Tard Wrangling EditionPrevious: >>98881998>Newshttps://magic.wizards.com/en/news/announcements/commander-banned-and-restricted-february-9-2026https://magic.wizards.com/en/news/announcements/commander-brackets-beta-update-february-9-2026>Current Banlisthttps://magic.wizards.com/en/banned-restricted-list#commander-banned>Bracket Informationhttps://files.catbox.moe/4tbvzw.pnghttps://files.catbox.moe/r62yfy.png>Former Commander Website: Learn the basics, and read the format philosophy laid down by the rules committeehttps://mtgcommander.net>Card Searchhttps://scryfall.com>Card Statistics: See what everyone else puts in their Commander decks based on what is posted to the Internethttps://www.edhrec.com>Deck List Sites: You can search for decks that other people have made. Authors often have comments that explain their deck strategy and card choiceshttps://www.archidekt.comhttps://www.moxfield.com>Manabase Information: Find out what lands you can add to your deck, sorted by category, based on a chosen color identityhttps://managathering.com>Proxy Guidehttps://pastebin.com/9Xj1xLdM>Preconshttps://magicprecons.comTQ: what are your monoblack decks? bonus points if it doesn't revolve around discard, kill stuff, reanimation, and aristocrats
>TQ Posted it a little while ago but these are my mono Black Commanders
I have never done mono-black in Commander.But on the Magic Arena client I have a brawl deck with Gix, Yawgmoth Praetor as the commando. Also I used to play a mono-black Standard deck that featured Rotting Reggy for a period of time.Also even before that, I had a 'casual kitchen table 4-player 60-card' group years and years ago, and I had a mono-black deck with playsets of Phyrexian obliterator and Garry to finish.So yeah, when I do play mono-black, I prefer aggro.
>>98885558I mainly play it in 99 for my Ghost Council Of Orzhova but I brainstormed using is as a commander.Reanimation and Aristocrats would be there, but I want mostly to focus on self-targetting with Torgaar's ability for massive amounts of resources for Necropotence, Greed etc.
>bonus points if your black deck doesn't do any black deck stuff
Thirty (30) starting life is objectively superior to fourty (40)
>>98885558It's amazing how shitty the Trek set is. I love Star Trek but hate every card in it.
>>98885920The laziness is epitomized in that shitty 7of9, they made damn sure the art has no tits but the mechanic is "she becomes 7/9, lol get it 7of9? lol"
>>98885558tqYahenni featuring abyssal persecutor The deck isn't what it used to be but damn sometimes you just thwap people
>main phases removal>destroys commander instead of another redundant engine (the commander can just be recast next turn)
>>98886084just remove all the engines.
>>98886111I started playing disk again recently and I've been very impressedSame with worn powerstone>stop playing it because it felt outclassed>start playing it again because actually it rocked
>>98886134>Thantiss, Vantress, Lathliss>Lathril, Kathril, Uril, Toxrill>Falthis, Kediss, Sedris, YidrisWe're approaching name saturation.
>>98886134Didn't mean to reply, oops.
How do I actually tune my deck? I gathered up 100+ cards in my commanders color identity some more synergistic than others, plus a variety of removal and ramp but how do I know the ratios of removal to ramp to value card? This is my first time building a deck and Im building a commander thats not very popular
>>98886157You play test it.If it's lagging behind, use more ramp.If it's having trouble dealing with threats, add more interaction
>>98886134disk is based and still not replicated to this day.closest we've got is boompile. card is still a lot of fun.overall I've recently started looking at older edh decklists from 2010-2016 to get some inspiration. still a lot of good shit available.
>>98886180>>98886111For me it's this. It always costs WWW. Can't beat that return.
>>98886111I thought there was a way other than dark steel forge to make it indestructible forever but I can't find itThe aura you can enchant on it die when its tapped
>>98886180decks built competitive back then can still be just as competitive today, bonus for not relying on thoracle.
>>98886237ThisJust won a local No prize cedh tournament with grenzo doomsdayHe's still got it!
>>98886237Yeah as it turns out tutoring Rhystic Study is still the best thing you can do in the format. I wonder why they never powercrept it.
>>98886249Psuede
yo Rakdos Discard is fun as fuck! what are some staples for this archetype? i feel like i don't even need tutors since i get to see so much of my deck from all the draw/discard/exile top
Any advice for my wife's cat deck?https://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/zs-cats-meow/I had the deck running pretty efficiently but started to realize she REFUSES to sac pumped cats to greater good effects, so I slowly started to cut them but now the deck is dogshit compared to where it wasAlso i feel like I both have too much and too few equipment and honestly same goes for cats
Reminder
>>98886314Xdddddddddddddddddd
>>98886197The rates for gaining counters here is probably a bit too good.Putting two +1/+1 counter son a creature typically costs 4 mana and includes sacrificing the land. The cycle from Hobbit alongside Cave of Temptation are easy examples of that. And of course, Great Bay dishing out three counters is pretty major, but drawing two cards on top of that is also something that ends up as really expensive on a land. I think you'd be better off keeping it consistent as a single +1/+1 counter for each land.The downside of Stone Tower would also probably be more reasonable as a token creation effect ala Forbidden Orchard. Giving each opponent any creature from the yard is massive, and decayed doesn't matter much because they just get to bring it back next turn. Giving them some 2/2 decayed zombie tokens is a downside slightly more in line with the other lands. Though Stone Tower doesn't even have as much of a payoff as those.
new precon revealed
>>98886211just put it back in a deck. can't wait to play it again after so long
The decklist for the Auntie Ool pinup goblin tribal.Comments and criticism welcome (not on the topic of the generated images).Order pending the last cards gobanon is making for my request (and the triumph another anon requested, beats peer into the abyss for this deck).
>>98886369New Cat Commander dropped, let's go.Imagine Spot with Liquimetal Torque.
>>98886461Imagine paying RTD prices for disenchant
>>98886328NTA but is this a reasonable ability set for a dimir outlaw commander?
>>98886500No.
>>98886469Does RTD in this case mean Release The Dogs?
What are some unknown but fun commanders you've played with that surprised people?
>>98886500Double Strike isn't withing UB colors, but other than that, seems rather reasonable. Pretty similar to a Francisco Malcolm partner pairing. Needing to hit with two outlaws is a decent way to compensate for making it easier for outlaws to hit face.I'd just swap double strike for first strike, since that still enables some of the tricks you could do with another first strike outlaw to get more triggers.
>>98886328Thank you for the input. I think I'll go with reducing the counters. I'll maybe also make them all enchantment lands.I honestly thought Stone Tower was busted, tapping for three mana after transforming. But I guess I can nudge forward and reveal my fully autistic infinite tutoring on a land. Please tell me this isn't hopelessly broken.
>>98886876lol sure oath of druids enabler on a land and 4 mana vamp tutor on a land yeah sure why notoh even better it's repeatable vamp tutor on the flip side
>nooo you can't play over costed 2 for 1s
>>98886928Who are are quoting?
i get the anons doing proxies but what the hell is with custom card anons in here all the time? there is nothing inherent to edh that makes it more acceptable to purely invented bullshit than any other format
>>98886958it's not real magic, it's the format for shitters who don't want to/can't play real magic. therefore, it's pretty congruent that fake magic card makers would frequent edhg and not the real mtg general.
>>98886958EDH is a casual looney tunes free jazz formatIt's probably the only official format where custom cards could really see play outside custom set drafts/cubes
>>98886958he's a lonely guy with no friends to share his custom cards with. same as proxy faggot. please dont bully them.
>>98886958you lost, custom cards is edh now.if you don't like it you can leave, just like the others
I love this card so much. What's a good commander for him?
>>98886966>>98886968It's the only non-standard format you can expect to find a game for anywhere magic is played.So, if you hate UB shit but still want to play magic, EDH is the best format to build in.
>>98886987any commander with blue.
>>98886994That really doesn't track and I don't understand what that has to do with either of the posts you replied to
>>98887002Then you have a problem with comprehending English.Also you don't seem to understand the formats either, the only guaranteed formats at any location are standard, draft and edh, draft being a subset of standard.anything playing the current or recent sets is going to forever have UB bullshit in it now that mtg is promised to be half-UB.Now that isn't to say you won't find UB shit in EDH, but you're guaranteed to find it in standard and half the time in draft.So EDH is the best choice for someone who wants to guarantee they can play anywhere but who also doesn't want to guarantee that they'll see spiderman, star trek, etc... at every match in every deck.How is this difficult to understand?
>>98886987>What's a good commander for him?Assuming you can tolerate playing a UB commander, of course
>>98887025This is quite upsetting because as far as the comics go superior really was the best spiderman arc. it just doesnt have a place in magic.Congratulations to wizards to find a way to make me grimace at the sight of superior.
>>98886958Sometimes it's fun to make custom cards even if they look bad and everyone can tell they aren't real
>>98887041>everyone can tell they aren't realAnon, Spongebob is in the game, unless you memorize every set it's literally impossible to tell without searching it up that a card is or isn't real.
is this a good card
>>98887053It's an old card with peak magic art, therefore it's good.
>>98887024Yeah that's not true though because EDH is THE ub format. It has more ub going into it than any other format and is one of the few formats you can really ub-max in. You will run into tons of players playing ub out the ass, unlike any competitive formatBut more importantly what does any of that have to do with either post you replied to
>>98886943Extremely salty people at my lgs who's One Ring ended up in exile somehow
>>98887053"Aw gee I sure hope my opponents are playing monoblack spellslinger"
>>98886958One guy same fagging and mods don't care
>>98887025No, I don't think I'm going to run doctor octopus spider-man as my commander.
