How much of it was her fault?
>>220740264all of it
>>220740264>believed her sister like a dumbass>influence Rob to make a shitty plan to attack casterly rock which required more men which led them to Frey>bitch wanted a new born baby Jon Snow to die of a feverShe gets a pussy pass for pretty much all of it
Like 95% of it. Largely stemming from arresting Tirion for completely nebulous reasons.
she's the easy scapegoat when in reality the story is specifically designed to royally fuck over the starks so it's silly to single just her out when you can do the same with other characters. Why didn't Robb just ally with Stannis and don't let Theon go?, why didn't Arya say the name "Tywin Lannister"?, how could Robert let this powder keg form in the first place etc.
releasing Jaime made no sense whatsoever
>>220740355>completely nebulous reasons.did you watch the show
>>220740355>for completely nebulous reasons.Petyr gaslit her into believing it was Tyrion, how is that nebulous?
>>220740435>Why didn't Robb just ally with Stannis and don't let Theon go?I don't think Stannis would agree unless Robb drops the King of the North title
>>220740480imo there's a chance he'd allow it eventually but yeah probably not, Robb's the type to give up the crown if it meant saving the North though
>>220740435>Why didn't Robb just ally with Stannis and don't let Theon go?Had Robb refused the King in the North title, his bannermen's confidence and enthusiasm would drop. Ned's death was the breaking point for a lot of Norrthern lords who were tired of being lorded over by a foreign king of a foreign people with foreign gods. As for the Theon thing, that was the result of him being too close to him on a personal level and forgetting that Theon was fostered at Winterfell specifically as a hostage, as part of the surrender terms for Balon Greyjoy's first rebellion.
>>220740435>why didn't Arya say the name "Tywin Lannister"?In the books Arya never met Tywin. The one I was surprised she never used one of her three kills on was Joffrey.
>>220740435>how could Robert let this powder keg form in the first place etc.Robert was a shit king. That's one of the points of the story.
reddit show reddit books
>>220740759not directly but she still knew he commanded the army
>>220740714>his bannermen's confidence and enthusiasm would drop.better than being dead
>>220740435>Why didn't Robb just ally with Stannis and don't let Theon go?More like, why didn't Robb just keep his promise to Frey instead of marrying some random he stupidly knocked up?
>>220740960honor and shit, one taste of non northern pussy it's over
>>220740264She doesn't take Tyrion the war never happens.
>>220740960The broken betrothal was just an excuse, Robb had lost Winterfell and the Frey’s wanted to be on the winning side
>>220740335>believed her sister like a dumbassThere's no way she could have possibly known her sister was a complete psychopath actively taking part in a plan to plunge the continent into a war. Catelyn would have to be Cersei-levels of paranoid to even suspect her sister was playing her.
>>220741342Exactly. If there was no wedding, Walder would have made up some bullshit excuse like "oh it's too late in the day to begin crossing your grace, have your army rest and you can start at dawn". Then he'd just jump them in the middle of the night along with the Boltons.
>>220740264About 25% or less. The war would've started one way or another and Robb was heading towards self-destruction by ASOS even without Red Wedding.
>>220740960In the books it was a setup by the Lannisters and the pregnancy might not have even been realOr the girl is still alive and gave birth to his baby and they're being hiddenWith GRRM it's always options like that
>>220741048Varys and Illyrio were playing their own game, Littlefinger was stirring shit up, Tywin was amassing armies, Ned was close to figuring out the twincest and Stannis has discovered it already, the war would've definitely happened.
>>220740264Remember when they teased lady stoneheart then never talked about her again? That was funny.
>>220740335>influence Rob to make a shitty plan to attack casterly rock which required more men which led them to FreyHe came up with it on his own, no? And in the books he planned to go home and fight off Ironborn.
>>220740435>Why didn't Robb just ally with Stannis and don't let Theon go?Or, I don't know, just not fuck a random nurse? But looking at oona chaplin, I understand.
>>220741048The war was always going to happen, the only question is whether or not Starks and the North would've been better off on a different side than the one they ended up on
>>220742026Didn't the Mountain slaughter like quarter of their army a day ride away from them? Bolton recounts northern forces getting stranded on the wrong side of the Ruby Fork, i have no doubts the cunt helped anyone who got away drown.
>>220740264I wish she was a decade younger when they cast her for the show. We might've got some hot MILF sex scenes.
>>220743387>Remember when they teased lady stoneheart then never talked about her again?Yes, exactly like George FF Martin. That's what he did in every book, some fucktarded popcorn reveal at the end of the book, like a fucking Marvel post-credit scene, and then never mentions it again.
