>Realistically, which faction has the best benefits?
For the average person? Definitely the Technocracy.

>>98591998
>Realistically, which faction has the best benefits?
Ecstetics.
Even Technocracy will not offer you free drugs and tantric blowjobs.

>>98591998
The Syndicate
Unless you want immortality or higher meaning or some gay shit like that, then it's the Cult of Isis

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>>98591998
Unfortunately, the Technocracy. Even Traditions agree that they bring the benefits.

>>98591998
Of the vampire clans, the Ventrue definitely give the best offer provided you meet their high standards and make it through the training process.

But in exchange you get access to centuries if not millennia of connections and business opportunities. A clan that actually aids each other (without any blood bonds required tremmies), and possibly most unexpectedly, where the age/generation tension is minimal. Now it's not perfect, no system is, but the Ventrue are the only clan I can think of where an Elder genuinely listening to a Neonate and heeding their advice about modern developments isn't a rare occurrence.

If you can't hack it as a Ventrue though, the Nosferatu have similar benefits, but then you're fugly forever.

Is a I Am Legend scenario (zombie-like vamps destroying civilization) possible in the WOD?

>>98592272
Canonically impossible. Theoretically impossible to survive compared to the book:
-Garlic and mirrors have no effect on the cainite (well, garlic most of the time), so Robert would have even more vamps attackin his house. Crosses have an actual effect but you need to have true faith for it to work. Cainites don't really sleep by the day, and some are outright immune to daylight to a point, but I don't know if this carries over to wighthood. Stakes are useless unless it's for torpor, open holes are just that unless you go for the head or blow them up. Conversely being shot would actually be lethal, but it'd require a lot of bullets.

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>>98591998
>TQ
Come on, we all know.

>>98592039
Unfortunately, Ecstatic paradox backlashes tend to take the form of STDs that're incurable with life magic.

>>98591998
>Realistically, which faction has the best benefits?
VTM: Ventrue. If you are chosen by Ventrue to be embraced you will get actual training from feeding to using your disciplines to healing to politics. You will have connection, wealth and the emergency the Ethic of Succor button to save your ass.
Mage: The Technocracy: Do I need to elaborate? They have the best benefits for Mages and Sorcerers.
Werewolf: Glass Walkers. They are the only ones that can actually sustain city living beyond bare basics and you will have a support network that ranges from Mafia to coperations.

Lostling. Mainly because you’re not expected to do much beyond survive

>>98592610
>and Sorcerers.
It's incredibly painful that technocrats are the faction that recognizes extraordinary citizens as useful and powerful in a way independant of awakened mages, while the traditions are dumbfucks that keep awakening their master sorcerers into arete 1 scrub mages.

>>98592653
>Think about it logically, you are training a master of sorcery and mystic might for almost his entire life so he can become one of the most powerful linear mages in the world all to have him spend 5 years making a concoction or cast a spell that will shatter his very views on reality and reduce his capability of a mere graduate of hermetic study. All of his paradox-free effects that you trained him in are gone, all of his miracles untouched by consensus now impossible to replicate. Every word of power and sigil of a Demon King he spent years memorising to perfection now resolved through the Awakened Avatar whilst he has to spend the next 400 years of his life (Now affected by paradox backlashes) figuring out who he truly is and his place in the universe chasing a secondfold awakening that may never come! The myriad possibilities of the Umbra and longevity may be worthless to such a man! All you have given the world is a more adept mystical Avatar that will eventually be recycled and reborn as a mortal. It is the ultimate and final Paradox Backlash!

>>98592653
>the traditions are dumbfucks that keep awakening their master sorcerers into arete 1 scrub mages
Getting into mage: one wonders how the traditions are losing despite being so powerful.
Understand mage: one wonders how the fuck the traditions lasted this long with leaders that retarded.

I'm going to repost this because I'm hoping someone will have the image I'm looking for.

I decided that I'm going to try and run a game for a couple of friends online, and I was trying to find the general scale of power that the beings of WoD have compared to each other but I seem to have lost the image that I once found online. Does anyone have an image showing the general scale of power? I remember the one I saw before had like Caine at the far right of it along with things like angels and shit.

>>98592649
Like, think about it
I think to myself about expectations/rules and what you’re actually given in both the short term and long term with each splat, and Lost seems remarkably nice by comparison to everything else in both lines.
>You are not threatened by an inevitable existential issue and it is in fact fully manageable. Oblivion, Bedlam, Banality, The Beast, and so on.
>Sure, the Gentry is a thing, and they are utterly horrifying, but they’re not GOING to get you at all if you play your cards right
>You are fully capable of living a relatively ordinary life and in fact are encouraged to in order to maintain Clarity
>You can generally be accepted by a Freehold off the bat because they’ve been you
Only real tradeoffs are that the Gentry will hunt your ass down and you underwent some horrific shit already. But now you’re out and you can actually find a happy ending after all you’ve been through.
Maybe that’s just me

>>98592730
I know the one you're talking about, and it's useless. It has COFD splats mixed in for no reason and uses a meme understanding of powerscaling between splats you find from a 1d4chan only.

