Despite being extremely cool, holograms and lenticular gimmick toys never seemed take off in the toy industry, attributed primarily to a lack of interest and high cost of production. I loved holograms as a kid and remember lenticular popularity peaking in the late 90s with things like chip packet lenticulars of Pokemon and Goosebumps. Have you got any holograms in your collection /toy/? Would you buy a modern toy featuring the gimmick?
>>11629315>Have you got any holograms in your collection /toy/?No.>Would you buy a modern toy featuring the gimmick?Hell yes. 80s holograms were cool as shit. The situation reeks of there being an unoffical rule that now limits hologram usage to "authenticity seals" on stuff now. That's crap. The tech had gotten cheap enough to do them for free on cereal boxes and even full magazine covers. Toy-makers would make good money off of full-card limited edition cardbacks.
Still working on completing my Super Naturals collection. Besides maybe two other lines I can't think of any toys that really featured holograms.
I wonder why holograms never took off, how hard could it possibly...oh
>>11629345I just tossed that middle one because the issue was too beat up now. The back even had a holo ad for McD's
>>1162935910k or so to generate the holograms. Honestly not even that bad
>>11629350Very cool.
>>11629359Thety did take off and were everywhere in the 80s and super-early 90s. There were even mall stores that sold nothing but hologram stuff. Thent hey just disappeared for everything but authenticity stickers for electronics, sports wear, and expensive watches.>>11629368Yet the tech got cheap enough for disposable cereal boxes.
I had a lot of Visionaries and Supernaturals as a very young kid. They were cool at the time.
>>11629350I love this line but its so strange. You have 6 figures with barely any thematic cohesion; Sir knight, an Indian, and literally just Thor VS Not skelletor, a snake charmer and an evil knight with a gun. Then to go with those we got two very large fantasy mounts in addition to... monster trucks which the figures just kinda stand in. Then finally a large medieval looking playset. I do wish they got to produce wave 2, the ideas just got more insane.
>>11629498The figures were produced around selling holograms which were cool as shit at the time. And it worked to moderate success, which is the best it could hope for without a half-hour infomercial cartoon promoting it 5 days a week.
>>11629359Went down this rabbit hole a few years back. They're still around, just the gimmick wore off and they became a common place security feature kind of thing.Theres a company that makes a kit to make your own. Kinda pricey (couple hundo) but it does work.>>11629368Less than that. Lasers are dirt cheap these days. The holographic film is a bit pricey if you want a simple no developer required type. I think the kind that requires developing chems is cheaper but comes with the headache of development.The old school way to stabilize the gear is an indoor sandbox, ideally on the basement level on concrete floor, and you fix all the stufff (object, plate, mirrors, laser) on the sand so its stable then set a timer for the laser and leave the room allowing the air to settle. Sound waves and air movement fucks that shit up. Not hard to do DIY. Its just not a very popular hobby anymore because its like normal photography with more steps and lots more limitations. Read up on holography. Shit is fun. Wish I had money to burn on it.
>>11629784Im really interesting doing it and incorporating it into some small projects. The general advice so far is that getting a laser with a workable coherence length, low temporal coherence and high spatial coherence is tricky though without spending around 3-4k in addition to costs associated with the workbench, working space, spatial filtering, thermal control if you want a decent exposure. It's very cool though and I only started looking into it this year. >>11629507I've got some experience with modelling and casting so my plan was to mess around with designing and casting a 5 POI sofubi figure in transparent materials with some suspensions. The body and head would be cast in two halves so I could laminate holograms between them inside the torso and head reasonably close to the surface. If producing the figures wasn't too costly after the initial setup I wanted work on resurrecting some of the Super Naturals prototypes that were designed for the second wave.
>>11629350Never heard of these, what an awesome idea.
>>11629315Because most if them are just gimmicks at the end of the day. You pick it up once, go "oh, cool" and then banish it to the depths of the toy chest. It's rarely integrated into actual play or an aesthetic of a toy.I had a couple but I hardly remember what they even were. I wouldn't mind seeing it return, as long as it had more substance than just a hologram visual.
Im going to dump some compilation images of prototypes and the original hologram concepts from the Super Naturals line. Images are mostly from another collector who managed to acquire them from the original designers.
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>>11630078Figures from series 1 were planned to be re-released in series 2 with an updated full face plate design to re-use previous tooling.
>>11630080Interestingly series 2 had leg articulation planned, the prototypes currently live at Cincy Toy Museum.
>>11630081Concepts for an unusually scaled third mount, a centaur with a massive human torso.
>>11630083Series 3 or canned designs that failed to make it to the prototype phase.