>>220743608Yeah, he really is trash. I'm convinced he hasn't finished winds because he hyped up winter coming for so long he doesn't actually know what to do when it arrives. The show completely ignored its existence too. It really makes me wonder what I ever saw in this series.
>>220743718>I'm convinced he hasn't finished winds because he hyped up winter coming for so long he doesn't actually know what to do when it arrivesWe already know that show ending is his canonical book ending, because he never really lashed out against D&D in spite of everythig, while he spits like venomous snake on HotD writers for straying off the books.
>gets his mom killed over brown commoner pussy
>>220740335The only thing she was actually guilty of is releasing Jaime because it was actually a good bargain point. Also, I think the fault of the whole Stark family is to befriend a house that skins people alive as their main schtick. You know, they are probably not very trustworthy guys to begin with.
>>220740960Robb is so fucking retarded. He could have just married that Frey girl and continued fucking that bitch on the side, nobody would even care.
>>220744140probably because he knows when adapting for a tv show there's stuff that's physically impossible because of characters being combined or straight up don't exist but with hotd the changes they made were unnecessary and just retarded decisions by the writers
>>220740264I'd like to think this retarded bitch's corpse was raped by the freys before being dumped into the river. tullys are the worst
>>220743718>I don't even want Winds and Martin is trash!Sure lmao.
>>220740264If she'd fucked Littlefinger instead of that sadist Brandon, Littlefinger probably wouldn't have taken his incel revenge out on the Realm.
>>220740264>Kidnapping Tyrion>Releasing Jaime, a valuable hostage.She made lot of dumb moves.
>>220744294tbf it was high tier brown volantis pussy (in the show at least)
>>220744696He was worried his bastard child would suffer like Jon Snow did, which means it's ultimately Kat's fault
>>220745166>Headcanon
>>220744294>>220745099One of the more bizarre changes the show made. Did they really rewrite the entire character of Jeyne Westerling to be a random woman from Essos just because Charlie Chaplin's granddaughter is Indian?
>>220745166that's part of it but mostly by not marrying her she becomes spoiled goods in the eyes of society and makes it harder to get a good match to continue the line
>>220745026I really don't. He completely soured every ounce of public support he ever had. To go from the cultural juggernaut that game of thrones was to being a wet fart shows just how badly he fucked everything up. There is more than twice the time since he wrote dragons to today than between game of thrones and dragons. He wrote 4 booke in half the time. I really don't care what he does. I'm not reading them anymore. 4 and 5 were already shitty. Why would I keep reading them?
>>220745324>Why would I keep reading them?it's fun, like yeah yeah shitty ending and he's slow and fat we've all heard it a million times but they're still fun to read
>>220745297No, it's because charlie chaplin's granddaughter is fucking hot.
>>220745401The first three were. The cracks were already showing in 4 and 5. I'm not interested in anything else he has to say and you're crazy if you think I would read them. I barely got through 4 and 5 as it was. It was a chore.
If Robb had wanted to take over the seven kingdoms and become king over just seceding from the Seven Kingdoms along with the Riverlands, would the Tyrell's have been willing to join forces with them?
>>220745324>>220745538Sounds like you're in denial.
>>220745324I just want to know what my nigga Jaqen H'ghar is up to and why is he impersonating Pate. The citadel plot is about to go crazy with Euron heading over there. I hope Alleras fucks both Sam and Gilly.
>>220745061>two>lot of dumb moveslol
>>220740264None of it. I accuse Maester Luwin.
>>220740442no, you see she made him PROMISE to give back arya and sansa when he got back to KL. he just needed to convince tywin, geoffrey and cersei to release two valuable hostages because they would be understanding that he promised
>>220744973>tullys are the worstthat's not what ur mom said when i banged her on my yacht, shit was SO cash!
>>220746220She was mad with grief, Bran and Rickon were said to have been killed by Theon and she was desperate to get the girls back.
>>220745658only if it looked like they'd win and Margaery becoming queen would probably be a stipulation
you forever incels blame everything on women. she did nothing wrong. she had no power, men rule the realm and are responsible for their own actionsfind some grass to squat in
>>220746220>he just needed to convinceah yes the Kingslayer, notorious follower of rules
>>220740335>tfw we never got to see her return in the showAt least GRRM will give her character justice...Right?