>>98592653
>while the traditions are dumbfucks that keep awakening their master sorcerers into arete 1 scrub mages.
please don't put the rest of the traditions in one pot with the order of hermes. Yes all traditiions are stupids but in different ways and sorcerer abuse is specifically a order of hermes thing

celestial chorus uses sorcerers as item and potion makers for their awakened monster hunters so the gear won't be subject to paradox and the alexandrian society is trying to emulate the technocracy but without seperation between faith and science (they been written back when the union was 100% atheist)
verbana don't care for the difference between the two kinds of magic
etherites just ignore sorcerers because they aren't of interest to them
euthanatoi have some sorcerer/necromancy families they been working together with for centuries if not longer and recruit the awakened members from

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>>98592730
Like the other guy said this is mainly shitposting thing and not trustworthy

are non mockery wereapes a thing?

>>98592795
there was one throw away line that they might maybe possibly be a thing in india, but then we went to india and they weren't there and none of the other indian faction ever mention them even the local fera

so probably not

>>98592783
Ngl CTL 1e Changelings generally feel like they’re more useful in comparison to 2e.
Like 2e CTL Lostlings are stronger but they don’t have as much utility. Which is why I prefer 1e rules

>>98592736
Descent demons are similar, but even better. They're both hunted by godlike beings, but demons have better tools to hide and build new lives. Their general power level is also higher.

>>98592828
I personally disagree because the God Machine is much worse and much more hard to deal with.
You can bargain with a True Fae on a good day, but an Angel is impossible to reason with

>>98592653
I get the feeling sorcerers ended up way stronger than the writers intended if "True Magick" is supposed to be better and you can't even use sorcery after awakening. That or they kind of ironically hate mages

>>98592869
That may be true for revised, but mage20 did everything in its power to nerf sorcerers and make them as useless as possible(removed mana, removed 6th dot path abilities, nerfed aspects, etc)
In the same book they buff the fuck out of psychics(changed from dicepool of various attribute + ability to permanent willpower, made former 5th dot powers into 4th dot and added even stronger 5th dot powers to replace them, etc)
The sorcerer20 book reads like the head writer had a psychic OC-donut character that got it's ass kicked by a sorcerer and he'd vowed revenge ever since.

>>98592869
it's more that true magic ended up weaker than expected because the writers spend the entire gameline nerfing it because they didn't expect their players to be that creative

like every mage st book has a section akin to the how do you do that book and everytime it contradicts the logic of how spheres are meant to work put worth by the corebooks and not all of these players read the st books (esp because some of them tell players to not read them) and then you get confusion as to why all other splats need a second sphere to fully affect with your full dicepool and some of these secondary spheres being really stupid (why do mummy need prime and spirit?) or print rotes that need a absurd amount of spheres to create effects that should be easier to create (prime tax and all that) or just flat out say that stuff is super dangerous, always vulguar and/or borderline impossible just because they don't want you to do it

if you compare the limits a mage has in 1e to all the limites that exists for mages at the end of revised (where mages also got nerfed even more to shoehorn the end of the world ToJ theme of revised into a game not made for it) you wonder if the writers even like sphere magic

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>>98592783
This feels closer but I'm sure someone will come out from the woodwork with UM ACTUALLY

Why are there no whale totems for garou? Baleen whales I get, but why nor orcas or sperm whales?

>>98592869
Ehhh, not really. Sorcerers were less popular than Kinfolk who are already way less popular than Ghouls. People were more willing to play Bygones or Constructs or Familiars than Sorcerers.
>>98592919
...brother that list is offensive to me. Not just because you put Sorcerer with Dot 6 that high on that list but because you put a Child and a Wraith in the same position.

>>98592972
6 Dot sorcerers can bind Gaia, that's why
And everything shits on Wraith, a bunch of kids going ghost hunting is like...a regular thing that happens all the time.

>>98592988
>6 Dot sorcerers can bind Gaia, that's why
I can't argue with this, and it makes me angry. Whitewolf can't balance things for shit.

>>98592919
yeah there is some stuff in there i don't agree with like nomenclature 5 being on the same level as naming 5

nomenclature is far more limited in what changes it can do even at 8 dots compared to naming 5. naming 5 can do pretty much every change as long as you roll well enough while nomenclature (and all heaku) is a bunch of spells that for the most part only do 1 thing

now nomenclature 5 can unname you which super kills you, but that has a lot of asterisk (true names change over time. it becomes more difficult and time consuming to figure out the true name the older the target is etc) which is why nobody ever managed to unname one of the bane mummies for example meanwhile naming 5 can just turn these guys into humans

on the otherside nomenclature is universal among the egyptian mummies while naming is really rare among the fae

also omega kek at putting a wraith at kid level and never leveling them up. i get that wraiths are understimated by a lot of people because necromancy was written before wraith, but a well build wraith can fuck with elders both garou and vampire and if they don't have necromancy there is shit all they can do about it regardless of how powerful they are guys can even use true magic if they possess a mage or wonder and we know the eidolons super wraiths like the lady of fate are above the highest mummies as anubis is equal/the same thing as the lady of fate and above osiris they are not playable but then again so are antes and earthbound

>>98592988
No they can't sorcererfag. No one actually plays Sorcerers like you imagine in your head. (If they did, there would be World of Darkness as we know off)
You always do this whenever there is a Sorcerer talk going on.
Also, you never played Wraith in your life and it shows.

>>98592988
It's not even binding(which is resistable) that's the worst part. If the sorcerer doesn't give a fuck about surviving the fight, they can summon an unbound member of the triat, because summoning has no way to resist.
As a funny prank, you can make a summoning permanent to make someone incapable of leaving a spot, even statless gods.

