Mutts vs Nerds Edition >Previous Thread:>>98900204>HH 3.0 - Complete gofile - All Books:https://gofile.io/d/cnJk0N>Titanicus Compendiumshttps://gofile.io/d/bVNzwe2R>New Edition, to a great wailing and gnashing of teeth:https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/setting/warhammer-the-horus-heresy/>Official FAQ/Errata/Downloads:https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/downloads/warhammer-the-horus-heresy/>Thread FAQ (very old, remembers Age of Terra)https://pastebin.com/iUqNrrA8https://pastebin.com/8riDmnhS>30k TACTICA & TIPShttps://pastebin.com/Tm2P4QLphttps://1d6chan.miraheze.org/wiki/Age_of_Darkness-Warhammer_30k/3.0_Tactics/General_Tactics『Adeptus Titanicus and Legions Imperialis』>Official FAQ/Errata/Downloadshttps://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/downloads/legions-imperialis/>List of Titan Legions with Badges and Colourshttps://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/17Jccq0V--SwJifLVLwbisYnQeqLlS2pMSiPbGXp1Brs/htmlview>More listshttps://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/List_of_Titan_Legions>What size magnets do I need?5x1mm>Tacticshttps://1d6chan.miraheze.org/wiki/Adeptus_Titanicus/Tactics>Legions Imperialis Army Builderhttps://legionbuilder.app/>Thread Question:What's your favourite match-up?
first for the Iron babies.
>>98920896the flesh is weak
Fisher price space marine VS ozempic space marinewhich is worse?
>>98921200Fisher price.
>>98921200Ozempic like the 40k EC guys or
What is the typical game for you guys?>which edition>which scenario/mission>how many points>how long does it take to finish>any homebrew or house rules
If IW got rules for proto-Obliterators/Mutilators would you use them?
>TQLiterally anyone putting belt to ass on those fucking Viking Larpers.
>>98920517no, no! not like that! what i am gonna do, i thought they were the other roman legion but with some snownigger flavour. That means the only based legions are just Ultramarines and Blood Angels?
>>98921465THE editionWhatever egine war card we draw2.5kBought three and a bit hoursWe each draw a deployment and mission card and decide which we like instead of getting stuck with a lame draw
>>98921590I dont play IW, so no, probably not. . Obliterators would also be cancer to balance in HH. Theyre "monstrous infantry" (tougher than terminators) whos gimmick is having all the different heavy/special weapons (and also doing some melee). They either need to have the tyrant thing of not being good enough at anything, or theyre a one unit answer to every problem.
>>98921465>>which edition>>which scenario/mission>>how many points>>how long does it take to finish>>any homebrew or house rulesFirst.Narrative scenarios 75% of the time.Anywhere from 1.250 to 3.000Anywhere from 2.5 hrs to an entire day.Yeah, bring gin tonics and don't be a dick.
>>98921590We do, they're called saturnine Terminators and saturnine command squad.
How many large blast plasma templates is too many? 5-7 seem reasonable?
>>98922433Depends what kinda. Double plasma contemptor or boxnought? Any amount is too much you retarded meta slave. Literally any other option, like the deredeo, sicaran omega, or predator executioner, despite them being largely identical? A-OK, thanks for bringing something I don't see often. Literally just don't bring the most basic bitch version and actually diversify your army list and it's fine.
>>98922508>Depends what kindaYes.The guranteed ones are 1x double plasma contemptor and 3x plasma predator. Maybe 2x plasma sicaran in there (but ill probably use them for venators).
>>98921855>(tougher than terminators) whos gimmick is having all the different heavy/special weapons (and also doing some melee)Bro
>>98921710
Working on a bit of a goofy list and need some advice filling it out.Currently it has:Lacrymaerta ArchmagosLacrymaerta Scyllax bodyguards2x Archimandrite Tech Priests3x 6 man Prime Specimen UsaraxAllied The Flesh is Weak BlackshieldsSome flavor of command2x 15 man Tactical Squad2x Araknae Quad TurretThat all comes out to ~1.8k so I have 1k to add on.I want to run Ursarax so I am running Ursarax. Marines are left over from Saturnine box and can sit on objectives and shoot anything that comes close. Archimandrite can go in other units without tanking leadership, so I am going to stick them with the automaton marines and buff them with cybermancy. The quad turrets are just value plays since they are cheap off ebay and 10 shots S7 2D
>>98922976Okay, now imagine one of those that has every heavy weapon a HSS has at the same time (well, the option to switch between them). Thats the biggest issue, the flexibility, oblits do EVERYTHING.By contrast saturnines are tough and strong, but they only do certain things, their guns are specialized into certain targets and whatever you build them for they will excel at while keeping significant weaknesses in other areas.
