>>98515059
>This means the name /osrg/ is somewhat misleading, but that's their problem
I love how this thread exists purely to make over osrg
I also love how this thread is totally not a general, but you will have two of them on the board at all times, and will post them well in advance before the other threads are dead

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>>98515059
>TQ
carrion crawlers remain my favorite. They really feed into that ecosystem vibe and are scary . Cloakers are fun too.

>>98515059
>>Is this a general?
>No,
>Previous Thread
you lying fucking piece of shit, this IS a general
why do you pretend otherwise?

>>98515086
>mald over osrg
FTFY

>>98515149
Shit, I didn't notice, thanks lmO

lets define OSR once for all. a TRUE osr game has absolutely zero skill or attribute checks. none. zero. if your DM ever asks you to "roll under dex" to jump a pit, it's not OSR. the only abstraction you ever need is x-in-6, and outside of combat you only ever touch the dice to avoid sudden danger like a trap or poison, never to actually do something successfully. you use your actual real life brain to solve problems instead of pushing a button on your sheet.

here is the objective truth of dnd history:

OD&D (1974): TRUE OSR. pure d6s, no thief class to ruin puzzle solving.
Greyhawk (1975): NOT OSR. added the thief and percentile skills. the exact moment the hobby died.
Holmes Basic: NOT OSR. suggested rolling under stats. gateway drug to the modern rot.
AD&D 1e: NOT OSR. mechanical bloat, thief skills, secondary skills creeping in.
B/X: NOT OSR. explicitly codified "roll under ability score" in the book. baby's first tourist trap.
BECMI: NOT OSR. more b/x rot and added a literal skill system in the later boxes.

>>98515514
This is clearly a real, genuine post and not fishy at all

>>98515682
No, i'm not going to go to that thread that drastically changed the OP. Cry wolf elsewhere.

>>98515816
You're the one who drastically changed the OP when you stole the real thread's title. But I'm not talking to you, I'm talking to the staff.

>>98515059
>TQ
Does anyone else use Darkmantles that often?

>>98515059
When running b2 should i start players at the keep or the caves of chaos?

>>98515514
This is a meme but watch /osrg/ deperson BECMI because it's "not OSR"
>>98515112
Are there any similar monsters that fulfill the scavenging role?

>>98515514
>lets define OSR once for all.
The problem is that there's several different OSRs. They all share the same acronym, but have different goals, different definitions, and different people working in different eras, often operating in parallel in different spaces on the internet. All the different eras never really disappeared, they've just been merged together while different people try to reinvent/re-establish what OSR means.

The first era would be the Old School Revival.
That's where the goal was to address Old School (Games before 3e) games being out of print. This movement tried petitioning WotC, making their own games, and making retro-clones. This whole movement became largely obsolete when WotC decided to just reprint the older editions and make them available online, both in PDF and PoD formats.
This was in the era after 3e's release, and grew in proportion as 3e's popularity waned.

The second era would be the Old School Retardation.
This is the era where G+ became some sort of cesspool for talentless people to try and sell retroclones, deliberately trying to build up a cult-like mentality. Thankfully, most of this has died and been forgotten with even their records disappearing with the death of G+, but some of its scars remain on the OSR, in the form of deeply retarded losers.
This was when 4e was dying and even watched Essentials fizzle out, but before 5e had hit the scene.

The 3rd era would be the Old School Revenue.
This is when 5e's complete dominance over RPGs began to fade, and where kickstarter proved you could make a good amount of money with some rudimentary graphic design skills and an old ruleset. This is also when OSR actually became a name that people cared about from a financial position, because OSR became a very marketable/searchable term.

>>98521390
Also, remember when There was attempt st making the wOkeSR via SWORDDREAM or whatever that was for a brief moment?

>>98521390
>Old School (Games before 3e)
Wrong.

>>98521444
It is, now go cry about it on your blog lmao

>>98521444
That's how everyone on Dragonsfoot was defining it, and what people were discussing at the time there. Plenty of documentation to prove that, ranging from still existing forum posts to documents trying to explain what the OSR was.
https://pdfcoffee.com/a-quick-primer-for-old-school-gaming-pdf-free.html

There were people within the OSR who tried to use a wider/narrower definition, but pre-WotC, pre-3e, pre-2000 are some of the most common definitions used.

One notable group that disagreed were the Knights & Knaves Alehouse, a couple dozen men, who tried to establish the working definition of OSR as being OD&D and AD&D1e only, excluding 2e, B/X, and BECMI. Since many of these people were 1e purists, they had a particular dislike for 2e, and some of this managed to carry over into parts of the Old School Retardation era, and from there some of those have carried that even to this day.

