>>OverviewWe are going to construct some mechs. This is a stand alone thread for mech construction challenges. Each scenario given will have 4 days to submit an entry. You may submit more than once (like we could tell anyhow) but each must be on its own post.The bids will then be compiled and voted on by Anons in the thread to determine who gets the contract. Voters should consider the mech's cost, effectiveness in the desired role, and the fluffiness of the sales pitch and description.>>RulesYear, tech base, and tech level to be used for the mech will be specified in the scenario, and should be followed.Positive quirks must equal or be exceeded by negative quirks, with no more than 6 quirks total.>>FormatingMech pitches should be formatted as follows:Chassis ModelRoleWeightQuirksBattle Value at a 4/5 pilotDry Cost in C-BillsSales pitch and In setting fluff.>> Voting categoriesWe will have a few. Often they will be1: Favorite design2: Most innovative design3: Best Narrative4: Meth babyWe may include a 5th “best fits the requirements” for some challenges.A top 5 of the most votes will also be listed>>Previous thread>>98450906>> Challenge 12 voting up in a bit
>>Challenge 12: post 3050 downgrade The year is 3132 and the dark age has begun. Outside of the great powers few people still have Battlemechs, but you have an old frame and “standard” tech. Stuff used a hundred years ago, before the tech resurgence and the coming of the clans. Stuff from the last real. “Dark Age” you could call it. And so that is what you are gonna build, one of the new designs, but downgraded.>>RequirementsPic a design built between 3050 and 3130. It can't be an older design that got an upgrade, but a design that was new post 3050. Then you are gonna stick to the ye old 3025 tech. Meklabs may call some stuff like ERs standard that we all know were not back in 3025. Do not listen to its lies.Year: 3132Tech Base: Innersphere Tech Level: standardPrice: Not a factor here (mostly)Role: AnySize: AnyEquipment: Gentlemen, We are going old school, 3025End date: Monday August 31st at 6
>>98585364 after I made the mech I realized that the Double Heatsinks were only standard in 3030 with the earliest prototypes being 3022. Since this is 3025 tech can I throw in a lore bit about raiding an abandoned FedSun facility and acquiring some first production run double heat sinks from there or do I need to redesign the damn mech?
>>98585364>Pic a design built between 3050 and 3130.This is probably giving me the most trouble since I don't have a good idea what chassis were designed in this era.
>>98585364Incarnate 1NC-4RBrawler70tModular Weapon (AC/10), Bad Reputation, Difficult to MaintainBV 1,3145,761,583 C-BillsWith advanced technology, and especially OmniMechs, becoming increasingly difficult to support as the Blackout continued, Sorenson Industrial quickly found themselves struggling to meet the expectations placed on them by the Rasalhague Dominion. An associate in the Watch provided the struggling manufacturer with unfinished blueprints to the Avatar, which were quickly revised with more accessible components and put into production. The design quickly earned the ire of its MechWarriors, who universally misidentified their issued 'Mech as a Mad Dog. Its hurriedly remodeled internals earned no more love from the technicians force to crawl within for repairs. Once this initial deception was accepted, the Incarnate would serve the Dominion capably, if humbly. The few who accepted its eccentricities found that the Autocannon mount retained some degree of its precursor's adaptability, with it commonly being replaced with a Large Laser to restore the Avatar's LRM 10 launchers, or an AC/20 by removing the missiles entirely.
>>98585364Are we talking a fresh production downgrade, or a refit kit? If the former, then Introductory would probably be a better tech level. If the latter, then that would imply that engines and structure would stay at higher levels with Introtech gear stuck on top.
>>98585517check MUL: http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Filter?Name=&HasBV=false&MinTons=20&MaxTons=100&MinBV=&MaxBV=&MinIntro=3050&MaxIntro=3130&MinCost=&MaxCost=&HasBFAbility=&MinPV=&MaxPV=&Technologies=1&Types=18&BookAuto=&FactionAuto=
>>98585480Not sure about the new timeline changes, But I would rule Double heat sinks out . The challenge is to downgrade a post 3050 design to have no new tech. 3025 tech only
>>98585554The pitch was a pure downgrade. Take a newer design and rip out any tech not found before the Helm core. Pure 3025, not ER, not LBX or Ultra, no xl, no Endo of ff armor, no double heat sinks and so on.Feel free to use an ICE plot primitive engine if you like, but other than standard that is you only options. Just take a machine designed after 3050 and strip it down to something that fits in TRO 3025. Just pure ol school tech.