>>98923467>2x 15 man Tactical Squadwhy not 3x 10 man?
Plastic warhound incoming
>>98923934Cool. Warhounds are probably the best looking titan (short of the traitor reaver) and titans seem finally fun to play against this edition, so the chance of seeing more of them is always good.
>>98923934Grok is this true
>>98923984>>98923934Now I really need to finish painting mine.
>>98921590No? There is a single obliterator during the entire heresy and he's a magos and I'm also not interested in non-hh stuff.
Here is my Night Raptors squad. Two old resin raptors missing. I will add couple more and have a kickass raptoric unit
Contemptor Dreadnoughts often carry double weapons put side by side, such as the Autocannon, Heavy Bolter and Collide. While I understand why the Conversion Beamer is a singlet, why not a double Plasma Cannon?
>>98924519Because if they fail at the same time a singularity wpuld happen and the planet would destroyed
>>98924527It would be pretty funny thoughbeit
>>98924519plasma is unstable in almost all (not custodes) imperial used versions, and conversion beamer put a huge strain on the hull and energy out put of the dreadnought. having a doubled version in one arm slot would cause more self damaged then demeed acceptable.
>>98923934>plastic titan before plastic secutariiOh come ON
>>98924519The twin-linked guns if they weren't twin-linked would have been pure ass in 1.0.
>>98924519
>>98923844Flesh is Weak over rides line and gives bonuses for 10+ squad size, so 15 gives some ablative wounds to maintain the bonus
>>98924598don't people just buy regular ad mecha plastic and give them SCE shields and spears?
>>98923934Guess my jump to Mechanicum was well timed.
whats everyones opinion on using guard armies from 40K as Solar Aux. Not the plastics, old steel legionnaires. trying to get an army ready for game tomorrow. List is 80 Solar Legionnaires, and im shoving 45 militia into the gorgon to shit on an opponents back line objective.
>>98925202They should be militia, solar aux is all 4+ saves
>>98925351yeah but then i can't run the macharius, malcador infernus, or my converted destroyer tank hunter.i wouldn't rock up to an event with this army, but i would run them locally with opponents permission.
>>98923842Not really. Obliterators have a meltagun or a plasma cannon or ...bolters. S5 AP-1 D1, that's what bolters are like now. Plus their fist. But yeah they can switch on the fly.Saturnines have to marry a gun option: a plasma cannon for elite infantry, a disintegrator gun for super elite, and a plasma flamer to deal with chaff that I can't believe DA aren't crying theft. And said flamer doesn't replace a gun. Plus their fist.I don't need to imagine their equivalence, to me they just are.
>>98924519No way, I couldve sworn they could take two of every arm
>>98925415>Obliterators have a meltagun or a plasma cannon or ...bolters.They used to pick between a meltagun (multi melta?) plasma cannon, lascannon, autocannon, or heavy bolter. No idea what their current rules are.
>>98925415>Saturnines have to marry a gun option:Yes, thats the key difference, its a massive difference. Whatever saturnines choose to be good at (killing light infantry, killing elite infantry/walkers, melee) they do it at the cost of being pidgeonholed into a specific path and inherently come with big weaknesses. Obliterators whole thing is that whatever they shoot at they have a good gun for, want to kill tanks? They can do it. Want to kill chaff? They can do it. Want to kill elite infantry? Guess what, they do it. Theyre the anti-saturnines, none of the specialization that defines the unit.
>>98925614Last I checked it was basically multi-melta, autocannon, and heavy bolter in 40k terms, but that was in 9th edition
>>98925629Yea im talking more like, 6th edition. They were basically 2w terminators (terminators were 1w back then) who could pick a heavy weapon to use per turn, very tasty unit.
