What's the moral of the story?
>>220957114There is no moral, it's a movie about rumors and conspiracies and how they can destroy lives.
>>220957114he based
>>220957114never go against god. he punished salieri twice in his lifetime by making him born alongside the likes of mozart and beethoven and salieri has been relegated to obscurity, forced to watch them reach the corinthian heights of musical excellence>dont seethe and be happy
>>220957114That you can smear people as you like if they have been dead long enough.Great film though.
>>220957799>That you can smear people as you like if they have been dead long enough.>
>>220957114Don't be a loser?
It's very simple: envy will kill you. It's not your fault that you are stupid compared to a "trained monkey" who was trained to do what he did since childhood. So just give up, and take up sudoku.
>>220957114God gives talent for a reason.
>>220957861No, no, no. The moral is that there IS no god.
>>220957114The moral is that seething about others being better at something than you leads nowhere. Its a waste of your time. Focus on what you're doing instead of constantly comparing yourself to others
You can't make a one-way deal with God, (or anyone for that matter), and then get pissy when they don't honour the terms that only existed in your head the whole time.It's amazing how many people make these unspoken 'deals' with other people IRL and are inevitably disappointed.>eg. I give my favourite actress my love, devotion, and uber-fandom, (and with OF thots money), and then get pissy when she calls the cops because I showed up unannounced at her house to ask her to marry me. After all I've done for her! After all those gushing fan letters I wrote expressing my undying devotion and love. The bitch will regret this! I fucking swear, the next time I see that cun--Uh, got carried away there, where was I? Oh right ... so that kind of mental 'deal' with someone else, whether you realise it or not, results in exactly the kind of irrational butthurt psycho rage you see in Salieri. God did nothing wrong. Mozart did nothing wrong. But Salieri felt cheated somehow and embarked on a kino as fuck war with God himself, and Mozart his instrument. At least that's what my psychiatrist has been trying to tell me.It's also about the Deadly Sins sins of Pride, and Envy mostly, but also Wrath, and I also love how Salieri has a thing with sugar to help deal with his vol-cel Lust. It's subtle, but it's hilarious.You could take away a lot of things, like:>"Before you embark on a journey of revenge, dig two graves."Or shit like the William Blake poem, 'A Poison Tree', (1974).I was angry with my friend;I told my wrath, my wrath did end.I was angry with my foe:I told it not, my wrath did grow. And I waterd it in fears,Night & morning with my tears:And I sunned it with smiles,And with soft deceitful wiles. And it grew both day and night.Till it bore an apple bright.And my foe beheld it shine,And he knew that it was mine. And into my garden stole,When the night had veild the pole;In the morning glad I see;My foe outstretched beneath the tree.
>>220957768God's an unfair cunt for making Salieri have to suffer Mozart. He did the right thing.
>>220957114better to die early brilliant than live a long life of incredible mediocrity.
>God gives you talent, opportunity, stability, he gives you what you wanted most, to be a composer >Another composer is better than you and you judge him by his impish behaviour >Instead of humbling yourself and being thankful to hear the voice of God through beauty you become spiteful because you want it for yourself>You do not love God, you love yourself, you do not want to hear God's voice, you want to hear your own
>>220957114Don't let jealousy come in the way of being bros. Mozart and Salieri were borderline best buds if they just could've ignored their egos about their jobs.
He rejected his own gift (the gift of understanding music) and envied Mozart's gift (the gift of creating it)
>>220957768https://youtu.be/5w_nkXrXwtA?t=4098>Capisco! I know my fate. Now for the first time I feel my emptiness as Adam felt his nakedness. Tonight at an inn somewhere in this city stands a giggling child who can put on paper, without actually setting down his billiard cue, casual notes which turn my most considered ones into lifeless scratches. Grazie, Signore! You gave me the desire to serve You - which most men do not have - then saw to it that the service was shameful in the ears of the server. Grazie! You gave me the desire to praise You - which most do not feel - then made me mute. Grazie tante! You put into me perception of the Incomparable - which most men never know! - then ensured that I would know myself forever mediocre. Why? What is my fault? Until this day I have pursued virtue with vigour. I have labored long hours to serve my fellow men. I have worked and worked the talent You allowed me. You know how hard I've worked! - solely that in the end, in the practice of the art which alone makes the world comprehensible to me, I might hear Your Voice! And now I do hear it - and it says only one name: MOZART! Spiteful, sniggering, conceited, infantine Mozart - who has never worked one minute to help another man! - shit-talking Mozart with his botty-smacking wife! - him You have chosen to be Your sole conduct! And my only reward - my sublime privilege is to be the sole man alive in this time who shall clearly recognize your Incarnation! Grazie e grazie ancora! So be it! From this time we are enemies, You and I! I'll not accept it from You. Do You hear? They say that God is not mocked, I tell you Man is not mocked! I am not mocked! They say the spirit bloweth where it listeth: I tell you NO! It must list to virtue, or not blow at all! Dio Ingiusto! You are the Enemy! I name Thee now, Nemico Eterno! And this I swear. To my last breath I shall block You on earth, as far as I am able! What use, after all, is man, if not to teach God His lessons?
