Previous tariff thread:>>11540362De Minimis is officially over and Japan Post suspends shipments to the US. You can still ship stuff using DHL and Fedex I believe, but be prepared to be charged ridiculous import fees.
Will all this tariff nonsense make you actually stop buying toys? Or maybe limit your spending? I for one have canceled a lot of preorders, but hope to still get my must have figures. Hopefully this blows over soon.
>>11549034>Hopefully this blows over soon.I hope so too, but I have little hope. Even if the goober did have a stroke and we get someone new in charge, I don't know if they'd "fix" things.
>>11549034>Will all this tariff nonsense make you actually stop buying toys?No. Will I be a bit more choosey with my imports? Yes. Will I just start buying them from Amazon and other stores domestically? Yes. I was only saving like $20 by importing directly from Japan. I'll be fine. >Hopefully this blows over soonAlso this. I have a feeling this will be over sooner than later.
>>11549045It’s always going to be zionists in charge of america anon. Not much is going to get better until the country is forced to play ball with other powers instead of unilaterally thrusting itself into everybody’s affairs on behalf of the jews.
>>11549052If that’s the case then why did they allow de minimis before?
Here’s a post I saw on Reddit of someone’s order from Hobby Genki. Roughly $130 and had to pay roughly $40 in fees to DHL. This shit is crazy.
>>11549084For $130 in toys that actually isn't as bad as I thought it was going to be. Yeah it's still pretty terrible but I was expecting worse to be honest.
>>11549084How long until they cut DHL off again though? Is Amiami shipping to the US at all right now?
>>11549101I’m not sure, but amiami is not shipping right now. All stuff is being put on hold.
>>11549034>Will all this tariff nonsense make you actually stop buying toys?No, why? This is a luxury hobby so I just have to be a little bit more selective on ordering big ass items. >>11549084I expected a ton worse honestly. I can live with this as I always order in bulk.
>>11549104>pretentious asshole responseHey Necanon, I thought you hid tariff threads?
The tariff on toys (from china) will be lifted around November so that Trump can be claimed responsible for saving Christmas.
>>11549109It’s already too late at this point though. Christmas is fucked.
>>11549031Praise God that I got a chance to get MAFEX Brown Suit Wolverine for a decent price before this madness.
>>11549106Kys with your off topic grudge posting retard
>>11549106>projecting this hard
>>11549109Its a several-months process from loading shit up in China, shipping out to sea, arriving in the docks in the US, being checked in, loaded into trucks, shipped out to individual stores, and eventually stocked.Most retails have Christmas stuff sitting in their backrooms by July/August.
Looks like that one anon was right
>>11549106Are you okay?
>>11549104Yeah if it was like this every time it wouldn't be quite so bad. But it's so fucking all over the place...
>>11549109kek, Turnip prolly think like this, but shit is over, you'll have way fewer dolls and like it!
>>11549135What are you even trying to say?
>>11549120Yep. War it is.
>>11549120Qrd?
>>11549145That it's not consistent and we're all fucked.
>>11549150WW3 in two weeks
>>11549084>2 imported action figures = $128.93that's almost cheap!>tariff = $19.34Ehhhh... ok, I guess I'll eat it>processing fee to collect tariff: $17WTFThat's like being charged an extra to process sales tax. It's a giant scam by DHL.
>>11549084Fuuuuck Hobby Genki just sent me an email about my Toga revoltech, have people had success cancelling and getting refunded? I already paid in full for the figure
I wanted to see if I could take advantage of the situation to have Nin Nin move my single item into their private warehouse in case I need to ship multiple things together. But they won't do it.
>>11549212I have a bad feeling we'll see a lot of this happening. It's amazing how one dipshit can suddenly break the whole world apart.
>>11549244I have honestly never noticed the actions of a politician cause a negative direct impact on my personal life until now. What happened to nothing ever happens?
>>11549034>>11549045>>11549048>this blows over soonDe minimis has nothing to do with tariffs and is what is suspending shipments from other countries to the US. It's also not going to change. And it's unlikely that even a change in administration would really change it back.It's going to effect anyone (not just toy collectors) who buys small batch things from China, Japan, Europe, and many other countries. In a way, even though I am mostly against this administration and what they are doing, this is actually going to be a good thing in the long run for American workers and American companies, because it will bring some business back to the USA - largely by making a more even playing field. But for shit that isn't going to get manufactured in the USA and hasn't been, it's going to make stuff expensive all the way around.
>>11549031well, hurf durf im retarded because i waited long for no good reason
>>11549286>De minimis has nothing to do with tariffs?De minimis is about NOT paying the tariff though, right?Since de minimis has been suspended, you're now subject to the new tariff fees and other taxes.
>>11549286>De minimis has nothing to do with tariffsDe minimis has everything to do with tariffs, though. It was just a stipulation that you didn't have to pay them on small-value inbound packages.The logic doesn't even make sense, because it DOES make sense to allow small value personal items/purchases to come through if you're just buying a couple items. It'd be different if you were buying products by the palette to be made in China cheaply and then sold in the US. You can understand the logic of enticing people to move the production of those items to the US and the tariffs are a penalty of sorts of doing business that way.Buying a couple trinkets from China or Japan that'll never be made here shouldn't be forced for this to happen. That's why De minimis existed in the first place.
Reminder that one of the driving decisions on paper to end de Minimis was to prevent fentanyl deaths.
What about figures that's were shipped out months ago? Mine is over 60 days in shipped by boat from Japan.Will I have to pay? I'm okay if I do, I just don't want it shipped back.
>>11549157Your skin matches your post content Athena.
I JUST started wanting to collect anime figures now that I Have the money for it. Im just hoping Kappa Hobby ships my order. I bought the Rabbit Hole Miku nendo and that made it past de minimize just in time and I'm waiting on her. My chocolate and vanilla figs are U.S. based so hopefully I'll get those by March 2026. I should've just held my nose and voted for Harris. I didn't know dumpster was going to pull this crap.
Didn't we nuke these guys twice? Why did we let them tarrif us in the first place? 2 obviously wasn't enough. Happy Trump is making these Tojos cry.
I honestly wonder if things will ever get better. I joined the workforce around Covid and it took me years to move up due to Covid red tape. I finally make good money, have decent savings and I'm ready to buy house, then Trump comes and fucks the economy, then continues to make everything worse.
>>11549382The economy was fucked long before Trump. You didn't stand s chance zoomie-kun.
>>11549286>this is actually going to be a good thing in the long run for American workers and American companies, because it will bring some business back to the USAImagine being this delusional
>>11549031Europe already blocked all mail shipments of any kind to US.The problem is that the retarded tariff scam requires customs are paid BEFORE the shipment and literally not a single country in the world has a system for that, nor cares enough to create one. It's easier to just block all mail to US.
>>11549252Are you an actual child or are toys legitimately the only thing you've ever spent your money on? The actions of politician have been affecting the cost of everything I buy, since I started buying things myself. If this is the first time politics have actually directly impacted your life, you must be the most sheltered little boy on the planet.
>>11549031If you're Ebaying then be sure to buy from domestic sellers who have everything in-hand.
>>11549031I may slow down but won't stop. Most of the items I buy are rare 30+ year old toys that I'm finding for great deals. Considering the $ I've saved by hunting for the best price, paying an extra 15% + DHL's fees isn't too awful. If was someone who tended to order really expensive stuff I'd be sweating (but maybe if I was dropping thousands on my hobby a few extra hundred wouldn't matter to me)
>>11549329>>11549305De minimis meant goods came into the country without having to pay any port/custom duties and/or tariffs but it's not a tariff and thus isn't under the Constitution where they are listed as a congressional power (so a new congress can change anything any president does). And tariffs constitutional are also subject to judicial review, e.g. court rulings. The Courts can't really fuck with de minimis, it's well established regulatory and changing those isn't going to impact someone who would have standing to sue - sure some idiots might file a court case but it likely will get tossed out.The point of de minimis was cheap shit (e.g. $1) wasn't worth collecting import duties and taxes on in the 1930s when it was instituted even though $1 then was actually a lot more valuable than $5-10 now, because the amount of time, people, resources, etc. involved to police, charge, process, etc. the duty or custom charges on something that sold for $1, was not worth the 'reward' in the 1930s.The problem was that de minimis crept up slowly ($5, but not until 1990) but in the last three decades, once China entered the world markets, just ballooned ridiculously. It jumped to $200 in 1993, till it hit $800 in 2015. There's no reason for it to be $800. That's China sending 2-5 cheap flat screen TV sets without any duty being paid on them in 2015 and still would be more than one cheap TV set last year.When they raised it to $800, 134 million packages were received under de minimis. Last year, it was 1.36 BILLION packages.If you don't think that's hurting the US economy or workers, then you don't understand math.>>11549399If you don't think $64 billions annually between 2015 and 2025 didn't knee cap some then existing US manufacturing jobs and workers, I feel sorry for your lack of education, sister.
>>11549478>It's actually a good thing that I'm paying double for my XXL undies from fleet farmThe level of cuckoldry Americans are capable of is staggering. Funny you use TVs as an example, because the exact retard in office right now talked up Foxconn opening a plant here and they took a bunch of kickbacks, pocketed them, and fucked off. These new developments do not make it a smart idea to make the monumental investment to start producing most of this shit domestically. It would be less retarded to just eat part of the tariff cost until things change again
>>11549478The thing is nothing has really changed. It’s still not worth collecting: with this amount of packages it’s just a huge amount of people who need to be paid to do the work. A smarter administration simply would have lowered the exemption cap again.
>>11549478This guy is ultimately right. When Obama raised de minimis to $800 you had all these companies taking advantage of it and importing goods without having to pay import fees and the like. That is actively hurting the US economy. Instead of eliminating it outright though, they should've dropped it back to $200 and it would've been the best of both worlds. But unfortunately nuance isn't something the world is capable of in the year of our lord two thousand and twenty five.
>>11549486That's not at all what he's saying. He's saying there were people and companies who were taking advantage of the $800 threshold and that absolutely was causing harm to the economy. He's not saying it's good that it's eliminated entirely. Thanks for only proving what I said in my previous post about the lack of nuance int he world today.
>>11549478You cant reason with people here, im sure you know that by now.
>devastates global economy>refuses to elaborate>leaves
>>11549593No way he’s resigning
>>11549593You wish you fucking dweeb
>>11549394This.
>>11549593There's been so much wishful thinking over this shit the last couple days but I think if it was as dire as people want to believe there would be leaks, the administration has proven incapable of keeping whistleblowers quiet.
>>11549499I think $400 would have been reasonable preferably $500, but getting rid of it entirely is retarded.
>>11549593Trump will die soon... maybe!
>>11549649We can all dream.
>>11549593No way in hell. If anything, I wouldn't be surprised if he changed the law so he could run for a third term. Would be funny to finally see him and Obama have their grudge match.
Best silver lining I can hope for is people actually post pics their toys again instead of endless hype train FOMO posting. Maybe if you all stop jerking to the newest upcoming releases you'll actually appreciate what you ALREADY own.
>>11549593>Fucks over the globalists parasites that spent decades ruining the US economy>This is somehow a bad thingI applaud anyone who goes out of their way to remove the communist encroachment in the US markets. Other than that, fuck the global economy, it never once served the American people in the first place. Only took away jobs and forced the nation to be dependent on enemies for basic goods.
>>11549688>the president who is making the US government buy shares of companies is removing communismlol what if anything he is doubling down on it harder than anyone before him
>>11549593There is no goddamned way that would ever happen. The man likes playing king way too much to ever quit on purpose.Unless he was actually on his death bed and incapable of coming out on stage he ain't giving up his power and he might not even do it then since in his mind that would make him look weak.
>>11549593You better get ready for that third term because that's what we are getting in 2028. Trump 2028, globalists are fucked!
Goddamn, why does collecting toys attract such mentally ill losers? Get your brains fixed you troons.
>>11549709I read that in Alex Jones's voice.
>>11549206DHL wants their cut of the pie too
>>11549714Because you post to this board.
>>11549335And that was an entirely false pretense yet they had to keep repeating it in order to legally justify that.
>>11549373With just a couple misguided executive orders, the entire toy import game is thrown into chaos, let alone all the other industries that rely on low value imports. Stop voting on social issues. Literally NEVER do it. It doesn't matter one bit, as society from the ground up determines social values, politicians cannot make people moral, politicians are often the most immoral people in the world. Vote on who will be better for you economically, and that's it, because one bad policy can severely damage the economy and harm countless individuals. And when they say they're going to do something that will be negative for you economically, for the love of God, BELIEVE THEM.
>>11550229Imagine throwing a temper tantrum because the world doesn't bend over backwards to cater to your niche hobby. Sorry that you have to spend an extra $20 to buy import toys, but you'll live.
>>11550271It's not $20 you nutjob. We're getting screwed by much more than that.
>>11550287just make your own toys 3d printing exists
>>11550287It's literally only $20 more to buy from either Amazon US or BBTS than it was after shipping for me to import directly from Japan. Maybe slightly more than $20 for something like a Mafex or something, but for your average $60 import, I was paying about $80 with Japan Airmail shipping. US sites are only listing SHFs for like $100, some cheaper. Just buy from Amazon and shut the fuck up already, goddamn.
>>11550294Amazon doesn't sell Figma or Revoltech anymore thoughever
>>11550289But would it survive getting hit by a hammer?
Remember last year when tarrifs literally wouldn't have any affect on the price of imports? China was gonna pay for it, right?And now things are more expensive>b-b-but here's why that's good actually! What's the cope gonna be in 3 years when foreign companies don't bend over backwards to develop state side manufacturing and honestly why would they? Every factory not on their soil is a liability. You expect domestics to fill the void? What incentive is there to spend billions over decades to spin up critical manufacturing infrastructure when they can wait to Donny to kick the bucket, that is if the tarrifs even make it out of appeals. Shock treatment was never a viable solution to onshoring America's production capacity. Turns out you can't run a country with "concepts of a plan."
>>11550299Bold face lie. You can get Deathstroke on there right now for $110. Deadpool 2.5 is intjink another $10 more.
>>11550309>You can get Deathstroke on there right now for $110>Sold by Toys Japan Express
>>11549499>That is actively hurting the US economyPlease elaborateThere is just straight up no domestic production for a lot of these goods. There won't be. We made decisions long ago that make that completely unfeasable. I don't know why conservatives think you can put that back in the bottle but it's not going to happen. These companies will just charge you more for imported goods now because guess what, you have no alternative.So the end result is just you and I paying more and the extra money getting thrown into the giant bloated money pit that is the federal government. No investment will be made in domestic production. You are cheering your own ass getting fucked violently
>>11550294amazon is extremely unreliable and doesn't even get most imports
>>11550316Hell, when the tariff stuff was starting, around May, many imported items from Takara just dissapeared. All the listings were either gone or now sold by third party. These were all directly sold by Amazon.
>>11550294Unless you are getting Chinese Knock offs of Diaclone!>>11550308>Shock treatment was never a viable solution to onshoring America's production capacity.Indeed, especially when you are always two weeks away from "Infrastructure Week"!
>>11550308>What's the cope gonna be in 3 years when foreign companies don't bend over backwards to develop state side manufacturingNo cope, only rope. Democrats will have a mandate in 2028 once fat retards realize everything they buy from Walmart is produced in China/Vietnam and they have to buy boutique shit that's literally ten times the price for the same quality if they want that "Made in the USA" sticker.
>>11550328There is a reason they are trying to rig the elections, they are well aware how unpopular this all is before the damage has even really set in.
>>11550313So? What's your point? It's still sold on Amazon that will pay for whatever tariffs if there are any. The point is you can purchase it off Amazon for $110.
>Inb4 globohomo interdimitional likes demonrat reeeeeeI am not against the idea of onshoring but none of the measures taken this year are a feasible way of accomplishing that. The CHIPS and Science act was an ideal model for bringing back industries that we rely on heavily but that process was always going to glacial and wouldn't fit neatly into an election cycle for red team or blue team to take the credit.
>>11550302Do you want print quality, durability, or price? Pick two.
>>11550315>There is just straight up no domestic production for a lot of these goods. There won't be. We made decisions long ago that make that completely unfeasable. So? Why does that make it ok to import Chinese goods without having to pay your duty fees like you otherwise would've had to? Too many shitty drop shipping companies were getting around paying fees to try and over charge people for shitty Temu products. >I don't know why conservatives think you can put that back in the bottle but it's not going to happen. These companies will just charge you more for imported goods now because guess what, you have no alternative.I'm sorry, but the country shouldn't be losing out on billions of dollars annually just so PussyGrabber69 can peddle his shitty merch duty free. I'm all for lowering the de minimis amount to something more reasonable like $200 or even like someone else suggested $400. But $800 is too much and too many people are taking advantage of that. >So the end result is just you and I paying more and the extra money getting thrown into the giant bloated money pit that is the federal government. No investment will be made in domestic production. You are cheering your own ass getting fucked violentlyYou're missing the point bud and quite frankly I'm too tired to bother explaining it further to you.