>>98924258Based.
>>98925202As solar aux? Dont think it fits, infantry especially. Run them as militia.
>>98925382Why not run the infantry as militia, and run an allied detachment of solar aux with the tanks?
>>98925351There comes a point where WYSIWYG simply gets in the way of being able to play a fun game.
>>98925721Even if not wysiwyg, units should "look how they function" because it feels shitty otherwise. Your trenchcoat wearing guard simply dont look or feel like they should be solar aux guys and that makes for bad gamefeel.
>>98925614>No idea what their current rules are.Bro I just posted them lmao. I couldn't find the 7E version of them, seems that page is down or something? Lascannon, that'd be ...okay on a Saturnine's hand.It's so weird 1 Lascannon wouldn't be so scary anymore.>>98925624To be fair, Saturnines never have to give up killing chaff, right? It's just a choice between Chaff + Elites or Chaff + Super elites.
>>98926074The plasma cannons they get are not for "killing elites", Theyre small blast breaching 5+ d1. Theyre solidly for killing light infantry (at least by HH/marine standards), with the main benefit being barrage.>you never have to give up killing chaffIf you refer to the flamer? Sorta. Taking a flamer means having a fist, which means giving up the twin gun dream. That is itself a sacrifice. Its also basically locking you into deep striking, because youre too slow to make meaningful use of it otherwise.
>>98926074I would post it for you but I avoid 7th ed on principle.
Played a game versus salamanders today with my night lords. Final score was something like 58:24 in my favor. The first time using some of these units (with them painted), the atramentar flay clade did their job despite their best effort, taking out a vindicator, herald, centurion, and occupying the saturnine dread until turn 4 (with it down to 1 wound).
>>98926344Also: dont judge the half-build spartan too much, the guy is new and this is all he has built-assembled. Hes hoping to have the army done by an event in march.
>>98926348Bro flayed a spartan ;__;
>>98926372A well trained Night Lords company can steal the wheels from a spartan in under five minutes.
>>98926378Steelflayer clade
>>98926404That name goes hard unironically. Might need to steal it.
>>98926344Dude's got everything else painted rather nicely why be embarassed about one new unit not being done?
whoops
>>98926440Yea, his stuff looks great. You cant see it from that shot but the vindicator has flames on the shield.
Does anyone have a good scan of mailed fist? I want to use it for an event packet but I just dont have a scanner or id use my own copy
>>98926636for youhttps://gofile.io/d/TB4Tas7Q
what transports do you guys use to get veteran breachers safely across the board? rhino seems handy and cheap but having to do a disordered charge on the turn they disembark seems inconvenient.WIP as payment
>>98926877>having to do a disordered charge seems inconvenient.What are they actually losing, though? Like 2" of move (that the Rhino makes up for) and volley with bolt pistols?
>>98920892>that OP artHow much of those pieces are 3D with lots of heavy editing? Anybody remember the comic in that style that was the Ultramarines triumphing over the Word Bearers after getting their shit kicked in? Anybody got that pic of the silly revolver pic from that comic, please? Was that gun a reference to a "joke sculpt" from the oldhammer days by chance?
>>98926886>silly revolver pic from that comic, please? Was that gun a reference to a "joke sculpt" from the oldhammer days by chance?It's actually the archaeotech pistol of the original artificer Praetor mini: a double-barreled revolver
>>98926883For a World Eaters player they're also losing their legion trait +1 attack on the charge. In 3rd edition they don't get this benefit during a disordered charge. This didn't used to be the case but it is now, so whatever.>>98926877Melee veteran breachers are in kind of a weird spot for World Eaters. I'm building a squad right now purely for the cool factor, but I'm having trouble actually fitting them into lists.Compared to veteran despoilers or rampagers they have a smaller charge distance, fewer attacks and seem to be much less points efficient. They're slightly more durable against shooting attacks, but for the same points you can have a bigger squad of rampagers with more wounds and that outputs way more attacks. If you give them an assault transport to guarantee the benefit of their legion trait you're arguably paying more to make their durability against shooting attacks redundant. The only thing they sort of have going for them is the ability to take a few special weapons. I think they could have some niche utility for World Eaters in ZM, but they seem like an obviously suboptimal choice for most tasks. Still cool though.If I had to fit them into a battlefield list I'd probably go 5 men with a lances or single claws in a rhino. Dump them somewhere inconvenient and force the enemy to come to them, then try to charge the attackers, or safer bet just use them to bully tacticals off objectives and maybe score some vanguard points.