bump
>>220957114The moral is even if you are 2nd best at your profession you will be forgotten. Literally if you arent 1st you are last
>>220958020no one here is going to listen to that lol
>>220957114>hey bro, gad here>see this little monke man?>he is better than you at everything>just accept it bro, you are a mid bitchI wish Salieri had fucked Mozarts wife
>>220957114don't be mediocre
>>220958555He's cheeky like that
I absolve you, OP.
It's "have sex, incel"
don't get angry at God because he didn't give you the talent you think you deserve over someone else?
>>220957114The moral of the story is that while talent is both inborn as well as cultivated, art is born of experience, of living life. Salieri was a competent composer. He knew all the same “rules” of composition as Mozart, but he was uninspired, monotonous, as was the life he led. Mozart didn’t play it safe, experienced all that life had to offer, all the highs and lows of it, and his music reflected that experience. The irony of Salieri was that he cursed God for denying him Mozart’s genius, all while taking God’s greatest gift in vain - life itself.
Don't be envious of others or some shit, idk>>220961843But Mozart was already a great talent when he was a little kid and only experienced playing the piano at court because his dad forced him to.
>>220957114That even us mediocrities can succeed in destroying the more talented with sheer jealousy.Either way, I love watching this movie whenever it is on.
>>220957114a man can do all the right things in life and still lose
>>220957114>generous gifts from God>starts thinking too highly of himself>cannot bear to see a sinful creature above himAvoid the sin of Pride, since this movie is clearly about Satan's fall. midwits will only go as far as psychoanalysis or self-help shit because that's all their brain can handle>>220958555>>220960821imagine siding with the devil
>>220957114It's not a fucking fable.It's a character study.It has themes, not some easy to digest "moral".
>>220957114Beethoven > Bach >>>>>> MozartSorry I don’t make the rules
>>220965929Bach? Really? The guy who simply took two minutes to come up with a short motive and then spent days autisticly wrangling it through some basic basic music theory to get a hundred tiny variations on it? Bach is to music what a tech-demo is to video games.
Are there any movies or examples in history in which a hard worker beats a talentfag besides ROTS?
>>220966211Fugues are entertaining and calling Bach out on “basic music theory” when he’s the earliest of the three and was very much a standout talent in his era seems silly.
>>220957114Never outshine the master.
>>220960821This>I wish Salieri had fucked Mozarts wifeEspecially this
>>220957114just be yourself
>>220966337>calling Bach out on “basic music theory”Well, that's what it is. And already was back then. He's such applying well-known rules of harmony and shifts things up and down. I'm not saying he's bad at it. Not at all. He definitely was very talented. But that doesn't mean I have to like how fucking repetitive it gets. Mozart at least had fun with his melodies and orchestrations. Was playful about the whole thing. Loved to tell stories, and made opera for the people.You got a point about Beethoven, he was depinitely the more "serious" professional. Had a way more academic, high-art approach than Mozart. I see the difference beween them a bit like I see Goethe vs. Schiller (except that Beethoven, the younger one between the two composers, aligns with Goethe, the older of the authors, in most regards).
