What are the complaints about this?I am increasingly encountering people say that ROTJ is as bad as the prequels and that the first two movies of the OT are the only good ones. This just sounds like pure revisionism to me.
>>220748062Can you fucks talk about anything besides Star Wars
It's underaged faggots parroting the opinions of older faggots.
GEORGE LUCAS RAPED MY CHILDHOOD
>>220748062That’s just the prequelfags trying to cast shade on the OT.
It drags a little in the middle but all the stuff with Jabba's Palace/barg, Luke, Vader and the Emperor is great and the ewok stuff is overhated Best Space battle in the series too
ewoks
>>220748062It’s a classic
>>220748062The throne room scenes make up for all its flaws
The only misstep is not replacing ewoks with wookies.That would've made it perfect.
everything on Endor gives me an actual headache. it's either just boring or outright annoying. and it's all in service of a stupid twist that the Death Star 2 secretly has a working laser. you could remove all that, and just keep the space battle.Han acts like a whiny little child (which was already my problem with TESB tbqh), it's like they un-resolve the love triangle only to resolve it again...? not to mention, the Leia/sister twist is retarded.production-wise, i don't buy the Ewoks, and whatever rear-screen/bluescreen technology they used for the speeder chase looks absolutely awful. it's like an older movie whenever someone is driving in a car, clearly some elements in front of a separate moving background.
>>220748062The influence of Lucas is showing too much>Somehow, the death star returned>Leia is Luke's sister>Ewoks
>>220748084
>>220748062>movie feels like 2 halves of different movies stitched together (jabbas palace vs. endor) >Boba fett dying to a slapstick 3 stooges gag>Han and Leia have nothing to do for the second half of the movie and just fidget with a door for 40 minutes>the Empire, while mostly incompetent in the previous 2 movies, become incredibly stupid in this one>teddy bears>reusing the deathstar because youre so unoriginal you cant think of anything else
A shame the prequel trilogy didn't pull a Macross 2 and simply ignore this one. Five near-perfect films IMO.
>>220748062>somehow, the death star returned>ewoks instead of wookies>Bobba Fett dying like a bitch
>>220748062>>220748084>>220748134>>220748166The OT had too much plot armour.
>bounty hunter humiliation ritual>Endor>Solo camps at a door for the majority of the film>"sir, a second death star has been spotted"It felt like outside of the climatic moments they ran out of ideas to justify an entire new movie.
>>220748466>>220748479Boba Fett dying is fine. he's the guy who got away in the last one, he puts up a fight, he loses. it's a big action set piece over the top of a giant alien pit, it's not like he just dies to a stray laser blast or something.they could have left him as a cool character with a spectacular death, rather than resurrecting him twice. surely he had a bunch of adventures and bounties before TESB, if they want to write more stories about him.
>>220748406Everything is solved by the forest moon of Endor simply being Kashyyk.The wookies at first are hostile to the good guys (since imperials were trying to eradicate them and only small pockets of them are left), but then change their tune after Han and Chewie get them to join forces with the rebels. Han gets something to do and Chewie is relevant and becomes a hero to the wookies.We'd see them in action and tearing apart the imperials.All the elements of it were perfectly align for it to happen except Lucas opted for teddy bears instead, which makes the entire thing kinda lame compared to the fleet battle and the throne room.
>>220748062It's not as bad as the prequels but it's a far weaker movie than the first two. Largely it spins the wheels for most of the movie.>Half the movie is spent at Jabba's palace and the overly convoluted plan to free Han. Nothing in this sequence is bad, but the only way it progresses the story is Han getting freed. It should have been 15 minutes>Then we establish Leia being Luke's sister, which ends up having no impact except clearing the way for the Han/Leia romance.>Then the Death Star threat is reused because George Lucas is to cheap to build new sets. >Then there's the Ewok village which is alright but it doesn't really move the plot or the characters forward.The final confrontation is legitimately great, but the road to get there is bumpy.
>>220748062>jabba palace was mostly filler with the character going about it in the dumbest way possible>death star two even being a thing>George deciding on Ewoks instead of Wookies which makes the empire look even more incompetent when they get defeated by teddy bears, along with it being clear the decision was made for literal marketable plushie sales>Han and Leia might not being relevant at all for the final half of the movieits certainly the weakest of the original trilogy, but at the same time it also has some of the best moments of the entire trilogy (and franchise in general) so the claim its as bad as the prequels is dishonest
>>220748545its not a big deal but boba fetts death was definitely a big fuck you to fans because there was endless speculation about him in between empire and return. they got tired of it all and gave him that weak ass death to shut people up
>>220748897I thought it was excellent how a chuuni like Fett goes basically a silly death.People only really started to worship him much later when the EU gassed him up as the perfect bounty hunter.He was capable but essentially a mook and got a funny mook's death.
1. Reusing the Death Star, which is the cardinal sin of the movie2. Jabba's Palace has almost nothing to do with the rest of the movie and is also stylistically and tonally very weird coming from the previous movies (plus at a certain point you know Luke is just fucking with him the entire time so it drags on too long)3. Ewoks are lame and the first sign of Lucas's obsession with being kid friendly merchandising opportunities that eventually results in Jar-Jar4. Han was supposed to die to raise the dramatic stakes but didn't and even people who worked on the movie said Lucas pulled back on it out of merchandising/sequel concerns (see above)5. Leia reveal, which helped give the EU one of its biggest problems of everyone being related6. Too many endings, Han/Leia should have disabled the generator more quickly in a more straightforward action set piece and then piloted the Falcon (maybe replace Ackbar with Lando so he still has something to do)Basically everything outside of the throne room (and maybe the speeder bikes and beginning of the space battle) is mediocre to bad
>>220748545>>220748897>>220748973It's worse under yidsney because they made him a sissy who denies having served the Empire whereas in the EU he continued taking contracts for the Imperial Remnant. You can tell when they change characters to appeal to the funko pop fanbase -- they did the same with Thrawn.
>>220748062I always hated how little we got of green saber jedi luke. Feels like he barely matters to the plot
>>220748897i mean it's the last film in the trilogy, could have been the last ever. the guy rode a dinosaur and betrayed the gang in the cartoon, did some bad stuff in the previous film, now he gets his comeuppance in the final film.basically every other secondary antagonist dies. Jabba wasn't really introduced on-screen until this one, imagine if they just left the palace and that was that. guy's been causing Han grief for three films, they just leave him to his own devices.why don't you Boba fanboys complain about Tarkin? guy's a clear villain in the first film, he essentially dies off-screen with a thousand other random mooks. where's his elongated pistol duel with Leia before he falls to his death off a Death Star walkway?
>>220749004i haven't seen the Disney stuff, i assumed he was just a freelancer. the Empire has a whole room full of bounty hunters, is he not just a dude they recruited?that's not say he'd ally himself with or against the Empire, just that they happened to be his clients.>A+++ bounty hunter, would hire again.
>>220748062I agree it's the weakest of the three but it's still a decent movie all and all. There are legit complaints like the first act dragging way too long only for it to not have that much of an impact later, and the supporting cast having basically nothing to do and not developing as characters. The stuff with Vader, Luke and Sheev tho (which in the end is tha main meat of the film) is just fantastic and is more than a satisfying resolution to the trilogy.Also, Ewoks are only hated by edgelords who get angry at the kids film having kid friendly characters.
Endor stuff sucks and the second death star sucks
>>220749144>the supporting cast having basically nothing to do and not developing as characters. maybe this is heresy, but it could have done with a new character. Lando sort of gets upgraded to the main cast for a while, which is nice. but there was no fixed rule it had to be the main three + Chewie + the two droids.fuck it, bring in another female character. i know that would suck now, but Biggs/whoever's gf from the deleted scenes, she had more charisma in one scene than whenever they attempt the same in the newer flicks. re-introduce her as a fledgeling engineer for the Rebellion, who does useful things and has some bants with farmboy Luke, but doesn't outshine anyone.
I wonder how the Endor sequence would be viewed if it were Wookies like originally intended rather than EwoksNot that I really mind the Ewoks myself
>>220748406> whatever rear-screen/bluescreen technology they used for the speeder chase looks absolutely awful. it's like an older movie whenever someone is driving in a car, clearly some elements in front of a separate moving background.I remember being a kid in 1983, and there was a making of special on tv, where they showed thaey hade a guy with a steadicam walking through the forest to film the speeder bike footage, then they just sped it up.At the time I thought it was a cool technique, but yea, now it looks dated, but Im glad Lucas didnt fuck with it in the special editions
>>220749286You're not wrong but I feel it's the wrong path to take.As it stands the downfall of SW (amongst many other reasons) is also due to bloat of characters.Ultimately the OT was Luke's story to save his father and the galaxy. That's the core of it. Sure, add some side characters but key is that they're added for flavor, to make the setting feel "alive" and lived in. A lot of franchises start piling on more "main" characters and then it's a shitshow.Even now the ST era is bloated with quasi-protagonists.Let's just look at the latest example of Mando. It was his show and when it lifted off the show was immediately saddled with a bunch of latch-on "main" characters like Bo Katan. The Ashoka show immediately got saddled with like FIVE extra protagonists from that cartoon. The Boba Fett show (he got reintroduced in Mando) had some asian assassin woman basically do all the heavy lifting for him plus a revolving door of side characters (even Mando) that constantly butt in.The end result is that the singular protagonist vector of story progress gets obfuscated and deprioritized. In the end these shows just juggle these characters and there's no clear dramatic thrust, nothing to really care about. Why care about what is going on with the protagonist when there's like 10 semi-protagonists with plot armor that are going to zip in and save him at any moment. Who gives a fuck.Lucas did quite a lot of things wrong, but he understood that the story has to be focused tightly on a very select few that the audience invests in. RotJ was about concluding their story and making their efforts pay off. Adding more characters in the last minute to partake in that I feel is the wrong move.
