Curious pre-emptive bake.

>>98431537
I'm guessing even if you go into comba5 with zero drama points, you'll be able to generate enough. Even if that's not how the current numbers are balanced, it's still in Alpha. The game wants you to gain and spend Drama.

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KILL ALL PARADOX NIGGERS
OR PAIR OF DOG NIGGERS AS I CALL THEM

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Someone re-share the playtest caps so it's up here nice and early to be picked apart. They did nothing to get rid of the new setting, enshittified the rules, and seem to have added nothing of value. They're even doubling down on the "duskborn" shit.

>>98431533
Actually legitimate and hilarious.

>>98431541
Sorry, this thread is for people who play, or at least want to read, WoD systems. If you're not interested you need to leave.

At least this time the magefags will get molested too.

So what's the worst part of V6?

Discipline changes?
Quickening?
Life paths?
Humanity Scale?
Drama points?
Lore changes?
Vitae as health?
Conditions?

>>98431561
The V6 (official!) Playtest documents are up for everyone to download on DriveThruRPG. They are also on Demiplane and Roll20 (I think) but I don't use either of those so you'll have to find them yourself.

There are two required books, the Players and ST Guides, plus the playtest scenario.

Players Packet: https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/578154/vampire-the-masquerade-playtest-player-packet-pdf

Storytellers Packet: https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/578155/vampire-the-masquerade-playtest-storyteller-packet-pdf

Scenario: https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/578156/not-in-my-domain-vampire-the-masquerade-playtest-scenario

>>98431570
Download them and upload them, I'm not making a fucking account

>>98431566
Life paths are semi-cool, lame implementation but they get a pass. Certainly humanity scale and protean removal for me

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Reposting because V6 stole my (You)s.

I'm solo playing Rite of Passage with my first W20 character to learn the splat, pls rate and rec some fun gifts or ideas. Rabagash Homid Bone Gnawer. Concept: Clueless Weldwolf.

Morris Jones had always gotten screwed by the system. Go to trade school they said, welding's easy money they said. What they didn't say was how long the line was for a union job and how many fancy certs and courses you'd need for the big money jobs in nuclear plants, refineries, and factories. To top it off, after years of chop shop gigs and living off O'Tolley's leftovers in mum's trailer, dad had the gall to come back after years of abandoning you two and spouting some bullshit excuses about a worm and trying to get you to go live with him. Fuck that, you just got a shiny envelope offering you a Sponsored Training and Career Program with motherfucking Endron. Time to cash that ticket all the way to the big leagues and Big Money.

>>98431574
Do you want fries with that?

>>98431566
The Human v Beast balancing act is a neat idea, but it does need balancing. There's no reason to pursue humanity and all the reason to stay on the beast side of the spectrum. At least put some bonuses and maluses on both sides to encourage going back and forth.

>>98431574
nta but sure here you go

gofile /d/H0UmJ5

>>98431437
Not really but it is walking back some of V5's stuff. The Beckoning has ended and SI seems to have collapsed under its own weight. AI and the like has helped to sure up the masquerade although it's still pretty fragile. The Hecata might have been dissolved too? Giovanni are a clan again and the slide at gencon mentioned the Promise of 1528 is "right around the corner" so the 500 year limit on that seems to be correct. Otherwise Anarchs are struggling with power and Sabbat are doing Sabbat things in new ways. The playtesr doesn't have most of the setting chapter though just some highlights.

>>98431574
Drive through rpg has them for free.

>>98431548
V6 playtest cancer dropped and the other thread is at almost 1000 posts, has reached image limit, and is in autosage. It's hardly pre-emptive or curious.

>>98431579
Oh, fuck, it's dogwelder!
Run, you fools!

Looks like bakeslave won't wake up to a 2k post thread after all.

>>98431584
Mortal does have the Blush of Life benefits, which I think is supposed to counterbalance the extra Discipline die that Monstrous 2 gets and the Discipline die that Mortal 2 loses, but I think that a difference of 2 Discipline dice is enough to convince most players to go Monstrous almost every single time. The Blush of Life benefits just aren't significant enough.

>>98431584
>At least put some bonuses and maluses on both sides to encourage going back and forth.
Hell didn't most editions already have mechanical rewards for being on the human end of the spectrum like being able to function if your haven gets raided in the day or getting two more hours a day to work with?

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>>98431551
What are they adding that is potentially offensive, narratively or mechanically, to any of the clans? You actually need to commit to the bit. Trade-offs need to be real while maintaining narrative-mechanical congruence.

>>98431563
You don't need to play bad games to be here.

>>98431566
The explicit threat that they will bring Mage into the setting and subject it to the same violations they subjected Vampire, Werewolf, and Hunter to. I'm not even a magefag, I just want it to stop.

>>98431566
I'm trying to picture how "vitae is health" will translate to the other books.

>Mages have their quintessence added onto their health. The more magic you do the more the universe lashes back at your body with paradox.
>Changelings have their, uh, fey whimsy and madness added to their health. When you are reduced to zero you are consumed by banality and die a mortal death.
>Werewolves add their Rage to their health. You are too angry to die so easily.

The thing is, vampires can regain Vitae super easy. Just eat something. What are the other lines gonna do to keep up? Will vampires just be super regenerative with feeding?

>>98431566
Either Humanity or Drama for me. I think the rest of it is interesting and often an improvement of V5. I like a lot of the new Discipline stuff. Might be the best they've been from a purely structural standpoint. The two I mentioned I'm unsure of in play but can't say it's bad until I get it to the table.

>>98431576
I'm surprised at how much I don't mind the Protean thing. Gangrel have always been my Clan and it's 90% because of Protean but I'm not sure they've really lost anything in this change and they get Earth Meld without it which is the most iconic Gangrel thing to me. My big worry about it is whether Tzimisce will eat their lunch but otherwise I kinda think it works.

>>98431585
>no art
>no lore
>no setting
>just muh rules and muh numbers (these suck too)
Wake up babe! WoD is now trend chasing DnD and Critical Role!

>>98431613
I said what they're adding. You're replying to the wrong anon.

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>usurped again
Im not getting sent back to Section C... right?

Existential torment aside, when should I bake the next bread? When this one hits bump and image limit? Page 9?
>>98431598
I secretly hope the other one still hits 1k. No promotion but at least I get 1 autonomy to buy off a little taint and spend on something useless but nifty to keep him meek.

>>98431623
It's an Alpha playtest.

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>>98431589
"Walking things back" doesn't cut it. They need to retcon all of gWoD and can the setting, because just "walking it back" still implies that all the things V5/W5/H5 pushed still happened, and walking it back at this point just makes things *more* nonsensical in relation to oWoD, not less.

>>98431591
Worst part? We're getting peak viewer time levels of trafgic during off hours. It'll be 20x worse tommorrow... and Then there'll be a HtP premier.
We're probably going tp need another new thread by noon eastern time tommorrow.

>>98431616
I think they'll just have health. It seems to be deliberately a Vampire mechanic and as it's not core dice resolution there isn't much reason to keep it. It'd be like wondering why Mage Disciplines would be.

>>98431628
>g man is awake

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>>98431593
>>98431593
Hell yeah. Though I'm not sure if the Garou Nation would approve of welding dogs to your enemies. All of section 8 would make excellent WoD characters.

For me, it's Defenestrator

>>98431624
>I said what they're adding.
Ah, yes, alright. They are adding "stuff", I guess. Just "stuff". That is really quite something.
>You're replying to the wrong anon.
No, I was replying to the right post, I double-checked to make sure.

>>98431613
>The shills (the devs) are unironically trying to say "y-you can't criticize if you don't buy our slop!"
The absolute state of this IP lmao
>>98431617
>I don't mind the Protean thing.
Of course you don't my fellow dev

>>98431637
This is a very good example of a fomori first strike team.

>>98431637
>not sure if the Garou Nation would approve of welding dogs to your enemies.
On the other, Bueno would fit right in.

>>98431626
If Paradox doesn't care enough to pay for a single piece of art for this shit when they paid for it to be played by "roleplaying professional actors" is because they're just slopping this big time

>>98431625
S-stop it, you're going to make me feel bad. I didn't think you were around!

>>98431644
I like Protean for the powers not for the fact it's a Discipline. Disciplines are largely arbitrary and even the Book of Nod's Disciplines weren't stuck to. So when the powers still exist what's there to be upset about? I can still turn into a bat and claw people's eyes out and sink into the dirt to sleep..