>>11550340Why should we be charged extra for small items like that? It's horse shit.
>>11550350I literally say we shouldn't but that the $800 limit was too high. Didn't you even read what I wrote?
>>11550309Show me all the new preorders for Figma and Revo on Amazon. >>11550322Yeah they had Figma Marcille for like $60 but took her down and never got her again
>>11550308>China was gonna pay for it, right?Just like how Mexico was gonna pay for the wall. How can he be so retarded
>>11550340>I'm tired and can't explain myself jeez>please continue to read all my paragraphs and essays I will write
>>11550340>I'm sorry, but the country shouldn't be losing out on billions of dollars annuallyAre you one of those retards who still think it is the country exporting or the big business that's footing the tariffs? Lmao, you are dense as fuck. They're all just passing those to the customer. None of these businesses are going to be eating the tariffs.Also, are you idiots really so gullible that you think this money is really going to be used to "pay down the national debt" when they forced through their megaspending bill that is going to add another $4 trillion+ to the national debt?This shit isn't going to do shit except make literally everything cost way more, in a sinking economy that is getting worse with every step taken.
>>11550370>Are you one of those retards who still think it is the country exporting or the big business that's footing the tariffs?No. I'm referring to the loss of money from companies importing goods and not having to pay duty fees when they absolutely should be. I'm all for de minimis existing in order to protect the average citizen from import fees when we buy a random item from overseas, but all these companies shouldn't be taking advantage of the high threshold. Drop it from $800 to $400 and you pretty much solve this. You didn't even read my response going off the rest of your post. Please be less stupid.
>>11550340>Why does that make it ok to import Chinese goods without having to pay your duty fees.Well, what makes it not ok? What purpose do duty fees serve?>>11550340>Too many shitty drop shipping companies were getting around paying fees to try and over charge people for shitty Temu productsThat doesn't even make sense with your own rhetoric. They take advantage of the lower/no fees to ...charge people more? That's not what was happening... The "problem" is the goods offered are too attractive at the prices they were being offered >I'm sorry, but the country shouldn't be losing outLosing out on what? More +tip for Israel? There is no competitive domestic counterpart and nobody is investing in that.You're not tired you're a golem
>>11550425Prices which are taken care of by tariffs so that people are less incentivized to import chink sit from China. They will either buy American, or eventually buy American once manufacturing returns to US shores.
>>11550425>once manufacturing returns to US shores.Its cute you guys still think this going to happen when its very obvious most of this will get undone by the usual game of political musical chairs, most businesses are just going to do nothing for 4 years and hope the worst of this goes away, even while they say they're committing to increasing US manufacturing its all so they can just buy off tax cuts from the current administration.
>>11550425>What purpose do duty fees serve?Are you paying coy right now? Every country does this, the US in fact was the only country that had de minimis in place. >They take advantage of the lower/no fees to ...charge people more? That's not what was happening...I didn't say this. They're taking advantage by importing goods without having to pay fees. How is this so difficult to understand? I never said anything about what the consumer pays. Why is it ok for these companies to import duty free when no other country does that?>Losing out on what? More +tip for Israel? There is no competitive domestic counterpart and nobody is investing in that.Are you people pretending or are you actually retarded? Or at the very least do you not read the post you're fuckin replying to?
Any one actually have a duty charge from USPS yet? I got 2 packages in today that just skirted before the deadline. Is today truly the last day before we start seeing charges?
>>11550454I also got a package in and didn't have to pay fees. But customs had it since like the 26th so maybe that has something to do with it.
>>11550454Pretty sure the plan is for USPS to do fuck all, they want other countries to collect the duties. Who knows.
>>11550432>buy AmericanLiterally not possible for many thingsI'm not sure you understand the absolutely massive investment it would be to start producing shit domestically. So massive that it would be an unreasonable risk to even attempt it before seeing if the tariff shit rolls back(it will), even if it takes 4 years.
>>11550432>once manufacturing returns to US shoresNot happening.>>11550466>I'm not sure you understand the absolutely massive investment it would be to start producing shit domestically.Not to mention labor cost, unless Anon wants to work in sweatshop conditions...
>>11550393>You didn't even read my response going off the rest of your post. Please be less stupid.Yes, I did, and your argument is the hollow BS that companies should pay the tariffs out of pocket, when we all know that they're just passing them on to the customer/consumer.These tariffs do nothing but hurt consumers and/or small legit businesses. This shit is nothing but sweeping measures that, while meant to catch the people gaming the system, but also hurting far more people in the process.And your "well, I'd be fine with lower De Minimis" doesn't fucking make a difference, because that's not what happened. You can't defend this bullshit when the ONE thing that SHOULD have happened to not make this a total clusterfuck for everyone didn't happen.
>>11550352Yeah, you're wrong, twat
>>11550447>Are you paying coy right now? Every country does this, the US in fact was the only country that had de minimis in placeDidn't answer the question > Why is it ok for these companies to import duty free when no other country does that?Because they produce things we literally don't. We have spent decades upon decades offshoring and planting deep roots in foreign industry and then turn around and pretend they are trying to fuck us? >Are you people pretending or are you actually retarded? Or at the very least do you not read the post you're fuckin replying to?Dodging the question again.Not compelling. Voters will be wondering why their pockets are light in 4 years and this pie in the sky horse shit won't be compelling to them
>>11550432There's a really great video of this guy trying to make a dead simple product in America exclusively with American made components.It's a $40 grill brush and many of the parts are hand machined because there is not way to mass produce them without importing giant plastic die foundries, worth millions of dollars. Works no better than $3 dollar grill brush from Walmart. Now scale that to the level of cars, medical supplies, medications, house hold appliances electrical wires, and microprocessors. Starting to see the issue?
>>11550472Stop throwing a temper tantrum like a baby. I literally said in my original post that this country lacks nuance. I'm just trying to explain why de minimis for $800 is a bad thing for the country. It doesn't affect large companies ordering more than $800 and was only a thing for the past 9 years so acting like these small mom and pop businesses are suddenly going to go under because de minimis is gone is a fallacy at best. >>11550476>Didn't answer the questionYou think you're smart, figure it out. >Because they produce things we literally don't. Once again, did you read what you're replying to? I'm talking about companies importing goods from overseas, not ones literally producing them. >We have spent decades upon decades offshoring and planting deep roots in foreign industry and then turn around and pretend they are trying to fuck us?Yeah and it was a shitty policy back in the 70s when we started doing it. Too bad it took half a fucking century to turn heel. >Voters will be wondering why their pockets are light in 4 years and this pie in the sky horse shit won't be compelling to themDon't really care. People can cry all they want, if it ultimately brings money back into the country, I'll be alright with Youtuber8899 having to pay fees to import his shitty merch. Once again, all they need to do is reimplement de minimis for $400 or less and it solves the big thing you sucks are whining about, importing your toys.
>>11550488>ultimately brings money back into the countryWhich it won't you stupid psycho.
>>11550488It's becoming abundantly clear you have no grasp of any of this with all the deflecting you're doing. Really, really good goy though
>>11550489Making companies pay the fees they wouldn't have otherwise under de minimis absolutely brings money into the country. Stop crying like a bitch. >>11550490If you insist. I tried explaining it to you but you conveniently ignored those parts, nothing I can really do about that.
>>11550491Explain in detail why this system shock approach is preferable to a ground up roadmap like the one found in the CHIPS and Science act.
>>11550432>once manufacturing returns to US shoresThis is pretty much impossible, I don't know how you gullible retards that fell for the conman's cons still cannot see that. It's not coming back. No companies are planning to come back because it is so unfeasible. They are just moving to the next third world country that has the lowest tariff. US manufacturing can't come back and it won't come back. As long as Trump and his followers refuse to admit this, American consumers and American small businesses will continue to suffer and become poorer. Also it is stupid and unnecessary for the US to isolate from the rest of the world anyway. Being isolationist is not possible anymore and there are many more benefits to being a part of the global trade system and maintaining positive trade relations with foreign allies. This """plan""" really does not make any sense and there is no benefit to it.
>>11550494I never said this approach was good and that we should completely eliminate de minimis. I in fact advocate for just decreasing the threshold. I've stated this multiple times and that the current administrations way of handling this lacks nuance. But that doesn't take away the fact that $800 de minimis is too high and that many companies were taking advantage of that. Stop looking for things to get mad at bro.
>>11550500Nah, it wasn't too high at all
>>11550500Y'know what my bad. I quoted the wrong anon. At the very least we are in agreement that lowering the threshold for de minimis would be smarter.
>>11550466Investment is paid for with tariffs
>>11550530Unlikely considering the 4 trillion tacked onto the national debt to give billionaires MORE tax breaks.
>>11550479So all you do is consume globalist propaganda all day or something? Are you at least paid to shill that shit on mongolian basketweaving forums?
>>11550495>It's completely impossible to build a factory or construct complicated plastic manufacturing machines!!!>But third world shitholes totally can! They have no problem setting up complex factories for any goods you can think of! >It's just totally impossible to do that in North America. The technology just cannot be replicated there!Just how stupid are you?Or how stupid do you think everyone else is?
>>11550533That's WHY they get the tax breaks. It incentivizes more investment into more areas creating more jobs for morons like you. A tax break for a billionaire directly leads to investment into the economy elsewhere.
>>11550541Yeah Reaganomics worked out so well last time.
>>11550541>A tax break for a billionaire directly leads to investment into the economy elsewhere.It explicitly does NOT!From Reganomics to the fucking Kansas Experiment, time and time again has proven the rich just hoard wealth.>>11550550Exactly, yet they keep doing it because the rich foot their campaign bills.
>>11550539I think you are stupid if you think technology is the only/main issue.
>>11550508I appreciate that, but goddamn dude, I couldn't have made my stance any more clear. Pay attention to who you get in a tizzy with next time.
>>11550537>Are you at least paid to shill that shit on mongolian basketweaving forums?He's going to keep shilling it till USAID funding totally dries up.
>>11550541Name a single time that has actually happened.
>>11550539It's not impossible, but it is extremely expensive. Why do all that when you can just pass the cost of the tariffs onto the consumer, who has no other option? It just doesn't make sense.
>>11550571This in lies the issue, there should be something in place to prevent companies from passing those costs off to the consumer. I understand these companies need to make money too, but these tariffs should be designed to punish companies importing the goods, not the consumers who buy the goods.
>>11550541Lol. In theory and on paper that's what it is for, but we all know it goes straight to CEO's and shareholder's pockets. There's a reason why CEOs are getting bigger bonuses than ever, and companies have been posting record profits, while simultaneously most of their employees have to work three jobs just to pay rent and buy groceries.All these companies do is pocket the government funds, and then lay off most of the people who work for them, and then cut the pay of the few overworked people that remain.
>>11550537You enjoy slapping your fat fingers on your keyboard today because of mutually beneficial international trade. You would live in a much different world if we pulled our pants down and shat on the table every time we had trade negotiations. I wish people like you would just turn on NASCAR and shut the fuck up
>>11550539The cheap labor is what cannot be replicated, which is why there is no reason to build here
>>11550587>Slave labor is ok as long as it's for muh little plastic army men and other cheap shit from TemuLmao
>>11550589Well, that IS why Trump (and the Republicans as a whole) are working their hardest to eliminate things like Unions, OSHA, and other worker protections, that way they can bring cheap labor back here. Just go ahead and bring back the 18 hour work days where you're working with toxic chemicals with your hands all day, or licking paintbrushes with radioactive materials on them all day so that you get face cancer and your jaw slowly rots away.
>>11550589It is the only way for our standard of living to maintain itself. Not just for unimportant things like toys, but for furniture, electronics and other things we take for granted. If everyone is paid the same, everyone is poor.
>>11550666If you're buying all your shit, including furniture, from China, then I feel bad for you. Buy some actual quality shit anon.
>>11550683Most quality shit is imported from somewhere
>>11550683There's no quality shit in th US
>>11550577Why does anyone need to be punished? What's wrong with importing? What was wrong with things the way they were before tariffs? America can't do everything by itself. Absolute and comparative advantage is econ 101 shit>>11550589The ethics of overseas labor is irrelevant. The fact is, America doesn't have the required labor force and it's not realistic to build it. Companies won't/can't set wages that would make anyone actually want those jobs. Additionally, no one would even know what to do if they've never had a factory job before. So you are going to need to invest time and resources into training. Plus they will eventually just be replaced by robots and AI. Speaking of technology, a lot of it is going to need to be imported so you have to do the thing you aren't supposed to do and will get punished for doing so…The other biggest problem is how much you need to figure out on the supply chain and logistics side of things. You can't just build a factory and begin production overnight. If you were forced to start a proper business and given one year to do so and make a profit, could you do it? It's something that would take years, even a decade for even established corporations to set up. And in that time, tariffs are changing every week, there is economic uncertainty and financial strain for you and your workers, if you even have them. It's not just a massive investment, it's a massive gamble. Let's say some company takes that gamble and years later they manage to set up shop only to lose money and not be able to make any profit. Then what? Everything was for nothing and everyone loses their jobs
>>11550683If we're talking quality furniture in America, not Ikea type crap, you have to pay out the ass to get something made by Amish or something.
>>11550713>America can't do everything by itself.Trump seems to think it can. Typical narcissist.
>>11550713>America can't do everything by itselfIt CAN and SHOULD. It used to for a lonnnnnnnng time. You're conflating businesses being lazy and greedy in their pursuit of literal slave labor as a country being incapable of something. >could you do itThis literally used to happen all the time. Sometimes more, sometimes less. Heck, some of the massive factories we still have were set up incredibly quick. Again, you're falling for corporate propaganda when history quite literally teaches you otherwise. America was a factory country for the longest time until, again, slave labor entered the equation. Setting up a factory and the logistics behind doing so is a completely solved problem. It's rarely done anymore because rich people would rather be ultra rich rather than just rich. >>11550596>eliminate things like Unions, OSHA, and other worker protections,Where the fuck do you people keep on pulling this garbage from?
>>11550728We're going to be at these greedy businesses owner into shape so we employ more Americans! HOW? Well by *checks notes* giving them MORE tax breaks, gutting regulations, and leveraging higher taxes on the daily consumer?Okay and somehow as a result of that they'll offer high wages and generous pension plans... out of the kindness of their heart?? Are you starting to get the point? What you want isn't likely and even if it was the approach Trump is taking makes it literally impossible.
>>11550728>It used to for a lonnnnnnnng time.No it didn't. It still traded with Europe, particularly Britain, and Africa. France was crucial to America’s success in the Revolutionary War. Fucking France, man... Early America pretty much leeched off Europe from the start.
>>11550713Because they have caused both the American workers to suffer from the loss of labor in their home country, and the damage to the economy for an extra dollar. They are selling out their own nation to save small amounts of money, that needs to be a punishable offense.
>>11550587It doesn't need to be cheap, strengthening the value of the dollar though a growing economy means the pay rate means more. It has higher value overall. An American worker in a strong economy will be more valuable than a third worlder in a sweatshop.
>>11550751>in a strong economyBeing the key point here.
>>11550577There is, it's called not buying shit from them ever again. That's how we let the free market decide who lives and who dies. Quit buying from the companies that churn out chink slop, quit buying from the companies that makes shit at your own expense. Don't let them win. Nobody needs chink plastic anyway.
>>11550753But... but it's cheaper...
>>11550753You know where most of your toys are made, right?
>>11550596Trump is working to loosen the communist grip on the American workplace. 99% of those regulations are fucking ridiculous and do nothing to help anyone at all, you can be fired in an afternoon for absolutely no reason right now under the perfect worker protected program. Quit kidding yourself that you have freedoms right now, the entire econmic system in the US is hindered by the communists that worked for decades to ruin it and destroy the US from within. It was only meant to harm the companies and destroy the workplace in an ongoing effort to destroy the US.
>>11550577But I mean, where else are they gonna get the goods, the raw material? Annex Canada?
>>11550756Wait, lemme guess, DA JEWS, right?
>>11550728>It CAN and SHOULDOkay I see you don't want to see things logically and just want to live in retarded fantasy land. One man should not decide for all of us our country will be cutting itself off from the rest of the world, especially when he doesn't have any real justification for it other than a four word slogan. And again as I said, there is no reason to do that. Trade has been a cornerstone of civilization forever. You want to talk about history then what about the triangle trade? America got slaves from Africa, textiles from Europe, sugar and coffee from South America. Why should America waste resources trying and likely failing to create inferior goods or substitutes for goods that can simply be bought from other countries that have an absolute advantage in those goods?Can't believe I have to explain middle school history and high school economics to you anon. Trumpers are embarrassing.
>>11550713>America can't do everything by itselfIt absolutely can and should. There needs to be ZERO dependence on other nations for a single damn thing. Nations should be depending on the US, not the other way around.
