No, I'm not talking about sci-fantasy (I say this for anyone that wanted to mention 40k), just pure scifi.
Unironically Star Trek.
which cliche? Anyways gundam.
>>98746007HelldiversHaloEarth Defense Force
>>98746007Dune, Fremen and Sarduakar are basically the super soldiers of the setting, they commit war crimes pretty openly, but it isnt ignored or glorified. Long term results in the genetically enhanced army of battle mommies aka fishspeakers.
>>98746025>>98746042>Star Trek>Halo>both ugly armors with no details or shitty details>both soldiers (cucks), aka no warriors (heroes) (at least the human factions)>both have shitty rewards for war (again, at the least the humans)>constantly accused of warcrimes (again, the humans)>women are a pain in the ass>Helldivers>EDF>both ugly armors with no details or shitty details>both soldiers (cucks), aka no warriors (heroes)>both have shitty rewards for warAt least they are not constantly accused of warcrimes (because bugs have no rights).
>>98746042>HelldiversBro you come out of a pod with a 2.5 minute life expectancy and crew combat vehicles that can be penetrated with small arms fire. The last major order was hunting for "rebels" on a hive world with no human infrastructure. Probably for the best too, because that city you 380'd? when you did the tutorial you signed up for you and your descendents to pay out of pocket for the cost of the infrastructure you destroyed
>>98746007being a soldier implies being a cuck, its synonymous. being a warrior is a way of life that will either end in your death or total victory, being a soldier is a short term career choice before you go back to doordash or harvesting wheat, living off welfare, etc.
>>98746157I know, that's why I did the meme, my point is "where the SCIFI WARRIOR"?The ONLY one that comes to my mind is the Yautja, and right now Disney wants to cuck him too.
>>98746007>just pure scifiReal sci-fi has never been tried.
>>98746053I'm pretty sure both the Fremen and the Sardaukar constantly subjugated and nullified (cucked), first by the Bene Gesserit and, later, by the God-Emperor.Also, for what I see with both, OG artwork and later iterations, the armors are very ugly.
>>98746208Can you elaborate on that?
>>98746157>>98746188>being a soldier is a short term career choice before you go back to doordash or harvesting wheat, living off welfare, etc.It isn't necessarily. The only reason it seems like a short term career choice is because the US military forces every enlisted onto the command track once they hit E-4. Some soldiers are not suited for leadership roles and after becoming a Specialist their career grinds to a halt so they end up opting out rather than reenlisting. Adding a skill based Technical or Specialist promotion track to parallel the Command track and you will see a lot more soldiers staying in to complete their 20 years as enlisted or serving in the reserves.
warhammer is both at the same time>imperial guard are cuck soldiers>marines are warriors
>>98746364>the US military forces every enlisted onto the command track once they hit E-4.E-4 is different from O-1 and even if you join with a degree as an E4 specialist instead of E1 without a degree, they try to cuck you and make it difficult to get into O-1..
>>98746384>OP>I'm not talking about sci-fantasy (I say this for anyone that wanted to mention 40k)>>imperial guard are cuck soldiersNo, lol.
>>98746007My current setting has Captains, most of humanity lives on massive ships and is run by the military.Lots of nice hats and duelling swords going around.
>>98746007It's just realistic and sci-fi strives for speculative realism.
>>98746421>Kino setting>ugly picrel
>>98746188>"where the SCIFI WARRIOR"?Ever heard of Jedi, nerd?
>>98746395>join with a degree as an E4 specialistlmfao imagine enlisting with a degree instead of just going to officer school. now THAT's cucked.
>>98746440Lol, lmao even.
>>98746435Picked at random from my grab bag of refs for randos. Body gloves and face masks are both major cultural touchstones in setting because those big ships I mentioned were falling apart by the time mankind got to its current location.Sure they're safe now, but it's imprinted on human culture by this point that wearing safety gear is perfectly normal.My players have actually picked up on the fact that rank tells you a lot about the person since the game started. Which I'm pleased by.
>>98746007Warriors are generally btfo by organised state armies. The feudal nobility you're wanking were prominent because that was the most effective organisation Europe could pull off at the time and even then they looked back in awe at Rome (which during its expansive phase relied on massed soldiers).>>98746430 is the case for any advanced society. The Yautja >>98746188 are literal ooga-boogas who got uplifted yet persist in LARPing their old ways are an exception that prove this rule.
