
>>98410572
It was never really determined if he was already inverted and that's part of the reason he awakened in such a bad way or if they were trying to pull him that way. He definitely straddled the line due to how many curses he was under. I do tend to run Nephandus without rape-murder though, more as demon/Wyrm/Spectre worshipping evil mages who want to rule/destroy the world (Circle one). Living like The Hills Have Eyes was never my preference on how to run them. There's lesser monsters for that. The BBEG of one of my campaigns was a Nephandus who took over PENTEX from the canon board back in the nineties. He was an affable family man and hammy supervillain who had learned about the extent of kindred control of society then learned the full general scope of the Wyrm, became convinced the world was doomed and his essential motive is just to 'ride it all the way down the drain'. Cheerful, respectful, monstrous bastard despoiling the world for profit who loved being the center of attention.

Is the Technocracy to blame for the fact that nothing ever happens?

>>98410133
Tried to make a new Thaumaturgy Path with ChatGPT. Had to repeat to it thrice to use OWoD rules tho. The path is made so Tremeres can find Leylines, Caerns, Nodes, Freeholds, Haunts, Tears in the Gauntlet, and whatever produces energy in a localized area and use it to power the blood sorcerer.

Calling it the Path of Geomantic Subjugation

1 Dot: Sense the Pulse
System: Difficulty 4. Each success extends your sensory tracking radius by 100 yards. A single success tracks the proximity of a leyline, caern, node, or haunt. Three or more successes reveal the exact spiritual resonance type and its rating.

2 Dots: Siphon the Flow
System: Difficulty 5. While standing inside a mystical site, roll Willpower+Path rating. Each success instantly drains 1 point of ambient energy from the location, turning it into 1 Blood Point in your blood pool. This power can bypass your generation's maximum per-turn spend limit. The site's background rating drops by 1 for the next 24 hours.

>>98411387
Actually the changelings and the traditions are to blame for that, one spammed boredom bombs until it became an aspect of humanity and the traditions created the technocracy and the spiral towards science. The Technocracy kind of just followed the momentum

>>98411398
3 Dots: Territorial Dominion
System: Difficulty 6. The caster spends 1 additional Willpower point to activate this power. For the remainder of the scene, ambient spiritual currents twist to assault intruders inside the area up to a 20-yard radius outside of it. Any hostile target caught within the zone suffers a dice pool penalty equal to the caster's successes on all Physical actions and Supernatural activation rolls.

4 Dots: Bleed the Locus
System: Difficulty 7. Roll Willpower+Path rating to permanently scar a node, caern, or haunt. If successful, you permanently drain 1 background dot from the site and attune it to yourself. In return, you are supercharged while inside the area: you gain a +2 dice bonus to all Discipline dice pools, and you heal 1 level of Lethal damage or Bashing damage automatically each turn without needing to spend blood. The effect lasts as long as the vampire unlives, or the area is cleansed from its taint. The zone can be attuned to more kindred until it reaches 0.

5 Dots: Artificial Nexus
System: Difficulty 8. Over a 3-night extended ritual, the caster spends 5 Blood Points and 1 permanent Willpower point. Roll Willpower+Path rating. Success creates a permanent, artificial Node, Caern, or Haunt background at the targeted location with a rating equal to your successes (maximum 5). This zone is automatically attuned to the caster as if under the effect of Bleed the Locus. This functions as a permanent hub for your other path powers, but its geographic scar immediately acts as an open flare to local Werewolves, Mages, or Wraiths.

>>98410509
I dread combat in most ST systems, mass combat i don't even want to read.

>>98411167
No, he screws the rules too often.

The Long and Violent War Against Your Soul
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z7tCN4qOoRs

>>98411237
GURPS Monser Hunters still unbeaten. Even if you need to use the sidekick rules if you want to curb the powerlevel.

>>98411434
>>98411398
The old Tremere books either House or Low Clans maybe? Has stuff for that already.

Is there a way to give a building itself the Arcane trait or to just somehow make everyone in a city perception filter it? Working on a dumb idea

>>98411186
kaiba is also inventing his own technology and dealing with both aliens (although questionably...) and spirits

the only convention he would not cater to at all are the Progenitors... they probably didn't wanted to make dragons for him

>>98411508
Do you need rules for that?

>hunting a half-dozen fomori hiding in random rooms in a motel
>dip into the Penumbra
>the motel exists as a wireframe
>three rooms look wonky
>talk to a Weaver spirit working on the wireframe to confirm
>give it a point of Gnosis basically just for being willing to talk to me
>"Logging interaction"
That spirit better not be telling all the other spirits I'm a mark

>>98411540
Where the fuck are all those fomori coming from?
Looks like there are at least half a dozen everywhere you look.

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The Cultural Power of Whimsy: It’s More Than A Trendy TikTok Term
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vJ5w-HPCNVQ

>>98411398
>>98411434
Slopposting is the worst form of shitposting

>>98411387
Yes.

>>98411398
>>98411434
>using ChatGPT to do anything rules-based
You're a fucking idiot.

>>98411508
Doesn't really sound like something that'd need rules, more like a narrative situation. But if you want to do it like a player I could see why you'd want something to point at for the ST.

>>98411540
>"Logging interaction"
I think it just fucking did anon.

>>98410762
>>98410777
>>98410814
I just don't believe anything good can come out under Paradox. Even if the devs are "real fans" who knew it before 5th edition, or actually good developers, they still have to answer to the current White Wolf guys, who will find ways to ruin it.

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A Monster Romance Deep Dive
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HlRaJuJC5AM

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>>98410777
It was always going to be bad the second it was going to be based on gWoD instead of the original game. You say "extenuating circumstances" as if those are excuses for those circumstances existing to begin with. Even the basic outline of the game was shit and showed that they never at any point had any understanding for what made the original game good.

Calling it a sequel when it doesn't have continuity of developers, setting, system, genre, playstyle, or anything really whatsoever other than the decree of someone that happens to hold the rights is true bottomfeeding stolen valor type shit. It was *always* a cashgrab move.

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>there's something off about this new cliath...
>but i can't quite put a paw on why...

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>>98411589
>>98411693
If you could go spam your shitty YouTube front page feed somewhere else, that'd be grand.

>>98411711
Looks like a normal children of gaia to me.

>>98411371
to me nephandus, especially higher arete ones, don't make sense unless they are nihilistic misanthropes that either see suffering as sacred as bliss and should be spread and shared just as joy is, or consider suffering not even a consideration or a 'thing' the same way human life and sacredness is also not a 'thing' and can and should be reduced down to its most base components to prove and show how worthless it is.

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>>98411681
This is the honest fucking truth. Anyone that is a fan of the old stuff will still be saddled with strict rules as to the content and character of whatever they are working on, including quotas for "marginalized groups", no-no words, the setting having to be based entirely in Paracuck's New And Improved Flavor™ Gay™ World of Darkness™, and so on and so forth.

I'd be incredibly surprised if a developer doesn't get an attached gynoid commissar from Paracuck's central office marketing department to answer to, who itself answers to the human resource committee.

>>98411711
>steve are you OK?

>Yet none can identify this pack, or have heard of Adonai’s rescuers, who acted in a manner so uncharacteristic of Sabbat who come across Kindred slumbering in torpor. None of the antitribu, who strode toughened and defiant into the European fronts and the packs circling London seemed to be Blooded by the Code. My sire claims the fragments of Samiel’s words they spout are genuine, but he asks the same question I do: shouldn’t a true Warrior know the Code by heart?
>If this is the Adonai of old, torpor has tempered his brusque demeanor. This Adonai was subtle at first, keeping his new brood small until House Goratrix vanished beneath the Mexican sands. Then he adopted mass Embrace tactics, until Salubri antitribu were a common sight in Sabbat packs. In these nights, their numbers have grown to eclipse ours, and they have garnered a foothold in the Black Hand, the paramilitary secret society of the Sabbat. Their occult prowess grows by the day, wielding countermagics with talent, acting as terrifying shock troops at the head of battle columns. Formerly regarded by the Sabbat as mere weapons to be pointed towards the Camarilla, the former Warrior Caste has slowly carved out a place of true respect.
Huh, since when did the Sabbat have standardised training in countermagics? I thought the Tremere had that shit on lockdown even harder than everything else related to Thaumaturgy. Probably related to the shenanigans implied by questioning the Adonai story.

