More like Legio...IGNORE 'EM editionPrevious thread: >>98690107>HH 3.0 - Complete gofile - All Books:https://gofile.io/d/cnJk0N>Titanicus Compendiumshttps://gofile.io/d/Qiwij4PJ>New Edition, to a great wailing and gnashing of teeth:https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/setting/warhammer-the-horus-heresy/>Official FAQ/Errata/Downloads:https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/downloads/warhammer-the-horus-heresy/>Thread FAQ (very old, remembers Age of Terra)https://pastebin.com/iUqNrrA8https://pastebin.com/8riDmnhS>30k TACTICA & TIPShttps://pastebin.com/Tm2P4QLphttps://1d6chan.miraheze.org/wiki/Age_of_Darkness-Warhammer_30k/3.0_Tactics/General_Tactics『Adeptus Titanicus and Legions Imperialis』>Official FAQ/Errata/Downloadshttps://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/downloads/legions-imperialis/>List of Titan Legions with Badges and Colourshttps://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/17Jccq0V--SwJifLVLwbisYnQeqLlS2pMSiPbGXp1Brs/htmlview>More listshttps://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/List_of_Titan_Legions>What size magnets do I need?5x1mm>Tacticshttps://1d6chan.miraheze.org/wiki/Adeptus_Titanicus/Tactics>Legions Imperialis Army Builderhttps://legionbuilder.app/TQ: Why don't you like the new product™?
>>98698922>TQNew termies poses are stiff as my dick and overall they are too round but I can't place my finger on what causes them to be so roundPauldrons I think
>>98698922>TQ: Why don't you like the new product™?The new aquilon terminators suffer from all the exact same problems the new catas did. The HH team seems to be allergic to making terminators that are properly bulky, the new tartaros are gonna look like SoS armour mark my words.
>>98698955The new aquilon aren’t nearly as lanky as the cataphractii, but the baby fists aren’t helping. Honestly a bulkier fist and adding a plume could go a long way to fixing them, but the stiff standing up pose is another matter.
>>98698922>TQbecause its a 40k product disgusied as a 30k one, using 30k resourceswe don't have shit like plastic outrider bikes, recon squads etc because the 30k model designers have been put on designing products that are primarily aimed at the 40k audienceyou can't tell me this is a "heresy reveal" when they almost immediately pivot to their 40k rules, 40k codex and 40k combat patrol, with an "oh btw 30k book too haha" at the endand STILL no SoSI swear we havent had a 30k reveal that isnt custodes besides the MK4 and books for like a year
>>98698986>Two, TWO journals of troonstodes fighting daemons>Not a single SoS model or rule in sightIt's so insulting.
>>98699006>2 cutodes boxes and 3 release waves>not a single SoS unit
>>98699013GW better be preparing a full SoS model range and full journal rules release to come out after they're done gagging on cuckstodes troon dick.
>>98698986>I swear we havent had a 30k reveal that isnt custodes besides the MK4 and books for like a yearWe got a bunch of vehicles and superheavies earlier in the year. Also loads of SA.
>>98699013>No SoSUnironically what for? Marines have like a dozen HQ and only one of them is a psyker. SoS are like Reductor: they counter an enemy type that isn't found in the game. And at least Reductor was given emergency utility against parked vehicles.
>>98699126First off, there's two marines HQ that are psykers, if you ignore all named characters. Second, Thousand Sons exist and are reasonably popular. And with Tzeentch daemons being able to turn off terrain, daemons and psykers might start showing up a lot more in competitive events.
Just make SoS work on normal humans You don't have to be a daemon to lose morale around them
>>98699157Oh true, there's the Librarian and the... Summoner devilmancer? Idk his name — Centurions, Delegatii and Praetors are like 80% of the HQ around.And Tzeentch is now availability to Militia, right? Both Militia players will be delighted :^)
>>98699166True, whenever I see a woman I want to run away, I can imagine space marines understand the tactical necessity of retreating from such vile creatures
>>98699126SoS are also SM killers in the lore. They use their null powers to get close and use their power swordsMarines and other mortals simply can't see them.
>>98699252>Marines and other mortals simply can't see them.I'm no lore autist but I think it's only the most extreme nulls, like Krole and other Oblivion Knightsbut still you can scale itnormal sister reduce morale around them stronger nulls get cover save or something as people literally can't see them
>>98698922>TQ: Why don't you like the new product™?Because they look like ass and prove the heresy team shouldn't be allowed near infantry.Aquillons were the bulky terminator, the improved cataphractii-derivative, so chunky they needed a 50mm base. Now we've got slim jim with the boring silhouette, the badass solarite talons are basically just pointy tips on the regular gauntlet, and the extra leg armour feels slapped on instead of engineered from the ground up. Plus, the heads are tiny and the lack of posing is just awful. Heresy team unironically should only be allowed to do vehicles and dreadnoughts.
>>98699006Why do we need SoS? Custodes can be women now, we'll shoehorn them in instead of developing the original female faction, obviously.
>>98699166If the make non-Talons lose LD/Cool, that'd be strong. Maybe make units that get in combat with them take a Stun test (to make them i1) idk
>>98699279>Because they look like ass and prove the heresy team shouldn't be allowed near infantry.I'm becoming more and more convinced that all these shitty redesigns for various infantry kits come down to a designer wanting to '''leave their mark''' or something, because GW has painstakingly recreated so many vehicle kits almost 1:1 from resin, along with much of the mechanicum robot range. It's bizarre that we got a super over-engineered plastic kit to make 1:1 thallax but marine and custodes infantry get totally redesigned.
>>98699258Old Invisibility caused the enemy's WS to effectively be WS1. Regular SoS could thus inflict WS-1 on enemies.Full Culexus are hit only on snapshots, because invisible. Maybe SoS could inflict -1BS
>>98699279>Aquillons were the bulky terminator, the improved cataphractii-derivative, so chunky they needed a 50mm base.NTA, and while I hate the nu-aquilons, aquilons were very clearly tartaros or indomitus inspired, the only thing cataphractii about them is the pteurge loincloth
>>98699381These guys are cata
>>98699403Yeah and those aren't aquilons. We never got those guys.
>>98699331>>98699420If sculptors want to leave their mark, they should just create all the stuff in Visions of Heresy. People keep asking for bullock jet bikes, but all the sculptors heard was "bollocks & dickbikes"
>>98698977No stop polishing shit, it's still shit.
>>98699006Should have done Blood Angels, maybe they will be next with Khorne daemons.
>>98699252Nah mate, astartes rekt them, they only had an edge against TS because they were psykers and had Custodes support.
>>98699433They did start making visions of heresy shit. That's why we got that failed abortion of a plastic mk3 kit instead of it being relegated to a resin upgrade.
>>98699433Yeah Visions is a goldmine.
>>98699469How is nu-mk3 vision of heresy design?
>>98699456>BA vs Khorne journal about the Signus campaignNow that would just be too cool and make too much sense.
>>98699495
>>98699511Any art of the armour matching nu-mk3 besides heads?
How do you like your one new kit with three new models? :)
Homebrew unit idea. Thoughts?
>>98699540Their special rule may be a bit too strong, but I figured theyre glass-cannony enough that they can be allowed to be "super win more". Especially since "win more" is already the night lords character this edition, and theyre supposed to be "the night lordsiest night lords"
>>98699540>Cheap, fragile elites with an ungodly amount of attacksLooks like a WE unit, doesn't feel like NL at all.