Which way will Changeling go?
>play as a cursed human with fey powers
>play as a fey that was raised as a human
I really hope we get to be, y'know, actual Changelings instead of cursed humans. Plus, I feel like it would be a nice contrast to Vampire. Vampires experience an external trauma that leaves them forever changed. Changelings discover something internal that set them apart from other people.

>>98431643
This stuff >>98431532. The stuff I said.

>>98431650
Hmm, which is more important?
>Art that'll probably be outdated and need to be replaced
>advertising the product

>>98431566
I actually like vitae as health

>>98431650
Most alpha tests are barely formatted plaintext docs. We're lucky there are sidebars and tables.

>>98431531
Holy fuck it was worse than I expected.

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>>98431664
None of that is potentially offensive in the way described.

>>98431669
>art
>"outdated"
Oh you're one of.. those.

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>>98431657
Its my fault for being greedy and expecting anons to edge without images until tomorrow.
Im wired from that driveway incident plus I normally need to stay awake until at least 1am to help administer medication for my dad.

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>>98431661
Please don't go the Lost route. There are a couple of things you can take from that game, but the core should still be Dreaming. It's a lot more expansive and full of potential, not to mention how unique it is.

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>>98431705

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>>98429927

>>98431694
Well yeah because I never described anything as potentially offensive. I said the game had more things to add uniqueness to the clans and then some anon replied to me by saying they'd done the opposite in the past because of offensiveness. So I asked why that mattered when they're adding in more unique things now.

>>98431616
>>Changelings have their, uh, fey whimsy and madness added to their health. When you are reduced to zero you are consumed by banality and die a mortal death.
That's not too far off from how it worked in the second edition of Changeling: the Dreaming.

>>98431677
Leviticus 17:11-14

11 For the life of the flesh is in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls: for it is the blood that maketh an atonement for the soul.

12 Therefore I said unto the children of Israel, No soul of you shall eat blood, neither shall any stranger that sojourneth among you eat blood.

13 And whatsoever man there be of the children of Israel, or of the strangers that sojourn among you, which hunteth and catcheth any beast or fowl that may be eaten; he shall even pour out the blood thereof, and cover it with dust.

14 For it is the life of all flesh; the blood of it is for the life thereof: therefore I said unto the children of Israel, Ye shall eat the blood of no manner of flesh: for the life of all flesh is the blood thereof: whosoever eateth it shall be cut off.

Mummy20 when?

>>98431659
>Disciplines are largely arbitrary
They're not, though. They represent a narrative-mechanical congruity, often representative of the nature of a given vampiric bloodline. You could theoretically remove all disciplines completely and just let everyone pick whatever powers they feel fit themselves, but you'd lose an essential element of clan identity and one of the things that connects one vampire to the other vampires of the same type. Exceptions to this should not be the rule, because then the fact that it is an exception loses its meaning, limiting rather than broadening unique expression because character identity is contextual to a given framework.

While I'm not going to call Protean thematically strong or pretend that it could not have been tightened up, there are several aspects which does not fit into things like Animalism or Vicissitude, as Protean is representative of the mutability of the own body and the powers of the Beast itself.

>>98431699
It will feature Changeling: the Lost's Contract of Dreams and Oneiromancy.

>>98431708
>with their unique minds
>curse in development
Are they actually getting ready to pull the trigger and make the Malkavians not actual lunatics? Also Salubri getting changed up yet again, why they can't just stick with them needing to ask permission before biting I don't know.

Anyone ever play a non-mage or even a different splat/monster with Do martial arts?

>>98431579
I have some undercooked gifts so take a look if you find anything you like.

>Deny the gift of memory
By locking eyes with with a mortal the werewolf may cause trigger a lesser, some would say kinder, form of lunacy upon the victim stopping them from forming inconvenient memories of the moment.

Effect: After locking eyes with the target the player rolls Rage, difficulty equal to the target's Willpower. On a Success the target does not form any memories of the current scene and will forget any information they learned during it.

>Bark & Babble
The weaver gave humanity the ability to communicate complex ideas through mere vibrations in the air, by bribing a spirit of air the all the victims words are turned to dog barks.

Effect: By spending 1 Gnosis and rolling Manipulation + Occult, difficulty to the target's Rage, or 3 if the targets lack the trait, lose their ability to speak any human tongue for one day/success.

>Tyranny over Tools
With a shout the homid strikes fear on the spirits within the weapons of their enemies.

Effect: The player spends a point of Rage and an action to cowl the spirit of an object. Roll Charisma + Intimidation each success increases the difficulty to use the object against the werewolf and their allies by one. The penalty only last 1 action.

All of these are first drafts to take them with a pintch of salt

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>>98431708
>"Banu Haqim"
>[in development]
I see that they have still not decided whether to return to their clan curse being wearing blackface or not. It would uniroically be the based decision so they will obviously not do that.

It's also hilarious that they are returning to "Giovanni" but still insist on "Banu Haqim" and "Ministry". Since they refuse to retcon their shitty setting away, I cannot wait to see what they will pull out of their ass to explain it.
>uh, uh, the giovanni just purged the ranks of the hecata and reasserted themselves xD
Calling it now.

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>>98431751
When you write it. Get to it, Servant of Thoth.

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>>98431708
I think it is utterly shit how Malkavians have gone from "irrevocably insane vampires cursed with dementation" that is merely implied to be part of a type of "madness network" left vague to "universal psychics that share all information in a hive mind :D:DD". These motherfuckers really can't write and have no appreciation for subtly or mystification.

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>>98431765
"uuh, ackshually there is nothing wrong with being neurodivergent, CHUD. to be fair you have to have a very high IQ to understand the malkavian network (calling it "madness network" is ableist and probably racist to). my disability is not your shield and autism is actually a bit like a superpower :)"

>>98431756
>They represent a narrative-mechanical congruity, often representative of the nature of a given vampiric bloodline.
Which I think is maintained here. Gangrel haven't lost anything and what they gained is Celerity which is mostly on theme for them. They're feral and animalistic so reflexes and speed line up in my opinion. Nossies have gained more shapeshifting but for freaks and spies I wouldn't say that's out of their purview even if it is different to prior editions.

>you'd lose an essential element of clan identity and one of the things that connects one vampire to the other vampires of the same type
I don't think that's meaningfully changed. Gangrel have unique stuff and Gangrel share the same spread.

>Exceptions to this should not be the rule
There isn't an exception really being made here. The powers got shuffled around vs. older editions but it's set in its own game.

>there are several aspects which does not fit into things like Animalism
It's animal shape stuff in Animalism and I tend to think that's fine. It's now all the animal stuff. Earth Meld is just on the Gangrel itself and the jury's out on Mist Form.

It's so shit I'm actually hoping Hunter: the Parenting will save us from having to discuss it further.

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so why is it still called oblivion in v6 when it's divorced from necromancy again? fewer vtes card reprints? or is the name obtenebration somehow controverse ?

>>98431785
Man... I am fucking working on it.

Im gonna add a few things.
Theriocephaly thats gonna give them animal heads that grant special powers. Not just attributes, but stuff like Garou Gifts & be more the Umbra version of their Necromancy Hekau. As well as a Dynasty which uses it. They're Mummies whos prefer to be unnoticed & do things unseen

Plus Einherjar for European Mummies. They'll mostly use the same Hekau, since a lot of those themes (Celestial to summon storms like Odin, Amulets are called Runes but mostly so the same thing, etc) when Einherjar die they go to the Mead Hall instead of the Judges. I also need to think of a cool Hekau specifically for them so I can bring something new to the table, & Dynasties of course.

The biggest thing to me is just getting rid of the Web of Faith/expanding it & just opening up the world to everyone. But theres a lot of rules & metaplot based around it so im not sure how to go about it.


Any & all suggestions are welcome

>>98431799
Autism not being seen as a super power is actually a big thing disabled people fight for. There were lots of options for having disabilities in previous editions that were removed because blind people don't want to all be Daredevil all the time.