>>98411743
I see it like this. All Awakened, or at least almost all Awakened, have some positive conception of value. They imagine things could be better, or at least better for themselves. The Nephandus either completely lacks that positive conception of value or is so deranged in what they imagine 'Good' to look like that it no longer resembles even an alien mage's worldview. But there's a lot of ways that perspective can manifest. A Cenobite, which is basically what you're describing, is one. So is the 'Hills Have Eyes' cannibal dog-molestor freaks the Book of Madness tells you to play. But an Infernalist who really, truly, does not care if the world goes to Hell as long as he gets his pound of flesh is one also, he too is a 'nihilist' in his way. The BBEG of my game was probably the closest thing you could have to a 'good' character with an inverted Avatar, in that he was a fundamentally good person who gave in to despair and decided living it up as Rome burned was the only 'good' that could come of a world of darkness where vampires run everything and the Triat is broken. That too is 'nihilism', made only the barely bit nobler by the fact that deep, deep down under all the global pollution and turning people into Fomor for kicks and conjuring Banes into existence for fun, he still would prefer things were different. He just doesn't think they ever can be.

But hey, he was still at Arete 8. Maybe final enlightenment for him would mean guttering out that last little spark of humanity.

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"One needs to have a plan," someone said who was turned away into the shadows and who I had believed was sleeping or dead. "Imagine," he said, "all the flesh that is eaten: the teeth tearing into it, the tongue tasting its savour, and the hunger for that taste. Now take away that flesh," he said, "Take away the teeth, and the tongue, the taste, and the hunger. Take away everything as it is. That was my plan, my own special plan for this world."
I listened to these words and yet I did not wonder if this creature whom I had thought sleeping or dead would ever approach his vision even in his deepest dreams or his most lasting death because I had heard of such plans, such visions. And I knew they did not see far enough. But what was demanded in a way of a plan needed to go beyond tongue, and teeth, and hunger, and flesh, beyond the bones, and the very dust of bones, and the wind that would come to blow the dust away.
And so I began to envision a darkness that was long before the dark of night and a strangely shining light that owed nothing to the light of day.

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>>98411787
Toreador detected.
Also, are we posting art with our posts again? I don't remember why we stopped, but I thought that was cool.

>>98411017
Ascension is a bit of a downer ending though. The character achieves their enlightenment and becomes one with the universe and all that jazz, but at the cost of leaving behind the world and everything that the players have become attached to. If a character just peaces out to enjoy Nirvana after an entire game of fighting for their Tradition and against the Technocracy and trying to stop the Nephandi from ruining the world for everyone, then it just sort of feels like that character is quitting the fight.

>>98411774
ah fair makes sense with it explained a little more, i was just thinking he sounded too much like a 'regular' evil rich guy in WoD.

Nephandi have always intrigued me and was the first bits of lore that got me into mage, especially the goatkids faction as iv had iv had cool ideas about a widderslainte character with baphomet as his avatar and interpretation of his own holy spirit, combining the evil in his nature with the goodness he obtains with God, Wisdom, and The Savior. basically a mix of hermetic, ecstatic, and chorister, maybe a little verbena too.

no sure how connected hed be to the actual baphies craft of the nephandi but theyd definitely want to recruit him and hed be interested in their practice and philosophy but would draw the line at outright human trafficking and mass murder. the red thorn dedicates would also be interesting craft to associate with him.

>>98411798
It's funny. I have sat at that exact dockside, in the sun, with a case of beers bought just around the corner and two dear friends which I now rarely have any contact with.

realistically any notion of a masquerade or veil is completely destroyed once an HD camera is in everyones pocket

what does a post-masquerade WoD look like? I doubt Total Vampire Death is feasible, even if they could take out all the major power players and antediluvians they are like cockroaches and can go to other realms like the shadow lands to wait the worst of it out if need be and the few vampires in hiding will thrive without competition and will probably only sire one childe ever.

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>>98411821
Mine was the villain of my longrunning Exalted vs World of Darkness campaign. His name was Stanford Obadiah and his backstory is he was an all-American, handsome, high school football, intelligent, business major who one night at college saw something vaguely human flee up a brick wall. He found a class mate collapsed and got him help, and this started his investigation that led to him breaking the masquerade bad. He not only learned vampires exist, he got a good grasp of their scale of influence (though not the details). He realized that mankind was enslaved by parasitic immortals and had been for all of human history. In that singular moment he thought of a line from his favorite book, Paradise Lost. "The mind is its own place, that of itself can make a Heaven of Hell, a Hell of Heaven". This shift in worldview upon realizing vampiric existence was his Awakening. He summoned a devil and demanded it teach him magic, and the demon Mephistopheles was his mentor in the art. From there he would eventually find a Stargazer woman called the Oracle who taught him the spirit ways, and his true mentor one day took him into Malfeas and showed him 'the Wyrm'. Realizing the true scale of how fucked the cosmos was only hardened his resolve. He ended up joining PENTEX as middle management, worked his way up the ranks and got a seat on the Board for himself and several powerful supernaturals on his payroll (two Fifth Generation Methusaleh and a Rank 6 Black Spiral Dancer). His overall motivation is he knows the world is doomed and believes "In Hell the devil is the only one having a good time". So he does what makes him happy, which is...being a Saturday Morning Cartoon villain.
(1/2)

>>98411868
>what does a post-masquerade WoD look like? I doubt Total Vampire Death is feasible, even if they could take out all the major power players and antediluvians they are like cockroaches and can go to other realms like the shadow lands to wait the worst of it out if need be and the few vampires in hiding will thrive without competition and will probably only sire one childe ever.
Also if things get too hot there's always them going fuck it like Crucible and smashing all the infrastructure as a great big fuck you before they get lit up.

>>98411868
Image-editing software, image-generating models and the impact that social media has had on our brains says otherwise. By the time that everyone had access to a camera phone with an internet connection, the world was already post-truth.

>>98411872
For all his depths in motivation (and I left out half of the story) he was ultimately a character along the lines of Megamind or the Monarch from Venture Bros. A hammy tropey supervillain who got off on pageantry and excess and whose opening act was convincing the teenaged circle he'd blasted their parents into space on an experimental disposable rocket (he hadn't, it was a ruse to shoot them into space).

He was affable and liked contrasting being a good boss and family man with how horrible his other actions were, giving the First Teams dental, that sort of thing. He was also the Abyssal's dad. His son Dennis was a total edgelord to a comical extreme, and Obadiah believed his son would truly understand him. He loved his daughter and wife, but they'd never understand why he did the things he did. He believed his son would get it, would get him. So he turned his wife and daughter into Fomor and was going to show Dennis when Dennis, bored at his dad's workplace, went snooping in off-limits areas and found them. Dear old dad showed up and it turned into a very poor explaination Dennis just shouted over, so an enraged Obadiah killed him with Wyrmfire and threw his body in the dumpster out back. Where as fate would have it, he received the Black Exaltation.

Dennis, now going by 'Black Hole Sun', is an intolerable edgelord whose a total poser with a heart of gold. He's basically a shonen protagonist. Upon realizing his son survived Obadiah's main motivation became becoming the 'villain' to his son's hero in the hopes of
A) Achieving shits and/or giggles and
B) Gradually convincing his son of his nihilistic worldview so he'll join him in the same grandiose evil mischief he himself enjoys and they can "ride the world to the bottom" as father and son.

>>98411881
holy shit lol i love this character, like a super villain darth vader parody

>>98411868
Condensed midwittery.

>>98411879
that might make it easier for people to swallow vampires being real when compared to all the other crazy shit that is real but being mixed in with fake shit to discredit it. many people would just rationalize vampires as a new weird disease the government created or aliens.

>>98411868
I disagree with the first statement because the advance of technology also created some of the most unaware people on the Earth

>>98411890
coming from someone who just had breakfast this morning.

>>98411892
Even if the masquerade is broken, within two to three months, people would get bored of the supernatural. The main people suffering consequences would be the government, especially if they dare to implement anti-supernatural policies that inconvenience the everyday lives of normal people. People would insist that stopping them from becoming a ghoul or a vampire is a breach of the first amendment and anyone who actually cares about the supernatural for more than the first few months would be laughed at as a mentally ill lunatic who can't move on.

