Has anyone successfully run a 3.5e open table? At FLGS or online, either one. As a west marches game, ideally. What kind of rules did you have? How did you structure it? Was it E6? E10? How did you make sure every session ended in town? How did you keep the game from getting cheesed?

>>98558588
>TQ
September 2024.
Yeah, really.

>>98558588
>When's the last time you actually rolled a Swim check? Be honest.
I remember DMing for my dad and brother and my dad's barbarian had to swim down to retrieve a key to unlock a door. Then he got attacked by a crocodile and took 1d12 damage from it's tail slap, before getting back above water and critting it with his great sword.

>>98558655
What did he roll on the check

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Is there a compilation of 'free' feats anywhere, like the otyughs hole or froggod's fane, or faustian pacts as was mentioned last thread, etc?

>>98559819
As is often the case for questions of this ilk, gitp forum is typically your best bet - https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?400840-List-of-Feat-Granting-Items-Locations-Grafts

>>98559221
I figured just swimming down and grabbing something under 15 feet of water would be just a DC 15 check. Most of the croc fight was when he was wading in shallow water near the dock in the underground smugglers cove.

Is it just me, or is archmage kind of bad? Arcane fire should probably be a reserve feat, and while burning five spell slots is not as rough as incantrix making you piss off a third school, or maybe the prismatic jew ability of io7v being resistable or dispellable, those have better rewards by a whisker and a bomb threat.

>>98558588
A couple sessions ago
We're playing Savage Tide and someone fell overboard

>>98560689
Some of their abilities are shitty but the class is overall better than base classes, if not up to the standards of Red Wizard Iot7V or Incantatrix. Spell Power is good, SLA is great, Shaping can be used for annoying cheese with AMF. Elements is alright.

>>98560689
AF remains as is but is now a level 1 feature for free. The abilities don't cost spell slots and the arcana don't change because you're still going to pick shaping 1, touch 1, spell power 3 (or spell power 2+sla wish) no matter what.

There, we've fixed it.

>>98562064
I dunno, having to eat school focus twice (less skill focus, but still) is pretty iffy.

>>98564100
1 feat for those isn't a bad trade.

My handwriting is dogshit and I recently grabbed a digital writing pad to work on d&d stuff on my PC and my handwriting is even worse now. Incredible

>>98558588
>TQ
A few months ago, actually!
I was still on the hunt to prove I am the King of All Werewolves, and dove in to water to combat an adult black dragon in it's lair.
I dealt it several mighty blows, and it returned them in kind. I retreated with good prudence, and when it crested, my party fell upon it with great wrath.

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How does using a Point Buy system work / how do you think it works with nontraditional Player races? I would just do the buy and then add any racial adjustment. I could see people -2 any stats you didn't improve though. Like a Pegasus with a 25-Point Buy;
Standard Pegasus: Str 18, Dex 15, Con 16, Int 10, Wis 13, Cha 13
Starting: Str 8, Dex 8, Con 8, Int 8, Wis 8, Cha 8
Point Buy: Str 8 (-2), Dex 8 (-2), Con 8 (-2), Int 18 (+10), Wis 11 (+3), Cha 14 (+6)

Theoretical 1 / Add Point Buy to Standard:
Str 18, Dex 15, Con 16, Int 20, Wis 16, Cha 19

Theoretical 2 / -10 then +Point Buy:
Str 16, Dex 13, Con 14, Int 18, Wis 11, Cha 14

>>98560689
I feel like archmage is a class characters take for personal fulfillment and bragging rights instead of actual power. Think how snooty Mialee is in all her quotes throughout the splatbooks. She'd definitely bean archmage and brag about it while running out of spell slots and not preparing any of the buff spells Regdar asked for.

>>98560689
The ability to manipulate Arcane Fire < Silver Fire < Spellfire in the lore is actually extremely prestigious, and can lead to other abilities or forms of magical mastery. Mystra in particular seems to favor Archmages for this reason. IIRC, Silver Fire and Spellfire can restore Dead Magic zones, and maybe with enough study Arcane Fire could too.

>>98562170
>spell power 5
>Quick, archmage! Only your baleful polymorph can save the realms now!
>Sorry, I can't actually cast 5th level spells.

>>98547034
Since the archmage had me checking Larloch's int to determine spell slots (34), maybe he runs an evil wizard school. If he thinks you have talent you wake up in the dorms one day. Collegiate wizard feat, an otyughs hole equivalent experience and call the 2k gold the hole feat usually 'costs'/is equivalent to your tuition fee that he generously extends you credit for. If you die, your soul is enslaved to work it off. If you survive long enough to graduate you do so as a level 1 wizard with Collegiate Wizard, a lovely little certificate and a firm handshake. Just don't stiff him on the tuition. Larloch might well actually appear to drag you screaming to the tomb if he decides you're not making your student loan payments, which would be a hell of a night at the in a country road inn.