>>98699555Anon you just described night raptors.
>>98699562Did I mention jump packs? Shut the fuck up you contrarian dipshit.
>>98699555>Cheap, fragile elitesIs the NL flavor for special units. All of their stuff has (or is supposed to have anyways) a high damage output and the durability of a paper napkin in a hurricane. None of it is suited for bawling (like red butchers and rampagers are) and instead theyre about fast alpha strikes that dont leave anyone to fight back.
>>98699381Aren't Allarus the Tartaros-based ones? They sure feel closer, aside from the different shoulders. (also, I'm fairly sure they were expicitly developed from tartaros)
>>98699580>Contekar and atramentar terminators have the durability of a paper napkin
>>98699577>Did I mention jump packs?No, you mentioned "fragile elites with lots of attacks"WE are about low quality but high volume, their elites are on the cheap side (rampers are 22ppm for 2A vets with power weapons+) and are designed for just cost effective general combat.NL are about high offense and low defense, none of their units are good at being hit for the pts cost. A unit of praetorian command squad with 3+ power armor (and a higher pts cost, but higher damage) is definetly more NL than it is WE. >>98699596They are fragile as far as terminators go, yes. Theyre tartaros without any special durability gimmicks, and in the case of atramentar are more expensive than the default version. Compare them to red butchers, with eternal warrior and cataphrachtii armor.
>>98699603>WE are about low quality but high volumeYou're making my arguments for me. Guess you didn't even look at that homebrew melee weapon, you dumb cunt. >Terminators aren't durable unless they have eternal warriorReally applying those Olympic mental gymnastics to feel like you're in the right huh.
>>98699467SoS kill Astartes every time they're featured in the lore, and not just TSSure, they're just human women. But baseline humans with power armour, power weapons, flamers, and boltguns are a threat to any marine, specially if they can't perceive them clearly.
>>98699623>You're making my arguments for me.Only if you are too retarded to understand anything of what was being talked about. >the weaponI thought your argument was bad, but "+A modifier weapons are WE" is somehow even worse. >Terminators aren't durable unless they have eternal warriorYes you inbred moron, a more expensive version of the "fragile" terminator armor is not durable as far as terminators go. Compared to a more durable version of the durable terminator armor, which is durable as far as terminators go. Contekar and Flay clade are not "durable" units for the class theyre in. You can compare them to firedrakes, ebon keshig, gorgons, laerneans, it doesent matter. Theyre glass cannons, which is what the NL unit character is.
>>98699540>any item from the sergeant weaponsoh look,WS5 thunder hammer squad hitting at I4 with Damage 3why are you giving them fear 2, they're already fighting a unit that's under one or more statuses, they'd be hitting first without impact I, they're never going to take those blades when they could take twin claws (which doesn't even give up their bolters!) and get base 5A with 1/6 for them to auto-wound at AP2 with D2, there's not going to be anything left to run awaycongratulations on solving the big problem of the last edition by simply making a more obnoxious version of exactly the same thing tho
>>98699695>WS5 thunder hammer squad hitting at I4 with Damage 3I3, which NL already get for the same cost on jump pack infantry. >they're already fighting a unit that's under one or more statuses, they'd be hitting first without impact I,Largely because night raptors have it (and atramentar) so it felt reasonably fluffy for another elite NL unit, since - as you pointed out - they dont want to have to care about the impact(I) due to statuses. But it can be removed if its problematic.>and get base 5A with 1/6 for them to auto-wound at AP2 with D2If they fight a statussed unit. Yes. Its definetly possible theyre "too" win more, but the NL trait (+1WS) is already basically a guaranteed win in most combats (because you go first hitting on 3s with thunder hammers or whatever). And if you can manage to ONLY fight statussed units theyre going to be absolutely insane (why bother with claws, against statussed units the killers blades are basically as good for less), with the caveat of course being "you are probably not only ever going to fight statussed units", either because someone passes their checks (or are malefic) or because someone charged you or whatever else. And when THAT happens (or you get shot) you have a command squad for a bunch more points and a lot less durability. Which is where the balance is (supposed to anyways) come in, they can dish out insane amounts of damage, genuinely stupid levels of offense, but they cant take hits nearly as well as other units at their price point (and being infantry: cant rely on innate mobility to avoid danger).>Why fear(2)Because I figured it was cool mostly. Help make them feel a bit more special. So I decided their company standard equivalent could do that. Maybe its a bit much (or should be more expensive, or maybe it should be something like the efrits fuckery aura, idk).
>>98699630Do mention their artificer gear. Pic related look so cool you didn't get angry their S3 power swords needed a 5+ to wound regular marines
>>98699630Do you have a source on that lorewise? I still doubt they can do 1 on 1 and win.
>>98699769I miss when special close combat weapons (power, chain, etc.) had fixed stats, while basic close combat weapons (knives, axes, etc.) used the user's strength.
>>98699769God crusaders were cool;.
>>98699823Wait, back then power weapons ignored the target's armour, but did they also wound on a set number regardless of the wielder's strength? :O
>>98699833No. Back in 2e weapons had strength, save modifier and damage. Save modifier was also like in WHFB, where S4 gave AP-1, S5 gave AP-2, etc. So while a chainsword was S4 AP-1 for both a marine and a guardsman, a marine's plain sword was S4 (and thus AP-1 from the strength modifier) while a guardsman's was S3 and didn't receive a strength modifier to AP.
To keep the discussion about fortifications, we take our fortifications pretty seriously. Without rules for now, but you never know
And sorry for the offtopic, but I must share. We have this too. Bought for a friends 50th birthday, he is a Bretonnia veteran.
>>98699469
>>98699913>we take our fortifications pretty seriously*bombards you from orbit*
>>98699956It's justified, thoughMkIII is the worst of all the redesigns.The new helmet was a huge downgrade compared to the old one
>>98700019>MkIII knees>Primaris knees>Dreadnought ventsBro what's with 40k minis and knees
>>98699947I remember you!God thats a good present, hope your friend appreciates having people like you.
>>98699981>Covered by void shieldsPlonk
>>98699999Quints of truth.In general I'm not a fan of this new design where everything looks inflated. Things are all round and soft. There's a lack of hard lines. I do enjoy the new MkIIs, so it's a shame the MkIIIs are such a disappointment. If the new heads were the same size as old ones, I would've bought buckets of the new II and III helmets to give my models. But alas...
>>98699999I dont mind the new MKIII standalone, but its an atrocity compared to the old design.
>>98699999
>>98700048GW made things rounder because sharp angles wear out molds faster so it's a decision dictated by greed rather than a new style or anything. A huge departure from old FW or even just the GW calth and prospero mks where they just ported the design as close as possible from the FW resin sets.
>>98700107>where they just ported the design as close as possible from the FW resin sets.No, they improved it, because they didn't copy the dogshit FW skinny jean legs
>>98700107>sharp angles wear out molds fasterEven plastic injection moulds? There's kits GW has been producing for 30 years. Do we have any indication that the detail on them has reduced or that GW has remade said moulds (and why wouldn't they just make a whole new kit if the cost of making the mould is the same)?
>>98700148The old MkIII legs were actually beefier that other designs, and the late FW MkIII even added extra detail to improve them.It's a shame that it was replaced just when it was perfect.
