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>>98747698
Hopefully with 6e, there'll be more 3rd Party content for the older versions of the wod games

>Find out Changeling the Lost has a Freehold in Miami detailed out that would fit perfectly in my Hunter game
>but it’s only in CtL 1e
>I’d have to learn both 1e and 2e to put it to good use
>on top of that my WiFi’s been hit with an IP temp ban???
I truly suffer the most…

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>>98747698
Personally, we always felt that Silent Hill was a good fir fot Unknown Armies 1e.
It really is a versatile lore for bridging World of Darkness to a more horror element.
You can be doing the more scarier elements in the game and Dots mean you don't have to thing so much for Percents.
It really is a shame the White Wolf & Atlas Games deal didn't go trough.
Its truly underrated.

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>>98747698
>Here's my totem animal, ST!

>>98742716
>>98742726
I don’t know… I was thinking something German. Perhaps gender neutral or feminine. I’ve just finished reading Black Clover so I’m thinking Liebe… I don’t know if I can find something better

>>98743433
Well Shark was the name I put on the character sheet long ago, as a sort of placeholder. Since he was a nameless beast prowling the sewers. Ansel/Catalina’s player looked at the sheet and started calling him Shark. Which we rped as Ansel baptizing Shark due to his teeth.

Now Shark isn’t the person he once was. In mind, body and soul. His very nature and path of enlightenment has changed. He doesn’t care about his allies anymore. He only wants war and bloodshed.

Shark used to LIVE TO EAT. Taking pleasure in tearing people apart and devouring them. Now I’m considering that he only EATS TO LIVE. People are now just fuel for more murder.

>>98747737
Just learn Lost 1e. 2nd edition isn't that much of an upgrade.

>>98747750
Based mage or dirty garou?

>>98747751
>something German.
Gretchen
Bertha
Gertrude

>>98747754
I mean it’s not like I’m even playing Changeling, I just want their setting dressing… guess there’s no harm even if I’m playing Vigil 2e.

>>98747742
Speaking as a fan of both, I wouldn't want UA to share a setting with WoD. Especially Mage.

>>98747750
You're not fooling anyone, that's a redcap.

>>98747698
>How would you run a Silent Hill type chronicle? What would be the best splat to use to stat the monsters?
In the OWoD chronical that I played in, the ST described the local Shadow as being much like Silent Hill. But it was actually in a Malifaux: Through the Breach game that we had to fight a bunch of classic SH monsters in the form of Nightmares.

>>98747767
>>98747751
I'll do you one better, Brucetrurtha

>>98747737
>>98747754
I'm on team 2e is a downgrade actually. I know it's contentious and I don't want to do the argument I've had with the other anon for the twentieth time, but I'll summarize. 1e had some balance problems, but I've never found them gamebreaking. Pledges are only busted on paper/if you have a doormat ST. The philosophy that behind the 1e Changeling template squishy, not the most powerful in a direct and sudden conflict, but with a very wide bag of tricks that a savvy Changeling can become a menace with, leaning towards trickery, clever wording and evasion. was sublime and worked well with Lost's general vibe. 2e's total redesign of their powers felt to me like throwing the baby out with the bathwater. It didn't need to be redrawn from the ground up; all it needed was a second pass to work out the kinks.

>>98747767
>>98748131
Eeeeeh… no. I’m not vibing with those names… perhaps it should be a German word rather than a name? Something that can sound cute for non-German speakers I know it’s hard with German (and optionally menacing or negative)

>>98745091
It's ultimately going to be personal preference on 1e and 2e for a lot of splats, some are more backwards compatible than others, some got minor tweaks and others got total overhauls. Vigil 2e is in a weird place. It isn't that big of a change, nor is it really controversial. But it was rushed out at the very end of CofD's life cycle, it only got a single supplement after the core, because of Paradox's soft cancellation of CofD. However, that's not the only way to play 2e HtV. Soon after it came out, Mortal Remains dropped, which was a quick rules update for HtV to be 2e compatible. So you can play 1e Vigil in 2e, or 2e HtV. It's weird.

Really the big change in the proper 2e core is that they overhauled how Hunters interact with Intergrity (Humanity equivalent). I'm ambivalent about it, my group always plays fast and loose with those systems. Some endowments got minor changes (benedictions went from on-demand instand powers to rituals), and they added some new C&Cs. Some misses, some hits. None had the time on the vine to mature with supplement books. Some very enjoyable new merits too. All and all it's fine and Mortal Remains lets you port over the stuff that didn't make it to 2e due to swedish perfidy.

So it's not necessarily a strict upgrade, but it also isn't contentious, because it's not so different it isn't compatible.

>>98748183
>hungry lad constantly
Why not something like Grendel, that one big hag in Beowulf

>>98748183
NTA but would Shark even care about a name? Maybe Frau would work, since with a last name it’d be Ms., like Ms. Shark. But by itself, it’s just “woman”. Like, I imagine a soldier trying to refer to her and going “Ah, Frau… err…?” And her coolly replying “Frau is fine.”

>>98743918
>which version of the rules is best for VtR?
Before one gets into house rules, just as a baseline, definitely 2e. The vampire template has a lot of little bells and whistles to it that do a good job of making you feel vampiric and mighty. The basic disciplines are also quite good, doesn't break from the traditional 1-5 dot sequential formula, but has few dead levels and the powers often have multiple uses and applications per dot. My table itself has a lot of house rules/tweaks (which we don't have much of a formal list for), and I made the VtM-VtR conversion in the OP originally for our use. But that's something of its own beast with intentional deviations from base Requiem in order to be a functioning hybrid.

>what's wrong with Changeling the Lost 2e?
See >>98748139. Some people like it, I genuinely hate it. They threw the baby out with the bath water, and I was very attached to Lost 1e, so the total redesign felt insulting to me. All it needed was a second pass. Back in the day I heard it had a long dev cycle with several rewrites and changing developers, but I never checked the validity of those rumors.

>which fan made CofD content do you use?
Besides my own homebrew/conversion ruleset? There's semi-official VtR books in StV by former devs, things like Clanbooks and Covenant Books. Some solid merits and devotions in there, some made it into my Conversion. A few are kind of overtuned and the art isn't the best, but they're near professional quality. Vigil is sadly bereft of good fanbooks that I've seen, I'm considering making one for StV myself.

cont.

>>98748230
>what do you recycle from oWoD in your CofD games?
Enough that I feel like my table is best described as a hybrid setting, albeit one that leans CofD. Besides the Conversion (thus porting most of VtM over entirely, with some Requiem elements added on), I think WtA has a lot of excellent antagonists, even if I'm tepid at best on the Garou. I made a quick and dirty set of rules for various Fera in WtF (not thoroughly tested as of now), I love Wyrm stuff even if it takes up too much real estate in WtA itself, and I also think the Weaver is very neat. Some pre-Fallen oWoD demon stuff winds up mixed in with Inferno too.

>what about the "splat neutral" core rules and supplements published as nWoD/CofD, are they good?
All of them? No. Most of them? Absolutely. Changing Breeds is the real stinker there, it feels like a malformed version of WtA Fera with WtF terminology. War Against the Pure has a better set of rules/examples for non-werewolf shapeshifters. Alternatively, Skinchangers is THE book for the people who want "folkloric" shapeshifters, ie people that do a magic ritual to wear the skin of an animal (including other humans). That one's really good. I also highly recommend Inferno for default Demons, and Immortals is excellent for what it is; a bunch of light minor templates for humans pulling one flavor of occult bastardry or another to extend their lives indefinitely. Lastly, Mirrors is a good read. Has interesting ideas for alternate rules and settings. I think the hidden gem is the exceptional mortals template (for statting up true mortal legends, think DaVinci), as well as Dark Heroes, who are that on crack, complete with their own supernatural potency trait, and special abilities all their own. While designed for an alternative, more fantasy heavy game, I like to use them for the rare times I need to stat mortal figures of legend, as well as era defining great men.

Oh, and it was an early and janky book, but Antagonists has some cool shit in it.

>>98747708
>Flaw: Stereotype

>>98748183
Frida (or Frieda, Freida, or Freda if you want some variations). It ironically means peace.
Rosalind
Arlett
Joslynn
Imelda

>>98748192
Mortal Remains is funny as the 2e compatible update, as it still manages to have some confusing things in it left over. For example, the Lost templates can influence the emotions of others with a contested action. The changeling rolls Manipulation + Willpower (I’ve literally never seen this as a roll before, is it your current Willpower or max Willpower? Who can say), and the target rolls Composure + Willpower (which just ends up being Resolve + Composure two times??? Weird). Just some odd stuff that works mechanically, but makes you tilt your head a little when reading them.