>>98592959
Why do you think orcas are so hostile to people? Gaia sees it's enough without giving them legs.

>>98592783
Putting the God Machine and Principle above Exarchs is definitely bait created against the Awakening powerwankers that probably still existed at the time.

>>98593027
>Also, you never played Wraith in your life and it shows.
Anon, you accidentally revealed that you're a butthurt wraithfag.
It's canon in wraith that a neonate necromancer can bind a deathlord, which is the reason stygia hunts necromancers so religiously.

>>98593027
Yeah I know no-one plays 6 dot sorcerers, no-one plays 10 Balance Mummies or 10 Dot Mages or Antediluvians in regular play, BUT the things they CAN do are stupid.

I should read Wraith again though, they're always the butt of the supernatural joke.

>>98593041
D&Dbrained faggot:
>"you can make a summoning permanent to make someone incapable of leaving a spot, even statless gods."
Storyteller: "No."

>>98592908
>The sorcerer20 book reads like the head writer had a psychic OC-donut character that got it's ass kicked by a sorcerer and he'd vowed revenge ever since.
the fun fact about this is that m20 sorcerer is like that because it was NOT written by goat boy

goat fucker has a habit of ignoring parts of mage not written by him unless they are part of the core and he in ascensions right hand did the 2e sorcerer rules but he did psionics as a afterthought with only 3 paths and the same dicepool as hedge magic

Travis Legge a guy who has only been working on m20 had the "honor" or m20 being his first book that wasn't supervised by the self proclaimed satyr

>>98593059
>No Argument
Wow anon, normally it takes long for people to start having a mental breakdown. Wraithfags are thin-skinned.

>>98593068
So if I want to play a Sorcerer/Shih demon hunter in V20, I don’t use Mage 20, I use the rulebook and Sorcerer Revised? Are there multiple editions of Revised or is it tied to specific edition?

>>98593068
>Travis Legge
Looks like he's trying to gain a spot in the unholy trinity of shit whitewolf writers. M6 is due this edition, let's see if he can pull it off.

>>98592736
>Sure, the Gentry is a thing, and they are utterly horrifying, but they’re not GOING to get you at all if you play your cards right
Going all "heh, as long as I'm cautious and logical and pragmatic and smart, which I always am at all times, the Gentry aren't going to be a problem" is a sure way to end up in the clutches of a True Fae. An overconfident fella being hoist with his own petard is exactly the sort of narrative that they excel at telling.

>>98593054
>I should read Wraith again though, they're always the butt of the supernatural joke.

that's because the wraiths most necromancers summon up are the guys who never even joined wraith society it's the equivalent of reducing the entire vampire splat to fledgeling caitiff. probably worse because arcanoi are not something that just come to wraiths like in-clan disciplines do to vampire

it's canon that none of the giovanni ever made it to striga and the endboss of the giovanni chronicle is cappadocious who got reduced to just a powerful wraith (he legit lost all his ante perks upon his death) which is still something that can terrorize all of london and need a entire coterie of 550 year old elders to hopefully deal with

>>98593085
At least bait used to be believable.
>>98593092
If you are going to play Sorcerer, Revised or M20 Sorcerer. If you are going to play Shih, Demon Hunter X is your only option.

>>98593092
Revised is the edition. There aren't even any Shih or Strike Force Zero supplements in 20th, so you should use revised anyway.

>>98593068
*the "honor" of m20 sorcerer being his first book that wasn't supervised by the self proclaimed satyr

>>98593059
Technically D&D also have a rule of "if DM says 'out of the sky big fat Tiamat's juicy ass fall on you - you die', then you die", but take a wild guess how many sessions such a DM will be able to keep his players for.

>>98593092
>>98593113
there is also no revised version of the shih

hunter X is a second ed book and there is some jank related to that there is a reason why they called 3rd edition "revised"

there are some rules in the generic time of judgement book, but those don't fully update the splat but instead give them the end of the world buff

>>98592869
>>98592908
>>98592918
Yeah, I've personally gotten the impression that Sorcerer was written by some butthurt freelancer who dislikes the dynamic magic system and wrote the entire thing as a "well if I wrote Mage, this is how I would do it" screed.

>>98593106
>he legit lost all his ante perks upon his death
Not technically All of them. Wraith retain attribute and ability scores from life, so cappodicious was throwing around a lot more power than should have been posdible.
At least two Antes(Tzimisce and Lasombra) have also canonically fied and kept their disciplines anyway, so Antes have a history of shitting on the rules most vampires are stuck with in that regard too. That's not even getting into the fact that wraiths can learn certain vampire disciplines(Specifically Fortitude, Celerity, Potence, and Obfuscate)

>>98593149
>That's not even getting into the fact that wraiths can learn certain vampire disciplines
Oh right, I forgot that was a thing.

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>>98593123
WOD also has that you know.

>>98593171
Wasn't that just an option through being Risen? Which version of Wraith and other books do I need to read?

>>98593149
wraiths are capped at 5 dots so if you have more you'd lose it same for the disciplines which also aren't fully the same thing and you only have those while you are a risen which cappi wasn't because his body crumbled to dust

>>98593184
You are correct, it's absolutely a risen thing. The risen book also makes it clear you don't lose your risen arcanoi as a wraith and vice versa. It says this because some arcanoi/disciplines don't work when on different sides of the shadowlands/skinlands divide.