>>98585583Okay, booting it up in MML with a build date of 3025, the additions from Intro to Standard are TSM, Industrial/Primitive armor, a pile of IndustrialMech equipment, rifles, one-shot SRMs and the Blazer. Someone will probably get some use out of the chainsaw and TSM, but I suppose it's mostly academic outside of that.My other hangup was that once you're up/downgrading everything up to and including the structure, you're just building a new 'Mech from scratch to a different tech level with the amount of Ship of Theseus being applied. At that point, my gut reaction turns to "I go back to building canon Introtech designs, because that lets me skip the R&D phase". But I'll come up with something for the sake of the game.
>>98585557It doesn't really help since at least half of them are upgrades from evergreen chassis...>>98585652>At that point, my gut reaction turns to "I go back to building canon Introtech designs, because that lets me skip the R&D phase". But I'll come up with something for the sake of the game....And yeah, the Tech restrictions invalidate those newer designs built around things like Endo-steel or XL Engines...
>>98585364Legionnaire LGN-DSkirmisher50tDifficult to Maintain1117BV4,014,500 C-Bills"Finally got the damn thing working. Stupid recorder...to hell with any "Captains Log" type crap.So I just finished working on the mech and finally got it to run properly; an old Legionnaire I pulled out of a Fedrat depot that had been bombed to hell and back during the jihad. damn thing needed a new everything so I took whatever scrap I could and went to work.Got a standard GM AC10 in there with only two tons of ammo though I added three bog standard medium lasers to compensate for the low ammo. Most of the structure was trashed so I had to fabricate a new one out of whatever I could find, apparently it was a low-tech test run they did as when I opened it there wasn't any endosteel in the thing. Thankfully the Centurion frame has some interchangeable parts with the rest being easy to either make or modify existing parts for it. The wiring was a pain in the absolute bastard because I had to replace what was left which was little more than burnt insulation. Some spice addict probably got antsy and ripped the wires to sell... anyways, I am going to put it through combat trials soon as we're getting close to the pirate hideout, intel suggests they've mostly got vehicles and a couple lights with a single medium leading the pack. Hopefully this piece a shit keeps me alive. Not sure what to say to end this but... hell I'm just gonna go." -Log from mechwarrior Mikkel "Snickers" Nohlastname
I did a Gunslinger that I'll probably post, but it's arguably too easy to downgrade.
>>98585364Rakshasa MDG-0ABrawler75 TonsEasy to Maintain, Weak Head Armor (1)1437 BV6,646,500 C-BillsI'm not even going to try and pitch this, I hate it so much.
>>98585364Apollo APL-2DSniper55 tonsFast Reload, Rugged1224 BV4,351,573 C-BillsA combination of the modifications from the -1Rand -2S variants. It's just a Trebuchet with a deeper ammo pool.
>>98585872Fuck I legit had that idea myself.
>>98585364Falconer FLC-2RBrawler75 TonsBV 1,5916,198,500 C-billsQuirks: StableArmor 13.5 tonsWhen the HPG network stopped working overnight there was a mad scramble by various planetary militias to find whatever military equipment was available. With communication cut off nobody could rely on reinforcements or resupply from their respective factions thus low tech solutions were desired that could be quickly procured and be easily maintained. Therefore it was a godsend to many when mysterious traders started appearing offering to sell mechs by the company in exchange for raw materials or certain goods, strangers who often used various different aliases when trading with the only common theme is that they were occasionally known to speak Latin and Greek. While this did raise suspicions especially since the large stockpile of equipment they had for sale made it seem like they had been long prepared to profit from the situation the Inner Sphere suddenly found itself in nobody was in a position to reject them with the chaos that was going on.One of the products offered by these strangers is a downgraded Falconer using equipment that would have been common just a century prior. Much slower than the original but also significantly cheaper, the 2R Falconer as it is designated is still quite an effective mobile platform that is ideally suited for defending important infrastructure and facilities. The firepower has only seen the PPC downgraded to a regular model and the gauss replaced with an AC/10 which is not a significant loss in capabilities. The heat dissipation remain the same and surprisingly armor was upgraded due to the weight saved. This makes this mech a popular choice for defence units as the sight of so many seemingly capable mechs suddenly leaping over walls can be more than enough to deter would be raiders. Curiously neither TharHes nor General Motors confirm they produce such a variant yet each new mech arrives as if it was fresh from a factory.