>>98431613
>You don't need to play bad games to be here.
I though this was the WoD general

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>>98431829
>Autism not being seen as a super power is actually a big thing disabled people fight for.
And yet it is still a thing autists regularly parrot, to the frustration of countless parents that wants to kill themselves because they were tricked or forced into keeping their screaming fleshbag.
>There were lots of options for having disabilities in previous editions that were removed because blind people don't want to all be Daredevil all the time.
Yeah it's fucking gay. Disabilities should be disabilities, but there is also always potential ways to deal with it. Daredeviling comes naturally to the blindness. The funny thing is that the blind people would never really give a shit, it's not like any significant numbers are playing the game.

>>98431822
Because Paracucks are fucking stupid. It gets even dumber once you realize that Necromancy (as used by Vampires) was not a true Discipline in the past, it was always just blood magic, but now Blood Magic is its own singular discipline with different paths representing different types of blood magic (probably the only change I agree with), but somehow this does not include Necromancy either, because...?? Because fuck making sense, I guess.

Either all types of blood magic should be sorted under Blood Magic, or none of them should be. Make it make sense. It's not even fucking hard.

>>98431616
That mage option would streamline paradox punishment, making the best groups much more boring but the worst ones much more tolerable. So it sounds like a valid route for a corporation.

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>>98431888

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>>98431892

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>>98431894

>>98431892
>werewolf dropped from Big 3
>replaced with changeling
Based.

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>>98431888
>>98431892
>>98431894
>>98431895
Please, don't stop.

>>98431895
On onehand I like my manuals readable. Not every edition fulfills this. But this standarized look I only find okay in indie games with a wide target like Liminal Horror or Cairn, WoD should have some design identity.

>>98431800
Taking on aspects of the Beast is similar but unrelated to affinity with animals. It also creates the issue where those with Animalism gets things outside of what you'd expect from Animalism, and Earth Meld being a distinctly Gangrel thing is just as stupid.

That being said, Protean is probably one of the least thematically consistent Disciplines, and out of all things to get mad over, this is not a hill I intend to die on as I regularly criticize V2/VR/V20 Disciplines already.

>>98431897
probably not sure what to do after W5 was such a clusterfuck and unlike with v5 some of the w5 people (outstar) are still in the company

>>98431720
>Well yeah because I never described anything as potentially offensive.
But the post that was replied to did.
>because the current writers are afraid to do anything offensive
>And now they're adding some stuff in to do that.
>What are they adding that is potentially offensive, narratively or mechanically, to any of the clans?
You need to be potentially offensive, there needs to be a trade-off, whether that is narrative (Tremere hate) or mechanical (Nossie 0 Appearance).

Trying to at every point appease everyone pleases no-one, and only makes things bland, bland, bland, bland.

Why do people praise hunter the vigil over hunter the reckoning so much? Is it just about the idea of being a "normal" guy beating up the monsters of the night? I ask because honestly it feels as if hunter the reckoning doesn't get praised for being decent or good when I wouldn't call it bad by any stretch. Like to the point when people praise hunter the vigil it's as if they've never read hunter the reckoning. Any thoughts on this?

The closest i've seen to this is Demon: The Fallen but that one I can understand why people are divided on that one.

>>98431901
>Taking on aspects of the Beast is similar but unrelated to affinity with animals.
Right but Animalism is about the manipulation, interaction, and mimicry of animals now. So it's thematically cohesive in its own context.

>Earth Meld being a distinctly Gangrel thing is just as stupid.
I like it because it is a distinctly Gangrel thing. It's exemplary of their survivalism and one of the most unique things of their unique Discipline. Having them retain access to it as an exclusive thing is fine by me.

>That being said, Protean is probably one of the least thematically consistent Disciplines
It's also the worst version of itself in V5 because it's spread so thin across the extra powers.

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>>98431616
This is actually a good point, because in oWoD, Vitae is speculated to essentially be Quintessence, or variations thereof, blood being lifeforce and Vitae concentrating that, or whatever and so forth.

I guess they are either completely severing that in gWoD, or turning everyone into blood mages, with "Vitae" just being another word for "blood".

I swear to fucking god they think nothing through.

>>98431631
If you don't know anything about Mage/Vampire, you don't *have* to respond. There is nothing *forcing* you to post.

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>>98429546
I just realized they stole this from Avatar Legends, right down to "losing your balance" crossing off the opposite side's sections until you reach a "retire the character" state.

>>98431908
Clans have their own weaknesses

>>98431918
>Right but Animalism is about the manipulation, interaction, and mimicry of animals now. So it's thematically cohesive in its own context.
Yeah, but that's just it, the Beast is *not* an animal, just animalistic in the vaguest base sense of the word.

>>98431919
I like both Mage and Vampire. Mages get their own powers, not just Disciplines with new powers.

>>98431778
While I have no frame of reference for how good they are in relation to other gifts, I see a lot of fun potential in bark and babble for roleplay, or deny the gift of memory for infiltration. Interrogate the guard and make him forget he even saw you.

>>98431929
Animalism isn't the Beast

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>>98431924
scion 2e also has a very similar system just with 5 dots

>>98431924
There are probably a dozen games with the same mechanic

So what do we thing about it so far?
>https://strawpoll.com/PKgleQk39Zp

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>>98431919
>Vitae is speculated to essentially be Quintessence
It is more than just speculated. Mages can outright consume Vitae as a form of Tass. So if health/blood is the same as Vitae, Mages just became the strongest vampires in the Gay World of Darkness, because they can just drain the life right out of things. But now I'm imagining M5 (remember, there never was an M5, so the next edition of Mage will be M5, not M6) just making Quintessence not Quintessence, because that's something I can absolutely see them do.

>>98431929
Taking on animal aspects are in the animal Discipline and both are, loosely, about using the Beast to influence things. I don't know what's hard to grok here.

>>98431944
>>98431945
I guess I have a limited reference pool, since that was the only game I played with that sorta thing. But all I know is, I hated it.

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>>98431892
Please stop.
Someone tell them to stop.
Do not subject Mage and Changeling to this.
I don't want to anymore.

>>98431919
All magical powers without any exception are quintessence, this is made quite clear. Demon faith? Quint. Mummy Sekhem? Quint. Vitae? Quint Gnosis? Quint. The psychological energy generated by ragebaiting oWod fans on mongolian basketweaving forums? Quint.
The difference is merely the resonance. So vitae is quint with vampiric resonance, whilst gnosis is quint with gaian resonance.

>>98431942
Yes, that is what is being said here. Good job.

>>98431960
Protean is A.
Animalism is B.

A is removed.
There is only B.

Grok now?

If it's an Alpha it's still very early and if it's a playtest that means they want feedback, right? So the best we can do is get down to it, try this shit at least a little bit and write everything we want to them because in the current state it's looking worse than V5.

>>98431566
The Humanity part seems horrible and a chore to micromanage. I just want to roleplay ffs.

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>>98431964
Your time has come.

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>>98431975
>that means they want feedback, right?

>>98431970
But I don't care about the Discipline not existing if the powers still do. So we're back at the beginning.

>>98431964
Watch the Changeling morality tracker be Glamour/Banality, missing the point entirely

>>98431975
Yep. There are a couple of feedback forms (one long, one short) if you want to play it and tell them what you thought.

>>98431909
People really do want to just be mundane humans. Imbued shards of whatever the fuck might make sense for a specific chosen one, like Buffy or the Supernatural Twins, but it doesn't work for the vast majority to want to be Humanity Fuck Yeah heroes who blow up monsters.

Anything about the Tremere?

>>98431919
>>98431954
>gWoD
Come on now.

>>98431925
Yeah, no shit you fucking mongoloid, no-one has said otherwise. But boiling down everything good and bad about someone or something into a single discrete "weakness" is shit design, and symptomatic of precisely what anon was describing to begin with.

>>98431932
True statement with absolutely no relation to anything. I refuse to believe that you're not the same person as above, because it is unthinkable that we'd have more than one person without a single thought in his head at the exact same time.

>>98431993
Still not finished.

>>98431993
They have Blood Sorcery or Necromancy now.

>>98431993
can choose to have necromancy instead of blood sorcery as in-clan now

but beside that they aren't in the play test yet (as is necromancy or blood sorcery)

>>98431993
They somehow got Necromancy in all this.

>>98431993
They're not in the playtest but we know their spread. Auspex, Dominate, and then either Blood Sorcery or Necromancy. Blood Sorcery sounds very much like an expanded Path of Blood from the description in the glossary, while Necromancy sounds like Sepulchre and Bones?

>>98431998
Are you okay? Vitae = health seems like a Vampire specific mechanic because they're undead and need it to fuel their body. Mages are probably just gonna have meat points because they're meat.