>>98593186
You can make that house ruling as a storyteller, but that contradicts what giovanni chronicles says about elder vampires becoming wraiths.

>>98593143
hedge magic technically predate mage as a game, but hedge mages never been a big deal till the sorcerer revised book added some paths and gave them 6th dot powers

>>98593178
Passages like this are why some books had to include exerpts that No, the game is not the STs personal magical realm where the players are an audience that only exist to inflate the STs ego. It's a team game and the players will Leave if you're an asshole.
There was a massive issue of Ego STs in the whitewolf writing room, which was as big an issue for WoD as the optimization focused twinkery of D&D.

>>98593236
>till the sorcerer revised
WoD: Sorcerer was 1e anon. 6th dot paths were there from the start.

>>98592308
>>98592045
The Syndicate is the most individualistic dog-eat-dog convention of the lot. The only perks and benefits that a Syndicate agent gets are the ones that they can purchase with currency and influence.

A Black Suit is much more likely to be given a substantial package of benefits by the New World Order, in exchange for unquestioning loyalty and zero deviation from any orders that they're given. A Syndicate operative is just shown the ropes and then told to sort out their own portfolio.

>>98593041
And that, friends, is how the Wyrm was permanently bound to a truck stop bathroom in a gas station in Delaware.

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More spiders in spacebattles again. I'm not that satisfied with the chapter though, so I'll probably add and edit stuff later.
Also weekend was pretty hectic, and I played some Hunter: The Vigil with a bunch of irl friends today.
They killed Tzimisce fleshbeast dogs.

>>98593285
That'd probably make that the cleanest bathroom in delaware. All the rot and mesd would be decayed back to dirt instantly.

>>98593263
WoD: Sorcerer was also it's own splat instead of being artificial stitched onto Mage like some fucked up early progenitor experiment. Sorcerer and Mage should be made separate full splats again, it's healthier for both gamelines.

>>98593301
>cleanest bathroom in Delaware
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wr9CKbXaazw

>>98593256
The other side of the coin is that players aren't there to ruin a game because the books weren't written well. You are not summoning Gaia, you aren't getting infinite Blood by Dominating Pyretics 5 Fae and you are definitely not going to kill that Garou pack with 100+ housecats you used your Animalism to control.

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>>98593041
You telling me sorcerers can just do pic rel and cause the apocalypse by freeing the wyrm from the weaver just like that?

>>98593357
>and you are definitely not going to kill that Garou pack with 100+ housecats you used your Animalism to control.
...I don't see want's wrong with that last one?

>>98593360
Yes

>>98593357
>and you are definitely not going to kill that Garou pack with 100+ housecats you used your Animalism to control.
https://youtu.be/5IQVDplpnE4

>when you have a pitbull's teeth set with silver crowns and then bolt a VR visor to its head so it sees werewolves as innocent, helpless babies

>>98593360
summoning and binding 6 mentions that you can summon "gods, demons and angels". and it's a splat neutral book not a mage book so most take it as working on everything that is called a god just like how anti infernalism stuff works on most things called demons even if they are unrelated to each other

>>98593423
>just like how anti infernalism stuff works on most things called demons even if they are unrelated to each other
It really makes me wonder how the fuck the good side is always losing when the evil parts of the world of darkness setting have so many easily exploitable weaknesses.
Anti-demon magic works against any spiritual entity that's vaguely evil, whether it's fallen angels, wyrm spirits, spectres, high-umbra "demons", creatures from the thousand hells, etc.

>>98593290
I wonder what this looks like to the NWO agents tasked with monitoring that city. Is a bunch of reality deviants trying to gun each other down all over in the open worth an intervention? That certainly seems to be what's going on kek

These threads occasionally remind us that the most dangerous splat in classic world of darkness is normal ass humans that know too much.

>>98593479
Theres like one more large event that can happen in the city that has the Technocracy intervene directly

>>98593501
Don't forget the catgirls and foxgirls anon. They can learn any gift from any breed and can learn mortal sorcery without restrictions.

has anyone in this thread ever actually played Autism: the Masking? if so what was it like? considering maybe sort of perhaps running it

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>>98593622
oops forgot the image!

>>98593501
Yes, the Minor Splat Mortal (not a Enchanted Ghoul Kinfolk that got possessed by a Wraith) is very scary. What he can’t punch to death with Shih or gun down with futuristic magitech guns, or entrap with sorcery or counter with an elixir, he can just colateral by summoning an Incarna and saying “kill everyone”, including himself.

>>98593622
I ran a few sessions of it, and while it was a lot of fun it took a lot of adjusting to. Players kept wondering if they should swap to different disguises (I forget the name) and roleplay them as completely different people. It was a bit jumbled, I think DtD definitely had a few too many chefs in the kitchen but there's a whole lot to like about it. Embeds, Exploits and the Demon forms are excellent and the espionage angle is pretty unique for CofD.

>>98593266
The Syndicate will train you and set you up with everything you need to grow your influence. Those connections are worth more than money. Knowing the right people can get you far, just look at poltics. A skilled Syndicate agent can make Epstein look like an unpaid intern. Remember than you can trade spare assets for favours from other conventions and the Syndicate won't give a damn.