>>98521474
>there some of those have carried that even to this day.
Thats the whole reason the /osrg/ got it's OP text altered to push this 1e purist definition, by people like that. It's why this thread exists, because we needed a space away from their attempts to silence discussion and create a circlejerk echochamber.

the debate won't end because it's built on Gygax's original, unsolvable contradiction. he tried to bolt the strict logistical bean counting of his wargaming roots onto the sweeping, character driven pulp of Appendix N, and the two are fundamentally incompatible. the entire scene is just people arguing over which half of Gary's foundational contradiction they prefer to ignore.

>>98521534
>the entire scene is just people arguing over which half of Gary's foundational contradiction they prefer to ignore.
What about all the people who don't pretend there's a false dichotomy? They're not as loud as the people constantly arguing, but that's generally how neighborhoods are.

>the two are fundamentally incompatible.
I don't think so. There's just some people with no natural charisma who hate it when the game is anything but numbers, and people without even rudimentary math skills who just want to use the game time to air out their emotions.

Most people don't exist in those two extremes though.

>>98515853
Yo we got a real life Karen here lol.

>>98522492
youre the one who went running to the mods on irc

>>98521474
>There were people within the OSR who tried to use a wider/narrower definition, but pre-WotC, pre-3e, pre-2000 are some of the most common definitions used.
Those all mean the same thing.

>>98521474
>everyone on Dragonsfoot
we dont give a fuck

>>98523215
But anon, people somewhere else say a thing, apparently, so therefore you are obligated to agree with them!

>>98523215
>we
You.
Also, it's not just Dragonsfoot, it's basically that way everywhere. Dragonsfoot was mentioned because that was a place that was pretty important when the OSR began.

You probably weren't a part of that initial wave.

>>98522931
>>98523215
>>98523231
Stop bumping the thread and faking activity for him, niggers. Just leave him alone in here, when the thread had ten posts he'd already had to bamp it off page 10 twice. That's much funnier.

>>98523242
>everywhere
go literally anywhere else instead of being cancer here, then

>>98523272
I didn't bump it

>>98521500
>we

>>98523281
That's ironic/. You already have two dead threads for you to bump for weeks and have as your little hugboxes, but it seems like you'd rather spend your time talking to real people outside of them.

>>98522931
Why dont you run back to seethe on your blog lol

>>98521287
>Are there any similar monsters that fulfill the scavenging role?

Gelatinous Cubes remain the best answer for "Why is this corridor so clean and spotless?"

>>98523299
>>98523303
why dont you go crying to the mods on irc again lol

>>98521287
>Are there any similar monsters that fulfill the scavenging role
ever bothered to read the books?

>>98523335
There's like a couple hundred OSR books.

>>98523272
As much as you guys whine otherwise, you can't help getting your digs in at the opposing boogeyman. Even if it means posting about them on a blog easily connected to your professional game design work.

You guys deserve eachother lol

>>98523355
>professional
I think that word only applies if you can make a living off of it.

>>98523355
>boogeyman
lmao, back to the classics I see

>>98523380
NTA, but what's your preferred way of describing a delusional effort of pretending you're only ever arguing with one person, all to try and make it look like fewer people disagree with you than the reality because your ideas are so unpopular that you think you need to use every basic bitch scummy trick you can think up?

>>98523349
So start with the monster manual and report back, nogame
>>98523355
eat shit and fuck off, fishfag

>>98523380
Don't get me confused with Fishfag, it's incredibly easy to see that both groups here accuse everyone of being the same boogeyman (Trollcow vs Fishfag, ACKS Discord vs Mongrel Banquet Club) for rhetorical convenience and as a reflection of their individual neuroses.

>>98523438
>ACKS Discord vs
weird, I just now searched the ACKS discord for both Mongrel Banquet Club / MBC and got zero (0) results. Curious!

>>98523438
The ACKS discord thing is real though.

>>98523455
I was saying both factions of this flame war accuse the other side of being off-site agents come to astroturf 4chan for political purposes, retard. I'm aware the Banquet Club and ACKS fan club don't actually give a shit about eachother and aren't actually using 4chan as a culture war battleground.

>>98523480
The thing is people from the ACKS discord actually are here and they're basically doing the same thing that got them banned from reddit.
We even have one self-admit he's part of the ACKS discord right in the middle of his agenda-fueled trolling. >>98523455

>>98523495
Fishfag, just because someone has joined a public Discord to gather evidence to try to win an internet argument doesn't mean they're part of a right wing conspiracy operating out of said Discord.