>>11550760>create inferior goods or substitutesThat's the thing though. Trumpers unironically believe that America is great in everything.
>>11550755You don't NEED them, you WANT them. That is the key difference here. You are somehow pretending that you require chink slop to continue living, and that's stupid.
>>11550751It needs to be cheap so most people can afford it. You can't force businesses to raise wages
>>11550762>anon says, living in his parent's basement.
You got /pol/ in my /toy/, anon.
>>11550762Suddenly feelings take precedence over facts and logic
>>11549031BASED TRUMP! HE IS OUR GOD EMPEROR!EVERYONE GIVE HIM YOUR MEME MAGIC!!!AAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHU
>>11550756You don't have a job.
Do you dumbdumbs not understand why the US and its business sectors outsourced everything? Youre a fucking idiot if you think this is going to encourage or bring US manufacturing back. How fucking gullible are you.
>>11550795because Americans are fat and lazy
https://youtu.be/056CH-xC35U?si=LUsSmXjq8O4fESLI
what a bunch of spergs
>>11549031I just discovered the possible worst from a botched HLJ order. I paid for EMS, unfortunately during a delay, which ended up being already long enough for a return to sender. I'm happy my order's back in PW, but i still fucked up in waiting too long at all for no good reason.
>>11550861God I am so hard right now
HLJ is going to be making it harder to cancel preorders because of this shit
Why do you little girls act like the sky is falling over literally every tiny thing that happens? Are your lives so boring and safe that this is the only form of conflict? Sad, and pretty pathetic really. None of you are men. Just little boys.
>>11550432>They will either buy American, or eventually buy American once manufacturing returns to US shores.This kind of economic restructuring requires a long term strategic vision for global competition. Trump's own employees can't even get aligned on what the fuck the plan is with these tariffs. As soon as the Democrats get in, which they eventually will, they'll be gone. Now in a planned economy with a government that basically has a supreme leader? *cough China cough*, yeah you can do this. But America has been full pedal down on a globalist capitalist economy and tugging on the brakes like this randomly isn't going to do jack apart from cause short term chaos.
>>11550901Spoken like someone who doesn't have to pay their bills.
>>11550921>If I'm not a broke retard that can only afford the cheapest of Chinese shit, I must not pay my own billsShut up loser. Just because you live at the poverty level doesn't mean the rest of us do. Get a job.
>>11550901"Flushing money down the toilet is masculine actually"-Retard who has lost an argument
>>11549084DHL charging fees on top is bullshit. Let me pay the fees onshore.
>>11550589Yes.
>>11550924Sounds like you're not very good with money
>>11550955>Loser on 4chan who is kevetching about pricing on goods no one is forcing him to buy is trying to give financial adviceLol, lmao even. You guys are so broken that anyone who isn't a broke loser must be a rich snob. Seriously, get a job.
>>11550937You're unrionically crying because your literal toys cost more. Yeah, you're a little boy.
>>11550885Can’t really blame them. This is going to fuck them big time.
>>11550965Good boy, keep paying your goyim tax so Israelies can have queer origies under the iron dome that you paid for! Hey if your under 35 you might even get to die in a Venezuelan jungle so Exxon can post record profits AGAIN for the next decade!
>>11550965Bro, everything costs more now cause of your shitty choices
>>11550980Hey, fighting in a forever war might actually give you a backbone and give you some hair in your chest.
>>11550965We're coming for your autism bux next I'm afraid
>>11550983Holy good goy!
>>11550983>>11550965>>11550901This is possibly the most retarded and transparent masculine posturing I've even heard, dollars to donuts you are fucking wheelchair bound or something
>>11550996I don't get autismbux tho.>>11550998Lmao, cope. I'm sick of you little girls crying because your import figures are going to cost $10 more and take an extra 2 weeks for Amazon to get them. Boo fucking hoo. Inb4>Hurr everything will be more expensive though!I don't believe a single one of you buys your own groceries.
>>11550596>Well, that IS why Trump (and the Republicans as a whole) are working their hardest to eliminate things like Unions, OSHA, and other worker protections, that way they can bring cheap labor back here.They'd rather we just be indentured serfs so they can really be royalty!>>11550756>99% of those regulations are fucking ridiculous and do nothing to help anyone at allMeanwhile here in Iowa, we have to filter enough pig shit out of our drinking water to equal the human sewage quotas of entire nations...
HLJ private warehouse will now have unlimited storage time. Honestly I want to move all of my preorders to HLJ but like half of them are order stopped and idk if I should risk cancelling on other sites
>>11550901We got an INTERNET TOUGH GUY over here. You're on 4chan. /toy/. You're no better than the rest of us.
>>11550998nta but what does being in a wheelchair have to do with it? Yes, I am in a wheelchair.
>>11551021Did you guys recently have a disaster or something?
As someone who remember all mockery from US people about EU and calling us "poor" and such for having higher prices or other problems with shipping, I dare to say - serves you right.
>>11551028I'm not crying about having to pay more for my toys, I'm just going to grit my teeth and bare it. If I have to pay more, oh well, I can afford it, if I have to be more selective, oh well, it's not like I have infinite space anyway.You titsucklers are so fucking embarrassing, instead of dealing with this like an adult you sperg out and cry on a public forum. I genuinely hate that I share a hobby with such limp wristed homosexuals.
Back in the day, before de minimis was a thing, you used to go to the post office to pick up your foreign packages. Each package would have a tag/paper listing the cost and the post office would bill you for the duties right there. You'd pay and get your package.No clue why they can't just do that again - the system was in place before.Youngsters these days don't remember that no de minimis and no tariffs used to be the norm. The rates we have to pay now are still lower than most of the rest of the world.
>>11551031I mean you fags will always be poor but i never mocked you guys for suffering customs and duty.
>>11551033You were alive in the 30s? Damn son.
>>11551033Did the Somali care taker beat the tar out of you again grandpa? You're talking nonsense. We aren't visiting for Christmas btw
>>11551032Someone post the bike cuck comic, we have the genuine article right here
>>11551045>Being ok with having your bike stolen is the same thing as just dealing with paying more for your luxury goods that no one is forcing you to buy.Nice fallacy you have there. I never said I was happy about having to pay more, just that acting like having to pay an extra $10-$20 for my import toys isn't the end of the goddamn world like the trannies in this thread are making it out to be. Go clutch your pearls somewhere else you Karen.
>>11551032Just saying “oh well, I’ll deal with it” kinda lets the bigger issue slide. When prices go up for no real reason except greed or laziness and people just shrug it off, it sets a really bad precedent. It tells the companies “yeah, we’re cool with this. Keep raising prices, we won’t fight it.” That’s how we end up with $30 figures that used to cost $20 and come with less stuff. Even if YOU can afford it, a lot of people can’t. And when companies realize only the whales are left buying they either jack up prices even more or stop making the riskier/unique stuff and just flood the market with the same safe. The boring same old figures that sell. Endless Charizards and stuff like that. Everyone loses in the long run.
>>11551030>Did you guys recently have a disaster or something?Yeah but that was the usual tornado stuff.Remember, We're all going to die!>>11551033>you used to go to the post office to pick up your foreign packagesWhat is a "Post Office"?Is that like an Amazon distribution center or something?
>>11551060>When prices go up for no real reason except greed or laziness and people just shrug it off, it sets a really bad precedentI'd hardly call tariffs "greed and laziness" but whatever anon. I understand the point of these tariffs and eliminating de minimis and agree with the idea, but not the execution. >Even if YOU can afford it, a lot of people can’t.These are luxury fucking goods brother. Not food, not shelter, nothing any of NEED. Sure we WANT these toys, but we don't NEED them. If you can't afford you luxury hobby, boo fuckin hoo, I'm not going to give you a shoulder to cry on. And yes, I know EVERYTHING IS GUNNA GET MOR SPENSIVE, blah blah blah, I'm still not convinced any of your actually buy your own groceries or pay your own rent. >And when companies realize only the whales are left buying they either jack up prices even more or stop making the riskier/unique stuff and just flood the market with the same safe. The boring same old figures that sell. Endless Charizards and stuff like that. Everyone loses in the long run.>WhalesAnon, literally anyone buying toys from any franchise is a fucking whale. Shut the fuck up with this retarded argument.
>n-n-no anon, you see YOU'RE the whale because you have more money for the hobby both you and I share.This is how you sound you fucking idiot.
>>11551070>Not food, not shelter, nothing any of NEED.Because we don't import any food, wood, steel, or manufactured components for ANYTHING...
>>11551074I'll say it again, I don't believe a single fucking one of you losers buys your own groceries.
>>11551070>I'd hardly call tariffs "greed and laziness"Oh, you're a Trumper. That explains it. I realize there's no point in arguing with you any further. Have a good day.
>>11551070>Anon, literally anyone buying toys from any franchise is a fucking whale. Shut the fuck up with this retarded argument.YOU shut the fuck up. A Mutant Mayhem or whatever is a bit different than a Hot Toy. Are you Oprah? Did you know how a gas pump works?
>>11551079Why are you babymen like this? Point to me on the action figure where the Orange Man touched you.>>11551084See >>11551073. You're just as much of a whale as someone buying a Hot Toys. People who are casual fans of something don't go out and buy toys from their franchise of choice. Such delusion.
>>11551078Ok, what does that have to do with the price of house construction going though the roof?Issue is a lot bigger than our pathetic manchild asses Anon, so the fact that your defending policy that literally anyone who knows anything about economics says is fucking stupid is rather rich.
>>11551078Way to miss the point. What difference is it if your mom buys it or you buy it if it does not come from America and you want it? There is no way fucking Hawaii for instance would be able to support all of America's coffee wants.
>>11551026Is it just me though or has combining with EMS and DHL always been more expensive than shipping individually using Airmail SP? For example if I have 2 figures I wanted to ship using airmail its 2000 yen each, but the combined EMS is 4500 and DHL 5500. Its only ever made sense when you had 1 heavy item that exceeded Airmail limits already or if you just wanted something really fast as couriers are usually 4x faster.
>>11551088>You should totally believe me, the armchair economist on 4chanYou need to shut the fuck up too anon. Imagine being so up your own ass.
>JUST BUY THE CHEAP CHINESE SLOP GOYIM!Imagine defending the CCP just because they provide you with cheap shit.
>>11551093I don't know, you are WAY farther up!
>>11551087Hey, you guys are the ones that mass complained about family members ostracizing them after the vote. You're the ones that can't take rejection or criticism or arguement. Get used to it, bucko.
>>11551098>Sent from an Iphone
>>11551099Hey, I'm not the one crying on the internet because I have to pay $10 more for my action figgies>>11551100>Hey, you guys are the ones that mass complained about family members ostracizing them after the vote.No I didn't? Anyone who wants to ostracize me just because we have a difference of opinion on politics is probably someone I don't really need to associate with anyway. But if they want to cut contact, that's on them.>You're the ones that can't take rejection or criticism or arguement. Get used to it, bucko.Is this projection?>>11551101>Using foxconn partsDon't do this.
>>11551091I find shipping a bunch of things at once is always cheaper really, but I’m normally shipping 4-5 things at once when I do. There’s definitely a spot where you are paying more for the bigger boxes than you are saving in individual shipping though.
>>11551104>Hey, I'm not the one crying on the internet because I have to pay $10 more for my action figgiesNeither was I, but stupid policy is stupid.>>Using foxconn parts>Don't do this.And how would you know?Did you go through every electronic device to source all the parts?
>>11551104Maybe not you personally, but a lot of people that voter for Trump did. It says a lot about their moral fiber or whatever. They have a real nimby mentality. They're fine with bad stuff happing to other people, just not them.
>>11551091I have never used anything besides Airmail SP because they are always more expensive. Even on orders I have combined Airmail has been cheaper and I do not mind waiting a few more days
>>11551107>Neither was ICould've fooled me. I literally said the idea is sound, but that I disagree with the execution. But you chose to ignore that part.>And how would you know?Because Apple uses foxconn parts you plebian. And I'm posting from my PC, my CPU came from an Intel fab in Arizona. My memory was made in Washington, my GPU is literally embargo'd from being used in China. It's called not using shitty parts you absolute swine.>>11551108The only people that cut off family members for me were the Democrats in my family getting mad at the Trump supporters. I have like two cousins that won't talk to me because I voted for the guy they don't like. So it's not on me brother, sounds like more projection.
>>11551104>Anyone who wants to ostracize me just because we have a difference of opinion on politics is probably someone I don't really need to associate with anyway. But if they want to cut contact, that's on them.That's called "sour grapes" anon. I'm pretty sure politics are a valid reason.
>>11551110>And I'm posting from my PC, my CPU came from an Intel fab in Arizona. My memory was made in Washington, my GPU is literally embargo'd from being used in China.Ok, where did your case come from?
>>11551120Your mother made it for me
>>11551122Doubtful, and even then the fittings most likely came from China.
>>11551104>Is this projection?No, it's an accusation. You calling it projection is just a way for you to avoid engaging with it. Ironically, THAT could be a form of deflection. The “get used to it, bucko” was just mockery and not needed though, I do apologize for that.
>>11549052Evangelicals will be the end of us all and that's literally what they want
>>11551105Yeah. I usually order from amiami or mandarake, so at most there may be 4/5 from the same month/store, but its usually less.>>11551109Glad its not just me then.
>>11551110>The only people that cut off family members for me were the Democrats in my family getting mad at the Trump supporters.I sadly know people like that irl, one of my friend refuses to speak to her dad because he voted trump. We live in a blue state so it was not like his vote mattered here. It did help flip a seat in our district to red and it really pissed her off even though she doesnt live in our district anymore.
You're all fucking schizos
>>11551049Nobody is saying it's the end of the world, you brought that to the table. This is a toy hobby board. Do you expect people to be pleased?>Go clutch your pearls somewhere else you Karen.Don't use a turn of phrase if you don't know what it means you giant baby man
I just had an order ship out from Hobby Genki that they didn't even charge me shipping for yet, and it's supposed to arrive tomorrow via DHL. I am very confused because I thought nothing was coming out of Japan right now, and also DHL isn't touching Japanese goods. I have a feeling I'm in for a bad time when the DHL guy shows up
>>11551168Just from Japan Mail, there national postal service. UPS and DHL Express are still processing packages, and so is FedEx I believe. They have infrastructure in place in order to deal with the tariffs. See >>11549084. Doesn't seem like it will be too bad. Certainly not as bad as I was expecting.
>>11551172If I don't pay will they return to sender and refund me? I'm not flushing 40 dollars down the toilet and wish they would have contacted me before shipping
>>11551184>If I don't pay will they return to sender and refund meThey'll return it to sender, not sure about the refund process, that's up to Genki. >>11551184>I'm not flushing 40 dollars down the toilet and wish they would have contacted me before shippingIt won't be that much if it's just a single item.
>>11549031why would the woke media do this?
>>11550920This is why Trump needs that third term. They simply cannot let the Democrats fuck up the works and screw over the workers yet again, for feelgood stupid shit, that in reality is just more Socialism meant to disrupt all companies.
>>11551152>Angry customers are now "schizos" This is not how a business treats its customers
>>11550980Actually you are paying for the common Israeli citizen to have things every American wishes they had.Like free healthcarefree dentalfree educationlowered housing costassistance for people on long term are, elderly, and child careand their trains are not roving fucking dumpsters, they are maintainedyou paid for that.
>>11551130They seem to be following the ol' 2009 Barthandelus school of salvation. They just make everything so bad the world must end and thus it will be saved. It's not just toys, every industry and area of human civilization is and has been going downhill.
>>11551217What exactly is the reason you guys trust Vance so little that we need an 82 year old man to run for office again? What is it he can’t do a sundowning old man can?
>>11550981Everything cost more because the American people stood by and allowed Biden to be installed as president, despite the actual election outcome. And that senile globalist puppet went full force in fucking DESTROYING the economy as much as humanly possible in just four years. Now eggs cost $10 a dozen.
>>11551218I'm not a business and you aren't my customer you fucking schizo.
Like moths to the flame, one ignorant post attracts all the ignorant. You "people" need to stick to /pol/.
>>11551070None of them can put it all together that yes, things will be more expensive, but at the same time there will be more higher quality, higher paying jobs for Americans across the board. Plus stronger economy means higher value for the US dollar for goods too so everyone over here does immensely better overall for whatever luxury shit they want to buy.
>>11551287>at the same time there will be more higher quality, higher paying jobs for Americans across the boardNo.
>>11551221Because Vance was an outspoken NeverTrumper until the second it became profitable to stop saying that. He's a puppet and willing sycophant waiting for the next sugar daddy to give him money to say whatever they want. He cannot be trusted in the big chair.
>>11551305>He's a puppet and willing sycophant waiting for the next sugar daddy to give him money to say whatever they want. He cannot be trusted in the big chair.So... No Republican whatsoever then?