>>98593657
>(not a Enchanted Ghoul Kinfolk that got possessed by a Wraith)
The fact the world of darkness newfags can't figure out the difference between minor splats and half-splats annoys the fuck out of me.
Minor splats are independants splats that don't play a big role in wod. They're often numina and all stackable.
Half-splats are things that got some of the powers of a full splat without being one. Things like ghouls, revenants, dhampirs, kinfolk, possessed, etc. They're sometimes stackable(ghouls), but often NOT stackable(dhampir) because making one requires weird events.

>>98593290
Thank you very much.

>>98591998
Oy vey, my son is Fae. What can a Jewish mage mother do now?

>>98593451
Because almost every "good side" faction is infested with and puppeteered by evil. The demon hunters will seal away the evil demon, only to be shot in the back of the head by the demon hunter general, who was possessed by a demon all along.

If you're a Tzimisce and you make your ghoul go get a boob job at a cosmetic surgeon and make her (or possibly him) out of pocket, is that morally better or worse than doing it yourself with Vicissitude

Ill try to make some very basic write up stuff about both the Glamour and Pathos weremoths for tomorrow

Feel free to post ideas and/or numbers here

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>>98593742
Forgot to add image of weremoth

>>98593702
Yes. That’s why I specifically excluded such a being?

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>>98592988

>>98593513
Interesting, I wonder what form it'll look like. To my knowledge only the Progenitors,Iteration X and NWO get involved directly in such things and for different reasons. Syndicate mainly uses the Enforcers to protect their assets and Voidies mainly intervene on earth when there's a serious issue with EDEs otherwise they're too busy starship troopering at threat null

>>98593748
I know, I just wanted to bitch about newfags.

>>98593760
Once again, the writers prove they don't understand the product they made. This is why any section where the writer breaks character and tries to make a statement about "Canon", it shpuld be treated as another unreliable narator or another STs headcanon. They're often just straight-up Wrong, like in the Gehenna book the writer say set is 100% always dead in every scenario, and then have him as a major antagonist in a scenario 140 pages later.

>>98593889
isn't Set a Vampire to begin with

>>98593916
Anon means final-dead, turned to ash. An earlier scenario lists which antedeluviams are and are not alive in all scenarios and tries to say it's the final arbiter of canon, and then is proven wrong in the same book.

>>98593693
>A skilled Syndicate agent can make Epstein look like an unpaid intern.
A skilled one, yes. Less savvy ones are just going to fall into the pyramid schemes of more established Syndicate operatives. No honor among thieves, as the saying goes.

>>98593889
they have him be a factor in two scenarios but in both he does start off being fully dead

in one he get's bought back to the land of the living and kills his own clan for being a disgrace and is then later tricked by saulot into letting him drink caine's blood

and in the other the ritual fails and he uses what is assumed to be presence 10 to make his clan kill themselves without leaving the shadowlands

>>98592653
>>98592696
ppl be acting like they turn decades trained master sorcerers into arete 1 mages and not people with like 2-5 dots spread over esoteric bullshit because this is the equivalent of a bachelors degree in hermeticism over 2-3 years. And the Mage is probably going to awaken into Arete 2-3 with a few spheres if you (wisely) take into account the sorcery exp gets refunded and assigned to spheres (optional) rule.

>>98593959
Even if you're less skilled you'll be able to live a comfortable life. A poor Syndicate agent should be a rare thing. Imagine getting a good corpo job on top of having the connections the convention has.

>>98594019
>ppl be acting like they turn decades trained master sorcerers into arete 1 mages
Anon, that Exactly what they're doing. One of the hermetic starter characters was an alchemy 6 master that awakened himself with a potion to complete his hermetic training. He has Arete 1.
There's another one in the chink mage book. Unrelated, but still hilarious.

>>98594003
To quote the book:"Nice try guys, but your magic isn't bringing a dead god back."
They literally say he can't be rezzed in canon, but STs can make their own houserules.
They then rez him in the same book.

>>98594154
A comfortable life is what most Technocrats can get from their conventions, without needing to worry about the rat race like the Syndicate.

>>98594184
That does sound funny as fuck but I'll contend that is NOT the standard way. And I'll be honest, If I had to guess it's that you think that he made the 6 alchemy awakening potion by looking at sorcerer, when in reality he made a 2 alchemy potion as a "magnum opus" and happened to awaken because he expected it according to the hermetic education pipeline.

>>98593862
NWO should be the standard union response. Black suits are made for damage control and getting the situation under control. Progenitors would show up if they're needed or it's one of their experiments getting out of control. Iteration X is called in when something needs to die and civilian casualties are allowed.

>>98594184
That's fucking hilarious, bro went from having a phd to basically getting a lobotomy

>>98594228
Oh I mentionned progs because in the story a lot of werewolves and vampires are involved. Applied sciences fucking loves to dissect them

>>98594230
> bro went from having a phd to basically getting a lobotomy
worse. he still knows everything he knew before he awakened so he remembers all alchemy recipies he ever did but most of them don't work anymore (if he is doing it)

so it's not that he became retarded he could still teach them to someone else and they would work it's more that his own avatar is gaslighting him

>>98594215
>when in reality he made a 2 alchemy potion as a "magnum opus" and happened to awaken because he expected it according to the hermetic education pipeline.
Anon, that's not how alchemy Or awakening work.
The 2 ways they can awaken are by having the "Struggling Awake" merit and randomly awakening one day in a way that's obviously not from a potion, or they made an alchemy 6 potion. The character sheet says they made the potion and it awakened them.
I can understand the position of "Most trainies were more likely struggling awake rather than master alchemists", but you can't bullshit an awakening with alchemy 2

>Hedge magic users are starting to get uppity
Your pride is as much misplaced as your will is inept. You will never know true power. Now cease your inane prattling before I show you how all your little rituals are obliterated by your betters’ mere will.