>>98746228Trying to separate "proper" sci-fi from science fantasy leads to little more than a pointless purity spiral.
>>98746476>Warriors are generally btfo by organised state armies. The feudal nobilityAnon, I was trying to show how dirty scifi soldiers are portrayed in most settings, I was not implying that solo warriors could defeat armies (unless, they're demig-gods or the GM / writer gives him the power of plot armor).
>>98746490I see it as this>sci-fantasy, there are things that mankind still don't understand nor can't theorize about>scifi, mankind has advanced enough to, if not fully understand and use, at least theorize what is / its origins / how it can be use the "mysterious thing, phenomena, tech", etc.
>>98746468Interesting, is your game original or is it based in an already universe?
>>98746497sci-fi is a speculative extension of today's word. soldiers are low social value pieces of human shit today, so it only makes sense that trend continues. a lot of sci-fi writers are also military veterans, so are working through their neuroses about the lack of respect they receive via their fiction.
>>98746497Solo warriors inherently have a place in fantasy. You have to squeeze them in more in SF making >>98746440 a good example. If you want to avoid >>98746452 and focus on motive more than "not playing by the same rules" then do pre-Ruusan reform knights. They were basically a militant theocracy at that point.Incidentally I do have a caste of inverted Jedi operating amid more regular SF units in my setting. The dudes have an almost mind control element to them that enforced adherence to the unwritten rules of champion combat, still a specialised asset seizer / collateral damage limiter / infiltrator role that'd get mowed down by massed fire but operating on another level to the average grunt.>>98746527This. Capital becomes more important in modern warfare, the resources poured into a fighter pilot's training makes them the "warriors" if anyone, infantry are so much disposable meat in comparison.
>>98746519Original setting.Know what, let me get the moral axioms that I created to describe human culture in the setting to my players as part of the setting guide:>**Civilisation is the network of obligations** that keeps people alive when no individual can survive alone.>**Continuity is virtuous.** Preserve the ship, knowledge, community, lineage, equipment and institutions that others will need after you.>**Waste is immoral.** Waste isn't just inefficient. Every wasted resource is something someone else may later need to survive.>**Office creates obligation.** A Captain, Warden, doctor, engineer or Citizen isn't merely someone entitled to privileges; accepting the role gives other people legitimate claims upon them.>**Authority follows burden.** Someone may possess extraordinary power if they genuinely bear extraordinary responsibility. Authority without responsibility is illegitimate.>**Shared danger limits private choice.** Your body, possessions and decisions are yours until their consequences become part of everybody else's survival system.>**Abandonment is among the worst moral failures.** Violence may sometimes be justified. Leaving people for whom you are responsible is much harder to excuse.>**A freely accepted obligation is sacred.** Vows matters because by voluntarily binding yourself, you turn another person's uncertainty into something they can safely rely upon.A Captain in setting isn't just a military figure or a leader, they're the final arbiter of all decisions, the place where the buck stops and who can call on no higher authority to justify the choices they made.Civilization as a whole is split into ROCs (Ranked Officers & Commissions) who are crew of a ship and NODs (Non-Officer designations) who are passengers.It's honestly such a fun setting to play in, doing a setting where the morality is at a complete right angle to modern morality is always interesting and this one has worked out particularly well so far.
>>98746527>sci-fi is a speculative extension of today's word.That explains why I dislike current scifi, the stories I wrote when I was 6 yo where way cooler.But even in the 60s and 70s, when anti-militarism was not as high as today, soldiers were still getting mock.>a lot of sci-fi writers are also military veterans, so are working through their neuroses about the lack of respect they receive via their fiction.I think you can have an anti-war story that at the same time it's also cool. At least, for me both things are not contradictory.>>98746554>SF makingWhat does it means?>pre-Ruusan reform knights. They were basically a militant theocracy at that point.Someday, we will have to address the elephant in the room: only the most mediocre stories make it to the big screen, while the truly interesting ones never manage to break out of the comic books and novels where they originated.>caste of inverted Jedi >inverted??>mowed down by massed fire but operating on another level to the average grunt.Cool, but at some point I think tech will become the great equalizer, as Syndrome exposed in The Incredibles. Which was also the goal of Darth Tenebrous (one of the coolest Sith ever), who believed tech will make the Force obsolete and will create an infinite Golden Age for the Galaxy.