Nothing would change.

>>98411885
The game was pitched as having a Venture Bros tone, that is, silly characters in serious situations and consequences. It was a homage to old saturday morning cartoons like Power Rangers, Street Sharks, Mummies Alive, Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, Sailor Moon, that kind of thing. So PENTEX became my primary antagonist and Obadiah my main villain. He was the one who found the other Exalted and conspired for them to find Dennis, who was by this point living in the sewer and doing solo man terror raids on PENTEX facilities and livestreaming them on Twitch. The game lasted several years and about 70 sessions, it was fun.

>>98411899
>anyone who actually cares about the (((supernatural))) for more than the first few months would be laughed at as a mentally ill lunatic who can't move on
EPSTEINEPSTEINEPSTEINEPSTEIN

>>98411771
>since when did the Sabbat have standardised training in countermagics?
Maybe members of the Black Hand has taught them. I wouldn't be surprised if the Assamites have some funny tricks for hunting wizards. Or maybe they kidnapped a sorcerer and made him teach them.
The Tremere can't stop every kindred everywhere from learning a ward or counterspell.

Anyway I wouldn't assume it's standardised just because the Salubri antitribu tend to learn it.

>>98411771
>since when did the Sabbat have standardised training in countermagics?
Where does it say they do? This seems to concern the Salubri antitribu in the Black Hand specifically. Where is this even from?

>>98411983
V20 lore of the bloodlines.

>>98411983
>Then he adopted mass Embrace tactics, until Salubri antitribu were a COMMON SIGHT IN SABBAT PACKS. In these nights, their numbers have grown to eclipse ours, and they have garnered a foothold in the Black Hand, the paramilitary secret society of the Sabbat. Their occult prowess grows by the day, WIELDING COUNTERMAGICS with talent, acting as terrifying shock troops at the head of battle columns.

>>98411990
You realize that the third sentence could refer back to the second sentence rather than the first, right? And nothing about it suggests that it's standardized or that it refers to anything other than the Salubri antitribu, not the entirety of the Sabbat. But after the destruction of the Tremere Antitribu the Sabbat obviously needed to adapt, and it is easy to see how this came about.

>>98411868
Thanks to AI, video is now obsolete
>Masquerade breach? Nah that was just a harmless prankster generating AI videos. Trust us, cattle

>>98412001
>The paramilitary secret society that has less a thousand members has battle columns.
Then there's the fact that the following sentence focuses on the Salubri in general as as perceived by the Sabbat. I think it's disingenuous to frame the sentence that features countermagics as being exclusively about the ones in the Black Hand, when the focus of that entire paragraph is on the general Sabbat Salubri, just because that one sentence only uses pronouns instead of directly stating "the Sabbat Salubri."

I think it makes perfect sense that the most dedicated Tremere haters of the setting might develop and wield countermagic.

>>98411508
Higher levels of Obfuscate lets you hide entire buildings. I think that's how the Tremere hide their Vienna chantry from normies.

As for MtA, you can very much give buildings an arcane score by making them sanctums/laboratories. Normally those are the size of room or so, but higher dots in Sanctum would allow you to have a whole building with an Arcane score, in addition to other bonuses from that background.

>>98411693
>>98411589
>actually tried getting through these
thak you, now I hate women

>>98412068
Where did you get that quote from? Because that sounds odd and no-one said anything like that.

>>98412280
>Their occult prowess grows by the day, WIELDING COUNTERMAGICS with talent, acting as terrifying shock troops at the head of battle columns.
If that sentence refers exclusively to the Antitribu Salubri of the Black Hand, then the Black Hand has battle columns.

>>98412326
Unless, of course, the Black Hand heads the battle columns of the Sabbat.

>>98412337
Since I need to post the entire thing every single time to avoid you selectively forgetting what has previously been posted:
>Then he adopted mass Embrace tactics, until Salubri antitribu were a common sight in Sabbat packs. In these nights, their numbers have grown to eclipse ours, and they have garnered a foothold in the Black Hand, the paramilitary secret society of the Sabbat. Their occult prowess grows by the day, wielding countermagics with talent, acting as terrifying shock troops at the head of battle columns. Formerly regarded by the Sabbat as mere weapons to be pointed towards the Camarilla, the former Warrior Caste has slowly carved out a place of true respect.
The Black Hand, which is described as a paramilitary secret society, heads the battle columns of the Sabbat? Not much of a secret society then.

>>98412342
I think the Black Hand, as a paramilitary organization, has battle columns. However, if the Black Hand is part of the Sabbat, then necessarily members of the Black Hand participate in Sabbat actions, meaning they also lead more general Sabbat columns.

>>98412342
The Black Hand does in fact lead Sabbat battle columns, yes. They are a secret society, but their existence itself is not exactly secret. They're a well-known and well-established part of the Sabbat, and has been for centuries. You just don't know who is a member or what they do before they show up.

I also want to stress that 1000 is a very big number when it comes to kindred, including cainites, and that Sabbat "battle columns" are regularly just fucking shovelheads or mass-embraced herds that, if too many survive a happening, are either culled or have to fight eachother until a manageable number remain.

So in the end, the Salubri antitribu have Schrodinger's countermagic. It may just be used by the Salubri antitribu who have a foothold in the Black Hand, or it may be used by the Salubri antitribu who have become a common sight in Sabbat packs. There's no way to know for sure, since the sentence that mentions countermagic just uses pronouns instead of specifically referring to common Sabbat pack Salubri antitribu, or foothold in the Black Hand antitribu.

Not a vamp lore scholar. But how do Sabbat embrace a hundred retarded shovelheads and have them actually like, fight for them?

>>98412420
shovelheads are very hungry and confused (from having their skull beaten in before the embrace) when they come out the sabbat cares less for the masquarade as they know that the camarilla will cover their shit up for them

so shovelheads are pretty much just burried near what they are meant to attack anyway and let lose

>>98412420
>"Go kill the assholes in thet building or I'm going to personally skin your faggot ass alive."

>>98412420
The process of concussed before their Embrace and having to dig themselves out of a grave with their bare hands while still going through the mind-altering euphoria of their Embrace shatters the sanity of a lot of shovelheads and leaves them as bloodthirsty borderline wights. All the Sabbat needs to do is assert their dominance over them with some browbeating and actual beatings and point them in the right direction, sometimes with the assistance of Dominate.

>>98412420
They have them cause mayhem inside, or close to, the domains of their enemies, they're not supposed to be intelligent weapons let alone part of the Sabbat, but they can be directed with brute force and Disciplines.
They can become True Sabbat by surviving, inflicting losses on said enemies, proving they have a suitable temperament to further contribute to the Sabbat, and finally receiving the relevant Ritae and teachings to join a Pack.

>>98412408
I mean it is not that big of a deal, it's just a throwaway sentence regarding the Salubri antitribu's position in the Sabbat, likely meant to establish that
>the Salubri antitribu is a not-insignificant part of the Sabbat
>the Salubri antitribu has wormed its way into positions of power (such as the Black Hand) after having previously been regarded as brutes
>the Salubri antitribu have some form of countermagic that they make use of.
>this happened or became relevant after House Goratrix was raped.
It's also important to remember that this is all in the Salubri bloodline's section of the book, so the assumption should be that this all primarily concerns the Salubri, but yes, it is not a particularly great paragraph.

>>98412420
most shovelheads are by design in a hunger frenzy when (or rather if) they manage to dig themselves out so the sabbat just let them run amok

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>>98412420
In addition to what >>98412436 said, it should be noted that the Lasombra are often at least partially responsible for these mass-embraces, and Dominate is their bread and butter, even though Obtenebration is what they are more famous for. And the groups are regularly lead by Brujah or Ventrue, the former which has Presence and the latter which has both Presence and Dominate.

Shovelheads are very, very hungry when they wake up, and regularly disoriented and angry, and have often been "recruited" from entire street gangs, drug addicts, or mentally ill homeless people. They are pointed in the right direction and told to kill. They are threatened or dominated or influenced with presence until they comply, or they are killed for being weak.