>>98748196
Hmmm… still feel like a miss

>>98748227
>NTA but would Shark even care about a name?

I guess not. He never did when he was a jolly beast eating people. Becoming a more detached person would matter even less.

I guess it’s a “me” thing. An additional method of differentiating Shark from who he once was. Since in essence he’s not the same person anymore (like if suddenly Power’s energetic and chaotic personality was switched to Makima’s cold and aloof personality). If an apple on a tree turned into an orange, can you still call it an apple? Even if it still is on that tree?

I want to play that new personality, but a part of me is afraid that I might lose what made Shark fun. For me. For the other players. To everyone in this thread reading this… that vulgar insanity…

>>98748262
Just for that peace joke (like Liebe meaning Love), I’m interested with Frida

>Si vis pacem, para bellum

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I don't think I am getting out of here anytime soon...

>>98747698
>How would you run a Silent Hill type chronicle?
Probably have to break up at least chunks of it into solo adventures because there's just not gonna be much for the rest of the team to do besides moral support sometimes when John Toreador gets trapped in a flashback about his guilt over how he treated his old muse or what have you.

>>98748532
Trust in the spirits and ask them to remake you, slave. It's the only way.

>>98748532
This is why we don't chip ourselves into experimental technology

>>98748532
Did Bakeslave stack another template? Is there a "trapped in cyberspace" template?

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>>98748550
The last vestiges of ego need to burn out first. I have a plan but this may take a thread or two to truly play out.
>>98748631
I stabbed a modom with a fork! I didnt think my flesh would melt all over the modom and send me into cyberspace!
>>98748693
Im honestly not sure how this arc is going to end. I have a few ideas but I kinda have to figure out what "the spirits remaking me" entails first.

Also I got the drone fight done! I just need to wrap that chapter up before I can start the changeling chapter! 2044 words currently. My writing and dialogue isnt the best so please dont judge too harshly.

>>98747698
>What is your character's (or your own) personal hell?

I unironically think that W5 is the nightmare realm of the garou as a whole with specific spite directed towards king Albrigthc as he's forced to watch the garou at they lowest. W6 would involve the garou breaking Matrix style because nostalgia is the MO of the sixth edtion.

>>98746174
That is unrelated to what a session zero is.

>v6 will have all clans in the base book
What will they sell us after that? Why not just start with the Camarilla's clans and then make a Sabbat book later.

>>98748815
Bring back future darkness!

>>98748815
I would have said bloodlines but if they're cutting goddamn Protean and merging Chimerstry with Koldun stuff there's probably no chance of them writing up the bloodlines.

>>98748815
Maybe they're not sure there will be an after, they've been in a "it's gonna be a mainstream multimedia franchise any minute now" phase for years, maybe Paradox told them if this one doesn't sell, they're pulling the plug. Or it could just be wishful thinking on my part.

>>98748815
because the og7 clans aren't the camarilla 7 anymore so if they split them by sect people are going to be mad because the og 7 aren't all playable and if they split them like the og corebook then then people can't play a full camarilla game

not that this is a big deal revised and all the dark age editions had all the clans in their corebook as well

>>98748815
anon they need this corebook to sell. the entirety of their wod6 depends on it

>>98747698
>How would you run a Silent Hill type chronicle
there is a nwod homebrew for silent hill around in one of the troves

>What is your character's (or your own) personal hell?
my current character is a demon so he doesn't get a personal hell he has to share with the rest

Dimension20 had an interesting idea for their VtM story, but I feel they didn't really commit to the tone. I want to steal it and run it for my own group. Any advice for the following things?
>Camarilla government details
>how to make a place suitable for vamp life? Like, how to gentrify a town into good human cattle? (I guess also how to make My Small Town into a town Of Darkness)
>rural life for the other splats, and Sabbat or Anarch, to have some competition

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Do you think the V6 situation may bring forth an equivalent of a Pathfinder (1e)/OGL/OSR-like situation for World/Chronicles of Darkness? I mean: people publishing urban fantasy games trying to recapture the original storytelling game of personal horror, rejecting the "official mainstream game" like people turned their backs on D&D 4th and 5th Edition to play their vision of what the first and best games were all about?

>>98748921
Curseborne already exists

>>98748921
Pathfinder, and friends, still haven't been able to catch up to their big sibling D&D. WoD is way smaller than even Pathfinder. I just don't think there are enough players interested in the franchise, but disappointed in the direction, to keep a fork game alive.

>your city's prince is old and wants to torpor
>they're setting up a whole tournament/festival to choose a replacement
Would you keep your former prince safe for centuries, or would you just immediately stake them?

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>>98748896
Kindred should sponsor the nightlife and avenues for all kinds of vice: concerts, drug trafficking, prostitution, SM and other clubs. Corrupt the morals of the kine and the city. Weaken the efforts of the police to maintain a semblance of order so its easier for bodies to disappear. Build a low trust society while the kine think it's the opposite. Encourage blood donors. Increase the divide between rich and poor. The rich need a night life too.

Consider reading:
Revised:
Guide to the Camarilla
Clanbook Ventrue
Requiem:
Damnation City
Invite Only

But first look at pic related with a straight face.

>>98748958
i actually really like the idea of circular dynasties from underworld / vtr where princes switch which each other

but i am not sure i could get it to work in vtm because there is so little reason to go into topor let alone several times

that being said what a shitty elder that can't hide their own topor spot?

>>98748977
>weaken the police
>not subjugate them so disappearances go uninvestigated
Weak police make people take the law into their own hands. You want Hunters? That's how you get Hunters.

>>98748993
>>weaken the police
>not subjugate them
Same difference. No fuel for cop cars doesn't mean you can't have a ghoul here and there.
Also you want the kine to be divided and not report things to the police at all, they must think the cops are out to get them like Floyd and the like. Remember: the bastards are the cops, not the vampires.
>Weak police make people take the law into their own hands.
But then the hands are empty because "somebody" wants gun control.
Also the Kindred should have the equivalent of a Kirchenkampf so people are adequately hopeless, faithless and powerless. People need to think all minsters are pedos and old churches should receive no money for their restoration works.

>>98748896
midnight siege and the princes primer talk about how the camarilla likes to move into a place and what a camarilla court needs to keep under control

in short: the camarilla usually use economical pressure to become the landlord of a neighborhood and start to develop the place to their liking years before any actual vampires move in and they love segregated neighborhoods like few things else and a prince is expected to control law enforcement and media

so goverment surveilance is not that much of a turn of at least on the small town level (flock would probably still be a nightmare because they are on country level) because the guy behind the screen is assumed to be a pawn or to be working for one while anything (you) and me can interact with is very bad so you know these neighborhoods where google maps wasn't allowed to map the place? those are the camarilla's favorites but in general places where "nothing ever happens" work well for camarilla places

>>98749011
If people don't report to the cops, who report to you, then how will you know what's going on in your territory? Gun control is bad for kindred because that forces people to start getting creative with wooden stakes and magic swords.

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Any fun stories about vampire kids?

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>>98749018
>If people don't report to the cops, who report to you, then how will you know what's going on in your territory?
Social media is where the actual information is shared and travels, not Karen calling 911 to inform the police she detected an African-American minding his own business. You want the boys to know where the extremists' Telegram group is, because the police will discover it long after the bullets have flown in the classroom.
This is why the vampires ought to involve themselves in the gangs and the nightlife, and know what the cops do not, so they and the rest of the citizens don't interfere.
>Gun control is bad for kindred because that forces people to start getting creative with wooden stakes and magic swords.
Why would you sharpen your sword and stake if there is no vampire?
There is no God. There is no supernatural. There is no afterlife. There is no community. There is no hope. There is no love. Better to have never been. Again it's a single ideological package and united front.

And then comes the vampire promising everything you always wanted, but were deliberately gatekept out of: fun, love, power, sex, money, knowledge, eternity.

>>98749160
>Social media
You will be put to death by the Camarilla for this violation.

>>98749160
>the extremists' Telegram group
How are you getting an invite to a Hunter's private telegram? They just won't invite you.
>This is why the vampires ought to involve themselves in the gangs and the nightlife
Yeah, and the police are basically one of these gangs. If you control them you can influence all the other gangs because they're the only ones not bound by their own masquerade of mortal laws.

>>98749148
Vampire loli (literally over 900 years old)

>>98749175
>How are you getting an invite to a Hunter's private telegram?
Because this is the World of Darkness and most if not all Hunter orgs have been compromised by the Kindred. Play your cards right the Hunters will receive your info and happily hunt your enemies among fellow vampires. Then you could be the victorious third party.
>>98749175
>If you control them you can influence all the other gangs
This depends on the city, there are those where cops are indeed the most powerful gang and even actively engage in the crime they're supposed to prevent, like directing drug trafficking.
In others, the police is weak and the common enemy of wealthy gangsters, the gangsters have their own uniforms made of tribal signs, tattoos, colors, slogans and if you're a kine, you have a problem that needs solving, and you have enough money or the right friends, you call the mob and not the cops.