>>98432001
>>98432002
>>98432003
>necromancy
Huh, weird but I don't hate it. And I get that they're splitting this necromancy and Obtenebration again intead of keeping Oblivion? Kinda wanted to see a Tremere with shadow stuff.

>>98432018
It's still called Oblivion but does seem like mostly Obtenebration. All 8 of the playtest powers are shadows.

>>98432008
Ah so it's either/or? Well I'm fine with it as long as they're playable again and don't instadie if anywhere near a fight like early v5 Tremere were.

>>98432018
Kinda, Obtenebration is still called Oblivion, but Necromancy is back to being its own thing. Also Giovanni (since Hecata are gone) have Necromancy, so it's a shared Discipline, not a unique one.

>>98431987
Which marks you as a shit designed with bad taste, because:
>>98431545
>clans have been losing uniqueness since revised because the current writers are afraid to do anything offensive
>>98431613
>Trade-offs need to be real while maintaining narrative-mechanical congruence.
>>98431756
>You could theoretically remove all disciplines completely and just let everyone pick whatever powers they feel fit themselves, but you'd lose an essential element of clan identity and one of the things that connects one vampire to the other vampires of the same type.

You may be OK with "it's all fine as long as *I* get to use the power *I* like for my specific character only regardless of how I get it xD" but some of us wants substance, not slop. You'd obviously be fine with a list of powers to choose from freely and the ball pit at McDonalds.

>>98432018
they do split it but for some reason they keep calling Obtenebration Oblivion despite it now being 100% abyss manipulation again

and there are now lasombra who don't have "Oblivion" as they gave the setites a new corruption discipline based on the path of corruption and lasombra can pick that one as 3rd discipline like tremere can pick necromancy

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Reminder that a problem-glasses on the dev team said, and I quote: "Fuck the Tremere
https://youtu.be/O2lnOkhCUpo?t=1018

And also admitted that it took some convincing not to get rid of them outright:
https://youtu.be/O2lnOkhCUpo?t=1242

>>98432021
It's funny, I was mad when they mashed those together but I'd just gotten used to it, going to feel a bit weird getting back. Also while the lore was silly I sort of liked the Hecata and not having to invent super special snowflake backstories to play a necromancer, not sure how changing all that will work.

>>98432028
>doesn't know that people can exaggerate their dislike of something for a bit
Notice she said it with a smile and not while fuming with rage.

>>98432025
Yes. It's fine because I like it and I'm talking about my opinion. I wouldn't be fine with no Disciplines but don't mind Protean in Animalism with Earth Meld on the side.

>>98431954
>Mages just became the strongest vampires in the Gay World of Darkness, because they can just drain the life right out of things.
Blood sacrifice for Quint was always a thing. You can cut yourself to power spells, you can kill people to make tass from their life force, you can make a Wonder that recharges by killing people.

>>98432015
Now you're two steps removed from whatever point you think you're trying to make.

>>98432024
>>98432018
Also, its a Discipline, not blood magic, because Blood Magic is its own Discipline. No it doesn't make sense but here we are.

>>98432032
Oh, please, people nowadays use ironic humorous undertones disingenuously to mask their actual contempt for something. It's a hallmark of reddit, tumblr, and discord.

>>98432031
I think Hecata are gone as a pay off to the Promise of 1528. I don't mind them doing it either way really, but the necros weren't my faves either.

>>98432033
>I wouldn't be fine with no Disciplines
Why? You said
>I don't care about the Discipline not existing if the powers still do.
Not only do you have bad taste, you don't even know what you want. You're just a retarded contrarian that is trying to defend bad design with the excuse that if it doesn't affect you personally, it doesn't matter, the mindset of an abject sociopath.

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V6 is kind of shit ngl

>>98432037
Yes, but this is a 1:1 anon, because they are the same thing. This may change in M5 if they massively balloon and revamp Quintessence, but it's still dumb.

Are they finally changing Hunger Dice and the whole thing where if you roll too well you fuck up because of Messy Crits?

>>98432048
>mina
>int 1
fits with the average mina player i get grouped up with

>>98432039
Vitae as health is for vampire undead things.
Mages are not vampire undead.
Disciplines are for vampire undead things.
Mages are not vampire undead.
Mages do not get disciplines because they're not vampire undead.
Mages probably won't get a health replacement because they're not vampire undead so don't need the mechanic that's for vampire undead things. L

>>98432031
>not having to invent super special snowflake backstories to play a necromancer
You don’t have to worry about that anymore buddy! Because the folks over at Paradox let the Tremere have access to Necromancy! Now you can just play a Tremere! Problem solved! Yay!!!

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>>98432028
>four pathetic women and a failed male

>>98432053
them hating hunger dice and thinking that they won't work for mage and changeling at all is the main reason why they are doing the 6th ed instead of just continuing wod5

>>98432046
Yeah, I'm okay with Protean not being there in this instance. I wouldn't be okay with all of them going. These two scenarios are actually different things despite both involving Disciplines.

>>98431944
Also Werewolf the Forsaken and Beast the Primordial. Beast also has the mechanic where you lose all your powers if you get to 10.

>>98432061
If they hated them why did they keep them for so long and ignore the hate for them ever since the first v5 playtests?

>Yet ANOTHER Edition that replaces Appearance with Composure
>Yet ANOTHER Edition that is shit
Gentlemen, I think you owe AppearanceCHADS an apology.

>>98431909
I fucking love the concepts and themes of Hunter: The Reckoning (no, not H4) and value it far and above Hunter: The Vigil, but if you just want to play actual humans without all the schizo and the extra powers, that's incredibly legit.

Honestly if I were to make oWoD splats, I'd make Mortal: The Vigil one of them, completely separate from Hunter: The Reckoning, and Mortal would essentially just be a very expanded Hunters Hunted that focuses on completely human organizations, possibly with some overlap between it and other splats.

>>98432053
Yep, hunger dice are gone. They said they like the struggle with the Beast but thought they promoted specific styles of gameplay too much.

Drama is a stupid idea. STs can just do that on their own if they want.

Is Predator Type still in?
Are Touchstones still in?
Is Blood Resonance still in?

>>98432072
Thank fuck. Though the new Beast/Nature thing seems obnoxious and forces you into ooc busywork to keep your character functioning just like obsessing over Hunger Dice did.

>>98432041
What a sad world you live in.

>>98432031
>not sure how changing all that will work
It won't, but they'll do it anyway, because nothing has to be make sense in gWoD.

>>98432056
Whatever meds you need, you've forgotten to take them.

>>98432068
different teams

in 8 years wod5 went through like.. yeah i think 5 teams (the og, the freelancers after who came after the camarilla book and jumped ship early in w5's development, anchill's team, renegade freelancer team, the current team) till they just got to one who went "fuck this shit next edition"

>>98432079
It's a sad world we all live in. Otherwise V6 wouldn't be...this.

>>98432071
I'd call it Mortal: The Hunted or Mortal: The Prey.

>>98432056
But they will be made with the same core mechanics. If they don't spend their health to use their (generic name for supernatural powers) what will they function like? We have to assume they'll function similarly or we just have nothing to go off of and then there's no point in talking about it at all.

>>98432073
They still can!

>>98432076
No, no, and no. :)
We’re finally free, Unc. We’re finally free.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JJC7Dc-FlK4

>>98432092
Well, like I said at the start, I think they'll just have Health. The Vitae thing is written as "this is a model for vampires being undead" and it's not the core resolution so it's very easy to change. Damage wouldn't need to be fucked with more than any 5e game did between editions and NPCs already have Health. All the dice and stats will carry over but this is more of a template mechanic as written than a core feature of the ruleset. WoD games already have unique resource mechanics in their splats too so this isn't much different, and it's not far off the way they modelled damage differences either.

>>98432097
Praise Caine!

>>98432052
Anon, a human life was already worth 10 quint. This isn't meaningfully more.

>>98431564
>>98431892
...I don't want to be molested
Can we like, pay them money to ignore Mage and Changeling?

>>98432112
It's either something to ignore, or something good. You can't lose.

>>98432076
You're not locked in to hunting in a certain way, but there is advice on different methods of getting blood.