>>98746395There are 3 command tracks in the US military:>Officers (Hard to go green to gold and slots are limited)>Warrant Officers (easier if you are non-combat but fewer slots)>Non-commissioned Officers (most slots)At E-4 a US soldier is forced to either jump onto one of those tracks, stall out or give up and leave the military.>>98746554>This. Capital becomes more important in modern warfare, the resources poured into a fighter pilot's training makes them the "warriors" if anyone, infantry are so much disposable meat in comparison.Massive amounts of money are still put into their training and significant amounts are handed out for reenlisting. Many soldiers don't reenlist because they see no real reason to grow any further once they hit E-4.
>>98746734>60s and 70s, when anti-militarism was not as high as todaywhat the fuck are you talking about that was the peak of anti-militarism
>>98746577Sounds pretty cool, anon, congrats. But why the division between military and civilians (passengers), I think all society should be militarized.Also, from which setting is picrel (looks like it's from Starcraft)? Because that is the kind of armor and weapon I hate>overdesign>neon dots>lines >weird formThat's why I love Silver Surfer design, it's all unified, perfected minimalism and shows the beauty of human body without the need for nudity.
>>98746753I'm not saying there was no anti-militarism, ofc it was, but I think not as high as today. Anti-militarism back then was the hippies and lefties, right now you can see anti-militarism all over the political spectrum.
Every thread about scifi deteriorates into people talking about how much they hate scifi.
>>98746773>Which setting is that image fromNo idea, I used it for the leader of a group called the 'Terran Reciprocals' who are a terrorist organization that believe in silly, old fashioned ideas like 'Rules of War' and 'The Geneva Convention' (Or at least the setting equivalent)Which they try to bring about using slave soldiers, terror bombings and so on.Main reason for the division is because the great fleet the ships were originally part of was a refugee/exodus fleet. It's not that passengers are civilians as such, they're still expected to assist aboard, follow reasonable orders, ect, it's that their designation means they have no permanent place aboard the ship and can be moved to other ships at a moments notice.Which doesn't happen much any more, but mainly it means they're not permanent residents who have a role tied to the ship, meanwhile crew are in it until they get released, transferred or die.>That is the kind of armor and weapon I hateYou'd hate the aesthetics of the setting then, it's very much a mix of salvager future, OG Starcraft (Not the 2nd game, fuck that), with some Mil sci-fi mixed in. I won't hold that against you though, if we all had the same taste the world would be a very boring place.
>>98746859Sci fi has great evil within.
>>98746859>>98746952I wonder why. Perhaps it is the terrible writing of the last decades.
>>98746007Helldivers are what you get when you crossbreed marines with frat bros.
>>98746104Not when I play.
>>98747107A squad on 20 Helldivers and a Super Destroyer might legitimately be the most powerful thing you can throw at any sci-fi universe. I don't even think Space Marines would keep up,
>>98747107>crossbreed marines with frat bros.That is a standard marine when an officer isn't around.
>>98746943>It's not that passengers are civilians as such, they're still expected to assist aboard, follow reasonable orders, ectGot it.>You'd hate the aesthetics of the setting thenMy biggest problem with this kind of aesthetics is, they would make sense if mankind just has started space conquest, but when you have been centuries on it (like happens in Starcraft, Star Wars, etc) makes no sense having this kind of armors and weapons, when you already have other kinds of materials, more advanced tech and knowledge that allows you to create weapons that can destroy or rebuild entire solar systems.>the world would be a very boring place.Thanks to normies / consoomers, the world, both real and virtual, is already a boring place.But I appreciate your respect, it's hard to see, even in 4chan, people that disagree with you but you can still chill with them.
