It's treated as one of those 'love it or hate it' movies, almost by design in Rian Johnson's marketing, but the truth is it's in the middle. Good elements and bad elements, neither the masterpiece nor the series-destroying turd both camps would have you believe. It's just kind of a nothing movie. Then TROS finished it off.
>>220926292So it's of the same quality as the prequels? I already knew this.
>>220926292Also, while I can see the point people make about Luke's portrayal, to expect him not to change at all in 30 years after seeing his entire academy slaughtered is a bit daft. People grow and go through shit and it's how they respond to these situations that reveals their character. Johnson opted to do something slightly interesting with the shitty hand Abrams dealt him of 'Luke stuck on an island as a hermit.' When Luke says "what, you want me to take my laser sword and face down the entire First Order" that is literally shining a light directly in the face of fans that were calling for the Jedi to be war-torn badasses again, which was not at all the point of their religion. So then of course Disney capitulated and gave Luke a Vader hallway scene in the Mandalorian. Destructive power is a Sith thing, we have seen this throughout the franchise.Also, he HAD to die, or he would have overshadowed the new characters going forward. I don't see how people can't understand the entire purpose of the sequel trilogy is less to be a direct followup to the originals and more to be a soft SW reboot that passes the torch to a new load of characters. Rey, Poe and Finn were explicitly designed to be the faces of the brand heading into the future, though obviously it didn't quite work out that way. Luke dying was a marketing decision to that end; and while I think they could have handled it more elegantly than the 'gotcha' moment they went with, I can understand their logic.All this aside, fuck the casino quest and fuck Holdo. Indefensible elements.
>>220926341So why did the prequels not 'kill Star Wars' when they had scatological humour and bad dialogue, whereas this movie gets blamed for it?
>good elementsThere are none lol. It's not really any more insulting or stupid than TFA though, that one just gets a pass because it was the first star wars in forever. I didn't see the third one.
>>220926477The visuals. The music. The opening battle. Some of the themes. Battle of Crait/Luke vs. Kylo. R2D2 on the Falcon scene. There are a few.
>>220926387I want to downvote you redditor
>>220926292I remember this thread. It started with handwringing and pleading to accept TLJ had some positive aspects, and very rapidly devolved into a full on white knight session.I suspect this one will be the same once the supposed virtues of TLJ get some pushback
>>220926546Why are people so averse to the idea of saying it has ANY positive elements, is my point. There is a middle ground between 'it's trash' and 'it's perfect.' But autists can apparently only think in extremes.
>>220926639Because overall it is absolute trash and you trying to push the golden mean fallacy doesn’t change that.Someone saying 2+2=5 doesn’t mean we should compromise and say it means 4.5
Yeah that's sort of how I always felt about it. There's some good scenes/ideas but the movie bridging them together is a hot mess.
>>220926292>nor the series-destroying turdExcept it objectively was this.
>>220926387What's interesting to me is that "bitter old man luke" is from the Lucas pitch, and, imo, is one of the more interesting ideas along with a turncoat stormtrooper (also from Lucas).I don't think he HAD to die.Altbough that's happened with every mentor character in the series he took the role of Yoda in episode 5, who didn't die until episode 6.
>>220926723No, that's TROS. That movie exposed the total lack of planning and was spineless and cowardly.
>>220926403Nta and not even really on the side of normalfags or "online chuds" but in my opinion The Force Awakens did far more damage to Star Wars than The Last Jedi. If TFA & TRoS were better films TLJ would have been fine (assuming they tweaked a few things).
first prequel apologists, now sequel apologists? good grief
>>220926753I didn't even go see it and by the numbers a lot of people did not either. I haven't watched anything Star Wars since. The Last Jedi was the end for me for many millions of other fans.
>>220926778I don't think anyone is ever going to be apologists for episode 7/9 because they are shit beyond a reasonable doubt. But I can definitely see it happening with 8/Solo
>>220926799Solo is the unsung dark horse of the Disney era films. It's actually competently made and enjoyable but everyone harps on the naming scene.
>>220926387>to expect him not to change at all in 30 years after seeing his entire academy slaughtered is a bit daft.Of course not, that'd be silly. The problem was that he was a dipshit that got his entire academy slaughtered in the first place. The entire point of Luke was that he was supposed to be *better* than the prequel trilogy's era of Jedi. Not saying he can't have a flaw or make a mistake, but Jesus fucking Christ, not to that goddamn degree.>Also, he HAD to die, or he would have overshadowed the new characters going forward.Who gives a shit? This was our last time to see Luke (and Han and Leia). Daisy and John and Oscar are all youngins who can be in twenty more movies after Luke's farewell.
>>220926753>No, that's TROS.TROS had no fucking chance after the state TLJ left the trilogy in.
>>220926739No, hermit old man Luke was in the original pitch. Him being a bitter failure was not mentioned.Given he already used the trope twice, and neither of them remotely resembled Jake Skywalker, coupled with the fact the republic and Jedi order weren’t abject failures, the idea his pitch was remotely similar to TLJ is laughable.
>>220926292Its a 4/10 Star Wars movie and a6/10 Movie movie
>>220926919>6/10 Movie movieIt's worse than that. It has a a boring central plot, entire side plot that goes nowhere, and characters that aren't compelling. It's shit. If you're not a low-test Star Wars fan there's nothing there for you at all.