>>98887061You fail to observe the important factor here.UB is optional in edh, it is requisite in standard and half the sets you get to draft mean you'll be purely playing ub with nothing else.you can play edh while telling the FF fag to fuck off, you can't play standard without ub being involved.
>>98887053Very playable card but you really need to have a metagame that is heavy in black, of course, just like the Veils
carpet of flowers :3
>>98887087>tfw you "accidentally" spill your drink all over the playmat of the dude who brought spiderman woops my bad
>>98886987Flip jace
>>98887096If this happens to anyone ever it's their own fault for choosing to play at any table where food and drinks are present at all.
>>98887096>oh let me help you wipe that up>knocks over model glueOops
>>98886212You probably think about some memes with the Guardian Beast? Just find a way to make it indestructible, instead.
>>98887127I could have sworn it was a white enchantment but maybe my playgroup just didnt know how to read
behold the best earthbending commander
>>98887177Just bought the precon but I wonder if it'll be annoying to play now
>>98886958>there is nothing inherent to edh that makes it more acceptable to purely invented bullshit than any other formatsure there is, it's a casual format
>>98886876For some reason I didn't even register that it was tapping for WUG instead of W, U, or G.I think you can make that aspect of the card work, but transforming it would definitely need to go back to 4 mana. Ideally making it a tap ability as well so that it doesn't instantly refund you most of the mana.Tutoring like that is way too far, especially if transforming isn't going to be a tap ability. 3 mana and you immediately set up your next draw by just tapping to search before transforming.The Scry effect on the previous version felt like a far better way to play around with the library flipping idea.
>>98887192it has a higher number of cards that shuffle your library than my preference (eg Farseek), which is to be expected from a lands deck.it has some cool cards, though.
>>98887177Surely you're going to put this guy in his deck
>>98887214I need to get better at shuffling but I refuse to do the riffle and damage my cards
>>98887214I try to make my deck have less than 5 cards (including fetchlands) that shuffle your library. I fucking hate picking up a 100 card deck and shuffling it 10 times a game. Id rather run shitty versions of cards and skip on staples if they make you shuffle your library. Once I set down my deck and its been cut I should almost never be searching through my deck. Also most tutors are cancerous and lead to samey game states in a format meant to be about variety so the less tutors the better. I dont mind a tutor or two but if you're the type of stupid cunt who Vampiric Tutors on the end step of the player's turn before yours and then spend 3 minutes searching and shuffling your library I might just punt you in the nuts under the table.
>>98887196cEDH
There should be a format less casual than EDH but not as dead as standard while also being even more fun
I have more respect for cEDH fags than I do bracket 4. Bracket 4 is like a grown man playing in a little league baseball group.
>>98887252I wish I knew you IRL. Oh, the trolling that would be had! Also, losing out on good cards just because you don't like shuffling makes you a low IQ retard.
>>98887283Or I just dont like wasting time in an admittedly casual format. It does nothing for me to win a game of EDH, therefore I only run bracket 1-2 decks and I cut down on shuffle effects because Im not going to waste my time optimizing play in a format where my opponent is playing a fucking precon. Also much easier to hand a deck to a new player with few to no shuffle effects because theres less info they need to know. They dont need to be thinking about whats in the deck, just whats in hand and whats on board.
>>98887262and if people were posting custom cards meant to be played in cedh, then that would indeed be quite silly
Temur Enchantress, now with Parallax Tide tech
>>98887308>They dont need to be thinking about whats in the deck, just whats in hand and whats on board.So you don't want new players to know the potential of their deck, to mana ramp, to find answers? I see, you're just a shitty low-power pubstomper that doesn't like others to get better, good to know!
>>98887337I like how you keep assuming the worst intentions on my part. No, im not a low power pubstomper and often Ill play suboptimally to let a new players deck function, I will wait on removal and play my deck slower to let them get going. And in general a new player is going to get far too overwhelmed with tutors, especially in a 99 card singleton deck, most of the time theyll end up grabbing the "wrong" card anyway because they dont have context to know what card they need to search for. Also not every new player haa the desire to develop into some hyper competitive spike bracket 4-5 player. Some will always be casual players who just want to have fun. Thats where I am.
Commander is the mode where I get to be a Timmy and Johnny.I can just try and come up with kinda creative "new" decks my friends and the people at the LGS haven't seen yet and try to do well with them without going tryhard. Just having a good time with unusual but decent combos and interactions or weird keywords that people forgot.
>>98887334Thank fuck this isnt bant otherwise I might be tempted to play it. I do wish they'd print an appetizing bant commander for enchantress at some point though, blue has some nice and unique enchantments I'd like a chance at playing.
>making 10 decks>have to stop theory crafting and actually finish one tonightNooooo I want to keep wasting time!!!!
>>98886987ice bitch
>>98887224what part of nog is black green
>>98887224>cards spoiling the show Im 4 seasons into watchingFucking shit, i hate this set
>>98887461He's a hippie in later seasons so greenHe's a capitalist so THAT'S BAD AND BLACK
>>98886298Firstly, there are two decks in this one deck.Remove Nazan and all the equipment. Might be a tough pill to swallow, but doing so will work better.Then get better cats that are more than just keyword creatures, like Arahbo, Kaheera, Bast, and the changelings that blow up stuff. Seth's tiger makes people upset at times.Then get some more card draw. Luckily you're in green and you're commander pumps without having to be on the battlefield. Cards like Lifestreams Blessings, Return of the Wild speaker, Rishkar's Expertise, etc. you don't actually have to sac your creatures in Green. Get some actual ramp rather than the enchantment ramp and more of it.Heralds horn is ass and why is Parhelion there?
>>98886111>this card gets played>i ask if anyone else has read ringworld>get blank stares>mention that nevinyrral is larry niven backwards>more blank staresGod fucking damn, I miss when magic was played exclusively by white nerds
>>98886298Why does she refuse to sac?
>>98887490I'm reading through LOTR and the set spoiled a ton of stuff
>>98887560Why does she refuse to redeem?
>>98887611What? If it's a sacrifice cat deck, and she doesn't sacrifice, the deck doesn't work. I just want to know why she thought not doing what the deck is meant to is a good idea.
>>98887622woman thing
>>98886958Yeah dude, they're really taking up space from all those decks that are being posted and friendly but intense discussion about deck types. They should be banned so we have more room in the thread for pissbabies to cry about UB and proxies.
>>98887560She's a girl and likes the cute cats
>>98887252based. Brian Kibler does the same and still wins more than 25%.
>>98887087Speaking of telling stupid retards to fuck off, why don't you go dilate in your dead thread. It's going to hit page 10 soon if you fags keep coming here instead of using your designated hugbox. >>98829219
>>98887535Is there really enough good cats to go pure turn sideways and ignore all the equipment cats? Also the enchantment ramp is part of the Armored Skyhunter package and I don't think its impeding the deck at all, people don't respect how good wild growth isAnd parhelion is a pet card, I've been trying to get rid of it for generations let's see if she finally cracks
Can someone post an equipment deck? I want to check some ratios out
>>98887684>Is there really enough good cats to go pure turn sideways and ignore all the equipment cats?Cat is a wildly oversupported tribe. You have almost 250 to choose from alone in GW alongside all sorts of anthem and counters effects.
Even though Tricky Terrain is approaching the 100 dollar mark I personally think it's still a great value pickup, it has multiple landfall classics that are around the 10-20 dollar mark plus the cedh staple Talon Gates of Madara which is 40 dollars by itselfOverall the deck gives you about 200 dollars worth of singles as well as the collector sample, a fantastic pickup imo
How did you win your last game? For me it was this big guy cheated into play thanks to Pattern of Rebirth. Had Cauldron of Souls out and a Loxodon Warhammer so I was taking over the game, and they kept removing him but he just came back twice as strong. Gotta play artifact removal, folks!
>>98887727I cast vandalblast with lattice while crosis was out3x conceded on the spot
>theyre still trying to sell their overpriced uno game in the secret lair store
I don't get it
>>98887759You wouldn't, chud.
>>98886298If you're willing to shill out 40 bucks for a kitty, ocelot pride is pretty absurd even if you aren't focusing on lifegain or tokens, it's a self contained cat making factory. Wild growth and overgrowth are great, but fertile ground is a little less so without untaps or enchantress stuff. Too lazy to do the proper math on it, but just on a feels basis how often is Armored Skyhunter hitting? Can probably get away with replacing fertile ground with a rampant growth or a utopia sprawl for 3 of the one mana land auras. They're also worse than rampant growths into board wipes as they get got but lands tend to stick around, but as this deck is pretty soft to board wipes anyway (and you're probably not likely to see many if you're playing kitties) then exchanging bounce back potential for raw power is fine imo. Consider Tribute to the World Tree for a tiny amount of card draw and also making tokens better, the mana base seems to fuck enough to support playing it consistently.If she'll allow it, consider Felidar Cub for generic cat card + enchantment removal.Deck could obviously play cavern of souls but that probably doesn't matter much.
>>98887736kek. Crosis is definitely a Chad general.
>>98886314this is so quirky! bean me up, leotardo!
>>98887684Yes. I have Arahbo mono white cat deck and it does very well even without green. Usually overwhelming the board turn 5/6 with how many big cats it can make and the play pattern is pretty easy. Made it for my girl too lmao. If mono white can do it, selesnya can also do it.