>>98699738Impact (I) makes them I5 on the charge, meaning their th are I4 that turn>If they fight a statussed unitso the unit that can take shotguns, rotor cannons and flamers and force 3 tests before it charges, at a minimum -1 penalty and almost certainly at -2, isn't going to always be getting that, brilliant, i'm sure they'll never mulch multiple elite squads in a single game with their native +1 to woundcongrats on building a blender
>>98700148Imagine having a taste this shit and being so convinced it's good.
>>98699947>>98699918>>98699913Super cool! Plus it's not off topic, this is a table ready for a siege battle on a feudal world, just imagine Iron Warriors (Loyalist) defending that castle and Iron Warriors (Traitors) sieging it
>>98700154>Even plastic injection moulds? Less so than resin which is why certain older FW kits that haven't had their molds replaced in a while have softer details but yeah. I noticed it when holding both a calth and a much later generic (non-nu-)mk4 box during 2.0.
>>98700167If only we would have gotten the DA interemptors' Mk III armour in plastic... All they had to do was remove the DA iconography.
>>98700268maybe that partially explains why the Red Corsairs kits are so expensive
>>98700294Nah that's just classic GW greed.
>>98700193Anon, 5-2 = 3. Thunder hammers are I-2. Night raptors, who also have Impact(I) go at I3 also.>so the unit that can take shotguns, rotor cannons and flamers and force 3 tests before it chargesYes, and there is a chance those tests fail, particularly against elite enemies ( that tend to have good mental stats). But also: you can already do 3+ statuses on the charge with other units (like terror squad), havoc launchers exist and are assumed present because the unit needs a transport. This is also though once again assuming the charge, which is not guaranteed for an infantry unit. >i'm sure they'll never mulch multiple elite squads in a single game with their native +1 to woundThey very well might, but the hatred wont be why. Thunder hammers (the presumed default weapon option, since it tends to be the case) wound on 2s anyways even vs terminators. LIghtning claws rely on their rending 6+ (and later fish for 6s to wound, which the hatred doesent help with). Hatred is a good rule, and im sure there will be instances where it is very useful (particularly if you go with the nostraman chain weapons), but it is also largely irrelevant in a lot of combats when you have the higher tier weapons/in combats vs more elite enemies. >congrats on building a blenderThat is admittedly their intended role. Theyre a more combat oriented command squad. One that trades the durability of artificer armor (and access to combat shields) for more offense (situationally) and some utility (at a higher pts cost). Command squads are, already, blenders. A Night lords command squad with thunder hammers will - already - brutalize basically anyone if it can fight an opponent with a status (as will night raptors, who have many of the same rules as these guys sans Butchers)Maybe thats a fundamentally unhealthy design space, an even more "win more" unit in the "win more" legion (because thats what the trait IS, win more).
>>98700330CotdMaybe Butchers should be less focused on raw combat power (or if it were, be something more situational, like murderous(X) or whatever) and instead be something like "can reroll charges vs statussed opponents". Still conveys much of the same character (although it encourages the generally good weapons like thunder hammers, which I kind of wanted to avoid as much as possible). To sort of elaborate: The current dichotomy (as I see it) is that they can either be kitted out in generic fashion (thunder hammers/headsmans axes (thunder hammer equivalent essentially)) and be a generically good facebater unit (if overpriced for what they do - night raptors being just straight better at that job) with the potential to have the critical hits matter against like, deathwing companions and custodes (or other 3w/EW(1) 2w guys). Or you can run them "cheap" (still the same cost as something like dawnbreakers or templar brethren or palatines) with just twin blades or chainweapons and rely on their critical hits rule to bring them up to par with other elite units (killers blades are a lot better with D2 rending hits), but in this configuration theyre entirely reliant on getting the status every time, which on top of their already poor durability (for the cost) seems fair for the trade off (above-par damage for the cost)Its possible theyre overtuned, that one - or more - of the special rules they got simply because terror squad/night raptors have them are simply unnecessary/too much, or maybe twin killers blades should only be A+1, or some other tweaks.
>>98700361>"can reroll charges vs statussed opponents"Actually, rerolls arent a thing any more are they? So itd be something like the WB shattered legion rule "when charging a unit containing one or more models with a tactical status, you roll an additional die and pick the highest result out of the three" or something.
>>98700370Another possible tweak, and this is a bit "remove options to make the unit play as intended" would be to simply remove the generic weapons options (no more sgts weapons list). Make them HAVE to play around nostraman chain weapons/killers blades. Probably keep the axe (I wanted a unit that could have them generically) but either restrict it somehow (sgt and X/5?) or upcost it or something.
>>98700294None of the miniatures sold by GW are worth their money.
>>98700148>FW skinny jean legsPowered Jeans is a Sek-Amrak thing
>>98700294Also to add to my post(>>98700531) GW has a retardedly big 70%-ish gross profit and 40% net profit which is mind boggling. Forget 3d printing miniatures, james is 2d printing cash. The fucking semiconductor industry has that profit margin, something goverments are fighting over both in trading and actual boots on the ground fighting.
>>98700576It is the year 2045, the only UK industry to still make a profit (and not be a nationalized daycare for social beneficiaries) is GW. They are now 40% of the UK economy. They have still not been given permision for a new factory.
>>98700576>>98700588Fuck off with your off topic bullshit. You lower the collective IQ of this place
>>98700588>The man who owns GW owns the UK and leads it as it's emperor>It is the bloodiest regime of plastic crack production imaginable >Forget the promise of good rules for there is only shrimpification>Forget the concept of good sculpts for there are only cad slop designs made by thirdworders>There is no peace only the share holders wanting the line to go up by 0.0001%
>>98700588Gork (or possibly Mork) is this true
>>98700637False. Behold:"I think traits that work on a charge (e.g.: BA's) should still work on a disordered charge, seeing how traits like the Imperial Fists' (+1 to hit w/bolts) still works when Suppressed"
>>98700687No. Disordered charges should not benefit from any rules that benefit charges, including traits that grant those rules.
Good evening, all.1. Did Chaplains wear those skull helmets/masks during the Heresy, or is that 40K2. Did Sanguinary Guard wear those death masks during the Heresy, or is that 40K3. Can a regular Astartes use any Custodes equipment? For example, if the DarkMech "jailbroke" a guardian spear.
>>987007421/2: You will find different accounts based on different sources and depictions. Whatever you want is fine. 3: "yes", Argel Tal took a spear from some custard he killed for example. So if you want /yourguy/ to use one you can do it. It was obviously not very common because the custodes never really left their basement and also didnt exactly die very much (until the siege, when they started dropping like flies).
>>98700739Then snapshots shouldn't benefit from +1 to hit
>>987007421.depends on the legion2.yes, but not all3.not really except in very special cases, like Argen Tal and the Guardian spear he looted from a dead banana
>>98700761I would be okay with that honestly. It would fit with other rules (like augury scanners) not working with snapshots.
>>987007421. Some did, some didn't, depended on the legion/company's traditions2. Yes, though not all of them. But the Sanguinary guard's death mask tradition has been around since the Great Crusade even.3. No, absolutely not. People who are discovered using tech exclusive to the Custodes are punished by execution.
>>987007421. Yes2. Yes3. Yes but the guy who did it had unholy assistance.
>>98698977A more dynamic pose and some knotty tops would make them slightly less shit.