Hunting Options
You can describe your hunting approach in any way you want, and the Storyteller determines the appropriate test, using the standard ATTRIBUTE + SKILL – Difficulty formula. The Difficulty is 2, plus or
minus an amount determined by the circumstances of the hunt (see the Storyteller Packet for more
on determining hunting Difficulty). Here are a few examples of ways you can hunt and the tests commonly associated with them.

>Alleycat
You hunt in the dark alleys of the city, using your overpowering strength, fearsome presence, or predatory stealth to find your prey.
>Bagger
You obtain stored blood from blood banks through subterfuge, manipulation, or having the right contacts in the right places. For each extra success beyond the first, you gain one extra blood bag.
I'm not writing them all down.
>Siren
>Reaper
>Herd

Touchstones and Blood Resonance have no mention in the player or ST Alpha doc.

>>98432091
I was at first just joking because Mortal: The Vigil would crib a lot from Hunter: The Vigil, but then when I thought about it I thought it fitted the part of being human, standing watch, in fear of the dark, as well as standing vigil over the dead, and so on, so I felt it appropriate. Mortals are only really prey to vampires; the mages they are sleepers, to wraiths they are the living, and so on and so forth, so I'm not sure describing them as hunted really fits, and Mortal would cover a lot of ground, from horror scenarios where you're a group just trying to survive the things that go bump in the night, to the Society of Leopold and Bob Schnoblin.

>>98432106
So, what WILL Mage and them use then?

>>98431892
What the fuck is that CtD logo, man? Million dollar company btw

>>98432106
>I think they'll just have Health
And in gWoD Health is equivalent to Vitae, anon.
And Vitae is a form of Tass.

I expect you to respond in a non-sequitur.

5e ruined
>Werewolf
>Hunter
6e will ruin
>Mage
>Changeling

…WraithChads stay winning, baby!!!!

>>98432112
Probably the same stuff they always have. I don't really expect there to be much changes in this aspect of things. I think the splats are gonna see a similar overhaul and have more going on, I think it's likely Humanity equivalents will be more drastic, and I think Attainments will probably be a thing.

Wait, if having too much Humanity is a bad thing, how are you suppose to achieve Golconda in V6?

>>98432140
The same way we always do: by ST fiat.

>>98432133
>gWoD

>>98432041
>I'm not autistic, it's everyone else that comunicate literally with no social cues

>>98432146
I accept your concession.

>>98432140
When a vampire reaches max humanity they are no longer a good option for a PC, but that doesn't mean their story ends here. Pick one of these options.
>Goncala quest to Asia
>suicide
>long term torpor until these human emotions can fade
>permanent isolation from vampire society and a life of repenting for your cursed nature
>etc. etc.

>>98432140
You don't. You just go zen and then leave because.. because.. because the rules just say so, OK?!

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>>98432151
>>permanent isolation from vampire society and a life of repenting for your cursed nature

>>98432150
That wasn't a non-sequitor. I accept YOUR concession.

>>98432140
Golconda IS a end state where your char becomes a npc according to the playtest

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>>98432148
Who are you quoting? Because the fact that you don't pick up the fact that she's only haha-joking-haha-no-but-for-real suggests that the autist is (you).

But more likely you're just running interference because you're a corporate bootlicker defending m'lady and [current year] [product].

>>98432140
Achieving Golconda is out of the remit of the playtest, and probably he core book, but one of the reasons why too much Humanity removes you from play is because you fucked off in search of it. The too much humanity thing is basically a prelude to Golconda. It's like a state of ego death where you become entirely detached from the conflict of man vs. beast and go journey to find meaning in it.

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>>98432160
>[non-sequitur]
>n-no u!
Meds.

>>98431746
>Nu-NuWhitewolf is pandering to Abrahamchuds
Vros...

>>98432166
I'm just mocking you for being an autist, the fact you created two conspiracies where I'm getting something from people who'd never see this instead of picking up that I'm fucking with the person reading me is pretty solid evidence.

>>98432172
It's tremendously retarded, anon. Just because I'm not a shit person or that I have kept my Beast in check over a period of time doesn't mandate that I am in search of perpetual enlightenment, and the fact that you're attempting to defend this shit by inferring things that have not even been stated to be true is more than a little pathetic. You're literally inventing things whole cloth now just to defend the indefensible.

You're the kind of person that would defend the rape of 250 000 British children by saying that it's OK because the perpetrators are poor and also white supremacy made them do it, somehow. Not because the rapists used this as a defense, but because you're so eager to defend it that it doesn't matter if it makes any sense or not or if anyone has said anything even hinting at that. Deplorable.

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>>98432055
Made an effort to make a somewhat accurate one. I'd give her like 1.5 int were it mechanically possible.

The fact that she, a fashionista socialite, has to have animalism 3 for all the bat nonsense feels iffy but what can you do.

All in all the char maker is kind of shit, and at least for me doesn't export into PDF right.

>>98432180
>everyone I talk to is the same person
>quick, I better start going on about conspiracies and write unhinged sentences that makes no sense
Real schizo hours.

Are we being brigaded by plebbitors today?

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>>98432188
The fact that you do everything you can to endow this with soul is a credit to your genius, but I fear that it is a lost cause. I am sorry you had to go through this, and you really do deserve better.

>>98432188
oh mina isn't very smart and stat block looks fine to me (although i haven't looked into the play test much yet)

i am just salty because i had a mina and drifter duo in my last few games and they both been absolutely terrible

>>98432183
Sure, but that's one option of many. The Golconda quest is just one explanation for it. And as Golconda was just the thing that anon mentioned so it's what I talked about. Y'know like how conversations go. I didn't even say I liked it but you're so seemingly desperate for outrage you're acting like I said it was the most elegant and exceptional bit of game design WoD has ever seen. Get over yourself.

>>98432190
>Are we being brigaded by plebbitors today?
Worse. I think the devs are actually here. It's like 10:50 AM here and I think they are angry that we're pointing out all the stupid shit. But like I already said, it's all pointless unless they actually deal with the bigger issue of the setting itself. Mechanics and setting needs to match up, and their setting is fundamentally bad, partially because they never seem to have understood this, and V6 is just further evidence of that.

>>98432211
>you're acting like I said it was the most elegant and exceptional bit of game design WoD has ever seen
No I didn't, I called it like it is. You're trying to invent nonsensical scenarios to defend nonsensical design, inventing things whole-cloth in an attempt to deflect from it. You don't need to say that it is the most elegant or exceptional thing; the fact that you try to defend it in this way is the issue regardless of what you think of the design element, which was never actually raised.

>>98432213
i know onyx path been on tg before (mostly in the kickstarter scion 2e threads) so it wouldn't suprise me

>>98432213
I doubt we are that big of a deal, all in all. I mean I wouldn't put it past Paradox to send a single intern to take a look but there's no concerted effort to damage control the opinion of /tg/.
>>98432226
..really? Like, confirmed?

Google Doc Feedback forms to voice concerns, excitement, complaints etc

https://www.reddit.com/r/WhiteWolfRPG/comments/1vba1u4/v6_playtest_feedback_form/

What I just don't get is that who they are making this for.

There are parts that are here to clearly appeal to the old grognards like me. Bringing back some of the more unique disciplines for example. But everything else doesn't appeal or just straight up repulsive to them. Like removing Protean to make Animalism less shitty.

There are parts for V5 fans...I think but most stuff they die is basically spitting at their face too. Like bringing back unique disciplines, killing the Hecate etc.

Then there are everything else for the most casual D&D to try this game. Simplified everything (but complex on other parts), ST is treated like a force to be limited and controlled but also guided rather than actual ST/DM and players are his enemies.

Who is this for?

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>>98432200
I mean, I'm just going to assemble a Mina in all but the name next time I play V20 with somebody, get her a dumb little artifact pistol courtesy of her riches, all that, because at this point I honestly kind of want to, she'd be an entertainingly annoying shitter to play. Connections, money, some power but a nobody in the vampiric world, and exceptionally frustrated about it, plus low humanity and a complete bitch in personality. What's not to love, this sort of character creates entertainment by her mere presence.

I'll never run this playtest, it's not worth my time or the time of the group I'd have to assemble for it. Though I can't wait to see the actual post-playtest V6 either come out a year later than intended and be a backpedaling off of all sorts of things people here and on everywhere else hate about it, or essentially just be this same halfbaked product but mildly polished.

>>98432208
Exceptionally relatable, mostly on the Drifter end because I've been mainly running carpet Celeste last few weeks and she essentially invalidates Mina as a character, a person, and an aerial ult spammer. Drifter's a nightmare though.