>>11550921>>11550937Stop buying toys, retard.
>>11551230You are calling the people complaining about the activities of these businesses "schizos", that is the connection.
>>11551325Where do you think you are?
>>11551287Without cheap labor there is no toy manufacturing. Sorry, anon, you have been fooled by a con. Hopefully one day you can look back on this when manufacturing is still not back and you still have to work shitty service jobs, and you can learn something from this moment.
>>11551305That's exactly why he is needed. He can be bought by business interests to remove the tariffs so we can get back to business as usual and buying cheap chinese junk again, because that is the ONLY way Americans will have any semblance of quality of life in the future. Unskilled $40/hr jobs are NOT coming and never will be. I will never have a manufacturing job, not do I want one. They are dangerous. Manufacturing causes pollution which causes health problems among those near the plants. Leave the manufacturing in China. We don't need this country to look like a 1920s steel town. You may be ignorant enough to not know when the skies were clouded by soot in this country and what London fog really was made out of, but if you actually learned from history you could find out.
>>11551330He won't learn anon. In 5, 10 years time, after another pendulum swing and there still isn't manufacturing back, he's just gonna blame it on the "libtards" ruining things that coulda, shoulda happened
>>11551327/pa/ - Plastic Addiction
I wonder how the tariffs will affect smaller indie companies like NECA
So I guess eBay warns you now that you have to pay customs at shipment received if you buy shit outside the US now.I don't even care about the extra cost. I work at the same hours I receive packages. How's that supposed to work?
>>11551385So like everything now? Since ebay is just aliexpress with an extra step.
>>11551385Everything is going to get worse
>>11551367What? The same way it's affecting every company right now.
I guess Hobby Genki charges shipping up front, I should have cancelled. The government wants a 32 dollar tip for my 115 shipped figure. I'm not sure I want to pay bros
>>11551385You'll get an email to pay before they attempt delivery, they aren't gonna show up at your door demanding money
>>11551496But neither will the package you RIGHTFULLY PAID FOR show up unless you pay. This is known as EXTORTION.
>>11551309>No politician whatsoever ftfy
Welp, I'm personally FUCKED because I ordered some figures from Tokyo Otaku Mode and now they aren't shipping because they're "suspended because of De Minimis" or whatever. For context I live in Burgerland. Can someone please do something about the orange blob that keeps fucking everyone over?I just want my sexy anime plastic.
>>11551514We're busy SAVING AMERICA! right now to care about jap plastic.
>>11551526Shut up retard.
>>11551514Anon, you voted for this. Trump made tariffs one of his campaign promises and you said, "that sounds awesome, please become president and do that."
>>11551514What can we do honest question. I've been thinking about it because I don't think it's a well known issue for most people. Would emailing your state's congressmen do anything? Most of mine voted for the big beautiful bill tho
>>11551619Do you know his email address?
>>11551617I don't think the toy industry is a top priority for the government, anon.
>>11551623Unironically, try Twitter.
>>11551623Try a physical letter.Elon Musk c/o Tesla, Inc. 3500 Deer Creek Road Palo Alto, CA 94304 USAorElon Musk c/o SpaceX Rocket Road Hawthorne, CA 90250 USA
>>11551588Seems like we can make you constantly cry like a little bitch
>>11551491Well what else are you going to? Refuse it and have it sent back and lose your shipping and get store credit for the figures?
>>11551644>spend 5k on a trip to Japan for a $100 toy
>>11551617Jesus guy, listen to yourself. No one in government is going to care about some niche hobby being slightly more expensive and a bunch of online neckbeards crying about it. Hell, I collect toys and I barely care about you neckbeards crying about it. Ugh, you guys are so fucking embarrassing.
>>11551653Your hatred of the lower middle class is not admirable.
>>11551650Anon if I'm going to Japan, I'm gonna make a whole trip out of it. 5k was probably an exaggeration but last I checked economy tickets themselves were 2k-3k then you have to add food and hotel and other expenses while you're there. Plus I'd probably shop for some cool Japanese clothes. I do want to go to Japan just for travel though and being able to pick up some toys would be a nice bonus but unlikely I'd find everything I want. Too bad you couldn't stockpile all your preorders there and go once a year for vacation and pick them up or something
>>11551653>No one in government is going to care about some niche hobby being slightly more expensiveThat is why you center the argument around how the policies have crippled American small businesses. Also why do you keep coming into these threads if you hate it so much? Why don't you go ride your motorcycle or have sex with women or whatever other manly and cool things you fill your real man life with?
>>11551654I'm just saying anon. No one is going to give a duck about your luxury goods that no one is forcing you to buy being more expensive. Sorry that you're priced out, but stop ruining it for the rest of us.
>>11551509As I always say, Politicians are like Diapers, they should be check religiously and changed often, least they fill with shit.
>>11551664>That is why you center the argument around how the policies have crippled American small businesses.That was kind of the point originally of eliminating de minimis. Businesses were using it to skirt around paying duty fees on their orders. This isn't going to be the appeal to reason you think it is. >Also why do you keep coming into these threads if you hate it so much?I mean it's been kind of dominating the board lately, I mean not as much as Lego spam, but this is being discussed in every thread it seems. >Why don't you go ride your motorcycle or have sex with women or whatever other manly and cool things you fill your real man life with?Good Lord dude, don't get your insecurity all over the thread. Holy shit.
Anyone have a guesstimate on when Trump is gonna do the TACO thing?
>>11551865After his next stroke?
>>11551873Well I mean there have been talks about him having dementia. I dont see how the man is even alive at this point.
I think I am going to start spamming my state representatives with phone calls. Be the change you want to see and all that. The plight of /toy/ collectors must be made known! :^)
>>11551875people can live a very long time with dementiatrump has noticeably declined since his first term, but I wouldn't count on it being fast
>>11551026Cool I'll just pay the 5 yen til pres dies/terms out.
>>11551217Bruh, Trump *within his own term* has changed his mind about who is getting what tariffs. Companies invest in manufacturing facilities when countries signal stable environments.
>one week later and postal services still suspended>no one covering it in the news>no indication from US to do anything about thisSo is it over? Things are not going to just "blow over"? It seems like no one cares that 30 countries won't ship to the US with their national postal service so maybe we will be stuck with DHL and their exorbitant prices until some future politician decides to address the issue if that ever happens...
>>11552393>It seems like no one cares that 30 countries won't ship to the USWhy would they care? You guys are self sufficient, right?
>>11552393Keep in mind the media -is- actually evil and against the citizens, in general.
>>11551033Probably because there are millions upon millions of packages now rather than a handful during the pre-internet days.
>>11552393Isn't USA the greatest nation on Earth? Why does it matter if dem gooks can no longer terk your jerbs?
In case all you retards aren't aware: Everything is going to go back to normal on October 17th unless the supreme court steps in and says it's okay for Trump to circumvent congress on tariffs. Unlike the previous times the SC upheld Trump's executive orders, this one is a clear violation of the separation of powers and will probably be struck down.
>>11552478>will probably be struck down.[citation needed]
>order shipped from china to the US after the 29th>got here yesterday>no duties or feeschinese shippers are based
>>11552478I think it is wishful thinking desu but it would be nice>>11552501China hasn't had de minimis exemption for months. And technically anon you already paid the duties that's why the price was probably marked up by $20 or whatever. But honestly I don't mind paying a little markup if it gives me peace of mind that I won't have any surprise charges when it reaches the US. I hate not knowing what the final price of an item will be. It was already something frustrating about sites like amiami or proxies whose shipping is determined after you place an uncancellable order
>>11552478I hate to disappoint you, sister, but it's more likely than not that (a) SCOTUS will kick this to next year (at the earliest, and still not likely, the spring), or kick it back downstairs to the lower courts, which will kick it to next year. (b) Congress will, just like they have with rescission, appointments, impoundments and everything else their Orange Jesus has wanted to do that is in their 'separation of powers' and they will keep letting him do whatever the fuck he wants, and that won't change unless the make-up of the House changes in 2026, which is not even a 50/50 thing at the moment.
>>11552522>China hasn't had de minimis exemption for months. And technically anon you already paid the duties that's why the price was probably marked up by $20 or whatever.Well that's a relief for me and my new Knockoff Diaclone addiction, but now I don't know about picking up a legit DiaBattles X1...
>>11552560It could really go either way. Lutnik’s own kids are investing in tariff refunds: that should tell you a lot about the administration’s confidence that they won’t get shot down. At the very least they are hedging their bets.
>>11551026>"Unlimited!">Have to pay LolLmao even
So we are six days in, has any one actually gotten a duty charge yet?
>>11552661hard to get charged when nothing is shipping, I had a package that was en route but jp post returned it to sender and that was a week before the deadline
>>11552670China sells toys too, they have not stopped shipping. More than a few of us get toys from their online stores like gundamnit and bombusbee to name a couple.
>>11552677china has not been exempt for months, i've gotten 2 packages from china i had to pay duty for, one in june, one in august
>>11552677I have been wondering about duties from gundamit and bombusbee. Anyone get anything from them in the last week?>>11552690Which site and shipping method?
>>11552741i just got 2 packages from gundamit yesterday, no additional fees, they are prepaid
>>11550315>There is just straight up no domestic production for a lot of these goods. There won't be. We made decisions long ago that make that completely unfeasable.yeah, and companies are slowly making the decision that writing, art, and programming are completely unfeasable too....Tariffs were created hundreds of years ago to protect domestic workers/goods. Companies used to fight for this shit up til the 1960s/1970s, when shipping lanes across the world were made safe by the US navy. Then these companies pushed the government weaken tariffs and make other laws in order to push overseas manufacturing, in order to make a bigger profit (all without lowering their prices for these goods).I get that gen x, millenials, and zoomers are used to a world where corporate greed is the rule of nature, but it wasn't always the way. Why can't shit be the way it was before the 1960s? Aside from your insistence that corporations and conglomerates must be making billions in profit to pay hundreds of millions in salary to their CEOs....Governments have been creating laws to protect workers and its people for centuries, so what's wrong with creating more? It's been 50+ years since corporations have banded together to weaken laws against their interests and created laws to strength their powers, so.... maybe it's time for the government and it's people to do something about it?>b-b-but then my toys will now cost $40 because a giant conglomerate said so!Why must something that costs 92¢ to make even cost $40?pic doesn't show the 1%, which are 1300% today
>>11552814>Why can't shit be the way it was before the 1960don't worry, we are rapidly moving all the way back to the 1870s, where things were even better!
>>11552814>>11552833Hey I happen to like having Indoor Plumbing!
>>11552744>i just got 2 packages from gundamit yesterday, no additional fees, they are prepaidbut when did they arrive in the US?That's the thing.If they arrived in the US before the 30th or whenever, there's no extra fees. Arriving after that? That's where everyone starts to pay.I rushed to buy quite a few things from Japan last month in order to beat the dedline and most shit got here last week, and even the shit that hasn't gotten to me yet, at least they arrived in the US last week.
>>11552836again you guys are making this out to be more complicated than it isyou are already paying the tariff on anything you order from china and have been for monthsthere is no new fee for chinese packages, it is packages from other countries that are now affected
I hate this tariff shit and ending de minimis thing the orange turd-blob has done. I want my plastic, damnit.
>>11549034It's making me slightly homicidal towards the scum doing them, but I won't stop buying from overseas. Some really good things just aren't available stateside.
>>11549031I will be paying the import fee in pennies mailed directly to the White House. There may or may not be feces in the jar with the pennies.
>>11553123>I will be paying the import fee in pennies mailed directly to the White House.Sounds like that would cost a lot to ship.
So it looks like if you had something that shipped the day before the announcement, it will still arrive safe and sound. Got an item that's out for delivery today.
>>11549034Trump said he doesn't give a shit if people are paying for it, so don't get your hopes up.
>>11552836NTA I've had a few arrive after the 30th. As anon said, tariffs are prepaid on Gundamit.
>>11553123Make sure they're ass pennies
He is still making tariff deals… Can he really do that after they were ruled illegal?
>>11554288Until mid October if he doesn't appeal.
>>11554288yeshowever other countries now find the situation ridiculous and are less inclined to make deals which is why hes trying to fast track a verdict
>>11549034Yes. I am not really buying anymore. Good for the economy.
>>11555971>buys importslop>thinks he was helping our economyYou make no difference.
No one came and saved the collectors, no one did.
>>11556156I left my state senators a voicemail and they didn't get back to me
>>11552814>Governments have been creating laws to protect workers and its people for centuries, so what's wrong with creating more?holy bad faith argument, batman, are you a politician?The reasoning behind making more laws should come down to the law itself, not "well we already make laws, might as well make some more!"You are either a fucking simpleton or a troll, holy shit. Possibly British.
>>11556017I don't think you understand how business works desu
>>11552814Tariffs caused The depression and if you disagree you better have some big fucking credentials. Or I'll write you off.
>>11556720Because they didn't have one of the best businessmen in history organizing them back then. Now we do. A generational talent in industry who knows how to MAKE MONEY and RUN A BUSINESS.We're in fucking great hands.
>>11556732tell us about his casino businesses
>>11556732>>11556755Or the stake business, or the University business, or the stealing from Charity...
>>11556943>StakeLol, lmao
>>11556945Sorry for my minor typo, still doesn't change the fact that the Ochre Abomination somehow looses money faster than water through a sieve.
>>11556957>loosesThese are the mouth breathers you argue with all day. El Em Ay Oh.
>>11557043Yet this mouth breather knows a con man when he sees one.
>>11556576I was referring to creating laws so that AI doesn't take jobs away from humans. Laws like this don't exist and there will be major ramifications that will affect everyone in ways we've only seen in science fiction. Like i said, a ton of workers have been losing their jobs in recent yaers, that previously were seen as soemthing only humans could do and we're not seeing the ramifications for that due to how long it actually takes for things to settle themselves (or not).Or do you agree that domestic production is completely unfeasable and tariffs shouldn't exist, because we shouldn't have any sort of protectionism for the interests of the people and everything must be for the interest of conglomerates?>ib4 companies are people toothis must be changedAnyway, other laws need to be created or taken off the books, thanks to the amount of shit companies have been fucking us over for ~50 years when interest groups for corporations really started taking up in Washington. Who really knows what needs to be finagled and how, because I'm not a lawyer.>>11556720Which depression? There's been more than a few.Again, tariffs have existed for centuries and you've lived with them in the modern age, everyday, every month, every year, and every single second, but you didn't notice until Trump actually passed something that many democrats wanted in the 1990s and early 00s when major domestic work was being exported overseas.>>11556732I for one enjoy his baseball bat approach. He's just swinging away, hoping he'll hit something and score big. Whether it works or not, who knows, but at least someone in the government actually did something.Tariffs that actually gave corporations pause, instead of tariffs that just increased costs for the everyman and lined the pockets of the government.Tariffs shouldn't act like taxes, which is all the y've been for the past 100 years.
>>11557800>Or do you agree that domestic production is completely unfeasable and tariffs shouldn't exist, because we shouldn't have any sort of protectionism for the interests of the people and everything must be for the interest of conglomerates?I mean you are making the same arguments about buggy whip makers.Yes, we've got a massive technological paradigm shift happening at lightning speeds, but what kind of Centrally Planned Economy are you envisioning that insures everyone has a job?>Which depression? There's been more than a few.The GREAT Depression.https://www.youtube.com/shorts/kR4qNNTkkY4>Whether it works or not, who knows, but at least someone in the government actually did something.Except we know it's not going to work, is actively making the situation worse, and is brining us ever closer to a complete societal collapse.
>>11557809>I mean you are making the same arguments about buggy whip makers.Not really, because how many people actually lost their jobs from that and how many jobs existed afterward? It was a side-ways mobility.Buggy drivers could become taxi/bus/trolley drivers. Poop collectors could still become trash collectors. We still needed vetsIf AI can do the jobs that people previously thought was impossible for automation/AI to do, where are all the excess workers going to go?People were enjoying telling journalists to learn how to code because they were losing their jobs, but now programming jobs are being lost to AI.With robots (automation) now using AI, how much longer will manual labor be around for? I'm old enough that i'll probably be able to retire when full automation starts total domination in 20 years.I'm already past the age of being drafted and even Ukraine wouldn't want me to fight in their desperate war right now. What about you?Are you old enough to fight in the wars to get rid of excess population, because countries can't support hundreds of millions of former truck drivers, delivery drivers, warehouse workers, accountants, programmers, writers, artists, burger flippers, and physical retail clerks?Shit, if things get super bad, I'll probably be exploded by an AI controlled drone cluster bomb strike because AI surveillance spotted 5 former dock workers who parked their truck full of glocks near my house.I remember in the 2002 or 2003, one of my business profressors said we shouldn't worry about jobs being exported overseas, because we'd be the ones in charge of the workers overseas. Positions like that were quickly nixed, because it was ridiculous in the first place.>The GREAT Depression.But tariffs existed before that and continued existing after that.>closer to a complete societal collapse.ooof, this is complete zoomer talk or corporate spiel. You're 3 seconds into eating a spicy jalapeno and you're already dying.