>>220748062It's better than the prequels, but>Han and Leia are squandered despite the latter in particular getting hit with what should have been a bombshell >Said bombshell is retarded>Cinematography is kind of lousy >Pacing comes to a crawl with Endor>Opening Tatooine sequence is AOTC-tier nonsense>Obi-Wan and Anakin are handled in lazy waysIt's a fine movie. The set design and puppets are still great. McDiarmid's a good villain. It's very uninspired feeling, though. The whole thing has an air of exhaustion.
>>220748826>clearing the way for the Han/Leia romance.That was already cleared anyway.
>>220749511as other anons said, the interesting part of RotJ is basically everything that follows Luke. one easy solution is to kill off Han (which was planned at some point?) but then maybe there's a character shortage. it still felt like they had to give the characters on Endor something to do.maybe it's a 'damned if you, damned if you don't' situation. but i think they had characters to work with. apparently one of the random Imperial officers came back because a fan wrote to Lucas asking for his return. but the same way Lando showed up in the second film, you could have had a brand new human on the heroes' side.i think Wedge Antilles is the only other human character to appear in all three films? (Vader is more machine than man, u guise.)
Ewooks were silly and dumb.
>>220748269>Best Space battle in the series tooAgreed, which is amazing considering they had 6 movies plus Rogue One and Solo that all used CGI, and even with CGI they could not top the ROTJ fleet battle
>>220749852I think a far easier solution is to give Han and Leia a happy end BUT to also give Han something to do by replacing ewoks with wookies.Suddenly his bond with Chewie pays off because he's a GOOD guy and FRIENDSHIP with a character like Chewie, that most characters perceive as a brute pays off, reconfirming that Han is a good guy.The script can be retooled with minimal changes to allow for this.Wookiees capture the rebel infiltration team and are about to execute them (since they mistook them for imperials or simply don't care since they're pissed off at humans) and then Han and Chewie step in and Chewie vouches for them because of his bond with Han. They trust Chewie, which in turn means they trust Han, which in turn guarantees the mission's success.Han gets to be a hero, Chewie gets to be relevant and so on...These are simple adjustments that affect nothing except the immediate "turn off the shield" part of the movie, but they massively improve Han's relevancy and also Chewie's.And it also reinforces the notion that bonds and friendship and loyalty matter.
>>220748062OP, the problem is that Lucas basically wanted to remake A New Hope and ghost directed it through Richard Marquand.This is why Jabba's palace is like the cantina scene in ANH and we get another Death Star, as originally its destruction was supposed to happen in the third film but Lucas realized that he didn't have a proper climax for ANH and why he repositioned it!My biggest complaint is that he didn't hire Ridley Scott to Directed it after seeing Alien which had the sort of gritty atmosphere SW needed and would have looked incredible!!!FACT!!!
>>220750095Also, here's my opinion of him.....https://web.archive.org/web/20160208161157/http://247365hatemachine.blogspot.ca/2016/01/citizen-lucasfact.html!!!FACT!!!
>>220750095Lucas did try to get David Lynch to direct Return of the Jedi. Here is how that went:https://youtu.be/Va1vfUATx_w?si=mKRIj7pBmldQB3-U
>>220749991not a bad idea, anon.>then Han and Chewie step in and Chewie vouches for them because of his bond with Han.immediately far superior to 'the Ewoks view C-3PO as a god'.
>>220750264>>220749991Not to mention that it's in stark contrast with what Palpatine is preaching in the throne room.
>>220748062It's not as bad as the prequels, though it is the worst of the OT. Revenge of the Sith is the best of the prequels yet Return of the Jedi is still better. I think mainly it just has bad pacing, and some parts just lack the magic of the first two. Obi-Wan just sitting in ghost form on a log chatting to Luke is retarded, and it takes the magic away from force ghosts. Like, they are just guys that can sit there and chat to you? They are barely even dead? It was also lame that they just did Death Star part 2. Seems like nothing compared to the level of rehashing in modern cinema, but it's still lazy. Endor sucks to a large extent, not because of the ewoks but because it's retarded how badly guarded the all-important shield covering the Death Star is. The way the rebels take it over is stupid.But yeah, it's nit picking. It's just not as good as the two movies that preceeded it, but that doesn't make it bad. I kind of think of it like Return of the King. Not as good as Fellowship or Two Towers, which are masterpieces, but still very good and has some of the high points of the trilogy and the ultimate catharsis of the conclusion.
>>220750248Love that story while Paul Verhoeven was initially considered based on his film Soldiers of Orange until Lucas saw his other films like Spetters and was worried that everyone would be fucking each other throughout the entire films duration!!!FACT!!!
>>220748466>>220748479Boba is just a bounty hunter in the OT, not some epic warrior from a legendary race of unkillable space marines. You only hate the way he died because Star Wars media since has made him out to be much more than he was.Jango was cooler anyway.
>>220750321First rule in government spending: why have one when you can have two at twice the price?
>>220750382That's true. You know palpy gave his contractor friends a GOOD payday on those bad boys.
>>220748062so in my opinion just like the prequels it's a good movie. but the ewoks are kind of lame and the whole jabba saving han thing wasn't the strongest side plot. it's definitely the worst of the OT, just like sith is the worst of the PT.
>>220750668>prequels good>sith worst of the PTHow does one even get to this point? I don't like the prequels, but even I know ROTS is the best one. It's the only one I borderline like. What, you like the farting and kid annie from Phantom? You like the utter boring dragging shite from AOTC? ROTS is the only prequel I even rewatch.
>>220750668>prequels goodNever
People always talk up the Luke/Vader/Emperor stuff, but it's all vibes. Storywise it makes no sense.You would think Luke, a Rebel commander, not just going AWOL but giving himself up would potentially be a catastrophic blunder. And for what? A chance to make his dad a good guy? Just to get exlpoded 10 minutes later either way?
>>220750825You think like a woman.
>>220750825i mean what's the worst case scenario? yeah he's a good leader, but they had other leaders. they could have tortured him for info or something, but that's true of any high-ranking Rebel.besides, it's not like he was following orders or they took a vote. it's just something he does, independently.
>>220748062Its a pretty mediocre finale. The best thing about it is the music as usual.First hour of the movie feels like a different movie to the second half. And its just a race to the finish line to tie up all of the loose ends by repeating another Death Star threat but with a budget and admittedly one of the coolest space battles ever produced in cinema.
>>220748062It feels like a rushed ending. I've always thought the original trilogy should've actually been four films. It never sat right with me how much Luke's skills progressed during the off-screen 6 month gap between ESB and RotJ. You'd essentially flesh out the different parts of RotJ into two separate films:Part 3 should've been about rescuing Han and Luke's journey of mastering the force. Focus on the criminal underworld, Jabba, Boba Fett, etc. Introduce Luke's sister (not Leia). Maybe a very brief encounter with Vader to cocktease the next part.Then part 4 should've been about Luke confronting Vader, wookiees instead of ewoks, the rebels assaulting Coruscant or whatever Lucas would've called the capital planet back then, and the defeat of the Emperor.
I Dare You To Explain Luke’s Plan To Rescue Han In ‘Return of the Jedi’
>>220750825>vibes
>>220749066Tarkin went down with the ship. It makes sense his fate is tied to the deathstar
>>220751203When someone is strong in the Force, everything is possible.Reminds that using the Force properly means you're essentially a limited precog and can see future events and avoid undesirable outcomes. Lucas lifted that from Dune books as well. (and also The Foundation books and the Mule etc).The only danger to a jedi comes from another Force user getting involved.At the time Luke was the Force user in the area so all he had to do is let the situation play itself out to his advantage.
>>220751228yeah FWIW i'm actually fine with it. he's not really the fighting type, anyway (maybe he was a soldier in his youth or something).but people are complaining Boba Fett went out by getting swallowed by a huge monster? that death, fighting the main character, on-screen, isn't 'good enough'? lol wut.
>>220748062Ewoks were stupid and the entire Endor sequence was just an excuse to get Harrison Ford back in the movie. Everything else is great kino.
>>220751203Getting caught was apart of his plan.
>>220750825its show Luke actually embracing being a jedi along with fitting with the themes around family and seeing the good in others
Return of the Jedi is funny because it is the peak of the OT trilogy while also being the worse one of the bunch Throne Room vs Ewoks basically
>>220748062>I am increasingly encountering people say that ROTJ is as bad as the prequelsThose are the people you need to avoid
>>220748062It's kind of funny because the 11 year olds who saw Star Wars and loved it were all 17 when ROTJ came out and they grumbled about how the the Ewoks were kiddie shit, while the 11 year olds loved itThen in 1999 all the 25-33 year olds who were 11-17 during the OT didn't like the prequels and all the 11 year olds loved themThen in 2015 Disney tried to make movies to pander to the now 50 year olds who didn't like the prequels and weren't big fans of ROTJ, and shit out the worst trilogy in science fiction
>>220751717i was actually going to make a thread about this:do kids like the sequel trilogy? surely some anons have children? styles change, but i really struggle to imagine children watching the sequels and rushing out to buy Finn toys and...Q-wings, or whatever the fuck. i've heard there are some decent games, but there was a run of AMAZING computer games from Dark Forces and X-Wing right through to Jedi Academy and the original Battlefront.
What happened is that the Gen Xers who saw A New Hope in theaters at age 10 and got their fuckin minds blown turned into ultra cool coffee and cigarettes adults and pissed blood out of their eyes when seeing Ewoks and couldn't handle something innocent and pure and for children, really cramped their style
>>220751219>Random twitter screencap with no source>Not the slightest consideration, even taking some fag on twitter at face value, that maybe importing third worlders en masse who all have 16 kids could be having some impact on the youth's IQ scoresNiggers here now just believe anything shit out in front of them so long as it lets them feel superior.
>>220748062>Jabba stuff>Ewoke stuffI hated that.>Throne room stuff10/10, I kneel George.