>>220926919God no, it’s fucking boring even without taking the IP into consideration.It’s got three plots going on at once, all of which are slow paced and filled with contrivance and idiocy to progress, and each having insufferable sanctimony layered onto the audience enduring it.The truly funny part is that they cut the one scene which both had a supporting point to the movie’s themes and even gave Rey a flaw, which was Luke tricking her into charging into a native village like a retard to stop an attack that didn’t actually exist.
>>220926820I've liked it since it came out. Would love to see Lord/Miller's version but everyone was acting like Ron Howard wasn't also a good director for some reason. The real issue was how close it came out to episode 8. Should have given it a full year, not 4 months.
>>220926341the prequels were shit but they expanded the star wars universethe sequels are literally JUST a shitty OT rebootthey even recreated the entire Hoth scene but with salt instead of ice
Im on the hate it side... that goes for star wars as a whole
I can see the movie they thought they were making, and parts of it are interesting actually. Better than TFA at the very least.The problem is that Rian Johnson is a big stupid faggot who thinks a movie only needs a single draft.I can see how with a few tweaks they could have made it actually good. Ben gets sent to Luke after his parents' marriage falls apart, and while Luke is a perfectly good Jedi teacher, he doesn't give Ben what he actually wants or needs, which is a father, which causes resentment. No "I sensed my nephew having a bad dream, and tried to kill him" shit, because thats' retarded. If anything it should just have been a moment of lingering doubt on Luke's mind which finally drove them apart.The idea of Ben and Rey collectively realising the Empire and the Rebellion are both run by war profiteers and out of touch Boomers who are insistent on continuing the last generation's war, and then breaking away to form their own thing was a good idea. They should have actually done that. It's frustrating because there's the whiff of a good Star Wars story here, and it's not what we got. We got Yoda burning down a library, for some reason.
a cis lord?
>>220926387The Jedi are knights. Killing bad guys with swords is literally the point.
>>220927933TLJ apologists genuinely believe that Luke tossing his saber in front of the emperor was a sign that pacifism was the true way of the Jedi, not as a symbol of his defiance and willingness to die for his goal.It’s fucking weird how they fixate on that false assumption.
>>220927982when have the Jedi ever been pacifists?
>>220928002are you daft? ask someone who claims they are.
>DEY HERE
>>220928002Never, but that doesn’t stop them making the claim.The closest you’ll get is them twisting Yoda’s words of>a Jedi uses the force for knowledge and defence, never to attackTo mean that they are flat out barred from doing anything remotely offensive.Like I said, it’s fucking weird, because it’s logic walked backwards to justify TLJ, not something they believed before running defence for it.
>>220928167The point of the end of RotJ is that Palpatine is goading Luke to strike down a yielding man in anger. I thought that was obvious.
>>220926500All shit lol
>>220926639because people hate the directorwhich is fair, considering he made the movie as a middle finger to star wars fans and went out of his way to tell the audience "fuck you for caring about the story" by having elements such as the "reveal" that Rey's parents were nobodies (as if that matters to the characters in-universe)if Rian Johnson didn't go out of his way to antagonize his own audience people would be more inclined to point out good elements in the movie
No it is series destroying but really force awakens and JJ fucked up everything.JJ made the Rebellion fail. Han abandon his family and kid. Luke a loner/loser.JJ doesn't solve problems. He created him.Like in Star Trek in the very first movie he just blows up Romulus which doomed New Trek
The Last Jedi comes across as if Rian Johnson was beaten up in school by people who liked Star Wars and the movie was his revenge.
>>220929538Kinda yeah.Just look at Glass Onion where the Mona Lisa got burned by the mc purely as a fuck you. He 100% jerks himself off knowing he destroyed THE modern myth.
>>220929527JJ pointed the ship at an iceberg and jammed the rudder, but it was Jonson who decided to go full speed ahead and scuttle it for good measure.TFA could have been fixed by just ignoring everything implied by it. It might even have been actually subversive to have a sequel that shows the villain’s master stroke did fuck all except piss everyone off.
>>220929932Side note but it is kind of amusing how awful his whodunits are. Filled with retarded tropes, obvious villains without any kind of twists, and a couple times he breaks the cardinal rule that the detective can never have evidence the audience doesn’t.
I don't think its outlandish to suggest that Daisy Ridley is moderately attractive.
In the scene where Rey and Kylo Ren have a force skype call why was Rey not also topless like Kylo Ren was?
>>220926292There's no "good elements" and quit saying this bullshit. It's a movie about a girl-boss who gets distracted from being a girl-boss by some old pussy and a hot Sith guy. In the end, she rescues a handful of incompetent, squabbling morons. The End.>>220926387>to expect him not to change at all in 30 years after seeing his entire academy slaughtered is a bit daft.A good writer would make him more vengeance obsessed, but Rian Johnson is not a good writer.
>>220926403Because the prequels by their very nature couldn't ruin beloved characters from the OT
>>220926639What positive elements does this movie even have? Taking the SW aspects out of it, what is good about this movie as a film in general?
>>220926292women ruined star wars.
>>220930768The cinematography. Some of the themes. The sound design.
>>220930888What specifically is good about them?