>>11630084Some of the later slate stage concepts that appear to be the villains for series 2. Unsure if these ever had prototypes like the heroes.
>>11629350Neat. Looks like you're only missing the Tomb of Doom variant with the gitd skull.
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>>11630119Just a few ghostling concepts left>>11630091Besides one guy that I've found who might have one spare "for the right price" but never elaborated further I've had zero leads on the GID skull. Can't even get a picture of it to come up in google searches. Ill be hunting down MOCs of the main figures in the meantime and trying to find some of the comics. I'd love to find some britbong with the whole set.
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>>11629359The build up is expensive. It only becomes cheap with higher production numbers. Thats why credit cards can use it. One kind of hologram for hundred thousand cards.
>>11630121Funny how they created such detailed figures to turn it into a hologram.
>>11630161I just assumed that these holograms were printed, take a series of images of a 3D model at slightly different angles, load them up and a have a laser expose or engrave them sequentially across the surface. So what every very single hologram is actually exposed slowly with a set up like this from a meter away? Seems insane. Do you turn the laser off and rotate the object bit by bit? I didn't realise how manual and tricky this process is.
>>11630195Printed? I get that it is mostly a model and they shoot a laser at it. Thats why the figure in the hologram is 3D, because the light reflects differently. As far as i understand it, when you partly laser at it and rotate it, you get a 2D flat image. Maybe like the texture for a 3D videogame.
>>11629920Sounds like you've done some research. Don't sweat laser coherency length quite yet. Thats stuff thats helpful but not totally necessary until you get to "pro" level. Starting out with something like this will help you gauge the process. https://www.litiholo.com/hologram-kits.htmlTheres a few techniques you can use but leaning the plate on your object and shining the laser beam through is basically the easiest. The run of the mill diode lasers are all fairly good for this kind of stuff. This company used to sell just the plates and foil for holography but literally just stopped last month. They do have a list of other suppliers that might be helpful. Sucks cause years ago I was pretty close to buying from them and had recently thought about finally getting some of their film.https://www.integraf.com/about/updateLooks like France is the best source now unless you want to make your own. Been way too long since I read up on that process but its not impossible to make your own glass plates. I think film might require equipment beyond DIY means.Lasers are a whole subject unto themselves as you know. Looks like since you're doing small scale (action figure size) stuff you should be able to get away with consumer grade diode lasers. Pulse lasers aren't hard to build, with these you can make dye lasers which were the go-to for decades.
>>11629920Its probably now easier than ever to get decent lasers so you've got that going for ya. Don't skimp on safety gear. Those blue and green laser pointers on fleabay are often WAY more powerful than they claim which sounds great until you accidentally bounce the beam off a shiny right into your eye. Ask me how I know! Luckily I was young enough the "spot" burned into my eye healed (took about a year.)Some guy used some equipment to measure consumer lasers (the cheapo chinese fleabay ones) and found out that the blue and green ones were almost always way more powerful than the label claimed. Reds seem to be more standarized and safe. My guess is China just slams blueray burner grade diodes in these pointers even though they are dangerous for such things.But I do remember seeing stuff like 3 color lasers mixer blocks for fairly cheap a few years ago. Like $200 for a nice setup with a RGB diode and the proper mirrors. That'd let you fuck around with "full color" holograms (warning they're tricky to pull off but that French company has some photos of them) Green is the best hologram color in my opinion. Its just what seems to be the standard color one thinks of when they hear hologram. Luckily green lasers are cheap and they still make plates/film that responds well to green light-fields.And don't forget about scratch-holograms and peppers-ghost, even though I doubt those will work in your case.
>>11630009The other problem is lighting. Holographs need strong single point light sources to look good and while kids do play with shit outside (sun is a great light source) looking at some of the concept art you can see the holograms would often be covered in a way that you wouldn't see them. Holograms are super niche. Super cool but super niche. Its really best suited as an art gallery medium; you go in and view under proper gallery lighting and listen to the holographer nerd give his lecture about the science to a dumbfounded audience. I think the museum of holograms is in NYC and is basically just that.
>>11630161Yes and no. Pro grade stuff is expensive as hell. But to be fair we're at a point in history were holography has never been more accessible and (sort of) affordable (relatively speaking.) If you wanted to open a portrait shop (these were I thing for a hot second in the late 80's) you would need a very large laser system with a very expensive lens setup and very large plates. All pricey stuff. But thats how they made the portrait holograms of people.For little stuff like action figures or maybe like diecast car windows you're in luck. These small sized holograms aren't super pricey. Granted, you need to spend a few hundo to get a supply of plates (usually its like $5 a plate or something but you have to buy $200 bucks or so from the supply houses.) Lasers aren't as pricey as they once were. Getting everything super fucking stable isn't rocket science and adding a remote timer so you can leave the room (so you don't disturb the air) is super easy to do these days with microcontrollers.You could do something like the spirit mirror from Snow White, or I dunno a tesseract from Marvel with demons in it or something, for pretty cheap. Subject matter is tricky. You could make ghost drivers for hot wheels, make the cars look all smashed up and have the holographic victims inside?