>>98747107>Helldivers>ugly armors with no details or shitty details >also, capes>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1z_GF0KAAkg
>>98746223The bene gesserit did manipulate the fremens mythology for personal gain, but as far as cucking its opposite. The Atreides used the bene gesserits hard work against them by using it to take control of the fremen and then completely subjugate the sisterhood for ten thousand years at the complete mercy of the Atreides (at this point now fremen themselves) for ten millenia.The Sarduakar also end up folded into the Atreides dynasty, this time through leto 2 willingly letting himself be cuckolded (litterally) by Farad'n Corrino, the imperial heir and leader of the sarduakar. Since despite being a god king the one power he never had was to be able to bang his sister wife. So no the cuckolding, both metaphorical and real was done by the sarduakar and fremen.As for how they look, theyre novels. Imagine them however you want, even draw some cooler outfits if you want.
>>98747079Maybe its the fact that is science fi, not entirely in a crapout anti science way (although """ scientific""" metaphysics are currently depresing) , but more in the sense that sci can directly tell you a man is easy to kill with a rocket , so he can't be a fun super jedi sigma , the oversimplificator part of science at full force.While it won't tell you how a super jedi would have a very easy time to kill where the missles are at , with just some simple powers and a competent drone , you have to figure out that puzzle yourself.>terrible writing of the last decadesI do feel like this kind of evil gets worse the more modern you get , because the more modern you get , the less people belive in genuine wonder and even fantastical like stuff being real.Somone in the 90s is way more likely to belive in this for example than a modern person. some kind of social club for real honest to god psychics , were they both try to just have fun , but also figure out how to help people or otherwise gain justified glory.I feel like someone in this very treath could somewhat spin this concept as something depresing and evil , and not only that but also belive its what will happen , with the only part making it imposible is psychics not being real.
>>98747112You play below difficulty 10?
>>98746007Battletech. If your suspension of disbelief can accept that technology somehow converged towards walkers instead of threaded vehicles and hovercraft.
>>98746007Well, there are the Necromongers from the Riddick series, who are basically a militarized death-cult that LARP as medieval warriors in an otherwise fairly generic sci-fi setting. Though they may fall under your "no 40k" stipulation, given the obviousness of the inspiration.
>>98747122Too heavy handed.
>>98746415>literally russian conscripts in space>not cuck soldiersPick one
>>98746421>>98746468Sloppa
>>98747372I just love how the Riddickverse's worldbuilding boils down to "whatever Vin Diesel thought was cool/reused from one of his D&D campaigns".
>>98746007>left is mostly shit that isn't even true about storm troopers>half the shit on the left is true about the rightProfessional warriors weren't a thing, that's a con kings talked about to get a bunch of peasants to impale themselves on pointy sticker over. Most soldiers were just peasants with long point sticks. Armor was to protect the nobility when they got their boots dirty playing war. They didn't get land or any shit for going to war. They got impaled on a pointy stick leaving their families to starve because they weren't able to collect a harvest that year. There's a serious imbalance here between how much protection you can buy using kings daughters as currency. Like, one guy can hardly protect the daughter. So what are you buying? Are they competing for her on the battlefield? Wouldn't that mean they've stabbed each other before the battle even started?
>>98746007>retarded image reinforcing that retards here don't read any fucking scifi and barely even know what star wars is
>>98747692chad approach
>>98746007Starship Troopers.
>>98747696to be fair, the peasants were dumb enough to join a war.
>>98747358Those are there too
>>98746007>make up a nonexistent cliche and then get pissy about itGod I hate modern /tg/. 4chan should've died with the sharty hack
>>98747372>given the obviousness of the inspiration....DnD?It's literally Vin Diesel's DnD campaign thrown into space. Riddick himself is a drow ranger/barbarian iirc, hence the sensitivity to light and random bouts of rage.
>>98746007Fantasy is the past idealized.Scifi is the dystopia of the present extrapolated to the future.
>>98747951Well that just proves the point doesn't it? They're hardly some noble warriors like OP said. And the storm troopers were after a paycheck in a capitalist galaxy hellscape rapidly becoming unaffordable on its slippery slope into fascism. They were told they could bully tourists on the beach, not that they'd have to fight actual experienced rebel insurgents. Of course they're not going to be super eager to die for a wrinkling emperor. He doesn't even have a cool 40k throne powered but the souls of the slain jedi. Missed PR opportunity. Typical of a politician to half ass their commitment to the bit. So really the only reality is war is a scam for the ruling class and not worth joining.