>>220751717That's because people pick up on sincerity. Lucas is a goof but sincere.nuWars are not, they are written by a committee and the story is a slog to go through and at no point does anyone even care about what's going on.did anyone sincerely care if the first order fleet caught up with the resistance fleet in TLJ? of course not, it doesn't matter. none of it really mattered because the stakes are zeroin TFA a whole capitol system of the nuRepublic gets nuked and what does it matter? it doesn't.in fact it doesn't even seem to matter if the bad guys win or not, since there's zero stakes to anything. the whole thing is like a larp
>>220752197>none of it really mattered because the stakes are zeroyeah this is the issue with modern films being all quirky and ironic. a lot of people blame Joss Whedon, but in his shows the CHARACTERS were a bit quippy, the threats were still real.even with an actual superweapon, the First Order never once felt like something i should take seriously in this setting. the other films had moments of levity, but it also felt like there was a war going on. in the sequels you can hold a planet-wide party and not even care about whatever 'the First Order' even is.
>>220751801>do kids like the sequel trilogy? surely some anons have children?Kids do not give one fuck about the sequels. Why would they? Unlike the OT and PT, the sequels weren't made for kids. They were aimed at middle-aged people>>220752346I remember Lucas fought with Kasdan during the writing of ROTJ because Kasdan wanted to kill off Luke for more emotional punch, and Lucas was trying to explain that they were making fairy tales
>>220752346That's exactly right.The Empire is immediately presented as a threat in the OT and the officers are stern, Vader is brutal and generally they seem oppressive both in behavior and aesthetics.First Order is immediately presented as a joke as Kylo keeps flailing around like spaz and Hux is a saturday morning cartoon goober. And those are the faces of the First Order. Snoke just sounds stupid and amounted to nothing. And then every other officer they showed off after that also immediately has to start goofing off like it's an SNL skit.Oh yeah and Phasma does fuck all as well.I really can't believe that they sat down and couldn't even conceptualize how to make FO a threat. It's complete dumbassery.
>>220752420Kasdan wanted to kill off Han, not Luke.
>>220752197>>220752346
>>220748529The scenes with Vader, Luke, and the emperor are the best scenes in Star Wars.
>>220752487Right, my bad. But it's amazing to think about how much Kasdan was not getting the basic idea of what they were doing with those moviesFinally he got turned loose to show us all he was the real genius behind Star Wars, and wrote TFA.
>>220749359It would have been way better. George's reason for changing it was also retarded. It's that in the script, they kill the storm troopers with sticks and stones but Chewbacca has a gun. First of all, Chewbacca doesn't have to represent every single Wookiee, and if he did, they could have just changed it so that they have guns.
For me, pros:>Opening.>Space battle.>Fight with Vader.Cons:>Luke/Leia siblings.>Han and Leia given little to do.>Not a lot happens overall.>Death Star, again.In general I think the plot suffers from, things to do. It has an emotional finale (with Luke) but in terms of everything else, fails. I feel like Lucas was checked out.>>220748897>>220748545Boba Fett was originally an Imperial Supercommando, reworked into a bounty hunter, popular even prior to the movie with speculation about him (character appeared at a parade). Originally Lucas was debating doing a sequel trilogy where Luke would find his sister (not Leia) and defeat the Emperor. So they were like, why not leave him alive? Lucas, by multiple accounts, callously said throw him in the pit, get rid of him. Something about Boba Fett was not right for Lucas. Clearly Lucas regretted it because Jango feels to me like pure fan service, especially post TPM reaction.Darth Maul feels to me to be Boba Fett 2.0. >Cool aesthetic man with barely any lines becomes insanely popular.>But he was killed off.>Comes to Clone Wars, he is brought back.>Lucas debates using him for one of his (many) sequel ideas.Clearly I think Lucas regretted it and sort some level of fanservice.
ROTJ is the only one of the OT where the Special Edition actively make it a worse movie, and since the SE is what most people will have seen at this point, it probably gets shit on more than it used to. The Special Edition Jabba's Palace additions are worse than anything in the prequels.
>>220752528This is so stupid. It acts like destroying a planet isn't a huge fucking deal so it has to wipe out an entire solar system at once. It does that with everything in Star Wars. In the original trilogy, whenever the force was used, it was a big deal. When the emperor shot lightning out of his hands, you knew that he had to be extremely powerful. Now the force is treated like this boring status quo thing and it has to be like having it means you're Superman or something stupid.
>>220752663There's money to be made in milking cool characters. That's all there is to it. You're bringing what Lucas "felt" or how emotionally he was invested in it or not. It doesn't matter. Fett and Maul look cool so they will keep appearing so more merch can be sold, in perpetuity.
One thing I've noticed that Disney does that's really stupid is how you can hold people with the force, and it looks fucking ridiculous. In the past, the force let you push and pull things, but Disney does this stupid thing where a character will grab someone with the force and basically hold them up for a few seconds with their legs dangling before pushing them. I don't know why they started doing it, but they apparently thought it was really good, because I feel like it's in ever Disney Star Wars thing I've seen.
I hate how whenever there's a cool villain in Star Wars, they bring them back to life and basically make them a good guy who got led astray. It's like they think that you can only like good characters and if a character is evil he has to be rewritten so that he's not evil. It pisses me off.
>>220752528oh no. not those people, on that planet.tbqh Lucas missed a trick by not calling Naboo Alderaan.
>>220752806They didn't have to make Darth Maul so fucking cringe and talk like an over the top Shakespearian actor or something. They took likely the most badass character in Star Wars and made him lame as fuck.
>>220752806>There's money to be made in milking cool characters.Of course that is a major factor, but when you read stuff about Lucas I do genuinely think there are elements of fan service. People have this idea of Lucas as someone constantly at odds with fans, but I do think he genuinely did care and did sometimes try, despite how he sometimes felt. Both can be true. Lucas does sometimes wear his heart on his sleeve and make his emotions known, just look at his white slavers interview.
>>220751814Gen X is by far the most miserable generation. The least criticized too. They somehow dictates what all other generations see as good and bad. If they like something, everyone has to say it's good. If they dislike something, everyone has to hate it. I don't know why they have that kind of influence. Their taste is dry and joyless.
>>220752841i get the idea that it's more noble to sacrifice yourself and/or stay dead.but yeah this was a franchise that already had a ghost, fine, but death itself stopped mattering for bad guys. even if you hack Darth Icky to pieces, there's a solid chance his Force Spirit will possess one of his 13 pre-grown clone bodies just according to keikaku.i'm not entirely against redemption arcs either, but that should just be Vader's whole thing (and then he dies). the Emperor is the only character who consistently stays evil. and i guess even he betrayed his master, no wonder he was so paranoid about Vader.
>>220752113Jabba's palace is pure, unbridled kino. I have no idea why someone would have a problem with that.
>>220752933they were comfortable so they filled their lives with mindless consumerism and then complained about it.Nirvana and Mall Rats are the most Gen X things ever. >bawww i'm sad about my food options.>wahhhh the stores are closing down.lighten up you materialist fucks, stop taking everything for granted.
>>220752608>they could have just changed it so that they have guns.That would've undone the entire point though. It was supposed to be the Imperial army with laser guns and walking tanks getting defeated by the stone age natives they'd arrogantly overlooked
>>220752962Because they're autistic and need the story to be minmaxed to their specs.
>>220752999Nirvana is one of the worst bands of all time, so it only goes to show how much influence this severely under-criticized generation has. There is absolutely nothing good or cathartic about their music and Kurt Cobain's vocals are one of the most disgusting sounds I've ever heard in this world. Oh, but remember to hate the Grateful Dead and think that Jerry Garcia is a bad musician though, since they started the whole smear campaign against them.
>>220752868I think there's a disconnect about what Lucas thinks Star Wars is and what fans think.To him it's a story that he told and it is rooted in what influences he had in his formative years. But whenever I read anything about his take it is clear he sees it as a project or a story and looks at it purely from a constructivist standpoint. He talks about specific building blocks and how they interact and it's all metered out. He doesn't feel passionate about it like things are decided in some whirlwind of inspiration. It comes off very dispassionate and methodical in the way he talks about it.However the fans have almost a cultish view about such things and take every word and wink and footnote as if it's some sacred scripture that needs tomes of analysis and reference materials.
It starts off really high but after the speeder bike chase it just meanders for like half an hour then gets good again
>>220753122They also seem to hate mystery, which is one of the most important elements of Star Wars. Like, if there's a giant hole, you can't just know that it serves some purpose even if the purpose is unclear. You have to know EXACTLY why that hole is there.
When AI gets good enough I'll replace all the ewoks with wookiees and call it a day.My soul will finally stop dancing.
>>220751203legitimately it all makes sense when you consider that leia trying to free han when she did fucked everything upeveryone was in position before that, lando was a guard, c3p0 was right at his side, rw was accepted in, leia's disguise earned his respect, and while chewbacca was imprisoned, lando being a guard meant that getting him out would be a trivial issue
>>220753189This, but in the scene where they have Leia in that dress, it would be open on the sides and only cover her front and back so that her sides are bare and if there's a gust of wind it would completely expose her. Kind of like her skirt at Jabba's palace but a dress.
>>220748973disagree, i think this is a retroactive reading so people can justify the way he went out in ROTJ. theres this weird pretension that Boba wasn't legitimately fearsome in ESB to warrant being a fan favorite. He's personally addressed by Vader ("No disintegrations"), indicating they had worked together in the past and that he was in some ways too good at his job.Boba is the only bounty hunter who figured out Han's ruse, even thinking one step ahead of the Empire.He talks back to Vader about the carbon freeze option and Vader respects him enough to allow it and say they'll compensate him.Then finally he's sharp enough to notice Luke is tailing him and takes a few shots at him.Like all of this is plenty justification for why fans felt the way they did toward Boba at the time, its some contrarian wave to pretend like he wasn't cool or inviting speculation about the eventual showdown.
>>220753193It's also a part of the hero's journey where the hero slays a monster of some kind in its lair to prove he's the hero. He goes into a dangerous environment and applies all his knowledge to perform a feat of heroism. This is proof that he can finally tackle the final evil enemy.