He probably sends bragging letters to Blackstaff academy about what his students are getting up to and how much better his foundlings are than theirs. The Red Wizards probably dream of the evil atmosphere of Warlock's Tomb School of The Art, and its graduates are probably geased to be as homicidal about being called warlocks ad Larloch is.

>>98566822
>Collegiate wizard
Holy shit, how am I only learning about this now

>>98566885
Given some of the posts lately, I think someone is dialling up to play a game using the easy bake wizard guide on giantitp which gives like 6 or 7 free spells at level up and means you don't need a spell book. Check it out, it's pretty good. And it's even more absurd if you take extra feats or affiliations.

>>98565253
I don't know why you would do this desu, seems destined to be extremely junky at the very best

Are Illumians human enough to qualify for Red Wizards or are they filthy subhumans deserving only of slave collars?

Are there tables that show the optimal power attack usage against various armor classes?

>>98570541
Having the [Human] subtype, Illumians are legally human, and meet prerequisites (for feats) and entry requirements (for prestige classes) of "human," as well as being subject to targeted effects like Favored Enemy: Humanoid (human).

>>98570853
Excellent. It's mainly for a backstory thing. Just glad to know I won't have to do too much convincing.

>>98569755
Because it could be _fun_. My working model is theory 2. -10, start from 8, do the Point Buy, and then add the Point Buy to the minus'd Ability Score.

>>98570808
That is a simple head math.
So long as you can hit on a 10+, you are good.
Anything lower than that is beating the odds.

>>98570541
I know like half of them have red hair, Anon, but they are Human.

>>98558588
>TQ
Literally never as a player and never as a GM. By the time any of my players in any of my campaigns were anywhere near large bodies of water they had abilities that made it irrelevant.

>>98571850
Surely pumping damage until every attack is a coin flip is not optimal dps/round mathematically

I've been thinking about running some 3.5 online, and recruiting for players over on startplaying with a free game. However, I'd probably limit the books and therefore build options for players to the PHB.

Is there anything I should know about recruiting via a free free game on start playing or about limiting player options to the PHB that I should know beforehand?

So I'm gonna be starting a campaign soon with a unique premise and I wanted to get your opinions.

The basic situation is that there are going to be Champions of each of the skills, and the idea behind Champions is that for each of the type of skills that exist there is one person who is SO proficient at that skill that nobody in the world is capable of surpassing them. They're always considered max skill ranks regardless of their HD, they get a crazy high flat bonus (as well as getting Skill Focus as a bonus feat just for the flavor) to that skill, can Take 10 or 20 at will, and if they ever are in a situation where they're asked to make an opposed check, they win, period.

This will be a PF1e game, but I'm planning on taking inspiration from a lot of the Epic Skill uses that 3.5 had (as well as native high level PF abilities like Mythic material), stuff like how you could Balance on a cloud with a high enough check.

The main caveat to this will be that the extraordinary skill-based talents the Champions have is the ONLY above average thing about them, outside of that they have completely normal class and skill progression. You could have a Champion of UMD that's a level 2 Fighter who can activate any magical item in existence, but otherwise is still stymied by a particularly sturdy mundane lock.

In addition, a wrinkle about the existence of Champions (and why the players should care) is that when Champions exist, they sort of naturally pull the ability for everyone else within a large radius to perform that skill and makes them worse. Things like people trying to successfully Intimidate others just straight up has a chance to fail if the Intimidate Champion draws too much power to fuel his abilities.

As for the players themselves, I'm thinking of offering to them the option of playing as the actual Heralds of the gods, who for some reason are having their ability to influence the Champions mysteriously blocked.

>>98573704
Sounds neat but unfortunately Skills are at their least interesting mechanically when players try to force everything through that niche, and rather than using the skill creatively you end up in situations like "how many ranks in Use Rope do I need to grab the threads of fate and change what just happened". Neat and evocative the first time, rapidly devolving into cheese strats afterwards.

>>98574036
That's why the main focus of the game will be that the people doing all of the crazy, mind bending skill applications will be the bosses, not the players. That way each one can be unique and a bit of a puzzle fight, or in some cases with skills that are less directly combat focused, just getting to the Champion in and of itself is the challenge (the Survival Champion comes to mind), and then getting to thrash them afterwards is the reward.

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So a Chronotyryn can cast 4 spells in a round because they can make two rounds worth of actions in a single round. That's probably the best version of that sort of thing, right? Even a Spell Weaver isn't doing that.