>>98887779At this point its my wife's deckIma chang it out
>>98887834In that case you might as well throw a "sword of -" card or two in there, whichever ones your wife likes. Pro green and pro white ones are rather anti synergy with the commander, but the effects can be worth it. If you want to commit to the equipment subtheme thing.
>>98887794List?
>>98887861The green ones don't interact with ahrabo very well and I'm playing some others in paper atm
I like Trek but set sucks ass man
>>98887177Based Space Turd.
>>98887727Oh, y'know
Playing the gay fish on Friday.
>>98887999how many sphinx's commands did u put in it
>>98886298At a glance, my suggestion would be more card draw. I've noticed a similar problem with a friend's Rin and Seri deck, where they ramp and get out a bunch of cats and tokens just fine, but then a single boardwipe just makes it impossible to rebuild.
>>98888006I was only able to get two copies...
We're so back bros
>>98887870https://manabox.app/decks/CnOc67hqRl2AjsB9erAVpw
>cast this on Bello>it doesn't actually turn off his ability because 'muh layers' Okay so that's like clearly a flaw in the game and needs to be fixed?Like what the fuck, that's just utter nonsense and honestly makes Magic a worse game.
>>98888220How does it not turn off his ability when it clearly states the card loses all abilities?
>>98888152Wait, isn't this just sen triplets?
>>98888224phone user spotted
>>98888222I literally don't know man it makes no sense, but look it up and you'll find that to be the case.Apparently because of the way layers work, some abilities actually still apply even if abilities are disabled, which to me just means that Magic is actually like a very bad game.
>>98888229
>>98888220I don't know who cheated you out of a win on commander night but bello does indeed lose all abilities if imprisoned in the moon
Am I actually onto something here with a haste deck or am I wasting my time? The idea is to be heavily aggressive and have a play every turn, even if I get board wiped then my creatures are cheap enough. I like the idea of always having something to play on every turn, and the simplicity of the deck.https://moxfield.com/decks/9eD2giyaLUKL1souMdAp2A
>>98888242Dude literally google "imprison in the moon bello" and you'll find people smarter than me explain it.Apparently because Bello's effect applies in an earlier layer than Imprison, it actually just happens anyway. Like i said this game is dogshit.
>magic is bad because in a casual meme format the rules form edge casesCommander is literally not magic
>>98888251No, the card is specifically designed to shut down anything, google is just giving you the results of a lot of idiots agreeing.
>>98888251>>98888242>>98888230Because of his layer, Bello's static effect only continues to function until the end of turn when hit by Imprison in the Moon.Once a new turn starts, his ability ceases to function since the card no longer has that ability.
>be me>test out decks in my own pod where i try and play all decks fairly even though i know all cards in hands>keep track of this in a spreadsheet>make adjustments to decks based on thisOverall I think it works well and is fun. My decks are pretty strong. My winrate when in real pods is around 50%. Anyone else do this?
>>98888258This isn't a commander exclusive interaction.>>98888261I mean you're literally just wrong though, layer 4 has priority over layer 6.
>>98888269That's not what my favorite instragrame magic celebrity told me.
>>98888251anon that is retarded. this would make "loses all abilities" one of the most useless lines of text in the game. whoever told you this was probably confusing the effect with what happens when you imprison in the moon on an enchantment creature other than bello.
>>98888285I've relied on Chat GPT to help with things like this at the kitchen table, and it turns out it was getting even simple things wrong 50% of the time. Anytime I challenged it's opinion it would either change it's opinion or double down. You think someone would have made an AI of the rules and all the cards and rulings by now.
>>98888285But it even says it right in your image, Bello's effect is on a higher layer (4) than imprison (6).
>>98888269Bello's ability is not "until end of turn", it checks every time whether or not it is his controller's turn. That's why you dome the rat to fog and deny him draw.
>>98888301Again, it's only for the turn. If you Flash in Imprison during your opponent's turn, it's too late to stop Bello's ability since it's already active and remains so for the rest of the turn.If you hit Bello with Imprison during your turn, then pass to the opponent with Bello, Bello's ability never activates because the card no longer has any ability to activate.
>>98888310No that's just not true, because Bello's multi-layer passive effect on other cards starts on layer 4, it outprioritized Imprison's layer 6 effect.Literally look this up, you will not find a different answer anywhere because that is how this shit ass game works.
>>98886958>my card didnt come out of wotc's printers so it's good>ok my card didnt come out of wotc's r&d so it's good too>uhh my midwit brains thinks this is wrong somehow!RetardEnjoy the consequences of your proxyfaggotry
>>98888331Fucking hell, when the opponent's turn starts, if Imprison is cast on him, then he does not get his ability.Some dumb fucks on leddit are not the absolute authority on the fucking game.
>Untap>Upkeep>Draw>Hmmm.>Hmmmm>*flick, flick, flick.">Uh...>Okay. I play a mountain. >Then, uh. >Um>Uh>I tap a green, a red, and aaaaaa>Uh>Blue>*flick*>*flick*>Uh>*flick*>Wait. What does everyone have on the board?>Yeah.>Hmm.>Yeah. I'll play this.>Theeeen.>Ahhh.>I'll play...>Hmmmm...>Tap one more red, and another red, then.>*flick*>*flick*>Oh.>Uhhhh>Oh...>No... wait, can we roll that all back? I put down the wrong landFor the love of god, take 10 seconds to plan out your next turn after you pass before you go on your phone.
>>98888245bros?
>>98888338Well yeah it does nothing on other people's turns because that's how Bello's ability itself works, but that has nothing to do with layers.As long as Bello's effect is active (on your turn) it overwrites Imprison.
>>98887999Thought I was having a stroke for a sec reading this card and then I realized I was confusing it for a different big sea monster with basically the same frame treatment. Why did WotC do this
>>98888352mark rosewater hates you specifically
>>98888344why did the elf change the goblins clothes if she was going to strangle her anyway?
From WotC's official rulings page:>(7/26/2024)>If an effect causes Bello to lose all abilities during your turn, its effect will still apply to non-Equipment artifacts and non-Aura enchantments you control.https://gatherer.wizards.com/BLC/en-us/1/bello-bard-of-the-brambles
>>98888356She wanted to see her naked
>>98888351If Imprison is on Bello when his controller's turn starts, his ability does not activate because Bello does not have any ability to activate, per Imprison's text.Full stop.Anyone who told you otherwise is cheating you.Imprison only does not remove Bello's effect if the effect is active when Imprison is cast.
>>98888360>Anyone who told you otherwise is cheating you.Literally Wizards of the Coast is telling me this >>98888358
>>98886461i been out of the mtg for over a decade but i figured using Daring Thief, an Ornithopter or thoper token, and Liquidmetal Torque would be funny though i suppose any artifact that isn't useful on it's own could be used as the theft currency in the combo.
>>98888349Is there any actual payoff for haste in this deck beyond just, I try and hit you in the face?
>>98888362>DURING YOUR TURNMeaning Bello's ability is already active.Fuck.Once the turn ends, Bello's ability is no longer active.Once the controller's turn comes around again, if Imprison is still on Bello, it does not activate.
>>98888358yes, DURING YOUR TURNthat means you STARTED the turn with bello having abilities so that ability still applies until that turn ends.After that (since imprison does not state "until end of turn" bello has no abilities, ever, period.So, that loss of abilitiy having occurred not during your turn (but on a previous turn) means: Bello. Has. No. Ability.
>>98888368>>98888369It says "during your turn" because that's when Bello's ability is active you retarded faggots, this is just how layers work.Imprison doesn't start outprioritizing Bello's higher layer ability at literally any time, passive abilities check for layering at all times.
>>98888365Well no
I miss card design like this. I wish they made more of these. Anyways, which one is your favorite? For me it's the WB and UR.
>>98888369"During your turn" is not an activated ability though, it merely happens, and because it's a type-changing effect, it overrides ability removing effects.
>>98888374Jesus, you're fucking stupid.We're telling you that if Bello's ability is active when Imprison is cast, then it does not turn it off, due to the arbitrary bullshit that is Layers. The ability stays active until the end of the Bello player's turn. HOWEVER, once the turn passes around back to Bello's controller again, Bello no longer has any ability on any Layer.
>>98888378I don't really see the point then, you're doing going to be burning down 3 other players with this deck in bracket 4.
This card fucking sucks. I cast it but my opponents just kept using their lands like normal because of layers.
>>98888387Yeah but you're wrong and I've already told you why, there is no point where the effect of Imprison starts overwriting a higher layer effect because at all times passive abilities check layering, going into a new turn cycle doesn't somehow change this.Bello's ability doesn't stay active because it's a lingering effect like a sorcery that says "until end of turn X". It stays active because it's always checked in layering before Imprison's effect is checked.
>>98888394>bad in casual games because everyone plays alot of basics>bad in cedh because 3 mana is too high of a cost for a mediocre stax piece Sad!
>>98888404Blood moon is still mld btw
>>98888404It's good in casual games where 2 or 3 people are playing relatively weak decks with bad mana bases and there's one guy that has a 3000 dollar manabase in his 5c goodstuff pile, so you shut him off and the weaker decks continue to do their thing.
Do commanders have a chance to be put back into this zone if you use here ability? Don't they actually not change zones like with Come Back Wrong?
>>98888417if your opponent leaves the commander in their yard you can vraska it
>>98888417Yes, Commanders can be put back into the Command Zone from the Graveyard (which needs to be hit to complete the "dies" effect) as a state-based action before Vraska can put her activated ability onto the stack.Come Back Wrong can steal commanders because it's all done in one continual motion with no breaks like an "if X, then pay Y" situation like Vraska.