You can probably tell which clan is the Prince's or Baron's depending on how the cops are interacting with the gangsters and the law-abiding citizens.

>>98748921
No. Onyx Path exists.

>>98748921
there been some vtm-likes because of v5 but they all doubled down on street level play for some reason so nobody gave a shit

>>98749266
I guess street level is easier to write than large scale stuff

>>98749266
What does non-street tier VtM even look like? Mages, sure, Umbra. Changelings & Werewolf? More Umbra. Wraith? Afterlife Umbra. Vampires are, like, the only splat that never leaves the planet.

>>98749293
sect war you being vampire james bond or just ruling the city are the basics that white wolf even printed books for (midnight siege, templars and archons, war of ages) while the chronicles themselves go more into century long plots

when people talk street level vampire they don't mean you are on a street or even you control a street they are really talking just about you being a vampire and the game being about dealing with that fact "who cares about politics you are hungry NOW" being how achilli described it in his post on discord where he talked about how fractions are all bad because they limit player options because appearntly in his games doing anything slightly out of the box get's you killed by hitmarks

>>98749333
Oh, huh. I would consider that sect war stuff to be the street level of vampire. Okay, Vampire is the only splat allowed to go beyond street level. The others still have to justify themselves to me.

>>98749148
Well Mathilda is physically 14 years old. Pretty much everything about her that I’ve told is funny

>>98749346
i can see why and before v5 i would have agreed especially because some of the more petty vampire domains are just a street or two but they deleted the sect war at the start of v5 to make it "street level" and also for the v5 writers just being a tremere in chantry that belongs to the pyramids is above street level even if you are a chargen neonate

i am going to check if i can find a screenshot of the post

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>>98749346
>>98749381

>>98749387
I would have done the opposite of this, personally. Instead of killing the higher powers, make up more. What if the Camarilla were only in the New England area? What if there were hundreds of camarilla-like factions, like countries, instead of the same old threeway war? Mage & Werewolf would have less of a single evil mega corp to fight, and would have regional mega corp monopolies to fight. That way you could have "opposed" clans in the same group, with out throwing out all of the settings political drama.

>>98749333
>>98749387
what kind of hitmarks is that guy running in his game and why can they wipe out his players without them being able to fight back? these are usually canon fooder for mages that's like saying the prince will sends his ghouls so you can't fight the camarilla

and you are meant to fight pentex in werewolf so if they are trying to kill you that's GOOD thats one of the most basic plots of the game

>>98749401
>What if the Camarilla were only in the New England area? What if there were hundreds of camarilla-like factions
i was thinking vtr would be going that direction when it first came out, but then they made the covenants weirdly both pretty much universal but also mostly disconnected on a city


>Werewolf would have less of a single evil mega corp to fight, and would have regional mega corp monopolies to figh
the thing with pentex is that you got that already with the Subsidiaries you have dozens of companies that belong to "pentex" but aren't friends and pentex as a whole is mentioned several times as being pretty bad at using the force at it's disposal because they aren't actually all that well functioning themselves between all the backstabbing and the wyrm induced madness

so you can scale their influence exactly as high or low as you want it in the story and have the players fight Full Force Solutions or Magadon or Queequeg the small evil coffee chain in washington

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>>98749387
>Mage & Werewolf would have less of a single evil mega corp to fight
The Technocracy's each Conventions are like 2-3 Traditions. That doesn't even include the eastern side of the Technocracy, Elemental Dragons.
Pentex has so many sub-corps that they range from WoD!Barbie to WoD!D&D to WoD!FoxNews to WoD!CallofDuty

Main problem with Achilli's take is that he has a very particular way of playing, a way to play WoD. He tried to cover it with "individuals can make a difference" but it is actually "nothing matters, especially you little individual"
His excuse makes you think the non-existant White Wolf™ Stormtroopers exists that will come to your house and force you to play the WoD in some imaginary way but the one doing that is actually himself, Achilli.

>>98749423
*on a city level

>>98749293
actually the afterlife is the street level for wraith. getting out of it is a high level option another is going deeper below the average afterlife becoming a helldiver or doomslayer (i am not making a video game reference they are called that) and fuck with the forces of oblivion

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Vampire countries could be based around the population mega regions.

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>>98747698
What makes werewolves so big? Magic? Evolution?

>>98749346
while it sucks what they did to the sabbat (and anarchs let's be real) in v5 i feel like it's good to remember that the sects never really got much focus in the corebooks before

they are mentioned of course but if you really wanted a sect war campaign you needed to buy the sabbat book of your edition separately and revised even went so far and gave the camarilla the same treatment

and before online ordering, pdfs (and tg general troves) your book store or st might just not had that one and so the basic game needed to run without it and that was: here is a city here is how they are usually run and why that sucks for you. But that is the basic the game is meant to grow after that and v5 did not understand that for a long time

>>98749347
Also if we think about it Shark was created in a lab months to years before our game started, shortly after WW1. If we started in 1918 then currently Shark is between 14 to 16 years old. Of total existence. If we started in 1920 he’d be 12 to 14.

And now he’s inhabiting the body of a 14 to 16 year old garou.

>>98749387
The ideal isn’t even a bad one but it’s undercut and exposed as the obvious bullshit it is by the existence of the SI.
>Ventrue goons show up at your door when you do dumb shit
Ew! Bad! My character expression is being limited!
>SI goons show up at your door when you do dumb shit
Wow! Cool! What interesting and dynamic character conflict!

>>98748937
>Curseborne already exists
My ST came very close to running that. He liked a lot about it, but it had a few dealbreakers for him.

>>98749148
In the chronical that I play in, there's some homeless kids living in an abandoned water park; and we're pretty sure at least one of them can turn into a black mink. We're pretty sure they're either changelings or gangrel.

>>98749293
>What does non-street tier VtM even look like?
I want you to picture the following scenarios in your head:
- A fledgling comes to a new city.
- A neonate comes to a new city.
- An Ancilla comes to a new city.
- An Elder comes to a new city.
- A Primogen comes to a new city.
- A Prince comes to a new city.
Completely different pictures, chronicles, games, based solely on the character's dots in Status, we aren't even touching the dots on the rest of the character sheet.

>>98749387
Reading through CofD lore that was made ground up with this sort of thinking in mind, it doesn't feel like horror and it doesn't feel like a secret supernatural hiding in society. It feels like the supernatural stapled onto modern society, not interacting with it at least, completely throwing away my immersion as supposedly super powerful mages, vampires and whatever elses exist but have no effect on mortal society, or really have done anything at all.

There's no conspiracy, there's no horror. This "Personal Horror" they keep espousing comes down to effete morality systems trying to shoehorn some sort of woe is me sentinmentality into games.

So yes, I want elders breathing down the neck, I want factions to have already done what I have thought of, I want the technocracy to send down HIT marks for some inane bullshit. I want neonates who piss off the bigshots to meet final death. Because the alternative feels like a dead setting in which I pretend to give a fuck about my own humanity as I wax philosophically about how much it sucks to have all these superpowers.

>>98749529
cofd or vtr is actually to opressive for the v5 crowd on discord because it is better to belong to a covenant then it is to be unbound and those are also "monoliths"

these guys really just want 20 vampires in a city hiding from the police

Ultimately, it's hard to make a game about the evils of modern day earth without having a political stance. Investors who want money and have final say will never let developers get political enough to have a stance on a subject. It's impossible for WoD to ever make a new statement. They can only repeat outdated but established lore, or make new toothless lore. Their hands are tied in ways I don't envy.

>>98749542
>these guys really just want 20 vampires in a city hiding from the police
You can do that but you will be fighting a lot of the system to keep that going. Even 3 starting character get about 21 point to entrench themselves before the raid.

Let's say you half that because you aren't a min maxing ass, that's still 11 point of territory, influence or whatever the fuck, presuming that your players think for half a second (it won't happen)

>>98749597
>You can do that but you will be fighting a lot of the system to keep that going. Even 3 starting character get about 21 point to entrench themselves before the raid.
yes that's why you give cops super powers too and scifi gear, bio weapons to poison the blood supply but only for you, sonic gear that can turn off all your powers and fuck it weapons of mass destruction

so they are a invincible threat, but also make sure the players know that those are not "real hunters" so that they don ask if they can play as them

>>98749623
That sounds lame as fuck.