>>11557849>We still needed vetsNot nearly to the degree of when we all relied on Pack Animals; The Large Animal Vets workforce has decreased 90% in America since the end of the Second World War.It's actually a shortage right now, but most of that demand is probably because of the Animal Healthcare Nightmare that is Factory Farming.>If AI can do the jobs that people previously thought was impossible for automation/AI to do, where are all the excess workers going to go?You're not wrong that this is an issue, but it has always been an issue.>With robots (automation) now using AI, how much longer will manual labor be around for?Ironically enough, "low skill" manual labor are probably going to be the last jobs to be automated.We don't have a generalized platform able to do everything, hence the necessity of migrant workers who can haul bales one day and build a house the next.The concessions needed to automate jobs like housekeeping and construction are too costly and awkward, but the menial nature of the work puts it beneath most First Worlders.Personally, I'd say skip the Depression and resulting World War and go right to the Great Works, which I felt we were on with the Green New Deal and revitalizing our Energy Infrastructure, but people apparently hate windmills now.>Are you old enough to fight in the wars to get rid of excess populationOi who's the Doomer Zoomer here?!The reason I hate the Commander in Cheeto's reckless bat-swinging is it is precisely because it's the type of destabilization that forces shit like The Culling.I'd trust an infant with a loaded handgun more!
>>11558174>Large Animal Vets workforcewow, a single industry that ingnores the fact that there's more vets now thanks to the pet industry booming a billion times over since the horse drawn buggy disappeared.>it has always been an issue.Always? Did you just reveal that robot and AIs have always existed?Or do you just not understand that humans are literally being replaced by non-humans, and those humans being replaced will increasingly be unable to find work because machines are going to take more work from humans every year from now on?There's never been anything liek this before, because the automation was so simplistic that humans were still needed in great numbers and jobs were also created by that automation. Now AI can program itself and doesn't require as much human input thanks to advances in AI. Machines can build robots.>who's the Doomer Zoomer here?!You're the one that says that tariffs are going to cause another great depression, when there's very little correlation for that (other shit were actual factors) and the fact is that low employment s is a bigger driver for shit like wars, because countries want to grab resources to drive their economy up (see also russia's land grabs in 2014 and 2022). WW2 and WW1 happened because of economic distressSo I'm making a joke about how wars cull excess population, due to how fucked up wars and their causes are.Going into Doomer territory: I'd turn Terminator's story on its head. Instead of AI taking over, Skynet is run by oligarchies living in underground bunkers in new zealand & hawaii, getting rid of all the peasants who ruined the environment. Oligarchs want to fix the world and return it to its original state, for the sake of the children and their childrens children.So they nuke the biggest population centers (demoing the concrete/steel jungles) and sent armies of terminators to cull everyone else. Lower and middle class doesn't need to exist anymore, because we now have AI and robots.
>>11558648>Now AI can program itself and doesn't require as much human input thanks to advances in AI.Just so you are aware, there is a phenomenon known as Model Collapse.Basically, due to regurgitating the same recursive data sets, generative AI models start degrading due to hyper fixating on the common stuff while ignoring the outliers you'd get from a more natural data set.It basically sets them on a creativity death spiral.We don't have robots that build Robots, we've barely got Robots that can build cars and that's still only semi cost effective!Yes automation is shaking things up, but the bigger issue is that we've gotten complacent with constantly growing markets providing an artificial need for white collar busy work and we're at the point where that's the only place left to cut the fat to keep growing profits.>Lower and middle class doesn't need to exist anymore, because we now have AI and robots.While I don't doubt this is exactly what shitheads like Musk believe they can do, it shows their shortsightedness; How do you generate market value if there is no longer a market to sell to?
>Just so you are aware, there is a phenomenon known as Model Collapse.No shit? Hence humans still being needed, but not as many as they used to be. Again, not as many programmers and other related workers are needed anymore.You refuse to understand that and robots can do the work humans was previously thought impossible, and they'er getting exponentially better every year. Technology progresses, it doesn't get worse or stagnates.>How do you generate market value if there is no longer a market to sell to?Complete Zoomer take, because you haven't noticed all these companies have only been thinking about the short term profits/revenue and fucking over the environment to save a dollar for the last 100+ years.And now they're going into extreme mode, using AI to take over the jobs of many of the people they're firing now.We need protectionism; laws need to be created to keep shit from degenerating, because unions aren't enough. again, this is what the governments have been doing for millenia and even companies have been in favor of it, except companies started reversing course these past 50 years or so. First with overseas manufacturing and now AI/robot.>>11558746>While I don't doubt this is exactly what shitheads like Musk believe they can doDoes he have a bunker in Hawaii or New zealand, and been wondering how they can protect themselves from the peasants when shit hits the fan? A long time question that's been proposed since those bunkers have been shown being made (early 00s) are where to keep the families of the secruity forces and how to keep them faithful to the rich people in the bunkers? Well, now with AI & robots, secruity will be done by 333% faithful robots without families or relatives and will never leave their posts.Same with armies. With drones becoming common place and AI getting better everyday, the government no longer needs to worry about lower class scum shooting their commanders if they don't agree with what the government is doing.
>>11558818>You refuse to understand that and robots can do the work humans was previously thought impossibleNo, you are greatly over estimating robotic capability!Remember Big Dog?The Robotic Pack Mule Boston Dynamics wanted to change warfare with?An incredible advancement in autonomous movement and navigation?Shuttered.Why?The thing required an onboard gasoline engine to power it, making it too noisy and it STILL lack the endurance the military wanted.Elon's Lithium mines are being dug BY HAND!
>>11558831shuttered because there's other companies are doing their own thing now, because AI and robot projects have grown by a shit ton since the 00s.Make other companies richer, because there's a lot of money that can be made from that.There are companies are even selling that shit to the public now, because it's so easy to produce now.And who knows what the military is doing in secret.Boston Dynamics isn't even an American company, so Big Dog was only supposed to be a supply carrier. Guess what happened when Big Dog was canceled? Boston Dynamics went to work on an even bigger robot. And when that was canceled? Here's their current one.We went from meticulously programmed robots that barely climb stairs that were carefully measured at a speed of a few yards an hour, to robots that figure out how to climb stairs all on their own in another year, to robots climbing moving stairs... while being pushed/pulled, while carrying shit, at a few mph in another few years. Again, technology progresses and you're shutting your ears and eyes to reality, pretending change isn't possible and there won't be progress anymore, because you think we shouldn't have laws to protect human interests? To pretend that corporations aren't already replacing us and wont have a need for us in the future?By the time mines no longer need to be dug out by hands, it's already too late for the rest of humanity, bro. Again, shit like programming, music, writing, drawings, and animation, that was once thought too complex for machine to ever do is now possible with the machine. Robots still need need a ways to go, but they're getting there and it's going to happen before you hit the age limit on being drafted into the military.Whether there's cullings or not... well, war is inevitable, huh? Any excuse can be made for them. Maybe there'll be another lab created pandemic, but next time they'll be more secretive?
>>11558910Wow, this has been a trip...First, let's take a look at your slickly edited, choreographed dance video.It starts with their then current model of Atlas; The general humanoid platform that would presumably replace human workers.Here is it's current incarnation:https://www.youtube.com/shorts/rjLb2Lkea8ANotice it can't really do fine manipulation, and what it can do is at geriatric speed.This is the closest they have to replacing us, and while it's certainly getting there, it's still a demonstrator that's costing millions of dollars to pick random shit off a conveyer belt.Next we have Spot, the successful product produced from the BigDog project; A robotic arm on a much downscaled quadrupedal platform...Finally we have Handle, Boston Dynamics first attempt at applying all their robotic knowhow into a warehouse worker bot.Handle gave way to Stretch, a platform that did away with all the dynamic balancing.It's basically a robotic arm on a pallet sized moveable platform.Stretch is purpose built to move boxes in warehouses.It is VERY good at this.Stretch can't do much else, because it is specifically designed to work on flat, paved warehouse floors to move boxes.So, does this give you any idea how actual automation is put into practice?https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8WZoVJIV9V0Notice how the current Atlas, the "Do everything a human can" robot, is slow, inefficient, and costly?That Stretch can do similar task at much greater speeds?That's because automation works best when you can limit the amount of repetitive, monotonous tasks each system does.The more tasks and greater complexity you add, the easier it is for a single complication to bring the whole thing to a screeching halt, if not outright catastrophic failure.
>>11559081So no, I am actually much more acutely aware of the automation situation than you give me credit for.Could they replace human workers?Sure, but as Rossum's Universal Robots shows, they'd basically be making people at that point, and begs the question why a replicant would be willing to slave away for human masters.
>>11552478>clear violation of the separation of powersIt really doesn't matter, anon. It's all for show. They can come up with any nonsense they want to rubber stamp it.
>>11559081>technology doesn't improve>implication that humans don't carefully choreograph their own dance videos and slickly edit thoseMega OOF.Again, we went from robots that could barely climb stairs without falling down, to robots that dance to musicYou really don't know shit. You went from telling me that they canceled Bigdog, like that was totally the end of robotics and a deadend industry, and now you're showing me a video explaining how robots are able to sort parts and move shit around all by themselves. Here's a video of robots being able to do warehouse work https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OGoQVBeLoEMAnd your own video shows a multi-use robot (read: human-like) that's able to sort shit,. There's already dedicated robots for that too, btw, because there's hundreds of companies developing robots. Here's amazon developing their own robots https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2X4CU3jmw-gAnd since you've shown how ignorant and dumb you are, i need to explain that these robotics will be made smaller (prototypes are clunky pieces of shit) and the technology will be put into other robots too. Think tentacle monsters.If you're this afraid of robots and AI taking over for humans, that you need to delude yourself about shit you yourself are posting, maybe you really should think about limiting what these robots can do and demanding your government to create laws that robots/ai aren't allowed to take work from humans.>b-b-b-but your own video claims that humans will still be needed!Yeah, until robots/ai improve enough to take the place of what those humans can do. Progress never stops and we'll get to that point before you're not too old to be conscripted for war. 20 years max.>b-b-but amazon/corporations aren't that short sightedzoom zoom. they've fucked over the planet and poisoned humans for over a hundred years to save a buck, and layoff people in the hundreds of thousands because they didn't meet their projected growth rate.
>>11559760>If you're this afraid of robots and AI taking over for humansI'm not.I'm not because I'm not conflagrating Science Fantasy of Robotic with the Reality.General Artificial Intelligence at or surpassing Human Cognition in the next 20 years?Very possible.A humanoid robotic platform capable of replacing a human laborer?Less doable, but could happen, sure.The Oligarchs of the world creating an entire self-sufficient, self-sustaining robotic ecosystem to replace the rest of us?Fat chance!Those fuckers don't know how to handle a single boat going binted in a major canal!And my reference to Rossum's Universal Robots apparently orbited WAY over your head; If they create a Human-but-better to replace the rest of us, what's stopping such a creation from overthrowing them?>maybe you really should think about limiting what these robots can do and demanding your government to create laws that robots/ai aren't allowed to take work from humansOk Boomer, Protectionism isn't going to work here, and the Orange Smear's Big Bullshit Bill had originally this LITTLE clause in it BANNING State-level laws regulating AI.Stop believing a so-called "Billionaire" is your buddy and that his Plutocratic ilk are somehow hyper competent enough to complete an entire labor paradigm shift yet stupid enough to cut their nose off to spite their face.
>>11559807>the Reality.You mean the reality that you're denying and downplaying?Why did you point out that Bigdog was canceled?>General Artificial Intelligence at or surpassing Human Cognition in the next 20 years?Who's talking about AI surpassing humans? No one. This is just your cope, because you want to downplay the simple shit that humans do (packaging, shipping, programming, editing, animating, driving, accounting, etc) that robots are already replacing humans in doing.Again, if you're going to delude yourself over this shit, you're obviously worried about robots/AI taking over, but because you're either a retard who thinks sticking his fingers in his ears will make it go away, or are some corporate shill, or truly believe technology won't improve like it has in the past 20 years, you don't want to take any steps to prevent an actual take over/collapse.Say something right now, before corporation continue doing their thing in squashing human rights. Before even more massive layoffs happen.>Protectionism isn't going to work here,You're a fucking retarded. You just want to argue about dumb shit and simply thinkin by saying "but it won't happen" that what already happened 5 months ago isn't happening today, won't continue happening tomorrow, the next month, a year from now, and into the next decade.This shit is rapidly escalating and just like how shipping jobs overseas started affecting people in the 00s, robots will be even worse and you're going to be involved with the ramifications, no matter how much you want to deny it.>Stop believing a so-called "Billionaire" is your buddy Who said this? Not me. Never voted for the guy, but I like anything that involves protecting workers and supporting worker rights. Why hate on something positive? Just to be a shitbag contrarian?And i obviously don't like that they've given AI such laissez faire attitude, otherwise i wouldn't be telling you to write to your government, huh? Fucking retard.
>>11559828>the simple shit that humans do (packaging, shipping, programming, editing, animating, driving, accounting, etc) that robots are already replacing humans in doingSimpleton, do you know why I started with the Buggy Whip makers?It's a reference to the paradigm shift of the dawn of the Automobile; How would all the Horse Buggy and Horse Buggy Accessory manufacturers survive in this new era of Horseless Carriages?!They didn't really, but humanity soldiered on regardless.Is there a serious employment crisis?Yes, but it's not going to be as simple as "THEY REPLACED EVERYONE WITH ROBUTTS!!!"It is a shift, a change, but that change is inevitable!If you want to go back to eking out a living subsidence farming, go ahead and try.Believe me City Boy, it fucking SUCKS.Actually I have a perfect case example for why your hysteria is hysterical; Detasseling.In order to prevent the cross pollination of specialty corn breeds, the male pollen producing "flower" or tassel needs to be removed from the top of the cornstalk before it can bloom.Historically, this is mostly done by gullible Teenagers, entranced by STARTING wages of $20 per hour...They pay these wages because of the CONSTANT churn this kind of work creates; Blistering peak Summer heat in a muggy, buggy, and skin-lacerating Corn Fields, requiring that you be fully covered as you reach several feet above your head to cut off a scraggly poof.It's one of many farming task that are actually extremely difficult to automate; Like picking Fruits or Vegetables, you have to assess each individual Stalk as they're not going to grow to one uniform height.Even if you buzz cut the tops of the tallest Stalks, there are still going to be plenty of runts your RoboBlades will pass right over, letting your precious hybrid Corn genetics mix with whatever else happens to be down wind.Can it be automated?Sure, but it's one a billion other task you are going to have to automate!
>>11559828>>Protectionism isn't going to work here,>You're a fucking retarded.And since you could only just repeat that I am retarded three times, explain to me how a policy that hurts both economic growth AND economic welfare is going to help anyone?>I like anything that involves protecting workers and supporting worker rights.And no, he's sure as hell isn't going to do ANYTHING like that, fuck he's already shot himself in the foot with ICE raiding a Hyundai Battery Plant Construction site in Georgia.It not only pissed off the South Koreans for locking up their nationals that were here LEGALLY, but has now KNEECAPPED the supposed Manufacturing he claimed he wanted to "bring back to AMURICA!"
>>11559849>do you know why I started with the Buggy Whip makers?It's a strawman, hence me actually referring to the REALITY of what happened to all those buggy drivers. Horizontal mobility allowed all those people to find jobs elsewhere, because their skills could still be used or be applied elsewhere.>It is a shift, a change, but that change is inevitable!Yeah, change is inevitable, but what happens to all those humans whose jobs are getting replaced with AI/robots?Amazon's video talks about how all those warehouse jobs disappearing doesn't mean they no longer need humans, because they're going to need repairmen, but do they really need 750,000 repairmen? No, they probably need MAYBE 10,000 service workers to maintain those robots nationwide. And again, eventually robots can replace thsoe service workers.What about the 300,000 delivery drivers? Even that will be automated too.Again, AI is already replacing programmers, animators, editors, accountants, and many other jobs, so where can these people go, especially when AI is getting even better every year so that even humans who do more complex tasks can get replaced?Do they cart them all to the lithium mine? or just sent to the glue farm? You can't say flipping burgers, because they're already trying to automate that too and boy, people making 50k-200k sure would love going from their previously high paying jobs to doing menial tasks that still can't be automated for $15k a year (until robots can replace that).So many excess and underpaid workers in the future... surely nothing will go wrong within the next decade, because conditions like this have never led to bad things...Change isn't always a good thing, retard, hence protectionism being so vital. The government used to go after monopolies. They used to prevent them. They used to protect worker rights. they protected domestically made goods and products.