>>98585364Buccaneer BCN-2RJuggernaut55 TonsBV 1,4025,495,628 C-billsQuirks: Improved Targeting (Short), Bad Reputation (Inner Sphere)Armor 11.5 tonsAnother product from the mysterious strangers with many mechs to sell. The downgraded Buccaneer is again slower than the original but its capabilities are not that far off. Slightly heavier armor and the use of a standard engine means it can survive blows its advanced counterpart can not. Using triple-strength-myomer, a technology that has been well understood for over a century, means that this variant is capable of sudden bursts of speed once it engages combat that is more than enough to surprise unsuspecting opponents especially when the first indication of this happening is a hatchet being swung hard towards their cockpit.What has soured the reputation of this particular design is due to its recent appearance amongst various marauding groups making it clear that the traders are willing to do business with everyone. The sight of so many capable mechs cleaving their way through militia forces has made various planetary governments seek even more military hardware with some feeling the urge to purchase anything that is made available as long as it means that it remains out of the hands of their potential enemies. As of yet no mech manufacturer has taken official responsibility for producing the downgraded variant despite each one being delivered to a very high quality standard.
>>98585674 Shields are newer tech, ost 3060. I am on the fence with this as it isn't 3025 tech but it's also not actually very tech complicated.>>98588286TSM is also a new tech, so not 3025 tech. It didn't come into common use until 3055
>>98585364Yurei S-YR-2LAMSkirmisher40 tonsBV 13773,110,077 C-billsQuirks: Non Standard PartsArmor: 8 tonsWhen a militia procurement officer was browsing through a catalogue given by the mysterious trader group he thought he had he had found a typo. In a section under aerospace assets he saw a brief sentence randomly scribbled titled "LAM Yurei, sell yes or no?" Intrigued and assuming that they were referencing the laser anti-missile system for possible sale to a person named Yurei, he decided to contact the traders asking for a Yurei and if he had LAMs for sale only to get a very abrupt response that LAMs were extinct and nobody had them for sale. Puzzled by the response he still decided to add in his order for mechs a request for four Yurei LAMs if available. To his surprise he received acknowledgement that they would be dispatched in a separate shipment as it would be considered a special order using a hidden courier, one that would not have a typical escort. Extremely curious now to see what he had bought it was unfortunate that the shipment was intercepted by a radical group called the Sons of Herb who completely destroyed the undefended dropship as it made planetfall. The only remains of the shipment left the militia even more puzzled as they retrieved what appeared to be mech parts with wings attached. After this incident no more of these special LAMs were ordered.
>>98588542>TSM is also a new tech, so not 3025 tech. It didn't come into common use until 3055Is that Interstellar Ops? Cause I think that's another example of where CGL got things actually wrong. Its definitely around in the 3020's as its being prototyped and fully functional examples appear in 3039 but then that would class as experimental tech. Its in full scale production by 3050 because there are variants considered standard tech with it installed pre 3055, Centurion and Scarabus come to mind.
>>98588542>>98588621Original grade TSM with the exploding knees problem was first used in 3028 after the Capellans got honeypotted by NAIS, and Anti-TSM missiles have an intro date of 3027. What we don't have is an exact date of when the FedSuns finished and shelved first-gen TSM because of the chemical weapons weakness before pulling it back out to do the funny.