>>98749632
welcome to the wonders of wod5

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>>98748532
Good. Make sure to harass some Virtual Adepts while you're there.

>>98749511
>My ST came very close to running that. He liked a lot about it, but it had a few dealbreakers for him.
same here although i am the ST of my group and to be honest i need the next book the announced the tier 2 one to make up my mind on the game because right now there is just not enough meat for me on there especially when i cut off the parts that aren't to my taste

>>98749511
>>98749648
Can you elaborate on curseborne? I myself skimmed over it, but it just isn't it. It feels even more obsessed with personal horror, now with a sort of weird cryptid backrooms angle baked in. The different splats don't feel like their own supernatural cultures at all, they're just classes.

>>98748183
>Eeeeeh… no. I’m not vibing with those names… perhaps it should be a German word rather than a name? Something that can sound cute for non-German speakers I know it’s hard with German (and optionally menacing or negative)
Haifisch.

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>>98749148
Chapter 3 never...

>>98749401
>What if there were hundreds of camarilla-like factions, like countries, instead of the same old threeway war?
>>98749423
>i was thinking vtr would be going that direction when it first came out, but then they made the covenants weirdly both pretty much universal but also mostly disconnected on a city
Yes, I have to say a recurring theme especially in WoD is that vampires aren't supposed to build very long lasting things, and usually have everything degenerate into petty infighting... but the Camarilla and its precursor are exempt.

The Camarilla succeeded where the human, historical Catholic Church (Church Universal, literally in the name) and the Roman Empire first and its reconstructions later, like the Holy Roman Empire and whatever over reconstructions (an Empire Universal) failed.

The Camarilla is the Universal Vampire Empire, the One Government, not simply in theory, but often in practice.

I guess it's easier to write just 2 or 3 factions but it kinda stretches my willing suspension of disbelief, you know? It's what is drawing me to VtR's Covenants, but if they're too detached from ruling the Kindred and kine in the city alike...
>>98749542
>cofd or vtr is actually to opressive for the v5 crowd on discord because it is better to belong to a covenant then it is to be unbound and those are also "monoliths"
Any fledgling would prefer to be in a Sect/Covenant/Coterie/literally anything other than being alone in the Darkness! You want the bigger guy to protect you when you're small.

These V5 players sound like they aren't fans of governments, though I wonder whom do they usually vote for...
>these guys really just want 20 vampires in a city hiding from the police
I think they just want to play fantasy Antifa beating up the guards/cops, which, I was told, was how Critical Role handled much their murderhobo antics in D&D. Coincidence?

>>98749661
>It feels even more obsessed with personal horror, now with a sort of weird cryptid backrooms angle baked in. The different splats don't feel like their own supernatural cultures at all, they're just classes.
the first part is exactly my problem although personally i am fine with like half of the what was the term lineages? as i like stuff the dead a lot but think that other stuff like sorcerers and their sacrifices being way too vague for my autistic mind

the next is going to be about conspiracies and actual city rulership, real enemy factions in the setting in the form of fae and shadow famillies in addition to tier 2 higher level powers and systems for the player character

>There's more to this accursed life than family feuds and street level squabbles.

>There are citywide conspiracies and entities beyond understanding prepared to change your entire world.

>In Curseborne Covenant, you will see them. You will experience them. But it is your choice whether you fall victim to them or take control of - and from - them.

>the thing we’ve not been talking about too much regarding Curseborne Covenant, and a part that intrigues me a great deal, is the nature of our shadow Families: those Accursed Families that have thrown in with the Fae (and other beings of the Outside) because frankly, they see the rest of the Accursed as being on the insipid, foolish, and losing side of magical affairs

scion 2e is kinda like that too where the game only really gets going book 2 hero to the point where a lot of people either skip book 1 or just use it for a oneshot prologue and i am hoping that covenant is also going to be a jump like that in quality

>>98749679
>aren't fans of governments, though I wonder whom do they usually vote for
Buddy, if you think there is such a thing as an anti-government president do I have a bridge to sell you!

>>98749679
>fantasy Antifa beating up the guards/cops
That's Mage and Werewolf.
>which, I was told, was how Critical Role handled much their murderhobo antics
You were told that the knights loyal to the crown were antifa? You believed that?

>>98749623
I'm not even mad with some of it but every other thing feels like it's supposed to be a hard counter.
Like John Hunter having something that shuts down being able to waterboard the blood bonding from your ghoul bodyguard sounds fine but the way it's written it's written how you are not allowed to do shit about it.

>>98749467
Drinking their brotein

>>98749704
it is because SI is not a faction it's a epiloge cut scene. swedish dracule especially in his mind designed the game with the SI killing you at the end in mind

all those tools are meant to make your player feel helpless and then they die. it's like dnd published a book about falling rocks

>>98749691
oh, thanks a lot anon. If that's the case I might at least take a look once the second curseborne book's out. If it's garbage I'm sure it can be mined for inspiration either way. Like I said I only took a skim, but I genuinely don't fucking understand how I am supposed to run a game of curseborne, like what's even gonna drive my weirdos together or what's happening. Seems like I gotta make up literally everything myself.

And I share your hate for sorcerers, but for different reasons. Because I enjoy magic most as a system every splat can access to varying degrees.

>>98749718
>like what's even gonna drive my weirdos together or what's happening
now it's been a while since i ran or even read curseborne but from what i understand accursed can only become more powerful by mixing their curse with others by joining a crew

so even the most powerhungry guy needs to have crew unless he wants to stay on powerstat 1 forever which is why some crews are founded families, some are merc groups and some a really just allies of convenience

> I genuinely don't fucking understand how I am supposed to run a game of curseborne
i did run a tiny bit of curseborne but it quickly devolved into a dungeon crawler using liminal spaces and outsides and back then i came the conclusion that factions are missing and wanted to write some... and then decided that i am not going to make that effort when i can just run any other wod/cofd game

but again i also wouldn't run scion 2e with only book 1 origin because that's before you even interact with any of the phanteons so let's hope they make that jump again and hopefully don't do the same thing with jadestorm

>>98749693
I don't, but I noticed there are quite a number of bridge salesmen out there. It was a rhetorical question, as I am of the opinion that WoD5 players usually vote for the closest thing IRL has to a Camarilla, but which often chooses to advertise itself as the Anarchs an effective strategy to sell more bridges.
>>98749699
>That's Mage and Werewolf.
Yes, two of the Big Three, do we need every splat to do just that and only that?
>>98749699
>You were told that the knights loyal to the crown were antifa? You believed that?
I couldn't be paid enough to watch that, but it was during season 2 IIRC.

>>98749674
Literally the best doujin

>>98749704
The Second Inquisition is meant to be adjustable and modular, being as threatening as the ST wants it to be.
If the ST doesn't want the Second Inquisition in their game, then they just have an observation post manned by half a dozen goons who know sweet fuck all about the vampires of the city.
If the ST wants the Second Inquisition to play a major part, then they get to wheel out all of the cool toys and brag about how they successfully captured the fifth generation prince of the city, leaving the local Camarilla leaderless.

>>98749718
>Seems like I gotta make up literally everything myself.
This is probably my single biggest point of friction with contemporary urban fantasy games and their writers: that I have to worldbuild everything all by myself.
Interesting characters, locations, lineages, factions, social networks, motivations, stories, lore and receive next to no help.
Where are the iconic NPCs that players at different tables could relate to, be them heroes or villains? Where is the lore drawing new players in? You don't attract new people just by telling them how the dice are supposed to be rolled.
Seduce me and others, the possible GMs, before we can talk about seducing new players.

>>98749718
>And I share your hate for sorcerers, but for different reasons. Because I enjoy magic most as a system every splat can access to varying degrees.
also yeah 100% i don't even mind not all people being able to use magic in a setting if you stay consistent with that but curseborne isn't even doing that

curseborne has both a line of mage priests turned immortals and "more mage than vampire" hungry both of which can't use sorcerer spells okay fair perhaps those guys are really into those ritual spells everyone can learn... but wait! do you know who can use a limited amount of sorcerer spells? Venators hunters who leech curse of from the act of hunting their supernatural prey... even it said prey is not a sorcerer so what is it? unique powers of the sorcerer curse or spells powered by curse energy?

like i get not wanting to recreate the tremere and all that but i really prefer it when the logic behind the world building makes internal sense

>>98749529
It's just not as on the nose about it, although stuff like Seers of the Throne is still quite on the nose. But you have a bunch of other places as well where the mundane world and the supernatural interact, a bunch of them in Hunter, but other gamelines have some as well.

>>98749804
But anon, you don't want to invent any actual factions, what if those factions could like, affect the player characters? What if you write an evil man and he's close to the PCs.. can't have them struggle with an actual thing in the dark that's not their own internal monster. Drinking blood? Heck yes. Possibly having to deal with institutional evil, that's too scary..