>>11629336>>11629315The models they used for the Skull holograms would have been insanely cool figures. It's a terrible waste that halloween/horror toys dont use holograms where they're inherently spooky.
>>11630775I looked at >>11630764 links. It seems really be easier and cheaper these days. But is there anything thinner or lighter? Because it looks like they use glas or thick aka heavier plastic.
>>11631141They used to make a film material and lots of these glass plates are actually a film substrate applied to glass. You'd have to reach out to them and ask. I'm certain someone out there still makes film. Its such a niche industry the US makers stopped last month (might be worth emailing them and pleasing with them for any leftover film stock. They stopped on Oct 6th so you might be able to twist their arm if you're serious.)Film will need to be placed between 2 squeaky clean panes of glass during your exposure, btw.Also don't forget the different configs for the laser. You don't have to split the beam with the DIY kit method (leaning the plate on the item then shining the laser through the front.) >>11630941Keep in mind you need a bright light source to make holograms anything other than dark spots. This is their biggest drawback. They were popular on pogs, sunglasses, wristwatches, etc through the early 90's. The real money in holography came in CD discs after that. forgot the details but the concept behind holograms also works to allow you to out way more data onto a CD/blueray disc. Holograms also have that "ghost" look so they're really suited for horror stuff. Now that action figures are often aimed at adults who place them on a shelf under a spotlight some holographic accessories might make sense. I do sort of what to make a "faces of death" hot wheel collection now (cars with damage and the last face of the deceased drivers behind the wheel.)
>>11631141Heres the best page I can find on making your own "gelatin" for holograms: http://d-i-yscience.blogspot.com/2016/04/holograms-on-wine-glasses-and-glass.htmlHe even does it on a wine glass so you might be able to apply it to other substrates (maybe directly to whatever item you want hologrammed.)He also uses a cheapo laser pointer and not a high-end lab setup and gets decent results. Doesn't look as dangerous as making your own photographer plates (the old poisonous ones) so it might be something to consider if you're serious.
>>11631524It seems Polaroid did alot of holographic paper in the 90s. I just thought film paper or something similar is much better for toy use. Visionaries and Super Naturals clearly used plastic or film not glass plate.
>>11631531When i would do that, how big is the possibility to land on a terror list? Besides i am interrested how it works but making one by myself is very low on my list.
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Thinking of that issue of NatGeo
>>11632066> When i would do that, how big is the possibility to land on a terror list?Basically 0%. He even mentions that in the age of chemical houses restricting sales because of terrorism fears he's listed recipes that use commonly available chemicals. Nothing he's listed is suspicious, unless someone close to you is murdered by some strange poison or something. The real reason most chemical houses don't sell to private individuals is cost. They'd rather work with labs who order $10000 of chemicals in bulk than us nerds ordering $15 dollars worth of stuff. Shipping hazard materials has also gotten pricey over the years.Ultimately nothing about holography will flag you by the FBI, unless you use you aim your laser at planes like an ahole. Even then thats not holography, thats being a jerk. The chemicals might have some danger to them but I don't think you can use them to make bombs or anything. Most of them are common in photography. And think how much fun it'd be to show an FBI agent your homemade holography rig if he did stop by. He'd be relieved you weren't a terrorist AND that some people are still enjoying the productive aspects of science and technology. Send him home with a homemade hologram and you'll be on at the top of their "10 Most Coolest Accidentally Flagged Dudes" list. And while a fun read that Marvel article is decades old. Polaroid doesn't even make film anymore. It mentions how exotic lasers are (we live in an age where they're so common we have to deal with aholes pointing them at planes and blinding the pilots.) And while a pro rig is awesome its not necessary to make simple holograms.That DIY kit with the self-developing plates doesn't even use a fancy shutter. They just lift a piece of paper, which should in theory introduce air movement and vibrations, but it looks like it produces decent quality holograms none-the-less.
>>11632110I really just thought about the chemicals.The Marvel article is really cool. And to my surprise was very detailed how the production works.
It would be cool to make something science like a hologram. But still low on my priority list to motivate me to make some.