I read that with the new journal militia could get the „tzeentch“ trait but i cant find the rule or rules interaction stating that. Only for solar aux with the fateweaver cohort. Would someone point me in the right direction please if there is something for the militia?
>>98700852Nope, its only for the SA cohorts. Militia would need a houserule or FaQ. Just add a homebrew provenance that gives you the tzeench trait and so on, done.
Would someone be so kind to link to a pdf of the new-ish Custodes / Tzeentch journal, please ?
>>98700998There hasn't been a scan yet, you'll have to be a little more patient.
>>98700779
>>98699540Let's compare them with Paired Killer blade to Veteran assault squad with Paired LC >Both 170pts>They can be embarked in a rhino but lose the jetpack (neutral)>Plethora of very good special rule, especially hatred>Much better at killing anything not Sv3+, bounce on termies just the same>Significantly worst at killing Sv3+Definitely not a great pick except against even less meta armies, i'd allow it.
>>98701359>bounce on termies just the same(with a status) the twin blade guys would do around 2x as much (critical hits are D2 vs the rending D1). without they do a fraction of the damage (no rending), which is where the real damage comes in on TLC.
How would you stat raptors? My gut feeling (without knowing their specifics and just hearing "mutated pseudo demon ravenguard bird people") would be something like GVB (insofar as theyre S5 and maybe T5, but only 2w. Jump infantry (bird people). Some sort of twin claws thing. Fear(1) since theyre spooky mutants. Maybe mandatory charges like the blackshields trait?
>>98701387Hows something like this?
>>98700637Fuck off james.
>>98701387Allied detachment of genebulked chymeriae blackshields in 1.0.
>>98701028
>>98700998No proper scan, bunch of images last thread.
>>98700779anon, I agree the new terminators have shitty static poses, but those slop poses are way worse.
>>98699504But wasn’t that basically what Book 8 Malevolence was about anyways?
I'm putting a saturnine Praetor, 10 cataphractii, and a tartaros stormseer in a spartan and you can't stop me
>>98702002>Attaching a Saturnine to Cataphractii This is why the Kahn no longer talks to you, brother Fatsogay
>>98699999Digits checked, argument verified.
Actual honest question: why would a Malagra Archmagos ever take a Crux of Judgement trio of Arcuitors?1. Instead of spending an Apex on 3 HQ who don't unlock any detachment themselves, who are forced to be their own unit and can't join anyone else...or we could just bring them as 3 regular HQ with no restrictions?2. What do you want an Arcuitor for, when you already have a Malagra Archmagos who might be wounded by hammers on a 6, and still be WS7?
>>98699999I agree. People like trolling about it or just have awful taste.
>>98700279You can do that with a hobby knife.
>>98702132NEEDS MORE ASS
Do these Land Raider door fit on a plastic Spartan as well?
>>98700024What was the post?
>>98702336Only the side doors.
>>98702417Alright thanks.
You're buying the old custards before they get removed, right? Right? The new combat patrol in 40k with 0 old custards is only the beginning
>>98702575>Buying cuntstodes at allWouldn't be me.
>>98702181Removing details on resin minis turn them plastic? I didn't know that
>>98702181What kind of dark magic hobby knife are you using that turns resin models into plastic?
>>98702575Nice try James but the old ones are ugly as fuck
>>98702575>buying any version of custodes
>>98702336Truly they have forsaken the Imperial Truth
>>98702132Arcuitors can be WS8 in challenges, even in Crux of Judgement they're still Command and so all can join another Unit (as well as being joined by the archmagos they're meant to be fluffy bodyguards/enforcers for), even if one gets locked in a challenge the majority WS is still 6 so almost everything is going to struggle to hit them let alone wound let alone get past their 5++/5+++, it doesn't stop you taking LoW, you can get Retinue slots via Logistical, Officer Cadre + Primary only gives you five Command slots and in battles of any size you're going to want at least two probably more Magos casters buffing your skeleton horde and since you can't get more Command without Logistical (which you want for Retinue so your Magos can has Scyllax/Echidnax) or taking Malagra as your High Command (ie Crux of Judgement) it becomes worthwhileplus if you want you can go all-in on Crux and have five Arcuitors and a Malagra Archmagos in one unit with majority WS6 and just roll around murdering people
>>98702336Yes, and the land raider front plate KIND OF does as well. Requires a little cutting, and the "teeth" of the door wont line up naturally, but with a little extra modding they will.
>>98702711LOSS?
>>98702768Doors are neat but personally I want the big flat spaces for dem fancy transfers I boughted.
>>98702711WHAT THA
>>98702856My b bro
>>98701457Upon feedback from elsewhere (about them maybe being a bit too good) maybe something like this? Would also help them feel more different to dark furies thanks to a different speed and initiative on the charge. S6 T5 should make them much better at muching lower tier infantry and T5 with innate shrouded makes them a bit tankier. But theyre worse into elites and less safe in melee due to "Only" I4.
>>98702978Double up their wounds.
>>98703092That seems excessive. GVB are 3w, but theyre also a lot more expensive and a lot slower.
>>98699999It's a fixable problem, though.
For an assault squad, how necessary would the power weapons be vs just chainswords?
>>98703517A few power weapons means the assault squad will still send a 10 man tactical squad running from combat even after losing a few assault marines to shooting.
Thoughts on using thunder hammers as counts-as power mauls? I dont like how power mauls look normally.
>>98703589As long as you dont have any other thunder hammer equipped units in your army.Otherwise maybe differentiate them by shortening the handles, painting them a different colour, etc.
>>98703602>As long as you dont have any other thunder hammer equipped units in your army.I probably will.
>>98703589Absolutely not. Thunder hammers are too iconic to be used as anything else. If you don't like the look of power mauls just use power axes, the difference between the power weapons is small enough this edition that you can just pick what you think looks cool.
>>98703606power axes look ugly though.
>>98703618Fucking hell anon, don't play warhammer if you think everything looks ugly.
>>98703619Thats not me (the original guy). I have the exact opposite issue, I really like how power axes look and am running out of them. I have 3 left, and a despoiler squad left to do (which I want to do with power axes, to match the first one/so I can combine them). So Im trying to save on them where I can.
Finished a big despoiler squad.
>>98703664Cool shit.
>>98703602Is there really much risk of confusion if its for a unit that cant take thunder hammers? I would understand if its mixed within a unit (some hammers are hammers, some hammers are mauls), but if you see some despoilers with thunder hammers then obviously they dont actually have thunder hammers (since the unit cant take them)
>>98703664what's the source of those chainaxes?
>>98703760aren't those the mkii assault squad axes?
>>98703765Not the new ones, no. They look more like the old terminator ones.
>>98703750It's poor etiquette, and will often make people suspicious of you being a cheater. Also the despoiler sergeant can take a thunder hammer.
>>98699540Remove any power weapon options and they are fine. If not their only weakness (save 3+) is completely negated by striking first anyway. Not having jump pack makes them far more survivable.
>>98703821>Not having jump pack makes them far more survivable.Thats... the opposite of how that goes. Not having a jump pack means theyre significantly less mobile and likely to get the charge off/manage to evade fire from enemy units.