>>98574676
A Beholder Mage can cast an extra nine spells per turn as a free action, but that's not very flexible. If you're just asking for Shapechange shenanigans, that's indeed one of the most powerful forms available.

>>98573583
phb only is the most busted way to play 3.5.
There arent any builds available really. Especially after a certain level. And it doesnt even feature stuff for the higher levels. So for the love of god at least include phb2.
The only reason i can see to do it is to play a game without prestige classes, dips and all those shenanigans, but you can explicitly ban that from others and include more books.
What i am saying is that including a book doesnt mean you must accept anything in it. It's your game

I unashamedly say I prefer spontaneous casting over prepared casting. I'd rather have slightly fewer spell slots and spells known than mess around with preparing spells.

>>98575479
I ashamedly say one time I was running a long and high level 3.5 campaign and we did a short interlude halfway to play 5e, and after we were back to 3.5 the shock from the difference in convenience was so powerful we made a houserule to make it work like in 5e.

>>98575479
i find this to be the best solution for curbing the power of full casters and to make the spell selection in each situation easier for the players as well

>>98575583
What do you do about sorcerers in your game? You just took away their only benefit compared to wizards and made wizards the only good choice.

>>98575591
Erudite cerebromancer, maybe?

>>98575591
Erudite cerebromancer, maybe? They're basically wizards if I remember right.

>>98575615
I didn't do anything really, and there was a warmage and a bard in that campaign but they didn't complain because the houserule meant they didn't have to wait as long for the druid to optimize the slots for the day. The only drawback for regular casters was that the alternative method had small numbers, but I don't remember what it was exactly, might have been 8 or 10 + spellcasting modifier. The exact houserule was at the beginning of the day they could select the number of prepared spells, or alternatively prepare all of them slot-by-slot. I realize it made the class even stronger but it was sacrifice I was willing to make for the sheet convenience of everyone.

>>98575615
Not everyone who plays 3.5 is some autist on /tg/ that has been kicked out of every group.

>>98576878
You don't have to be That Guy to ask that question. PF's vastly stronger Sorcerer got the same questions when Arcanist came out, for the same reason.

>>98575648
Warmages work off of a better casting mechanic than even Wizards have and Bards have half their power in their songs, so it's not quite the same. I'd probably bump spontaneous spell level progression back on par with prepared, give them 1 extra spell known/level, and give Sorcs bonus feats every 5, if I was worried.

>>98577674
>I'd probably bump spontaneous spell level progression back on par with prepared
Frankly, I'd suggest doing that regardless. There isn't any legitimate reason to retard them.

>>98577745
The inflexibility of prepared casting means you can end up in situations where you don't use all your spell slots because they aren't germane. If spontaneous casting matches that total volume it further undermines the concept of attrition. I get that it's a joke trying to balance casters by having enough encounters that the reliability of martials evens things out, but it's better than nothing.

>>98577766
They have a built in solution to that problem in preparing empty slots mid-day to better tailor them to what you're dealing with.

>>98577390
I've never played PF. What's the difference?

>>98578617
Sorcerers got bloodlines which gave them very large benefits to stay in class. An extra class skill, 1 extra spell known per spell level that's assigned by bloodline, 3 bonus feats at 7, 13, and 19 from bloodline list, a bloodline arcana which is a passive ability at level 1, and bloodline powers at 1, 3, 9, 15, and 20. It would normally be annoying bloat, but the 3.5 Sorcerer has no class features beyond their familiar.

>>98573583
Peak 3.5e is:
PHB I & II plus Complete Adventurer
Druid is allowed only with alternate wild shape from PHB II
Scout gets skirmish progression like a rogue's sneak attack (AC bonuses stay the same)
Ban wizards and clerics.

>>98576878
lol
lmao, even
Nigger rubbed his three brain cells together to act like using a watered-down trash version is superior

P.S. just use spell points retard

>>98579950
This guy got filtered by the spellcasting captcha

>>98579950
The whole point of playing 3.x over 5e is that there are insane amounts of options and that you are enough of an adult to have rule 0 conversations about power level and campaign intention. I can't imagine wanting to play 3.x without the splat library

>>98573583
>>98579950
>>98581480
I was brainstorming about running 3.5 again for some random dudes on the internet, but I didn't want to bother manually checking characters for super broken bullshit, so I was considering something along the lines of PHB + up to 1 or 2 or 3 books of players' choice, Spell Compendium and Magic Item Compendium banned. Maybe allow ToB for free if you create the character with ToB classes.

>>98582053
I'll be your random dude on the internet broski. I'm the powergamer so I'll prolly be the worst offender, but I self-limit and I can help you check the others.