I want to say metabarons but I don't know if that clashes with "no science-fantasy"That probably throws out most settings.
>>98746734Inverted because they're not peace and love hippies. The sith-like berserkers were the majority while a few Jedi-like passion-deniers schemed against them in the background. Tech equalisation doesn't apply as much in this case because memes are the tech and they're more willing to mutilate themselves in pursuit of transhuman ascension than most. The Order 66 was self inflicted (or at least opportunistically expedited) because they're addicted to trauma and convinced that the few members of their order that'd survive would be all the more powerful for it.>>98746223Fremen armor is practical in a way that's inseparable from their core concept. The challenge of surviving Arrakis is supposed to eclipse that of the battlefield. Their still suits and desert camo represent them being at war with the planet 24/7.>>98748011It can vary but this is a strong current.
>>9874673460s and 70s had the entire "Vietnam veterans getting spat on arrival" thing. Fucking zoomers I swear.
>>98746007>Is it there any scifi that fights against my made up strawman presented in a shitposting meme format?>No, don't give me an answerretarded thread
>>98746007The issue with this picture is that you compare a generic soldier mook with a wider, more diverse and much cooler "Warrior" specification.Even Star Wars has Jedi and Siths and other fucks that count as "Warriors". Meanwhile classic fantasy will usually have typical mook soldiers that are just glorified peasants in light armor and holding spears.
>>98746007>No, I'm not talking about sci-fantasyThen why did you start with a Stormtrooper?
>>98747696What time period are you talking about here, specifically?
>>98746007Post examples of armour/costume that meets.yoyrcriteria for good (any time period). Then we can try to match it.
>>98746007It's simply the reality. Fantasy/medieval is about romanticizing the prowess and ability of an individual. Scifi more often acknowledges soldiers are just a cog, a disposable entity with the advent of guns, nukes, bombs, etc. Modern wars aren't even going to be fought with many people these days because of drones and long distance missiles.
>>98746007Ask me how I can identify this person's politics just from the image.
>>98746007>Is it there any scifi that fights against this cliche?Yeah, STAR WARS, just not the Clone War itself.
>>98746007>fantasy>based on real life armorsLmao
>>98747372
>>98746007>fantasy soldiers and guards>not commonly treated like cannon fodder as wellWhat kinda fantasy have you been reading, anon? Cultivation?
>>98746025Deep Space Nine decided conspiracy theorists who refuse to listen to doctors and take their medicine are correct about hating the military and accusing them of fascism (whilst also saying humanity and most races were now in an existential genocide war with an evil cabal of shapeshifters).The soldiers were also wearing the same standard uniforms everyone who has a job wears. So basically just doing OP's image.
>>98746007>>98752435replace the image on the right with a mandalorian and it literally fits 1-1 but people here just talk about how cringe mandalorians are
>>98746007Warriors don't make sense once war becomes industrialised it's why we stopped seeing knights in shining armour around the 17th century and started seeing professional state armies. Even as early as Agincourt trained peasants with bows beat 'warrior' knights.As others have pointed out state armies btfo warriors and the warrior caste. The smart ones stay around as officer aristocrats or start gathering power to themselves in the civil services.Unless your setting has some reason why a small amount of specialist fighters are a better solution than a trained professional army there's no reason for warriors or warrior cultures to exist beyond LARP (which could be interesting from a social exploration point of view).
OP is both a schizo AND a faggot, impressive feat!
>>98756074>Unless your setting has some reason why a small amount of specialist fighters are a better solution than a trained professional armyI mean haven't we returned to that to some extent with the modern position of combined arms, small troop groupings, special forces units doing surgical strikes, ect?It's very much its own culture.
>>98756553I'd argue maybe.I was in the army (nearly two decades ago (that's a phrase to make you feel old)), and currently work in a military adjacent field (for a different country). I'd suggest that spec ops, and smaller specialist mos/taskings could count towards that, but even then they're not a better solution to general warfare than a national army/airforce/navy what have you.Looking at more recent(ish) events, the US can send a special warfare team to 'borrow' a head of state or to kill them, or to turn off the radars, or cause some chaos somewhere. This same team isn't capable of taking and holding territory (which is something you need infantry for (and probably always will)) yes effective infantry groupings are getting smaller (and have been since the Napoleonic wars) but the training and ethos of the teams (and of the various special warfare groups) is based on industrial warfare and state armies rather than warrior castes/aristocracy and their retainers.