Most fun Boros commander coming through
>>98888387That's not how that works man. You just apply layers top to bottom. >bello was imprisoned at the start of turn>therefore he has no ability>therefore he cannot affect layer 4That's not how that works.613.1. The values of an object’s characteristics are determined by starting with the actual object. For a card, that means the values of the characteristics printed on that card. For a token or a copy of a spell or card, that means the values of the characteristics defined by the effect that created it. Then all applicable continuous effects are applied in a series of layers in the following order: >layer 1 ... layer 7At all times, to figure out what characteristics a card has, you:1) read the cardboard2) apply the layers, in order, one layer at a timeThe game doesn't "remember" that bello lost his ability on a previous check. He always has his ability on the cardboard, and that ability always gets wiped out on layer 6. However since bello applies his thing on layer 4, your artifacts and enchantments are still always creatures.
>>98888216Tnx
>>98888431That's not my girl...
>>98888431I forgot how fun he was until tonight.
>>98888460he's shit though 3dog more like 3SHITS
>>98888441I prefer this one
>>98888487Your face is 3shits
Kira's ability to manipulate myriad stuff is neat
>>98888344Just go on your own phone?
>>98888380Nobody uses this one and that's a shame because it can be really oppressive on the right board
I had a guy get mad at me the ither day because he says mana dorks are too powerful for bracket 3
>>98888380>>98888504I'd use them more if it weren't for the hybrid rule
>>98888511I was told this was "too powerful" for a 2
>>98888527Oops
>>98888516Shadowmoor is a dangerously cucked block because of how hybrid works in commander. Pick related would be awesome in NuReaper King and all of the avatars would be bangers in mono color devotion decks. Alas, nerds hate change.
Yes, ANY half-decent green commander is indeed too powerful for casual games, green is just too powerful of a colorWe've been over this a hundred times
>>98888536Its not even my commander, its in the 99.
>blue is smallcock>green is valuefag landshit>white is just regular shitrakdos stay winning
>>98888536NO
>>98887210Final batch for today. But I think it's getting there.
>>98888550i don't care what anyone says, Return to Ravnica block had the best Rakdos flavor cards, some psycho circus shit.
>>98888536Spoken like true bluefag
>Listening to a troglodyte say that storm is exactly the same as oops because they're both combo decks that win out of nowhereI feel like I should play oops against this guy to demonstrate the difference but it would realistically ruin the experience for the other two players.
>>98888624It's the difference between a deterministic combo and a nondeterministic engine. Hard for retards to grasp the difference, and even if you directly showed him the difference by smashing his teeth in with oops he would just complain more and continue to not understand.
>>98888624>>98888631What exactly do you expect from the "no one left behind" education system?
>>98888631>Play enchantment of super rape>Solve it>Untap with it twice>"wtf this deck won out of nowhere there's just no way to counter it unless you let me pick my deck after you, or convince everyone to hard focus you"Yes I am mad.
>>98888660Hilarious that that was your engine and they still complained, the>untap with it twicepart is absurd. you had to burn 4 instants and sorceries on a non storm turn and live another turn cycle with it in play before it did anything beyond be a reducer. frankly even if you managed to storm off on your turn starting with only lands i wouldnt even be mad because that's impressive more than anything.
I feel like my landbase is dogshit; what should I change?https://moxfield.com/decks/m9YAgWb3IEST7yWQ-b00kA
>pov: you're playing blue
>>98888614>>98888536
>>98888697Conduit Pylon, Hidden Grotto, and Surveillance Room should be in your mana base somewhere. Replace a basic or two and/or take out Unknown Shores for one. The three lands are exact copies of each other. ETB surveil 1, tap for butthole mana, and filter for colored. All of them only cost like a quarter and enter untapped.Consider depletion lands like Hickory Woodlot. ETBs tapped but allows you to tap for GG twice before it sacs itself, letting you power out your broken shit. There's one for each color.Play Malevolent Rumble. See pic related.Consider Arid Archway somewhere in there. I think it's shit but I don't think it's much worse than shrine of the forsaken gods.Otherwise, I don't know. Have you goldfished with it at all yet? There's proper math you can do to see if your landbase is shit or not but I don't feel like it.
>>98888697Moxfield literally has a button that gives you a perfect manabase bro
>>98888697Oh, and play giant's boulder. Very good card for what you're trying to do.
>>98887999>>98888352WotC has long since given up on the notion that cards should be identifiable across the table. Got in the way of the profits.
>>98888780oh that's a sick card, insta-add
Okay, what actually is the best landfall commander? And don't say Lumra
>>98888827And that is exactly why the occurence of proxies at the table has exploded, they ceased to make the aesthetic of the game and the identity of the game something that is valuable, and so many players have asked themselves "why should I pay to gamble on cardboard when this is the result?" and then discovered professional printing services so then asked themselves "why not?" and found no good objection.It seems to me that the advent of commonplace pro-print proxies and the advent of UB near completely coincide with each other, and the growth of both things also seem to coincide with each other.Magic has never been anything but printed cardboard, respect of the IP and the playerbase is what made legitimacy valuable, as wizards loses respect for both the IP and the players, the cardboard loses its value as an artificially scarce object.
I would happily pay up to about 5 bucks per card if it's printed on good quality cardboard. Wotc now uses tissue paper cardboard and cards are hundreds of dollars. So, I get them printed on better paper for cheaper instead. I just want to play a board game with game pieces.
>>98888936The irony is that good quality isn't that expensive, the worst printing service I've seen (good product bad price) is like $1.50 per card, and good ones are out there for $0.50 per card.
>>98888936I read a tweet on Japanese twitter about a guy who's LGS refused to buy his copy of a moderately valuable foil card because of the fact that it was NOT pringling gave it away that it was a fake lmao
>tfw when green mages can finally play grixis
Need to revisit this at some point and make it more dynamic, but 3 characters with 3 different racial traits makes the AI shit itself. >>98888925I'm sure that's part of it, but I think its more that people don't want to pay high money for expensive cards in their casual format.Compounded with the fact that "CEDH proxies everything, so if its okay for them, then its okay for my bracket 2!"Mostly still, people just want to have fun and not spend a lot.
>>98888697You can always add more basics and play green ramp
>>98888437NtA but if you really wanted Bello out of the picture without changing zones, the best option would be to like...flip him face down? That gets rid of all his og cardboard text and leaves him as a 2/2 with no abilities or whatever the manifest base stats are
>>98889067Yes, or phase him out.
>>98888936>I just want to play a board game with game pieces.then play chess dumdum
How is this not a game changer
>>98888976I think piggy-elf would look better as a blue beast girl
>>98888925>Magic has never been anything but printed cardboardcorrect>respect of the IP and the playerbase is what made legitimacy valuablealso correct>as wizards loses respect for both the IP and the players, the cardboard loses its value as an artificially scarce object.incorrect; this is where you get it wrongmtg's value isn't in its godawful shitty UW, it's in its mechanicsit has ALWAYS been its mechanicsproof? just look at how the proxyfag shudders at the idea of custom cards with unheard of rules even though both of them use fake cardboard>>98888976>Compounded with the fact that "CEDH proxies everything, so if its okay for them, then its okay for my bracket 2!"Mostly still, people just want to have fun and not spend a lot.you're close, but really it's about casualfags having no restraint at all; proxying OGduals in your b2 pod only invites more 'stapleslop'
>>98889111>>98888976Oh! or as a black anthro type catgirl, to match the mana colors
Is she still playable in an angels/lifegain deck?
>>98889140>do nothing 5drop beatstick in the 99 so it can't even do commander damagewith enough stax, she might still get there
>>98889140Totally fine. Ideally you'd find some way to get her Vigilance. So like Akroma's Memorial.
>>98889155>>98889148>>98889140Protection from Demons and Dragons is so underrated. First strike, flying and lifelink is just a bonus at that point. She won't win you games, but she will buy you time or prevent someone else from winning.
>>98889159Yeha, Demons aren't a hyper popular tribe but good to be protected from. Dragons are the second biggest Timmy tribe after Dinosaurs so protection from them is always useful.
>>98889140Given how awful most angels are she's well ahead of the curve.
>>98889164Against timmy dragon tribal the text is very relevant, and those decks are rather common that you'll probably see one at every commander night. But you also have to consider that they've printed quite a few just generically good value dragons and demons that will appear in other decks, and she'll be covered from them too.5 mana do nothing is pretty embarrassing sure, but as far as 5 mana do nothings go she's got a lot going for her.
>>98887719it's trash
>>98888697It looks like you used the moxfield manabase maker thing, and it has thoroughly fucked up your manabase even more than it was before. You now have next to no butthole mana sources in your manabase and there's no way you've got enough butthole generators to support your commander's main gimmick or even null elemental blast. Try again with more gusto. I think the surveil filter lands are much better than many of those tap lands.
>>98888697Also play nulldrifter, i love my boy nulldrifter.
>>98885558I built mono black demons with Shadowborn Apostles to fuel the engine. It's a lot of fun and can be very explosive
>>98889228See, I would have agreed with you if you said that the face commanders were trash (they are)Tatyova and Uro (included in the deck), however, are both very strong commanders and all you really need to make those two pop off is add a few more cheap ramp pieces
>>98887759That looks nothing like John de Lancie
>>98886369Oh boy gotta get started on my Whoopi Goldberg commander deck!
>>98888772Is Moxfeild really the best deck maker website. I use archidekt but it seems kinda laggy at times.
>>98889377Archidekt has been great for me. I want to try moxfield, but there doesn't seem to be a way to transfer your decks there 1:1.