>>98703821>If not their only weakness (save 3+) is completely negated by striking first anywaythere are several units in game currently which show that this isnt true (dark furies, night raptors - to a lesser extent rampagers - all of them are fragile as fuck despite "going first")going at a good initiative can compensate but it doesent negate fundamentally low durability (which is what 3+ with no further saves is in the context of melee vs elites)and then theres being shot, where 3+ saves are significantly worse than 2+ saves, both vs Ap- shooting and because theres a lot of relevant Ap3 shooting.
>>98703870Few months early, ol nicky
>buddy with a BA contemptor tried jumping on a building and immobilized itself t1>later on his melta moritat dropped down and rolled double 1s on its chainfire two turns in a row>in the second game, he fails multiple fear checks with dawnbreakers and gets fucked up by a gaggle of voraxbro was not having a good day
>>98703921Sounds like 1.0?
>>98702716>they're still Command and so all can join another UnitBut don't characters join units one by one, thus making them "abandon" their previous unit, which they're forbidden from?>Officer Cadre + Primary only gives you five Command slotsJesus Christ just how many characters are you guys bringing? Some missions only have two objectives and you're telling me 5 HQ (+1 HHQ) isn't enough for you?!But indeed, I'd rather take an actual Apex (4 Myrmidons + Prime?!) than "Conditional Officer Cadre +1".>Buffing skeleton hordeThralls are specifically NOT to be buffed, as every power kills 2/3 of the entire unit (and making them explode isn't that useful or easy either).>you can go all-in on Crux and have five Arcuitors and a Malagra ArchmagosDitch the Archmagos. He slows everyone down for S+1 T+1 BS+1. Arcuitors are the same Intelligence 9 than regular Magi, they can cast Cybertheurgy just fine.
>>98703204Wizard. Do the opposite
>>98703893>and then theres being shotYes, shooting counts as "going first"
>>98704022There was a rerun of this in cinema recently, damn good movie.
>>98704004as long as they all end their move in unit coherency the Command sub-type is satisfied
>>98703973yeah a few of us do campaign days every once in a while
>>98704052>Having more than one Arcuitor in the same unitOmnissiah save us
>>98703664Fuark you made nu-mk trash look good
>>98703204Armour still looks like shit.
>>98704009
>>98704161>the future I was denies
I don't like the pickelhaube outside of Death Guard.
>>98704269You are entitled to your opinion. I like 'em, and use both helmets interchangeablly: pickelhaube for troops and less bloodied recruits, oldmkiii and some variants for veterans.
>>98704269Neither do I. But I was told the pickelhaube was there irl as an attachment point for topknots. So I suppose it's not out of place on the helmets of sarges and exalted warriors across some legions, most notably the Emperor's Children, White Scars, Space Wolves, Sons of Horus and Alpha Legion.The Death Guard, despite being most associated with pickelhaubes, doesn't strike me as a legion with top knots, which is the actual historical use for them.
>>98704386Why does the leftmost guy's pickelhaube look so... suggestive?
>>98699511I wish Nu Mk III was more like the top image, that had somewhat more style, i love their ridiculously huge chest plate, it looks so neat
>>98703760>>98703765>>98703776It's a couple random STLs I grabbed from telegram, I have no Idea who actually made them. They're smaller than the plastic MkII assault squad chainaxes, but looking at them finished I think I need to go just a bit smaller with the next squad. Gonna try bashing something together in CAD.>>98703204kino>>98704161kek
>>98704609All of GW's axes have been outrageously over-sized. It's even more jarring since the power swords that come along with them are very conservative and realistic.
>>98704682The best axe is the FW phalanx wardens power axe, it is perfection.
>>98704269Grow up, ur a man now son.
>>98704682I suppose weapons are cartoonishly big so they can be identified at a glance on a tiny 28mm figurine.But I like the idea of marine weapons being exaggerated hunks of metal that would be difficult for a mortal to even lift, let alone wield with any measure of skill.Appropriately sized weaponry would look frail on their hands. Like fighting with twigs.
>>98704707They are not that hard to spot, that is a goofy explanation. The truth is the sculptors suck and went full retard.
>>98704707There is such a thing as too much anon. Yes, Warhammer uses heroic scale to make what miniatures are and wield stand out more. But modern axes GW make are an absolutely joke, they're so cartoonishly large.
>>98704689Idk why (John French?) Phalanx Warders have axes. Fists are famous for using, well, fists, as well as hammers. And shield wall formations use spears and short swords.
>>98704723>>98704727Axes you can play tenis with. Swords wide enough to row with.
>>98704747The new standard power sword is so small it's almost a rapier though
>>98703800>being a cheaterPlease tell me this is b8. Cheater? Like, with loaded dice? Using a trainer or a turbo button? How the fuck can you be a "cheater" in tabletop?This is why I dont play the actual game, it just doesnt seem fun in any real way.
>>98704730They kept the theme of taking inspiration from historical troops going, warders are sappers right down to their logo which makes sense since in-setting they are vet breachers.
>>98704816And here is their icon on their shoulder pads.
>>98703850Ite mans you board in a rhino and don't get wiped off the board as a high priority soft target.
>>98704796There are people who purposefully obfuscate what weapon their models have with proxies, so they can claim a model has the more expensive/more efficient weapon despite not having paid the points for it. People used to do something similar with transport vehicles, GW had to codify it in the rules that people have to declare which unit is in which transport before the game starts. There were that many people who conveniently always had the most optimal unit come charging out of the most forward placed transport, and every transport that got destroyed always happened to have nothing but a tactical squad inside.
>>98704816>>98704838Sappers is a very cool concept, thanks anon. I'm baffled that nobody thought of crossed axes as an emblem all the way until the XVIIIth century?
>>98699540>I want broken ws5 thunder hammer and lightning claw infantry striking faster than everyone else.Just ally custodes and proxy them.
Played Ligma for the first time. Just two objectives, unbound, some titans and tanks on both sides, not a lot of infantry. Some takeaways:>Need a lot of large LOS blockers or its just Warlords on first fire all game.Fortunately we had one big center that mattered.>Warhound packs are a rules blackbox for new players. Sharing voids? If one is injured? cover?The more you stare the worse it gets. We just separated them into individual for the learning.>CAF really mattersPleasant surprise>Pairing off an outnumbering you really need to multibase if you can or you might get caught unengaged with casualties.If you charge something, and it lives and is now alone, does ti get to then do its original advancing fire order?>Graviton Ruinators are hilarious and turbo delete buildings.Otherwise it was fun. Would play again.
>>98704054>>98704054>yeah a few of us do campaign days every once in a whileWHERE AND WHEN ???
>>98704926>>I want broken ws5 thunder hammer and lightning claw infantry striking faster than everyone else.
>>98704864It also means you need to pay the extra 70~pts for a rhino. Which is not very hard to kill as far as vehicles go either. And that "durability" also goes away when you actually have to disembark and do something (which is risky, since its a disordered charge). Rhinos are good, innate movement is better, it lets you accomplish many of the same things (get to combat without dying) easier and more reliably. What a rhino does by protecting you from being shot a jump pack squad does by simply not being in line of sight to be shot.
>>98704926do people just not play against night lords and know what they do?
>>98704707>I suppose weapons are cartoonishly big so they can be identified at a glance on a tiny 28mm figurine.Correct. This goes for most features (barrel sizes for example). In a very real sense you can apply RTS logic to miniatures, features tend towards the exxagerated because thats what reads better when youre looking at something small very far away. You can obviously tell that a "normal size" dude is holding an axe in a historical game, but the details on the axe (if there are any) are probably going to be quite minimal from where youre usually standing.