>>11559867>No, they probably need MAYBE 10,000 service workers to maintain those robots nationwide.Yeah, and they won't need people to make parts for the robots, or people to make shit for those people, because it's ROBUTTS ALL THE WAY DOWN!Your backwards ass economic policy is even more outdated than Reaganomics and your Boomer Doomerism isn't going to create any more jobs.You keep insisting that I'm the one plugging my ears hoping the problem just goes away, but that's literally all your Protectionism IS!So we do things the good old fashioned way, eh?A less efficient market system that literally only exist to keep people employed, because that worked SO WELL for the Soviets, and this Economic self-sabotage is going to make the rest of the world step back into the past with us because...?And this will also somehow prevent China from completely dominating the globe by becoming economic soft superpower in our place?Face it old man, you've got less of a grasp on this than I do, and I'm not sure I'm legally considered a person anymore!
>>11559876Again, you're ignoring the fact that robots are able to make robots. They've been making cars for at least 50 years now, except now they can do more complex tasks, thanks to computers being more advanced and now AI is stepping up to fill in the more difficult shit.Again, you'er ignoring the fact that technology never gets worse and continues improving year after year. So again, where are the millions of workers doing warehouse work, dock work, programming, editing, burgers, etc going to go? Again, your failed analogy was a failure, because automobilies only increased the amount of workers needed worldwide. AI/robots only decreases the amount needed.>So we do things the good old fashioned way, eh?Why not?What's wrong with going back to the 70s/80s/90s approach, before production started packed away to be started overseas?Cost of goods actually went up back then, because companies said that creating the factories overseas and in other countries cost them a ton of money... but that was a short term thing, despite the cost of production going waaay down and prices never went down with them. So companies made mad profit from overseas production and consumers were actually negatively affected by it, instead of ever seeing any benefits.Companies got richer and the trickle effect wasn't real, dude. Yet you're trying to say that AI/robots ramifications won't be real?You'er a fucking retard, made more obvious how you're trying to insert your black and white politics into this.Do you even work? Because something tells me either you're megarich or superpoor, so you won't be affected by society crumbling from the loss of jobs.
>>11559885>you're ignoring the fact that robots are able to make robotsAs in FACTORY Assembly Lines or actual SELF REPLICATION?!Because that's a BIG fucking difference!>Yet you're trying to say that AI/robots ramifications won't be real?No, I'm saying that even if you want to stick your fucking head in the sand and pine for them GOOD OLD DAYS, the rest of the world will move on without us!Like it or not, we're a part of a GLOBAL society, and the United States can't afford withdrawing from the world and turtling up just because CHANGE SCARY!!!Either we try to forge our own path or we end up being dragged down whatever road someone else makes.A Butlerian jihad isn't going to help!I'm all for Big Government stepping in for the little guy, but you can't force prosperity with the point of a sword, certainly not via some sort of Luddite Command Economy.You can't make a horse drink by holding it's head under the water, you are just drowning it at that point.Tariffs aren't a magical band-aid; Even used properly and with precision they are at BEST incentive to keep things local, and that's certainly not what this dumpster fire of an administration swinging them around like a drunk with a sledgehammer will do.
>>11559894>As in FACTORY Assembly Lines or actual SELF REPLICATION?!Again with you trying to downplay this with your ignorant strawman.BTW, did you know that when you see humans in assembly lines, that they're usually there as per union rules? When shit got automated, the union worked real hard to keep a single person somewhere along the line to do some menial task, like rotating a bread pan at the end. So 20 workers got replaced, except for that one guy who the president of the union owed a favor to.>we're a part of a GLOBAL society, and the United States can't afford withdrawing from the world and turtling up just because CHANGE SCARY!!!What a convincing argument you're making infavor for the death of the middle and lower class, because corporations gotta bring their profits up every quarter AND because what will the REST of the world thing? Oh gosh, to be socially shamed by the global community!Again, you're making all this shit up to avoid telling me what dock workers, programmers, journalists, accountants, warehouse workers, burger artisans, writers, artists, soldiers, delivery drivers, should do because they're losing their jobs to robots/ai.>b-but if their jobs aren't replaced now they never will be because technology gets worse over time!retard>A Butlerian jihad isn't going to help!>Luddite Command Economy.You retards sure love fallacies, because you can't actually make an factual logic to back up what you say. Might as well be telling me the government shouldn't have created safety laws to make work places not-dangerous and companies should never give their employees health insurance/other benefits, because it affects their bottom line.Using robots/ai/overseas production is only for the sake of lowering costs for a company. Again, there's literally zero benefits to the consumer, because we never got any savings in the past from that (or it's so rare i think it's zero). Again, it's only a DETRIMENT to society.
>>11559913Man I can't believe I wasted time trying to educate your willfully ignorant Boomer ass.>Oh gosh, to be socially shamed by the global community!Not social SHAME dumb ass, Economic LEADERSHIP and the diplomatic soft power that it brings!And of course I'm not telling you what these DOZENS of VERY DIFFERENT professions should do IF they are replaced by automation.There is no one-size fits all answer that you can pull out of your ass that's going to fix that, but it certainly isn't curling up into a little ball and crying for Mommy Government to make the BAD MACHINES go away!Your dull ass can't even come up with a synonym for retard, so of course my logic is sliding right off your smooth brain!Tell me, how are you going to stop somebody from underselling your local manufacturers when they can produce for hundreds if not THOUSANDS of times cheaper, at cost so ridiculously insignificant that the consumer can eat a 75% tariff AND STILL BUY IT CHEAPER THAN LOCAL?!How is your Mommy Government going to make that work?Commanding people to work specific quotas at specific jobs OR ELSE?!EXPLAIN TO THIS RETARD, IN EXCRUCIATING DETAIL, HOW YOUR PROTECTIONIST BULLSHIT IS SUPPOSE TO HELP!!!How curling up into a little ball like a pillbug is going to make the INEVITABLE MARCH OF PROGRESS STOP?!
>>11559922>Economic LEADERSHIP and the diplomatic soft power that it brings!Holy retard. The US already had that before AND in spades. There was literally no reason except GREED to fuck over their own citizens. And if economic leadership is so important, why not prove that by helping its own citizens again? If you've ever looked at economic reports, you'd know how bad it is for our middle and lower class, needing to work multiple jobs just to meet the same level of living we had in the 00s. Two entire generations are struggling and will never live as nicely as generation X and actual Boomers. Where's the economic leadership in that?>willfully ignorant BoomerLMAO. Says the zoomer who thought Boston Dynamics gave up on making robots after BigDog. Says the zoomer who threw around "reaganomics" only as the buzzword you know it as. Says the zoomer who can only shit out fallacies because you have no actual point, just desperate contrarian bullshit because you view things in black and white politics like a retardYou made me wonder if you're just a megarich lying shit protecting your interests, but the more you talk, the more you keep proving you're a poorfag without a job gettting cripple checks from the government for being a retard.>of course I'm not telling youNah, it's because you literally don't know, because you're a retard zoomer. Again, this is why oyu keep pretending that technology can't get any better or stagnates, because you know their jobs are being taken away.>IF they are replaced by automationOh, so pic is nothing but a lie then? Shit ,better tell those thousands of tech workers who have been getting fired that they actually weren't.>Your dull ass can't even come up with a synonymI'm not here to amuse you, retard. "Retard" fits you perfectly, so why would i choose another name for you?
>>11559965Oh god, you are literally projecting your own stupidity onto me...Should the Government help the middle and lower class?YES!But all tariffs are going to do is make shit more expensive for them WHILE ALSO making the markets more volatile!You want to know what has ACTUALLY been shown to work?Investing in Strong Social Safety Nets and Infrastructure, preferably paid for by thoroughly taxing the Rich!>Says the zoomer who thought Boston Dynamics gave up on making robots after BigDogThe FUCK?Shithead, of course Boston Dynamics is still making robots; The point was they shuttered their project to make a robotic pack mule because they couldn't make a platform that could outperform an animal legendarily known for it's uncooperative nature!You think I'm worried about complete robotic replacement when they can't even make a substitute for a literal jackass?>the more you keep proving you're a poorfag without a job gettting cripple checks from the government for being a retardI mean you're not wrong, but despite how badly NAFTA burned your ass, your rose-tinted nostalgia googles blind you to the fact that the 70's and 80's kinda sucked ASS economically.How the fuck is your Protectionism going to protect us from ANOTHER OIL CRISIS?"DRILL BABY DRILL" all you want, but that shit takes TENS OF MILLIONS OF YEARS to form, so the wells are going to dry up eventually.And Fossil Fuels are a resource we actually HAVE; The United States literally can't grow enough Coffee to meet its consumption.You want to bitch about me going to war, what about your non-existent kids going off to fight in South America for fucking Coffee?
>>11559965>keep pretending that technology can't get any better or stagnatesI'm not.By your own logic, replacement by automation is inevitable!You can go full Luddite all you want, but I'll let you in on a little secret; The Amish these days use Power Tools and hitch rides in Automobiles!See, their Religion forbids OWNING such conveniences, but it doesn't say anything about a "friend of the Community" owning that shit in their stead!So go ahead and hire some Mennonite carpenters and be amazed how you are paying artisan pricing using the same Nail guns as any other day laborer!
All these paragraphs fill me with sorrow. So much time and effort wasted. So much suffering. Desire, avarice and want are the root of suffering. Cast off unnecessary things like toys and learn to walk without them.
>>11560129But Toys are what make me the "Cool" Uncle!
>>11560076>you are literally projecting>I'm not.LOL, so why post about the BigDog being canceled? Again, you acted like that was THE END, yet the next one was even BIGGER. Why post about how RIGHT NOW they're "SLOW", like they'll never improved, and pretending that I'm talking about them being BETTER than humans? Endless fallacies, because you argue like an ignorant retard.Everytime I responded to you, you actually LEARNED something from me, so you changed your story/position a bit. How retarded are you that you don't think I didn't notice that?>You want to know what has ACTUALLY been shown to work?Brah, the entire first world has grown worse since trying to outsource their labor/production. Only the ones with small populations have less to worry about. No one is better off than they were in the 90s or 00s. Maybe this should just end, because it's literally a failed economic resource causing harm to the population.>How the fuck is your Protectionism going to protect us from ANOTHER OIL CRISIS?WTF does that have to do with anything? It's like the bullshit that tariffs caused the depression. Complete ignorance and fallacies, because you need to ignore what I've said to have any point. Again, what's wrong with being like the 60s? or even 90s? When we could have middle class jobs that weren't outsourced yet? This is why democrats were asking for tariffs to get those back in the 90s and 00s.>but think about the corporations bottom line and the international community!fuck you. sure the cat is out of the bag, but that's what protectionism is for and we need to do something better... before robots/ai make things even worse.You keep talking about luxury products (cars, coffee, etc), yet we're less and less able to afford them anymore. Yeah, people still buy them, but they're buying that shit on CREDIT more than ever, along with NECESSITIES. But since you're a retard, you wouldn't notice this because your handlers do most shit for you, huh?
>>11560364>you actually LEARNED something from meNo I didn't.Other than you are a delusional accelerationist whose nostalgia blinds him to the fact that he has no fucking clue what he's actually talking about.The BIGGER BigDog, the Legged Squad Support System, SHUTTERED IN 2015!The project is a decade DEAD at this point.You are the one who keeps screaming about ignorance and fallacies, yet you're the one who provides NO through logic on how your precious Neo-Luddite Protectionism will at all do ANYTHING other than leave us a poorer Second World country while China's Belt and Road Initiative gives them GLOBAL dominance!Because yeah, you geriatric jackass, how is doing things the GOOD OL' FASHIONED WAY going to help when nothings stopping China from bum rushing us with all those BAD NO-NO MACHINES, ON TOP OF THEIR ALREADY HAVING A MUCH LARGER LABOR POOL THAT THEY TREAT LIKE FUCKING FIREWOOD!!?!Go stick your fucking head back in the sand where your shit talking belongs!
>>11560440>No I didn't.LOL, again, because you're willfully ignorant, plugging your ears up, but you still needed to change your story with every post. move your goal post a little. So you still learned something, even if you don't want to believe it.>The project is a decade DEAD at this point.And they moved onto the NEXT thing. because that's generally how shit works. If something doesn't work, you move on. They advanced their technology, took everything that they learned, and are applying it to their NEXT robots (yes, instead of just one, they have multiple ones). Again, you're proving how ignorant you are about basic research and showing how you need to plug your ear holes to pretend shit doesn't improve.>You are the one who keeps screaming about ignorance and fallacies, yet you're the one who provides NO through logicOh, "NO THROUGH LOGIC" but a ton of logic about how the current systems are making shit worse for us. I'm no economist. I'm not a scientist either, but if the current system is making us WORSE, changes need to be made. Hence my point that laws need to be created by people who understand this better than me and not the assholes who are only interested in creating maximum profits at the detriment to everyone else. You understand jack shit and the shit you do understand you need to deny, so your opinion is worthless.Again, you want to pretend you're better than me, yet you can't even answer what current workers are supposed to do now that programming, warehouse work, dock work, artistry, etc are being replaced by AI/robots? You've only pointed to horse drawn carts to prove your case, not understanding an industry/object being replaced ≠ workers being replaced. Again, this is why there's more people working second jobs, because the loss of well paying jobs have been lost since the 90s and losses have increasedBut again, since you're a retard, this doesn't matter, because the government supports you with cripple bucks.
>>11560440also, i love how you point to China and their race to the bottom, like that was ever a good thing.Might as well be making an argument for slavery.
>>11560476>And they moved onto the NEXT thing.No, the project is DEAD.Sure Boston Dynamics is doing OTHER projects, but their work SPECIFICALLY making a Robotic Pack Mule has been dead FOR A DECADE!>You've only pointed to horse drawn carts to prove your case, not understanding an industry/object being replaced ≠ workers being replaced.Oh my fucking god, you don't even know what "The Fallacy of the Buggy Whip Maker" even IS?!You stupid dipshit, I literally started by pointing out you are using a codified fallacy!In short, businesses that fail to adapt to the changing market landscape, like your Neo-Luddite Protectionism doing things "DA GUUD OLD FASHIONED WYE!", are doomed to failure.Your bullheaded refusal of the problem DOES NOT WORK.Command Economies, which is basically what you are asking for when you demand the Government give everyone a job, DO NOT FUCKING WORK, the god damn Soviets showed us that!My opinion is worthless, but the diarrhetic shit dribbling from your mind is ACTIVELY HARMFUL!You want to help Labor, campaign for an increase to the Minimum Wage!Don't cheer this dumpster fire of an administration for pouring gasoline on the god damn flames.YOU DO NOT KNOW WHAT THE FUCK YOU ACTUALLY WANT!!!So quote my late father, "quit your god damn bellyaching you sucalf, suck it up buttercup" and come at me with something proven to be detrimental before your ancient ass was even born!I am not here for Corpo profits, I am here because useful morons like yourself allow them to obfuscate the actual solutions to your issues!YOU.ARE.THEIR.USEFUL.IDIOT!
>>11560604>the project is DEAD.Yeah, and this project is dead too (this was developed before SR71 blackbird and aNOTHER one existed before this one). AGain, you don't understand how technology and research works, because you're retarded.Tons and tons of projects are created only to get canceled, because they start production on the REAL thing, because the project was only for the sake of research (usually).>you don't even know what "The Fallacy of the Buggy Whip Maker" even IS?I already explained how your analogy doesn't even work (twice) and how the real world works, but you want to pretend that I don't understand it? How many times do you need to confirm you're retarded?Again, nothing but pretending, creating fallacies, because you want to avoid actually explaining what you say. You double down on shit that was proven false and stupid.>Command Economies, which is basically what you are asking for when you demand the Government give everyone a job, DO NOT FUCKING WORKLMAO, so why were you just praising China a post ago? We should fear them, emulate them, but IT DOESN'T WORK? And I haven't even been advocating a command economy. Tariffs, boycotts, regulations, etc have all existed in the US for over a hundred years.You simply don't understand shit, so your logic is completely schizophrenic. Nothing but 2+2=smurfs^3.>campaign for an increase to the Minimum WageOh boy, i love prices going up and maybe even inflation! Nevermind this still doesn't solve the loss of jobs. I bet you also want to give everyone $25,000 so they can buy a house! Surely this influx of money won't drive prices up even more!Keep proving you're a retard who has no idea what he's talking about.I'd really love to hear what you had in mind what jobs the millions of programmers, dock workers, warehouse workers, truckers, artists, secretary and hundreds of other jobs that are being replaced with ai/robots can getI need another good laugh.