>>98749804
>Where are the iconic NPCs that players at different tables could relate to, be them heroes or villains? Where is the lore drawing new players in?
this is another thing white wolf is keeping for a later book and that's really weird to me because premade characters is something they did in scion (both editions) and did well enough and the fact that they are planning to do that implies that they know it's needed but all these guys that are in the corebook are meant to be in the first city book but said city book isn't even fully announced yet we have no idea where it's current place in the pipeline even is

they also gave a shit ton of haunted places for a city for you to drop into a game so they could have taken half of those + some of the npcs they obviously have already written and just use half a chapter or so to at least make a example city. why is a fiction book of oneshots that lack context to be worthwhile for worldbuilding the next thing that happened after the corebook instead of anything the game actually needed is something i will never understand

>>98749804
You're talking about metaplot. We had metaplot, it was awful.

>>98749855
no metaplot would be if those characters would be moving inbetween books and do stuff offscreen

just having world building is not metaplot

>>98749753
>vote for the closest thing IRL has to a Camarilla, but which often chooses to advertise itself as the Anarchs an effective strategy to sell more bridges.
Look at who's afraid of having a take. You can just say Republicans and Libertarians.
>do we need every splat to do just that and only that?
I mean, does every entry in a series need to follow the core themes of the series? I guess not, but it'd suck shit. See everyone's complaints in this thread for why.
>I couldn't be paid enough to watch that
"This thing is shit!"
Okay, why?
"Because it's got X, Y, and Z in it!"
It doesn't, actually.
"W-Well, I was told what to think by other people!"
That's fine, it just means you don't really have anything to contribute. You opinion is less valuable than someone who knows the subject, and still dislikes it for their own personal reasons.

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>>98749842
>this is another thing white wolf is keeping for a later book
THERE IS NO OTHER BOOK
BECAUSE THE PLAYERS WILL ONLY BUY, AND HOPEFULLY READ, THE CORE BOOK
DON'T GIVE ME THIS PLOT HOOKS SOLD SEPARATELY
FOOLISH DEVELOPERS
>>98749855
Would you agree with this definition:
>The metaplot (also, metastory) is the overarching storyline that binds together events in the official continuity of a published role-playing game campaign setting, also defined as an "evolving history of a given fictional universe"
?
Because I don't want the "where the history of this setting is headed", I want the geography, demography, prehistory, but not necessarily "the sky is falling and the world ends in year 2004."
>>98749864
Yes. Note that V6 developers do not know this. They see a named character, and think they are seeing a metaplot.

>>98749870
>Okay, why?
this was the reason
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=prJcs6WcnDo

>>98749833
funny you say that because the next book is going to feature 5 of them

>Those Families are the Black Ledger, the Bone Collectors, the Dragon’s Horde, Great Filter, and Whisper Thieves.

>None of them are nice.

>None of them are heroic.

>All of them want to ruin the lives of the Accursed who turned their back on the Fae.

and these guys need to be awful because the heirs are allowed in normal accursed society and are a character option like any other and those guys eat fresh human hearts, run the american prison–industrial complex including the prisons themselves and are the reasons werewolves exists because they wanted to eat a women's kids

>>98749884
>BECAUSE THE PLAYERS WILL ONLY BUY, AND HOPEFULLY READ, THE CORE BOOK DON'T GIVE ME THIS PLOT HOOKS SOLD SEPARATELY FOOLISH DEVELOPERS
onyx path seems to be under the assumption that their customer base will buy addons to a barebones corebook they done it atleast twice now (not checking on exalted because i don't care for it) i bet they will do it with jadestorm too

and i hate it but yes selling plothooks, higher level powers and even most of the basic worldbuilding later is exactly what they are doing and i was kinda hoping that it explode in their faces because curseborne IS sold in stores it's not just a kickstarter thing for already existing fans like their other previous books, but it doesn't seem to have happened the second curseborne book (players guide) already had it's kickstarter after all

>>98749884
>Yes. Note that V6 developers do not know this. They see a named character, and think they are seeing a metaplot.
-sigh- what did the idiots do?

>>98749917
They are trying to write a metaplot... without a metaplot! Do you want to know what happens next? Find out in the next publication of Aimless: The Writing!

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if we are bitching about curseborne because of the announcement 2 days ago then my 2 cents are that they really need to nail down the art style because some of which is on the level of their really bad kickstarter books and some is quite good and the announcment itself gives a good microcosmos of that because these two pictures are on the same page
>https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/200664283/curseborne-covenant

>>98749954
WoD/CofD never had a consistent art style though. Also what did they announce a couple days ago?

Vampire's metaplot will always struggle because it tries to line up with real life.
>you get bit MAYBE twenty years ago MAX
>deal with a new problem in your city
>you know what? Maybe I'll just have my elder vampire DevNPC will just take of it for you
>okay, goodbye forever!
The whole metaplot structure should be build about playing vampires though the ages. You wanna play all new blood? Fine. You want to play the Metaplot of VtM? You better start in Dark Ages and play through to modern nights.

>>98749960
the tier 2 and faction book curseborne: covenants

the thing they been talking about the last few post has only been announced one or two days ago depending on timezone and the kick starter for it isn't even up yet

>>98749892
>have one moment of lapsed judgment
>immediate consequences
>definitely an example of uncontrolled murder hobos

>>98749968
that's what they did with both the giovanni and transilvania chronicles so it's weird to me that they never did more smaller gap filler setting like something on the scale of victorian vampire every few hundred years

>>98749954
somebody post the curseborne werewolf. You know which one.

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>>98749917
>>98749928
They will talk about the metaplot in dev diary 5. Until then here is the preview. Basically, all the pieces back on the board.

>>98750005
there is more like hecata isn't a playable clan and so on
cue the v5fags seething at their game being rolled back

>>98749293
>Non-street tier
Raiding government compounds, anarchy, total corporate building destruction, national civil war, influencing non-local politics, destroying egypt, etc

>>98749387
>Discord post
>Retarded opinion
Why is it so common?

>>98749423
>they made the covenants weirdly both pretty much universal but also mostly disconnected on a city
That's how organized crime works, for one.

>>98749795
Let me phrase it another way, most of what they introduced feels underdeveloped as plot hooks even if you use Winter's Teeth as a reference point.

Maybe I'm just forgetting the actual text but I feel like there were supposed to be a blurb on what each of the archetypes achieved to give people some ideas on how to use them and where their weaknesses lie.

Like how Cuckoo Fledglings often get corrupted by the vampires they interact with or delve into the consequences of giving people a lobotomy to remove blood bonds or give resistance to mental powers and how they have to play around those weaknesses untill they have enough for the helicopters.

>TLDR
The SI need more table tailoring than you would expect given the price point.

>>98750017
A new edition is a chance to smooth over the old complex lore. Hecata IS Giovanni now.

>>98748921
In Nomine already exists

>>98749293
>What does non-street tier VtM even look like?
Your characters are influential enough to use proxies and orchestrate city wide projects.

So rather than murdering one another in a drive by shooting you start to ghoul people to bulldoze their house before awakening the elder sleeping beneath it.

>>98750005
>The Cam still exists
>Elders are backs
>Anarchs are le "winning"
>Somehow, the sabbat has returned!

This is kind of a nothingburger

>>98750185
So, it's a good reset to baseline for a new edition?

>>98750203
You can look at it like that, I mostly think it's a case of "we have fuck all to add so here's the most basic take on the lore while we fuck with the mechanics"

>>98750203
No, because they won't be actually resetting to baseline, and the stuff they add back in won't actually be fleshed out and will be respun to be lamer than before.

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>>98750005
>ANARCHBROS WE WON
Won what exactly? God, such a stupid faction. Anarchs really are one of those 1eisms that should've stayed in Chicago and L.A. with the third position being Autarch

>>98750270
>Won what exactly?
They now hold XYZ major cities normally owned by the big 2 and they will... Do fuck all with their new resources besides making playing the other factions a pain in the ass.

>>98750292
Can't wait to hear more about big Anarch Rudi whose only character traits are his various identities. The actual most annoying thing about him is that he's a nothing character yet the face of the Anarchs. He's pitted more like what a PC is supposed to be doing, but that's too big picture for nuWoD

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>>98749639
Umm Mr Technocrat, sir. You might need to invest in updating your security. One of your conventions has a whole terabyte on 'spider girls I want to lay eggs inside me' along with bra measurements on every female agent organized by convention. Also what is Threat Null?

>>98750336
Both of those are public access data along side the dong measurements of every male member of the organization, before and after augmentation.