Some shovelheads "make it out" if they distinguish themselves, but they are generally *not* considered "real" cainites. A shovelhead who survives the battles and finds his bearing afterward may find himself in a situation in which he has to kill and drink his previously closest friends or be set on fire, because the Sabbat may not give a shit about the Masquerade (at least on paper) but they also see the issue with too many fledglings running around.

>>98412490
this is honestly such a peak character and backstory

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>>98412450
I think this is also an important point, yeah. The Sabbat knows that the Camarilla (or whomever) has to do clean-up, so they will do a mass-embrace somewhere and just let the Camarilla know and then they have to show up and try to contain the situation, while the Sabbat sets up an ambush or just sit back and laugh.

The Sabbat are, first and foremost, assholes.

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>>98412506
A lot of the 2e/Revised character outlines/concepts are actually fucking great. It is very rare that they are one-dimensional at all, and even characters that you'd think would be controversial (at least today) read as actual persons, not label-collecting caricatures.

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>>98412532
It's fascinating how Brujah got the reputation of the commie clan when these are their sample characters.

>>98412553
>had a stint in Juvie, likely surrounded by nogs and spics
>1 measly dot in Brawl
Press X to doubt.

>>98412563
Meant to reply to >>98412532 but while we're at it, wouldn't vamps in general be against LGBT shit on account of the insane rates of blood-transmitted diseases among their kind?

>>98412553
>>98412532
absolute kino, modern wod could never ever. It shows a nowadays profoundly missing sense of character for the hippie retard punks of yesteryear to have been able to somewhat fairly represent actual nazi tier racists without even any snarky comments about how evil they are or something.

Really puts into perspective every single time I read "W-we've matured since then, we were just kids back then.." Yeah, and you had more spine and integrity.

>>98412553
It really is, and it is one of the things that really grinds my gears with modern conceptions of Brujah. I have absolutely no qualms with the Brujah having the Anarchists and the Communists, but the Brujah is supposed to be rebellious and radical and span the entire gamut of periphery ideologies, recontextualized by vampiric undeath.

IIRC there's even a blurb somewhere about how some of them embrace people that would have been their ideological enemies in life, if they are earnest/radical in their beliefs, just to shake up their world-view.

I know it gets to the point of just the power of plot but what would be a reasonable bloodpool for the 3rd generation?

>>98412578
>It shows a nowadays profoundly missing sense of character for the hippie retard punks of yesteryear to have been able to somewhat fairly represent actual nazi tier racists without even any snarky comments about how evil they are or something.
It still shows up, just a tiny bit subtler. See "attacks on minorities" for example. Most people today don't even know about the Zebra Murders, and those weren't special, they just got a catchy media name.

>>98412569
Vampires have embraced entire centuries worth of homophobes.

>>98412563
1 dot in Brawl is about what you should expect from a kid that's learned to fight on the streets, but it could be stretched to 2 dots if it's been a semi-regular occurrence. But yeah the more I think about it I think that a point should probably be moved from Streetwise to Brawl - but he's also described as more of a leader than an actual brawling skinhead, so he might just be meant to fit that archetype more.

>>98412569
I am not sure it really matters that much to them, especially today (it was noted at one point in the 90's that there were even blood hunts for fags due to the AIDS scare), and we should remember that vampires aren't immune to cognitive dissonance. So I would say "In general yes but practically not necessarily".

The main problem is that it poisons the cattle and leads to potential masquerade breaches or the CDC (or equivalent) showing up to investigate outbreaks. The vamps themselves are immune but if there's suddenly a string of AIDS cases with people asking questions about how when they have not had sex i 8 years, that immediately gives the vamps inquisition flashbacks.

>>98412598
I used the VtR 1e chart and gave them 100/15. If you want, give them a discipline or elder power to boost their capacity by whatever makes sense to you. Even if it's something insane like "multiply by fortitude."

>>98412598
Like >>98412635
says, 100 is a good bullshit number, before any custom powers that further expand the blood pool.

I'm probable overthinking but here goes anyway: a character who runs through a doorway trapped with a steel tripwire would just fall down while a vampire using Celerity would take damage equal to the number of dots they were pumping at the time. Does that make sense?

>>98412715
As if that would stop me.
*rips through the tripwire in Brujah*

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>>98412600
But anon, "attacks on minorities" is absolutely something Skinheads tended to engage in at the time. And I don't say that as a point of slander, but as a point of fact, having known a lot of skinheads.

The part doesn't read as a "snarky comment about how evil they are", but as a part of a legitimate character instead of a caricature that embodies everything the writer hates. It shows at least a vague understanding of differences of opinion and the human condition that most modern "writers" seem to simply not have.

And if it's not evident with the Skinhead, it is absolutely obvious with the Confederate and the Small-Town Sheriff. These are not necessarily "good people", but the Confederate is still described as a knowledgeable expert rather than an ignorant hateful racist trumptard, and the Small-Town Sheriff's motivation for the skull-cracking is described as wanting to keep order for the decent people, rather than being le heckin' fascist pig that gets off on killing people or whatever. The Skinhead is described as genuinely competent and isn't just Brujah, but a "stereotypical Brujah".

No political "side" should be glazed in any way, and characters should be written as actual living, thinking people that are at the very least heroes of their own stories. But there is a particular subset of people involved with the industry that on a basic level seem to be incapable of the theory of mind necessary to write anything of substance.

>>98412532
>skinhead
>'kino'
>rubi
>cue gnashing and wailing, dei, woke
Unironic racebait bullshit is bullshit no matter what angle you take it from, and I've made such characters in the past.

>>98412715
I'd call it 1 dot of unsoakable lethal, and they fall prone.
I think more than that would serve only to punish using their abilities.
Now a wire at neck level? Lets get wild.

>>98412758
>unironically defending Rudi
Lol lmao. >>>/reddit/

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>>98412715
I'd say that makes sense as a call. I am not sure as to the balance of it but I think it absolutely makes sense and I'd take no umbrage with it in play.

The real question would be what kind of damage it would be considered. Because at the end of the day it's "just" a steel wire, and honestly the odds are pretty good that whatever the wire itself is attached to would break before it cleaves through any vampire (or human, for that matter) bone.

The difference being that "cut down to the bone" could be utterly devastating for a human, but a minor inconvenience to a vamp.

>>98412787
>defending racebait nonsense
Where?

>>98412749
VRGH this is just sovl overload.. and yeah this is kind of what I meant, I don't even really understand what that other anon was trying to say about attacks on minorities or whatever.

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>>98412758
The fact that you categorize the Skinhead into the same tier as Rudi marks you as either completely dishonest or utterly retarded.
>I've made such characters in the past.
I don't believe you and if true they were likely complete trash.

>>98412749
>"Blood for the blood god, dude. Blood for the blood god."
I'm surprised they didn't get hit with a lawsuit.

>>98412788
My logic was "More Celecity dots = more speed = more momentum = more damage when you hit the cheese wire of impromptu pedicure." If I wanted to get really autistic I'd calculate it as falling damage based on how many yards the vamp would've moved if they hadn't snagged upon it.

>The real question would be what kind of damage it would be considered. Because at the end of the day it's "just" a steel wire, and honestly the odds are pretty good that whatever the wire itself is attached to would break before it cleaves through any vampire (or human, for that matter) bone.
>The difference being that "cut down to the bone" could be utterly devastating for a human, but a minor inconvenience to a vamp.
Fair considerations. Tripping and falling on your ass during a pitched fight is still bad news but I digress.

>>98412758
Skinhead isnt offensive because taking racial superiority rhetoric & applying it to supernatural creatures like vampires make sense. The Sabbat & Camarilla think they are above the kine. Theres even themes like, only Embracing & Siring those people you deem worth it etc. Rudi on the other hand is nothing but contradictions. These ideologies that the creators have & forced upon v5 with characters like Rudi come from deep set contradictions & double think in their own mind. Islam is anti LGBTQ, but since the writer is pro Islam & pro LGBTQ they cannot comprehend that these two separate things they support, do not support each other. Rudi as a character suffers for this, as opposed by Skinhead who'se ideologies are complimentary to kindred superiority ideology.