>>11560644>Oh boy, i love prices going up and maybe even inflation!Holy fucking shit, when I think you've hit the rock bottom of dumbassery, you go plunging right through it!You were never even fucking pro-labor in the first place.And you have been advocating a command economy; What else are you going to call trying to force everything to be made, bought, and sold solely in the United States?Which, AGAIN, is LAUGHABLY naïve at best, dangerously delusional at worse, and all your talk of a fantasy bygone era makes me assume the latter!Which again, you want a god damn fantasy that can NOT actually exist.Your exact kind of Protectionism fueled the GREAT FUCKING DEPRESSION, but because you are so laughably ignorant of history, you deny objective reality!And YES, you want EXACTLY what they tried to force at the beginning of the 20th century, here is some postcard propaganda from the era!So WHAT in the hell are you doing differently than what they did back then?!You do not even fucking know what it is you want to do, clearly do not even understand ANY of the subjects your discussing, yet you want to claim you have the right idea when all you've been doing is spewing SHIT!
>>11560700>retard still saying retarded shitOf course, you've never read about what happens when wages go up and probably didn't follow how much more expensive California got too since their raise in minimum wage.Just google "minimum wage inflation inflation" . tons and tons of articles about what happens. Most will say that inflation probably won't happen, but only IF minimum wage only goes up a little. The minimum wage you're advocating goes much higher than anything these articles, studies, etc would want. >You were never even fucking pro-labor in the first place.LOL. Says the retard who's denying that robots/ai aren't taking over, was praising China abusing their dirt farmers to make shit super cheap and how we need race to the bottom with them.>Your exact kind of Protectionism fueled the GREAT FUCKING DEPRESSIONLMAO. Again, you learned something from me. Earlier you claimed it created the depression, but since i corrected you, now it fueled it. Since we're not in a depression, and most of the planet already doesn't buy our shit anymore, guess what's going to happen?Nevermind since you talked about economic leadership, maybe we can have a little unity for the lower and middle class by supporting products made by them and showing other countries that they should support that shit too?Oh wait, no, I'm talking to a retard who's getting cripple bucks from the government and is angry his Transformer costs $1 too much now, so everything needs to be made by child slave labor and robots, huh?Go fuck yourself, retard.Also, i really love how you keep not answering any questions. Again, what jobs are the millions of unemployed people going to get as AI/robotics continues replacing jobs? Weren't you just indirectly praising China a few posts ago? Why were you saying Bigdog was canceled if not to say that robotics aren't the future? Why double back and say that robots are too slow, if not to imply that they' can't improve?
>>11560714>The minimum wage you're advocating goes much higher than anything these articlesWhen did I ever even give you a fucking number?I'm not denying Automation is happing, I'm just not a delusional hysteric fuckwit screaming that the Gubmint needs to make everything just like the good old days (Which you yourself admitted to not knowing how the fuck that is suppose to work) because the MACHINES will replace us yesterday.Hence the story of BigDog and how it ultimately failed in what it set out to do; Create a Robotic Pack Mule.But no, we have to something something Tariffs because that will something something make America GREAT again... despite the fact you can't even decide on what era you want to go back to!>maybe we can have a little unity for the lower and middle class by supporting products made by themWhich is why they tried to do at the turn of the 20th Century, fuck probably WORD FOR FUCKING WORD what you are asking, and that CAUSED a GREAT DEPRESSION!And doubling down on that bullheaded isolationism MADE IT FUCKING WORSE!So President McKinley, what are you actually doing different THIS TIME AROUND?
>>11560732>When did I ever even give you a fucking number?Because your post was in response to my post where i was talking about how there's more people working second jobs, becuse the loss of well paying jobs have been lost since the 90s?Whether you're playing dumb or this is more deflection because your ignorant bullshit got caught, the minimum wage you're advocating for would be very damaging.>I'm not denying Automation is happingLOL, you've made at least hald a dozen posts downplaying it and STILL you're denying that robots are becoming better single day, hence calling bigdog a failure.Again, once they reach the point that's required to flip a burger and take out the trash or mine lithium, what's stopping companies from using them, especially when people like you think we need to use the cheapest labor available?>CAUSED a GREAT DEPRESSION!LOL, so because i pointed out that you learned from me that the great depression wasn't caused by tariffs and moving your goalpost to saying it was "fueled", you're going back to saying "caused"?That's some low IQ contrarianism. No wonder you're going back to your retarded black and whites politics spiel. You're regressing back to what you felt safe with, despite being it being proven complete bullshit.BTW, great job at avoiding answering anything. Again, what jobs are the millions of unemployed people going to get as AI/robotics continues replacing jobs? Weren't you just indirectly praising China a few posts ago? Why were you saying Bigdog was canceled if not to say that robotics aren't the future? Why double back and say that robots are too slow, if not to imply that they' can't improve?Nevermind you ignore the point about how tariffs matters way less now: a lot of the world isn't already buying US shit and have been tariffing the fuck out of US products even before this year (pic is 2015). BTW BTW, great depressions tariffs you keep referring to was ~20%.
>>11560732>>11560746What are you guys even arguing about at this point?
>>11560746>the minimum wage you're advocating for would be very damagingAND TARIFFS AREN'T?!>what's stopping companies from using themWell once they have a robot be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly, then absolutely nothing.We both agree such progress is inevitable.The difference is I know that a single machine capable of doing all of the above is effectively a human being ANYWAYS, trading flesh people for robot people, and that automating each of those activities separately are herculean tasks in their own right.It's clear you've never seen a Roomba operate if you think people will trust automation with "simple" task like diapering a baby.And no, I'm not regressing, I actually went back and looked shit up!The original Smoot-Hawley Tariff Act couldn't have caused the Great Depression because it was passed right at the beginning, but it was just the last of DOZENS of Tariff Acts over the preceding decades.>what jobs are the millions of unemployed people going to get as AI/robotics continues replacing jobs?I don't know, I'm not a job councilor or have any experience in the dozens if not hundreds of fields you keep adding to your list.I can't be "competitively employed" in the first place, and THAT was a DECADE AND A HALF ago!>great depressions tariffs you keep referring to was ~20%.Really?Because the Dingley Act averaged 47% over its lifetime, starting off at 52%/>>11561050>What are you guys even arguing about at this point?Me: Tariffs not good, especially when Orange Man uses them as recklessly swung sledgehammers.Him: Tariffs will RETURN US TO TRADITION! People need to work for a living, so we should all become Luddites!
>>11561050>>11561066Also Him: People these days need to work two jobs to make ends meet, BUT DO NOT RAISE THE MINIMUM WAGE as that would be economically destabilizing... but Tariffs aren't!
>>11561050I've been arguing laws and rules that benefit workers should be created and existing laws/rules should be modified too, since they've extremely one sided for corporations and hasn't benefitted the consumer nor worker since for nearly 50 years now.The other guy has a simplistic view of politics, so evil side is bad and good side good and he needs to oppose evil side no matter what, even if it means fucking over the worker (he's a retard who gets cripple bucks from the government, so he doesn't care if workers get fucked over).He's a complete retard.>>11561066>AND TARIFFS AREN'T?!Brah, how many times do i need to point out that tariffs have existed for hundreds of years, are currently in place in other countries at higher rates than you keep pointing is super duper bad, and the past is irrelevant due to how much the world has changed in the past 95 years since the event you keep talking about?Oh you keep ignoring that, because facing reality would mean you'd be a normal person like me and would need to agree with me.You've already proven you're willing to contradict yourself and going back to your proven false arguments because I pointed out you learned something from me.I'm getting nothing but contradictory nonsense from you now, because you're just arguing just to argue now.>the Dingley Act LOL, not the one you've been talking about. Nice goalpost movement, retard. And that act started AFTER a depression. If you even did a little bit of reading, there was RAPID GROWTH in the economy, so this tariff actually benefitted the US.So way to prove yourself wrong, retard.... and since you're retarded, i need to explain that no one would knows exactly when a depression ends and takes a year or two AFTERWARD to collect the data. So when the tariff passed, no one actually knew if the depression ended or not AND the year the tariff passed was the first year of economic growth, hence probably being the reason the depression ended.
>>11561374As you can see, my opponent here is the retarded one; Not only is he ignorant that the very Protectionism he brays for caused the Great Depression, but that I mentioned Smoot-Hawley first means that the multiple Tariff acts enacted in the preceding decades DID DO NOTHING WRONG!He is likely a retiree with no family to speak of, hence defending Trump's dumbass Tariff Policies on fucking /toy/.
>>11561515I can't tell if you're some troll who's just repeating the retard's talking points just to troll or you're the retard who's regressed to his original talking poitns after being proven wrong, because all your new goalpost movements were also proven wrong. So what do you think about the analysis about California's raise in minimum wage did nothing but make things more expensive, posted here >>11560714 ? Here's a source for that https://www.calrest.org/sites/main/files/file-attachments/beacon_economics_whitepaper_california_minimum_wage_cost_living_10_31_2024.pdfLearn something.And what do you think about the Dingley Act in aiding the economic recovery from longest depression experienced by the US, by imposing the largest tariffs ever done by the US? Here's some interesting facts about automation. Manufacturing of goods is actually worse today thanks to automation. Since machines are much more simplistic than humans, new ways of production needed to be created for the machine to do it. This leads to shittier refridgerators, tvs, clothes, tires, furniture, heavy machinery (cars, trucks, planes, etc) and thousands of other automation-supported products.This is why clothes, towels, bedding, etc from before ~2005 was more durable and are still surviving to this day. Stuff you bought just 1 years ago is in worse shape than vintage clothes from the 70s.You've undoubtedly noticed this with electronics too, not just consoles or TVs, but air conditioners, furnaces, washing machines, and other shit that used to last life times. Zoomers like you don't know how bad shit is now and companies no longer want to make quality.Did you know that teenagers unemployment is way up in CA? Despite making up the majority of applicants for shitty jobs like fast food and grocery stores, they're not being hired, because they're taken older people who normally don't apply for those types of jobs. People in desperate need of those second jobs or any work at all.
>>11561066>>11561068>>11561374Well to be completely honest, you both sound gay and should just exchange email addresses or something so you can continue this debate in private. The rest of us don't care about your word vomit.
>>11561610>And what do you think about the Dingley Act in aiding the economic recovery from longest depression experienced by the US, by imposing the largest tariffs ever done by the US?The fact that it was one of the lead ins to the GREAT Depression kind of nullifies that.>Since machines are much more simplistic than humans, new ways of production needed to be created for the machine to do it.My goodness, you actually looked into automated production for once!Notice how new methods of production are HUGE fucking investments that will probably cost more than hiring human workers?>Zoomers like you don't know how bad shit is now and companies no longer want to make quality."Oh Grandpa~ tell me 'bout the good old days~">Did you know that teenagers unemployment is way up in CA? Despite making up the majority of applicants for shitty jobs like fast food and grocery stores, they're not being hired, because they're taken older people who normally don't apply for those types of jobs. People in desperate need of those second jobs or any work at all.Well Sunshine State, won't you be happy to know that manufacturing jobs here in the Midwest have a bias for younger workers because the Employers don't have to provide them nearly as good of benefits as Senor Employees had secured for themselves!Greed fuels Capitalism, and so while you are right that an unregulated Capitalist Market will screw EVERYONE over for a few cents profit, realize the current administration is full on DEREGULATION and its dumbass trade wars are making things worse!>>11561881>The rest of us don't care about your word vomit.Fair, I'm just really offended by just how wrong this old man is in his yelling at clouds.
>>11561927>The fact that it was one of the lead ins to the GREAT Depression kind of nullifies that.LMAO. Holy shit. You're straight up making shit up now, because you're a retard who's never read history and repeats bullshitThe US had over 10 years of RAPID economic GROWTH under that act and it was REPLACED by another act because it was TOO GOOD: it made companies so rich they could become giant monopolies.And since the government was still for the people back then and recognized that bad shit was happening, the government started breaking up these monopolies.You'd be defending and arguing for monopolies if this was the early 1900s because >what about progress! breaking up monopolies is a command economy!>you actually looked into automated production for once!I've always known, hence explaining it and making a point. You missed the point, because despite shit becoming worse because of automation, people kept buying the worse shit. Retards like you don't care about consequences and that's why we're left with no alternatives. You're told that automation makes things cheaper for us, but how come prices never go down? Again, I've pointed out that prices actually went UP since the companies needed to pay off the short term costs of creating factories overseas and the only thing that actually became cheaper were just COSTS. The consumer never saw any real benefits from this.Company's profit margins was the only benefit and this is what you've been defending this entire thread. You don't care about the worker, you're just afraid of the company's profit margin will decrease and how that'll affect you're able to afford with your retard bucks the government sends you.Also, way to ignore how California's minimum wage laws made everything more expensive for Californians. How much cheaper is it in the midwest? A poorfag there has better buying power and housing options than someone in San Jose, San Diego, San Francisco, San Bernardino or San Whatever
>>11562379>You missed the pointNo I didn't.The point you keep leaping over is cost.Even just increasing Minimum Wage apparently raises overall cost of living as you say, how do you expect these corporations to pay workers Living Wages?To keep their prices from ballooning, these corporations are going to seek FURTHER deregulation, so as to better exploit their work force to squeeze out any possible profits.So wouldn't you know it, we're back to "the good old days" when children were made to work in factories.Hell, in my state, they're trying to bring this back so the kiddos can work in MEATPACKING PLANTS!But yeah, I'm guessing you're just assuming we can enslave "certain people" to do all of this dangerous, ineffective labor, because that's SO much better than offshoring.
>>11562430>The point you keep leaping over is cost.I literally talked about costs, you illiterate retard.TO REPEAT:Retards like you don't care about consequences and that's why we're left with no alternatives. You're told that automation makes things cheaper for us, but how come prices never go down? Again, I've pointed out that prices actually went UP since the companies needed to pay off the short term costs of creating factories overseas and the only thing that actually became cheaper were just COSTS. The consumer never saw any real benefits from this.>Even just increasing Minimum Wage apparently raises overall cost of living as you say, how do you expect these corporations to pay workers Living Wages?You aren't, because minimum wage jobs should be for CHEAP SHIT. Fast food cost as much as restaurant food because of the raise in minimum wage now. Dollar store and discount stores are no longer cheap. Cheap shit was cheapshit because of cheap labor.If you want LIVABLE WAGES, that's what a ton of manufacturing jobs that were shipped overseas were able to offer. The products that hese anufacturing jobs produced weren't cheap before and they NEVER became cheap after being moved overseas.LIVABLE WAGES have been coming from programming, writing, editing, artist, and other jobs that are CURRENTLY being phased out due to AI.Since these jobs have been sent OVERSEAS or disappearing, desperate people are moving to MINIMUM WAGE jobs, thus increasing costs for everyone. And these desperate people become even moer desperate, because despite more pay, they can afford LESS. This is literally happening, yet you're denying shti that's right in front of your face, because you're a retarded zoomer who doesn't leave his house. Again, more laws need to be created and current laws/rules need to be modified to fix this shit, but no... that would harm the company's profit margins, so fuck the worker. Again, you'd be arguing for monopolies, because of fearmongering.
>>11562472>that's what a ton of manufacturing jobs that were shipped overseas were able to offerBecause that's cheaper for the Company because they can get away with paying wages that are pennies on the dollar here in the US, AND don't have pay for those pesky Union won Benefits or even bother with Health and Safety Regulations!And if MINIMUM wage increases cause cost to skyrocket, why won't that happen with slightly better than minimum wage?Remember, Corpos exist to make profits go UP.You think they are going to pay a living wage out of the goodness of their hearts?NO!So you are going to have the Government come in and FORCE them?While I like the sentiment, that will get you labelled a filthy communist trying to infringe upon the invisible hand of the market!>Again, more laws need to be created and current laws/rules need to be modified to fix this shitWhile I'm not necessarily against this, Tariffs and Protectionism are proven to be extremely poor methods of doing this even with the best of intentions, and the current administration is NOT PRO-WORKER!My gosh, the supposed billionaire manchild has more in common with Corpo big wigs than you or me, IMAGINE THAT?!
>>11562486>So you are going to have the Government come in and FORCE them?REtard, that's literally what has happened for over a hundred years. Tariffs. Safety regulations. Monopoly laws. Tons and tons of shit that benefited the workers that was created and used by our government.So much shit has become deregulated that everything we've workd for in the past 100 years has become undone and here you are, defending corporations and conglomerates interests because your transformers will get too expensive if their profit margins are hurt.>Tariffs and Protectionism are proven to be extremely poorProven by whom and what? You haven't offered any examples of this being true. you lied about tariffs starting the depression. You even exampled an older tariff that proved yourself wrong, because that tariff helped the economy recover from one of the worst depressions ever and expanded our economy to such great heights that monopolies were able to form.Oh, but tthat's filthy communism or command economy if the government breaks them up and creates new tariffs to fix that? You have the worst logic ever, retard. Again, you're basically defending monopolies from the 1900s, you retard.Everything you're arguing for has only benefitted corporations and business, and not you or the worker.