>>98432213
>I think the devs are actually here
I'd not bet on it, but if they are, please, White Wolf. I beg of you.
Change your new Generation-age thing which makes it so a neonate is always a high-generation schlub, and an elder is always low-generation and strong. It's just dumb and cuts into variability and options for coteries and stories for no reason. You even admit it's nonsense where you say that, technically, vamps who are of a low generation but also young age exist, and you'd need to talk to the Storyteller to figure out how to run that. You essentially just commit to a mildly common early player/skimreader mistake and canonizing it, which is silly.

>>98432223
I just said what's in the book, slightly paraphrased. You become detached from the conflict of man and beast, and from the pleasures and troubles of the mortal world, and decide to pursue Golconda (should that be the option you wish). That's just what's on the page. The only reason to think that's a defense is if you think that sounds cool but that's just what the book says. If you think that sounds shit then it's not a defense because it's just what the book says. I explained how Golconda works in the context of too much humanity to someone who hasn't read it. Stop being a sperg, take your pills, seethe, cope, concede, etc.

One one hand, Blood Resonance felt a little shallow. I'm not sad it's gone. On the other hand, I wouldn't mind it coming back expanded. Give me mechanics for being a blood wine snob with V:TM: Cainite's Cookbook, 101 ways to harvest, store, and prepare Vitae.

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>>98432233
You could at least keep people from having to go to r*ddit by posting the links themselves:


Long Feedback Response: https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSebF_RGBULMOlqFH1KGzShQ3F6CBmgsWveED1p9uswjGkxK_w/viewform
Short Feedback Response: https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSdrj-iLPF-446XDlMR4wQcVdYBs7C2NrZDML-5QQ5y_copXJg/viewform

>Can’t play as an 8th gen Neonate anymore
AAAAAIIIIIIIIIEEEEEEEEEEEEEE SAVE ME FELLOW POWER PLAYERS SAVE ME

>>98432243
I think it's just for the same people these are always for. People who like Vampire but aren't into edition warring about it so play whichever. People who didn't like the old edition and might like a change. People who did like the old edition but are open to having a new experience. And then people who just like urban fantasy sexy vampire times or are curious about vampire and want a new jumping in point. It's not gonna win over every diehard vampire fan but I don't think anything ever would.

>>98432243
It kind of reads like an attempt to put whatever they like of V5 and V20 into a blender, simplify the result, and make it playable to the wider non-WoDhead masses so that if they get a Critical Roll caliber success, the average player group won't have to invest time into working around past the less convenient parts of V20 and V5. The Drama points are clearly a scaffolding to let somebody who's not really experienced at being a Storyteller keep things organized and moving with a system to it, for instance. I'd imagine a new Storyteller could appreciate having a system like this, at least in concept, instead of having to come up with things on the fly. I still think adding it at all is just weird at best, dumb at worst, but I can see the possible value of it.

The 'this is a watered down and streamlined version of WoD with enough flavor to try and keep both V20 and V5 fans while not scaring away normies with Totentanz' theory has a lot of holes though, like the good boy points systems being this complex, the weapons being so shallow and shitty that you might a well not try to offer the game to people who like a bit of variety to equipment, etc.

>>98432254
No it's okay, you can just eat three thinbloods and go down from 11th to 8th. Unless I am blind nothing in the rules say the victim of your diablerie has to be lower generation than you, so.

>>98432243
It's for everyone.
>WoD fans
>CofD fans
>newcomers
>people who quit the franchise ages ago

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>>98432254
My brother in Caine, just use the superior rules.
Always.

What vibe is V6 supposed to invoke?

>>98432245
I'm of two minds about the generations thing. I like the granularity of how it's been in the past, but I like how the assumptions of V6 aid in balancing some stuff and I don't think I've ever seen a radically mixed gen coterie before. I've not read enough to know what really changes there though. There might be a sidebar on it that talks about the technicalities in setting

>>98432284
Same as the rest. Buffy, Twilight, and Supernatural but with more sex fuckin'. Which is weird, since Vampires can't fuck.

>>98432275
>for everybody
Finally an edition for neonazis. Glad they're walking back that exclusion. Can't wait to get in touch with the local skinheads so we can pretend to be petite goth vampire girls together.

>>98432028
Their idea of fucking the Tremere over was... giving them Necromancy for no reason. They are not fooling anyone.

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>>98432291
>Can't wait to get in touch with the local skinheads so we can pretend to be petite goth vampire girls together.

>>98432284
It's somewhere around V20 (a lot of V5's assumptions are rolled back) but with a lot more conflict between Man and Beast and the way some resources work read as "mounting tension is important" but a lot of the fluff isn't here yet

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Leeches this, namers that. I just want to frolick with my packmates for Gaia's sake.

>>98432281
>superior rules
that's not Requiem

>>98432284
The "I asked ChatGPT for recent trends in narrative-focused TTRPGs and tried to graft them onto WoD, frankenstein style" vibe

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V6 Tremere’s Clan Curse better be the inability to Blood Bond anyone to themselves, just saying.

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>>98432284
>What vibe is V6 supposed to invoke?
Trying to be a decent person is just as bad as giving in to the Beast.

>>98432284
i guess the vibe of bigger vampires trying to move in on your stuff? really hard to say with the play test

sire and childe relationship might be more important than before given that this is where you get your additonal discipline point from now

>>98432066
The more I think about it, the more I feel like Beast was the main inspiration. High and low both give you different bonuses, reaching max is basically game over.

>>98432229
>..really? Like, confirmed?
as much a anything a anon says can be taken as a confirmation

there was a thread where op pretty much advertised a ending kickstarter about something with titans and later a anon who was presumably the op just admitted that they should have switched some goals because now they have to make some less important stuff while some more interesting stuff is left out of the book and talked with other anons about why the kickstarter might not hit all goals

>>98432229
Dave Brookshaw, the writer of Mage the Awakening 2e used to be a namefag here, and he was already working there. I think there were a few others who also posted with names.

>>98432311
I think it's more of a case that the PC that's radically committed to being as human as possible is probably not that interesting in the long term. In the same way ending up as a murder hobo wight isn't that fun after a while. A lot of the interesting bits are in the struggle and if you're no longer struggling then maybe that's a fitting ending point. It's one of those things that feels like a player goal to me in the same way Golconda is and when you hit it there isn't a whole lot of Vampire left. So if it's mid-chronicle it might be better to reroll. Not that I think it's doing an exceptionally clean job of it right now but I get the idea, I think.

>>98432273
>The 'this is a watered down and streamlined version of WoD with enough flavor to try and keep both V20 and V5 fans while not scaring away normies with Totentanz' theory has a lot of holes though
It's "simplified" from the perspective of a grognard but it's honestly stupidly complicated from the perspective of a narrative game for theater kids.
Like why the fuck is there action/bonus action/reaction economy for, the number one thing I've seen new players have trouble with in DnD? Yes it's not a COMPLEX complex idea but there is literally no need here for it. It's rules bloat by definition, even if it doesn't register as rules bloat to someone who played DnD a hundred times already.

>>98432245
>Change your new Generation-age thing which makes it so a neonate is always a high-generation schlub, and an elder is always low-generation and strong. It's just dumb and cuts into variability and options for coteries and stories for no reason. You even admit it's nonsense where you say that, technically, vamps who are of a low generation but also young age exist, and you'd need to talk to the Storyteller to figure out how to run that. You essentially just commit to a mildly common early player/skimreader mistake and canonizing it, which is silly.
perhaps put a "max +1" limiter on the generation modifier based on age

so a lowgen neonate has a max generation modifier of +2 instead of +1
that same vampire when they become a ancillae either stay at +2 if they are 9th gen or gain a +3 if they 8th ot 6th and so forth

>>98432248
I'm gonna tell them that trying to tie skills to backgrounds like it's D&D is retarded.

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>>98432343
>I think it's more of a case that the PC that's radically committed to being as human as possible is probably not that interesting in the long term.
Sins of the Blood had some of the best pages ever written not just on Golconda, but on Vampire in general, particularly 24 to 30.