>>98588625Well its definitely before 3055 otherwise they've just gone and broke a bunch of mechs. Its functional in 3039 as per the FedCom units that are using it in combat and it actually works thanks to Sword and Dragon Sourcebook which incidentally gives the production date as 3050.I think at this stage anons need to rewrite Interstellar Ops Alt Eras using the sourcebooks for reference cause fuck are some of these dates confusing and not making a lot of sense.
>>98588621>>98588625Yep interstellar OPs. Also the fact we know IRL it wasn't around in 3025. It's post invasion tech. In setting it didn't reach common use until 3055. Now they have retconned rodo types over the years, but it still didn't reach production use until 3055.
>>98588657>but it still didn't reach production use until 3055.CN9-D3 and SCB-9T say hi.
>>98588657TechManual specifically notes the raid on Sian, and the oldest mention of the event I can find dates back to Fourth Succession War Military Atlas Vol. 2, published in 1989. If you wanted "common use", then I reiterate that you should have specified Introtech.
>>98588737>>I reiterate that you should have specified Introtech. I did, twice"Then you are gonna stick to the ye old 3025 tech. Meklabs may call some stuff like ERs standard that we all know were not back in 3025. Do not listen to its lies."And"Equipment: Gentlemen, We are going old school, 3025"Maybe this is me being old, but 3925 tech to me means pure up old school 3025 tech. Ya know, the tech before the clans and the retcons>>98588680Both of those are retcons.
>>98588895And that's why TSM in particular is such a fucking bugbear: because it IS old. Regardless of official introductory date, it's about the only "old" thing added by moving from Intro to Standard, and that's why MML provides it as an option for building at Standard in 3025 in lieu of an explicit date of prototyping.
>>98588928I get they retconned it, but it's not 3025 tech, it wasn't created until well after the clan invasion stuff.
>>98588946It predates the introduction of the Clans by 5 months. 4SW Military Atlas was September '89, Lethal Heritage was February '90. If you want to go the "it didn't have rules in 1989" route, then I say again, INTROTECH.
>>98589022I thought I was pretty clear on 3025. Clearly there has been some kind of shift as some folks didn't understand what 3025 meant.So fine, Introtech.
>>98585364Ti Ts'ang TSG-1L60 TonsCombat Computer, Improved Life Support, ObsoleteBV 1,3895,385,280 C-BillsMelee mechs rarely accrue long service records. They do however find themselves in place of honor at almost any scrapyard. The Ti Ts'ang is no different from the Hatchetman, the Scarabus or the Berzerker in this regard, and when word came down from the Celestial Throne, Capellan technicians dutifully hauled the old battleaxes from their eternal rest and began ripping out everything that could no longer be repaired or bought. The 1L is therefore a downgrade of the well regarded 9H, identical in its hardpoint layout save for the loss of one jump jet and altered thruster disposition. Some in the refit team wished to shrink its engine all the way to a 240-class, thus saving enough tonnage to properly cool the Mech even with single heat sinks. Capellan leadership disagreed, pointing to the well known faults of the original Hatchetman at this same speed. No, the Mech would bear the heavy burden of a 300 class standard engine in order to bring its hatchet and small lasers to bear, one way or the other. No TSM, no XL tech to speed it up, all the technicians could do was use their still-modern programming knowledge to make the Ti Ts'ang's single sinks as efficient as they could be, and insulate the cockpit with small amounts of modern materials. Plus a modern cooling jacket. Amusingly, its predecessor reached the same overheat mark on a jumping alpha as this lesser variant (13 heat).The gamble paid off. 150 meters of jump and 86 kph of top speed was enough to make the 1L a fast moving, durable brick. Its hatchet was no less heavy and sharp and the 1L carried only half a ton less armor. The lasers were weaker, the armor cruder and the pilot toastier, but any Mechwarrior in 3025 would have been terrified to see this 60 tonner bearing down on them for the Chancellor.House Liao buried the hatchet only one way to solve ancient grudges: Into your cockpit.
>>98589022NTA but TSM really isn't tech 1.