>>98756553Special forces are not independent, that's a myth. To be effective they have the same tooth to tail ratio as combat aircraft. Intel, training, support... It takes thousands in the back for one at the front.
>>98759754You could say the same thing about the medieval warrior though.While not quite the same as the modern teeth to tail concept the knight requires significant expenditure and logistics to keep him combat effective. It's why the knight's fee developed, anglo-norman kings found it easier to toss a couple of thousand acres of land (mostly uncultivated and/or forested) at a dude rather than handle the logistics of it all themselves.
>>98746188sci-fi entails technological sophistication. technological sophistication entails reliance on an organised support structure and supply chain. an organised support structure and supply chain entails each soldier being a cog in a vast machine that uses him as it sees fit.the only way you can have a cool sci-fi warrior wandering around like conan the barbarian or whatever is if you hand-wave all the logistics involved in maintaining your complicated suit of power armour and keeping your ammo stocked up, at which point you're really just a fantasy setting in space.science fiction is fiction about futuristic settings defined by technological advancement, and one of the key implications of technological advancement is that it makes chad lone warriors obsolete in the face of virgin organised soldiers.
>>98761554> technological sophistication entails reliance on an organised support structure and supply chain.Well technology advanced to such a degree that maintaining a material printer run by an AI that can print anything is so easy and cost effective that has rendered organized support structures and supply chains outdated and worthless.
>>98761880Star Trek, The Culture... That sort of thing?
>>98761467Arguably, lone heroes have never existed, true.
>>98746007>Jerid Messa>Becomes a Titan to skip through promotions Feddie soldiers were cucked out of due to Operation Stardust>Alpha Jock military uniform>Pilots the sexiest suits with the highest tech, like the Marasai, Gabthley or Byarlant>Fucks a sucession of hot suicidal girls ready to shield him from space autists
>>98756553Small troop groupings was a response to weapons becoming more accurate and lethal, individual units are like 5-10 guys but they still fight as part of a unified thousands-strong force that to some extent is relying on sheer mass to achieve its aims. The mass is just dispersed over a much wider area so it's not immediately obvious unlike in ye olde warfare where everyone stood bunched together in a single field.
>>98746577>They're >implying female captains >women with authorityBad idea but you do you
>>98746007star wars if you look at other cultures like the mandaloriansalso there's no such thing as pure sci-fi in practice, even if it exists in theory, like star trek has even more fantasy magic than star wars does, and psychic powers are just magic too
>>98746007The Expanse, to an extent.>Generally a pretty well respected profession with high skill demands, albiet not absent to common modern military bullshit service requirements.>Sensible uniforms, clear aesthetic and functionality considerations, and espirit de corps.>Made in accordance with reasonable military theory.>Actually see deployments.>Get comparatively good lot in life going in, and coming out for all three sides (you have a job, a purpose, income and progression oppotunities), so long as you aren't fucking it up yourself.>Side with the most missiles and the best tech wins almost always. Only doesn't win if the other side pulls some truly sneaky shit (INAROOOOOS).Alternatively, Dune actually does a decent job too, with it's various worlds who's export is armed forces, ala the Saudaukar, Fremen and the like. Some might call Dune science fantasy, but they're wrong.
>>98756601I'd say that dichotomy has always been there. To take two pieces of literature, the Sharpe series and The Three Musketeers. Both deal with individual feats of derring-do, both are ultimately just numbers during big battles (it's often brushed over in adaptations but the Musketeers are at the siege of La Rochelle in the book). You can even go back to the possibly apocryphal tale of the Roman junior officer(?) executed for breaking ranks to fight a pre-battle duel against at least one enemy champion (without looking it up, I think the loser's friends tried to gank him; he still beat them fairly handily) because that age had long since passed into idealistic poetry.
>>98746007>cuck of a society that hates himWho cares if it's you who calls the shots?https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Mxa0k9AUF8