>>220753227
>>220753122>It comes off very dispassionate and methodical in the way he talks about it.I feel like you're contradicting yourself somewhat. You talk about things being taken as sacred scripture whilst also being somewhat absolutist here. It absolutely depends on the period. Lucas has been disappassionate and methodical as well as passionate and loose too. He has disparaged Star Wars as stories for kids. Whilst also saying things like the Rebels are Vietcong, the Emperor is Richard Nixon, Leia is the main character, talking about ideas, politics and views he clearly views as important. He has felt emotional about it amongst other things. Different interviews at different times about different parts equals an array of displays, in the range of any normal human.>However the fans have almost a cultish view And I think that is stupid because at the end of the day the point I am trying to make is, he is a guy. Yes, some stuff was done for business reasons. Some stuff done for variety of other reasons. I can appreciate his work and vision whilst understanding that people change their mind and say different things at different points in their life. I think Lucas has been emotional about Star Wars as well as dispassionate. His words aren't scripture, his words are simply the natural creative process and how non of it is set in stone. And we can see some things motivated by logic and some by emotion. We can see changes in ideas and retcons along the way too. And people find that interesting simply because it is a massive popular story. The issue for me is always the people building different narratives, either he is an absolute planning genius or he is a lucky retard carried by other people. That shit is pathetic.
>>220748062It blows my mind that there are people who have only seen the version of this where Vader shouts "no." If I had to chose between keeping that and having the sequel trilogy erased, and keeping the sequel trilogy but having that scene restored, I'd choose the later. No movie or show Disney can make would ever be as damaging as that change Lucas made to that film. Ruins the scene and movie. I will never watch the Return of the Jedi ever again unless it's the 2004 version or earlier.And I just know - I just know that that fucker did because Anakin yells "no" twice before helping to kill Mace Windu, which fills me with such anger I can't possibly put it to words.
>>220753247You're not wrong but I remember watching the movies as a kid way back when and I found the scene to be extremely amusing since he's presented as this super cool enemy and then he gets a slapstick death. Indiana Jones also was full of moments like this where some tough guy gets mulched in a "funny" death scene.For instance that bald nazi boxer dude that gets sliced up by a propeller etc..I think people just got somehow really personally invested into Boba so they can't let it go, but I think it's exceptionally amusing he died the way he did even now. (despite coming back from it ofc)
>>220751801I think maybe during the Force Awakens era but only if their parents got swept up in the hype. Otherwise I doubt it
>>220748062Oh boy where do I startToo many muppets for one - we go from mostly humans and a couple aliens here and there to Jim Henson's Space Sesame Street.The main criticisim is everything after Jabba the Hutts palace and the Sarlacc pit is FUCKING BORINGEverything on Endor is a fucking snooze festThe Ewoks are obnoxious ASF, its impossible to hate on Jar Jar Binks and yet give the Ewoks a pass. That Yub Yub shit was as bad as Jedi Rocks.The scene with Darth Vader and Luke in the Imperial base on Endor was the bottom of the pit. Such an awkward badly written scene, that uses the shot reverse shot that would be the bane of the prequels of luke and darth talking about nothing.Speeder bike scene is the nearest anything interesting happening on Endor.The Endor battle is like a fucking joke of watching literal Gummi bears destroy Imperial walkers and soldiers.Emperor scene is the last point of redemption.The greatest flagship star destroy of the Imperial fleet being taken out by a crashing A-wing is just 'chefs kiss' of stupidity that everyone mocks in Disney wars shit. Like they wouldn't have backup bridges or failsafes for this scenario.The goody good ending of Luke saving the galaxy is boring and its terrible writing but George is the prototypical manlet soiboi who needs the good ending to resolve everything because his brain is as deep as a dried up puddle.
>>220753308Yeah like I said, I personally don't think it's that big of a deal. i think its a little funny too, especially with Han going "Boba Fett, WHERE?!" right beforehand. But I also understand why some people felt a little cheated out of something more substantial. I don't really have a problem with how he died other than people trying to question why Boba Fett was popular to begin with
>>220748062All of the original 6 films can be explained by the Ewok line and their prequel equivalents. The thing this doesn't depict, is that people above a certain age when IV and V came out didn't deify them like the kids who watched it born before 73. They knew the whole thing was camp, and enjoyed it and ROTJ for what they were.
>>220748973Yeah, I've never had a problem with it and have always been kind of bemused by the fact that other people do. There's no real reason why he wouldn't die like that. It makes it seem more realistic to have a badass looking character die a stupid, pathetic death. Looking cool doesn't guarantee you an epic death.
>>220753312>Too many muppets for one - we go from mostly humans and a couple aliens here and there to Jim Henson's Space Sesame Street.Sorry they couldn't add CG cartoons for your ADHD having ass.
>>220753292>And I just know - I just know that that fucker did because Anakin yells "no" twice before helping to kill Mace Windu, which fills me with such anger I can't possibly put it to words.I think at that point in every movie someone yells "No" after suffering a terrible loss, but when Vader does it in ROTJ he's finally choosing to do the right thing
>>220753367The ruination of the franchise came when Disney decided to make movies not for the current generation of kids, but people born before the Ewok Line
>>220753367born in 93 and ive always hated the ewoks, even as a kid and hated all the prequel equivalents as well
>>220748062OP, the real truth is and always has been that every OT film is better than every non-OT film. Boomers and Millennial uncs have understood this truth for decades. When younger people try to make rankings, they have a natural instinct to mix things up among the various trilogies and other groupings that they're more familiar with. This is both in an attempt to show that they are informed men of culture, and also to take account of the later trash that they had the misfortune to grow up with, and to which they have attached an unwarranted nostalgia. The difference is that for the original trilogy, the nostalgia is in fact warranted.As a result of this, Jedi being slightly the weakest of the three, that's the one which was selected as the punching bag, which is how you arrive at idiotic judgments that Episode III or Episode I is a better film (they aren't). The ewoks are silly, yes, but the introduction of the Jabba character and his evil den makes a great first act, the whole Battle of Endor is perfectly edited and paced between three fields of conflict, and the best dialogue in the entire franchise is delivered when Palpatine gloats about the trap he has laid.I haven't watched any Star Dreck in years, but the only grouping that I ever bothered to purchase on Blu Ray was the OT, the only set worth owning. True patricians disregard the rest.* It occurs to me that the original film will turn fifty years old next year, and will likely see a limited screening. I could go for that.*the recent side-piece films were okay (Solo, R1) and better than the others, which isn't saying much. I have no interest in seeing Toyoda.
>>220753308>(despite coming back from it ofc)I hate that so much. I thought it was kino as fuck knowing that, while most of the events in Return of the Jedi were happening, Boba Fett was being digested in agony.
>>220753312also I need to add context of comparing this to the previous two films'Star Wars' battle were Rebels in X-wings and Y-wings dying in mass to take out the Death Star using a weakness they found out thanks to stolen plans smuggled in on a droidEmpire Strikes Back we see Rebels getting their shit kicked in and they have to flee their main base of operations and go on the run. You see Rebels in snowspeeders and using infantry and those turret guns to slow down the massive Imperial force of stormtroopers, AT-STs, and AT-ATsand then its Jedi and its suddenly completely turned around and becomesLe Gummi Bear army destroying the Imperials who the previous movies were wrecked the absolute SHIT out of HUMAN MEN far more intelligent and tall than the fucking Gummi bears using literal stone age techIs this fucking Fern Gully? Its so damn laughable how badly written Jedi isI'm amazed it worked for Georgie but that's how braindead the Star Wars audience areprobably helps how many people watched these movies as kids and didn't noticeThe Empire being an absolute titan in the first two movies then gets destroyed by gummi bears and the Rebel Alliance who had been fighting a highly bloody campaign just to EVADE the empireStupidIts stupidIts is literally the proto-Prequel movieStar Wars and Empire worked because George Lucas had somebody tardwrangle him while people who knew what they were doing took his retarded ideas and turned them into something good
>>220753427It makes no sense why he would say no out loud on both a narrative and artistic level. It tells you exactly what's going through his head rather than letting you imagine all the things that he could be thinking while seeing the lightning reflect on his mask while he watches his son get tortured to death. It shrinks it all down. Trust me, I've gone through many stages trying to accept the way that great scene was defaced, and going through mental gymnastics of trying to tell myself that somehow it's kind of good has been one of those stages. It's not. It's just an idiotic decision that destroyed what used to be the greatest, most powerful scene in the saga. Now I can't even watch the movie because it's too painful knowing what's coming.
no matter how many threads you make or how many samefag posts you puke out shitter, you'll never drag the original trilogy down to the level of the prequels or sequels in your attempt to brainwash people into thinking any of them are better than original trilogySuck a dick and eat shit, nigger
>>220753546no one here has said the prequels do anything better though. to me, ROTJ is still miles ahead of them but that doesnt mean it doesnt have its own issues that are worth talking about. in fact a lot of the posts here are implying that a lot of the problems with the prequels can be seen in a lesser form in ROTJ
>>220753501>Its so damn laughable how badly written Jedi isIt also has the best writing in the saga in the midst of all the shit. The thing is, you're not wrong about it having the problems you mentioned, but those problems somehow don't make it a bad movie.
>>220753540>It makes no sense why he would say no out loud on both a narrative and artistic level.I mean it makes sense to me - the man he's a slave to is torturing his son to death in front of him, and he brings up enough strength to say "no" and becomes freeI think in every OT/PT movie someone yells "no!" But Vader in ROTJ is the only time it's not in response to death or loss
>>220753690nah it sucks ass. much better to see the quiet realization even through his mask
>>220753715That is in fact your opinion. I disagree with it, as does the guy who created all of the characters and made all the moviesIt actually does kind of rhyme too. The first time we hear it is Luke yelling "no" after Vader kills Luke's father figure, the last time we hear it is Vader yelling "no" before saving Luke from Vader's father figure
>>220753766>as does the guy who created all of the characters and made all the movieshe didnt agree with it when he made the movie though, so which version of him is correct? do just update your opinions to coincide with his newest take, even when it contradicts the past? how about when he does a double take again and reverts back to his original opinion, do you pretend like you never held the update one?
>>220748084Die toydarian die
>>220753690It's just completely unlike Vader and completely shrinks down the swell of emotions that he would be feeling. It not only ruins the emotion of that scene, it is also uncharacteristic. It's an objectively bad, low-IQ decision that ruined the most intelligent and emotionally heavy scene in the saga. It was an idiotic choice.