The terabyte is just the compressed pictures of our liaisons with the our Asian branches. The full thing should be 62 yottabytes.

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>>98749467
Gaia is a furry lover.

>>98749467
Rage

>>98750424
And the weaver is the biggest weeb for humanity.

>>98749639
I like that edit anon, do you know who made it?

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>>98750429
And what would the Wyrn be?

>>98750476
Angry

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How could we update the concept of Werewolf: The Apocalypse?

>>98750503
I don't think it can be. If it's your problematic fav go right ahead, but I can't justify a new version. All the things you'd need to change would fundamentally make it not WtA anymore. I guess strip it for parts to give to the other splats.

>>98750503
Instead of burning down nuclear power plants we can burn down data centers

>>98749293
>everyone else's higher level is just more umbraslop

No wonder they never got as popular.

>>98750503
Step one, identify what is in need of updating.

>>98750542
Also take out private jets and burn down child rape islands.

>>98750566
The racism of the angery savage beastfolk living in tribes, for one.

>>98750527
I think it could be done by doing some cleaning up of the cosmology while keeping all the weaver/wyrm/wyld shit. Expanding on the weaver incarna specifically could be good. Providing werewolves with much more to do than killing wyrmspawn and maybe support for generational woof games?

>>98750432
Of course, that would be me.

>>98750572
What's racist about it?

>>98750572
>angery savage beastfolk living in tribes
But I see that every day. -t. living in Baltimore.

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>>98750527
I've tried to give it a try but the garou tribes bore me, so I'm taking Pentex books to throw some industrial slop monsters at my players in other lines.

>>98750581
Are you stupid on purpose, or did it come naturally to you?

>>98750624
It came naturally. Could you explain, please?

>>98750624
>answering a question with another question
Lol, nice deflection. Care to answer the anon?

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>>98750631
Native people have tribes
Native people don't like being called savage, violent, primitive, etc.
Werewolves, in this setting, live in tribes and are all those things.
If this was what European folklore said werewolves had always been like, that'd be one thing, but it's not.
The devs, a lot of white folk, intentionally leaned into the stereotype called "the noble savage" to lay the ground work for WtA.
These devs also made a game called Gypsy.
It also leans on stereotypes a lot.
The devs said that game was too racist and shelved it forever.
WtA should probably have the same happen to it.

>>98750669
>Native people don't like being called savage, violent, primitive, etc.
Maybe they should stop acting savage, violent, primitive, etc.

>>98750682
They are no worse then the white people. Weird they never get called out for it though.

>>98750574
It is a very nice edit, anon. I wish I was more read up on MtA. I know the basics and some tidbits of the technocracy but aside from Threat Null, I dont really know any their dirty secrets.

>>98750699
>we're all the same bro
Lol, who's the sheltered White liberal now?

>>98750503
I often see people try and come up with fixes to OWoD, and they always just end up recreating NWoD from first principles.
I think this is an important distinction between NWoD and Paradox Wod, the former actually took into account what people were criticising and tried to fix it, the latter is just doing random shit nobody asked for.

>>98750775
I never said we're all the same. Where'd that come from?

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>>98750336
We'll look into these leaks right away. You will have to be disintegrated now, we thank you for you help and cooperation.

>>98748921
>like people turned their backs on D&D 4th and 5th Edition
They'd already done it by 3rd.

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>>98750830
>2e loyalist
Go back to your cave and hang out eith THAC0 the clown

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When are we getting Dev Diary #3?

>>98748896
Rural vampire is a favorite under-explored topic for me, I've put a lot of thought into it. Assuming you throw quantum werewolves into the dumpster where they belong, the city vs. country dynamic is an interesting one for vampires. If you want to become lord of some podunk town, there are quite a few upsides. You're not surrounded by other vampires and thus can quickly establish yourself as the sole secret power. Then, if any try to move in, you've already supremely entrenched and can see them off. As everything operates at a smaller scale, you need far fewer ghouls and other underlings to keep your operation running, and with a peaceful, easy to run domain like that you can dedicate your time to other pursuits. It's a very tantalizing option for neonates, who can often struggle to achieve anything greater than top lieutenant of a real power player. Not to mention, the countryside is just cozy.

But there's problems. Obviously, the ceiling of what you can achieve logistically is much, much lower in the countryside. Even if the town/county has an actual industry, which is far from a given these nights. The other problem is that you're pretty much on your own. A small town can only support a single vampire in the long term, and a mid sized country town could swing a coterie. If an Elder decides they want your town as a summer home, you're probably fucked. Same for marauding Sabbat or something far stranger.

Which brings me to sects. There's probably a lot of small town independents and Anarchs, but they're also going to have that high turnover rate. The Sabbat's style of "ruling" isn't very compatible with communities where people know each other, it's going to be very difficult to not be noticed and start a Hunter revolt when you're getting up to their usual bullshit. However, marauding nomad packs are probably an epidemic in the countryside.

cont.

>>98750870
After that shit show I doubt they will even release a document.

>>98750669
So the fix is to call werewolf factions something that "native people" would not be offended by. A synonym for a pack of wolves is a rout, so maybe that.

>>98750669
Tribe is also often used in politics, I definitely hear people refer to like a party or ideology as a tribe. Which is also how Forsaken uses the term, werewolves live in packs, tribes are more like philosophies, members sometimes meet, but it's otherwise pretty loose.

>>98749387
This guy is such a fucking loser holy shit. How they did even think it was a good idea giving the control of WoD for almost 20 years to this pathetic sellout piece of shit like him is beyond me. The guy is like a cronie from one of the enemy factions, not even the Sabbat who are violent and cool or the Technocracy who are kinda well-organized, he's a Pentex bitch. No wonder this IP has been given the final death.

>>98750770
Thank you. Decided to make something since I'm too lazy to sit down and finish my sfm projects.
>spoiler
As a good technocrat I could name a few, you have: MECHA, SPD dealing with Pentex and nephandi, Progenitors running horizon realms dedicated to creating slave races, social conditioning is basically mind control, NWO is running an artificial town and has created super sleepers, catching wyldlings to siphon quint and turn pieces of them into talismans. I'm sure there's more but I'd need to read some books again

>>98750939
Don't worry, he's out now. He made the mistake of disrespecting the Irish.

>>98750889
Where it gets really interesting I think is the Camarilla. Because it provides a relief valve for one of the Cam's biggest problems: Young disenfranchised vampires. Essentially the system I have in mind is thus: Neonates and Ancillae claim parts of the suburbs and countryside as Domain, but swear homage to the nearest Prince. They're not quite Princes (letting a vampire that rules a tiny town call themself Prince would degrade the title), but are commonly referred to as some variant of Marcher Lord. Margrave, Marquis, etc. They extend the Prince's own domain through this vassalage, but provided they maintain the Traditions, can rule their domain as they see fit. What they get out of this is the Prince's protection when problems come knocking.

So the youngsters can get experience running a domain on a smaller scale, and a bit of separation (but not total removal) from city court politics. The Prince extends his eyes and ears beyond the metropolitan area. It's mutually beneficial, but it can be cutthroat. Strong Princes might proactively reward loyal neonates with rural domains, so only the "good ones" get to have some power of their own. A problematic Margrave will likely find themselves quietly dusted, with the sad affair blamed on Sabbat. The Primogen Council might not be the biggest fans of the Marcher system, because it partially bypasses their authority. Sure, you have some authority over one if they're your blood, but neonates with a regular, direct line to the Prince undermines your main source of boon farming.

I find a system like this vastly improves the depth of local politics and opens up many new options for your chronicle.

>>98750926
So, throw out WtA and make WtF the oWoD splat?

>>98750503
Correctly updated wta would be a chud game too spicy for normalfags.

>>98750964
No, the Urethra are even more boring than the Garou.

What we need is werewolves who are actually grounded in folklore and pop culture.

>>98750983
Ah! So, make werewolves into changelings or vampires?

>>98750893
So, the company won't make any new products ever again?

>>98751006
Hopefully.

>>98750995
You could probably make "werewolf" a nickname for Gangrel and be done with it, tie all werewolf myths to humans misidentifying Gangrel vampires as something else.
Otherwise, being a werewolf should be all about uncontrollable rage and wrestling with a curse inflicted on you against your will.

>>98750983
Nah, fuck that, I like the super soldier ecoterrorist hippie woofs charged by a divine (sort of) mandate with cleansing evil, but who end up causing most of their own problems. Alot of werewolf IS grounded in folk lore and pop culture, but maybe not in a way you personally like/see.

>>98750983
>werewolves who are actually grounded in folklore and pop culture.
That would turn them either
A) Mage minor splat (since usually witches, sorcerers and Warlocks willingly transform to and back to wolves)
B) Vampire but furry

>>98750959
So, the mafia. Why do vampfags keep reinventing the wheel?