>>98432360
sins of the blood is in general a fun book

i got a lot out of the Thrill Kill Club aka the vampire ashwood abbey in a game that was roughly a decade ago that featured them as main antagonists

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>>98432028
>wtf why don't Tremere players want to rebel against the pyramid?!?
>it's a fascist slaver organization that binds you to it for eternity!!
>who cares if it provides shelter, resources, payment, and a purpose other than being a backstabbing murderer!?!

>>98432386
I just think the replacement for morality, which is no longer a morality system, as it alters the nature of a Kindred and a number of mechanics, naturally leads players in the direction of the Beast. It's not that a temptation being there is a bad thing, it's that it devolves everything to The Path of What I Was Going to Do Anyway which Chaining the Beast preached against.
Cue players speedrunning their descent to Monstrous 2 to get powerful Disciplines, skipping all the interesting philosophical commitment and moral degeneration needed to reject Humanity to actually walk a Path of Enlightenment in the previous editions.
Chaining the Beast, Sins of the Blood and State of Grace are effectively thrown out of the window in the name of a distorted fence sitting, which places the fence right next to the Wights.
A powerplaying game of becoming a horror, but in moderation.

At least there's no V6 caitiff...yet...

>>98432301
>frolick with my packmates
We put chemicals into everything, you will be infertile :)

>every Skill gets at least one specialty (although they call it a focus)
That's so weird, but... I don't hate it?

>>98432028
Yes, fuck the Tremere.
Fuck the Ventrue.
Fuck the Toreador.
Fuck the Brujah.
Hell, fuck the Salubri.
This is a game about being someone who must hurt other people to survive. It is about BEING A BAD GUY

>>98431531
wow, that is a truly ugly character sheet!
and you can tell from looking at it how badly they've mangled abilities, humanity, and disciplines!

>>98432427
Stop! i can only fuck so many vampires at once anon!

>>98432400
It also completely ignores the whole blood-bonding aspect. The overwhelmingly vast members of the pyramid wants to maintain the pyramid because they are blood-bonded and thus supremely devoted on a deep emotional level to the domitor at the next rung of the pyramid.
>but those feelings aren't reeeaaaaaaal!!
What the fuck does that even mean? No, seriously, in context, being blood-bonded, what the fuck does "real" feelings even mean?

I understand a Tremere coming out of a blood-bond after decades feeling disgusted and betrayed, at least if their domitor was an asshole. But the possibility that a domitor *can* choose to *not* be an asshole aside, that still just flat-out ignores the fact that a Tremere that is still part of the Pyramid should not want to rebel against the pyramid.

>>98432409
It is explicitly listed as one of the major things, so expect the retarded caitiffwank to continue, as well ass fellating thinbloods.

>>98432409
They're [In Development]

>>98432435
it goes even deeper than that. i think the revised prince book and blood magic book plus the tiny bit they have in the v20 anarch are good insights into house tremere

young tremere are not just blood bond they are given the understanding that even their mind might be read and altered by their regent and that this is fair price that they agreed to pay for what they will be after their apprenticeship ends although the anarch tremere that is a recuring pov in the anarch books disagrees and tells the implied group of vampires he is talking to that most wouldn't like to pay it

>>98432346
Bloat and complexity are different things. I'd say they are dumbing things down and removing complexity while adding needless bloat. Which is funny, because this will just scare off the people afraid of the former, because they can't tell the difference, they just go "woah woah that's a lot of text! xD".

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>>98432445
* the anarch tremere that is a recuring pov in the revised books

>>98432445
Anyone outside the pyramid are Antitribu and were wiped out. This cuck does not speak for us.

>>98432445
>>98432452
Yeah it's a bitch, obviously, and I can see how it seems awful to everyone *outside* the pyramid, but while you're actually *in it* its a price you're happy to pay.

And honestly, outside of particularly heinous elders, how bad could it possibly be, especially compared to what neonates suffer anyway.

>>98432400
Unironically the pyramid are a huge part of why I like Tremere, it gives them the feeling of being stuck in a siege mentality against the world which makes sense because they usurped kindred powers and no one trusts them etc. Turning them into carefree wholesome magic sidekicks ruins them entirely.

honestly with the way alternative powers in the playtest work paths might be a nerf and exp sink

in the playtest you can buy the alternative powers for a reduced price if you already have the dots and all of these powers grow if you get dots in the discipline for no extra cost

so now every discipline can have in theory hundreds of powers and be as bloated as blood sorcery for a faction of the price it's really just up to the authors to not overdo it with bloat

Will the V6 Anarchs finally admit to themselves they're just remaking another Camarilla with different Clans?

>>98432048
only kinda?

>>98432468
If they were capable of introspection they wouldn't be Anarchs.

>>98432462
>it gives them the feeling of being stuck in a siege mentality against the world
Indeed, and it nearly justifies their attitude barring the occasional psychotic overbearing domestically abusive sire. So what if you're expected to lick boots to survive? As if the rest of vampire existence isn't the exact same thing lol
>Turning them into carefree wholesome magic sidekicks ruins them entirely.
100%. That siege mentality exists for a twofold purpose, not just to oppress you but also to keep you from being your coterie's bitch. The Pyramid may crush you under its weight but if anyone fucks with you that weight shifts violently to protect you. House & Clan don't fuck around when their own are in danger.

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>>98432229
I think you misunderstand, it's not that we're "that big of a deal" or that Paradox "send people" here, interns or otherwise. It's just that we're an open forum in ways most places are not; they can actually engage with people and get genuine opinions, and this still matters to some developers and writers, nevermind developers and writers are people too, and some do actually take an interest in their products. It is not at all beyond the pale that they would be here, and that these news would pull in more of them than usual at the same time.

But they are also people, so they will be reflexively defensive over what they have invested effort into, even if that effort has been sabotaged by mandates of various kinds. It is not that every single person working at Paradox is retarded. Sometimes it's just that good people are put to work on good projects with bad mandates and bad managers, making bad product, and when criticized they take that criticism personally and circle the wagons rather than to deflect the blame to the ones that deserve it; the managers, the marketing department, human resources, the dangerhair mafia, etc.

>>98432468
>describe the sabbat
>say anarch

>>98432487
Other way around. Sabbat are just Anarchs with extra steps.

>>98432360
Sins of the Blood is a great book (remember when Achilli knew what made a good one?) but that's not core book musings. It's a really good expansion on some core book ideas but ultimately ends up in a similar place. Once you hit the goal it's pretty final. You off yourself, you become a nomad, you live with the wolves, or other things that are not really the thrust of an arc but the conclusion of your story. Goals like that are pretty much always the end of the road. V6 ends before Golconda and it can, and should, do more for it later but I don't think the philosophies here are that different. Both games know these sorts of points should be final because if it's not you've just sorta hit a dead end and dead ends aren't interesting in the long term. V6 gives you less road to hit that dead end, and it isn't going to take as much dedication, but it does still take effort and intent from what I can see. It's not a thing you trip into, it's a thing you will yourself to do, and so most of the emergent stories will be in the process of getting there and there isn't a lot else to do but stay there afterwards. It's the same thing as being a wight. Once you hit rock bottom you can't really go down much further and the fun is in the fall. You could do a redemption story but those are tricky to pull off in my opinion because they take a lot of time to do well. Your PC needs to convincingly change their outlook and moral code to climb back up. If they even get the chance. I don't know if the dualistic morality system will feel good at the table yet but I don't really have a problem with a high morality end point because I never had a problem with Golconda. It's not as interesting as Golconda but I also think Golconda is a thing for later books where it can have more room to be explored.

>>98429504
>At any point in a scene, you can rile your Beast or Nature and pull power from it (no action required), gaining 1 Willpower and marking off a box on that tracker.
So changing your morality in either direction is a free action? What's stopping me from simply moving 1 step towards Nature +gain 1 Willpower whenever I do a "Monstrous Act"?

>>98432461
Yeah not counting the auspex based mind reading it's not at all unlike what a neonate ventrue has to go through just with blood magic and a small group of rivals to suffer with you instead of 50 years of being stuck in a office building mostly alone with your sire while learning etiquette and the like

>>98432360
I especially liked the part where it called out the "a beast I am lest a beast I become" deal as a load of horseshit. If WoD God wasn't a dick Nehemiah would have got a second shot when he sailed out to sea.

>>98432507
Is WoD God real? Who can say?

>>98432513
The Demons are pretty adamant about it even if they don't know what happened with God after their little kerfuffle.