>>220753792>so which version of him is correctThe one he made after making the other 3 movies. Unlike Han shooting first, it improves the movie and ties all 6 together. I also like it without Vader vocalizing his internal state, but I think it's a nice touch that every movie has a NO but Vader's is the only one where it's the choice of freedom
>>220753766I'm convinced that you're a subtle troll.
>>220753870>le boomer face>It's just completely unlike VaderIt will forever be strange to me to hear people on the internet who've never written anything deciding they understand a fictional character better than the creator and writer of the fictional character. You're talking about your imagination, right? The guy who created him, created his story and put all the words in his mouth, is always going to be the final word on what's going on with his character> the swell of emotions that he would be feelingI think the swell of emotions culminated in the choice of freedom from his evil master, and freedom is literally being able to say "No."
>>220753875It's not a nice touch. Narratively, it's completely uncharacteristic of Vader and doesn't make since in that he had no reason to react by shouting "no" to something that was already under way. On an artistic level, it shrinks down everything that he was feeling to him murmuring the word "no" and then yelling it. If that's not enough, it sounds horrible. Ultimately, it lowers Vader's intelligence. This is not a matter of opinion. It was an objectively horrible choice. It destroyed the emotional intelligence of the scene. Maybe you're really not smart enough to realize that, but that doesn't make it a matter of opinion, you're just stupid.
>>220753904I am, but not about this. I like both versions of the scene. The one with the "no" is actually better from a philosophy standpoint, as well as a nice way to tie the 6 movies tighter togetherThis might be because one of the clearest and best definitions of freedom is "the ability to say no." If someone tells you to do something and you can say no, you're free. If you can't say no they have power over youLike with Neo, once he becomes The One, the agents try to kill him and he just says "No." Vader goes from "I MUST obey my master" as a slave to "No" as a free Jedi again
>>220750321I thought it was because Luke was stronger in the Force than in Empire
>>220753875>Unlike Han shooting first,oh so you do disagree with him on some aspects, so i guess your previous appeal to his credibility as the creator doesnt really have any leg to stand on.
>>220751203The force grants precognition
>>220748466>>movie feels like 2 halves of different movies stitched together (jabbas palace vs. endor)How so? Just because it's two different set pieces doesn't mean that they feel like two entirely different movies. The Jabba's Hunt sequence is to show how far Luke's come in his Jedi training, and also so that Luke and Leia can save Han -- who they'll need before they can face off against the Empire without any regrets.
>>220754017>it's completely uncharacteristic of VaderYou are once again deciding that your imaginary version of the interior of a fictional character is more valid than the version of the person who invented the character, created his attitudes, strengths, weaknesses, opinions, ideas and attitudes, and created all the actions he did and the words that came out of your mouthDo you know how crazy that sounds?>This is not a matter of opinion. It is literally your opinion, and the dumbest possible opinion one can have, namely "I, a random retard, understand this fictional character better than the author of that character. I can tell because I like the stuff I imagine better than what he wrote."
>>220753935>It will forever be strange to me to hear people on the internet who've never writtenIf writing something on the same level of a certain artist is a prerequisite to criticize their work, then it's also a prerequisite to praise it. By your moronic standards, you can't say if a decision that George Lucas makes is good or bad because you haven't written anything on that scale. You were going to say you can't have an opinion on a movie if you haven't written anything on the same level of that movie, I'd think you were stupid, but saying you can't have negative opinions, only positive opinions is especially stupid. Anyone who uses this argument is either a retard or they're ragebaiting.
>>220754052>oh so you do disagree with him on some aspectsSure, I thought that was a really dumb choice. He says it was always his intention and it didn't come through on the original shoot, but I think Han's arc is better when he starts off as a guy who'll gun down the other guy while he's talking, and ends up risking his life to save the day at the end
>>220754090Yeah you're definitely a troll. Please eat shit and die the most painful death possible, thanks.
>>220754127this retard keeps arguing that george's word is sacrosanct and can't be disputed while he in the very same post will say that he disagrees with george on other things, and never once see the contradiction. and while i was typing this out, he does it again >>220754139
>>220754127>bunch of cope>By your moronic standards, you can't say if a decision that George Lucas makes is good or bad because you haven't written anything on that scaleYou're a genuinely stupid person, but I'll try to dumb it down to kid level for you:You claim you understand the interior of a specific fictional character better than the person who wrote that specific character. This is insane thinking.What you're really trying to say, and failing because you're dumb, is "I like what I imagined about the character better than what the author wrote about the character, so he wrote the character wrong"See how dumb that is?
>>220754153>can't refute>helpless rage>while discussing children's movies from decades agoAnon, you need more going on in your life
>>220754177>You claim you understand the interior of a specific fictional character better than the person who wrote that specific character.You just fucking did that here >>220754127 you room temperature IQ mongoloid. Why can you do that but nobody else can?
>>220754167We're not talking about a religion, you schizo, it's a series of moviesUltimately, the creator actually does get the final say. I didn't like some of the changes he decided to make. I liked others.It's insane to have some absolute nobody on the internet saying his imaginary version of a fictional character is better than what the creator wrote for that character. It's nuts!
>>220754186>No matter how retarded I act, you have to have a detailed conversation with me or I win.I don't have anything else to say to you, I've fully explained why you're wrong and you just keep doubling down on your retardation and making it more apparent that you're ragebaiting, so there is absolutely no reason to engage with you.
>>220754216>I didn't like some of the changes he decided to make.I'm waiting for you to have the epiphany that's been eluding you this entire time. you can do it, I believe
>>220754196>You just fucking did that hereWhat? How?Wait, do you think my imaginary version of Darth Vader and your imaginary version of Darth Vader are fighting?You think you know Darth Vader better than George Lucas. That is insane. Vader is a product of Lucas' imagination, not yours.>>220754226>can't articulate a response because he knows I'm right>s-shut up :((((((
>>220748062>This just sounds like pure revisionism to me.It is. In the '90s, the great debate was whether Empire or Jedi was the better film (the subject even comes up in Clerks).
>>220754253I articulated it several times. What you want is for me to articulate it repeatedly while you continue to double down in your retardation. This conversation has no purpose.
>>220754279>I articulated it several times. >no you see I didn't like it so it's stupid and dumb and wrong and the author is a moron and I should've been in chargeLol.
>>220754259The entire nerd culture hard pivoted into bitching about pretty much anything.Just look at this thread.
>>220754259>the subject even comes up in Clerksin the sequel, the same character has an argument about whether Return of the Jedi or Return of the King is the better film.obviously Return of the Jedi is the worst Star Wars and only the first Lord of the Rings film is good, but RotK is still objectively superior to RotJ.
>>220754292I mean anyone can read what I actually said so I don't know why feel the need to do this.
>>220751203It was to avoid han just being killed. Jabba is flattered and entertained by Luke's efforts, not threatened. If he felt threatened, he'd have just killed han right away and fled. It was a silly drawn out plan cause Luke was confident he'd win.
>>220754335I lost track, you're not the one who thinks he knows a fictional character better than the author of that character, right?
>>220754299Debian > Slackware > Arch Linux.
>you're not the one who thinks he knows a fictional character better than the author of that character, right?>He says it was always his intention and it didn't come through on the original shoot, but I think Han's arc is better when he starts off as a guy who'll gun down the other guy while he's talking,same poster btw
>>220752555I think another part of it was Kasdan didn't think they'd stop making Star Wars movies. He didn't believe Lucas this was the end and if they killed Han it frees them to make sequels without him. Also apparently Lucas, Kasdan and even Marquand even explored find a way to keep Leie away from being a skywalker, but eventually Lucas overruled and decided it was fine and introducing another character so late was cluttered. Which, I think again circles to Kasdan wanting to make a star wars 4 as it were.
>>220754359
>>220754404>me: I didn't like this change the author made to his work but I understand his reasoning>you: I understand the author's fictional character better than that fool, the author
>>220754432holy projection
>>220754348So a writer can make a character do or say absolutely anything and you'll think it's in character because it was the writers choice? At no point you'll say it's a mistake? What if a CGI giraffe shows up and holds up a watch to tell Luke what time it is? That doesn't break the flow at all because George Lucas knows whether or not there would be a CGI giraffe?
>>220754448>So a writer can make a character do or say absolutely anything and you'll think it's in character because it was the writers choice?Yes. The character is a fictional imagining of the writer. It's a little piece of the writer's imagination, that's what a fictional character is. Your imagination of the interior of a fictional character loses to the author's 100% of the time. That's how fiction works.>What if a CGI giraffe shows up and holds up a watch to tell Luke what time it is? That doesn't break the flow at all because George Lucas knows whether or not there would be a CGI?>a bunch of other imaginary bullshitYou seem to really have trouble differentiating reality from your own imagination
>>220754423good. it's called DEBian, not STEVEian.
>>220751203>I Dare You To Explain Luke’s Plan To Rescue Han In ‘Return of the Jedi’Everything about it was convoluted and stupid but I wasn't think that when I was 5 and watching it at the theater!!!FACT!!!
Here’s what I don’t get. Why didn’t George just direct ROTJ himself instead of hiring Marquand? From what I’ve read, it seems that George basically directed it by proxy anyway, and only hired him to do what he wanted.
>>220754415Kasdan really is amazing. Despite a career where basically anything he did that was good was an adaptation of someone else's story into a screenplay, we got 30 years of him claiming he was the real genius behind Star Wars, an especially incredible lack of gratitude for the guy who brought him right to the top of the screenwriting industryAnd then: TFA
>>220754432i honestly think this is possible and i don't even mean some 'death of the author' bullshit.for one thing, Lucas just grew older. in the original cantina scene footage, Han is smooching a random woman. probably a one-night stand or even a prostitute. do you think Lucas would write Han that same way, in the mid 90s?
>>220754533Star Wars is one of the most documented films ever, it's clear he had disagreements with Lucas and Kasdan's ideas were the ones that made it into the film.also, the whole 'auteur theory' thing. i respect Lucas and obviously he created Star Wars, but i'm fine with crediting the director of the second film for that film.