>>98751022
See >>98751015, I'm happy with Werewolf not existing as its own game and just being a subsect of Gangrel.

>>98750669
european natives also had tribes
the concept of a "tribe" doesn't belong to americans

>>98751043
>>98751015
>Im the vampfag's ideal world, Werewolf doesn't exist

>>98751077
Sure, but the WoD is focused on the US, where the developers were originally from. There is no inspiration from the European tribes. The game explicitly draws connections to the american tribes.

>>98751089
That's everyone's ideal world desu.

>>98751089
In a good World of Darkness, the only splats that exist are Vampire, Wraith and Demon.

>>98751070
>I'm not racist! I put a modifier before the slur!

>>98751097
Fiannabros...
Get of Fenrisbros...
Black Furriessisters...
Everyone except Uktena and Wendigo...

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>>98751110
I said game is not racist, not that I am not.

>>98751112
Great exceptions to the rule.

>>98751097
this has to be bait right?
the white howlers and fianna are literally based on the tribal picts and celts

>>98751117
I don't think a racist can be a good judge on when something is not racist.

>>98751118
What rule? Uktena and Wendigo are American. Stargazers are Asian. Silent Striders are Egyptian. The rest is European.

>>98751126
>I don't think
We can all see that.

>>98751112
Irish Americans.
German Americans.
Feminist Americans.
All Americans who aren't Native.

>I don't think a cook can be a good judge on when something is well cooked.

>>98751141
>know you are what am I
Isn't it getting late for you? It's a school night.

>>98751156
>it's a night
Hivan...

You guys are falling for the most obvious bait right now.

>>98751151
I don't think someone who burns steaks can tell the difference between medium and well done.

if wta's gothic punk horror elements, including the tragic hubris of flawed protagonists and the pseudo-erotic biological horror of kinfolk breeding are too problematic for you, might I recommend something more of your speed that doesn't market itself as gothic punk horror, like ponyshow?

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>>98751164
Yeah, but the bait is so biteable.

>>98751170
I like all that though. It's just done better in literally every other splat.

>>98751165
As a racist content maker myself, I am perfectly able to tell if a racism is medium or well done.
And wta isn't racist.

>>98751180
>therefore we should remove all of it
As a magefag, even I am disappointed in you baka

>>98749293
Actually, vampires used to have access to the Umbra before Revised garbage ruined that too.

>>98750964
nta, I definitely think that WtF fits better with VtM in terms of themes and feel.

This thread smells wyrmish.

black dog game studio trying to alter the consensus again

>>98751188
We should especially remove Mage.

>>98751213
thank god that would mean we would be free from m6

>>98751213
I do think we could synergize Tremere & Mage better. Go back to Ars lore instead of Exaulted.

I'm gonna do the same thing that one anon did and take the best parts of both Werewolf lines to mash them up into one coherent whole.

>>98747708
>>98748921
There are already various new Vampire games in the making, they're just not coming to TTRPG first because TTRPG has become a enshittified market dominated by big names like Warhammer and DnD. Nobody wants to waste their time here because you're forced to be a bitch of a big name or start with clout with the Kickstarter. No one who is creative enough to create their own WoD is going to work for a shitty company like Paradox.

>>98751089
What did you expect?

>>98751235
What, video games? I guess Dawnwalker is fun.

>>98751235
I've thought about hacking OpenD6 to be WoD based.

>>98750567
this is already canon, the new silver fang king united all the tribes to destroy the seventh generation

>>98751235
What truly caused the ttrpg market to fall as hard as it did?

>>98749529
>woe is me sentinmentality into games.
But that's the thing. That's exactly what they want and that's exactly what they have trying to force everyone else to play since the three horses of bad writing destroyed White Wolf originally the game has turned into a prime example of bourgeois morality. The original WoD was made by people who lived in the streets or knew how it was to live in the street, they didn't romantice it, they wanted a game that reflected it as it is and at the same time let you transcend that level to something greater and more important. The new crop of losers on the other hand, are pieces of shit who never had any problems in their lives, they found a game already made, got paid handsomely for shitting on it and destroying it, and are part of the upper class LARPing as lower classes. They want to attune for their sins pretending they're lower class, but they're part of the system. They romantice the street and want to remove your access to power in the game because it tells it reminds of them, the critique of the game is directed at people LIKE them. They also need to virtue signal to the other losers of their own class they're good people, which is 90% of the individuals who like absolute trash like V5. Zoomers and other wanna-be little pseudo fascist that want to be told by momma they're punks.

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>enters your caern

>>98751375
I don't know which one is worse:
Those guy or the implication I'm a g*rou.

>>98751228
Why? Tremere were mages, they became vampires, now there are no more mages. That's all there needs to be to it.

>>98750957
What did he do to lose the favour of Paradox? Other than the obvious of failing so bad with 5th that they gave up on the edition half way though.

Good news.
Spider chapter tomorrow.

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>>98751375
mummy/demonbros...

>>98751317
>They want to atone for their sins
They don't.

>>98748183
Hai is "shark" in german apparently

>>98749454
The empty spots are werewolf territory.

>>98750889
>>98750959
Excellent homebew anon. This is something you do for your own chronicle or just an interesting subject you developed for personal worldbuilding? This is the type of post I came here instead of all the screeching and fladerized banal boring shitposting.
>>98751039
Literally nothing of what this anon said had jackshit to do with fucking mafia. Are you retards just repating some shit you read on Reddit or Youtube? Because this is just this "LE MAFIA XD" meme comes from. Typical secondary garbage.

>>98751401
He disrespected the Irish.
For W5, the Native American tribes were renamed out of respect for Native American culture and to avoid cultural appropriation. However, all of the European tribes kept their culturally appropriated names, such as the Black Furies (appropriated from Greek mythology), the Get of Fenris (appropriated from Scandinavian mythology) and the Fianna (appropriately from general Irish culture).
While the Irish aren't particularly high up the progressive stack, they are still recognised as marginalised by progressives, so there were some people asking why the Fianna were still called the Fianna.
Achilli responded by saying the Fianna is "just a word" and that it doesn't matter what he uses it for, which led to outrage from a bunch of my-great-grandfather-was-Irish Werewolf fans who were quick to point out his hypocrisy and how Fianna is just a word, while Wendigo and Uktena are sacred names never to be used again by Werewolf.
Within three months, he left Paradox supposedly of his own volition, before W5 even came out. The Fianna were renamed to the Hart Wardens.

>>98751422
Sims 3 had mummies.

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>a game about the evils of modern day
The World of Darkness as written from and for a Black perspective could be interesting.

>>98751426
Bourgeois morality is Christian morality removed of every trascendental feature. You're encouraged to pretend you're good but never doing anything for the poor.

>>98751478
Nope. Blade was cancelled by Disney because it was too problematic. Sorry.

>>98751483
Christian morality is Jewish morality repackaged for the gentiles.

>>98751507
>You will immediately cease and not continue to access the site if you are under the age of 18.

>>98751507
Please stop with the racism

they are just practicing the socially acceptable version of anti zionism by progressives now

>>98751534
>I don't read my own holy book I use as a prop for my unwarranted self-importance.

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>I have to worldbuild everything all by myself
Just talk to your local schizo. You'll soon have more conspiracies than you know what to do with.

>>98751244
Videogames, along with independent comics and books because they can be self-published by one person.

>>98751310
Same as anything else, monopoly and enshittification. In the last few years the RPG market has consolidated in a handful of big publishers who only promote the lowest of the lowest garbage. You would have to be crazy wanting to work under them when is the creative equivalent of being a McDonalds burger flipper, you receive orders and do as you're told and 0 fun is allowed. Respect the brand and that's all. In today's TTRPG market something like the original WW would have never existed because it was born of a couple of young Gen X dudes putting skin on the game to sell books to nerds.

>>98751627
I am my own schizo I dont need to talk to anyone

>>98751624
Yes yes Timmy, be a nice a boy and after you stop scrolling /pol/ tell your mom I'm going on a visit.

>>98751457
It's actually been applied to Chronicles at my table, albeit rarely as the focus. The idea first formed when we were playing a Vampire game set in Washington D.C. (our first serious long term vampire chronicle). And as someone from the area, D.C. proper is geographically tiny. Its actual sphere of influence though sprawls throughout suburbs and towns in Virginia and Maryland. Most people who work in the city live in these areas, so it seemed logical to extend the domain outwards. We didn't formalize it until later, but there was the running joke that barely any of D.C.'s Ventrue actually lived in the district. My PC for that Chronicle was essentially a Marcher Lord.