>>98594253
>The 2 ways they can awaken
*Awaken as a sorcerer. Learning path magic normally lobotomizes your avatar and permanently stops you from awakening. The merit and potion are the only two ways around that.
Sorcery is of the Weaver, it kills human potential.

>>98594253
No anon, you've got it wrong. What you say is "random" is not random at all, but rather esoteric conditions that open the mind, heavily interplaying with your expectations, your emotions, your fucking soul resonance or whatever. It's FUNCTIONALLY UNKNOWABLE not RANDOM. Big difference.

So, if somebody goes through the hermetic apprentice program(canon), learns sorcery(canon), and does his great work(canon), he EXPECTS to awaken, he was selected because he had the "struggling awake" merit in mechanical terms in the first place and then the potion doesn't do anything but align his expectations and open him up for the truth, the same way a primer would. He could have alchemy 1, 2,3.. it doesn't matter. He also could have any other sorcery path and his great work could've been an impressive ritual. It's just jolting your avatar so to speak in the same way a near death situation does.

>>98594260
>You will never know true power.
>>98594268
>it kills human potential.
Wow, someone pissed off the order of hermes propaganda department something Fierce.

Which Mage way should I go to be an action stuntman?

>>98594279
Ecstatic, if you’re Based.

>>98594274
>the same way a primer would
That's not how primers work anon. The magic itself is what awakens you, that's why it's an artifact that costs permanent willpower to make.

>>98594279
NWO black suit unironically. Action stuntsman bs is their bread and butter coincidental(and sometimes vulgar) rotes. You can go full Equilibrium with it

>>98594279
Akashic. They canonically did kung fu movie stunt work

>>98593407
Hey! That pitbull program was my idea. Keep your hands off my funds.

>>98594292
Kinda, but not really. The point of Willpower is the tiny bit of your understanding of reality, you are putting your heart and soul into the primer in hopes of making it accessible to others. The reader doesn't just read the primer and poof, awakening.

They have to really really fucking understand it. Probably read (or hear, or feel.. a primer isn't always a book) the primer. It's more like a book on reality that's a bit magic because the text is otherwise so thick you can not understand it. You have to have a somewhat similar paradigm, understand the paradigm of the writer on an intimate level, and then the primer can awaken you, or rather you awaken yourself with the help of the primer. It*s likely a lot of the sorcerers learn occult hermetic principles and learn hermetic sorcery so they can go on to successfuly read primers.

>>98594277
Of course anon. If the hermetic inductees find out the order has been tortur-I mean-training them in sorcery for no reason, then there'll be Riots!

>>98594310
i fear they would just continue as before anyway because of the whole "i had to so why shouldn't you" thing the hermetics have going on when it comes to their apprenticeships

>>98594323
The thing about the Hermetic method is that despite everything it still works
They still get new members despite everything that could go wrong for an order to go wrong happening.

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>>98594279
Akashics for the Traditions and can be nearly any Technocrat.

>>98594348
>despite everything that could go wrong for an order to go wrong happening
I feel like the Order of Hermes continued exisyence is a paradox backlash effect. Their methods are nonsense, their culture literally kills their own members, and their paradigm is both limiting and patadox-prone even by mages standards, but they keep semi-succeeding in defiance of all logic and sanity saying they shouldn't.
As for whom is the victim of said backlash, probably the technocrats.

Anyway, Garou nerd x Pixie Manic dream girl Malk kindred romance?

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>>98594365
nta but I put it all to the fact that they are legitimately the strongest Traditions with the deepest pockets and foundation to withstand it. They basically have the wealth of resources, personel and knowledge to continue on despite all of their faults.

>>98592653
Yet even the Technocracy is so retarded that they fail to have their extraordinary citizens mass produce obviously broken artifacts. Why does no one in the World of Darkness know how to optimally use sorcery?

>>98594393
People straight up don't understand this, it seems. The critique here is NOT that the order of hermes is impractical. It's that they are TOO practical and instead of doing mystical enlightenment stuff, they politic and search for magical power. People need to remember that the game is called Mage:The Ascenion and you are supposed to do a mage golconda.

Even if nobody cares and basically this part of the game is ignored by everybody and no theme of the game actually supports it.

>>98594396
>Yet even the Technocracy is so retarded that they fail to have their extraordinary citizens mass produce obviously broken artifacts
The technocracy's greatest sin is that they invented a way to mass produce True Magick artifacts without human intervention, can literally just plop down a factory and produce billions of artifacts a day, and They Never Use It. They have artifact factories that make artifact factories, and they sit around collecting dust.

>>98592304
Conversely, fire becomes an OP countermeasure, especially when you can use it liberally.
(one campaign premise got derailed when the neonate tried showing off her Tremere path of flame in front of the prince by lighting a cigarette, and he botched his shrek)

>>98594391
What about garou philodox x changeling with adhd?