>>220740335>Watches her son die along with all his allies and gets her throat cut ̶a̶n̶d̶ ̶i̶s̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶n̶ ̶r̶e̶s̶u̶r̶r̶e̶c̶t̶e̶d̶ ̶a̶s̶ ̶a̶ ̶w̶e̶n̶g̶e̶f̶u̶l̶ ̶z̶o̶m̶b̶i̶e̶ ̶t̶h̶a̶t̶ ̶w̶i̶l̶l̶ ̶n̶e̶v̶e̶r̶ ̶f̶i̶n̶d̶ ̶p̶e̶a̶c̶e̶Seems to me like she very much didn't get a pass for any of that. Also lmao, what punishment did you want her to receive for trusting Littlefinger and mistreating Jon?
>>220747056she'll inevitably kill one of her children and that will be her tragic arcthat fat fuck is not going to write it though
>>220740435>in reality the story is specifically designed to royally fuck over the starksEddard is such a dumbass it ends up literally costing him his head.
>>220740714>Norrthern lords who were tired of being lorded over by a foreign king of a foreign people with foreign gods.What real evidence is there for the Iron Throne "lording it over" the North?Seems to me, the Targaryens pretty much ignored the North which is mostly a howling wilderness of nothing and in fact the few instances we get of Northerners interacting with the south, it's them begging for gubment cheese so they don't starve to death.And for the 17 years of King Robert Baratheon's reign, he was BBF with Eddard and continued the long standing policy of ignoring the irrelevant North.The Northmen literally have nothing to bitch about.
>>220747637Because a bunch of shit that happens specifically to fuck him over>So yeah, Robert was just gored to death by a boar and none of his bodyguards noticed that he was increasingly getting drunker and took any steps to remove him from the situation and Cersei's half-assed plan went off without a hitch>You must sacrifice your honor to save your daughter my lord Stark, even though there's no way they would ever harm you, the warden of the North, or her>Oh no, a 13-year old fucktard ordered to publicly execute a former hand and immensely powerful lord in his own right, clearly the queen regent and the rest of the council are completely powerless in this situation even though the Hound would probably defend Stark if he was asked to
>>220741993But don't both Cat and Ned mention how hysterical Lysa is? Obviously they don't know how embroled in all the shit she is, but pretty much everyone knows not to trust her.
>>220740285/thread
>>220740779shit figurehead. Jon ran a good ship, minus the token Greyjoy pissfest. It was near a generation of peace. Renly was about to oust the Lannisters when it all went sideways.
>>220740264She caused the war by making Ned go south and getting him to trust Petyr. The stuff with Jaime was less her fault though, like Rob sucked ass at leading outside of coordinating battles so they were already doomed at that point
>>220740264iirc she survives and has a redemption arc in the books
>>220745297>Did they really rewrite the entire character of Jeyne Westerling to be a random woman from Essos just because Charlie Chaplin's granddaughter is Indian?>>220745506>No, it's because charlie chaplin's granddaughter is fucking hot.No reason Charlie Chaplin's hot granddaughter couldn't have been cast as Jeyne Westerling and that storyline retained, which actually made sense.
>>220744696>Robb is so fucking retarded.It wasn't Robb's fault, he was magicked Sybell Spicer, it's the only way it could have gone down as described.
>>220747986Robb is a teenager and has no POV so we barely know what his mindset is. I always hated that theory because it's fucking stupid.It would be like if the witches from Macbeth magically made him want to commit murder instead of him having actual agency
>>220748088What character has agency in ASOIAF?
>>220746411mournful..
Reddit we win
I'm pretty sure the brilliant decision of executing for treason the most loyal knight of westeros who was also the biggest north boy caused the entire shitstorm.
>>220748247mayhaps the lord brought dark wings (dark words) to ser's nameday telling a tale of dornish red and fat pink masts becoming the world (of the cunt) or mayhaps the ser was as useless as ripples on a breastplate?
>>220745712Me and the majority of his prior fans then.
cant stop winning Reddit!
>>220748186Bloodraven.
>>220748372that's not Darkstar
>>220747762>The Northmen literally have nothing to bitch aboutYeah, except for the whole "brandon getting incinerated" thing. Dumbass.
>>220747986>>220748088Sybell Spicer's love potion just made Robb and Jeyne fall in love, Robb stupidly throwing away his alliance with the Freys to marry her, was an aspect of his honorfag upbringing.A different character would have fallen in love with her just the same, but his subsequent actions would have been different.But as I said, it's the only way it could have happened because there is no way a lord's virgin daughter would be allowed to be alone with Robb, the guy who just captured her family's castle and killed a bunch of their men and Robb's Northmen would have never let Jeyne be alone with their king, all the more so as he was wounded.Robb (and Jeyne) was magicked.