>>220966958>such applying*just
>>220963010>Avoid the sin of Pride, since this movie is clearly about Satan's fallNice. Hard to ignore that parallel and motivation:https://youtu.be/qlMpIfQmkD8?t=451>dear God I love Tilda in that sceneBut you can draw similarities to a lot of things along the same lines, since that's so fundamental to all sin, good and evil, the Cardinal Sin of Pride in particular, the justifications people use, etc. Probably why it's so hard to pin down to something that fundamental.The brother of the Prodigal Son for example, a part of the story that is often brushed over. That motherfucker literally did nothing wrong and worked faithfully on his father's property. You'd think he'd have every right to be pissed and the father would consider him 'better' than the other son. That's a very human attitude and the point is that God sees us ALL as equally worthless sinners who can't buy their way into Heaven with any number of 'deals' or good deeds.Salieri doesn't see it, but he's just as 'bad' as Mozart ever was in God's eyes. Like his 'look but don't touch' lust for women is just as bad as Mozart banging them all according to Matthew 5:27:>"You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall not commit adultery.’ But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart."Salieri's pride, envy, wrath and 'violence' against his fellow man and God, actually earn him a spot in a lower Circle of Hell than anything Mozart does.PROTIP: Lust is a pretty weaksauce sin, and almost the human par for the course in Dante's Inferno. A lot of fags are surprised to learn how low it's actually rated against other sins by that reckoning, (it's just seen as a lack of self-control against the flesh), and the first real level below Limbo with a correspondingly pretty meh form of torture.Pride is much, much worse. So bad it will land you in the lower section of Hell where the punishments get more interesting.
>>220967355I hope you do understand that Dante's Inferno is basically fanfiction of a medieval reinterpretation of older fanfiction about one half of the mythical Greek underworld through a judeo-chirstian lens?
>>220963010God is the devil
>>220968398That's why I said:>by that reckoningBut I can see the ambiguity. I had just got through saying that God doesn't see ANY difference by the Christian standard though. The point is if one DID want a comparison between the two, Salieri only comes off worse than Mozart, (who is relatively innocent in his lustful motivations and wastrel irresponsibility), by a number of different metrics. Salieri knows better, and you could argue that means he fails harder at the higher standard he should be holding himself to than Mozart's own non-standard.The pity of it is, if Salieri actually saw himself as the equally imperfect/worse sinner he is, he might not be so hard on Mozart, and ACTUALLY try to help him both in terms of his behaviour while not begrudging him his talent and being free to openly and honestly praise it.I myself learned this lesson when I was quite young, being the smartest nerd in my elementary school class, but finding myself competing with Johnny Football Hero who was also my academic equal. Didn't take me that long to wise up and stop secretly seeing him as an enemy, but it felt way too long in retrospect - especially since I'd like to say we became friends, but I'd done a little too much damage to the possibility at that point. A pity. The experience taught me to give people a fair shake and see them as they really are though.Just like it's a pity Salieri and Mozart couldn't have been friends, (in the context of the play/movie of course). It would require Salieri to have a sense of humour about himself, and by extension Mozart's careless unintended slights, (the opposite virtue to Pride - Humility).Having said that, the shit in the 'The Divine Comedy' is not completely unrelated to actual religious concepts and doctrine obviously. Like 'pride being the root of all sin'. Though I find the variation 'self-pity is the root of all sin' particularly interesting to think about, and Salieri is one whiny little bitch by that standard.
>>220957114>On the other hand, critics have recognized the merits of some of the additional scenes. Ebert and Robinson agreed that the added scenes better explained Constanze's hatred for Salieri, although Robinson questioned whether that subplot actually required a scene with the character toplessDirector's cut is sexist
>>220957114Peoples' sins have a way of creating their own punishment for the sinner, Salieri is spiritually destroyed by envy as a result of his pridefulness and sense of entitlement thinking he could bargain his way into god's favour. Mozart too is punished for his careless and irresponsible streak with an early decline that is only partly the fault of Salieri's machinations; the music (god, or the course of nature in a more secular allegorical intepretation) ultimately has primacy over all, as in the postscript of Barry Lyndon.
>>220970079>Director's cut is sexistObviously. It has the most Constanze scenes possible. Therefore it's sexiest.
>>220958942Performer is putting on his best Lawrence Olivier impression.
Assuming Salieri didnt succumb to evny, do you think he would have found his footing again after Mozart's premature death?Maybe Mozart was sent by God to inspire him but he was too weak in character to realize it.
>>220957114Most good stories are morally ambiguous.
>>220971547>do you think he would have found his footing again after Mozart's premature death?If he's anything like the historical Salieri, he never lost his footing until decades after Mozart's death.He started suffering from dementia in his 70s, that's in the 1820s, around 30 years after Mozart died, was hospitalised in 1823 and eventually died in 1825.Those 30 years inbetween he kept making music. In fact, he only retired from his employment as Kapellmeister at the royal court in 1824, after his hospitalisation.