>>98926942Thanks for clearing that up with a picture.Is there some lore reasoning for the design? The revolver chambers are holding power packs instead of solid slugs?
>>98927090>the retards so dumb that stranding their transport forced them to run out of their transports back when rhino rush was a thing before don't work well with them when rhino rush was a thing now I'm shocked, shocked.
>>98927150The sculptor thought it looked cool, just like everything else in this universe.
>>98927152
>>98927090Very true, anon. Idk how people defend Rhinos turning off EC/BA/WE traits, which specifically didn't happen before. I don't see other legions getting no trait once they disembark a Rhino.As for the Breacher Vets, yeah I see them as melee Vets with antitank / special gun capability.Idk what use you'll give them, but they actually do similar damage onto 5A double claw vets (because those guys go unshielded), but it's more diversified. Less all or nothing, and against more target types and can cause statuses.They really are equivalent.
>>98927253>which specifically didn't happen beforeYes it did?
>>98927259
>>98927150Both barrels fire at once. The bolts carry electrochemical payloads that generate an electric charge at the moment of impact, but one creates a positive charge and the other a negative one. As they strike, the circuit closes and the target is fulminated on the inside. Source: just make cool shit up bruh.
>>98927259>>98927262I was talking 2E, where WE got +1A on the charge, even if it was disordered.
>>98927281Yeah, 2e made a lot of retarded decisions, what about it. One of these lasted 10 years, the other lasted 3.
>>98927262We're talking about 2nd vs 3rd edition anon.
>>98927253>which specifically didn't happen beforeYes, because you couldnt charge out of rhinos before. Disordered charges were something different in general. But okay, we have decided that legions should get their special gimmicks when they charge. Guess we have to have everyone volley fire now, or the SoH get singled out as not getting THEIR special trait (better volley fire) when doing disordered charges. And we better let you setup move too, or SW dont get THEIRS. And look at that, suddenly rhinos are assault vehicles that allow a SW player a guaranteed 26" charge turn 1. Disordered charges losing all possible benefits (setup move, volley fire, charge benefits) helps them feel sufficiently punishing in an edition where charges are incredibly strong as it is, and where the statuses certain weapons are focussed on are designed around forcing the opponent to make a disordered charge (alongside their other benefits).
>>98927090>For a World Eaters player they're also losing their legion trait +1 attack on the chargeTrue. But vet breachers care less since the lascutters are locked to 1A anyways. And also: a "bad combat" is better than no combat. Its better to get there with 1A less than not get there at all. >>98927090>I'm building a squad right now purely for the cool factor, but I'm having trouble actually fitting them into lists.Lascutters, theyre the lascutter squad. The thing that makes them special is 2:5 breacher weapons, which are all very good and all have significant value (and of which lascutters are the best)Vet breachers are not a general purpose melee unit designed to fight other melee units, theyre a missile that deletes a kratos or spartan in one round of melee. You kit them out for melee (or I do anyways) because its cool and because it allows them some utility as bullies, since they will still have a good time clearing out cheap scoring units for some easy vanguard pts where possible. also>compared to rampagersrampagers are VERY effective for their pts cost, theyre 22ppm veterans (basically) that come with power weapons standard and included in that 22ppm, and all that in a "regular" slot which means they dont require an apex to take. Theres not many units in the game that can do what they do for the cost (a despoiler veteran with a power weapon is like 30pts). But what they do is also basically fundamentally different to what vet breachers are designed for.
>>98926877A rhino. Anything else feels like an overinvestment (and I HATE land raiders anyways). I would consider a flyer if I had one, but alas I dont. With their reduced setup they care less about disordered charges than most units (obviously as WE you have a different incentive, but even then a bulk of their damage comes from their 1A lascutters). And the things they really want to go for are vehicles, which cant move react.