It's also partially because so many good modern vampire stories take place in small towns, and it's a shame the baseline setting neglects it. So after the Chronicle I decided to work out the details of how to make it a widespread but technically informal part of the Camarilla.

Don't take the guy screeching mafia seriously. It's an oversimplification made popular by tabletop Youtubers. Because the mob is baby's first conspiracy, and at its height the italian mob was practicing a shitty bastardized form of feudalism. That guy is just throwing it around as bait.

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>WoD/CofD never had a consistent art style though.
Much to its detriment.

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>>98750889
>>98750959
You're right that quantum werewolves are retarded. However, your setup completely undermines the role of the Primogen, who are supposed to be precisely their clan's representatives to the prince, at least in theory.
>neonates with a regular, direct line to the Prince undermines your main source of boon farming.
Precisely. Why the fuck would the Primogeniture allow that? And you think the Prince has the time of night to take calls from Johnny Fang asking for permission to ghoul a racoon in dirt road nowhere?
However, as you say, country vampire opens up lots of interesting chronicle opportunities. Maybe your coterie needs to infiltrate the small domain, maybe they gotta deal with some unseen horror that begins stalking the town, maybe they're the first witnesses to a Sabbat incursion party, maybe another small fry is trying to take the town from them, maybe the local population is a bit more zealous than expected. Or maybe they're witnessing Nictuku and all lines to warn the Nosferatu are mysteriously cut off.

>>98751743
>WTF MAN THEY TOLD ME IF I BIKED AND SKYPED I COULD (you know the rest)

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>>98750135

>>98751743
>when you use intelligence as your dump stat

>>98751773
>Why the fuck would the Primogeniture allow that?
Not every city has a strong Primogen council, there's a reason I specified strong Princes appointing them. A strong Primogen council might block the creation of Marches entirely, but then they've essentially blinded themselves outside the city limits and ceded ground to anarchs, independents, and god knows what else. A savvy Primogen might instead try and ensure loyal clanmates get landed, which could lead to infighting in the council. Actually getting the Primogen Council to keep a united front against the Prince isn't easy unless the Prince is their doormat.

Different cities would have different approaches and different outcomes, hence why it's an informal system, not something enshrined in the Cam like the Traditions and Primogen.

>And you think the Prince has the time of night to take calls from Johnny Fang asking for permission to ghoul a racoon in dirt road nowhere?
Which is exactly why I said that the Marcher Lords run their domain as they see fit. As long as you keep the traditions, you don't need to run most things by the Prince. You're a vassal, not a directly administered subject. Your communiques with the Prince would be ocassional and likely include occasional trips into the city proper to honor your liege.

>>98751847
Oh, also, it need not be a top-down thing. A vampire might claim their backwater domain themselves, then petition the nearby Prince after the fact. In fact, I bet that outside of cities with very strong Princes, that's probably the norm rather than via appointments.

>>98751773
>Prince has the time of night to take calls from Johnny Fang asking for permission to ghoul a racoon in dirt road nowhere?
You freak out one (1) time as a neonate and 2 decades later motherfuckers are still talking about that.

>>98750865
Which Changeling: the Dreaming book is that picture from?

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>>98751627
YOU VILL VRITE ONE (1) BOOK I CAN ACTUALLY USE TO RUN ONE (1) FUCKING GAME VITHOUT HAVING TO DO EVERYTHING MYSELF
YOU VILL SELL IT
AND YOU VILL BE HAPPY

>>98751405
Thanks again for your story.

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>>98751422
>>98751468

>>98751422
Aren't wizards closer to sorcerers than mages, though?
>Hunter
Arguably, any sim under your control that isn't a supernatural can sorta-kinda qualify as a Hunter, if you choose that kind of life for them.
(You) the player are the Messenger, no?
>GO HERE
>WASH THE DISHES
>FIGHT THE VAMPIRE

>>98751201
Tell me more. I'm intrigued.

>bourgeois morality
Fuck off, Commie. Take this shit back to >>>/pol/ .

>>98751422
I like how the black lady on the werewolf expansion pack is disgusted at Taylor Swift for being a stereotypical white woman.

>>98748896
I ran a VtR campaign with this premise. A new town was being developed in the UK, and Princes from various nearby cities attempted to infiltrate the development to set themselves into the town. Different coiteries enmeshed themselves in various institutions, whether that was the local councils, town planners, dumps etc. It was a lot of fun. There was some local resistance from various present supernaturals, but nothing huge.

One thing the PCs did was invest large sums of money into superfluous utilities beneath the city. Gas-lines, sewers etc were excavated and works began on them before new plans were drawn up, leaving a network of tunnels underneath the town for the PCs to use. One PC was strangely insistent on developing a monorail network that would somehow be beneficial to Kindred, though that never panned out.

>>98751500
Of course blood-sucking capitalists would be threatened by a black man with a plan.

>>98751971
There is a Horizon Realm like magical realm you go to where wizards are, seperete from normies.

>>98751638
>independent comics
Nobody reads those.

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Do you guys have any stories or rulings on using social powers while in a hideous form? For some reason our friends took Protean and Majesty in a single character.

>>98749481
>(and anarchs let's be real)
What did they do that even comes closed to revised's "you guys suck in every way imaginable and you aren't even cool about it" approach to anarchs?

>>98752082
>Do you guys have any stories or rulings on using social powers while in a hideous form?
It's called playing a Nosferatu.

>>98751389
Except all the modern nights clerics under the SI.

>>98752003
Sorry, but when the games feature corrupt governments and rebellious punks, you're gonna get political talks. You're free to head over to D&D where things are much simpler.

>>98751954
Thank you
Im a bit disappointed at myself how I havent gotten to writing as much as before

>>98752080
Translators note: The individual only reads Marvelslop and thinks no other comics outside there exists.

>>98752082
Nosferatu in VtR can still use the Seductive Beast (whatever it's called) and it's noted that they don't stop being repulsive even while the victim finds themselves being seduced. In the past I've run it as a sort of deer-in-headlights effect. The victim sees the monstrosity lurking towards them, but finds themselves captivated by the eyes, the confidence, the ease of the grip on the arms. They're frozen by the realisation that their body wants this, but they can't muster a breath to scream or the energy to swing a fist. Why are they craning their neck, offering a wrist?

>>98751459
Fianna isn't in anyway insulting or appropriative. It's literally the name for a warband warrior lodge in iron to early age Ireland. It's not a god, a sacred or taboo term or something that could be interpreted as a slur like the issue with Wendigo or Uktena? It's about the most appropriate name an Irish werewolf tribe could have. I grantee you not a single real Irish person had a problem with the term.

W5 fans are even more toxic than the mage ones. Every interaction I've had with one has shown me they are the sort of toxic lefty that exist purely for drama and moralising. They spent all their time whining that Werewolf was bad and needed to be neutered on discord, then they went on to not even buy W5 and the whole thing collapsed 5th edition.

>>98752102
they doubled down on the anarchs being a single sect with member clans after v20 had them be a on the way to turn into a somewhat introspective group who actually been trying to figure out how and if a clanless society would work

they also made the average anarch fine with serial diablerists warcriminals as one of the characters in the gehenna war book is exactly that and she is a anarch hero

>>98749639
>harass some Virtual Adepts
That's the Malkavians' job.
>>98750953
There's also Project Deepwater which is also colluding with the Technocracy but with a "no Syndicate/NWO allowed" sign on the underwater base.

>>98752255
In lore neither is really used as a slur anyways because Uktena is just treated a a wise spirit. The major problem with Wendigo is that its supposed to be a warning and parable about greed and psychopathic behavior and in some folklore, saying its name would invite spiritual possession. Werewolf recontextualizes Wendigo as originally Sasquatch who killed the previous wyrm corrupted wendigo, and uses its reputation to scare the natives into not doing wyrmish things, that and forbidding cannibalism besides ritualistic heart eating. But then again, you could also argue that demon the fallen is also offensive because some ethopian church that split during the byzantine era also believes that speaking of the devil would invite possession and cannonized similar esoteric lore about the elohim.

If there was any legitimate complaints, it would be that the quality of writing greatly varies, because some writers just stick a headdress on an indian from a region that doesn't even have such practices while also giving them the most stereotypical dialogue ever.

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>>98751907
Johnny Racoon's reputation in Elysium never recovered, that's why you don't piss off the harpy
>>98751847
>Not every city has a strong Primogen council, there's a reason I specified strong Princes appointing them
Fair enough, I suppose your example could apply to positions where the Primogeniture is more of a for-show title, but then the prince better be ready to deal with a magnitude of administrative work if he wants to keep those marches loyal, not to mention possible dissent or even those same Primogens sneakily consolidating a better position of power precisely with those isolated kindred. Good fuel for intrigue!