>>98704723>They are not that hard to spotSpot? No.Spot details on? Yes. There is a reason RTS units have big shoulder pads and helmets, there is a reason miniature wargame weapons (or video game weapons) tend to be too large and somewhat cartoonish. Sure, a part of that could be "artists arent hemafags" but another part is "visual redability is important"Historical miniatures are (in many cases) perfectly fine miniatures, theyre good at what theyre trying to be. But theyre simply less immediately redable than the more emphasized features of warhammer or (especially) something like warmahordes. Can you tell if the guy in the bottom left has an axe or a hammer from a quick glance? Not really? Now imagine trying to tell that when hes a couple of feed away on a table.
>>98704723>that is a goofy explanationYet it is the truth.
>>98705684>Can you tell if the guy in the bottom leftBottom right/their bottom left;. Fuck its late.
>>98705348Also you get 3 extra bases per infantry box. DO they expect you to use the spare sarge models and alts to make more bases? Or 4 termis/jump to a bse with sarge, and 5 regular on the other thus making 1 extra stand? 5 tac bodies per base looks fine but 5 termis or assualt marines per base is ultra cluttered looking.
>>98705749People often do 3-4 marines per base for command and 4 per base for termis and JPI. I've also seen people put extra bolter guys in the back of plasma/missile bases to stretch them out.
>>98705692No.
>>98704730Axes are good at hacking and smashing stuff, it makes sense to me. Good luck trying to breach a shield or door with a sword.
>>98705684I suppose I underestimate how poor eyesight people have, I have eyes like a hawk and ears like a fox.
>>98706581Highly doubt that many people are blind, almost never heard somebody ask what a model is holding over many years of playing warhammer.
>>98706660Yes I agree, I think the big weapons so people can see is cope.
>>98704682the BA axe is pretty reasonable.
>>98698922Siege Breakers should be able to join units with Bitter Duty.Change my mind
>>98704896I'd bet you there's at least one knight's heraldry that did it before hand
>>98707205You haven't said why, to begin with. So no.
>>98707214It should be obvious anon.The guy who carries Phosphex Bombs and unlocks it for your artillery fits right in with Destroyers thematically
>>98707221You think Destroyers get Bitter Duty from their single optional phosphex bomb?
>>98707221You think Moritats get bitter Duty from their absence of phosphex bombs?
>>98707251>>98707257>Samefagging to intentionally miss the pointHe gives access to the exact war crime weapons Destroyers use, retard
foolish samurai attempt at an fdm tank for hh, though truth be told i'm near to overjoyed with it, pretty impressed. f a t bitch.finishing the pertinent surfaces with sandpaper will be a wild rideprobably took the better part of half a week on end of solid print timeseekermobile though fr
>>98707275Oh it is me, I just pressed post too early. Sorry about that.Destroyers use Rad grenades, Rad missiles, disintegrators. And a single phosphex bomb. It reads like that Christmas carol lol.What I wish Siege Breakers had is the option to swap their hammer for a heavy weapon - I grew used to them buffing HSS.Though the end of a siege, wouldn't that mean he would also join a linebreaker unit like Terminators or Breachers? So he could also make hood use of a breaching shield.Bitter duty gets in the way of all of that.
>>98707299I'd forgotten it got FAQ'd to stop allowing characters with it to join non-Bitter Duty squads (despite the 2.0 FAQ explicitly saying them doing so was intended).Could just give him the option to buy it for free, like how Ad Mech get the option to give Heterodox tech priests Malefic so they can choose whether they're able to join those units or not
>>98707308I guess, though besides Destroyers who's got Bitter Duty? Maybe some legion specifics (IG & WB)?Now more than ever does the Siege Breakers behave like a Master of the Arsenal (which Armistos started out as).
>>98707333Mostly just legion specific destroyers and shit like the WB daemon apothecaries (which means they can't be joined by the exact characters they're meant to buff)
>>98707338Sure I'd let you. Games are for having fun yee
>play tzeentch vs word bearers in ZM>almost all of the units are malefic so no one is getting statuses>didn't have to worry about any gay challenges>don't have to measure 3" line of sight all the timeactually had a fun game of 3.0
>>98706983Not on a manlet, it would look fine on a primaris sized marine tho.
>>987072833d printing is wild.
>>98707399>Sure I'd let you. Games are for having fun yee
>>98705566Those cannot be safely put in a rhino. You need to lend raider them or they get shot off the board.
>bought the Astartes Shotguns for IW Inductii>it comes with a bunch of combi-weapons tooIf I made a squad of Veteran Tacticals out of these upgrades, is the play to pay for all ten combi weapons? I can’t think of a reason otherwise.
>>98707283Glad for you, cool tank.Must say though, the background reminds me of a couch my grandma had and it leads me to my question; how did you suspend this in piss? What are you drinking?!??!
>>98698922
do anons think the isolated symbols on the right would look ok as transfers or do I have to painstakingly touch up the black outline pixel by pixel like I did the yellow? even before I cut out the symbols and had to retouch the yellow I needed to clean it up as the versions of the symbol online have it the colours scuffed and faded.
>>98707565The nu combis are so ugly you pay for ugly.
>>98704609Share STLs please?
>>98707901nvm. I fixed them. I make the original image way way bigger, rastarised (wagwan) it then redid the cutting out. After some touchups and shrinking it back down to the original size its looking good enough for my needs. In the unlikely event any anons ITT play audax, I gift this to you: Audax legio symbols that don't look like complete dogshit. I have just the cutout of the wolf head isolated if anons need it.
>>98707477First of all: You cant put anti-grav troops in any non flying transportSecond: you do not need to put anti-grav troops in a transport because theyre fast enough to simply avoid LoS via terrain. Third: rhinos are really easy to kill (once you use actual AT weapons), a unit in a rhino is not somehow immune to firepower if it is a priority threat. You are confusing "this keeps a tactical squad from being casually removed by blast weapons/chunked by small arms" with "this will protect a veteran squad from royal buggery"
>>98708011Oh, and also:Fourth: rhinos are not actually very good delivery mechanisms for melee elites. Theyre much better than walking, but the rhino rush is unreliable and easily shut down with a movement reaction (because it is a disordered charge), and leaves a unit exposed and vulnerable if/when it failsJump units do not have quite as long a literal movement (17" (12 move + 5 setup) vs 19" (12 rhino, 7" disembark), but the very fact that they have a setup move lets them be a lot more reliable and proactive with their engagements.
>>98707417>>didn't have to worry about any gay challengesSomeone was playing tzeench wrong then. They live for challenges where they can invoke the power of their jojo stand.
I will never forgive them for killing 99% of legion flavor with 3.0
>>98708003Isn't that wolf a fotball team logo or some kind of sports time
>>98708072Same.
>>98708072Define flavour please
>>98708210Flavour is when the rules make my favourite legion better than your favourite legion.
>>98708072I disagree with this assessment. I think the flavor is still very much there, its just presented through fundamental rules interactions rather than overt "these are the bestest combat guys so they get +1 to hit"
>>98708522I think there is a lot more flavor in the core mechanics of the game. Because of this, some Legion flavor has been lost. I also think the scenarios, particularly the end of turn scoring and four turn limit, have really hurt the game.