>>98412758
this is because calling yourself a queer muslim rights activist gets normie retards clapping like a seal whilst calling yourself a honest to god skinhead orator is incredibly transgressive and will get you banned from venues and shit. This alone is incredibly based. It's like reverse virtue signaling. I can guarantee you a single character concept like this would immediatly have all of reddit shitting their diapers. It's radioactive for PR and corporate. And that's punk, that's somebody who believes in their shit as opposed to a soulless suit. Obviously it wasn't AS radioactive back then as it was today, but it still made people call them satanists and edgelords, despite them obviously being very liberal for their time.

This and framing are the difference. If Rudi was framed as a deluded or naive brujah (the most charitable interpretation of him) then that would be cooler. It's not that Rudi as a character can't work, the description just seems a little too positive.

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Does enchanting a weapon with Prime to deal aggravate damage work on firearms or do you have to enchant each bullet separately? What makes more sense both balance wise and lore wise?

>>98412837
>the description just seems a little too positive.
Don't undersell how fucking retarded Rudi's writing is. Dude got Embraced maybe last week and he's already a big shot, he's a Thinblood that makes elders quake in their expensive moccasins in fear that he might passive-aggressively lecture them on intersectionality if they're le heckin mysoginistic.

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Y'know what, fuck it. I'm gonna post it and dare the retarded tourist to defend it.

>>98412868
Anon, it's magic. Both work and have examples in the books. Any additional requirements you try to press the players with will be both arbitrary and against the spirit of the game.

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>>98412758
let me known when I can spend 5 dots to call a skinhead army to oppress minorities with

>>98412868
Mage the Ascension becomes a nightmare when you try to nail down rules like this so >>98412919 is right. Just do what feels right and makes the best experience for the table. In almost every case, that's going to involve enchanting the gun, but there's times when enchanting individual bullets is going to be more in line with the outcome that the player wants.

>>98412920
To be fair, that "army" would realistically get folded by a single guy with proper training and an automatic weapon. The type of people it's calling aren't known for bravery in the face of real world consequences.

>>98412920
Why is this a distinct power and not a just the allies/cult background?
>>98412868
Either or, really. It doesn't really matter mechanically since the result will be more or less the same with the only difference being details. Enchanting the gun would mean any bullets you put in it will deal agg, while enchanting the bullets means any gun they're in would deal agg, but they will run out. You can just use Prime 2 with Matter in which case the enchantment will be temporary, or Prime 3/4 for a permanent enchantment, which would make a proper wonder.

>>98412490
>Lasombra are often at least partially responsible for these mass-embraces
wow really I was under the impression that they were the most selective clan

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>>98412902
This shit makes me more angry than the muslim LGBTWTFBBQ angle, because the latter at least genuinely exists even if it makes no sense (cognitive dissonance is a hell of a drug and most "muslims" haven't even touched the Quran). Rudi has zero substance, and is only a transparent sue that consists of a bundle of disparate contradictions. Rudi gets flak because the concept is so flagrantly idiotic, but other offenders like Carna or gWoD's version of Theo Bell are little better. And they're all just a symptom of a wider disease of people just refusing (or being incapable of) thinking of people wearing the 'wrong' team jersey as living, thinking beings.

>>98412972
They're selective and do the whole ''ruin your life'' when they want to make ''true'' sabbat cainites.

I like Rudi simply because he reads like a character written ironically by a post ironic shitposter that's been irony poisoned
Simple as

>>98412984
>most "muslims" haven't even touched the Quran
Honestly true for most religions in the world and their holy texts, especially Christianity.

>>98412984
What the fuck? Is that the modern depiction of Theo Bell? He's supposed to be a roided up giganigga, not Steve Urkel with AIDS.

Rudi is based on a legit gay muslim d*nish friend the supreme gentileman had, who was afraid of coming out to his family (with reason).

>>98412957
then it wouldn't be 5 dots

>>98412994
I'll disagree here and say that mostly applies to Christianity/Islam/Judaism and most others would know their religion more but it's not like this is something we can compare objectively

>>98412963
>Why is this a distinct power and not a just the allies/cult background? Loresheets give you all sorts of advantages (and some drawbacks). From resources to allies to changing any die to 10 after rolling it. iirc there is an anarch loresheet that gives you a bunch of brujah that follow you around but will abandon you if you throw them into situations haphazardly or start acting like a "cape"

>>98412996
Sorry chud but masculinity is bad and werewolves just shouldn't have visible muscles at all. I've always wondered how these people can square the circle of hating any man that's isn't feminized to some extent when barafags exist

>>98412997
That would be fine if the creature they wrote wasn't a marry sue with a magical teleporting personal army. The real life guy didn't even have the clout or perspnal influence to defy their parents, yet some the same guy is supposedly gonna be able to stand up to Elder Vampires in VtM?

>>98413008
Ahh shit I forgot to seperate the greentext from my reply... Im retarded but I am also on this weird medication because my insurance wont cover corporate sorcery...

>>98413010
>square the circle
Anon, cognitive dissonance is the Rule here. The same people doing this were drooling over Leon Kennedy when RE9 came out. They drool over masculinity just as much as they hate it.

>>98412972
They are (usually), but again, I cannot stress this enough - shovelheads are not considered "people". Also, the Lasombra are often not responsible for the mass embracing, they just direct it.

When they make shovelheads, this is generally not considered.. for lack of a better word, "adoption". Out of shovelheads that survive and are initiated into the Sabbat, many still end up as Caitiff/Panders, because it is entirely possible that the sabbats (Sabbatians?) that embraced them have no idea who did it.
>This shovelhead distinguished himself in battle, and when we pitted them against eachother afterwards, he came out on top. Who embraced him?
>Not me, didn't you do it?
>Don't you fucking look at me, I don't recognize this leech. I think it was Tyrone.
>Nah it wasn't me bruh, I was' just pretendin'.
>You fucking asshole. What about you?
>Me? I don't know. Maybe?
>everyone shrugs and brings the shovelhead along for two nights of drug-fueled blood orgies before he even knows where he is and gets initiated into the Sabbat

This "right to embrace however we want" with no regard for bloodlines or who is responsible for the fledgling and so on is one of the core contentions of the Camarilla concerning the Sabbat (and the previous Anarch Revolt). The Camarilla considers it a complete breach of the Traditions and lower-level vampires are supposed to ask their elders for permission before embracing. One of the reasons the Sabbat flaunts this is entirely as a power move, a giant "fuck you we won't do what you tell us". Younger Camarilla may not consider this, but the elders absolutely do.

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>>98412984
The real Theo Bell would break this pansy-ass bitchmade foo's skinny ass in half like a Kit-Kat bar.

>>98412994
No, Islam genuinely has it the worst in terms of highest number of practitioners that do not read/comprehend their holy texts. The problem Islam has is that translating the Quran out of Arabic is new and, in some places, still controversial. Many Muslims do not know Arabic, but still "recite" the Quran in Arabic, rote memorization rather than comprehension. Not to mention pure Quranism isn't accepted in any real mainstream Muslim denominations that I know of. The Hadiths are where quite a lot of the jurisprudence comes from. The average Muslim, especially the ones who do not speak Arabic, just go along with whatever their Imam says.

>>98412996
Besides soifboi-ing him out, I really don't like what they did to Bell character-wise. They redid his whole "break from the camarilla, shoot Hardestadt in the face" thing from Gehenna, only without all the extreme circumstances that actually led up to and justified that. Which was, IIRC, the elders of the Camarilla running vampire diablerie camps to stave off the thinning of their blood. So instead, it feels like an abrupt spergout. V20 was also guilty of trying to anarchwash the shit out of Bell, combined with the even more absurd feat of him and the weird nudist Xaviar managing to defeat Karsh "swings his sword and enemies fall" in a fight. But at least Bell had the reason of "they killed his sire".

In any case, the reluctant Camarilla iceman is much more compelling than "anarch cheerleader".

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>>98413019
Didn't you know that Vampire is about living out your real life power fantasies and the power of friendship?

>>98413059
Wait, can’t they even narrow it down by looking at which clan curse the shovelhead manifests? I thought caitiff were spawned at random, not by not knowing who embraced him

>>98413110
It's always been a little vague how much of caitiffhood is random vs. the result of nobody explaining what you are to you.

>>98412972
They, along with the Tzimisce, are supposed to make up the majority of the Sabbat. They can't be THAT selective.