>>98523526
Pushing that Fishfag shit is the easiest way to immediately dissolve any reason to trust anything you might want to convince people of.

More importantly, ACKS getting banned from Reddit and then seeing sudden and clear efforts in shilling that game in an oddly aggressive fashion here is one of those weird coincidences that becomes even more strange when we have evidence of a guy who went around this board advertising ACKS in different unrelated generals (like the /5eg/ and the /3eg) right after the last ACKS kickstarter started.

It's not a right wing conspiracy. It's just people who got banned from one website for trolling/brigading/shilling/etc. in hopes of promoting some game, appearing on another website and trying to do the same thing.

Here. Let me see if you can reply honestly. Entirely hypothetically, put yourself in the ACKS discord's shoes. You just managed to get your game banned from Reddit. What's your next move? Where do you go?

>>98523591
>everyone who has successfully identified my bullshit must be stopped!
lol

>>98523603
>always distract with bullshit
Why even bother? Do you really not understand how dumb someone has to be to see your 'tricks' and not realize them for what they are?

The only sort of person who could be on board with that fishfag business would have to be someone that recognizes how much of an obvious lie it is but thinks that doesn't matter and just thinks that with enough volume it can drown out all the shit behind why you started calling everyone fishfag. That's not how it works though, it just manages to connect all the weird shit you've been doing on this board.

>>98523495
>he's in a public discord?
>one ive accused of raiding?
>but also has absolutely no mentions of the supposed victim?
fucking bozo

>>98523591
Hi fishfag

>>98523355
>still trying to turn a massive fail into a win by sheer force of bullshit
kek

>>98523480
Nobody accuses fishfag of being an 'off-site agent', you double retard. His entire problem is he won't leave 4chan even if there's a dozen places better suited to his wants.

>>98523665
>the acks-tard equivalent of calling someone a nazi when they lose an argument
Did you get called a nazi so often you started to think doing something like that could ever actually work?

>>98523636
Fish, all you have is dumb tricks. No one wants to engage with your garbage like trying to
>prove
bad intentions from your gang stalkers by pretending your ideas have merit.

>>98523703
Dude, you've been beaten to death in every argument about 2e for the past year, because all the evidence is against you. It's just a huge pile of evidence that your definition is dumb and most people don't agree with it, to the point where you've been begging everyone to just let you have your little corner of the internet where you could have your wrong definition. You have it, it's called the /osrg/, and instead of staying there you spend most of your time crying over people wanting to use the correct, widely understood definition that actually makes sense.

Even when one of you brought up one of your own blogs (because you can't find enough people outside of your circlejerk that agree with you) backfired because the guy included FG&G in his list of OSR games.

Let's face it. Zero tricks, pure argument, you'll lose. Every time. Hence, you try and use tricks and other dumb shit.

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>>98523736
>Dude, you've been beaten to death in every argument about 2e for the past year, because all the evidence is against you.
"Everybody else says it" is not evidence, it's an argument from popularity. You guys have lost every single debate about 2e being supposedly OSR, and then declared victory anyways, because you're massive Hickman-loving faggots.

>>98523736
You're doing the thing where you just keep repeating lies and wanting everyone to believe you. No one even bothers to read your posts at this point. Trying to engage with you in any manner beyond ridicule is the same futile slog as with any other malignant narcissist.
You can't even tell any of the different anons who hate you apart.
Try and explain what you think my position is. Or any of the others. You couldn't last thread and just ignored it to deflect about other things.

>>98523750
>"Everybody else says it" is not evidence,
When you're talking about definitions?

Are you utterly retarded?

>>98523756
That's nice and all, but you just posted OOPS! All Tricks! instead of an argument in response to a post that calls you out on always trying to do that in the face of all the evidence against you.

>>98523851
>can only uno card still
Is
>tricks
going to be your new obsession word this week? Did you just watch lotr and felt a kinship with the fish grasping gollumn?

>>98523876
>can't argue, tries to distract
You really are just nothing.

>>98523888
nou

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1.17 MB PNG

>>98523750
>"Everybody else says it" is not evidence, it's an argument from popularity.
No, see, when we're talking about something like what a community includes within a genre, you really don't have many avenues beyond asking the community. You can't just... I don't know, make something up and then demand everyone listen to that. That would be fucking stupid.