>>98708550I on the whole prefer the modern scoring, but I think its not quite perfect and could use some tweaking. Make it start of turn, it improves so much imo
>>98708558Start of turn scoring would make tactical squads and despoilers pointless. There is no possible way to keep a tactical squad out in the open alive through an entire enemy turn.
>>98708589>There is no possible way to keep a tactical squad out in the open alive through an entire enemy turn.Y'all truly need more terrain
>>98708597Terrain doesn't stop assault veterans from jumping over it and charge whatever dared to leave your deployment zone in turn 1.
>>98708589That has not been my experience with the game. But yes, it would make scoring a lot more dangerous, which means that just rushing to claim objecitves ASAP remains possible but not necessarily optimal in all cases. Which I think would be healthier.
>>98708589>>98708597it would mean they score home objectives turn 1, but that's no better than neither side's line surviving the turn to score - it's still parity, it just has a different number attached to it>>98708210BITTER IRONI really should see a doctor
>>98708611There are no home objectives with the relic hunt missions, which is the only thing people at the LGS play now those missions fix most issues Objective rushing is easily countered in a number of ways, don't understand how so many people still haven't figured this out yet. But then again most HH players still seem convinced that the spartan party bus with terminator death star is an unbeatable strategy.
>>98708639Its not about whether it can be countered, its about the play patters it encourages.
>>98708644It encourages leaving your deployment zone and play for board control. Objective rushing only works if both players are still trying to mostly use the old strategy of cowering in their deployment zone, try to kill everything with long range shooting, and only have one or two AV 14 transports move forward aggressively. And even then I've still seen too many idiots trying to play their spartans and land raiders like a gun line unit
>>98708668>It encourages leaving your deployment zone and play for board control.Sort of. The current system doesent actually require "controlling" the objective, only temporarily getting it. So you often end up with this silly back and forth of "I score it on my turn, you score it on your turn, I score it on my turn"
>>98705749>>98705786I use spares to make pseudo centurions and 2-3 bodyguards. I swapped the sword for an axe on the praetor and put him and two hammer termis on a base as a fake Warmonger. I just use him as a normal termi base.
>>98708720But you do need to play for controlling objectives. There is no back and forth when you have a tougher unit block access to the objective, and other units apply pressure elsewhere so the opponent can't freely focus down that tough unit without suffering severe consequences. Also, the movement phase is before the shooting phase, if a unit is in the way and stops a tactical squad from getting to objective range you can't use shooting or melee to get them out of the way yet. Claiming objectives is how you get VP, denying your opponent acces to objectives is how you stop them from having a chance to win. It can even be beneficial to concede one objective to the opponent if that means you secure exclusive access to the other objectives for the rest of the game. There is so much more to objectives than rushing on to them, only to instantly run away to let the enemy have their turn.
Why are people stuck on the objective plantation? Can't we just fight to the death? I don't want to stand on the circle, the only objective we need is killing each other.
>>98708861No angron, I'm not going to sit in the middle of the board getting butchered by you, eat suit.
>>98708861The objectives represent the ground we have to fight to the death over anon. Without it, most people immediately resort back to killing you from as far away as possible, and running away whenever something gets close.
>>98708861>>98708899Split the difference, you have to destroy units within 12" of objectives. Extra points if both sides were in range.
>>98708911Way too much distance. 12" radius means 24" zone to kill something, unacceptable.
>>98708023it'll happen once and then your opponents will do everything in their power to make sure you never get to use that gambit again
>>98708927Sounds like quitter talk
>>98708991>I want to be able to have 24" distance between my units and the enemyCoward.
>>98708899>>98709008How about you shoot something on the way to stab it?
>>98708668>idiots trying to play their spartans and land raiders like a gun line unit6 to 10 lascannons barrels used to mean something, god damnit!
>>98709094And it does, but consider this: A predator has 4 lascannons for half (if not less) the cost of a land raider and its 6. Its not that lascannons are worthless, they wont kill AV14 well but theyre still generally good, its that land raiders are a bad way to bring lascannons because you pay so much on top of that for durability and transport capacity.
>>98709100Wish James would stop being a coward.
>>98708597And more aggressive units to force a choice. A solo tac alone with no support or other targets is just asking to evaporate.
>>98709100It's not that LRs are a good way of bringing lascannons. It is that, on the purchase of an AV14 terminator-capable transport, you get half a dozen lascannon. You bet I'm going to aim them at things. It's a multi purpose vehicle.
>>98709154Sure, but my point is that those "tacked on extra lascannons" are not really something that is enough to be very significant, especially since youre moving.
>>98709165It used to be that vehicles had a range of speeds (static, combat, cruise), and at full speed they could only fire one gun at full BS. But Land Raiders machine spirit allowed it to fire one more gun at full BS, thus rendering it able to fire both twin lascannons at full speed.Now it's a boolean - Move or Stationary. This is what Shrimplification takes away from us. This is flavor, gone.As for the current state of things, they'll reach the enemy at some point. That's when their lascannons become powerful enough to kill a MIGHTY RHINO.How can anyone like this edition?
>>98709251>it used to beIt used to be that lascannons were all you needed for anti-tank and like 4 of them was enough to kill anything in one volley. Thankfully this is no longer the case.
>>98709251Yes, it used to be that land raiders didnt care about whether they moved or not. And were even more braindead.
>>98709263All they needed to do was to make the Explodes result deal +1d3 extra hull points instead of instantly deleting the vehicle. I played with sunderless lascannons (houserule) and it was perfect.
>>98709295>All they needed to do was to make the Explodes result deal +1d3 extra hull points instead of instantly deleting the vehicle.And it would do fuck all, because vehicles had like 3/4HP anyways and would just die from HP loss before they blew up. Tanks (and lascannons) were dogshit in 2e for different reasons, and the fixes to them were both necessary and generally good.
>>98709251>Flavour is units I like being able to do everything without limitations or resctrictionsYou should try 40k, that game is right up your alley.
>>98709305I don't have the crayons or the patience to explain the limitations imposed by the vehicle speed system, anon. You do you.
>>98709301>And it would do fuck all, because vehicles had like 3/4HP anyways and would just die from HP loss before they blew up.Yes! Vehicles SHOULD be hurt by penetrating hits. The 1d3 change would have only protected big stuff like Lands Raider, Kratos and the like.So what if a Rhino explodes after being penetrated by a lascannon? IT'S A RHINO, lightest of the light. I saw it shrug off (sunderless) lascannons and we were amazed at its luck.Now it absorbs lascannon fire and we are amazed at how pointless they are.>(and lascannons) were dogshit in 2eLascannons were the metric all ranged weapons were compared to. They were the opposite of shit.
>>98709332>I don't have the crayons or the patience to explain the limitations imposed by the vehicle speed systemNone. Because the only vehicles people used were the ones that ignored it.
>>98709375>Yes! Vehicles SHOULD be hurt by penetrating hitsWhich they are. >The 1d3 change would have only protected big stuff like Lands Raider, Kratos and the like.Insufficiently, and without addressing the actual issues. Its a retarded bandaid that would accomplish nothing. The issue was not "oh a lucky hit can do like 3HP extra and kill a vehicle". The issue was that spammable weapons were good enough to easily kill vehicles without needing an explosion - and that the damage that wouldnt kill a vehicle would render it impotent anyways. >Lascannons were the metric all ranged weapons were compared to.Yes, and that makes them dogshit design. Keep up. Overpowered is still bad.
realistically how are daemons meant to deal with vehicles when their heaviest units can only get to around S8?