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>>98412994
Even if true (I'd argue that it is true in the "most but not all" sense), most religions also do not put supreme importance upon a singular book of supposedly divine origin, transcribed by the greatest human being that lived and will live in the future. To Christians, the religion exists largely outside of the Bible, even if the Bible is considered important, and is generally recognized as a collection of texts assembled by mortal men. The Torah and Talmud hold similar significance in Judaism, but are explicitly interpreted by a caste of Rabbi, the latter even being entirely about rabbinical considerations concerning Jewish law. And it's not just abrahamic religions; Hinduism draws from many spiritual sources, and Taoism is more of a cultural tradition than anything, Confucianism is considered a philosophical tradition, etc., etc.

But in Islam, the Quran is the supreme authority, and does not have internal conflict or opposing passages, because it in itself defines how it is supposed to be read, with later passages taking precedence over preceding passages.

For example, if you raise the commandment of "Thou shalt not kill" within a Christian context, there will be discussions as to the meaning of that passage in regards to other passages, as well as points brought up concerning translations and the difference between "murder" and "kill", and who this actually applies to. But in Islam, you will not find a single learned Imam that, if speaking truthfully and not practicing taqiyya, will speak against the Quran statement that apostates are to be put to death, full stop.

So yes, I agree with your statement at face value, but that statement in itself can be considered dishonest as it ignores the central issue.

>>98412996
Yeah. Picture related. Ex-Slave giganigga dedicated to the Camarilla for unlyfe.

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>>98412984
>>98413069
look how they buckbroke ourboy...

>>98410413
Genuinely just make it a Disco Elysium clone.

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>>98413007
Nah he's right. It does apply to "most" and Hindus for example are notoriously ignorant of religious matters. Many smaller religions are somewhat different because those that find their way to them usually do so precisely because they read the texts or took an active interest in the religion, rather than just being "born into it" on an ethnic and cultural level.

Even self-professed religion-larping neo-pagans are routinely profoundly retarded, happily ignoring the historical context and the spirit of the sources in favor of just making shit up.

>>98413102
>No, Islam genuinely has it the worst in terms of highest number of practitioners that do not read/comprehend their holy texts.
Anon, you've clearly never been to any american or european churches claiming to be "christian".

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>>98412749
>No political "side" should be glazed in any way, and characters should be written as actual living, thinking people that are at the very least heroes of their own stories
Hey quit having reasonable opinions. My ideological opposites are ontologically evil with no shades of grey and their way of living should be given no voice or representation in the wholesome world of playing blood-drinking allies of 21st century progressive humanism. We should print a warning on the book that this game is not meant for them. Having furniture made out of people is ok but being authoritarian and right wing is verboten.

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>>98413127
>Even self-professed religion-larping neo-pagans are routinely profoundly retarded, happily ignoring the historical context and the spirit of the sources in favor of just making shit up.
Funny that you mention that.

>>98410236
Speaking of Correspondence, something that came up in today's group discussion is whether you can apply Duration to a Correspondence Effect to make something or someone to return to the place they got yoinked from once the timer ran out?

Like yoinking stealing something for just long enough you can use it (gun, money, keys) and then have it return where you got it from at the end of the Scene. Or going on a dangerous mission where you might be captured or knocked out and having the failsafe teleport up so you'll be returned to home base at the end of the day even if somehow disabled.

>>98413138
Uh oh, we angered the Ass-Mites in the chat. Someone call the Sheriff.

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>>98413102
There's a reason Theo Bell is routinely brought up as part of the body of evidence as to how Paradox setting is not the same setting as oWoD, whether someone calls it gWoD or whatever. It is very obviously not at all the same character, and none of the actions of the one character make sense in relation to the other. All they share is a name and a skin color.

Nevermind treating both the Brujah and Gangrel, both clans almost entirely without clan structures in oWoD, as a near-monoliths acting in concert. It's all so brutally fucking stupid. Princes and Sheriffs ruling domains for hundreds of years, loyal to the Camarilla, just being like "nah the anarchs is a sect now xD", seemingly only so that they could have Anarchs be main characters and ignore the Sabbat so that the setting could be safe-edgy.

>Picture unrelated.
>just a comfy girl.

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>>98410413
I'd just make it a faux-RPG adventure game similar to Disc-
>>98410959
>>98413125
Fuck you guys.

Seriously though, it's what I'd do, and take a lot of inspiration from Bloodlines (obviously), Deus Ex, and Planescape: Torment for the "out there" stuff, and just incorporate an absolute shitton of 70's to 90's fantasy. 80's fantasy films is absolutely peak Mage inspo.

All "combat" should be resolved in narrative sequences where options are determined by your character attributes, which would incorporate your paradigm/tradition and what Spheres you have access to.

Is there a better way to write Tomb Watchers liability?

As is you've got to roll Willpower just to drink? What about crossing the street or asking the thug on the subway to turn off his music? Can a Tomb Watcher even drive a car? Big feats of daring like jumping off a cliff to save someone or to get into actual combat i understand, but I feel like a Tomb Watcher is gonna be rolling Willpower for half the actions they do the way its written right now. We need a Mummy20 with some better updates

>>98410781
No you retard, it's because there's no way to make a satisfying mechanical adaptation of Dynamic Magick in a video game. Meanwhile with a heavy narrative focus you can at least fucking try and showcasing the absurd levels of esoteric flexibility available to Mages.

>>98410298
I too saw your post in some earlier thread and you should feel free to repost the question in each thread until someone that knows the answer sees it, but I honestly think you'll have a hard time finding someone with experience.

I'd suggest trying it out but be ready to just wing it if it's not working out right. Keep things floating and get used to making calls, etc.

>>98413205
>tfw we'll never get the changeling soulslike
>or the werewolf immersive sim that's not from fucking 2008 in appearance
>or the mage disco elysium
But we CAN get the wraith VR game! Make it make sense!

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am I reading "of their own accord" right in that horribly unlucky innocents don't wind up in the hell of the seven burning seas

>>98413221
It means if some innocent stumbles into a volcano she claims them

>>98410781
I have literally never heard that "copout line" in my entire life, and it has never been the issue when it comes to realizing Mage. The problem with realizing Mage is that the number of relevant potential options absolutely explode with each dot in any one sphere.

An Elysium-style approach in an adventure game works infinitely better because each scene is a discrete interaction for which options can be presented narratively consistent with the relevant paradigm and spheres, rather than trying to create the kind of systematized approach that would be necessary in a free-roaming first-person 3D environment or in interactive combat scenarios.

I do not want to insult you, but I feel like you have no experience with Mage and just the staggering amount of options each sphere and sphere combination unlocks. It's anything from making people shit themselves to death to making their weapons hot to making them kill themselves and it has absolutely nothing to do with unlocking singular powers as in Bloodlines.

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>>98413138

>>98411508
Revised Sanctums can have their own Arcane traits and there are a bunch of Rotes scattered across the books that let you simulate Arcane.

If your ST has some way to rule AoE effects, then you can argue for making some sort of Ward (Correspondence/Entropy/Mind maybe?) that makes people accidentally not notice or dismiss the building as not worth paying attention to.

>>98413177
What's so bad about the comfy Indiana Jones wannabe Gangrel?

>>98413177
>Nevermind treating both the Brujah and Gangrel, both clans almost entirely without clan structures in oWoD, as a near-monoliths acting in concert.
Nah V5 operates more in a "almost anyone can be in any faction but majority are in x faction" way. Camarilla Brujah are Helenes, Anarch Nosferatu are Red Nosferatu, Anarch Tremere are House Ipsissimus, etc.

>>98413120
>But in Islam, the Quran is the supreme authority
Lutheranism?
Calvinism?
Anglicanism?
Evangelicalism?
Roughly a billion Christians when combined?

reminder what they're making will be sold as v6 but it's just v5.1

You know what else would work as a Disco Elysium clone? Promethean

>>98413177
Yeah, though admittedly Revised did get the ball rolling on clans flipping sects with the Gangrel leaving the Cam, which I never liked for the same reason of "they have no real formal structure".

Also
>got embraced by an ancient vampire living in a remote temple
>13th gen
Incredibly unlucky. Still a fun character though.