>>98889377Moxfield has been good to me, I really like the instant land base buttons and other such packages they have
>>98887224goes great in my "all racial slurs and innuendo" deck
>>98889108how is esper sentinel not a gchow is the great henge not a gchow is trouble in pairs not a gchow is doomsday not a gchow is mystic remora not a gchow is deflecting swat not a gcfuck you, that's how
>>98887224The ferengi in this set have been massive flavor fails. Yes they're greedy jew caricatures who are willing to cheat and swindle, but they have very rules and a very defined moral system they rigidly adhere to. They're thoroughly Orzhov coded.
>>98889423Eh ritual for +10 doesn't seem that good let's leave it in.
>>98888976I'd still use it
>>98889423>esper sentinelmeh>the great hengeit's ok i guess>trouble in pairsLOL>doomsdayshould probably be a gc, sure. but if you can win with a doomsday pile that doesn't use any gcs you deserve to, it's hard enough without thoracle against 1 guy resolving doomsday against 3 is practically suicide.>mystic remoramuch worse than rhystic, gets much better the higher power you go and scales accordingly with the power level of the table>deflecting swatred should have something.
>>98889431nailing the borg correctly comes first so for the sake of limited the ferengi will have to take one for the team, simple as that
>>98889511red has mana geyser and that's more than it deserves
>>98889511Red has the ability to ignore any mana cost larger than 2. I think that's already enough.
My face on the left seeing Leeta on this card. UBoobs win again.
>>98889630romchads winning quarkcucks can't even tap treasures for mana
>>98889630UB won
>>98889735me on the left
Green Giant 3GLegendary Creature - GiantYou can't sacrifice food tokens.At the beginning of each upkeep, create a food token.3/3would you play it
>>98889758Strictly worse Ninja Pizza and that's not a joke.
>>98888344Stop gob abuse.
>>98889377Yes. I've tried other sites but nothing organizes and is as easily readable as Moxfield. It's not even close.
it feels to me imo there's a lot of nontoken food cards but much less treasures and clues and no non-token maps
Mox and lotus should be card types
Is there any way to make this card a decent take? I like it but I cant find anything it synergizes with.
surely this is what Gavin wants players to do right
>>98890042looks good to me
>>98890042That was pretty funny honestly
>>98890042I cuckled lol
>>98890070*chuckled*, I CHUCKLED. FUCK
>>98889254Post link. This sounds cool
>>98890070I bet you did
>>98885558haha tard wrangler
>>98886461>Liquimetal Torquei sleep>Liquimetal Coatingreal land destruction shit
>>98890042I have had enough of your games Q!
>>98885558>Three wizards found themselves in what looked like a normal swamp.>The first was a master of artifice and wore an elaborate mechanical red and blue robe that whirred and buzzed as he walked.>The second was a master of nature and light, fused with the oakflesh of a tree, and everywhere he walked beasts great and small would follow behind.>The final wizard wore a technicolour suit of armor that was as dazzling as it was expensive; no one knew what this wizard was capable.>As three exchanged pleasantries, showing off the various trinkets they've collected from the other planes, they heard a soft whistling.>"What song was that? I know it from somewhere." The technicolour wizard remarked.>Behind the group they heard something even more unusual, someone running through the swamp at top speed.>Before they had time to adjust, they realized the swamp had them in it's murky grasp, and there was no way they could flee from whatever approached.>"Oh my god." The artificer remarked. "Is that a shirtless man in a shrek mask?">The song in the background, All-star by Smashmouth intensifies. This hulking man was singing along completely off tempo and out of key.>It cant be, it's the fucking Walls of Jericho! The technicolour wizard is stuck up to his neck in the swamp.>Oh the humanity, the stone cold stunner! The artificer is down for the count. >Only the master of nature and light remains, his woodland creatures are flying through the air. What in gods name is happening?>No, that's impossible, he's waterboarding that poor wizard in the swamp, just let him die already!>... and he's saying something?>"This is my swamp, and you're here forever." He hissed before drowning the nature wizard in the swamp with his bare hands.>"Ogres are like onions; when you bite one, you'll cry".This is the "playing magic with me experience" as described by my lgs.
My Melee deck inches ever closer to being viable.
What are some commanders for Shrek fan
Full Shrek UB set when?
>>98890192Well, shrek themed or ones I play?
>>98887053I have it in my self mill golgari deck so I can just chuck it in the grave if no one is on black
>>98887334>card draw>also wincon cause of burn>AND also it adds counters to sagasthey couldn't think of a 4th thing to add? This is so weak and underdesigned. At the very least he could have been a 6/5
>>98887727The strongest player took out the other two and I channeled this for x=7 after I had fogged him the turn before and he had like 6 life after all of this, feels kinda meh winning the game after doing literally fucking nothing
>changes the game massively>not a game changerWhat gives?
>>98890307why would it change anything? imo we just show eachother our cards anyway as long as the judge isn't looking
Gobanon has convinced me to try a Standard goblin tribal deck to use his proxies.
I think the flavor ended up nicely here. Since black has a hard time removing artifacts.
>>98890041There's a handful of avenues I see, but none of them are particularly amazing.First and most obvious is finding easy sources of Red mana. Firebending creatures would be pretty good for that.Second would be damage doublers, but you specifically need more universal ones since you don't control the lands. Sawhorn Nemesis or Curse of Bloodletting and Fiendish Duo are more ideal there for not also doubling the damage you take.Third would be ways to copy the ability. Battlemage's Bracers or Illusionist's Bracers can let you load up multiple lands at once. Zirda as a companion would also be worth mentioning there for the cost reduction, but that's more build-around and clashes with some other options.Fourth is more obviously some stax or pillowfort effects to drag out the game so opponents are spending more turns with their lands on fire. Cards like Paradox Haze would also fall into this where you can give someone extra upkeeps to multiply the burn.The fifth and most niche interaction I can find would be using cards like Phyresis or Glistening Oil on an opponent's creature land in order to have the blaze damage become infect damage. But you'd need a way to animate an opponent's land permanently, and even then there's a chance they just sacrifice it once they see what you're up to. Personally I just stuck this card in my own mono-R burn list because I like it and I didn't worry about the efficiency as much. It serves as an okay mana sink if nothing else.
Any deckbuild helpers out there? Wondering if there are any cuts/adds to make to this list. It's the Rakdos Vampires/Discard from >>98886295https://archidekt.com/decks/27873868/old_gods_new_blood
>Trek's 5 color commanders are Q and the man who decked Q
>>98888368>>98888387I can never make out the thought process behind these retarded takes. Maybe you're just retardedBello no longer has any ability? Lmao
>>98890943How many times have tables been flipped into your face?
>>98886987Inalla, Archmage Ritualist or Naban, Dean Of Itteration are the most obvious choices for Wizard-centric ETB Commanders.Play other Wizards with good ETB effects, shits like Panharmonicon, Reflections of Littjara (and other clone tokens generators), Harmonic Prodigy (for Inalla) etc.
>>98890804>800 deck>plays 3 ramp spells
>>98891018Huh? I don't think black/red even has any 3-ramp spells like Cultivate and Kodama's Reach.
>tqBeen playing him for ages. Get to run fun stuff like Fallen Angel and Sadistic Hypnotist. Ultimately I just like having a big token maker in the command zone but it's not really just an aristocrats deck.
>>98890400He made me try to build the Great Goblin
>>98891050Lol fucking retard
>>98891093>>98890400Godpedo talking about and to himself again
>>98891126who?
>>98891050Did you use AI to build your list? You put arcane signet in but don't understand that it's ramp?
>>98891162>tfw AI is eventually going to expose fake johnnies >the eventually put them johnnies out of a job regardless of talentThe time in between these two events will be a golden age
Is bracket 3 too broad in what qualifies?
>>98891162No way he did, even free no sign-in gpt can build a better list than that.
>>98891192In my experience, yes I did try, 3 pieces of ramp and a random The One Ring is peak ai deck building
>>98889758I suspect you could probably go down to 1GG for it, given Food tokens aren't as easy to go crazy with as Treasure is. Alternately, I could see a downside of saying that all Food costs 1 more to activate.
>>98890804>Goes for b3>Doesn't take third GC (you have demonic tutor and necropotence!!!)
How does Riker win?
>>98891236Okay, did you make the fundamental LLM-user mistake of just taking what it gave you? Or did you engage in antagonistic iteration, ask it questions about its choices, instruct it to actually review interactions, etc?It's a tool, not an actual intelligent thing capable of reasoning (You) have to supply the brain, as much as people and devs love to call it "artificial intelligence" it isn't.
>>98891264If you build bridges all your life you are a bridge builderIf you bone one blue chick the tourists at wotc make it your whole identity
>>98891126>Godpedobased?
>>98891264I don't see how this is any different to what gobanon is doing.I am surprised they did actual nice cleavage for a change though.
>>98891274>Implying Riker being a nymphomaniac wasn't already a huge joke in the Trek fanbase
>>98891271Personally I stopped after my third or fourth draft because they couldn't even keep the colors of the deck straight
>>98891292Yes wotc lecture latched onto the simulacrum of the show via the fans rather than the show itselfWelcome to the starting line
>>98891299So you were using some old-model knockoff site instead of even just the basic no sign-in free gpt service.Because it can do better than that.Make no mistake, I'm not saying anyone should use it as a tool, just that it is better than your derision paints it to be.I hate the LLM's and so I've made myself familiar with them only to not be blindly ignorant on the topic, that is all.