>>220740264Ned Stark going on about duty and honor> Decapitate wife> Send bastard son to the wall> Put Sansa in the dungeons> Strangle Brandon with his own hands> Use Arya for arrow practice> King sends an envoy, cut out his tongue and send him beyond the wall> Build a ten foot wall around Winterfell> Enjoy the rest of his life as a winterchad fucking and killing whoever he wants
>>220748603Once incident over 300 years of the Targs ignoring the North and that was 20 years back and Robert had overthrown the Targs with Eddard's help and both Stannis and Renly were Baratheons also.Some of Robb's bannermen calling for him to become Kings in the Da Norf but all of them unanimously raising him to the point they'd overthrow him if he refused, is nonsense.
>>220741993Well she could have visited once in a while
>>220740884>>220740714It's not just a matter of morale, it was a war for Northern Independence. Giving up title King of the North is actual surrender.
>>220740435Nah its all robbs fault. if he just married the frey girl instead of marrying the first pretty girl he met the starks might've had a chace of winning
>>220747762>What real evidence is there for the Iron Throne "lording it over" the North?lmao1. The Crown Prince apparently kidnapping and killing Lyanna Stark2. Executing Ned's Lord Father and brother for confronting the throne about this in Aerys' reign3. Executing Ned Starkat least
>>220740264>first pov chapter is pov being cummed inside by nedlol
>>220746355which is why we keep dowager widows away from the pows!!!
>>220748732no idea what you're saying desu but there's always going to be a divide when the culture in the north is so different and separated from the rest of the kingdom and yet are still being ruled by people in the south that have maybe stepped foot once or twice in the north, they only bent the knee because of the dragons so when the whole system falls apart it was inevitable for them to fight for independence
>>220748892>tfw Ned's warm seed will never drip from your bussy
>>220744448The Boltons had been reformed for a thousand years though (or as Robb implied in the show, at least a decade or so). It wouldn't be very honorable to mistrust your strongest and most loyal bannermen just because unpleasant rumors about them still persist.
>>220750186it's funny just how relieved Roose is once Ned dies because he knew if he started any shit whatsoever Ned would show up with an army and execute him personally
>>220750088You don't have a 'bussy' it's a hairy smelly asshole Ned would never touch with a ten foot pole even if he was real. You are not cute.
>>220750618
The show died here.
>>220747637The worst part of the show was excluding all of the buildup that showed how Eddard Stark wasn't just a naive idiot and that his character earned a lot of loyalty to House Stark which guaranteed a lot of people rose up for absolutely no reward to protect his children.
>>220751920based
>>220751920
>>220748291pox upon that, nary a thought you'd believe
>>220740435While you can argue that Ned probing Aryn's death would ultimately lead to the same results, none of the bad blood with the Lannisters happens if this dumb cunt doesn't snatch Tyrion. The wicked witch of the North just blindly believed what Baelish told her even though it made no sense at all. >Yes, of course! Why wouldn't this super rich guy give one of the most recognizable and rarest blades to some random jobber to kill my sonDumb cunt
>>220752490>blindly believedshe received a letter from her sister implicating the Lannisters in the death of the Hand and there was already bad blood between the two families because Ned despises both Tywin and Jaime and that's ignoring the events on their way south, you're the dummy anon
>>220752631>Her sisterBitch is batshit crazyThe fact remains if you think about the dagger for more than 2 seconds it doesn't make sense. She wanted it to be true. I get it. I'm a parent. If someone fucked with my kid and some said some midge did it, I'd want to fuck em up to.
>>220752736well if you watched the show you'd know Lysa goin crazy was a newer thing after her husband died. You have a point about the dagger but that's probably the #1 writing error he made during the early books, he basically had to break the 4th wall later and say "I FUCKED UP MAKING IT VALYRIAN STEEL IT WAS 100% JOFFERY THAT SENT THE ASSASIN THOUGH SORRY PLEASE JUST IGNORE IT "
>>220745883>trusting her sister>trusting littlefinger>constantly shitting on jon>allying with the freyslol
>>220753462>trusting her sistercompletely normal>trusting littlefingerhad no reason to doubt him yet>constantly shitting on jontrue, in her defense Ned doesn't tell her the reason why he keeps him around being around her children and having Ned's supposed infidelity rubbed in her face every day>allying with the freysretard or bait, she even warns everyone you shouldn't trust or rely on him