Is there any way for a vamp to immediately recognize another vamp? Or is it touch-and-go before it's confirmed that the weirdo walking down the street is a "fellow vamp"? It has never occurred to me to ask before and I am not sure if it's ever addressed anywhere.

>>98413297
Only in Requiem, otherwise Auspex or some Blood Sorcery doohickery.

>>98413297
Nah you need something like Auspex or I think in V5 Protean's first rank also does this.
But vampires can't tell instinctively another is a vampire, unless another person has very low humanity and looks basically like a corpse

>>98413212
I honestly don't know how you could write that weakness without running into this exact problem.
I would probably add something about an action that directly upholds Ma'at (based on your current Balance) shouldn't require a roll
Other than that I guess establishing some base line like "riding car is fine, street race is not".

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>>98410413
FPP RPG immsim, hub based, scenes and plot is structured like the Way of the Samurai games, The game follows the Virual Adept paradigm aesthetically.

The core idea is basically, give the player console access obfuscated by an interesting UI.

>>correspondence
-every entity that enters in any sort of contact with another entity creates a correspondence or sympathetic link, they become magically entangled
-this is represented by a code and a number representing the type of correspondence and how strong the link is
*indirect sensorial (audio) > direct sensorial (visual) > sensorial (touch) > magical (linked with a correspondence effect)
*a simple map data structure can hold this information

-visually this is represented by a color coded line, the color indicates the type of correspondence and the thickness how strong the link is, based on length of contact

>>mind sphere
-visual reference, BG3 mind puzzle
-looking into a NPC mind will make the mind structure appear floating above him as 3D Graph, the nodes are either interlinking nodes or feature nodes:
*memory nodes, data about the relationship to other NPCs for example
*decision making nodes, if then else conditional actions the NPC will take

-if GOAP or a FSM is used to control AI behaviour, certain nodes can lead to a visualization of the underlying script structure for that entity with variables that can be edited by the player

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>>98413314

>>time
-visual reference, Detroit become human flowchart timeline viewer
-Way of The samurai story structure
-able to see a timeline of scenes for a targeted character
*select a character and see a graph, each node is a spacetime coordinate (a location, day and hour stamp) with a relevant story event
*a single timeline is a sequence of nodes, different timelines are represented by parallel nodes
*amount of nodes that can be seen forward and backwards limited by sphere dots


>>matter, forces, life
-most effects can be simulated with a robust physics engine and direct variable manipulation
-the player access a virtual menu to change the variables of an entity
*mass, hardness, resistance to damage, conductivity, flameability, size etc.
*the scale of the variable change determines how hard it is to realize the effect

>>entropy

-portent die from dnd/BG3?
-RNG manipulation

The rest is unfinished.

>>98413284
Isn't that the game where people will hate you and go insane if you speak to them too much and you can cause destruction if you stay in one place for too long?

>>98413270
So you just read that part and completely ignored the rest, huh? Grim.

>>98413304
Eyes of the beast just lets you see in darkness, even supernatural darkness at the cost of inhuman eyes that identify you as supernatural.

>>98412749
I'd say what actually sells it is that the character concepts are written like auto-biographies. The writing isn't lauding the characters, you can tell it's the characters' own voice painting self-portraits that puts them in the light they see themselves in.

Shit like that is what makes it compelling. It's biased as fuck, but it's the bias of the character towards themselves, not the bias of the writer. Shit gives you plenty to work with for both empathizing and hanging the character.

>>98413330
I checked after making that post and the one I was thinking of was Animalism 1
>Sense the Beast: The vampire can sense the beast within other vampires, mortals and supernatural creatures

>>98413325
>Isn't that the game where people will hate you and go insane if you speak to them too much
Yes, which is why you have to make those dialogue options count instead of cheesing them to hear everything like in the average RPG.

>and you can cause destruction if you stay in one place for too long?
Yes, which is why you have to keep on the move instead of sitting in one place for in-game months grinding for money or whatever.

>>98413336
*grinding for infinite money

>>98413193
See: >>98413249

>>98413288
Yeah that was always stupid, but I also feel like they also largely walked that back later, because yeah, no clan structure. So it ended up being a "walk-out" with very little meaning, because in practice most Gangrel were still split between the Camarilla/Anarchs and the Sabbat anyway. They basically just gave up their seat at the Camarilla table and that was that, likely to the annoyance of many Gangrel.
>13th gen
I didn't even see that, that seems... unlikely.

I think it's a really fun concept, though. I'm imagining her walking into town and basically being black-bagged by vamps asking her who the fuck she thinks she is, and that she needs to report to the Prince. Strong fish-out-of-water/stranger-in-a-strange-land vibes but without being some kind of annoying Caitiff or complete Fledgling. She knows she's a vampire and she's been trained and everything, she just knows very little about vampire society.

The fact that (I think) she's obviously implied to have been embraced by a Drowned Legacy or something just adds another facet to it. If a player came with this character, I think I'd really enjoy leaning into the ways she's subtly different from other Gangrel, maybe award her a point in some exotic Discipline, maybe find some fun Merit.

>>98412915
I'm going to say it. Rudi's not a bad character just because you don't like him. A firebrand orator who isn't afraid of violence and is picking up a lot of people who feel used or unseen behind him is a very generic character because it works. Of course he has flaws, but given the actual neo-nazis posted in other excerpts don't go out of their way to tell you "oh by the way this guy sucks" and trust you to suss things out on their own, the fact that the character introduction doesn't stop to wax about things irrelevant to his main elevator pitch isn't a discrepancy.

>Jannies deleted the post of the christian explaining his reasoning
>Jannies left the other posts
Tranny Jannies at it again.

>>98413376
>someone actually did it
Explain how a week-old neonate becomes a power in his home city, talks shit to the elders openly without getting torn apart, and oh yeah STILL KEEPS IN TOUCH WITH HIS FRIENDS FROM HIS MORTAL LIFE WITH NO CHANGE WHATSOEVER when Kindred have been staked and left for the sun for much less egregious Masquerade violations.

>>98413382
If any sharty users are reading this, please do it again but harder.

>>98413382
>Jannies delete the posts of the Tradcath/Orthobro zoomzoom convert trying to undermine the legitimacy of Christianity
>Leave up the posts shitting on Islam

Nah jannies are based, you all need to go back to /pol/.

>>98413406
You need to go back to Faggdit.

>>98413310
I was thinking work it from the opposite side instead. Any time you are frightened/have to deal with a fear effect, its at +2 difficulty or whatever

>>98413375
To be honest, I actually like the notion that there are elder age 12th gens out there. These lines just lose the ability to embrace at a certain point and so are under-represented, not to mention can't rely on flexing their big blood muscles like the low gens can.

The "drowned legacy" thing is a bit of a nothingburger, but I do like the idea of going more in depth on pre-columbian vampires. It's a fun character in any case.

>>98413404
It's almost like there was a massive upheaval in the elder population and the influence of the Camarilla at the same time...

I'm glad I'm not a virtual adept or I'd probably die from trying too hard at pranking other 4chan users

>>98413404
>week-old neonate
I don't see it saying he was embraced literally a week ago, just that he was a new player, so if you were to play him as being just Embraced, you would use this to inform how he develops and responds to his new status. But it's also irrelevant, because he "becomes a power" by doing literally the same thing he was already doing before being Embraced. His approach is identical, his audience is identical, there is no contradiction here.

>talks shit to the elders
Remember a core part of V5 is the Beckoning. There are no Elders, and if there are, they are very busy handling things remotely. Due to, you know, Jyhad going loud in the Middle East. It's a stupid development, but it's the environment Rudi was developed in, so you cannot ignore it to criticize his character.

>still keeps in touch with his friends
Given that the Camarilla officially promotes the Path of Humanity, you'd think they would consider this a good thing. You're a Vampire now, but you aren't supposed to make waves. Well shit, Rudi already failed that from the outset by being a guy who isn't willing to sit down when somebody else tells him how to behave. But if you're not Rudi and you don't want to make waves, faking your death and moving across the country to somewhere nobody will recognize you seems like a pretty considerable undertaking. If this was meant to be what everyone is supposed to do, it would come up more often.