>>98891302Yeah god forbid they print a silly card acknowledging one of the largest jokes from the most well-received iteration of the series.
>>98891310There is a solid argument that voyager is more well-known the tng, it had a markedly large non-trek fanbase due to a female captain and the meme-ability of the doctor.
>>98891288Because its an edit retard.
>>98891309No i was using the full version of chatgpt circa 2025
>>98891310God forbid they make a startrek set and not a "memes of startrek" set.
>>98891337That you've used it doesn't mean you know how to use it, many idiots don't correctly understand the practical application of even a hammer.
I wanted to get a precon I could leave as is with zero changes and always whip out to have some casual good fun at a no tryhard 2-3 kind of tableEnded up buying this one. Good idea?
>>98890737This is pretty cool, ty anon I appreciate it!
>>98891326Fair enough.I'm used to looking at cards that do not have a yugioh holofoil stamp.
>>98891326>mfw this is trueWotC, those dickless bastards.
>>98891355>>98891362Hey it at least looks like shes braless or at least it's cold there, those are some pokies
>>98891346>chatgpt keeps trying to add oracle of muldaya to my numot deck>tell it to stop recommending that card as it is green>does it anyway>this is user errorLol?
>>98891349At a glance, it looks fine and playable. I dunno about the Elspeth, but otherwise, it's a pillowfort-y kind of deck that forces your opponents to kill each other. Looks fun.
>>98891391Yes it is, you have to stop giving it instructions like it has an intellect or emotions, there is no call to be civil in talking to a non-sentient tool.If it continues to violate your instructions then you are not making them concrete enough.
>>98891405>>98891391The actual answer is to learn how to deckbuild instead of relying on AI to be your new brain. It's literally more retarded than you because it has not actually been taught magic. And if youre directing it? Guess what youre just deckbuilding and you should cut out the middleman.Its like taking chainsaws to toothpicks and your suprised it doesnt work well.
>>98891343Yeah MtG the super serious game known for its 100% serious atmosphere that never throws a handful of silly cards in the set. Anyway I cast Space Beleren and activate my Spikeshell Harrier. Response?
This might be only slightly related, but I've been wanting to make myself some nice looking custom playmats and because I cannot find exactly what I want I figured at this point I might as well use AI to try and get there.Have any of you done this, what would be the best / most accessible AI to use to generate art of high enough quality and resolution to use for playmat prints?
>>98891414>And if youre directing it? Guess what youre just deckbuildingSo, you believe gobanon is an actual artist then?
>>98891427>best / most accessiblegobanon has provided the link to the tool he uses a few times.but the best and the most accessible are opposite ends of the spectrum when it comes to generative image/video tools.
>>98891416spikeshell harrier?omae wa mou shindeiru
>>98891430gobanon is an actual artist just like how proxyfags are real magic players
>>98891433>the tool he usesa 2023 local stable diffusion installation or what? because that's the garbage quality he posts.
>>98891414The true transhumanist galaxy-brain approach is to use the damn machine to do a 100-card pickup and then swap out bullshit for good shit after.
>>98891430Is the director acting in the movie?
>>98891441So he is an actual honest-to-goodness artist in your opinion then.Well at least you're consistent, even if your derisive terminology says you hate it.But, if you consider active direction of the generative tool to mean the human doing the directing is the author of the results, then there is no reason not to use the tools.It's ironic, I hate the tool and will defend that it isn't useless. You hate the tool and have taken the stance that it's use is legitimate.
>>98891450Depending on the movie, yeah, it happens.
>>98891405What I described doesn't fit into your critique you absolute psuede At best it scrapes edhrec and tries to add multiple versions of dorks to your listThings AI is good at for edh>changing formatting, great for moving lists between tapped out and archidekt or removing all set codes >removing all lands from a list, has a harder time with other types>scanning images and making a list with the cards in the image(some engines are better than others but I've gotten gpt to have a 98+% accuracy rate)>keeping track of multiples of cards appearing in your decks (has a limit of like 7 decks) What it blows at>recommending cuts>recommending adds>building lists from scratch>testing>evaluating power>finding lines esp with doomsday
>>98891450>Is the director acting in the movie?that guy in the middle? that's jon favreau, the director of iron man 2008he's also happy hogan
>>98891430This is the most retarded sentence I've seen all monthYou have to be trolling to not see the difference between ai being a glorified notpad and making ai slop art
>>98891459>You hate the tool and have taken the stance that it's use is legitimate.i love ai and i love how it makes furries seethe
>>98891463Incorrect.It can reccomend cuts and additions well enough, but you have to give it direction, not simply>tell me what to cut from this deck to make it betterbut rather>I want this deck to ramp into (specific strategy X) while still having access to removal (tarreted to Y or generic) while also doing (alternate thing Z) reccomend a minimum number of 1:1 card swaps in list form to achieve that end while remaining firmly in (insert bracket here).You can get perfectly good results with the tool, if you watch over it's shoulder, if you simply task it blithely you won't get results.LLM's do not think, YOU must think for them.
>>98891459NTA I like ai for legitimate purposes of advancing our understanding or figuring out computational shit and math that is actually advancing scientific study.I dont like the layman getting the chainsaw for toothpicks like i said. Its the same as your grandma having the latest iphone when all she does is call her grandkid once a week. Its overkill and your stupid for trying to use a powerful tool wrong.Its also makes shit art. Just full stop. Its abhorrent to the eyes and even the stuff the latest models make feel wrong to the eyes.>>98891461Retard
>>98891463>>changing formatting, great for moving lists between tapped out and archidekt or removing all set codesthis is 99% of what I use AI for, idk why anyone would unironically cuck themselves out of the best part of the format (deckbuilding)
>>98891476Either the human directing the tool is author of the results, or not.Choosing to apply this definition only when it is preferential to your subjective argument is a logical fallacy.
>>98891491Except you continue to refer to it as an intelligence, which it categorically is not, this fundamental misunderstanding shows that your entire perception is rooted in misunderstanding.
>>98891487>well enoughnot in my experience, at best its a bad version of edhrec>>I want this deck to ramp into (specific strategy X) while still having access to removal (tarreted to Y or generic) while also doing (alternate thing Z) reccomend a minimum number of 1:1 card swaps in list form to achieve that end while remaining firmly in (insert bracket here).holy shit do you actually think you are some kind of magician for giving it parameters? this is who I have been arguing with? NO DUH!
>>98891494false dichotomy
>>98891510If you've been giving the LLM specific instructions with a clearly defined goal then you would be getting the results you want, that you continue to insist it can't even follow explicit instruction not to include a specific card is a demonstration that you have not been doing so.
>>98891505By saying ai? Fine ill just use llm. Distinction without a difference to not confuse people who are just reading and 99% of humanity just lumps into the word 'ai'.
>>98891515No, the options here truly are binary, either authorship belongs to the tool or it belongs to the tool user, there is no third party and so there is no third option.>the tool is author when it fits my subjective argument, the human is author likewise in the same circumstanceThat is a logical fallacy.
>>98891528>If you've been giving the LLM specific instructions with a clearly defined goal then you would be getting the results you want,except when it cant tell oracle of muldaya is green or keep my general's color identify straight. The problem is with the AI's interpretation of the data not with the propts. No amount of AI whispering is going to fix that issue. Its just not there yet.
>>98891539its obviously collective ownership
>>98891529A distinction with an incredible difference, the tool does not possess intelligence, it is fundamentally identical to the random map generators of early videogames like Age of Empires, it is vastly more complex and competent, but the foundation is the same.To call it Intelligence communicates a misunderstanding, perhaps not on your part if you are ware, but to anyone else participating or observing the exchange who is not aware (and that is the overwhelming majority)Calling a fork a spoon is not indifferent, it is ignorant.The language we are using has specific and granular differentiations like this for a reason.Every reptition of it as "AI" furthers the spread of ignorant misunderstanding and, to the informed observer, communicates that ignorance of understanding, if that is not your meaning then do not communicate that meaning.And right there in your own reply you state exactly that, you are being ignorant to favour the ignorant.
>>98891552Collective ownership requires that two sentient parties be involved.When I build a fence, I do not collectively share ownership with my hammer, my post-pounder and my fencing pliers.
>the state of EDH and the Star Trek set is so bad we're debating computer ethicsGrim
>>98891491The foolproof way to stop getting mad at seeing bad art (which you oughta know is kinda pathetic behavior) is to close your eyes.Gobanon has to post his stuff so you can see it and get irate. You can't control Gobanon, but you can control your own eyes I hope.
>>98891569If one assumes we are men, then one must also assume we fundamentally lack a capacity to ignore titties.We can be pleased or displeased by the titties, but we are hardwired to look at the titties regardless whether or not we wish to.
>>98891560>two sentient parties be involvedhow about 8 billion parties?
>>98891568proxyfags kvetching over ai custom cards will always be funny to me
>>98891569I wish I could leave this hellhole of a site but the discussions had everywhere else on the internet are much worse.And I like posting my own funny pictures. I fight my own holy war in these trenches.
>>98891583>LLM's were trained on what came before so their output belongs to all humanityUh-huh, then EVERY creative endeavour by every human mind also collectively belongs to the entire race, my fence belongs to the first caveman to swing a rock in his hand because I have used the hammer inspired by that rock.In which case nothing matters, all is collectively owned and the difference between using a paintbrush to create an image vs a generative algorithm to create an image is indistinguishable on the grounds of creative ownership.
Just got a notification that my atlanta festival in a box is being shippedIn hindsight I should have just bought two instead of only one when I was able to
>>98891568Kek, yea this a new low, and thats saying a lot
>>98891430>Uses a medium to turn his imagination into something other people can look at and react toYes. He's a shit one, but he fits the definition.