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>>11630120>Can't even get a picture of it to come up in google searches.Way, way back on a shelf I just rearranged a few weeks ago. Garbage cellphone camera, sorry.The box it came in is the same as the one from the 'regular' TOD as far as I can tell. All the reliefs are gitd as well on this version.
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>>11632495>>11632494Sell me all your Super Naturals right now, I dare you. So there's no difference with the box at all? I thought it might be a region thing but apparently not. Man thats going to make it even harder. I know some Super Naturals were made in Mexico and some in China. Still hoping this super collector near me will come around to selling me one. Or better yet he'll suddenly lose interest in the series and sell me all his prototypes too.
>>11629350Is hologram still working?
>>11629315You guys have any ghost rare Yugioh cards? They sort of have a hologram effect.
>>11632502Yeah I've opened a few sealed items and bought about 5 of each figure at least over the last few years. Everything is as close to gem mint as possible. All holograms are nice and crisp. I need to figure out some LED lights to display them better
>>11629920>giant mammoth-monster witha giant hologramholy wow this is mindblowingly awesomeI put it next to trash-saurusthanks so much for this thread, anons! I'm saving it.threads like this is exactly why i still visit 4chan and /toy/
>>11632505Glad to hear it, I was expecting zero replies. Coincidently I also collect Toxic Crusaders and a few other lines. Big sucker for chrome, GITD, and Hologram toys.
>>11632521wery cool anon. I love toxic crusaders and the amount of details their toys had.Your display is the BEST one i saw about TC-collection
>>11629920>>11630088I have a mighty need. Kickstarter when?
>>11634459Why?
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>>11636546'coz I want mammothboy and spiderbro.
>>11637099Spiderbro, ok. But that Mammoth looks like ass.
>>11637396Mammothboy looks like someone found his half rotten corpse in the ice and reanimated him into servitude. The concept art looks hilariously weird but I wouldn't say no to a more detailed figure either.
>>11636546>>11636547>>11636550I really really wish holograms would make a comeback.
>>11637422I kinda agree. But even if this is cheaper now, it still is expensive for a toy series. It is much cheaper to just mske stickers or use holographic foil.
>>11637516It would mostly be used for something that is heavily used like those battle beasts element stickers.
>>11637405The concept art looks dumb. The head is way more protruding and looks like his face got chopped if by a guilletine.When you want to use such a long h9logram, make his body more like a h7manoid and give him a backpack for the minifigure!
>>11637516They can use it to make limited-edition cardbacks, file cards, and stuff. Hasbro has already steered in the direction of limited-edition ardback figures with a recent Flint figure with a custom artwork (that's ugly) carback that they only made aorund 84 of.
>>11637531he would have had a face and chest plate like the other figures I assume.
>>11637531>looks like his face got chopped if by a guilletineLike that wouldn't make for a super rad hologram.
>>11638228Yes. Like the original sketch. Thats why the sketch one is weird, the elephant head is too much leaning forward that it looks too short.>>11638264No, it doesnt. It looks more like a satirical thing. Something from a Rick&Morty sketch. Or Simpsons.
>>11637612Sure but i mean holographic foil is always used instead of real holographs.
>>11638446>Something from a Rick&Morty sketch. Or Simpsons.What nonsense. All that you got from a concept sketch?Anyway that's just your opinion, man.
>>11632063I always wondered if those were physical objects they used to make the holograms for the Fatal Attractions covers, and now I know. I need to dig those issues out and reread them.
>>11638734>from a concept sketchYes, because i mean the sketch design choices. How does it look? It looks like it got a Rick&Morty face chop off fatal wound.
>>11638758All holograms use statues. I am shocked how flat they always are.
You guys'argument makes me question why nobody ever used holograms for robot toys. That way the flatness would actually make sense. A robot opens a compartment and you get cool technological details. Or some sort of computer screen. This had to have happened right?
>>11639323Nope. The closest to it is the lenticular chest sticker for the 1986 Cobra BAT.
>>11629350I had the golden knight looking one with the Lion-like breastplate as a kid. Didn't even know there was a whole set of them until recently. I must have gotten him from a clearance isle or something back in the early 90s.
>>11639323>>11639345Thats a really cool idea.
tfw we could have reproductions of S2 right now if these weren't being horded.
>>11629345I still have the original Ghostbusters hologram, but I cut out the front and didn't keep the whole box.
>>11630941I had a bunch of hologram POGs / discs and slammers like that.
Ah. Finally a related thread to post this in. Some years back I was looking up hologram cards and toys on a Japanese site. I found this neat hologram print from a Japanese science expo in '85. I dug the ufo hologram and put it with a buncha space and ufo stuff I have.