Is it just me or have the good quality arcane journal scans dried up since the ZM one?I'm not seeing them posted for heresy or TOW...Wonder if someone got got.
>plastic recon marines?>saber tank?>aquitor?>MK5?>techmarines?>arlatax?>vorax?>flamer section?>fuck you heres a warhound titan aimed at the 40k audience, using 30k resources, like the custodes
>>98928115The scanner probably lost interest in 30k which is something I can't blame him for. It's not like GW can track him down.
>>98928115maybe because the last 2 journals though cool for demons were troonstodes slop?
Man sometimes I want to play a 1.0 game just for old times sake, but then I remember all the bullshit I'd have to deal with again like old plasma, armored ceramite, weapon destroyed, vehicle dreadnoughts, mechanicum in general, end of mission scoring...really all I want are just the old flavorful rules on the chassis of 3rd I guess. Has anyone done a fan version that's more that and not just hey here's the disjointed corpse of 2nd?
>>98928483>I just want a version created from two fundamentally incompatible things I guessThe whole point of 3.0 is to be as flavourless as possible and the "chassis" is simply the set of gimmicks they created to distract you from the fact that it's dull as dishwater. Further, if you don't want good plasma, detailed vehicles, vehicle dreads, Mechanicum that isn't lame and gay, and end of mission scoring, what the fuck do you want, that's 90% of the differences that aren't totally extraneous keyjangling added by 3.0.Your options are A; play 2.0, it was fine, B; play 1.0 ZM which avoids most of the things you dislike about 1.0, or C; stop pretending you want nebulous "flavour" from a previous edition back despite apparently liking almost nothing about that edition when what you actually want is whatever unbalanced OP subfaction rules match your army and write some garbage OC Donut Steel house rules for 3.0 - nobody will want to use them of course, but you'll be doing your local community a service by marking yourself out as a worthless piece of shit who should be avoided at all costs.
>>98928153>using 30k resourcesThat's not how it works.
>>98928528then how come heresy, TOW etc gets good minis whereas 40k doesnt, if its the same designers?
>>98928153Plastic generic characters for each faction are frankly lackluster as well, and kitbashing from newer offerings isn't amazing either. Guess they want a bit of extra mileage from the ones already in resin.
>>98928567why did>resourcesbecame>design teams?
>>98927834Those are some good points, thanks.
I'm gonna go 4 lascutters and 6 power fists on my vet breachers. Probably not points efficient but it'll look cool.
>>98928734That's cool as hell Which legion
>>98928824Death Guard
>>98928734Me, I'm going for 4 lascutters, 5 combi-meltas, and a power fist on sarge, all in a termite. Is it a waste of their WS5 yes, are combi meltas not that great yes, but it just feels right. If only termites could work in ZM...
>>98927820>Yes, because you couldnt charge out of rhinos before.That was bad. Though personally I think having the Rhino move AND allowing the unit to then also move and charge is too big. It would be ok if 1. Access points were still used, and 2. Pivots costed M", as to prevent Rhinos from simply drifting sideways to align their hatch to the enemy.But that's not Shrimple...>But okay, we have decided that legions should get their special gimmicks when they charge. Guess we have to have everyone volley fire now, or the SoH get singled out as not getting THEIR special trait (better volley fire) when doing disordered charges.No, you would have to let SoH do volleys during disordered charges specifically. They'd simply not get the Setup move.>And we better let you setup move too, or SW dont get THEIRS.Nope. But you should indeed give SW +2" of setup even on disordered charges: 0+2. They'd simply only get the 2", and get no volley.It's not impossible, you just have to give a fuck lmao.Or do WS lose their extra move distance when disembarking from a Rhino? Are IH weaker after disembarking? Even DG, which explicitly lost their benefit after disembarking in 2E, have kept it in 3E.
>>98928153Dont fret fren, it looks like it was a fucking FAKE ass image anyway. Someone in a reddit thread that showed the pics off pointed out that the "person" who had the sprue is some woman who sells shit on "vinted" (whatever that is) and he showed a bunch of pics that shes posted, all her holding up sprues in front of that same wooden background. So either some rando whore selling shit on a website got ahold of a plastic warhound early and sold it bit by bit (and NO ONE came out saying they bought the bits), or someones playing games.