>>220754539>i honestly think this is possible and i don't even mean some 'death of the author' bullshit.It's crazy, though. If we were talking about a biopic of some real person and the screenwriter had them doing shit they'd likely never have done, that's absolutely a valid thing.When you're talking about a 100% made-up, not based on any person living or dead, fictional character in a space wizard movie series, the author is right because the character is a figment of his imagination that he's sharing with usReminds me of how Saavik was supposed to be the traitor in Star Trek VI but Roddenberry kept yelling about how she'd never betray our heroes. He was yelling at the creator and writer of the character lol
>>220754575>Kasdan's ideas were the ones that made it into the film.This is absolutely what Kasdan has been telling everyone for decades, but man that IMDB page. He seems like a genuine genius at adapting other peoples' stories into scripts, but when it's just him applying his brilliant grasp of narrative and story - yikes.
>>220754525George was starting his Empire, building Skywalker Ranch, he had kids, he had a lot of shit going on, and as David Lynch says in >>220750248"Lucas doesnt like directing"
>>220754533Leigh Brackett did a lot of the ground work for ESB and died. So it's insane to take so much credit when it's clearly collaborative.
>>220752197I don't think I would ever use the word "sincere" to describe Lucas.
>>220754665His IMDB page, man. JJ basically pulled him out of unemployment to give him a chance to walk all his Star Wars talk, and he delivered TFA and Solo. Welp
>>220752528>Huh, why does that one shot hold on a random character in center frame as the death beam is approaching?>Turns out that character was a diplomat who had an entire subplot about negotiating peace with the First Order and her death was supposed to give us a personal stake in the destruction of this random system
>>220754638that's probably true, i'm mostly going off the documentaries. Behind the Magic or whatever it was called.he talks about the arguments he had with Lucas and everyone, how he wanted humour but not gags, how he felt the original 'i love you'/'i love you too' romance didn't quite work, etc.at the end of the day, it's his say. most of Hitchcock's best works were adaptations. he rightfully deserves the credit for those films.
>>220753227>and if there's a gust of wind it would completely expose her. And you'll see everythi->>220753267FUCK beat me to it
>>220748062it switches from serious "we're all gonna die if this fails" drama to childish ewoks
>>220748062My ideal ROTJ would have been Directed by Ridley Scott while I'd also change the story a bit.They never established why the second Death Star was being built above Endor? Take a look at picrel and you'll see how tiny it is compared to Endor.Now we know that the Empire established at least one base on the surface, mainly for the shield generator on the ground, but it should have been that an entire city was created specifically to mine resources to manufacture components for the Death Star.Think Los Angeles from Blade Runner, an industrial Hellscape.The shield generator creates a tunnel from the ground that goes up to the Death Star while it also covers the city. The tunnel is used to transport materials and general transportation and the only way to move back and forth between both places which you can see in was already established in picrel .The rebels get to the surface with their objective to disable the shield generator. Problem is they need to find a way to get through the shield.The rebels initially get into conflict with the Ewoks who should be a humanoid tribe of only women, think Rae Dong Chong in Quest For Fire.The Ewoks tried to attack the Empire due to the environmental damage they were causing but as a result all of their men were killed, leaving only women.Because of this, the Ewoks agrees to help Han and Luke, in exchange that they each breed 10000 women to repopulate their tribe.At the end Luke see the ghosts of Obi Wan/Yoda/Annakin watching him, giving thumbs up and nodding in approval as he's getting sucked off by some bush bitch before he strips and joins the ensuing planet wide orgy as Yub Nub plays.... https://youtu.be/BEi9WB18vwE?si=MuO4ux1CiyxHAapXThe end!!!FACT!!!
>>220754848>most of Hitchcock's best works were adaptations. he rightfully deserves the credit for those films.For sure, but he also made great films by himself. Kasdan's original filmography is pretty grimace-inducing>how he felt the original 'i love you'/'i love you too' romance didn't quite workLmao is he trying to take credit for Harrison Ford's ad-lib
>>220754479But if he did add in a CGI giraffe you wouldn't have any problem with it. At least that's what you're saying.
>>220753482>This is both in an attempt to show that they are informed men of culture, and also to take account of the later trash that they had the misfortune to grow up with, and to which they have attached an unwarranted nostalgia.I read a great youtube comment that said>The young were born into a dead culture and they mock you for remembering
>>220754794>>Turns out that character was a diplomat who had an entire subplot about negotiating peace with the First Order and her death was supposed to give us a personal stake in the destruction of this random systemthat makes so much fucking sense goddamn.
Best space battle in all of Star Wars. Even better playing it in Rogue Leader. It's so sick.
>>220754935>Lmao is he trying to take credit for Harrison Ford's ad-libi think he said they sort of worked together, like as the director he said the scripted line didn't sound right, Harrison came up with that, they agreed it worked and fit the character.again, all movies are collaborative and you can argue who gets credit or whether directors get TOO MUCH credit. but ultimately, it was his call. the film is better for his decisions, even when they went against Lucas's.
>>220754943>But if he did add in a CGI giraffe you wouldn't have any problem with it. At least that's what you're saying.No - you really actually have trouble differentiating from your own imagination and real life, huh?We're talking about a fictional character, anon. It was created by the author transcribing his imagination onto pages (and then film). You then watched the film that he made about his imagination.The character is not a real person into whom you have some insight. He's a figment of the author's imagination. When the author has his character do something, and you say "That character would never do that! The author doesn't understand his character at all!" You are saying something insane.Like I told the other anon, it's one thing if it's a biopic about a real person and the writer has that person doing something they likely wouldn't. When it's a completely made up figment of the author's imagination, they are right and you are wrong. What you mean is "I don't like what he did"
>>220755010>the film is better for his decisions, even when they went against Lucas's.That's not a decision he made though. That was the actor and director and Lucas agreeing the actor's improv was better than what was on the page (written by Kasdan)Him saying after the fact "I thought it was clunky too (as I wrote it) so basically what Ford improvised was really my idea" is accidentally really illustrative of the man, and why nobody had paid him to write anything for more than 10 years when JJ called him up
>>220754643I wish that the emperors throne room looked biomechanical, like something designed by H.R. Giger, that the further you go in the more weirder the surroundings start to look with the throne room representing the evil corruption just under the surface of the Empire!!!FACT!!!
>>220750248I still don't really understand why he didn't want to direct it.
>>220754766Solo was fine, but unneeded. 7 was just ANH. Dreamcatcher is also one of the worst movies IVe ever seen lol
>>220748269The objectively correct take.
>>220755021So you think it's impossible for a writer to make a character of theirs act out of character then? There's absolutely nothing a writer could make a character do that you would take issue with? It just seems like you have trouble identifying the personality of a character. The kind of points you make make it sound like you're just not able to process films very well and can't tell the difference between good and bad writing.
>>220755096>Solo was fine, but unneeded. 7 was just ANH.Also pretty funny that he was finally given the chance to show the whole world that everything good about ESB and ROTJ was his idea, and then he delivered 1) a beat-for-beat remake of Lucas' first SW script, and then 2) "ok, but why was this made">Dreamcatcher is also one of the worst movies IVe ever seen lolHe directed that one too, I think. Nowhere to hide lol
>>220754933I don't get why that third picture is there.
>>220755262It's also crazy that he thought that audiences were dying to know why the Millennium Falcon is called "she" because he himself was perplexed as to why the Millennium Falcon is called she so he wrote this insane explanation that the Millennium Falcon had the soul of a woman trapped in it all because he lived his life somehow not knowing that ships have always traditionally been referred to as she.
>>220755295>I don't get why that third picture is there.That's how I would want the Ewoks to look!!!FACT!!!
>>220755236>"So" followed by a bunch more hallucinations and things nobody ever saidI'll try to really dumb it down, like the way I'd talk with a moderately bright 8 year old100% of everything about Darth Vader's character was made up by George Lucas and 0% of it by you. Darth Vader in those movies is George Lucas' imagination brought to lifeYou can like or dislike the things Lucas imagines for his imaginary character to do and say, but you do not have more insight into Lucas' imagination than Lucas does. That's crazy.Basing your decision that you have more insight into Lucas' imagination than Lucas does based on a single word of dialogue he had his imaginary character say is really really crazy.
>>220755116Nothing saying the Ewoks are overhated is an objective correct takeThey aren't hated even close to what they deserve
>>220754866I don't get it.
Fuck this thread someone said solo wasnt needed, it's one of the most needed movies of the franchise a han solo origin story too bad the miscast the main character, you know what wasn't needed the last jedi or any of the sequels
>>220755360>he himself was perplexed as to why the Millennium Falcon is called she so he wrote this insane explanation that the Millennium Falcon had the soul of a woman trapped in it all because he lived his life somehow not knowing that ships have always traditionally been referred to as she.I think at this point we need to add to the list of crimes in The People v George Lucas: "Giving Lawrence Kasdan a Hollywood career"Also, his >rebellious Robot Lib robot demands freedom as a sentient being>ends up as a silenced disembodied slave consciousness trapped forever in a rusty old freighter>he wrote this after writing a script where the same freighter got abandoned for decades on a junkyard planetWhat the fuck did he mean by this
>>220755375But if he acts one way and then acts a way that contradicts his behavior then he's acting out of character. Shouting no at the top of his lungs just isn't how he acts. I really think the problem is that you're tone deaf. That explains both why you don't think a writer can possible butcher one of their own characters and why you think that Vader saying no was a good addition. The original scene just worked on an emotional level that you don't have the capacity to experience. In short, you're stupid.
>>220755375That's wrong.If you create a character that is in a work that is considered to be finished. Like a movie, a book, a game. That character is now independent of what the author "intended" or "felt" or "thought" outside of the work itself.You're of the persuasion that hunting down "clues" about what the author REALLY meant from some doodles, napkins and half-remembered interviews is as valid as what is being depicted in the work itself.Oh he said so in so in some interview while shooting the shit so that means the character is now gay or whatever, cool.I'd just stick by what is depicted in the work itself.
>>220748514…got one with a Ewok vulva and clitoris?