I've started using AI to start decks and tapped out I use a prompt like >I have a jeskai deck that focuses around the draw go idea that everything worth doing can be done on the opponent's turn. I can make additional land drops using walking atlas and Terrain Generator. It has a land package and tries to keep the pips of its non-land cards to a minimum to include 10 utility lands including blast zone. >The primary win condition of the deck is token generation via cards like monetary mentor of which we play 5. We support these tokens with a few enchantments such as jeskai's ascendency and cathar's crusade. There is also a sphyinx bone wand and a sentinel tower. The deck plays 7 cantrips (such as ponder) 10 solid instant speed draw spells, 10 instant speed interaction 4 board wipes and 7 counterspells. the deck also plays 11 mana acceleration rocks, one of which is sol ring, 9 of which cost 2 mana and enter untapped and one coalition relicit generates me a list, a pretty bad one but then I do a second iteration and stick that in my sideboard >Revise list, decrease cantrip cost on average by 1/3rd, re-evaluate reminding that we want as few pips in our cards as we want, cards like BSZ, counterspell, narset's reversal and are unnecessarily costed mystic confluence is overcosted in general lets also revisit the lands, trim down to 35, include 3 ravnica karoos, the shocks, on color fetches, the checks and the painlands and add more basics I make a third list and throw it in my maybe board >last revision I want to add cost reducers to the mix, specifically for non-creature spells but if I have to be specific then for instants and sorceriesthen I goldfish each list, mash them together in a way that makes sense and start tuning from there. It actually takes more time than my old method of just going through my immaculately organized collection but the end product is usually a viable first draft, I would never rely on this tool to make anything but a first draft.
>>98891162No I just looked up stuff on Scryfall that synergized with discarding a lot of cards. MB on mistaking you, I saw 3 ramp and thought of the 3MV ramp sorceries that lots people suggest to cut first, not mana rocks. I played a couple more games with it today and only having a few didn't feel that bad to roll with, just curving out and swinging. I can toss in a few more of the signets and powerstones and stuff if that's what you'd suggest.>>98891262I guess I can put in Necropotence for even more draw options
>>98891671Okay, since the tool is so accessible let's see you do better?Do me a goblin chieftain pinup with the aesthetics you think are superior.Your argument seems to hinge on the generative model chosen being inferior, and the prompting be sub-par, both of which you should be capable of surpassing if you aren't just knee-jerking this.
Why the hell would you use AI to generate a deckIt's the stupidest thing I've ever heard anyone discuss, you're better off using the edhrec average deck functionI don't understand why you would find it fun
>a non shitty prof face breaker artworkthank thun. you are one of the good ones.
>>98891684I have no interest in doing one, for better or worse. Just stating facts. Pollock and Warhol were frauds, but that doesn't make them not artists.
>>98891262>gamechangers will make decks more unique>they totally wont make decks more similar at all
>>98891702I played ff7 but I have no idea who the fuck this is
>>98891709Nah, you're just a pussy. You know you can't do better so you'll just bitch instead.Smacks of envy.
>>98891709>pollock and warhol are fraudsAbsolutely based.Talking about artists made me think what would be cool magic art and I could use me a set of Georgia Okeefe full art lands with !Not Vagina FlowersLike this would be a good mountain
>>98891736>do work for me for free>no>haha you cant do itNever do anything for free faggot you can commision me though. Post your credit card # and those 3 digits on back in this thread and I'll help you out
>>98889129Not gobanon but I tried to make that alter and it mostly worked but they are all strangely sharing a single pair of tits
Claude, give me a sub 50 dollar deck that can easily hang in bracket 4 and destroy people. Make no mistakes.
>>98891752light-paws, easy.
>>98891752intruderalarm.dek
>>98891684>do me a goblin chieftain pinupdid it ever cross your mind that pinup proxies in general are disgusting and turn you into a pariah in every store?
>>9889175249 Mountain48 Swamp1 Hullbreaker HorrorCommander: CruelclawMade with Claude5.4
>>98891752I got you. (I didn't check the interactions, this is just the low-effort output)
>>98891776thats funny mine gave me saint thalia
>>98891766Bearscape; Serra Angel; Nin, the Pain Artist; Fire Elemental.Etc...If you don't like cleavage or implied sexuality, this game is not for you.
>>98891781I see. Then I got your pinup goblin chieftain right here. dont hot glue it right away. goon a bit to it.
>>98891749imagine the titjobs
I like this
>>98891813I imagine it'd be awkward to get in position.
KHAAAAAAAAAANNNN!!!
>>98891776And now, with one simple prompt the LLM's errors are resolved.See? If you just direct it to reiterate and reinforce your demands, you can readily get somewhere.
>>98891843Im not reading all that. Im happy for you though I guess
I like this guy, might build him
My brain has been so powercrept I look at a commander and think >3 mana and doesnt win the game by itself? Trash.How do I get rid of this mindset?
>>98891863If you are tired of the load of your sinLet Jesus come into your heart
>>98891863You don't really have to, if you want to keep making tuned and good decklists that's totally fine, I find them a lot more fun than slow bad piles.You could also just think of it as good to have in case you've got friends with precons or whatever and you want to play with them but don't want to crush them with better lists, not every deck you make has to be finely tuned and good and not every deck has to be slow and "fun".
>>98891863start playing games and stop watching youtube
>>98891863The powercreep is bad but you have to just accept it and enjoy making jank piles or move on to a different card game
>>98891874this, I still regualrly win with shitpiles dont believe the powercreep hype
>>98891863You can start by stopping being a no games
I kinda wish MTG could go back to a time where each card didn't need to do 3 things at once to be worth considering
>>98892026Commanders that are just "do thing, draw card" are pretty boring, sure, but they're one of the ways you can get away with playing """bad""" cards, because a bad card that replaces itself is a whole lot better.
>>98891863Reject Modernity. Embrace Tradition. >CHOOSE YOUR BATTLECRUISER!https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0q_MSMUEhoU
>>98892026Might I suggest an era-representative cube to draft amongst friends? You choose the 360 cards that everyone gets to play with.
>>98892061Crosis was my first commander deck. The joy of ignorance was so good back then I could play anything and be happy in a pod.How far we've come in a decade
>>98892067>>98892026Such as this 2015 pauper cube.
>>98892121Very based
>>98891863you probably play with netdecking retards, sorry anon. you'll need new pods.
>>98891863Yeah I guess you're right. The nogames were right. Powercreep made anything above 3 mana unplayable.
Now THIS is a real card
>>98892205
>>98891905Prove it. What do you play? Are you just playing with dorks?
>>98892061I know I said I'd have my 10 decks, ready soon but its looking like they wont be really ready till the end of the year the no-repeated non-lands is giving me a bit of problems in the ramp department, not because the options aren't there but because im inevitably going to play some comes into play tapped artifacts and finding the right homes for those cards is taking some timeI got my non-green ramp selection sorted out last night. Feeling pretty good about most of it. >Crosis: Recently moved to a dedicated Craterclaw and less of an artifact goodstuff list>Dromar:Added some action to the list, warped devotion was just WAY too cute and the deck just didn't function with a bounce package and a regular removal package. Playing just the bounce package is about the easiest way I have seen to make your opponents bored enough to walk away. That is not what were going for here and a real problem with my dromar lists in the past. One version couldnt win till like turn 20 and did it with Sacred Mesa most times. >Numot:I have been struggling to find an interesting build for Numot that doesnt just turn into drawing your whole deck. I'm probably going to do some kind of gimmick like letting my wife build the deck or some shit. >Oros:Still a lifegain/Bolas' Citadel list. I've been testing out some cards like mana barbs and Heartless Hidetsugu but I think only having a dozen of these effects is too low impact. I did soften up a table a few nights ago with them then hit em with Howl of the Horde into a comet storm so its not totally useless. Ima finish these non-green decks first. I think the green decks will be much easier, shout out to the guy spamming his empower jace tech Ima yoink that for Treva.
>>98892212But that's only stat'ed for 4 bears.
>>98892026I kinda wish you whiners would go play another game where that is the case.
>>98892121Do you happen to have an online list for this cool pauper cube?
>>98892235I travel a lot for work and play with randos at a different LGS every week, most weeks I play against goobers with value engines they hardly understand. Here's the approximate list I played last week https://archidekt.com/decks/9796589/burndont let the price flip you out, apparently the wheel I got for my 12th birthday is 500 fucking dollars now. Damn. Make no mistake, this is an absolute shitpile of a deck but I like pretending its still 2013 and top decking into something sick with no cards in hand.
You know, when I posted Epona, I thought of making a snide remark about hopefully not getting mixed up with the MLP guy, but then decided it was unnecessary. And here we are. It actually got removed.Are horses just illegal here?