>>98594415
I guess that's the primary appeal of the World of Darkness, that you get to play the only sane, rational and intelligent people in a setting full of complete fucking retards who don't know how to take advantage of the mechanics of the setting that they exist in.

>>98594415
>How do we advance the timeline
>Mass-produce firebreath rounds and sell them on the cheap to hunter cells. Make sure we're never discovered as the source. The Imbued will usually point the mundanes in a direction
>Also, make all Conventions produce uniforms that have fire-retardant material built in, just in case.

>>98594415
Blame the writers. They made the technocracy near-godlike in 1e because it was supposed to be the designated villain faction. When they realized that a large chunk of thr playerbase liked the idea of playing world of darkness: men in black meets star treck, they kept writing themselves into corners to nerf them.

>>98594430
...look man. You are talking like one of the fuckwards in a "rational" fanfic. Like how "Uuuh if I was in Marvel I would get the Captain America formula, then the Extremis and then go find the Ancient One to learn Magic. Turn Captain America's frisbee into something useful. Gather the infinity stones and pawn Thanos by going for the head. I am so smart" SIs that would in reality die before they even accomplished anything.

>>98594415
They needed them to be retarded or things would fall apart. Imagine being able to spread hypertech amongst sleepers in huge numbers. Cyborgs and mechs would be coincidental in no time.

>>98594430
Anon, That wasn't a mechanics thing. The artifact factories are from the Lore.

>>98594442
>I would get the Captain America formula, then the Extremis
Dooesn't taking both at once make you explode violently, according to the agents of shield tv show?

>>98594445
That's even worse and even more retarded. How is the Technocratic Union even able to hold society together and run the world if they're such gigantic mouth-breathing retards?

>>98594442
>You are talking like one of the fuckwards in a "rational" fanfic.
Anon, that's what every World of Darkness game is. Every game is about being the only smart people capable of teamwork and rational thinking in an entire setting full of irrational, hateful retards. The only games that aren't about this are ones where you're intentionally playing characters as retarded as the rest of the World of Darkness.

>>98594391
You need to pair the manic pixie blah blah blah with a frigid autist. Garou are too passionate, a garou nerd would have epic level gamer rage.

>>98594444
>>98594458
Anons, this is adressed. The short of it is: technocracy is Too powerful.
If they actually deployed in full force earthside, they'd crack the fragile consensual reality like an egg and all the barriers that hold back magic would start to unravel. That's why they're religious about sticking to the time-table. Going too hard too fast means a repeat of the moon landing that brought back fairies.
Hell, the Fallen coming back was their fault too. It was the result of the nukes they dropped on Ravnos.

>>98594465
>a garou nerd would have epic level gamer rage.
>Garou nerd wrestles against himself to kill pixie manic Malk or fuck her while he games
Kino

Shark here! Oooh boy do I have stuff to tell you guys all about today! I’m about to eat dinner soon, so I’ll reward your patience with something my ST told us.

Next game, and the one after are going to be the craziest. Also known as Shark Weeks because there’s going to be lots of fighting and some of us are likely to die!

>>98594415
What the fuck do you mean they have artifact factories that make artifact factories. Jesus they really ARE the weaver's strongest soldiers

>>98594472
>If they actually deployed in full force earthside, they'd crack the fragile consensual reality like an egg and all the barriers that hold back magic would start to unravel.
Why don't they create artifacts to deal with that? They've got infinite resources at their disposal, there's no reason why they shouldn't be able to solve this problem unless they're complete retards.

>>98594461
true to a degree but needs to be separated from mechanics as intended by the fiction and mechanics as presented by the system. These are two different factors which lead to people looking retarded. The answer to one is "Yes they are retarded because this is punk and you must fix it and be better." and the other is "Peasant Railgun doesn't actually work you faggot, kys."

>>98594487
>Jesus they really ARE the weaver's strongest soldiers
And the funniest part is that the weaver had nothing to do with it. Humanity does 100% on it's own.
The weaver just took one look at the technocracy and decided to adopt them because her own kids were too retarded.

>>98594506
Though like the rest of WoD, the Technocracy is retarded too. Which is fine with the Weaver, because she's pretty retarded in her own way too.

>>98594489
Genuinely the reason is the fact the game is urban fantasy. You see this issue all the fucking time in this genre and honestly having a supplement where it's just world of future darkness 2 with the masquerade blown off could be really fun, if only because it'd allow all the factions to actually do stuff instead of twisting themselves into pretzels looking for reasons to conform to real life(Although speculating about how fucking retarded the situation is when looking at 2026 is pretty funny too)

>>98594520
Wouldn't a rational and sensible humanity be able to wipe that floor with all of these supernatural factions in a heartbeat, considering how retarded they all are?

>>98594492
Except everything that sorcerers can make with Alchemy 6 and Enchanting 6 is actually canon and actually existing in the setting. Sorcerers with Binding 6 and Summoning 6 can actually and really summon and bind Gaia and the Triat to their will in the actual setting, and it's retarded that no one has actually thought to do this yet.

>>98594524
Well see anon, they wouldn't be ENTIRELY rational because the masquerade being blown open would probably lead to world war III or just a metric shitload of general strife and the wyrm's servants and the nephandus and Threat Null and aliens and-

>>98594524
That would be the case even if the supernatural factions were also rational and sensible.
Humans are the strongest splat in the game as the sorcerer discussion above pointed out. They could absolutely wipe the floor with 99% of the supernatural world if they weren't being kept ingorant and brainwashed.