>>220755478>Shouting no at the top of his lungs just isn't how he acts.It is, because he does it. He does a lot of shouting in the movies. He even shouts "No" as like one of the first things he says as Darth Vader. >That explains both why you don't think a writer can possible butcher one of their own characters see>>220755375>Basing your decision that you have more insight into Lucas' imagination than Lucas does based on a single word of dialogue he had his imaginary character say is really really crazy.You need to learn that "I didn't like that" isn't the same as "objectively bad"And maybe take some NAC for your autism, because you think one word of dialogue is the creator of a fictional character butchering them
>>220755516>If you create a character that is in a work that is considered to be finished. Like a movie, a book, a game. That character is now independent of what the author "intended" or "felt" or "thought" outside of the work itself.This isn't even death of the author, it's just retarded lolThe character is a figment of the author's imagination. If he wants to write further imaginary things for the imaginary character to do, that's his right. If he wants to construct a latter-day elaborate backstory for his imaginary character, say over 3 films, he can do that too. He can even tweak his earlier work and release new editions of it that add or remove scenes or dialogue to better fit his imagination. About his imaginary character, he is 100% right because it's his imagination.>You're of the persuasion that hunting down "clues" about what the author REALLY meant from some doodles, napkins and half-remembered interviews is as valid as what is being depicted in the work itself.No, you're the one who's arguing against the work itself. You can tell because you can go purchase the work right now through a number of media, or stream it on its home streaming service, and what you see will apparently make you angry.
>>220755360I think it was more he wanted to answer the ships computer in ESB being rude to C3P0. I didn't mind solo, it just was not a movie I wanted at all. I didn't need lines from ESB expanded. Lando and Han in ESB are perfect, more is not better.
Remember when Han Solo randomly showed up in a book about zombies on a Star Destroyer?
>>220755602>the character is a figment of the author's imagination.Yeah but we're not talking about something existing INSIDE the author's imagination. We're talking about what is depicted in the WORK. You seem to not be capable of distinguishing the two.
>>220755546>It is, because he does it.So then there's no point in giving a character a distinct personality because absolutely anything they do will be in character. Again, the problem is you're tonally inept, so you're not able to process things like a characters personality and what they would and wouldn't do. That's why you think it's impossible for a fictional character to act out of character. Also, I only said that having Vader yell "no" in Return of the Jedi was one out of several problems with that inclusion, but the others, like how it shrinks down everything that could have been going through his head or why it was actually stupid of him to say that out loud rather than taking the Emperor by surprise are also too much for your simple mind.>He even shouts "No" as like one of the first things he says as Darth Vader.That's right, George made a good film worse so that it would blend better with a worse film.
>>220755739>We're talking about what is depicted in the WORK.You can go stream the work right now. Do you think Lucas is the first guy ever to revise his work? Tolkien rewrote a huge chunk of The Hobbit in 1951. Mary Shelley rewrote Frankenstein 13 years after it was initially published. Stephen King rewrote The Gunslinger and The Stand, The Stand's second edition is 400 pages longer. Want to compare the 1982, 1992 and 2007 cuts of Blade Runner? Spielberg added entire new scenes to ET for the 20th anniversary edition as well as VFX changes and the hilarious walkie talkie thing.Were they all wrong to do this?>>220755745>So then there's no point in giving a character a distinct personality because absolutely anything they do will be in character.Again, and I'm really worrying about you here, you're confusing "your imagination of Vader's personality" with "Vader's personality." And what you're trying to say is "I didn't like these changes" which is fine. "This guy created this iconic character which is one of the greatest movie villains of all time but then he made him say 'no' in a scene which means he doesn't understand his own creation like I, someone who watched his movies" is crazy stuff AnonYou need to stop confusing "your opinion" with "objective reality" - it has doubtless socially crippled you many times before
Back in the 90s pretty much everybody I knew treated RotJ as being the lesser star wars filmIt wasn't bad persay but it was seen as a major letdown for being the end of the trilogy. I think because the prequels came along and all hatred got centered on them it sort of 'cleaned' Return of the Jedi's image a bitJabba's palace was fine it was usually the Endor stuff and the Ewoks that got ripped on constantly.
>>220755084Who? Lynch or Lucas? David Lynch didn't want to direct it because he wouldn't have any actual creative input on the film, George had already done everything and figured everything out in the pre-production process, he would've been hired to just come in every day and shoot what George dictated to him in the shooting schedule, script notes and storyboards.
>>220755425It kind of pains me that George always planned to do a Han "origin" movie where Han first met Chewie and Lando and got the Falcon, but never made it. All of that stuff was off-limits to EU creators because George wanted to eventually do something with it in the movies.
>>220748062ANH = extremely fresh/exciting, ESB = known for a time as the peak, ROTJ = whatever. It drags in places but people loved their fill.
>>220755910I never really liked ESB that much apart from the Vader scenes.The Hoth stuff drags on for way too long for what it is.Hand and Leia then spend the middle part of the movie inside a space slug.Luke goes to Dagobah to train with a stock sensei character.And then the cloud city is essentially just one set piece.So there's basically four situations in the whole movie : Hoth, space slug, Dagobah and Cloud City. And out of those four only Cloud City is somewhat interesting. It's like a filler part of a season watching that and like I said the only good parts are when Vader is in the shot.
>>220748062I like everything except any scene containing an Ewok. They are seriously garbage.
>>220755084If you mean Lucas, he was a new father with a collapsing marriage and was running Lucasfilm-ILM-Skywalker Sound
Out of all the movies I rewatch ANH the most. It's great from start to finish and tells a self-enclosed story. Other SW movies have great bits but also a lot of annoying padding and hijinks.
>>220748062>What are the complaints about this?The ewoks.The fucking ewoks.
>>220755084He likely perceived SW as a space opera serial since he based it on that material. Maybe he wanted each movie to be directed by a different person so it mimics the serial format more.
>>220751144This.
>>220751144The part three you outlined is basically Shadows of the Empire
>>220748062Still, easily, the 3rd best Star Wars movie behind the first two. Return of the Jedi is a classic and people who cry about Ewoks are lame asses.
>>220753482Episode III is light years ahead of ROTJ. All of the prequels are desu but with ROTS it's not even close.
>>220748062>ewoks are stupid sillythey also added a NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO to lord vader when he picks up palpatine
>>220748406>it's like an older movie whenever someone is driving in a car,M8, in the first star wars movie 6 years before this one their speeders had wheels and they used vasaline on the lens to blur it so it looked like a force field. these are old movies
>>220748062It's the ewoks. It has always been the ewoks. In my opinion, which I have held since I've seen the original trilogy over 30 years ago for the first time is, that Return of the Jedi is cool scenes mixed with ewoks.
>>220748466Boba probably should've just escaped Jabba's palace to be the rebel menace on Endor. At least then there'd be a target for all the wacky ewok hijinx besides the generic literal whos and Han would have something to do
>>220756566>Episode III is light years ahead of ROTJ.(RICH EVANS LAUGHING AT 7 MILLION DECIBELS)
>>220756739You're right, I think Boba should've also showed up in the throne room and then there's a three-way duel between Vader, Luke and Boba. Then Boba kills Vader and Luke and fights the Emperor. Then Boba wins. Then he sits on the throne and says "I'm the Emperor now".
>>220748062too many ewoks. If you replace ewoks with more rebel commandos just fighting stormtroopers in the jungle it gains an entire point(8 ->9/10)
>>220748084The creation of the eternal manchild is the crime for which Lucas will burn in the stankiest pits of hell.
>>220748084sorry zoomie, your gen hasn't made anything worth talking about.
>>220756797Oh is this one of those threads where some mentally ill cocksucker harasses anyone who tries to post in it? My b
>>220756790>still appealing to RLM in current year It's just embarrassing at this point.
>>220757029>from Kasdan to RLM to Kennedy, all of Lucas' enemies got exactly what they wanted and were destroyed by itActual, literal poetry
>>220748479>somehowAre you honestly implying that people can't just go "let's build another big thing"?
>>220757429I mean an attack on Coruscant would be better.
>>220748062>Revenge of the Sith > Empire Strikes Back > Return of the Jedi > A New Hope > Rogue One > Phantom Menace > Attack of the Clones > The Force Awakens > Solo > Last Jedi > Rise of Skywalker
>>220748062most haters direct everything against the existence of the Ewoks. No one says anything against Jabba's palace, Yoda's death, Luke's fight against Vader, or the spaceship battle around the Death Star.
>>220748062It is just retards parroting Red Letter Media because they have no free will and can’t picture an apple in their head.
>>220759008>No one says anything against Jabba's palace, Yoda's deathi do. jabba's palace and in particular the sarlacc pit sequence make no sense, are horribly edited and have nothing to do with the rest of the film. the abrupt visit to dagobah robs the place of the mystery it held in the previous movie ("and now we're at yoda's house!" like it's a sitcom) and what actually happens there effectively retcons the ending of the last movie with the "from a certain point of view" cop out and takes a shit on the whole trilogy with the "leia is my sister" reveal. these things are way worse than ewoks, which i don't really mind.all of this really stems from the ot, unlike the prequels, not actually being a trilogy but >a standalone movie>a movie trying to retcon the standalone movie into just one chapter of a huge saga>a movie trying to retcon the huge saga into being just a trilogy because it turns out they don't actually feel like making more
>>220748062Empire and Revenge are the best.
>>220748478Yub Yub! NoooOoooOoo!!!
>>220752528>now playing: darude sandstorm
>>220748062Endor sucks and the exposition scene with Alec Guinness filmed by himself in London is completely embarrassing. The front camera parts of the speeder bike chase look terrible. Most of the middle of the movie is indeed prequel bad.People that shit on Jabbas palace or the throne room are being hipsters though
>>220759008Ewoks get scapegoated for all han and leia stuff and everything on endor being terrible
>>220752731100% its all so retarded.Fuck the sequels.I want to know what happened to the trillions of battle droids that were surely still around. It would have been so cool if after the fall of the Empire, the entire galaxy erupts into civil war. Everyone starts vying for power. You have all the corporations teaming up again, imperial remnant trying to stick together and reform the empire, the nu-republic trying to assert dominance, freaky shit like the first order (hard core cultists) carving out territory.They could have done so much stuff, had a million doffrent movies focused on a million diffrent wars and aspects of an empire free galaxy.Instead we got Mary Sue Ray.I hope Disney goes bankrupt.