When you look at what the OSR community was posting about and what they considered OSR, it included 2e. It's really just that simple. Many people may have considered it "less old school" than other OSR systems, and that makes sense because it's the most modern of the old school D&D editions, but it's still firmly placed within the category. Everywhere you go, that's the truth of the matter, ranging from the major forums to the marketplaces to the conventions to just the common sense of everyone who isn't some weirdo who had 1e be his first game and had 2e be his personal "something was changed so I think everything sucks now" moment and hasn't yet grown up enough to realize that's all it is.

>>98523591
>Pushing that Fishfag shit is the easiest way to immediately dissolve any reason to trust anything you might want to convince people of.
>t. Syndactylic Ichthyosexual

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Which game has the best narrative mechanics?

>>98523910
>refuses to ask the local community
>tries to force its change
>gets booted out
>tries to make own separate community
>nothing but shitposting and crickets
>but its u gais that are teh wrong! muh greater concensus!
You continue to fail.
When beaten by one you just go back to shitpost at someone else.

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>>98523919
What in the world is a narrative mechanic?

>>98523736
>Dude, you've been beaten to death in every argument about 2e for the past year
You mean you've been impotently flobbling the same pathetically weak arguments about 2e for a year and screaming that you're winning.

This is exactly the same as you getting absolutely fucking wrecked down to the foundations by Simulacrum and reacting by claiming you won. You can't pass delulu on to others, it's not an airborne infection, you ridiculous schizo.

>>98523930
A miserable pile of procedures. But enough talk, Roll+Parley to Discern Strings and Hooks!

>>98523933
>for a year
Longer than that, to hear him tell it, he's been here since the earliest OSR threads when people still told him to fuck off and that 2e was not OSR.

>>98523924
You keep just making stuff up and hoping that if you lie enough, it'll someday stick.
All while in a thread where you have to spend countless hours trying to figure out how to shut it down and making everyone know that you are doing your best to appear and disrupt any discussion as soon as it begins, because you're scared of people outside of your hugbox discussing OSR in the manner everywhere else does. That's how fragile your definition is.

Truth endures. If you ever actually try to take the high road and juststay in your little personal private "community", you know that you'll eventually have to face the fact that all your efforts were for naught, hence why you're still here, trying to do whatever it is you imagine you're doing. If your plan is just to constantly troll and disrupt and hope that these threads will disappear, then I really wonder how long you're going to have to keep trying to do that. From my point of view, it really seems like you've signed up to do this forever.

>>98523933
Simulacrum revealing that there's so few of you that you have to use each other as sources remains one of the funniest things ever to happen in this whole shitfest, and it gets better when he still couldn't resolve the paradox of trying to say 2e is not OSR while including FG&G as an OSR system.

>>98523982
Holy shit, you're really running with this "I tried to twist somebody's words around to support me and then he told me to fuck off, and that means I won" angle, huh?
Reminder that you were the one who cited him as an authoritative source on OSR, right up until he told you off, and now he's a nobody blogger who is allegedly a troll who is totes banned from everywhere, don't question it! Doesn't that abrupt 180 on your part cause you any tiny smidgen of shame or cognitive dissonance?

>>98523972
>All while in a thread where you have to spend countless hours trying to figure out how to shut it down
Niggy, you had to bump this thread off page 10 twice in the first ten posts. Nobody needs to do shit to shut this down, they just like to bear-bait you. This thread is the post you're chained to.

>>98523996
>I tried to twist somebody's words around
You mean reading the source someone provided and finding that it supported the opposite conclusion? That's just good argumentation.

>Reminder that you were the one who cited him as an authoritative source on OSR
Wrong, bucko.
Check this out.
https://archive.4plebs.org/tg/thread/98426331/#q98456450
This was the first and only guy who would bring up Simulacrum as a source.

What was done was actually reading it, and discovering that the guy didn't actually exclude 2e, and in fact even included a 2e clone as one of his "true retroclones."

And then, we had Simulacrum reveal he was arguing that day by editing his blog to leave no doubt that he was in that thread arguing, and likely was even the very guy who wanted to describe himself as a "clear, definitive offsite resource."

I understand how painful this must all be for you, but even you have to admit, that's pretty fucking funny.

>>98524018
Friend, I personally post in these threads maybe every 3-5 days. Don't act like I'm in charge of keeping them afloat.

>>98524032
>This was the first and only guy who would bring up Simulacrum as a source.
Nonsense, he's been cited over and over for years, even on /r/osr where they think OSR is a vibe