>>98589045Don't look at me, I called way back up >>98585652 that someone was going to shove TSM on a design because you left the door open for what as at the time the one piece of absolute bleeding-edge tech that is now much more widespread as of 3132.
>>98589116I stated 3025, I stated it twice. That is Introtech. Feel free to disagree but TSM isn't 3025 tech.
>>98589185Well, as you said, we are clearly on a terminology discrepancy. Your stated intent of "fits in TRO:3025" is an Introductory-level exercise. Standard is a broader category that only serves to add options outside of that intent. On the software side, setting MML to 3025/Standard will also automatically filter every named example of "do not" you provided due to its extinction, but not TSM, which likely further fed anon's belief that it was a valid choice. Thematically, I would argue that the post-Helm dating almost begs for the use of TSM, in the same way that RetroTech designs use modern weapons on a primitive chassis to separate them from true Primitives, so I'm not surprised that someone did it.That's not to keep beating you over the head, that's just to try and parse out how we got here. You made the ruling I've been jockeying for since the start, so I suppose I should be happy.
>>98588895>Both of those are retcons.No they are not. Both are mentioned as far back as the original TRO 3050 and TRO 3055 respectfully. >>98589116The whole tech situation is dumb anyway because weapons like blazers, rifles and artillery cannons are considered experimental for a long ass time despite them being noted as nothing fancy tech wise. Then of course megameklab goes full special needs mode because it will say such equipment will be available despite setting it to standard so you have to pay close attention to the summary tab.Also on a side note megamek has TSM available as far back as 3023. I can find zero references to that. Tech Manual also says its in production in 3050 so I am more inclined to go with that over Interstellar Ops.
>>98589335>The whole tech situation is dumb anyway because weapons like blazers, rifles and artillery cannons are considered experimental for a long ass time despite them being noted as nothing fancy tech wise. Then of course megameklab goes full special needs mode because it will say such equipment will be available despite setting it to standard so you have to pay close attention to the summary tab.There's a nasty terminology overlap between "Tech Level as Rules" and "Tech Level as production volume". The standard seems to be that an item's least exclusive production volume is equal to its rules level regardless of era, and MML only filters by rules level and extinction/not-invented-yet.>Also on a side note megamek has TSM available as far back as 3023. I can find zero references to that. Tech Manual also says its in production in 3050 so I am more inclined to go with that over Interstellar Ops.That's the lore circle we were running around in a minute ago. The Davions had a shitty version of TSM in 3028, because they were able to give it away to the Capellans. They had weapons for use against that shitty TSM in 3027. The big question mark is how far back they had the shitty TSM sitting in a NAIS lab where it could theoretically be stuck into a 'Mech, but they didn't want to.
>>98589317I didn't think to say introtech because I thought it was clear and knew MML would pull some BS. The lore has moved around a lot in the last 30 or so years. Gaps got filled, things got moved about and such.>>98589335>>Both are mentioned as far back as the original TRO 3050 and TRO 3055 respectfully.While 3055 mentions it, 3050 does not. At least not by name. It was just an "improved" moymer. Which we can tell from the context and later info was TSM, but it doesn't call it that at the time. Which makes sense as writers had not likely made it yet.
jesus christ, ask any 10 battletech players whether or not tsm is or is not introtech and 9 out of 10 of them will say it isntthis debate is just wasting posts and causing bad feels at this point
>>98589354It doesn't help that the rules say prototype TSM doesn't buff speed yet the record sheets for units supposedly equipped with it says it does.>>98589402I am going to go out and just blame Stackpole for all this. Would not surprise me if it was one of his novels where TSM actually started.>>98589428The questions are more about when does it become in production standard tech rather than it being introtech because there are conflicting sources.
>>98589494>>just blame Stackpole for all this.In battletech those are good odds
>>98589402Yeah, between Primitives, MilitiaMechs, field guns, the occasional Gauss Rifle lying around, and others, "3025" and "Introtech" aren't quite as synonymous as they used to be. Back when MekHQ AtB was a thing, playing the era at Intro or Experimental levels were very different things.
So, who's got designs on their minds?