>>11562486>And if MINIMUM wage increases cause cost to skyrocket, why won't that happen with slightly better than minimum wage?How fucking retarded are you? When you raise the minimum wage, that becoems the new minimum wage. Again, California has had a raise in minimum wage year after y ear, and each year prices having only gone up. IF you look at an earlier chart, you can see how San Francisco riasing the minimum wage law for their own city make costs skyrocket in just their own city (2014) whereas in LA (and the rest of the US) costs actually went down (until LA also raised their minimum wage due the new CA law).More people are moving away from California because they can't afford to live there anymore, because liveable wage jobs are becoming rarer, due to AI taking over and jobs being exported.These livable wage jobs produced products and services that commanded prices that could support the cost of production/labor. Fast food, grocery stores, etc cant support those costs beyond MIMIMUM WAGE labor, thus higher prices when wages go up. If a person works TWO minimum wage jobs, thus making it harder for younger workers to find a job, it's not raising costs for a storeYeah, these stores have greedy bosses and owners too, but... is your point that we should force regulations on them too? I mean, tariffs and market regulations had already been enough until the 1950s/60s. I shouldn't have needed to create a second post, but since I'm talking to a retard who never passed high school, i need to explain this shit.
>>11562598>exampled an older tariff that proved yourself wrong, because that tariff helped the economy recover from one of the worst depressions ever and expanded our economy to such great heights that monopolies were able to form.It didn't help recover from "the worst depressions ever" if it PRECEEDED THE GREAT DEPRESSION!And how am I the one defending Corpo profits when your Protectionism supposedly help monopolies form?Tariffs aren't what break up monopolies Moron, THOSE ARE ANTI-TRUST LAWS!>>11562600>These livable wage jobs produced products and services that commanded prices that could support the cost of production/labor.No, they don't.Obviously they can't if they offshored and still maintained or increased prices like you claim.And clearly your creaky /pol/ ass knows nothing about the rise of the McJob, how the Corpos have abused all those minimum wage laborers that they deliberately don't pay them enough to still qualify for Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Programs.That's the shit MY generation had to GROW UP WITH, where minimum wage and unpaid internships are exploited so Corpos can make MORE money, and that's the INTRO level shit.Anything better requires a decade of experience that you'd only get by being an unpaid intern, and even then you'd be fired off in a couple of years for another generation of unpaid interns who will do the job for even LESS money!Tariffs DO NOT DO WHAT YOUR STUPID ASS THINKS THEY DO!AT BEST, they can lean the market to preferring more domestic production, but that requires knowing what can be reasonably taxed and done so without starting a giant trade war.I'm surprised you even passed high school in your day, considering how ignorant you are on basic economics, history, and civics...
>>11562605>It didn't help recover from "the worst depressions ever" if it PRECEEDED THE GREAT DEPRESSION!holy shit, WAT?You think because tariffs don't permanently fix the economy, they're bad?LOL WAT????? Holy shit, wat. You're a complete moron.>Obviously they can't if they offshored and still maintained or increased prices like you claim.LMAOHoly fuck. Again, you're basically saying that slave labor should be brought back, because they can make a profit off that, because corporations need to make more profits than the year before and the year before that, which is the only reason that manufacturing was moved overseas in the first place.Companies were still making money, tons of profit every year, but since they figured out they could make even more profits by shipping them to third world countries, they did that.Holy fuck, you're nothing but a retarded who's literally advocating total worker replacement and corporation interests only.>Tariffs DO NOT DO WHAT YOUR STUPID ASS THINKS THEY DO!LOL, again, they literally did and this is why you need to make shit up, despite me posting multiple charts and links to how they work and benefit countries multiple times in history.Facts > your retard beliefs that you likely got from a 15 second tiktok video that you didn't even understand>Tariffs aren't what break up monopolies Moron, THOSE ARE ANTI-TRUST LAWS!no one said this, you illiterate retard. it's just more shit you need to make up.pic showing the death of the middle class.
You ladies have been arguing for days. Give it a rest.
>>11562620>literally advocating total worker replacement and corporation interests onlyNo dipshit, I'm not advocating for the Corpos.I'm trying to explain to you the market realities that you are apparently blind to thanks to your rose tinted bifocals.Corpos will do whatever will get them the maximum profit.You want them to invest locally?You have to entice them financially, and not just via taxing them though the ass for doing it elsewhere.You have to grease the wheels with some kind of local advantage that will somehow help their bottom line.Usually that's via things like Infrastructure and Social Support; If you can keep their product flowing much more smoothly than Timbuctoo, that is going to help them make money.Same with Social Supports; If you are footing some of the bill to keep their Workforce productive, the less they have to worry about turnover and training cost.>>11562620>no one said this, you illiterate retard.>>11562600>Yeah, these stores have greedy bosses and owners too, but... is your point that we should force regulations on them too? I mean, tariffs and market regulations had already been enough until the 1950s/60s.>>11562379>The US had over 10 years of RAPID economic GROWTH under that act and it was REPLACED by another act because it was TOO GOOD: it made companies so rich they could become giant monopolies.>And since the government was still for the people back then and recognized that bad shit was happening, the government started breaking up these monopolies.You literally said this you moron!Finally, I noticed something odd; That "Golden Era" you keep wanting to return to, somehow stretching from the 1960s to 2000.According to your own Infograph, that was an era of record LOW Tariffs!It's almost as if you have even less of a clue about this than I do.>>11562668>You ladies have been arguing for days. Give it a rest.I know, but his ignorance stings SO BAD!
>>11562945>No dipshit, I'm not advocating for the Corpos.Literally are, retard.You keep defending the way things are by saying that corporations shouldn't be regulated by the government because "command economy", despite the government constantly regulating the economy and businesses with laws like tariffs, anti-trust laws, safety laws, minimum wage laws, worker laws, etc etc etc.You say that corporations NEED to ship the jobs overseas, because profits must go up!, despite profits not needing to go up so high to insane levels. Middle and lower class has been negatively affected by that though.By your logic, corporations NEED to use slavery, because profits must go up! Except NOPE, the government intervened with a war, because human rights are a thing (and other economic factors).By your logic, corporations NEED to become monopolies, because profits must go up! Except no, the government intervenes because it affected other companies negatively.The government has always intervened when shit has a negative effect, except now that corporations are profiting more than ever and negatively affecting worker.Again, this just shows that you're a retarded zoomer, because you think everything in the past is the way it should be and nothing should change ever again. Very conservative mindset.>You literally said this you moron!LMAO. You're fucking retarded. Those are 2 SEPERATE THINGS, that happened at SEPARATE times. The new tariffs that replaced the old tariffs happened ten years before monopolies that were created were broken up, because they were TOO beneficial to corporations. The US also had to create new anti-trust laws to actually break up the monopolies, like 6 years later. Again, notice the government actually doing shit in the past, whereas today they're incredibly buddy buddy with these corporationsAgain, you've been proving you don't know shit about history, economics, tariffs or ANYTHING you're blabbing aboutYou're nothing but a retarded zoomer
>>11563367>you think everything in the past is the way it should beThat would be you, except instead of accepting why things happened the way they did, you insist on an alternate reality where the Government could do no wrong.Thus you have to shove words into my mouth, turning my explanations as to why Corporations WILL do the shitty things they do into a defense of those actions.Also you glossed right over the fact that I advocated for the Government doing more than simply bullying corporations into behaving, as well as your "good old days" being an era of historic LOW Tariffs.No wonder we have to fix your shit Boomer!
>>11563557>doesn't deny defending corporations>ignores how wrong he is because he's illiterate and doesn't know shit about history>still promoting a conservative mindset that new laws and regulations shouldn't be created because the ones in place are all that are needed>using my own logic against me is putting words into my mouth>>b-but you shouldn't use laws to make them do things like in the past, but incentivize them insteadLMAO. again, you're defending corporations AND want to give them even more money/loans/benefits just to throw the worker a fucking BONE.Again, you're promoting the fucking trickle down effect (explanations for retards: no, it's not just a term used for taxes only. it also applied to corporations, trade, econ, tech, and more), which has already been proven not to benefit anyone but the upper classBTW, i never said the golden era was from the 1960s to 2000s. I said that it was after the 1960s that corporations were really starting to screw workers over, which you can clearly see in most of the charts I've posted. Again, since you're an illiterate retard, I'll need to repeat that things were just better than they are today because there were still middle class jobs up til the 90s and 00s, because those hadn't been outsourced or shipped overseas yet. Again, most of the lower class jobs started being shipped out around the 60s.Again, this shit isn't a secret and you can see a direct correlation in every chart.But again, since you're an illiterate retard, you're going to continue ignoring most of what I've said (and because you don't want to admit you learned anything from me and got proven wrong).also>bullying corporationsLMAOGotta leave them alone, eh, corpo white knight?
>>11563591>want to give them even more money/loans/benefits just to throw the worker a fucking BONENo, I actually want to focus more on infrastructure and social supports, since those will help EVERYONE.You've convinced yourself that I'm against new laws and regulations; I'm NOT!I just know due to history that your protectionism strong-arming is going to be actively detrimental FOR EVERYONE!And whatever the fuck you've arbitrarily decided counts as "middle class jobs" still exist state side; The biggest manufacturing employer in my state is John Deere.But GUESS WHAT?!They've had to do massive layoffs because increased duties on parts and components, as well as a market flooded with decent products to begin with, means they can't support those jobs!That's what your syphilis ridden old brain doesn't get; The post war economic boom was always going to be a TEMPORARY thing.You can't force companies to make shit there isn't a market for just to create jobs.There has to be a DEMAND to warrant SUPPLY!Fuck, you've decried "Grocery Stores" as "Minimum Wage shit" in your arguments.You want to know what shit is in demand here in Iowa?Groceries that aren't from a Wal-mart at best, maybe a Dollar Store if you are lucky!Our ACTUAL Grocery Stores are rather premium middle class jobs.Hell Aldi, the "discount Grocery," has probably benefited the most from Self-checkout, as their minimalist staffing often resulted in long lines due to a singular Cashier on duty.So what is it that you want DONE here Anon?On-shoring?That requires a hell of a lot more than simple financial intimidation, especially not the flippant and slap-dash version used by the Mango Mussolini.Better workers rights?The first half of the 20th century is kind of infamous for industrial disasters and general atrocities, most horrendous of which was the Triangle Shirtwaist Factory fire.Hell, the financial fuckery of the 60's onwards is quiet quaint in comparison to the Monongah mining disaster...
>>11563701Everything you've said are empty phrases and words, because you've proven you have no knowledge and are just repeating shit you heard on tiktok without understanding. Every single fact I've given to you and every point where I've proven you wrong, you ignore, deny, and downplayYou propose shit about social support and infrastructure that will help EVERYONE, but that shit happens year after year, when every president makes promises and signs agreements, but every single time it's basically 1 worker's job being saved for every 20 that are laid off. It's nothing but concessions, while the company is enriched with new loans, cheaper land, exclusive contracts, deregulations, less oversight, etc.This has been ongoing for 50+ years, where the company benefits greatly and the worker is thrown a bone, and you want to pretend you're NOT advocating for the corporations? Agani, it shows your ignorance, because you think that shit actually works and don't know how little it helps the worker>"discount Grocery," has probably benefited the most from Self-checkout, as their minimalist staffing often resulted in long lines due to a singular Cashier on duty.LMAO. Again, your ignorance of being a retarded zoomer, because you don't care about WORKERS and how selfish you are because this benefits only YOU. Maybe they should have hired more HUMANS, instead of automation. Sinceyou're not old enough, every single check out lane in grocery stories were manned every day, and not just for holidays. The bigger grocery stores were even open 24/7. That all changed sometime in the late 90s. >b-b-but their bottom line!Again, you adcovate only for companies, to the point that your logic can be used to defend slavery and monopolies.>grocery stores are premium middle class jobsLMAO. https://www.payscale.com/research/US/Industry=Grocery_Store_or_Supermarketthis isn't even CA minimum wage, yuo ignorant retard.the dips in PIC is from jobs being unavailable, btw.
>>11564389>but that shit happens year after year, when every president makes promises and signs agreements, but every single time it's basically 1 worker's job being saved for every 20 that are laid offSo the Government CAN'T do shit about it then?>Maybe they should have hired more HUMANS, instead of automation. Sinceyou're not old enough, every single check out lane in grocery stories were manned every day, and not just for holidays.And you don't know how an Aldis works.Again, they try and have minimal staff to keep cost down, usually pulling double duty as Stocker AND Casher.They did this before Self-checkout was ever a thing by the way, so they rarely had more than two registers open at a given time, and only about three or four IN TOTAL.Now they have two manned checkouts, one constantly manned, and six Self-checkouts that greatly free up the manned lane from incidental purchases.And HEY, now they can use some of their manpower to do CURBSIDE PICKUP!All the while maintaining a staff of FIVE people the entire time!That's the reality your dumb, senile ass can't comprehended; You have to have something for someone to DO to give them a job.Hiring more people means your cost go UP, your prices then have to GO UP, so a business must constantly balance its employment with its WORKLOAD!But you, LIKE ME, can't just pull a new job out of our asses.Fuck man, are we sure you aren't the jobless retard here?You going to tell me people should mine coal by hand because that creates more jobs, even though coal mining by hand is extremely dangerous AND hazardous to ones health, AND WOULD ONLY RAISE THE PRICE OF COAL!
>>11564405>So the Government CAN'T do shit about it then?LOL, I've already given MULTIPLE examples of how the governemtn CAN fix that andm MULTIPLE charts showing beneficial results>And you don't know how an Aldis works.I know exactly how it works, retard, hence pointing out how it used to work. Again, everything you've talked about is for the benefit of the COMPANY and NOT the worker. Aldi isn't even cheaper than normal grocery stores, since aldi shit is 90% STORE BRAND generic products. So again, the workers getting fucked doesnt really benefit the consumer either.You want to pretend I'm some NEET, but you didn't even know grocery store jobs are minimum wage places and you apparently don't even leave your house, since you have no idea what the prices are like in grocery stores, because you're a retard getting retard bucks from the government.Every single post you've been white knighting corporation policies and showing how ignorant you are repeating the trickle down economy bullshit.>Hiring more people means your cost go UP, your prices then have to GO UPAgain, with this logic, we need to have SLAVEs and create MONOPOLIEs, huh?Again, thanks to shipping jobs overseas and outsourcing, profit margins increased to crazy high points. Again, the consumer NEVER saw the benefits to that and prices actually increased, because they made the consumer PAY for shipping the jobs elsewhere. Should profit margins be that insane?Again, workers have been negatively affected by all this and the consumer sees little to no benefits, while the rich got richer.and here you are, defending corporation interests because you're afraid of prices increasing and don't give a shit about the collapse of the middle and lower class.pic is a chart showing workers needing to settle for lower paying jobs over the past 30 years. Ever since the 00s, the underemployment (underutilization = fewer middle class jobs) rate has increased. Death of the middle class.
Well, since this thread is about to die, i mgiht as well just say you're nothing but a bigotI've provided a ton of examples, links, and charts, backing up what I've said and proving you wrong. Yet you refused to learn anything, because you're close minded and extremely biased. You have a conservative mindset, because you don't think laws should be created to help workers, becasue you think the ones that already exist are enough and because yuo're pro-big businessYou got proven wrong when you claimed that tariffs caused the great depression. You got proven wrong when claiming tariffs are only negative. You yourself proved yourself wrong when exampling an older tariff that increased rates to the highest ever, which actually HELPED the US economy come out of one of the worst depressions in historyYou got proven wrong when you claimed AI/robotics aren/t improving. You got proven wrong when you claimed shit was being canceled/didn't workYou got proven wrong when claiming doing what's in the best interest of the companies is better for us. Middle class and lower class have been negatively affected because of their interests. You got proven wrong when you claimed raising minimum wage would help people out, when that's been proven it raises costs, affecting the lower class the most. You got proven wrong when claiming shitty jobs are actually middle class jobsThe only things you've proven is that you're a retard, illiterate, and pro-corporation interestsAnd these are only SOME examples of how fucking retarded and bigotted you are. I literally can't list them all in a single post, so these are the most retarded things you've done in this threadI'm sure you can make more shit up about me and make more fallacies but this is the end of the thread for mepic is more examples of how shit has gotten worse thanks to businesses fucking over the domestic worker. People needing to work multiple jobs or only find part time work has increased by 300% since the 60s.
>>11564429>>11564467You heard him folks, the Government should force you to dig coal by hand, because that creates jobs despite spiking cost AND getting people killed, because JOBS!!!God damn, do you even know what a Luddite actually is?Historically, they were a 19th-century movement of English textile workers who opposed the use of certain types of automated machinery due to concerns relating to worker pay and output quality.This is literally you!You want the Government to force us back into living a pre-industrial revolution life, because you think things were BETTER then.Fuck you buddy, my great grandparents didn't have indoor plumbing, I'm not as far removed from the toils of subsidence farming as your Californian costal ass!