>>220756830>Zoomers have moved on from the stuff they grew up with to other things but you can't.That's really sad, you're older. If SW was a movie made in zoomer time it likely get some memes and then they move on like Shrek or Tobey's Spider-Man.
In terms of fun6>4>5In terms of being good4=5>6
>>220748207fpbp/thread
>Jabba's Palace filler>Somehow, the Death Star returned...>Luke's largely unexplained power scaling>Luke inexplicably abandoning his friends and the rebellion>Vader's overall characterization and nonsensical redemptionThose are my major issues with it. I would argue the final act of ESB carries some blame for setting things up poorly, in my opinion, but ultimately Jedi did enough on its own to bury itself."Star Wars" is really the only movie worth watching. Shame Hoth is trapped in Empire, it's such an amazing sequence.
>>220748062TESB is actually shit lil zoomer not that you would know
Han Solo lost his aura in this film. He just bumbles around and doesn't really do anything that nobody else couldn't have done. Ford looked out of his skull and quite rightly wanted the character killed off.
>>220748062>cut most of the ewok stuff>add scene of leia being stripped and put in the bikinifixed you're movie.
>>220748062While it's undeniably weaker than the first two films, people acting like it's a garbage movie are psuedo-intellectual retards. They're the same people who pretend they like Temple of Doom the best out of the Indiana Jones movies. They HATE Ghostbusters 2 and Back to the Future 2. They think that by being contrarians, that's a replacement for a personality. RotJ is fine, and certainly better than any Star Wars movie released since then.
>>220761093tbf, Temple of Doom is the only good Indy movie.
It's even worse than I remembered.
>>220761093>if you don't like what i like then you're just pretendingcontrarianism isn't real anon
>>220748406>everything on Endor gives me an actual headache.1983 is the one the make Leia an enslaved princess. I wish they had done this on a non-desert world as the desert people have the worse lingerie for their slave girls Endor is just deactivating the shield generator for the epic space battle going on. Think if it was all focused on EndorThe desert scenes aren't just a side scene to a space battle but the desert is the whole settingWith me, Endor is nice because I love trees & forests .I dislike all the desert (only 1980 does not have desert, instead 1980 has the snow world of Hoth, the swamp world Luke trains with Yoga, and Cloud City on a gas planet)
>>220748567You're absolutely correct but you're forgetting about the millions of dollars of Ewok merch. Wookies just weren't going to sell like that.
They spend the first 30 minutes of the movie on saving Han from Jabba, and then all he does is stand around in front of a bunker's door.
>>220748466>>Boba fett dying to a slapstick 3 stooges gagNo, that's not slapstick or 3 stooges. You should go watch 3 stooges so you know what that is. Fett's death is something you see in a lot of flicks. It is disappointing in hindsight now that Fett has been developed into a titular character but back then he was just some who? side character with a typical who? side character death
>>220748062Just some bizarre nonsense from people desperate for attention, like (you)
>>220748466>>220748826>>220748851These are some low IQ takesWith Star Wars, it was the 1977 movie that was great. Just like the Matrix was great then had two meh sequels, same with Star wars1980Hoth ice planetYoda's Swamp planetCloud CitySome space adventures mixed in1983TatooineYoda's Swamp planetthe Rebel Alliance plans their attackThe attack on the new Death Star and it's forcefield generator on Endor Complaining about not enough settings in 1983 without realizing it was the same in 1980 is a brainlet take1980 and 1983 were basically one movie with an intermission the middle Same with Matrix 2 and 3
>>220761093People hate Back to the Future 2??
>>220762152Yeah but the Star Wars basically set the standard for sequels by being mostly competent. The Matrix sequels suck so badly it's better to pretend they never happened.
>>220755084It is funny that Lynch turned down Return of the Jedi, but then directed Dune.
>>220762887It's the exact opposite though. Lucas was just winging it, making shit up, he made one good sequel then an abysmal one, then absolute shit ever since. They're only liked because they're for kids who don't care about the quality. The Matrix Sequels on the other hand were thoroughly planned out, intricately connected, interwoven with different media like games, comics, and anthology videos. It's understandable if you don't get it. They're so good they heavily filter low iq npcs such as yourself.
>>220748062ROTJ is literally bad though. Everything on Endor was shit. The only good parts were the luke ones.
>>220752608George is a dipshit moron.
Yub nub
Leia is my sister is way worse than the teddy muppets
>>220748897LYING.fandom culture didn't exist in 1982, so you are lying.
>>220761972>Chewbacca shouts at Han>(while still blind)"Boba Fett?! Where???">spins around look and accidentally stab his jetpack with a spear>Boba fett flies face first into Jabba's barge while wilhelm screaming>ragdolls into sarlaac pit It was a cheap slapstick gag to get rid of a major villain. Even back then before Boba was really a fleshed out character people liked him and thought he was gonna be a bigger character/threat.
Why are jawas loved but ewoks aren't? Both are crazy lil fellas.
>>220754082They have 2 entirely seperate story arcs and conflicts. The first 50 mins of Jedi acts as an Epilogue to Empire. Then EVERYTHING is resolved from Empire. And we need a NEW conflict 50 mins into the movie to start the conflict od Jedi... (many Bothan spies died to bring us this new danger)
>>220763821for starters their role
>>220763821jawas are shady goblins that sell the droids, ewoks save the day in the big battle with looney tunes traps
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2zghC6UgcV4
I hope the day comes when plebs realize empire strikes back aint shit and only the original movie is worth the reverence
>>220763815Dont forget the sarlac burps after eating him. His entire death was something you'd see in a star wars spoof like robot chicken
>>220748342The original plan was to go to Kashyyk, until Lucas figured he could sell more toys with a bunch of teddy bears.
Ewoks are no different than yoda. Just as Luke underestimated a weird little guy, these weird little guys are going to stand up to the empire.Empire was always incompetent Boba Fett is a literal background character that didn't do anything but have cool armor on It's rotj > original> empire strikes backCope
>>220753247In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king. He's surrounded by incompetence. That's like pitting me up against an 8yr old in a game of one on one. I'll win 8 out of 10 everytime..
It is strange that despite ewoks literally liberating the galaxy, the are never seen or heard from again You would think someone in the sequel would like bring them up once.
>>220764528are ewoks even considered intelligent in star wars canon? do they have star ships? can they actually do space travel or are they just tree dwelling midget wookies?
>>220763815>major villainLmaoJust because nu-wars needs every single side and background character to be a star and prop up their shitty content doesnt mean thats what the character is
>>220763815>It was a cheap slapstick gagGood thing Star Wars returned to its campy roots instead of the edgeslop that was Empire.
>>220764570>tracked Han and Leia to cloud city and gave the info to the empire>one of the only characters to stand up to vader and not get force choked>successfully captured Han and sold him to JabbaHe objectively played a larger role in the OT than Sidious
>>220748062>What are the complaints about this?>I am increasingly encountering people say that ROTJ is as bad as the prequels and that the first two movies of the OT are the only good ones. This just sounds like pure revisionism to meIts on par with A New Hope for me. The only thing I don't like are the childish moments the Ewoks do (the jump when R2D2 zaps them, and the Ewok that hits itself with its slingshot).
>>220748342>The only misstep is not replacing ewoks with wookies.>That would've made it perfect.No. It wouldn't make sense for a top secret build of the Death Star over a planet with a race that is not only intelligent, but is active in galactic trade and governing policy.
Star wars are 80s action films with one liners and goofy characters I am sorry you thought it was more and still in your feels about it 40 years later
>>220748466>Boba fett dying to a slapstick 3 stooges gagShit happens. Haven't you seen those Chinese construction videos posted here. Stupidity gets people killed all the time.
>>220751203>I Dare You To Explain Luke’s Plan To Rescue Han In ‘Return of the Jedi’There were multiple plans to increase a higher chance of success.
It was kino and the best of the OT. End of story.
>>220752528>WebmThis is like some Dragon Ball Z shit.
>>220748062>What are the complaints about this?None, at least from me. Return Of The Jedi is my favourite Star Wars film, always and forevermore. My next favourite Star Wars film is The Phantom Menace, which echoes Return Of The Jedi in its own kino way.
>>220748062Biggest “issue” is that the entire Tatooine sequence is unrelated to the rest of the plot and only exists to fix the status quo left at the end of Empire. It’s still a great sequence and is one of the better parts of the movie since we get to see the heroes kick ass after losing hard at the end of the last one.
>>220763821>Why are jawas loved but ewoks aren't?"WOO-TEENIE!"
>>220748062Empire is bad compared to that
>>220749901there's nobody in the cockpit of the Falcon there
as far as im concerned empire strikes back and return of the jedi are both NOT CANON
How did George blunder the prequels as hard as he did, it's almost amazing how bad they are.Shit on rotj all you want but fuck brother compared to episode 1 and especially 2. It's a masterpiece
>>220766249>How did George blunder the prequels as hard as he did, it's almost amazing how bad they are.They're good stories, bad execution in directing. George didn't want to direct in the first place, but all the directors he asked turned it down because they could sense it was going to be explosive for them if they did.
>>220748062I loved it as a kid. No complaints here.
>>220766474It has a few cool ideas but in what world did he think a ugly Jamaican cartoon man screaming about poop intercut with really boring trade agreement talk was a good followup for his 80s action samurai triolgy Genuinely it's fucking baffling, I least get the idea behind the ewoksThey sell toys and it's a retread of yoda not being what he seemed like but wtf
>>220766544>It has a few cool ideas but in what world did he think a ugly Jamaican cartoon man screaming about poop intercut with really boring trade agreement talk was a good followup for his 80s action samurai triolgyStar Wars merchandise makes a fuck ton of money. Money that Lucas has sole rights over. Jar Jar was about selling merchandise.