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>>98432462
I agree with this 100%. The pyramid and a Tremere's character's relation to it, as well as the pyramid's central importance to the Tremere as a setting fixture, are all tremendously important to making the Tremere the Tremere. The whole "le heckin free tremere menses magic anti-fascism haha BUT NOT SABBAT NO that'd be too far haha" is intensely cringe.

It is completely permissible to have Tremere that attempt to rebel against the pyramid as their blood-bond fails. It is perfectly alright to have Tremere pulled out of the pyramid, "saved", and then forced into taking refuge with the Sabbat through the Vinculum. There are many different paths and stories. But the pyramid still needs to be there. It can't just be "thehee I found a spell that just let me break blood bonds no biggie".

Like shit, I can easily see people that would be spooked even after a blood-bond breaks and wanting to return to the pyramid and its safety, unless they had a particularly harrowing experience in it.

Blood-bonding is psychologically jarring if it is forced upon you, but to those eased into it or that aren't particularly opposed to whatever they are made to do, there's no sudden whiplash or feelings of disgust or regret, it just sort of fades and at best you may question why you were so into the domitor at times. But you also have no reason *not* to be, especially when you have been groomed (in the true meaning of that word) into a (very warranted) siege mentality.

Tremere may be a pyramid, but they are also one of the few clan structures that have both a) genuine systemic structure, and b) are willing to go to bat for their assets with a real "they put one of ours in the hospital we put two of theirs in the morgue" hierarchy, because they genuinely truly can't take threats lightly or consider them isolated incidents.

>>98432516
please don't even mention demons in the same convo as v6

after how much they fucked up infernalism in v5 i am scared

>>98432491
That's the joke, anon. In oWoD the anarch movement is part of the Camarilla, while the original anarch revolt that refused went on to form the Sabbat, i.e. another Camarilla but with blackjack and hookers and masquerade breeches.

The anarch movement being its own formalized sect is so monumentally fucking stupid precisely because it wouldn't actually change anything unless the anarchs actually want to form their own system of governance and establish and enforce new traditions, at which point they'd just be another Camarilla anyway.

>>98431708
>Salubri have Auspex, Fortitude, Obfuscate
Does Fortitude have sub-powers that heal others? How do V6 Salubri heal people?
>Tzimisce don't have Auspex
bruh

but which anarch movement are we going to get
v20's "we want to create a clanless society and are trying to figure out how that might work" or v5's "we are a sect with anarch clans and really want to beat the camarilla to ensure our own freedom"

>>98432544
>at which point they'd just be another Camarilla anyway.
If they manage to shake the informal traditions of being unpredictable with rewards so they can't build up their stuff and have to be kissassing for a maybe, playing neonates against each other to ensure they can't get along, setting them up to get killed on dangerous jobs if they do get along, blood bonding if that fails and then killing them if they avoid that then they'd still be an improvement over the Camarilla.

>>98432552
the latter plus they're a neo-camarilla in denial
you're a sellout only when you aid another sect, not when you do exactly the same things a prince or their retainers do

>>98432552
>v20's "we want to create a clanless society and are trying to figure out how that might work" or v5's "we are a sect with anarch clans and really want to beat the camarilla to ensure our own freedom"
The quote about them working out what winning looks like feels like it should point to the former but I would expect the latter out of pessimism.

>>98432545
>Does Fortitude have sub-powers that heal others? How do V6 Salubri heal people?
yes actually it does Restore Limb and Shared Resilience but that means you can also now play a ventrue and gangrel healer

and as of the playtest i don't see anything that allows you to heal wounds smaller than a broken limp but that might be handled with clan powers

>>98432284
The answer you’d probably get from the devs is “what are vibes?”

>>98432545
That shit will probably be on the clan itself. V6 clams get a handful of traits they can learn that function like exclusive merits, powers, or combination disciplines. Res does have Restore Limb, and Shared Resilience at 2 dots but the former needs you to be Res 5 before it'll work on others, and the latter is just damage reduction.

>>98432497

The weird part about the complains they have about the too beast or too humane system is that in reality most storytellers in my experience don't want you to be low humanity or too high on humanity. That and people typically use paths as a means to avoid having to deal with the humanity system if it's annoying enough.

I generally think most players won't agree on how humanity vs the beast should be handled expect for broad strokes. I think the V6 simplifying can work, but they won't make anyone happy. I'm honestly not sure if people would have hated it more if they just removed humanity as a mechanic.

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>>98432526
It is inevitable anon.
They're coming for us all.

>>98432572
>>98432545
My mistake. Restore limb at Res 3 heals mangled limbs, Res 5 restores limbs fully. Although the base power itself seems to be a copy paste error from Unswayable Mind.

>>98432526
Demons? You mean edgy Changelings?

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Okay but serious now, what the actual fuck did they mean by this?
>Marking off a box on the Beast tracker represents the urges of your Beast growing stronger. Each night, its growling gets louder, and each act of hedonism or animalistic hunger for blood or desire empowers it
>. Every time you see a chance to satisfy your impulses or act on your beliefs, take it; giving a side what it wants, before it takes control by force, is the only way to hold it in check for a while. When you perform an activity that is aligned to either your [Monstrous] or [Mortal] side, erase 1 marked-off box on its respective tracker, regaining that box.
"Act of hedonism of desire" = empowers beast = +1 box
"Giving the beast what it wants = satisfies beasts = -1 box
BUT WHAT THE FUCK IS THE DIFFERENCE
Like, killing someone during feeding is +1
BUT THAT'S GIVING THE BEAST WHAT IT WANTS THAT IS ALIGNED WITH THE BEAST so it's also -1 box

>>98432552
You're going to get the gWoD version and you know it. There is absolutely no indication that they are going back to the oWoD anarch movement.

>>98432560
I think that that quote sounds very much like the latter, not the former, because it's a classic Anarchist/Marxist cop-out where 'freedom' is never defined and it's just like we're going to have to see when we win against le heckin' fascists, meanwhile building oppressive structures of their own.

It's less that I want the anarchs to be ideologically consistent or anything like that, by the way - the anarchs are traditionally a hodge-podge and that makes sense in the context of oWoD at least - it's just that the oWoD anarchs at least fought for something, whether they were Communists or Fascists or Anarchists or what-have-you, the figuring it out was part of the movement.

>>98432579
>New Demon and Changeling versions
They'll never mishandle Mummy! Mainly because they won't touch mummy at all.

>>98432590
The morality stuff is easily the most alpha content imo but I think the idea is about self-control. Killing, feeding too deeply, and riling the beast mark a box because it's all hasty, passionate action. While taking your time to do something monstrous will soothe it because you're being deliberate or methodical in your indulgence. Without giving them too much credit I think it's trying to capture that "a beast I am lest a beast I become" thing. You have to do beastly things to slowly release that tension, or else it'll boil over and you frenzy. The wording is really not very clear but I think that's the general idea. Which doesn't not work for Vampire but I think there needs to be more there to justify it.

>>98432693
Oh shit, the prince just called. He's flying back from Jerusalem RIGHT NOW! We gotta clean this place up before he gets back or we're DEAD MEAT!

>>98432720
oh shit johnny actually wants to fight that guy for the domain

>>98432693
dude had the most bizarre death in the Gehenna novel

>>98432744
Didn't Beckett end the novel with sudoku? Jack would hardly be the only one with a weird end.

>>98432750
>Didn't Beckett end the novel with sudoku?
He wants to see one last sunrise before the end of the world yeah. Keep in mind this is during Gehenna itself when the Antediluvians are massacring everyone so he didn't have long left anyway.
>Jack would hardly be the only one with a weird end.
Jack allows himself to be killed by a Nossie assassin while tending to his ghoul tomatoes. No, really, he was growing tomatoes and feeding them his blood to see if it would change them. It worked.

>>98432523
That's why the pyramid collapsed in my game, and Tremere are just as rare as Salubri.
I don't have the mental energy to deal with the bullshit from the Tremere fans.

>>98432769
>Ghoul tomatoes
Surely nothing would go wrong with this idea.

>>98432693
>Guess who's back from the Middle East!
>Nah it was all a big misunderstanding. The antediluvians were really cool about it. Look at this selfie I got with Tzimisce, Lasombra, and Ventrue.
>Yeah, Caine was there too! He's a lot less intimidating in person but he has a very spooky aura. He's the one who accidentally called us all there to begin with
>Dracula? Yeah but he was all aloof and spent most of the time hanging out with the Methuselahs