>>98582053
just say no to dips or bulshit races, templates etc
our casual game was always up to 2 base classes and 1 prestige class so people would just make a semi decent character expecting to face some monster manual stuff and the occasional juiced up important encounter and it worked mostly fine without the dm giving much of a fuck honestly

>>98583416
>just say no to dips or bulshit races, templates etc
But I do like dips, bullshit races and templates (okay maybe I'm not a fan of templates for PCs but that's about it). Even as DM I vicariously enjoy players' powergaming, just that there's a point at which it gets difficult to mitigate.
PHB+1 book would shoot down a lot of broken combinations, for example you could no longer do Divine Metamagic + Persist Spell because one is Complete Divine, the other Complete Arcane.
>>98582171
At the moment I'm way too busy to run a live game anyway. I was entertaining the idea of some discord-based play-by-post but I've never ever ever ever once in my life managed to have a full succesful scenario in a pbp despite trying many times.

>>98583633
then i guess i misunderstood you. your best choice would be to take the 5-10 feats or prestige classes that you find problematic and just say these are no go but the rest of the completes are in for example. Dont ban an entire book because you wanna ban one feat

>>98583633
>Even as DM I vicariously enjoy players' powergaming, just that there's a point at which it gets difficult to mitigate.
You sound like our DM. Only he allows everything and trusts us to not go overboard, which we don't for the most part.

> I was entertaining the idea of some discord-based play-by-post but I've never ever ever ever once in my life managed to have a full succesful scenario in a pbp despite trying many times.
Play by post is underrated as hell.

>>98583685
Overrated*
It sucks shit

>>98583685
>Only he allows everything and trusts us to not go overboard, which we don't for the most part.
That's more or less how I run with my permanent home group, back when I was running 3.5 I would immediately ban the few most egregious offenders (for example Shivering Touch) and then it was just a gentlemanly contract to not break the game too much. In one case we didn't foresee a druid got so fucking overpowered that I allowed him to respec a few details to take things down a notch.
>>98583661
But I don't want to ban entire books, I want to force restrictions on players to see how they would work around them. And then I would have to also work around these restrictions, because for example with this rule I wouldn't ban Shivering Touch and if somebody does pick Frostburn for their splatbook of choice for chargen, I would just have to work around it, probably by giving every dragon an army of kobolds with wands of dispel magic or lesser restoration.

>>98581480
>The whole point of playing 3.x over 5e is that there are insane amounts of options and that you are enough of an adult to have rule 0 conversations about power level and campaign intention. I can't imagine wanting to play 3.x without the splat library
I meant to say, add in splats as you feel like, but I forgot.

Interesting low level magical items? The magic bedroll, for example, or that floating lantern that purges invisibility in its light.

I even saw a blatantly xianxia 'ring of holding' here once, though the weight was msybe 30 pounds. Funny stuff.

>>98584563
Shapesand and the collar of perpetual attendance are both really cool. Check Shax's Haversack on GITP for some neat ideas.

>>98584563
It's a bit outside your level range but I'm a big fan of the decanter of endless water.

The Magic Item Compendium also has a variety of neat stuff that's usually too niche to be worth the item slot but is at least cool.

>>98584563
Talisman of the Disk.

>>98579950
Unless you're doing cheese strats Cleric is merely very good. Still head and shoulders above most things because they're a full caster but the party having a healer isn't a bad thing.

Am I reading the spell resistance rules wrong? I think if I were to take a defiant 10 and ur priest 10, his innate SR would be something his own spells ignore since that's mentioned in the SR rules. Or does the ability supercede those?

>>98589250
If something conflicts with the base rules, it supersedes them. The downside of a Defiant's Spell Resistance, being unable to drop it for beneficial divine spells, is an intentional downside and not a misprint; it indeed applies to divine spells you'd cast on yourself. Defiant 10 and Ur-Priest 10 would give you undropable SR 25 against Divine spells, and droppable SR 20 against Divine spells (and outsider spell-like abilities). As the Defiant's ability description states, SR doesn't stack and you have to use the highest value, so you have to use the Defiant SR ability and not the Ur-Priest SR ability. You could stop at Defiant 9 so that this SR only applies to mind-affecting Divine spells, but I'd think that a Defiant 9's Divine Interference would apply to your own Ur-Priest spellcasting well.

>>98589665
Not too worried about interference because while it'd be tricky, getting your concentration high enough to hit 34 on a 1 isn't as iffy as other ideas.

Mostly tooling around trying to figure out a full 10 levels of ur priest with something that isn't just cleric.

>>98584563
I really really love the healing belt. It's mandatory for every low level game.

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I wish this had been named like anything else. Fiery Fire Ball is retarded