>Kindred have been staked and left for the sun for much less
You mean like organizing the disenfranchised to overthrow their cruel and abusive overlords? That sounds an awful lot like something the Camarilla would want him staked for. And also like something that could become a big problem in a few years if it wasn't taken care of soon, which hey, that's what the excerpt says they're concerned about him for!

>>98413442
VAs killed themselves when the Syndicate and NWO caused the rise of the dead internet with help from Iteration X.

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>>98413438
You dumb fucking gWoD apologetic retard, the elders do not exist in a vacuum. "Muh calling" can only be used to excuse so much. There are entire power structures and favors upon favors that rely on maintaining the Traditions, and the internal culture of almost all clans, regardless of the presence or absence of the elders, maintain that separation from your old life is paramount to avoid future problems. Rudi as a character as a whole beggars all belief on multiple different levels that would just not work in oWoD, where he would be fucking staked by his own clanmates or other vampires looking to climb the ladder the second his behavior became apparent.

You guys are getting baited like fuckin' WtA players lmao.

>>98413506
Can you articulate why exactly Rudi is a bad character that has nothing to do with him being gay, black, or a muslim? "Rebels against the elders," as established, is not a complaint. It's a core conflict to VtM.

>>98413506
The crippling mental retardation of gWoD apologists is indistinguishable from bait.

>>98413485
Bro, gWoD fags will not change or understand or care. Better to just pretend these fucks don't exist. Trying to explain to idiots is like jerking off with sand papér.

>>98413532
looks like a build engine enemy

Hang on a fucking second, isn't V5 the edition with quantum glowniggers that come pouring out of every doorway, window, manhole, trashcan, beer bottle and tin can with flamethrowers and flare guns at the ready if you so much a bare your fangs within twenty miles of a security camera? What the fuck is Rudi doing still mingling with his old friends and making no changes to his routine in a time when the slightest Masquerade violatin gets your smoked by the anti-vampire super FBI?

>>98413546
Logic doesn't exist in 5th edition, nor does it's fans have brain cells. I'm gonna say it again, SI is the dumbest fucking most retarded as shit they put in gWoD.

>>98413513
It has actually been articulated extensively in this thread.

>>98413454
You're a dumb fucking retard. You deserve nothing but derision and ridicule.

>>98413532
Unironic improvement.

>>98413546
"Something something something the beckoning you chud". - Corporate bootlickers, probably.

>>98413571
>SI is the dumbest fucking most retarded as shit they put in gWoD.
They wanted to ape TF:V and all the others without understanding what made them so good. Like every hack, they know the notes but not the music.

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>>98413513
The conversation you're going to ignore and pretend to not understand started here:
>>98412506

>>98413599
No, I am not going to go back through the conversation. You will copy and paste a specific complaint, or admit defeat.

>>98413604
OK, I'm going to rape you now.

>>98413604


>>98412815

>>98413635
So the problem with Rudi is that he's gay. Thanks. I could not have strawmanned you harder if I tried.

>>98413646
No, you're gay after I'm done raping you.

>>98413635
You know that trying to make fags and retards understand is a waste of time, right? You are getting rage baited hard man.

>>98413646

>>98412915
>>98412920
>some might think Rudi's combination fo praciting Islam and unabased queerness contradictory, but few challenge the "Bear Gangrel" with this notion
Rudi's actual character flaws and contradictions are not explored and only referenced in passing to be shutdown instantly, it's dishonest character writing.

>>98413546
V5's many unwieldy setting fixtures and obstructions only exist for players, you see. Elders all got summoned to the middle east? Doesn't matter, Rudi needs Elders to fight against. Second Inquisition forcing vampires to go further underground? Doesn't matter, Rudi can't get a JDAM through his roof because he's based on my friend!

But if your PC so much as has an IPhone three hundred identical glowniggers will kick down your haven's front door at high noon and rape you to death with holy dildos.

>>98413686
It's a character trait. He's defensive because people attack him over his religious beliefs. Like you're doing right now.

Bros... surely we aren't doing that thing we like to mock the woof fags for?

>>98413546
>>98413691
When a SI kill team comes after him, he uses hi Rudi's Army spell to keep them at bay.

The problem with Rudi is that he has no conflict.
Imagine a Rudi who isn't a flaming queer but was a semi-devout Muslim immigrant now sturggling with his religion, his new existence, and three vampiric cultures (Cam-Sabbat, Ashirra, and Banu Haqim), someone who hasn't figured out his own unlife calling for new solutions. Now that's a character you can engage with and play off, instead of brown gay woman respecter.

>>98413734
No no, let's waste paragraphs ticking boxes and listing identities. He/him has the ability to be all the minorities at the same time!

>>98413719
Pretty sure 2/3 of the replies is just him responding to himself in an effort to false-flag. If it wasn't obvious that it was a troll it certainly became obvious after "I'm not going to read the conversation!!" karenism.

>>98413686
>Rudi's actual character flaws and contradictions are not explored and only referenced in passing to be shutdown instantly
Must've gotten cross-eyed from the brain damage because I missed that somehow. Yeah bro, this Thin-Blood with maybe a month of experience to his name is such a le heckin' badass and so feared nobody dares to bring up his blatant hypocrisy to his face, not even the guys with 5s in their Disciplines. It's hilarious, literally CWC-tier writing.

>>98413734
>The problem with Rudi is that he has no conflict.
He's an Anarch, Anon. His conflict is with the traditional Vampire politics and power structures. The game you play with him is doing networking and building a political power structure to oppose the Camarilla over control of the city, or else hunting him down to solidify your grasp over your territory.

>>98413734
You could keep the gay muslim traits and make it a source of personal conflict as well, although it's super cliched, it's basically the same thing that has been done many times with gay religious characters, but at least it would've been a honest attempt at creating an actual character.

>>98413734
Even if he had internal conflict, it wouldn't matter, because he's still be a Mary Sue consisting of a collection of labels.

Either way, as discussed earlier (>>98412984), Rudi is just a symptom of a larger issue, and while one of the most obvious offenders, there's no shortage.

>>98411501
Really? Well that might explain how ChatGPT made rules about that. Though I’d be interested if you or anyone have more precision to give about this

>>98411591
>>98411677
You’ve shown your dissent, yes.
Unless you’ve anything to add that might help me make a new Thaumaturgy path, I’m afraid that your opinion is worth less than whatever slop I can conjure up with AI.

Plus I did some reworking on what it presented me, so it’s not like it’s 100% AI. Bleed the Locus was at first written to only last turns equivalent to the successes accumulated. Imagine permanently damaging a caern just to have +2 dices for a few seconds.

>>98413763
>literally CWC-tier writing.
It's unhinged that this is true.
But the really depressing realization is that "the modern writers" do not see this themselves.

>>98413763
People like you who talk unlimited shit over the internet would never actually run your mouths in person. An Elder Vampire already has reasons to kill him anyway, because of his political beliefs rather than his religious ones.

>>98413768
It's not the 90s anymore. People can and do define their religious beliefs in a way that doesn't make them feel bad about themselves, and that's not any less legitimate than any other religious belief.

>>98413734
Imo like other anons have said, it's simply not an honest attempt at making a character. A newly embraced Kindred with clout? Could be interesting. One who freely ignores the Masquerade in the time of the spook-driven vampire Holocaust? That's pushing it pretty far outside of any honest attempt at a character. He reads like someone's self-insert less because there's no conflict and more because the character is written in such a way where conflict is impossible. Like an open secret no one acts on because... what? And it's not a sudden thing it's a "this guy has been doing this for years" thing, and no one asks questions, no one does anything, despite the fact that there are more powerful vampires than this guy. Is he just small fry? The book doesn't make him seem like small fry. Charismatic? Maybe, but then they also make him an exceptional fighter. It's silly, like many things in 5th edition.

>>98413719
As it turns out, WoD players are contentious people. Except Wraith fans (all depressed), Demon fans (there are three of them), and Mummy fans (busy writing fanfiction)

>>98413816
No belief is inherently more or less legitimate, that's a moot point, what legitimizes a belief within a certain social framework is the people that hold those beliefs, so even if Rudi can conceptualize a version of Islam and Allah that accepts gays, he still would have to contend with the vast majority of the people who call themselves muslims and do not.
This could be an interesting source of interpersonal conflict for the character, but alas it's skimmed over in his description.