>>98709402They were op because they were unnecessarily given sunder. I can testify: without Sunder we had no problem with it.The three bad things about lascannons were:1. Sunder.2. Too cheap for their stats made them spammable. First edition prices were expensive enough.3. A lucky hit could explode your expensive Land Raider. It could also explode a Rhino, but nobody was surprised by that.
>>98709466They aren't a true faction - they're there only to be defeated by marines, the game's true protagonists.
>>98709466Strength 8 is sufficient to deal with all vehicles that aren't AV 14 on all sides. And AV 14 vehicles can just be ignored as you bury everything else under waves of daemons.
>>98709563Aren't demon waves especially vulnerable to the Kratos' 5" AP4 gun?
>>98709569No, because all daemons have an invulnerable save. Also every single marinefag only ever uses the melta cannon on the kratos, because that's what internet hyperbole told them to do.
>>98709563one of the gripes I have with 3.0 is that the answer to a lot of problems seems to be to just ignore them
>>98709548>They were op because they were unnecessarily given sunderThey were OP because they were cheap, spammable, and "good enough" which is what the old system encouraged and rewarded. Because the old vehicle damage system was bad.
>>98709662Basically: the lack of damage and the low HP numbers meant that (even outside of explodes, which was possible but not really a big factor - 1/6 chance for an Ap2 pen) you simply wanted a lot of glancing + hits rather than one good big pen. Which means that things like "a vindicator" become terrible anti tank, because a battle cannon will - over the course of the entire game - just about kill a rhino or something because it fires 1/turn. This also meant that a lot of anti tank weapons got weirdly high rates of fire (magna melta cannons on the predator), and the ones that didnt had not much place for them (whats the point of one big S18 hit when it does the same damage as a S8 melta)
Question what do i need to play 1.0? the 2016 army lists, 2017 rulebook and 2019, right? What about additional units, did james ever release something like a special units compilation before 2.0?
>>98709738>and 2019 meant 2019 errata
>>98709738The black books had units added as they went on. Im sure theres a compilation somewhere online.
>>98709466Ignore them, basically. Or biomancy slam in melee (not great, but can work). >>98709577The melta cannon sees more use because it is more generally useful. The Battle cannon does not do well against a lot of the more common factions and situations, so you see it less.
>>98709793Basically: A lot of people (somewhat rightfully) feel it is "bad manners" to tailor lists against armies (or are limited by collection), which means if you play a niche army (like demons) you arent likely to run into your dedicated counters as much as things that are great vs the more usual armies but less good against you. Because "oh, im playing trevor and he has infantry heavy militia, I should load up on Ap5 blasts" is seen as rude by most civilized people.
>>98709641I mean it was also true in 2e. See: terminator deathstars, to which the answer was simply "dont engage them". Thats just a weakness of a particular unit type, to which things like the kratos can belong (big, slow, expensive units).
>>98709835you still interacted with death stars by just bogging them down with things that slow their movement (phosphex, grav, pinning)
>>98709906What about simply staying out of their reach and denying them good charges? Besides, most of them were immune to pinning (or functionally immune). 2e was the edition of the LD10 stubborn unbreakable deathblob.
>>98709912
>>98710026That power was good, yes.
>>98709912Land Raiders and Spartans were Reinforced subtype, but they could still be immobilized. Even if it didn't pin Stubborn terminators, graviton weapons still left them in a puddle of difficult terrain of -2" move, and good luck waddling anywhere on effectively M4"Now those vehicles got Autorepair 4+, I think?
>>98709738I think the latest compilation was the Legion Army Red Book. Chaplains caused Fear in that one, of top of having Zealot or whatever Hatred Everything was called back then
>>98705684It's because most sculptors can't sculpt so everything has cartoony features. And historical wargames usually don't care about the weapons used by individually soldiers since you model entire units.
am I going schizo or is there a push to make salamanders this sickly, neon green as of late?
>>98710406No idea, what colour were they before, like Dark Angles in w40k ?
>>98710406There hasn't been any push for anything because no one cares about salamanders
>>98710423half of marine players are salamanders now that they have the best legion traitsame with fists in 2.0, same with TSons in 1.0
>>98710406GW artists and official mini painters made Sallies bright green years ago, anon. Have you been in stasis?They probably though their old green was too dark and easily confused with Raptors or HH SoH.
>>98710428>half of marine players are salamanders nowFucking where? There's still only one single salamander player in the local area here.
>>98710406>as of late
>>98710406Welcome to Warhammer, newfag.
>>987102945+, 4+ is for the admech ones. And thats a single roll at the end of the turn.
>>98710406I think I see what you mean
>>98710481>>98710503>>98710527none of these are neon
>>98710851Random people painting their salamanders neon green doesn't mean there's a push for it, retard-sama.
>>98710868it's being pushed by somebodyjust like how those orange imperial fists were pushed after a thousand people online convinced themselves that a pink basecoat looked good under yellow
>>98710406The color plates always depicted them as more of an olive drab than a really saturated bright green, but even the official FW paintjobs were a pretty saturated green, just look at the official paintjob for pyroclasts and vulkan. I think they just wanted to make them a bit more distinct than SoH.
>>98710887I think they touched up the photos currently on the webstore because there's archived photos of them being quite dark
>>98710883You're reading way too much into this. Some people apparently like their salamanders neon green, there's not some ulterior motive behind it. Maybe you should take a brake from visiting /pol/ anon, your paranoia is off the charts.
I painted mine closer to OD Green.
>>98711006I dislike the number of land raiders, but I commend you running power armor in land raiders.
>>98710415
>>98711006Not enough land raiders
>>98698922How do reaver titan weapons compare size wise to the falchion?
>>98711006I believe this is an adequate amount of land raiders.
>>98711301At least theyre not spartans
>>98711120>Ten bucks says you can't hit that guy next to the Rhino
>>98711974>"What the fuck is a 'buck'?"
>>98709577>>98709793To be fair, I cannot blame marine players equipping their Kratos tanks with melta cannons. Like, imagine paying for 300+ pts of tank and having it do GEQ cleanup duty with its AP4 battlecannon. Yikes.But such is AP in an all-or-nothing system. I sure would like to see a pie chart>Despite being only 13% of gun profiles, AP3 Breaching 5+ account for half the successful wounds...
>>98712001>Terran horned quadruped. We got those at home too
>>98712097>What do I do with 10 of those? This game is stupid.
In terms of homebrewing rules where formations take permanent losses in a campaign and need requisition points to reinforce.What if any debuff would you give a unit that broke and retreated off the battlefield. I can't think of anything and I'm not even sure it's a good idea I mean mandem be regrouping after a battle.I thought about it affecting deployment but putting them in reserve seems a bit harsh. Deploy at table edge only?
>>98712508Read Horus heresy black book 4. It's got campaign rules for exactly that scenario. Nobody played it.
>>98712616>>98712616>>98712616
>>98712089>YikesIts only like 260 with a battlecannon base. The cost only goes high when you spend 40 for a melta, 40 more for lascannons, 40 on a decurion... etc.I have a feeling the "naked" kratos could actually be a very efficient pick vs militia for the most part, the issue is just that thats not a common matchup.