>>98883879this has been debunked. there is no such thing as a "cedh" land package. dual lands are not exclusive to c[ancerous]edh. hope this helps>>98883566reminds me of this Weather Report ad, >{pic rel}>>98883934dack is cedh sloppa. you'll be asked to switch decks or please leave and find a table with partner commanders, thassa and other sloppa. >>98883970this is not true. blood moon is played in bracket 2 and 3 decks all the time. a drag queen groomer who works at GōtC has no bearing on this. its one thing to look up a list of game changers on your iPhone its another to explain some obscure rule that "this card isn't banned but it shouldn't be played in this power level" and then explain the ambiguous concept of "MLD" and what the D even stands for, and why blood moon is or isn't and the powerful lessons it teachesbut yes the fact that there are always-online people who read this stuff and think it has a bearing on gameplay and change their deck construction is unfortunate. one of the dudes I play with has armageddon in his b2 Hobbit Dwarves deck. thats the way it goes>>98884035speaking truth to power here>>98884128get a job. minimum wage is around $15 in most places. buy singles or Chang's cards. or just keep complaining like a pRedditor >>98884353alpha was broken of course>>98884909cri moar. play troop of ponies. having lands so you can play your spells is in fact a GOOD THING. hope this helps
>tqFor me, it's Olinda (uh oh stinky!)but for halloween I was thinking of making a mono black deck with Frank as commander (grandfathered in since the Dark was before Legends). but a lot of the mill I'd want for this would need blue. I was going to buy the new mono black pre-con and use most of that as the base but didn't end up doing that. {pic rel}halloween is the Leyline of Anticipation event anyway>>98885902this has been debunked>>98886180true but strictly for any-color Wraths theres Echoverse Fulcrum now>>98886211I like the flip land where's a white land on one side and destroy all non land permanents on the other. Ondu Dindu or something>>98886369>>98886461yikes. another one that will sit on the shelves like the marvel and aetherdrift shit. the cat MIGHT slot into Rin & Seri but its not even a "must"
>>98886928>>98887074I bought this exactly for the one ring (either getting rid of my own before it kills me without Mount Doom or other peoples) and have never used it>>98887164there is indeed a white aura called "Indestructibility" from m10 that does that (pic rel)>>98887224is this guys brother named Nygg?>>98887281this has been debunked. bracket 4 is playing high power, strategic commander with the most powerful cards in Magic's history. also shortened to S-CDR. c{ancerous}edh/b5 is nerds playing blackjack to hit their combos first. hope this helps.
>>98892444The horse terrifies the janny
The List is an aesthetic abomination
>>98892412I'm not linking my accounts, you'll have to go through the names manually with this.
>>98892525the little symbol cut out on the retro frame & OG modern border cards?reminds me of how nice the OG modern border is with all the flavorful texture on the bottom that is now just a cancerous black abyss of shit for 1/8th the card {pic rel}
>>98892544Thanks for posting it, I own a ton of these cards already. I hope I will be able to persuade my group to play some cube instead of commander for once.
>>98892121>>98892544love this shit. thats when I stopped playing but I recognize most of those cards from the core of the time I played from 2010-2012OG Zendikar, Worldwake & Rise of the Eldrazi, Scars of Mirrodin, New Phyrexia, Innistrad , M10, M11 and M12. great times mirrodin besieged & avacyn restored sucked though. and dark ascension I largely forgot even existed. back then when the middle block sucked majorly. except World Wake was impossible to find because Jace the Mind Sculptor. I think I only ever opened 2 World Wake boosters that I found randomly at Meijer's I think I had also played during Return to Ravnica but got out after that until Ixalan then after 2018 out again until earlier this year for Final Fantasy.which FF definitely brought a lot of older fans out of the woodwork, people have wanted a FF - Magic crossover for decades. thanks for reading my blog(pic rel was my favorite card back then for my 60 card mono white life gain deck. I dont remember commander being a thing until like 2012)
>>98892586>avacyn restored sucked thoughTake that back or I will start crying.
>"Split second is the only way I can compete with blue decks and their counterspells">I swap to Jund go face>One VATS and Molten Disaster later and suddenly he has a brand-new opinion on split secondWe went through this on Infect and Lab Man as well I'm starting to think this guy just doesn't know what he's talking about.
>>98892522I had a friend who played that in Rafiq, killed me many a time
>>98892609I love split second :)
>>98892619>timeshift samut>now is pretty heh
>>98892586was level up the single worst executed mechanic in mtg? except maybe need for speed
>>98892693Companion.Unless your definition of worst is different, like mechanically? Flavorfully? I don't see that much wrong with level up, could've been based around attacking or dealing damage or something instead but I think being a mana sink with counters worked too. Need for speed is just retarded all around.
Why the fuck are the triomes so cheap? Fetchable tapped command tower for my 3 color decks is kinda epic.
>>98892448>this has been debunkedNo it hasn't. Now kill yourself.
>>98892237Nice. I only have my Oros deck built. It's a lifegain alternate wincon deck along with a deathtouch equipment package to blow up everyone else's creatures. Lots of clunky and janky cards in the colors I don't play anywhere else. Fun battlecruiser bracket 2 for sure.I've got my Dromar build down to about 120 cards. Need to cut. It's just purely a stax deck with him as the wincon among a few others. I never built a stax seck so I just have been picking up all the staples I was missing along with all I've had and threw it together.
>>98892757we have a very different idea of 'cheap'
>>98892757What? They're between 10 and 20 bucks or more depending. Wouldn't call that 'cheap', relative to some fetches I guess sure. The really shitty triomes without land types are like a dollar or less, but the fetchables are not cheap.
>>98892693It's not the worst ever but it's really, really bad. Flavorwise it should be an easy slam dunk with all the video game UB cards they've been doing. This would actually be really easy to execute and could create less annoying UB transform flip cards. Except level up is locked to sorcery speed which turns literally every card with the mechanic into putrid unplayable dogshit even in bracket 2 games. Potentially awesome mechanic relegated to the back of the bulk box forever.>>98892757Surveils replaced them in every format as better fetchable taplands so their price halved from the 30+ they were at before.
which star trek commander pre-con looks the most fun so far
>>98892779>>98892781Sorry, I meant to specify, cheap for people with gainful employment. I didn't mean to be so NEETphobic, sorry guys.
>>98892617Nice. I loved those oldschool rafiq decks. I saw a few back in the day that could absolutely smash a table and not just get btfo voltroning one person.I never made one, but I did use him in a Horde of Notions EDH deck I made. It was pure aggro. Small creatures that did something, swords for extra power and to get damage through, and some damage multiplying effects. Horde itself is underrated as a voltron creature since he has vigilance haste and tample. Just bump up his power and he is going to tear it up. In fact, I think I have pictures of this deck from back in the day. Maybe I'll post them.
>>98892792Borg Queen
>>98892779Damn. I just realized I need a bunch of these and they need reprints! Any precons come with these that are still reasonable?
>>98892788>18 mana 3/10 that dies to 1 mana removal
>>98892816We trained him wrong as a joke
>>98892812>triomes in preconsyou think wotc is running a charity?
>>98891749>>98889129Have one where the cat is human like, and one where she's more dangerously cheesy.
>>98892795$20 bucks for a piece of cardboard is not cheap no matter how much money you make
>>98892803>Maybe I'll post them.I hope you will
>>98892779Now post the non-fetchable triomes.
>>98892877better yet post these
>>98892876Ok next thread since we are reaching the image limit. I found the pics.
>>98892889I unironically play these in my primordial dragon decksThey are pretty excellent as long as they aren't in your opening hand
>>98892585>>98892586It wasn't even intentionally a slice of that era, the intention was the best cards ever printed at common level up to that time, but they all had to be in the modern card frame so the whole cube had a cohesive aesthetic, each card may have a different set symbol, but it still feels like a set. the archetypes are mildly unbalanced, but that is not by design that is an effect of how the game had actually been balanced up to that date.I do believe there are about 5-10 cards its missing because of availability and price at the moment I purchased all the things I didn't have in my collection.
>>98892866Holy based
What is the best card in mono red and why is it this? Show me a card that can do more damage for this mana in the current meta.
Does Doubling Season trigger both chapters of a Saga when it enters? You play a saga it enters with two lore counters on it because of Doubling Season but does that trigger both chapters or just the second one?
>>98892986
>>98892986Goblin welder
>>98892866Well gee, now I have decision paralysis.
>>98892986huh? does 0 to me
>>98893013>being so lazy you need someone else's boring ass to gen shit for you to ai slop overoof
>>98892989yes, any way of putting multiple counters at once on a saga *besides read ahead* will trigger all abilities of that saga after the previous number of counters.
>>98893013gotta fix those hands
>>98892986Blasphemous act can do a whole lot more damage for 1 mana, but I assume you mean player damage.You could get quite a bit of chip with eidolon. Better against better decks, like how PoP is.Hard to beat price of progress though
>>98892989>>98893039wrong it doesn't do this anymore
New thread when?
>>98893059I got your new thread right here *unzips dick*
>>98893061How do you unzip a dick?
>>98893064look up tranny surgery videosno actually don't
>>98893045they didn't initially work with, but were changed to work with doubling season.>714.2b “{rN}—[Effect]” means “When one or more lore counters are put onto this Saga, if the number of lore counters on it was less than N and became at least N, [effect].”https://magic.wizards.com/en/news/announcements/secrets-of-strixhaven-update-bulletin>We've made a small change to how Sagas work. The mechanism that adds lore counters to Sagas now better matches planeswalkers and battles. Specifically, we've made the ability that causes Sagas to enter with lore counters on them an intrinsic ability. We did the same for the ability that allows the controller of Sagas with read ahead to choose a number of lore counters. This makes some interactions more intuitive: Doubling Season will now double the number of lore counters a Saga enters with.
>>98893079NEW>>98893079NEW
>>98893041you're looking at the hands? you might be in closet =p
>>98892061>>>98892061love Vorosh but I like Indo Rex better as my Green Blue Black Voltron commander. I really need something with that type of feel but red black white and blue green white. for red white and blue I'm going for an energy counter thing with Liberty Prime
>>98891126I wish he made more flatties, but I see mostly shortstacks in these threads.