>>98594533
Yeah, but what's stopping some smart humans from just enslaving a bunch of sorcerers and getting them to mass produce everything that they need to produce an effectively infinite arsenal capable of wiping the floor with the rest of the supernatural splats?

>>98594560
uuuh erm uuh werewolf spirit fetish(the magic kind) camps and vamps getting uppity?

>>98594567
What do vampires and werewolves have that could stand up to six-dot Sorcery?

>>98594520
Which is silly because WoD isn't actually real life and has all kinds of insane nonsense that people in that setting fully accept as being real.
WoD has mechsuits, basic AI (like real AI not like LLMs) being put into children's toys, functional cybernetics, if you wanna use X5 lore then concentration camps in the middle of major cities with caseless ammo and death fog producers, etc etc.
It's an 'exaggerated' version of the near future... written in the early 00's, with all that comes with that, and is set in a genre of 'gothic' fiction that increases people's apathy far more than real life.

The problem with the "street level" stuff is that the World of Darkness doesn't resemble any world that people actually live in, and the longer the setting continues going the more obvious that'd become. Just trying to say that any one splat is doing their job as the secret rulers properly becomes less and less believable because an actual real life global conspiracy hiding the supernatural would leave us with more competent leaders than we've actually got.

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>>98594567
>the magic kind
Having seen what women read, I assure you there will be plenty of the other kind.

>>98594472
Changelings getting a boost in glamour was a minor downside of advancing the consensus. Most technocratic artifacts would make it easier to dismiss anything mystical and allowing them to stop the trads. They could deal with anything that comes up since their magic would be much easier and safer to use.

>>98594575
That's the real funny thing about all those ''secret worlds'' settings tied to real life isn't it, the elite is so beyond retarded that it's just unbelievable that 500000 IQ gigachad genius satan is guiding society from behind the scenes

>>98594571
Catgirls with 6th dot sorcery, as anon >>98593553 pointed out.

>>98594593
What's stopping humanity from enslaving them too?

>>98594593
It's actually weird to know that the apex predators of WoD are unironicly catgirls.

>>98591998
Is it common knowledge in WoD that Tremere (supposedly) diablerised Saulot? The lore seems to suggest simultaneously that Clan Tremere did it to gain legitimacy amongst the other clans, but also that it was a well-kept secret. Which is it?

>>98594529
Eeeeeeeeeeeeh. You are treating example rituals without any explained costs (the BIG balancing factor, you are playing an actual chronicle and not just theorycrafting with enchanting 6, right?) and also quite possibly insurmountable successes required versus an unknowable amount of countermeasures.
It's like saying lash of rage exists, antediluvians have 7 health levels, x garou with lash of rage nodiff an antediluvian. Yes, well, technically, maybe? But werewolf rules weren't written with antediluvians in mind..

Like what if Gaia just has a power that says she's immune or whatever. Completely feasible, considering she's not..stattable. And the existence of 6 sorcery dots is itself treated like "plot device", it specifically says something like "if such powers exist, here is what they could possibly do."

>>98594602
What's stopping catgirls from enslaving humanity? They're already almost there IRL, and catgirls don't even exist yet.

>>98594602
Toxoplasmosis

>>98594609
>the BIG balancing factor, you are playing an actual chronicle and not just theorycrafting with enchanting 6, right?
Anon, enchanting doesn't Have a cost, that's alchemy. You can make an enchanting 6 item with a piece of wood and 6 days of work.

>>98594610
Humanity's got numbers on their side and aren't terribly retarded like all of the supernatural splats.

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>>98594621
>You can make an enchanting 6 item with a piece of wood and 6 days of work.
No. I'll assume Sorcerer Revised. Also:

"Enchantments are never a matter of numbers and creation systems; they should flow fromthe story and roleplaying,
not die rolls. While we've given some examples, a smart enchantress can come up with many more." That sounds very much like the book telling you no faggot, you are not making your level 6 enchantment in 6 days of work with a piece of wood. Get the fuck out of here. Also to talk about six dot artifacts, this is all Revised says about the subject: "Talismans of this potency are more rumor and myth than they are quantifiable fact."

>>98594645
If all of the splats are retarded, it logically follows that humanity is retarded too. If humanity isn't retarded, it doesn't make sense to assume that all the splats are retarded. As always, boring HFY garbage is inconsistent and uninteresting.

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>>98594645
>aren't terribly retarded

>>98594645
Since nothing in the rules says you have to drink the entire potion, a theoretical 6 alchemy catgirl could just spill a potion that turns you into a catgirl into the groundwater. It's like a zombie infection virus plot.

>>98594608
Basically an open secret. But more, like it doesn’t really matter to most modern day neonates. For the newly Embraced PC within the CENTURY, there have always been Tremere among the Clans. You don’t assume otherwise and don’t really question it. But remember, the Antediluvians don’t exist, so Saulot didn’t actually exist, so… what were we talking about again? Exactly.

>>98594650
Unless you can cite rules regarding what roleplaying is required for enchantment, you can just concede and admit that you don't know what the fuck you're talking about.

>>98594608
vampire culture changed over 900 years it was open knowledge in the dark ages but is downplayed (just like the existence of the 3rd generation in general) in modern nights